lady did not reach out and catch the cat to get a hold of it. once they touched down the answer is obvious, because they did not want the cat to do what the cat did when the pilot reached for her, but high above earth, stowaway must have thought that she had crossed into -- >> the twilight zone. >> jeanne moos cnn, new york. >> what a lucky and smart kitty. anderson starts now. good evening and thank you for watching tonight, we have breaking news tonight. physical evidence that the two killers that broke out of a state prison three weeks ago may not have gotten far. david sweat and richard matt may be in the adirondacks in a cabin, and one of the cabin owner s owners says he may have seen them the before they started to flee. >> when he approached the camp

he saw one person running away or the back of one of them running, so he approached the camp with caution, and a jug of water on the table, and open jar of peanut water. >> and dna samples, fwhou evidence that they are getting any help on the outside, but on the other hand, we are learning new details of the help they received from the breakout and now gary tuchman on the hunt. >> reporter: the people who live in the tiny hamlet of owls head new york have never seen anything like this. >> we have evidence that the suspect mace have spent time in a cabin in this area. we have law enforcement officers from around the state the and around the nation here today searching for more evidence. >> reporter: the break-in suggests that the men need provisions provisions, and they are desperate. that is what a source tells cnn. there are lots of police here but they cannot patrol the every trail, and they have a trail where they believe the men are.

the adirondacks are beautiful, but this is the topography where the men could be and it is heavily wood and there sis a serious sense of alert, because any time they go into the woods, they could encounter the men. everyone who is driving into the area gets checked including residents and newsmen. >> gary tuckman, cnn. do you want me to open up the trunk trunk? >> and this is is the cabin that the man takes care of. and to been host when you went into the cabin, was there a little bit of concern of what you might find inside? >> no. [ laughter ] >> reporter: no? >> no not at all. >> reporter: you were armed? >> yes, i was armed. >> reporter: the cabin with the

dna is closer to the woods, but the higher you go the more police and more weapons you see. the police are well aware that it could end violently, but it is always a peaceful small town. >> gary how far is this prison from where the police are e searching in owls head? >> well, anderson the drive is about 50 miles and it is windy a , and the walk is about 20 to 30 mile, and although the adirondacks are mountainous it is not mount everest, and it is not a flat path, but it is a relatively easy walk and because the guys have had 16 days to do it they have not gone far. and also will, anderson, this town that has 500 people and the surrounding county and franklin county, we are told by new york state police there are more than 1,000 police officers from different agencies right now in this county looking for these two men. >> than you, gary for the reporting. and now more on how the men may have gotten the tools that they have needed to cut their way out.

deborah feyerick has more on that. and we are learning that they may have smuggled in tools from froze frozen meat? >> yes joyce mitchell gave a colleague are from the prison a corrections officer a piece of frozen hamburger meat, and the men have hot plates in the cells that they can use to make food. and apparently the piece of meat did not go through the metal detectors, and it is in that meat that they believe some contraband is insooidide, and that is what they are looking at now. >> wow. would the person she gave it to have known? >> well, that is excellent question, because the correctional officer on paid leave appears he did not know and the lawyer says if he helped in the escape, it is completely unwittingly, and he knew the two inmates and worked on the honor block, and it is like being in a place of work, and you have conversations with people, and get to talk to them, and know

them, and it seems that the rick matt is the mastermind and he may have felt confident that it is a piece of frozen hamburger meat. meat. >> and we will talk to that prison guard coming up on the program, and in terms of what the inmates have access to right now, it is clear that they are monitoring the the news broadcasts on the radio or communications? >> well, it is a very good question. and the area where the cabin is it is very dense and you have bad cell service according to the people that i have spoken to, and very bad cell service, and some of the cabins have radio scanners and so it is a possibility that they are monitoring the communications, and you have a thousand officers and something could come over the radio scanner, and not clear if it is access to television or something like that, the but they are looking at that closely, a ndnd so they have to approach, and they are trying to really contain the two individuals in this perimeter that is still large and still porous, and that is what they are focused on now. >> and we know peanut butter and water now, and do we know what

is missing from the cabin? >> well, that is what the investigators are looking, and they the did look for the break with this the dna, and there are knives and this is apparently a hunting cabin to skin animals and other weapons inside, and that is is a premise that the investigators are working on that the men have the tools which included and may have included like a jab saw or a bolt cut or something like this but now maybe additional things that they could use. >> sleeping bags or a change of clothes. >> and that is right, because they were hiding out there. >> and deborah feyerick thank you. and onow focusing the efforts of the search west of this area west of the cabin and we want to get a feel of the ground, and joining us is keisha clubke who is joining us from owl ss head, and your sources are telling us about the reremoteness of the

cabin s cabins and how accessible are they? are they equipped with electricity and running water? >> from what i am hearing these cabin, and this one hunting cabin in particular with sources familiar with this particular cabin have said it is very spartin and it has an outhouse and doesn't sound like running water, and makeshift shower, and so it is not like they are living in a hotel up there in the hills. as far as access to it there are roads, but it is very deep in the woods. it sounds like they may have hiked to it. there are hiking trails out of the village of dannemora. >> and have you seen a sense of urgency of the police trying to catch these two, and it seems they that are trying to at least be closing in or creating a perm

perimeter? >> it is difficult to tell, and i have been up here for several weeks now following this, and now each time they have a new lead it feels like this could be it. then all of the sudden we find out that they are moving out of the eararea, and perhaps this lead was not the lead. with this one, it does feel like it is really making sense of how they got there, and the fact that there is forensic evidence makes it feel a lot more definitive than any of the other leads, so there is a little bit more of the sense of urgency, and there is also about 1,000 law enforcement officers involved which is more than we have seen before where it was 600 or 800, so it seems that they are bumping up the forces here. >> key sharks thank you for the reporting, thank you. quick reminder to set your dvr and you can watch "360" any time you want. we are on an extra two hours today, because of a lot happening today. and next the spotlight on the corrections officer named gene palmer and he is is going to be

join joined with his attorney, and a panel of law enforcement experts. and also in charleston, a big move to take down the symbol that the killer drew inspiration from and now tonight, a symbol of the confederate flag that is flying tonight, but who knows how long it will be flying after tonight. that is the question. you know the importance of heart health. you watch your diet, excercise... and may take an omega-3 supplement, such as fish oil. but when it comes to omega-3s, it's the epa and dha that really matter for heart health. not all omega-3 supplements are the same. introducing bayer pro ultra omega-3 from the heart health experts at bayer.

with two times the concentration of epa and dha as the leading omega-3 supplement. plus, it's the only brand with progel technology proven to reduce fish burps. new bayer pro ultra omega-3. i am rich. on the grounds of my estate, i hob nob with the glitterati and play equestrian sports. out on the veranda, we enjoy finger sandwiches and other assorted dainties. i wear nothing less than the finest designer footwear. wherever i go, the paparazzi capture my every move. yes, i am rich. that's why i drink the champagne of beers.

you know, when i started my business, a lot of people didn't believe in me. but things took off when i got a domain and built my website all at godaddy. now i can tell the doubters to stick it. hey, honey. stick it! stick it! stick it! nana? hi... stick it! can you give your mommy a message for me? stick it! get a domain website and email starting at $1/month all at godaddy. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

tonight's breaking news in upstate new york the search teams are scrambling to contain david sweat and richard matt and in a breaking mote in the case gary tuchman say ss that about 1,000 personnel is focusing on an area west of the correctional facility facility, and dna evidence has linked the fugitives to a cabin a that has been broken into. and joining me now is the regional fugitive task force regional director and also john cuff the regional fugitive divisional communications of the marshall services and what do you see of the leads? >> well, this is a real game-changer anderson and this is a significant break for law enforcement enforcement. >> the fact that the forensic evidence was found? >> yes. >> and the recent developments and the coupled with the sighting of the person, and not 100% that it is one of the individuals, but the likelihood

or the probability of that will bear out, but even, one thing to keep in mind and even with the dna found in that cabin, and you don't really know how fresh it is or how long they have been in there there. but through the interviewing of the owner of the cabin and so on, you can determine if there is any weapons in there, and if there is maybe cabinets full of food or goodie bag to secrete themselves in the woods, and especially dna from both of the individuals put ss them together, and you can rule out other alternate plans for to getaway car to be considered. >> and lenny, does this tell you that there was not a plan b that joyce mitchell may have been the only plan they had, and the fact that they are still relatively close to prison if this is in fact them? >>le with i mean i have certainly not ruled anything out, anderson, because they rare

not in custody yet, but it is leaning in that direction, and as john said this is a definite game-change game-changer, and these guys, once again, if they had the plans disrupted, they are having to switch gears, and you know anyone's guess where they are at now. there is other cabins in the area, that are still not unlocked, and they are still, you know waiting for summer to show up in the adirondacks, and it is anyone's guess at this point. >> and john you mentioned a while ago, and a couple of days can ago that they would be together as long as there was a sort of the codependent as long as there is a are reason for them to be together and it seems like as if they were in this cabin as long as there is dna, they were. >> and yes, like lenny said, you can't rule out any other possibility, anderson but you have to deal with what you v and right now the facts speak for themselves and hopefully, this is a good sight, and by the law enforcement spreading the net out there, and the web and the noose is starting to tighten on

whoever the person was or whoever was running there, and with that individual and law enforcement, and keep in mind that the caller who called, and it is so important that these calls continue to come in from the people in the mountains or elsewhere, because it is transparency behind the scenes, you have a future investigation go going on, and so law enforcement is not going to put all of the eggs in this one basket. >> and lenny even if they were able to take some supplies from the cabin, and we don't know what they were table to take, but they are not trained or prepared to run in this terrain, because it is as gary said, it it is not mt. everest, but it is mountainous terrain and obviously very dif the cult terrain to move in, and that is something that search teams can continue to try to use in their advantage? >> oh, yes absolutely. it is heavy terrain, and they r are not survivalists, and they don't have skillsets with respect to the intelligence that the lead investigators got, and

so we don't know how long they have been surviving or how long they have been bedding down in this particular cabin and those are all questions that law enforce enforcement has answers to, and however, they are still the running. i am hoping that the perimeter is set up, and tightened up a little bit, and they have certainly enough s aassets on the ground with atvs and blood hounds and s.w.a.t. teams and negotiation teams, and again, i tip my hat to the men and women up there for 17 days working around the clock. these guys are the ultimate absolutely they are. >> and not an easey search given the terrain, and guys, we appreciate both of you being with us and the investigation has been move aging ahead, and officer gene palmer has been put on administrative leave working at the prizson for 28 year, and

no channels have been filed gains him certainly not yet, and the district attorney say ss that palmer could face accusations of facilitateing the prison escapees with contraband and thank you for coming on with us and how well did your client know david sweat and richard matt and what is the konconnection? >> well, anderson, he worked in the honor block in clinton correctional facileity, and he has been at the facility for 27 years, and he had daily contact with these two individuals, and so it is fair to say that he knew them quite well. >> and i understand that they sometimes exchanged information? >> that is fair to say. it is a very dangerous facility, and prison guard ss oftentimes rely on information from the inmates to keep the facility secure such as if there is going to be a fight or any kind of stabbing in the prison, and it is good to have a head's up to keep the facility secure and protect their brothers and

sister s sisters and the civilian employees. >> i understand that your client received a painting from richard matt and can you confirm that and what was it a painting of and why was it given? >> i don't want to confirm nor the deny that at this time anderson and i'm sorry, anderson, but it is a pending investigation, and my client is fully cocan operative and submit submitted to 14 hours of questioning saturday and he was present for that t, and he is forth coming, and he is a proud individual who is looking forward to getting back to work. >> and this is an obvious question but was your client in any way connected with their escape? >> i will go on record to say 100% no. he had no knowledge that the two individuals were trying to break out of the correctional facility. >> is your client, and there is a report that deborah feyerick had that joyce mitchell may have hidden some sort of a tool in frozen hamburger meat given to the guard, and it is your client

that that meat was given to? >> i won't comment on that at this time, anderson and i am sorry, but i would not want to jeopardize this investigation. >> you can konconfirm that your client has not been charged with a crime, and this is still a possibility though? >> it is up to the district attorney, and i have been told that they have had information that they wanted to speak to mr. palmer for, well, a couple of days after the breakout itself and they didn't question him until saturday. i would assume that is because he had information that is going to be helpful in the investigation, but we walked out of there on saturday and no charges were filed and i have not been identified that there were no plans to charge my client. does he recall anything else about him that you can say? what does he remember about them that he liked? >> well shgs, these two, they were

psychopath s psychopaths and master manipulators and took advantage of people and looking back now, he is able to see that. >> and does your client again, and i don't know if you can say this or not, but does your client believe -- well shgs, what was his relationship or acquaintance with joyce mitchell your client can, and does he believe that he was in any way used by joyce mitchell? >> he believes that maybe it is a possibility, but again, he doesn't know what her role was in the escape, and obviously, allegations a that s as that she was involved with one or both of the inmates, and he did work on the honor block and her assignment was on the honor block, and so he does know joyce mitchell fairly well. >> did he have any comments to the authorities about any relation relationships that joyce mitchell may have had with either of the two prisoners? >> i don't want to comment at this time, and anderson s i am

sorry to keep saying that but i don't want to jeopardize my client or the investigation. >> thank you, mr. brockway, for coming on the night. and just ahead, the shooter of charleston and the manifest manifester, and drew tracks down the writer of the manifesto, and what has to be said about the people who were gunned down in bible study. and also, pushed to move the confederate flag from the steps of the south carolina steps of the statehouse. change to tempur-pedic. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction

so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. insurance coverage has expanded nationally and you may now be covered. contact your health plan for the latest information. the beast was as long as the boat. for seven hours, we did battle. until i said... you will not beat... meeeeee!!! greg.

what should i do with your fish? gary. just put it in the cooler. if you're a fisherman, you tell tales. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. put the fish in the cooler! what do you think? when i first sit in the seat it makes me think of a bmw. i feel like i'm in a lexus. you would think that this was a brand new audi. it's like a luxury car. feels kind of like an infinity. very similar to a range rover. this is pretty high tech. yeah it is. it reminds me of a mercedes. ♪ this is chevy? laughing i have a new appreciation for chevy. they thought about me. i could totally rock this. this thing feels pretty boss. it looks kind of dope. that's pretty cool. this is the jam. pretty bomb dude. maybe i will go chevy. i'm definitely in. ♪ ♪ the goodness that goes into making a power kale chicken caesar salad is rivaled only, by the goodness felt while eating one. panera. food as it should be.

my name is jeff richardson the vice president of operations here at c.k. mondavi. to make this fine wine it takes a lot of energy. pg&e is the energy expert. we reached out to pg&e to become more efficient. my job is basically to help them achieve their goals around sustainability and really to keep their overhead low. solar and energy efficiency are all core values of pg&e. they've given us the tools that we need to become more efficient and bottom line save more money. together, we're building a better california.

a lot of developments in the charleston, south carolina but before we get to them, i want to e show you this. ♪ an emotional service at emanuel ame only four days after congregants were murdered there inside of that church. an amazing display of grace from that church and no doubt will

continue as their members are laid to are rest. we have learned that president obama will be giving the eulogy for pastor clementa pinckney. there is a push to remove the confederate flag from the south carolina state thehouse grounds today. and also we will look at what the killer said about why he wanted to start a race war. we learn more from martin savidge. what have you learned about this? >> well, it is interesting, an anderson, because if you listen to the people who knew him growing up he was not a fire brand of racism and he was not raised by a family who had racial hatred and the moment that changed him was the trayvon martin and george zimmerman

case. he was the same age as trayvon martin and he did research online and drawn to a white supremacist site online and it changed him forever and it was an epiphany of hate. >> and it changed the him what ways? >> well, in february this year, he starts his own white supremacy website, and in april, he turns 21 and obtain thes a a.45 caliber gun, and then he begins a weird journey of both history and hate, and in it, he visits some of the most notorious slave sites around the south, and then at the same time the he visits some of the most revered sites of the confederacy and his friends say he starts to drin drink a lot, and taking pills, and acting violently, and the twisted tour ends up last wednesday d on the side door of

this church, and the rest is tragic history. >> we know that he picked that church according to law enforce enforcement, because he mentioned to the them that he had done the research and he knew it was important church not only to the african-american history, but to the country. what do you know about president obama's visit later in the week? >> we understand that the president is coming and of course the president knew the reverend of the church here, reverend pinckney, and so it is a personal visit, and we know that the first lady is coming as well, and it is going to be held in a nearby ar reeena to handle the capacity of the crowd coming, and many believe here it is the right thing to do, and it is going to go a long way to the help the community to the heal and continue the unity that many feel. >> martin i appreciate the reporting, and as he mentioned on the online manifesto he credit the council of citizens of the way he has been changing the world, and drew dug d into

the ccc. >> reporter: they believe that the whites are under attack, and he wants the whites to wake up before the race is destroyed. on the website it lists black on white crimes that go unreported and points of view that are similar to the manifesto or reasoning of the website owned by the charles tonton shooter, and justifying attack on black people preying on a church. this is one of the movements' rallies posted on the internet, and the man speaking, kyle rogers according to the southern poverty law center is the leader. >> there is a reason that they use for every cause on the right wing and you saw it with the protest, and it is the one message, and every single person who yells something negative yelled the same thing, and it is the argument of the 3-year-old, and you're a racist. >> reporter: rodgers runs a flag-selling website which includes the rebel flags and

rhodesian flags, and he urges followers to no back ging down to what he calls the left-wing media. >> you have to stand up to them. don't go on the defensive. always be on the offensive when you talk to the other side. >> reporter: but today, at his home outside of charleston he was anything but a fire brand racist racist he hid behind the door. kyle? drew fifgriffin for cnn. >> can you call for an interview. >> reporter: can you tell us about the flags that you sell? he handed us a piece of paper to contact this the person who will tell us about the shooter and nothing about the ccc website. >> so this is facts that are hard to find, because they are

essentially ta the bu in the united states today, so we have no apology for publishing the facts. >> reporter: the fact is that the white supremists live mostly on the internet, and they blog and share their views that whites are being overtaken by blacks, hispanics and jews and they all deliberately stop short inciting any call ss for violence. >> and like any other human being i don't like the idea of anybody marching an shooting people. >> reporter: bob whitaker has been in the white supremist movement for decades and runs a website warning of a white genocide and he says that the shooter's actions are intol intolerable, but he says, so are the actions of other shoot ingsings where blacks kill whites. >> there are going to be a large number of murders this week, i can tell you that. >> reporter: but few murder ss where the shoot wants to start a race war which is what he told the police and very few shootings like that and very few shootings where where a

young white kid from a very white neighborhood goes down to charleston south carolina, and goes into a very black church and kills nine people. >> yeah. so what am i supposed the do about it? >> drew joins me now. how big is this so-called movement? >> well they would argue with what i am about to tell you, but it is tiny. it formed out of an old group out of 1960s that the tried to fight segregation in schools, and it grew out of a conference that had about 75 people and the annual conference is about a quarter of the size of the people in front of the sidewalk in front of the sidewalk here, anderson. >> do we know if the shooter went to the web sites or any communication between nem? >> we don't know of any communication, but i am sure that the fbi and other author i are -- authorities are looking

in into that. but he mentions other sites in the manifesto that is attributed to him but we don't know of any communication between the groups, and they deny they knew this kid. >> thank you, drew griffin. walmart says they will no longer sell the confederate merchandise they sell and the south carolina governor says it is time to remove the confederate flag from the capitol ground and until now, a number of big named presidential hopefuls would not weigh in on what she should do but until now, they were not shy about weighing in on other things. we are "keeping them onhonest" just ahead. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ hey america, still not sure whether to stay or go to your people? ♪ well this summer, stay with choice hotels twice and get a $50 gift card you can use for just about anything. go you always have a choice.

book now at choicehotels.com

here's to the explorers. those diagnosed with cancer who explored their treatment options by getting a comprehensive second opinion at cancer treatment centers of america. call today or go online to schedule your

second opinion here. learn more at cancercenter.com

breaking news tonight. the world's biggest retailer just made a big announcement. walmart is saying that they are re removing all confederate merchandise are from the stores. that is not the only big move in the wake of the tragedy. with the confederate flag still flying high above the statehouse governor nikki haley along with other senators made

an announcement that it is time to the remove the flag from the statehouse. >> it is time to remove the flag from the steps of the statehouse. >> and she read a statement that it is time it is time to move it from the statehouse grounds to an appropriate place. and and reince priebus quickly applauded her and so did lindsey graham. and so did jeb bush. and mitt romney tweeted immediately that it is time to take down the confederate flag and honor the charleston victims. he is not running, but george pataki was out front on this,

and he is a social moderate who is meant to have little social appeal, and this is important, because some who are moderates who are supporting nikki haley are slow to support her. and the political protege and his 2015 rival rick santorum said that it does not rise to the national level. >> i don't think that the federal kand can dates should make decisions on everything. >> and mike huckabee questioned opining on it at all. >> it doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with running for president, and my position is that it most certainly does not. >> and being bait ded is what he

said. >> and keeping them honest candidates in both parties answer questions on issues both personal local can,, state, and federal, and from boxers to briefs. >> one of the dangers is birth control. >> and that he is going to talk about, but not the flag. >> and governor huckabee has plenty to talk about that. >> and if if governor wants to insult the women of america by making them believe they are helpless without uncle shoeugar to provide them a prescription for birth control because they cannot control their labido without the el help of the federal government, then so be it. >> and governor huckabee has always talked about same-sex marriage and he is against it and marijuana legislation, and he is against that too and there is nothing wrong with that

positions, but the fact is that he made positions about it and he did not punt, so why did the candidates make positions on so many things dodge the question today, and say it is none of the presidential candidate's business when almost everything else is considered a presidential candidate's biz business and ours, and so what happened with senator john mccain in his first run said that it is a symbol of hatred and then he said it is a symbol of heritage, and then he lost the primary. >> i feared if i answered honestly i would have lost the primary, and i broke my promise to always tell the truth. >> and then going deeper down n in politics we have more to say about it.

john king has been looking into this and he is joining us now, and the fact that some politicians and candidates are saying clearly that the flag should come down, and others are punting saying it is not their place to weigh n andin and what is the calculations here? >> well, anderson, you have seen nit past campaign and you just mentioned it with president bush and john mccain, and some politicians are willing to step out, and governor bush did say do the right thing and he made note of what he did in florida and got out early, and governor romney who is not on the ballot got out early, aed on thers are punting, and so you have a case study of others who are willing to take a rix and lead and others who are more calculated and then others including governor nikki haley did a big thing and changed the politics in a big way, and for other conservatives, it is the safe position to the say it is a state issue and leave it up to the people of south carolina but as you correctly pointed

out, hey, it is a cop-out for anybody running for president, and b, especially a cop-out if you are a values' kandcandidate and saying, i don't think that this couple can get married, because they gay, and i don't think that you can get an abortion because you are wrong and if you want to be a values' candidate, then this is values issue, and race is part of the debate and so if you want to be the president of the united states, how can you dodge that question. >> and some of the republicans say it is not an issue appropriate for national discussion and these are to a same people who want to be bragging about being a part of the party of abraham lincoln, and certainly he felt that the confederacy was a big deal. >> and maybe, you could understand a senator from montana say, i don't know, because i don't understand the issue, and especially from the northern state, you could understand, but the presidency is a unique office and as president obama noted he has had to 11 or 12 times had to come

into the briefing room after mass shootings, and so you are asking to have the bully pulpit and the great benefits of that and when tragedy hits it whether it is george bush after 9/11 and george bush after shootings as well and president obama, and you have to lead and console the nation, and when you do that you have to make a values judgment and it is part of the job. >> and if you put it off, people get distract and move on and it is quite possible that the flag will stay where it, or is it a tipping point? >> i believe it is a tipping point, and i have put in call ss today, and governor haley did it because she believes it is the right thing to do, and b, it is a tough fight, because she needs 2/3 vote to take the flag down and also part of the debate is what do you do with the monument, because the flag flies over a monument to the confederate war dead in south carolina and does it stay there? it is part of the debate going

forward and the governor wants to move as quickly as possible, and some say they could start it in the legislature tomorrow, and if not, when they come back in july to come back to do some bugts issue ss. she needs 2/3 vote in the legislature, but looking at the pictures behind her today she has lined up the conservative political interest ss, and not just the people in the area, but people who are in legislature who were behind senator pinckney and other chamber of commerce business interests who say it is the best for the state, and she believes that she has the momentum to the back, and she knows if it is months from now, and the tension dissipates she know ss to put the petal to the metal and move on it now. >> and now, amy church and the night of the massacre, and what reverend pinckney's wife says about the night of the gun fire and what she says about how she broke the news to the children

about her their father and how he did not survive. their father and how he did not survive. their father and how he did not survive. their father and how he did not survive. their father and how he did not survive. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too.

♪ while you're watching this i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us.npicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security. we're ready. are you? so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep them all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberry apple scones smell about done. ahh, you're good. i like to bake. with at&t get up to $400 dollars in total savings on tools to manage your business.

i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

it's so shiny. i know, mommy, but it's time to let the new kitchen get some sleep. if you want beautiful results, you know where to go - angie's list. now everyone can get highly rated service even without a membership. you can shop special offers or just tell us what you need and we'll help you find a local company to take care of it. angie's list is there for all your projects, big and small. pretty. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. well, there are more sickening details on the shooting of the husband of amy

pinckney. she hid under the desk and then learned that her husband had died in the attack the. and sylvia johnson is a cousin and i spoke to her. >> reporter: sylvia i know that the daughter was in the building at the time of the attack and called police a a kindergarten you take us through the story, because i noeknow ta that you talked to her. >> jennifer said that she heard some gunshots and she paused for a minute, and then she started to hear even more and she thought wow, something is going on. >> she was not at the bible study, but in a separate room. >> no she was in a separate room. she was in the pastor's office. >> so she heard the shots, and

then what? >> she heard the shots and then she, she grabbed the baby and she had a 6-year-old daughter, and she went under the desk and called 911. >> i understand that 911 operator told her to stay on the line with her. >> yes. stay on the line until we get there, and she helped to, you know ease her fears know, you will be okay, and everything is fine, and we are on our way. they arrive and took her out of the office. so she didn't go to the scene where the actual murders okay occurred. >> i understand that it was his wife had to deliver the news to their the daughters that their dad had been killed and you tried to el help her with that

conversation. >> yes. yes. jennifer i mean very strong. she did an excellent job if i might say so with informing them that something terrible has happened and your daddy is no longer with us. and the oldest daughter start ded to tearing up a little bit, and she looked both of them in the eye and said that it is going to be okay, and we are going be fine and we are going to be strong for others. >> and there is a conversation that no mother thould have to have with their child. and some of the other survivors we know that polly shepherd's life was spared by the gunman, because there were reports that he tried to shoot himself, but he was out of bullets, and i understand that you spoke to polly, but she has a different remembrance. >> he did say to ms. shepherd

that he asked her, did i shoot you, and she said no and he said good, because i need someone who could survive to tell the story, because i am going to kill myself. >> so he told her that he was going to kill himself, but she did not see any attempt or know that he actually did? >> right right. >> and felicia, and you mentioned that felicia sander her son, tywanza was playing

dead in her own son's blood. >> yes. i spoke to her, and she was doing as well as expected and she is surrounded by family and friends and everyone loving on her, and rendering support. she is coming along pretty good. >> i spoke to a number of family members last week and obviously in the bond hearing some talk ded to forgiveness and said of the shooter that they forgave him, and this is an incredible thing, and i spoke to another pamfamily member who said it is too early yet, and i mean, it is too early to think about it for a family member, and where are you? >> well anderson i noeknow that i

must forgive, anderson, but right now, no. forgiving is a process, and i have not gotten there yet. it is a process, and i have not gotten there yet. >> sylvia thank you so much and you have incredible strength. and tonight we have breaking news on the massive manhunt for those escaped inmates david sweat and richard matt and their dna has been found in a cabin not far from the prison they escaped from. rest rate going down. according to this score alert, my fico score just went up to 816. 816. 816! 816! fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com become a member of experian credit tracker and take charge of your score.

we got the new tempur-flex and it's got the spring and bounce of a traditional mattress. you sink into it, but you can still move it around. now that i have a tempur-flex, i can finally get a good night's sleep. when i flop down on the bed, and it's just like, 'ah, this is perfect.' wherever you put your body it just supports you. like little support elfs are just holding you. i can sleep now! through the night! (vo) change your sleep. change your life. change to tempur-pedic. ♪ ♪virgin islands nice♪

♪so nice♪ ♪so nice, so nice♪ book five nights today and get one free. plus $350 towards shopping dining or other fun activities. now that's virgin islands nice. ♪so nice, so nice♪ no artificial flavors, colors sweeteners preservatives, and no artificial smiles. because clean dressings, taste better. panera. food as it should be. i am rich. most weekends, you'll find me on my mega-yacht, which i bought from a mattress chain mogul, who could no longer afford the monthly payments. yes, i am rich. that's why i drink the champagne of beers.

good evening. 9:00 p.m. in new york and a lot happen inging. a search for two killers and dna evidence that they may not have gotten too far, just miles from the prison they may have broken out of. and now, new ground for them to

cover, and how the kirls got their tools from and let's just say that you may think of hamburgers in a new way. jason carroll. >> reporter: tests running on materials inside of a cabin. and sources say that the dna matches that of escaped cons richard matt and david sweat. state police are cautious about the findings. >> we have recovered specific items from the cabin and we have a forwarded them to the appropriate laboratories and reached a conclusive determination, but we are not prepared to release the information at this time. >> reporter: and police have descended the area, and put up roadblocks and warned residents to be vigilant. saturday 300 miles away word of another possible sight inging of

the meniere the border. >> we have conducted a search and e declared that area clear. >> reporter: also clear how the men gather eded the materials to make the escape. a source near the investigation says that they are looking at whether tools or other contraband is hidden inside of frozen hamburger meat passed to matt, and that the meat did not pass through a metal detector which is a violation of the prison rules. and they are also looking at the joyce mitchell may have convinced a guard to pass that meat through. and there is also an investigation of gene palmer where he worked on the honor block where sweat and matt were housed. he said he did not know of any plans for escape. >> he say thass that he did not know of anything in the past year to two years that have opened up

his eyes. he is a proud individual and he believes that he has information that will be helpful. >> reporter: palmer knew both of the inmates for several years, and accepted paintings and drawings that matt made for him, an investigators questioned him for nearly 14 hours saturday. >> gene was extremely truthful and forth coming a ndnd he wants the two individuals to be caught, and anything that he can do to help law enforcement to do their job, he is willing to cooperate. >> and jason joins us. do we know anything about the relationship between gene palmer and the two inmates? >> we do. gene palmer is one of those people who was of influence by joyce mitchell of all people. she said to gene palmer that they were good guys and they could be trusted and gene palmer would use them from time to time as a source when something was going wrong in the prison he could go to them and find out who was about to cause trouble and so he would use them in that capacity but be clear that joyce mitchell is still very

much the key figure here. as i said she influenced not only gene palmer in vouching for the two inmates saying they were good guys but also she vouched for these two inmates to other guards who were at the prison as well. anderson. >> thank you, jason. a short time the ago, a local sheriff weighed in on what the ser searchers are up against and the killers if they are in that massive and virtually untamed state park. listen. >> even in the area where we believe they were last seen, it is very rough terrain and not easy to get to and not easy to traverse and not easy year-round residence, and not all-season residence, and yesterday, the weather was gains against the detail and the inmates as well. heavy rain, and heavy winds, and it is just it has been a rough sled so to speak. >> that is alexander field interviewing the sheriff. he talked about the rough

terrain and what else about the search? >> what we are understanding from the sheriff while there rare a number of resources brought into franklin county and more than a thousand searchers, tips could be key from not only law enforcement, but the public. to the navigate the terrain, you have to have people on the ground the know what they are dealing with. the rangers are out in the woods to help with the investigation, and the investigators are going from treestand to treestand and let alone door to door and cabin to cabin to try to track the two fugitives they believe are in the area tied to the cabin we have been talking about. they are soliciting people in the public who have trail camps who are used by hunters to turn in any video they may have picked up on the cameras since this escape has happened and again, they are appealing to the public who lives out here who lives in the woods to notify

police if they are seeing anything unusual, because anderson it was a witness out there in the woods who saw somebody running near the cabin and alerted police, and that is how they found the cabin where they believe that the fugitives had pulled up for a period of time, and the sheriff saying if you have a seasonal cabin go check on it and if you have a garden hose out of place, go make that call, and in this case, it seemed to have helped anderson. >> how likely to have navigated by foot on foot from that prison to the cabin? it is the question on everyone's question, because it appear s that appears that the inmates may not have gotten too far, and where we are now, it is 22 miles from dannemora where is the maximum security prison they broke out of and it is dense forest and woods and you would think that you would have no way to know how to navigate if you didn't know the land but there are abandoned rail beds and power lines and snowmobile and other

trails to take you from dannemora to owls head. so if they were able to hook into the trails or the powerlines or rail beds they could follow the leads to get right here. >> thank you, alexandra field ss. and deborah feyerick joins us right here again tonight. nerms the of the person who owned the cabin and one of the owners who saw somebody running and not sure if it was one of the inmates, but dna showed up e peanut butter and water used but we don't know what may have been take then. >> that is all part of the investigation that is to determine what is in the hunting cabin, because there could have been knives or weapons, and sitit is a sort of basic sort of cabin, but still the investigators have to keeps a cessing and reassessing where are these guys and what could they have obtained as they are running. one, another game-changer is the

fact that these two inmates may well understand that now that their cover has been blown and they have been spotted and somebody was coming towards the cabin and they have been identified ast a particular location, and that is something that had not happened until this past location. >> and authorityies are concerned that these two may have been monitoring communications. >> that is another premise that the investigators are woshgrking on, because cell can phones do not work well, and some of the cabins have portable scanners insooid inside, and so maybe that is something they have access to, and other questions of what kind of communication, and television, and radios or something to that effect they may have been listening to and again, it plays into how the inves investigators go after them and choke them off from this area. >> in terms of the officers in the area do we know more about the officer that is being investigated and is he is the person that joyce mitchell may

have given this hamburger? >> and joyce mitchell had deep relationships with both of them and it appears that she may have duped this the prison guard gene palmer into the transporting and carrying this meat into the facility, and these, and the honor block that they had, they do have hot plates and so that the inmates may cook for themselves a ndnd whether she said this is not a problem, but she may have essentially duped him into unknowingly carried in particular weapons, and you can get, you know, the jab saws in that are about six inches long and cutters n and even cell phone, and cell phone are widely popular contraband in prisons and even money and it is unclear what contraband but they are look into the possibility that it is some kind of tool. >> deb feyerick thank you. and what the criminal experts makes of the evidence and what

these killers could be up to. ♪

fact. advil is not only strong it's gentle on your body too. no wonder doctors and patients have trusted advil... for their tough pains for over 30 years. relief doesn't get any better than this. advil. it's one of the most amazing things we build and it doesn't even fly. we build it in classrooms and exhibit halls, mentoring tomorrow's innovators. we build it raising roofs, preserving habitats and serving america's veterans. every day, thousands of boeing volunteers help make their communities the best they can be. building something better for all of us.

the breaking news tonight, the dna evidence in the search for two fugitives not far from the prison they broke out, and the tools that may have been smuggled into the prison from frozen hamburger meat. and a lot of moving parts here. and joining us is e joe

the cabins in the area? >> we rare told that this group of ceos have leased this eararea of hunting camps in this area that they are searching. >> one of the correction officers told the us that the attorney for one of the correctional officerses mr. gene palmer, do you believe he is involved in this? >> no, i don't believe he sis.

>> and in terms of those who discovered that something is amiss at the cabin and in terms of what they may have seen can you walk us through what they may have seen? >> from our sources who know this party and the individual that went to the cam, he went to check on the camp some time saturday and alerted to something or somebody was there, and saw something on the porch that was not right. he had something with him, and he exited the camp which was actually the other side and he came in from the rear and, but he did not see the identity for

sure. >> and your evidence is that there is dna evidence that places both men inside? >> yes. that is what we are told, and again, that is not, you know, it has not been confirmed definitely by the law enforcement yet, and we are also told that the items found in the cabin were a jug of water and a jar of peanut butter that were out on the table in the camp that this individual saw. >> and do you have any sense of how long authorities believe that these escapeees may have been inside of the ka cabin or weapons or supplies that they could have had access to? >> yes, it is uncertain how long but we know that there sis a whole string of these cam independence the area, and theoretically, these guys could be hopping from camp to camp to camp, and i am told that there is a lot of canned goods in the camps, and some have a lot of alcohol in them, and some may have weapons, and but most of

the hunters don't leave their weapons there when they rare not in the hunting season. and hunting season here it is primary in the fall september, october, november so they have been empty for a long time. >> and joe lotemplio, thank you. i want to bring in joe from the john jay college, and also our fbi profiler mary ellen o'toole. and certainly, john the sightings, and the dna, and this is a game changer? >> yes, anderson, it is a significant break for law enforce enforcement, and it is a closest scent they have had since the dogs last week. so, the dna found in the cabin along with the possible sighting of these two individuals certain ly reenergizes the law enforcement on the hunt, and allow s the law enforcement to

cast the net in that area. >> and professor kobilinsky, the dna was identified quickly, and it seems that in a lot of cases, you can't get the dna in a week or two. >> well, first of all, these are convicted felons and therefore their genetic profiles are on codis, and so we have that je genetic background for both of them, and so now it is extraordinary what we can do these adays, and we have a r.a.p.i.d. that can be in one day if you are prioritizing and put your people there, and day and night. >> and you vhave the genetic profile of the people already on it. >> yes, and you need biological evidence. apparently that is what they found. we don't know what. at first maybe a toothbrush or the hair brush or the comb or the item of clothing that they

can scrape clothing for the dna. we are not sure about that but whatever it is it sis certainly led to. >> and you can scrape the dna for dead skin? >> absolutely, wherever clothing comes in close contact with the skin and wherever there is friction and for example the collar on the shirt, you can scrape it, and get as much dna as you need to get a profile. no problem. >> and how long they the were there, and that is obviously not something that you can tell from the dna? >> well, you can't tell when the dna was deposited and maybe other ways of determining when they were in that cabin by the food they ate and other factors, but not through the dna. >> mary ellen with the law enforcement seemingly closing in on them and if this is in fact them how is this going to affect the fugitive's behavior if the they know that the police is on the trail, and they must assume that the police is on the trail, is there a pattern? >> well for these two people in

particular for the one richard matt, he is still dealing with, and he is still a psychopath and what he's not going to be as fearful as someone who doesn't have those personality traits and he also has unrealistic goals in thinking that he can get out of this. so those two things are really going to dominate, and he is not going to give up willingly, and he is optimistic and he believes that he can beat it. they are not going to be as fearful as you would expect someone else to be, and one of the first things that he would have been thinking about when he got a waiway from the prison is knowing that plan a, she was not there to meet them presumably is obtaining the weapons of some kind so that he would have those in te event that he needed them. >> does it surprise you, mary ellen, they are still together? >> in som wase ways it does, but they needed each other. they are not together because they are the best of friends.

they need one another, particularly matt. at the point where sweat would have been a problem or wouldn't have gone along wit, he would be dispensable, and he would have gotten rid of him, but at this point they needed each other because it has ban 24-hour shgs, around the clock, situation, and somebody had to sleep while somebody else was looking around to see if there were other people. so they are using each other, which is classic psychopathic behavior. >> mary ellen o'toole, i appreciate it and john cuff as well and thank you, lawrence kobilinsky. and just ahead, when did the racist views take shape in the shooter in south carolina. and also today, new moves to remove the confederate flag from the steps of the south carolina capitol.

♪ ♪i'm gonna take my road make my road♪ ♪i'm gonna walk on by on and on♪ ♪walk walk high, seasons go by♪ ♪walk walk by, suddenly i♪ ♪walk walk high...♪

when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums. ♪ ♪virgin islands nice♪

♪so nice♪ ♪so nice, so nice♪ book five nights today and get one free. plus $350 towards shopping dining or other fun activities. now that's virgin islands nice. ♪so nice, so nice♪

in charleston south carolina funeral plans are being made for the nine people killed inside of the historical emanuel ame church.

friday president obama will be delivering the eulogy for the pastor clementa pinckney. his body will be inside of the statehouse for public view inging. and today, there was ak selccelerated plans at the statehouse. and we want to talk about the racist ideology about this killer. >> it is a self-hatred ideology because those who knew him e growing up said he didn't have a fire brand of racist, and if you believe his writing, he was not raised by a racist family, but it is the george zimmerman trial over the killing of trayvon martin that fueled him. he said that was his hatred awakening, and moving forward this year he started his own

racist website and got a gun and then he started a weird journey to all of the spots across south carolina and the notorious ones dealing with slavery and confederacy and he was drinking and his friends said he was taking pills and getting angrier. then last wednesday he showed up at the side door of the emanuel ame chur canch, and that is the journey, and a sick one it is. >> and do we know anything about president obama's trip friday? do we know any of the details? >> we know that the president is coming, and the first lady is coming as well, and the vice president. i mean, that is really significant to have all three, but the vice president and the president in the same place, and as you pointed out, the president is going to deliver the eulogy, because it is not just a victim, but a person that he knew and of course he is a representative as well as being a reverend, and so in many ways she is the e epitome and represents all of those who died but of course you can bett that the president will be recalling all nine victims and

many are wondering if he going to be coming to the church himself. >> thank you, martin. two big pieces of breaking news tonight, we have learned that the mississippi house speaker says that the confederate flag emblem should be taken off of the state flag, and that is it is right there, and now today, the world's biggest retailer made a big announcement that the walmart is going to remove all of the confederate merchandise from its stores. and right now, the flag is flying on the steps of the south carolina capitol steps, but today, governor nikki haley said it must go. >> today, we are in unity on the state to say without ill well, it is time to remove the flag from the capitol grounds. >> and senator graham put out a statement saying that in the

worst of the tragedies, we ve seen the best. i am hoping it is moved to an appropriate place. and a string of would-be candidates got on board. joining me is statehouse represent representative doug brand. thank you for joining us, and i know you were friends with sen senator pinckney, and i am sorry for your loss, and can you explain to me why you think it s is important for the confederate flag to be take then down from the capitol grounds? >> well, in honor of the senator pinckney and those others that were murdered it is just that that flag cannot be on the capitol ground, and it needs to be a place of progress for everybody, and right now, it is not. >> and i know that the "post courier" newspaper has been reaching out to everyone in the legislature to see how everybody would vote, and tonight, roughly half of all lawmakers have not

returned the calls or the e-mails and a mar joy said they supported it, but it seems that the representatives want to kind of dodge the question or not be on record right now, and what do you say to that? >> well i won't speak for any member of the house except for myself but i knew and i said it yesterday, my my desire to introduce this bill was going to make people take a stand, and i am so thankful for governor haley's announcement today, and senator graham and senator scott to take the positions they have taken, and it is not just this bill, but it is those voices that are making these people take a stand. it is time to take that stand. >> you have said earlier though, that you believe that you could lose your re-election because of this. >> oh yes. that is very possible. >> i mean certainly, you are a republican. and to the republican

presidential candidates who say it is not worthy of the national the discussion and some candidates as you say have take the anne a stand, and other ss have said it is something that a presidential candidate should weigh in on and what do you, do you believe that? do you believe it is something that they should not weigh in on? >> well i'm, no, i don't believe that. anderson i'm not really a politician but elected official and i'm not a politician, because i won't say what i believe i want to the hear, but what i think. so if you ask me what i think about the flag, i am going to tell you that i would ask the presidential candidates to do the same. do i think that they have to? it is up to them, but i wish they would take a position. >> the fact that you have governor haley and senators graham and scott, and they are vague, look, take down the flag. do you believe it will happen and do you believe it is a tipping point? >> i'm not going to predict, but i know that the current is significantly swifter today as i

talk to you than it was friday when it was released that i had a bill that i wanted to introduce. so i certainly believe there sis momentum the. i think that there is enough votes in the house the to get the two-thirds and i hope that there is enough in the senate. i noticed that standing next to governor haley was senator leatherman who is without question the most powerful senator, the and he was there, and that has to mean something. so i am hopeful that we have the votes in both bodies. >> representative we thank you for your time, and we will be following it closely. thank you very much. >> up next drew griffin, tracking down the guy that the shooter in charleston credited in his so-called manifesto. [ male announcer ] andrew. rita. sandy. ♪ ♪ meet chris jackie

joe. minor damage or major disaster, when you need us most, we're there. state farm. we're a force of nature, too. ♪ ♪ ancestry has come out with a new version. now they have lifestory. it literally lays out somebody's life, from birth to death. when i was using lifestory i discovered my great grandmother. she went through a lot.

two sons go to fight in world war ii. she lived through the depression. and she made it through all of that. here i am. just because she survived, and she kept going. bring your family story to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com our eyes...they have a 200-degree range of sight. which is good for me hey! ... and bad for the barkley twins. take care of all your most important parts with centrum. now with our most vitamin d three ever. ♪ a good host, is a good host no matter where he's hosting. ♪ an hors d'oeuvre for the table? ♪ perhaps even an elegant gesture for the neighbors. ♪ stella artois host beautifully

working on my feet all day gave me pain here. in my knees. but now, i step on this machine and get my number which matches my dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic inserts. now i get immediate relief from my foot pain. my knee pain. find a machine at drscholls.com

21-year-old man has confessed to murdering nine people inside of the emanuel ame chur church and told friends and police that he wanted to start a race war and we are not using his picture or name because we don't want to give him anymore

rk in additionvhave -- any more recognition. and you have seen pictures of him wearing the rhodesian flags, and he also credits the council of confederate citizens. and drew griffin managed to track down the web master, and the southern povrerty law center has known about them, and what have you found out? >> they have posted on the website or at least it has kind of showing the black on white crimes and list after list of black on white crimes and trying to emphasize the point that white people are the actual victims in the all of that is going on across the world. you mentioned kyle rodgers, and he is the web master and one of

the leaders of the group according to the splc and he lives about 20 miles from here, and when i went to his door today to see if he would repeat some of the claims that he made in some of the rallies posted on the internet he basically just shut the door in my face and handed me a piece of paper, and on paper told me to call this spokesperson outside of washington, d.c., anderson. >> and you did talk to the spokesperson and his name is jared taylor and what did he tell you about the shooter being motivated by the website? >> yeah, he said that the website, the council takes absolutely no responsibility for what the shooter did in this church behind me but says that listen if we post the fact ss on our website and somebody takes that information and acts upon it what can we do about it? basically, i want to tell you that he said that we absolutely condemn what that person did, but it does not detract therein the

legitimacy from his position. so this group, and other groups like it although they are very tiny and very small, anderson, they have a white nationalistic agenda and we believe based on his own writings that the shooter visited this website, and self-proclaims that he was inspired by what was on this website. anderson? >> drew thank you, i appreciate it. joining me is richard cohen, president of the southern poverty law center and richard peachalini a former skinhead and he is author of "life after hate." richard, you say that this extremist group a although they are known by many they are politically not active but they are the largest white supremist group known by many? >> yes, that is true, anderson. up until the 2000s scores of poll tigings would go to the

meetings and address the group, and most of them are embarrassed, but kyle rodgers the web master for the ccc, and at least as late of 2013 was a member of the executive commit can tee of the republican party of the koun -- of his county and one of nickykki haley's members of the steering committee was also a board member and so the council is an unusual hate group and it is repugnant and race tois the core, but it has had mainstream acceptance especially in the deep south. >> and christian, we said that at one time you were a white supremist at age 14 and what were some of the ways that you found yourself radicalize and was the web critical for you? >> well anderson it was preinternet so i was a member of 198 7 1987 to the 1995 from the time i was 14 to 21 and, you know the way that the way that these

recruiters radicalize these people is that they put the fear of god in them, and they say that the white race is being attacked from all sides and place the blame for what is happening in your life elsewhere with minorityies and jews and blacks and some of the kids who join the groups and some of the young kids think it is for the right reason, and they are going to join their family and help as patriots but they are misguided and the recruiters and the extremists, they know how the target the young people so they believe the ideology right away and they will jump in head first and radicalize them. >> and so, richard i read this guy's so-called manifesto and it is the racist pab lum and the racist boilerplate that has been spewed by raiss for a long srais -- racists for a

long long time and it is just base racism can still take hold of somebody. >> yes, but chris is right, we see some margeinalized young people who are adrift, and have no real connections to others and they are looking for reasons outside of themselves to explain their failure and suddenly, they realize that, you know, they can be heroic if they strike a e blow for the white race, and at the end of the charleston shooter's man fesifesto he said, hey, you know, i might not be worth more than a speck of dirt but i will do something good for society, he said, and i'm the one brave one, and so instead of being a down and out kid with no future, and suddenly he is a hero to the white race. >> christian, as you read the manifesto, similarities in the type of rhetoric that this guy used that you were being told as a teen by other white supremist s s? >> well, i published my book in

april, anderson and he could have torn out pages from my book and posted it online and it would have play ded the same way. the rhetoric is the same, and the belief system is the same, and the ideology is extreme, and always about blaming other people people, and this is something that recruiting methods have not changed in 30 years. and he could have taken a page exactly like thousands of other kids are recruited and i believe that there are other people like dylann roof out there waiting to be radicalized and so extreme that they believe that the only way out is to the cause mass violence. >> thank you shgs, christian picciolini and richard cohen as well. and the president uses a racial slur in a dramatic use of the word to make a point about racism racism. and what others are saying about his use of the word when we continue.

the american dream is terrifying. american history is the history of the scary thing being the exact thing we have to do. cross that ocean. walk on that moon. fly. none of this makes rational sense. it only makes american sense. here, the hard things show us who we are. leaving your job to start your own thing. having a kid when you still feel like a kid. signing a 30-year mortgage on a home. scary sure but no match for our colossal self-belief. we're supposed to do scary. without scary, we don't get to be brave. buy in. quickenloans/home buy. refi. power.

if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla apremilast. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your doctor about otezla today. otezla. show more of you.

okay guys, we've got two cars here. we're going to start watching a movie in the chevy malibu. ♪ (kids laughing) he's flying ok guys, pause the movie we're going to watch the rest in the toyota camry. hit play again ehhh. what happened? you can't watch the movie. ugh... no network connection. who wants to go back in the chevy malibu? me! let's go! peace out! chevrolet. the first and only car company to bring built-in 4g lte wi-fi to cars, trucks and crossovers. this is cool. yeah. are you still getting heartburn flare-ups? time for a new routine. try nexium® 24hr. the latest choice for frequent heartburn. get complete protection. nexium level protection. thanks for calling angie's list. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors?

absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. days after the shooting of nine african-americans, charleston's ame church that supports african-americans, president obama used the n-word the make his point about overcoming raceism, a even if you

agree with the point, you might find the language difficult to take. >> racism, and we are not cured of it, clearly. and it is not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public and that is not the matter of whether racism exists or not, but it is a matter of overt discrimination, and we have to -- societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior. >> well, it has a lot of people talk thing, and joining me is new york times op-ed columnist, charles blow and prosecutor and political analyst sunny hostin. charles, to you believe it is appropriate for the president to use it? >> well, it is a context issue and he was using it to be illustrative illustrative and it was not used to be effective, and that

is the real point where you have to draw the line. and in fact when you look at other presidents and how they have used it it has been effect effective. and secondly, he was saying it into the mike and he was conscious it is recorded and broadcast and the other presidents were not doing, that and thaey were saying it behind closed door and many or most of all of them never knowing that it would see the light of day. that i think, that being forthright and not using it as a vektive, but instructive tool is important context to have made. could he have made the same point without the n-word? yes. and would we have been talking about it all day, no. >> sunny, you disagree. >> i hear you and you are my friend but bottom line, it is beneath the dignity of the office. you can have an open and honest dialogue about race and racism without using the racial epithets. >> but to charles' point, we would not be talking about the conversation on this program if he had not used the word. >> on balance, it was not worth

it, because when we have the president of the united states using that term that now gives license to the other people to use it -- >> and all of the presidents have done it and what license were they given. sfwh and we often hear that black people use it all of the time, and rappers use it all of time, and why can't we use it and nobody should use it. >> and michaela what about the context that he was using. >> if you google obama using the n-word pages will come up and this is not the first license and people have been calling him that all of the time and i wish that the same people would have been in arms when the people calling the president the word as him using it and spend as much time the as people using it as they are so obsessed with the n-word and not obsessed with black people. >> right. >> and so if it were a white president using that word then -- >> well, this is a moernd president, and right, and first

of all, he is in a podcast in a garage and called -- >> and that is the right to use it? >> no, this is the basic rule, and if you are not it, you cannot say it and so there are groups, right, and if you are black, and if you are gay, and if you are a woman and if you are overweight and there is the beauty of the language that it can be fluid and have duality and be complex -- >> and michaela words hurt and thaey matter. >> and they are used with the -- >> one at a time. >> and to say that african-americans can use the term, and white people can't is really being intellectually dishonest, and the bottom line is that no one should be allowed to use the word and we should retire the word. we rare the only group of people that use racial epithets to describe ourselves. i don't hear spanish people doing it and i don't hear asian people doing it. >> you need more friends. >> and i don't hear gay people using it to try to reclaim it. >> and that is not -- >> and like you said you are my friend but i don't know where you have been sunny.

>> alive and well, and the subject of that word. >> and the idea of the reclamation of the language and in-group language to hurt you and playing around wit to make it less harmful for you to hear it has a long history and it is not just black people, but it is all of the groups that michaela just pointed out, and whether or not you can debate whether or not that is the proper way to deal with the painful part of that language but you cannot say that it does not happen and you cannot say that we can extract these words, because in fact they are important to the language. and so it is for you, and if you use them in a way that are to educate people as a person i believe as the president is attempting to do as i listened to it several times, he is saying that this is a word that we don't say in polite company. >> and michaela, what about the rappers using it. >> in an artistic way? >> in a rap song well shgs, it is

okay. >> wait, wait. >> i would not want to take that word away from jay z or kendrick kendrick -- >> i cannot -- >> well the way that the president used it is showing us that we can't keep using race by simplistic margins, and that we are getting to structural systemic racism, and that we keep it surrounded by this word and we are going to be lost in that shuffle. >> and sunny, i believe that what you are saying is incredibly dangerous to the language. >> and i am saying is incredibly dangerous? well using the the word is incredibly dangerous and words matter, charles, and you know that and you are a word smith and so is the president, and he is trying to be provokcative and i thought it was inappropriate. >> the president has used it in many times in the memoir, because it is instructive to the mean inging and the moment, and i used that word many times in the memoir, because it was important

to the instructive to the meaning of the word and the moment and how it was used to hurt me and how people used to reclaim it, and the idea that we should excise words from the language i always find it dangerous. i believe that we need to use it in exact lyly the way that the president was attempting to use it which is to be instructive to say that -- >> charles, charles -- rappers, rappers using it -- >> well, the artistic thing and say say look at the art how you want to the use it. and we have done nudeity. >> and let him finish. >> and we have done the nudity in art when it was not appropriate to walk down the street nak and took theednaked, and took the kids to the museum to see it. and we have done ourselves when it is civilly on the streets and it is a separate conversation. >> i hear what they are saying but i am surprised that my friend so smart and insightful are defending the use of a word -- >> educational use. >> and the word that the civil rights leaders historically have

shun and instructed people not the use them. we are embracing a word that is so painful, so hurtful and i have of all people as an attorney defend free speech, but when you are talking about this particular term being used by rappers, and being used now by the president and now by the way being played over and over and over again on cnn, which is also shocking to me, because we have had reporters having to apologize for using that the ternlgs and now, because the president of the united states used it, i have probably heard it 10 to 20 times on this very network. >> you are dead wrong to say he embraced it. >> he has embraced it and now -- >> you are wrong. >> and you are completely wrong about that. he did not. >> and if you say freedom but -- and anything after "but" does not make sense. you cannot have freedom of speech but. >> of course you can. >> we have to leave the conversation, and we will have it again, and michaela davis,

sunny hostin and charles blow thank you very much, and we will be right back. ♪ ♪i'm gonna take my road make my road♪ ♪i'm gonna walk on by on and on♪ ♪walk walk high, seasons go by♪ ♪walk walk by, suddenly i♪ ♪walk walk high...♪ when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums.

more details on the move to take the confederate rat battle emblem off the state flag of mississippi. tonight house speaker ill philip began became the first to publicly call for it in his state saying we must always remember hour past.

that does not mean we must let it define us. the debate in mississippi began shortly after the charleston murders. no comment from governor phil brian who is a republican. that does it for us. cnn tonight starts now. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. this is what america is talking about right now. did this offend you? it's the confederate flag. is it a symbol of southern pride? or a symbol of hate? and then what about this? . does this offend you, this word? president obama said it out loud in an interview. and a lot of people are shocked. >> racism. we are not cured of it. clearly. and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in publ