♪ breaking developments in two big stories this morning. the mass murderer who allegedly gunned down nine parishioners in a south carolina church, we are learning new details this morning into what he is telling investigators reportedly, including the amount of ammo he was carrying. also breaking a possible sighting of the two convicted killers who are still on the run. witnesses say they spotted them near the pennsylvania border.

it is always so good to have you with us. thank you for being here. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. a pleasure to be with you. this morning we begin in south carolina with new information on the shooter and his plans. >> with nine people killed, there are some pretty shocking revelations this morning that the death toll certainly could have been even higher. affiliate wb-tv reporting dylann roof saying he had seven clips of ammunition loaded and ready to kill. that is one of many developments we are following this morning. >> also the judge in roof's hearing faces a social media fooi fire storm. is there a situation for a judge to use the "n" word in court. and the bonds of heartbreak. listen. ♪ >> faith and fortitude. vigils unfold in charleston and around the country. this one you're looking at here happened last night. there are so many, though,

planned throughout the weekend. >> we beginning this morning with nick valencia joining us from charleston. nick, tell us more about these new details, what you're learning about dylann roof and why he chose that church, what many people have wondering why travel so far to go to that church to carry this out? >> reporter: well, the church carries so much historic significance as we have been reporting throughout the week. it is the oldest historic ame church in the south and has a long history of civil rights, just a long history of civil rights. many speakers, prominent speakers have taken the podium there. it seems as though he knew the significance of that church. we also are learning new details this morning from our local affiliate in chart, wbtv the area where dylann roof was captured. he told authorities he had seven magazine clips before he entered

that church and, apparently, he had some second thoughts as well as about carrying out his shooting spree. if you remember, spent an hour with these parishioners during the bible study session praying with them and spending some time with them and intimate setting, including the gunman. according to investigators that wbtv spoke to, they treated him very nicely and that's why he had second thoughts about carrying that out. he also was told he killed nine people and something came as a shock to him. yesterday during this bond hearing, his first appearance in the state of south carolina, that happened behind me via video link. some of the family members of the victims were inside and, given the circumstances, they handled this situation with integrity and grace. in shackles and wearing prison stripes, dylann roof walked into his first court appearance with

little emotion. into a north charleston courtroom. on the other side of the screen off camera, relatives of the innocent victims. >> before we go into the bond process, i would like to ask are there any members or is there a representative of any of the family that would be here that wish to make a statement before this court before i post or set the bond? >> reporter: through tears, some of them spoke. >> i forgive you. >> you took something very precious away from me. i will never talk to her ever again. i will never be able to hold her again, but i forgive you, and have mercy on your soul. >> your name, man? >> felicia sanders. >> reporter: one of them, felicia sanders, a survivor of the slaughter who lost her son in the attack, seems to speak for them all. >> we welcomed you wednesday

night in our bible study with open arms. you have killed some of the most beautifulest people that i know. every fiber in my body hurts! and -- and i'll never be the same. >> reporter: roof listens expressionless. staring down, he says nothing. >> your honor, i've met with mr. roof. i think he understands the proceedings. >> reporter: in a bizarre twist, the chief magistrate asked the court to give sympathy to roof's family. >> we must find it in our heart that, at some point in time, not only to help those who are victims, but also to help his family as well. >> reporter: in their first statement since the massacre, roof's family say they are devastated and saddened. words cannot express our shock,

grief, and disbelieve what happened that night. they also say the roof family extends their deepest sympathy and condolences to the families of the victims. ♪ >> reporter: forgiveness also a vocal point at a prayer vigil on pry. quite a remarkable response from a city still healing. according to investigators, it may have been roof's only family that led to his capture. according to local reports here, his parents saw him on tv, that image being broadcast all across the local news and national news outlets here on cnn as well. they called investigators to i.d. him. of course, dylann roof was eventually captured four hours north of here just outside of cha charlotte, north carolina. joining is a former fbi senior profilen and special

agent mary o'tuel and former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. thank you for being with us. tom, we are learning dylann roof had seven magazines on him. then we know he reloaded five times. it sounds as though he certainly had the capacity to kill more people. what do you make of the amount of weaponry that he went in there with? >> well, certainly he went in there with enough to kill every single person in there, kill them over and over again and shoot them many times. you're talking about 70 rounds for 13 people, including himself. so he certainly could have stayed and just made sure that he killed everybody. why he decided to do what he did or shoot the persons he did shoot and not the others, or not kill everybody, we just don't know. >> mary ellen, this is another piece of information we are getting today, he thought about not shooting anyone. and then he apparently changed his mind.

have you seen that in your career as a profiler that there are people who commit violent acts who did second-guess themselves? >> well, certainly offenders can second-guess themselves, but what i think is so unique in this case, it became part of his confession where he tells investigators that he did that and it really is very stunning because what that tells us is that, yes, i spent an hour with these people, he probably prayed with them, he maybe held their hands. yet, he was still cold-blooded enough to say, yeah, okay, but i'm still going to go ahead and kill them. i think that is very profound when it comes to realizing just how cold-blooded and callus his behavior is. >> i think that is what has a lot of people what is so raw about this. because if you sit with somebody for an hour, they are not a statistic to you any more. you know them on some level. let's listen here to somebody who knows him quite well, one of his friends.

let's listen. >> i mean, he was just saying he wanted segregation. he wanted to be white with white and black with black. >> reporter: what did you say when he said that? >> i didn't agree with his opinion at all and we just argued about it. >> the gentleman said it could have been prevented if people could have taken him seriously but dylan nnchts wasn't a serious person. tom, how can you concern if northbound is truly a threat or if they are just speaking? >> i think, normally, you could, unless they go ahead and do something going beyond what they talk about. in this case you have these friends saying they knew had he purchased a gun and, at one point the same kid said they were drinking and he drank a liter of vodka and he took his gun away and he didn't want to be accused of killing so they took back the gun. ovenleds they were can dylann

and didn't take him seriously about his rants about black people and all of the hatred he had and gave him back his gun. i don't know. if the closest people to him don't take it seriously, you don't see others doing it as well. >> mary ellen, real quickly. according to wbtv, investigators say he knew he shot a few people. when they told him he killed nine people, he appeared to be remorseful. >> when you say he appeared remorseful, that doesn't necessarily reflect how he is really feeling. both tom and i have been around offenders for many years that will tell you they feel reforce mull but they really don't feel it and, in this case, i would have to doubt that feeling. >> wondering if it's just an act or -- okay. we appreciate both of you so much in your insight. thank you both. >> you're welcome. investigators are still working and will continue to work for some time to get

answers about what happened in charleston, but that community and communities across the country are looking for answers. they are also looking for some comfort. >> they are finding that in each other in these vigils that are echoing in the united states. ♪ ♪ black and white together we shall open our arms ♪ >> we know you have the power to fix those hearts. ♪ >> we may endure for a night. ♪

>> victory today. joy is mine. ♪ joy is mine ♪ praise god praise god >> there will be more vigils and ceremonies today and tomorrow, as people stand in solidarity with the community there in charleston. we are also hearing from the family of dylann roof for the first time, offering what they call their deepest sympathy and condolences. here is part of the family's written statement. our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those who were killed this week. we have all been touched by the moving words from the victims's

families offering god's forgiveness and love in the face of such horrible suffering. we have more on this coming up. coming up, find out why a man is reprimanded in the past. a possible sighting of the two convicted killers on the run still from a prison in new york. we are learning that another corrections officers has been placed on administrative leave. what could this mean? that is still ahead. thanks to the tools and help at experian.com, i know i have a 798 fico score. [score alert text sound] [score alert text sound] oh. that's the sound of my interest rate going down. according to this score alert, my fico score just went up to 816. 816. 816! 816! fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com, become a member of experian credit tracker, and take charge of your score. is it beating?over your heart.

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dylann roof is sparking a bit of a firestorm over some comments made during that hearing. listen to what he said about sympathy for the killer's family. >> we have victims, nine of them. but we also have victims on the other side. there are victims on this young man's side of the family. nobody would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they have been thrown into. we must find it in our heart that at some point in time, not only to help those that are victims, but to also help his family as well. >> all right. so pair that with what we are learning about the judge's past. documents show that judge james gosnell jr. received a reprimand by the south carolina supreme court and he was reprimanded for making racist marks in 2003

towards and african-american defendant. here is the equity. there are four kinds of people in this world, black people, white people and red necks and n words." of course, he said the "n" word. let's talk about with joey jackson. good morning to you, joey. i wonder when a case like this that is high profile and racially sensitive, is it a sign, as in this case, the chief magistrate, or is it random, or are past statements and reprimands taken into consideration? >> good morning, victor. a judge has a job and that job in this particular case is to inform the defendant of what the charges are and to, otherwise, set bail. that's it. generally, at a sentencing hearing, or some other type of pronouncement, if it's a bench trial and you're giving statements of fact and making

conclusions of law, then it's perfectly appropriate for the judge to opine and to give their thorough of the case and otherwise their reasoning and logic which underlies what they are doing. when-the-a forum like this when the job is to allow a family to give words if they would like to and on could be a therapeutic experience and if your job is to set bail, it's highly unusual to, you know, give your point of view as to the earth and the world. so it's seemingly not in keeping with generally a judicial function. only thing i could potentially think about in terms of trying to justify or wonder why he said it was potentially to avoid retribution or retaliation against the families in any way. other than that, i j you don't know why the judge sort of went off the script and said something like this. >> yeah. and the reporting conversations we have heard thus far is there

haven't been reports of retaliation against the family. you know, we both attended -- obviously, in different roles -- bond hearings in the past. this seemed to me like a bit of a performance, as if there was a script written somewhere in the delivery. how often do we hear, even not just from the judge, as emotional as the statements were and as therapeutic it might have been for the families, to hear these victim impact statements? >> we generally don't, victor. there is a reason for that. you hear victim-impact statements but that is done after the entirety of the trial. in other words, a trial occurs. someone is found guilty, and then when the judge is going to pronounce a sentence, you hear the victims and the impact and the grueling nature of what occurred and what the victims, you know, have meant to their lives. but you generally do not hear this at a bond hearing with the entire purpose of the bond hearing is to set bond. now, we know that based upon the murder charges, there is no ability to set bond. what happens is that there is no

jurisdiction by the court. you stay in. so, therefore, the only thing the judge needed or had to do was set bond, as he is required under the law on the possession of a weapon charge. what he did is a million dollars. but number one, in terms of victim-impact statements you don't hear them in this form. number two, generally, you don't hear a judge opining about who should have sympathy for who, what, why, or when. the judge's role is assess the facts and assess the case as you know them to be at that particular point, and to set bail, period. so i'm not entirely sure, you know, why on earth the judge did what he did here. >> we have a few more questions and hold those for next hour. joey jackson, always a pleasure to have you. >> always a pleasure, victor. possible sighting of the two convicted killers on the run from a new york prison. witnesses say they spotted them near the pennsylvania border. more coverage on the charleston church massacre next.

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breaking news this morning in the search for two killers who escaped a new york prison more than two weeks ago now. we are learning another correction officer has been placed on leave from the clinton correct correctional fantasticcilitate. witnesses first spotted two men apparently last saturday walking near a rail yard some 13 miles from the pennsylvania border. the two men with the same

description were later spotted walking along county route 115, that's in the town of lindley which is heading toward the pennsylvania border. police are asking residents who live in that area, be on the alert and call 911 immediately if you see anyone who looks like these two convicts. cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes is joining us now. tom, first of all, if this happened last saturday, why are we just learning about it now? >> i think the problem is we don't know, you know, the exact time they notified the authorities. i think a lot of people around the country may have seen a suspicious pair of people or even just one man meeting one of the descriptions and just thought, you know, there was so much focus in new york, the dogs were on the consent and 800 officers in the woods in the immediate proximity to the prison that a lot of people said it must not be them, they are still in new york. i think in fairness the marshals in particular were stressing all

along don't just dismiss a sighting because you think all the focus is on new york. they could still be anywhere. many people from the first day saying they could be anywhere in the united states, canada and mexico for sure. i think now the scent has grown cold in new york and i think more people are likely to be more alert and if they see someone suspicious call it in and say they haven't caught these guys yet so maybe they are still out there. >> reporter: talk about the practicality of it. this would be day eight, nine they would have been spotted and 300 miles to the pennsylvania border. >> anything is possible in this case and we don't know if somewhere along the way they found a house to hang out in, which would give them shelter, water, possibly food, clothing and firearms. maybe even a vehicle. and decided they would lay low

and then in a home not being used, just wait there until the heat dies down because, at some point, they are not going to be able to maintain 800 to a thousand officers searching the woods up in upstate new york. they are going to go back into a more normal duties that have not been attended to while they are devoting all of this attention in new york. and when they go back to regular duties, the heat would die down and maybe they would make their way out of the area at that time. we just don't know. >> tom, did they tell you they would still be traveling together or would anything tell you they would split up? >> tells me both. to me, i would lean they are probably still together and helping each other until they get to somewhere where they feel safer to separate. if they are in a survival mode, they are probably together. >> let's get to this development late last night that an unnamed corrections officer was placed on administrative leave as part of the investigation into the escape. does administrative leave translate to we think he might

have assisted in some capacity? >> i think if it was assist inside a capacity, we would looking at something more serious like criminal charges. it could also mean there was negligence in the bed checks or roll call checks they do of doors and perimeter and security and it could be a neglectful act that led to this. we just don't know. >> tom fuentes, always aappreciate your insight. thank you, sir. >> thank you. there are some people who are making contexts between what happened in charleston and shootings in the 1960s during the civil rights era. consider this. there have been nearly two dozen church shootings in the last decade alone. next, we are taking a look at how some congregations are staying safe and ask the question, can a church can be a

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court. but investigators say he has offered startling insights into the shooting rampage that left nine people dead in that church in charleston. according to cnn affiliate wbtv, this confessed shooter told investigators he had seven magazines of ammunition that were loaded and ready to kill. and that he chose his targets because utait's a historic african-american church. >> here is what is so sad about this, in addition to everything that happened, that the attacks at houses of worship are not necessarily new. i mean, the last decade alone, there have been 23 reported shootings at churches in america and 45 people have died because of that. cnn's ed lavandera visited one church in texas that invested in an elaborate security plan after a massacre back in 1999. >> just pulled out a nine millimeter and shot me twice. >> reporter: just like that? >> yeah. >> reporter: the moment is still

crystal clear for jeff blaster. in september of 1999 a gunman walked into this church in texas with several rounds of ammunition and a pipe bomb and killed seven people. blaster was the first person wounded that day. >> he did ask me, is this where the runningus meeting was being held? and he didn't give me a chance to answer. he just said it as he was firing. he just pulled it out and shot twice sideways and hit me once in the stomach and once in the arm. >> reporter: that moment changed this church forever and today the signs of that change are everywhere. outside the memorial to the seven victims, but the church has invested in an elaborate security plan, dozens of security cameras. >> these are all cameras not in place here in 1999. >> correct. >> reporter: so you have really good views of basically everywhere from the parking lot all the way into the interparts of the building, right? >> yeah. >> reporter: doors locked during the day and evacuation plans and

background checks for new members. here is a twist. jeff laster now helps runs the church's security plans. 16 years later, you still come to church here. >> i do. >> reporter: obviously, you feel safe and you are in charge of security. >> i am. i was on staff then and i am now. i'm the administrator. a church is supposed to be a warm, open, inviting place and you want people to feel comfortable coming here. and you want people -- you know, our normal worshipers feel comfortable here. it's home to them. but you also want it to be open and inviting to somebody who doesn't belong here. >> reporter: but here at wedgwood they have learned a painful church. sanctuaries are not safe. >> there is no place in the american society or this world where a terrorist can't come in and start firing away or a crazy man or violence. it knows no borders and it knows no sanctuary. >> reporter: this used to be safe place. you grew up thinking this was a safe place.

>> yeah. and such a shock. in a house of worship, how could they do that? >> reporter: it's happened and this congregation's heart aches for them. >> reporter: our tim miller joins us now. he is the president and founder of the lion heart international services services group, a group that provides security training and training support to nonprofit groups. tim, good to have you this morning. >> great to be here, victor. thanks for having me. >> reporter: we said 23 shootings reported across the country and 45 deaths. how seriously do most religious leaders and not just talking churches but synagogues and mosques hate security? >> victor, it's a challenge to the opening and welcoming, while, at the same time, to have good security. your last piece, wedgwood, i'm very familiar with that. you know, you don't expect someone to come in and to do the kind of violence in a church, unfortunately like we saw in

charleston, and by the way, my prayers are with those in charleston. it's just an unimaginable tragedy. but to answer your question, i think we in america are starting to come face-to-face with the fact that churches are on the target list. we are seeing direct violence at church, and like you talked about earlier, it's time for us as a nation to address it, and especially for church leaders to recognize that we do have a duty to protect our congregation. >> what is realistic here? you can treat it like an airport. take off your shoes, your belt, empty every bag, no large bags, but that may not be realistic. should it be every day on a wednesday night bible study and what should the churches take into consideration when checking security? >> that's a great point. it can't be the same as an airport. we don't churches to look like secret service events. we want it to be welcoming. we want it to be a natural flow

of people coming in and being ministered to across the different religions that we have, but we definitely must look at it as a focused effort. leadership must look at it as something they must do and in days past, they never really have considered security as a priority. so that must be the first thing. then the congregation, you know, wherever i go, i like on to say that church security is a team sport, it's something that all of us need to be involved in. you know, dhs tells us if we see something, say something. i think that's a huge step for churches to take, just to begin to raise the awareness of the need for folks, if they see things, if there are things that come to their attention, that they have a mechanism in place to address those issues and not just ignore them like we have done in the past. >> tim, i want to ask you a difficult question to ask and uncomfortable for attendees of religious ceremonies and i'll ask a clergy later.

but although churches should be places where all are welcomed, if realistic to believe in this climate that they can be still a place where all are welcomed? >> yeah. victor, i think -- i attend a great church in south florida and it's every race, every type of wealth spectrum. we make a focused effort to welcome everyone. i would suggest that that is the atmosphere of most churches in america. i think that is what we saw in charleston, a very different young man came in and he was evil and he had a definite agenda. but they welcomed him. that is the tragedy of this. so i think the good news is a focus security effort allows you to maintain that welcoming atmosphere while, at the same time, you can have clear security measures across the spectrum to deal with whatever threats there are. >> tim miller, thank you so much for helping us understand how in

this environment, in this climate, places of worship have to take security very seriously. good to have you this morning. >> thank you, victor. have a good day. >> you too. the fbi have arrested multiple people this week who, it says, were gathering material for isis-inspired attacks in the united states. so is isis changed how it's operating here? that is one of the questions. we will be right back with that and more. ♪ >> serena williams isn't the only one halfway to the calendar slam this year. american beth ann sams won the atitle with her partner. the pair gelled open. it was the first tournament they had ever played together. >> i think one of the biggest things for doubles is communication and me and lucy are really good friends, we are having fun. i think we are taking each match as it comes. >> reporter: the 30-year-old has

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♪ new this morning, an american citizen in ohio is in jail after the fbi says he pledged to support to isis. amir al gasi was arrested outside of cleveland when he tried to purchase an ak-47 from an undercover agent reportedly. he pledged to report to isis and social media and tried to make propaganda to isis. this is the third american this week attempt to go aid the terror organization. weeks ago, a man was arrested in staten island in new york and he tried to stab an fbi officer who was searching his home. let's get straight to retired major general james

spiderer marks. thank you for being with us. >> sure. >> we have four arrests just since last saturday, all allegedly kind of on the edge of criminal acts. do you think this means that isis has evolved from, you know, recruit to go actual action in the u.s.? >> no. it really is -- this is a continuum not unusual for us to see at all. the key thing in my mind is each one of these instances, these individuals self-declared through social media. what does that tell you? the recrewment takes place online. it's impersonal. yet within this recruitment, it suddenly gets very deep and very personal as they progress through it and now they are on board. there also has to be an inclination for that recruitment. so they are phishing for -- the individuals are phishing where they might be and they find some

affiliation and now deep into it and declare where their intentions might be. thank goodness we have a robust forensics and law enforcement agencies can jump on top of this and get them before these events occur. so it's not unusual to see recruitment, advancement through different stages. all of this is online and then they move to the point where they might, in fact, execute one of these operations. >> so they get to the point where they may execute. before that, are they also getting to the point where not only are they communicating online but do you think people are physically sitting down and meeting and plotting? >> you'd like to figure that out, obviously. but i got to tell you none of that has to take place. every one of the steps of both the recruitment process and moving further into the possible execution of an operation can be learned, and you can do the training and all of the education all online, so you

don't have to make yourself that much more vulnerable in terms of establishing a physical network. this could be done virtually. >> salaa seems to be the center of this pressure cooker bomb plot we are talking about. do you think people now have assumed leadership roles for isis in the u.s.? >> oh, sure. that is an absolute important ingredient in all of that. that is a touch point for these young men mostly, these young men as they go about the process of self-radicalizing. >> do they claim themselves to be the leader or do they just come about it based on what they do online? >> by affirmation. it's mostly because they have established themselves. they have got to have some type of street credit in order for them to assume this role. >> general, thank you so much. >> thanks. sure. the lake fire is raging out of control this morning.

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you just heard us mention the lake fire. there are pictures for you. this is in san bernardino, california. apparently, it is moving quickly and threatening hundreds of buildings this morning. it started wednesday and

firefighters have been able to contain only about 10% of it so far. it's burned 13,000 acres. highways have been shut down. and we understand 500 structures at least in danger of being torched. >> meteorologist ivan cabrera has been tracking the lake fire. ivan, i woned if tder if the wes going to cooperate. >> the weather is not going to help. when you talk about wildfires in california you have to talk about the drought. take you to california and show you what we are talking about here. this is the lake fire. 13,000 acres burning east of san bernardino. this started on wednesday and i think it's going to continue the next feud. 10% is, well, some containment but not where we need to be. in fact, we are talking the next few days, not being good. 500 structures are threatened. so far, in a testament to the firefighters there, none of the structures we understand have been burned yet. there is the exceptonal drought

ongoing in california. it means the fires that do start have infinite amount of fuel and anything getting going is going to be a problem. the temperatures are not going to help. mostly at the surface here 105 to 110, i think where the fire is being fought, we are talking about temperatures in the upper 80s. another thing we look at is humidity. that is not going to help either by the time we get into the afternoon, relative humidity values are going to crash into the low single digits. then the wind is going to get a little bit gusty later on today, anywhere from 20 to 25 miles an hour and that is going to be an issue well. yes, conditions not helpful for firefighting efforts the next feud. hot temperatures and low relative humidity and, at times, gusty winds. we will keep you posted. >> all righty. thank you so much, ivan. appreciate it. so what is next in the case of this church shooter dylann roof? ahead of 7:00, we will talk about the potential strategies for the defense and the prospect that the prosecution will ask for the death penalty. also in case you haven't heard this morning, a possible

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♪ new details this morning about the charleston church shooter. his actions inside the church before that massacre and what dylann roof have been telling investigators now. >> and listen to this. >> every fiber in my body hurts. >> families are dealing with this pain after the shooting and some of them have already forgiven the shooter before their loved ones have even been buried. breaking this morning also. a possible sighting of these two escaped new york convicts. where they could be headed now. always so grateful for your company. thanks for being with us. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. always a pleasure. we start in south carolina with new information on the shooter and a lot of questions about how this could have actually