owl's head new york. what's the latest sarah? >> reporter: you can see it has begun to rain here. many of the 1 day8 days it's been going on -- i can tell you they're still bussing in hundreds of police officers for this search to continue. we just saw six school buses filled with police officers and search crews, plus about a dozen other vehicles carrying all sorts of equipment coming into the command post. this new lead this dna evidence has them on the right track to find these fugitives. hundreds of state and federal officers redeployed. >> this is a confirmed lead for us. we're going to run this to ground. >> reporter: flooding this heavily wooded area in up state new york 20 miles from the maximum security prison. >> i don't think it would take a real woodsman to get on a power

h line and follow a power line to an atv trail. >> reporter: investigators finding the dna of richard matt and david sweat inside a camp during burglarized. a restaurant owner said he discovered the cab inwasin into soon after discovery. official says there is still no evidence the fugitives have any kind of support network outside of the prison but they are reviewing months worth of hotel registries in the area. >> if you return to your camp and anything is out of place, call 911 immediately. no lead is too small for us to investigate. >> reporter: i want to mention

something this this is a very rural area lots of trails. there isn't great cell service at all. investigators did say yesterday they are worries that these two men might have some way of monitoring police and radio communication. the district attorney did tell us that when they interviewed other inmates who knew these two inside the prison they had seen them with cell phones which they are not supposed to have before they escaped. chris. >> thank you very much. that's the most important part of the situation is catching the bad guys. but then we have the focus on how did they do this. the killers managed to obtain sophisticated tools to break out of prison. and how they did that and who may have turned a blind eye to it new information on both. boris, what do we know about how they may have gotten tools and who may have known about it? >> reporter: chris, some really fascinating details. right now we're at a command post about five miles from the

clinton correctional facility. we've seen a large contingent of law enforcement arrive in the past 20 minutes. law enforcement looking into allegations that prisoners may have gotten tool into their cells inside frozen hamburger meat. they're allowed to cook for themselves in their cells, so it wouldn't have been out of place for them to have food inside their cells. as sarah mentioned earlier, we know that police are checking hotel registries in the past six to eight months in the area to see if anyone close to richard matt and david sweat may have stayed in the area. we also know that gene palmer a corrections officers was questioned by investigators about 14 hours over the weekend. he's still on administrative leave but he has not been charged. his lawyer says he knew nothing

about the plan to escape. >> there's lots of new information to talk about. let's talk to a former fbi counter terrorism agent. thanks so much for being here. let's start with this seemingly big break in the case. they found these fugitives' dna in haunta hunting cabin about 25 miles from the prison. >> 18 days and they've gone about 25 miles. that's not much more than a little over a mile a day. so these people are reiterating now what the investigators have felt all along, that there's no evidence putting them out of the area. so they're most likely somewhere close by. they haven't really made a lot of gains over 18 days and they're breaking into cabins and looking for food and walterter. that's the kind of thing we

expected they'd do. >> here on this show you said i bet these guys are in some kind of summer cabin where the owners just haven't shown up yet to discover them. and lo and behold that's where the evidence of them has been found. does that mean they can now narrow their search to just a 25-mile sort of circle around that new hunting cabin? >> well they've done really well in that they've made no major asumpgsumptions and they always give themes plenty of flexibility. they'll now understand that probably these people right-hand turn going to-- aren't going to get too far. the people managing all of this they have people on the ground really have a great deal of credibility and i think that we're close. i think it will probably just take a few days maybe a few

hours, maybe by the time we're finished talking. but these are the woods. we could also be talking about this in another six months. but i don't think so. i think these guys are not survivalists and i think that we're close. >> in the past hour joyce mitchell the prison worker who has been implicated in helping them escape and, in fact charged, her husband just spoke out. and for the first time he's explaining what he knew about the plot which was nothing. basically he says that he was stunned when investigators called he and his wife in to ask them questions. he didn't know that they were connected at all, according to him. he also says -- let me play for you what he says about she explained to her husband the plot to kill him. listen to this. >> she told me that matt wanted her to pick them up. she said i never leave nowhere without lyle never. he said i'll give you some pills to knock him out and you

come pick us up. she said i am not going that. i love my husband. i am not hurting him. she said then i knew i was in over my head and i can't do that. she said they were going to do something to me to harm me or kill me . >> how much stock do investigators put into the husband of an accomplice when clearly the only story he knows is what she's told him. she may have been lying to him to save face with her husband. how do investigators figure out what he's saying and if it's the truth? >> well it's like we discussed before, they take any information they can get their hands on and look at it in the context of the overall investigation. at once it's kind of indicative of all the human drama that's always connected to things like this. on the other hand it's almost heartbreaking.

all he had to do was say something and all of this could have been prevents. hopefully we'll get through this and no one else will be hurt. but you think about the things that could happen and what he failed to do and what they failed to do by speaking up before these guys got out. it just really breaks your heart. i mean, there are people out there today risking their lives in a very vulnerable situation going cabin to cabin and door to door trying to find these very dangerous men. i hope it turns out that we don't have to look back and this is even more tragic than it is right now. >> i want to be clear. the implication is that he didn't know anything until they broke out. she knew about the plan but he didn't know. what he's explaining is what she told him after the fact after they had already left. meanwhile, terry, all the new information this morning about the evidence they left behind at this huntding cabin, does that suggest they never really had a

plan? >> it suggests exactly that. they had one plan. it didn't work. and then they decided plan two is to head deep into the woods. notice they didn't head to a town or city. they just got out of there. and now i think that they're going to get tired. they're going to be stressed. they're going to be wet. and as we talked about, they're not survivalists. i think that their time is running out. let's face it the woods up there in that part of the country are very very unforgiving. you don't know out at night and take a step off the trail or you may drop 100 feet. and you don't drink water from the creek if you don't want to get sick. they're in a bad way right now. and the odds are they're going to be found sooner rather than later. >> thanks so much for being on "new day." >> thank you, allison. tune in tonight for cnn's special report "the great prison

escape." we turn to south carolina now. after that horrifying massacre inside the charleston church the cries are growing louder now for the confederate flag to come down in south carolina. the governor and senator lindsey graham both calling it a symbol of hatred and racism. >> reporter: good morning to you. it seems that we've reached a tipping point in this controversy over the confederate flag. in just a few hours we're expecting a large gathering here at the state capital with protesters calling on these lawmakers to take down the flag. those lawmakers are returning here today to deal with the budget but we know the flag is going to be on their mind. and ultimately it's up to them to decide whether to remove it or not. and it all comes amid increasing pressure to remove the flag.

we saw wall martd saymart coming out and saying they're going to remove all confederate merchandise from their shelves as a sign of solidarity. the governor used to support the flag's presence on on the front lawn of the capital saying it represents heritage and tradition. but at the press conference yesterday she was alongside several bipartisan lawmakers and said now in light of the church massacre she realizes that the flag is a symbol that divides rather than unites and it's time for it to go. >> the flag will always be a part of the soil of south carolina but this is a moment in which we could say that that flag while an integral part of our past does not represent the future of our great state. >> reporter: and again, a huge group there joining her, showing their united front, including senator lindsey graham who of course is a 2016 presidential candidate.

he issued a statement as well saying that i hope by removing the flag we can take another step towards healing and recognition and a sign that south carolina is moving forward. so how is the state going to move forward? that is again up to state legislatures. and as a result they will be taking up this issue in the next few weeks. but it's not a done deal yet. at this point it does seem like there is an increased momentum however, to bring the flag down. we'll continue to follow all the developments for you. >> and that momentum going beyond south carolina. there are about seven flags that have some type of confederate flag influence in them. the obvious would be mississippi. phillip gun says the confederate emblem on the flag needs to be removed. this is the first time an elected republican in the state has publicly called for the flag to change. the symbol has been on the state flag since 1894. a referendum to remove it failed.

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his son plays for the team. no one was seriously hurt. >> i guess you could use anything as a weapon. >> parents and their kids and sports sometimes a lot of me motion there. >> i think he's got a history of emotion that has nothing to do with his kid. the key may be no serious injuries. in order to sustain the charge usually you need injuries. >> south carolina governor is not alone in calls to remove the confederate flag. a prominent mississippi republican following her lead, we will speak with him. the real question that needs to be asked is "what is it that we can do that is impactful?" what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. it used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, that's what i'd like to do.

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. but this is a moment in which we could say that that flag while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state. meanwhile, there's a similar battle now brewing in mississippi where the confederate flag is actually part of the state flag. what should happen with that? state senator kenneth wayne jones is chairman of the black caucus and he supports removing the confederate symbol from the flag. let me give you some of the things that have been offers up as to why the flag is a good thing and should stay. and you please offer up your perspective as well. the first would be well it's a symbol of our shared heritage

and people understand that it is not a perfect symbol of what we're supposed to be about, but it's our history and we've accepted it. >> i do understand the historical aspect of the flag. but also as an african american i understand the racist implications and the big bigotry that goes along with the flag. south carolina is taking a bold step because they get it now. they realize how offensive it is plus they also realize that most of the thing done now based on race or hate crimes as we say, you see symbols like this. and no longer can we afford to have everybody in a state represented by these symbols. >> but senator, is this just a knee-jerk reaction to what happened in the south carolina church, as terrible as it is

and not thoughtful policy. you had your own referendum in 2001. the vote passed 65-35 saying the people of mississippi have spoken. have you accepted that result? >> well we did accept the result. but it's always been in the background that we were going to bring it back up for discussion. reason being, because the conversation that we had in 2001 was based on how offense i haveive the flag was and also about the heritage on the justification side. but now the conversation is being a progressive state just like other states is this how we want our state to continue to be defined based on what we're doing? so no it's not. and we're going to follow south carolina's lead to start the dialogue on what we want to do in the future. >> what do you make of the notion that there are some after

condition american -- african americans that are okay with the flag. because not all african americans are of one mind and they have different thoughts about different things including slavery. do you accept that or do you think it's ridiculous? >> my question would be what part of that confederate flag besides you taking slavery as something that you use as economics represent african americans? nothing represents african americans in that flag and that confederacy, but the fact that the states didn't hide the fact that from an economic development standpoint they were going to keep on people of color to do the work to make the money. so no. i think that's ridiculous and i'm going to stay with that. >> okay. and the hope is that in changing the flag this is just a step. it's not an end in and of itself. it doesn't mean that mississippi has arrived at where it wants to be in terms of issues of

equality. >> no not by any means. what this means is simply if you are a flag sympathizer, then you can continue to sympathize with the flag. that's not what we're saying. what we're saying is that in this day and time in light of horrific events that has the dialogue going, it's time for us to sit down progressive individuals, republicans, democrats, black, white, and say, okay let's get a nag that represents the state as a whole where we all can be proud of our state and not just have a one-sided thing that standingss for so much history in mississippi. >> and hopefully it comes into play that this is a partisan dispute. i'm not sure why it would be. a lot of democrats instituted these flags and maybe they'll be responsible for changing it. senator, we look forward to what happens with the proposal and

the process. we'll stay on this story. >> thank you so much. >> best to you. now, what would you like to do to help the victims of the charleston massacre? there is need down there. and go to cnn.com/impact. you'll recall a murder mystery that has captivated the nation the murder of a washington, d.c. family. did the suspect in custody have help?

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here we go with the five things you need to know. number one, dna from the two escaped convicts in new york found in a cabin located 20 miles from the prison they escaped from. the search entering its 18th day. nikki haley and lindsayey

graham calling for the confederate to be removed from the capital. the dat sta hack affecting millions of federal employees maybe four times larger than previously thought. 18 million federal employees may have been hit by the cyber breech. president obama's fast track trade deal may make a come back. the trade deal facing a senate vote today. and the u.s. women's soccer team has advanced to the quarter finals in the world cup, beating colombia 2 hfr-0. they face ottawa friday. the washington, d.c. mansion murders are not solved. in fact there's new information about a relative of the suspect and that person's possible role. that's just one revelation in a cnn special report airing tonight. here is cnn east pam's pamela brown

with more. >> this is the savopoulos family a model family that lived here in washington, d.c. they were found brutally murdered more than a month ago, tortured in unspeakable ways. and following that a big break in the case came from a piece of pizza crust, dna from that pizza crust and an intense 48-hour manhunt ensued for the suspect darron wint. he talked to us about how it was really a race against time because they feared he was going to flee the country. he was here in the u.s. on a green card. so u.s. marshals believed that he was going to flee back to where he was born in guyana. here's what he had to say about that intention manhunt. fernandez and a small fleet of

law enforcement chased two vehicles the suv wint is riding in along with a truck of unknown associates. >> i could see the truck and the car, and so we pulled in right behind. >> after the suspect's vehicles pull a bizarre u-turn he makes his move. >> i decided we just had to take the cars down. >> and it was right here right? >> that's right. command was given, go go go. and we did it just like we practiced. pinched the car in blocked it off. >> fernandez and his team quickly removed the occupants of both vehicles. >> what was wint like? was he combative at all? >> when he came out, his body posture and the look on his face was like he was thinking about running. but we were right on top of him and he never got a chance. >> this manhunt lead to the discovery of new clues.

we've learned that darron wint's kuz cousin also worked with him at the iron works company owned by this family. we learned he was fired. not only that we learned that the company took out a restraining order against darron wint's cousin because he threatened to burn the place down. we should note that only darron wint was arrested but they believe that darron wint did not act alone. >> the cnn special report "the d.c. mansion murders" airs tonight at 9:30 p.m. eastern. now that south carolina's governor is calling for the confederate flag's removal, will they speak up? we'll discuss that ahead. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars.

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the massacre in charleston is a hate crime and the goal now is to heal. that's going to put racism

necessarily on the table. and the confederate flag is a symbol of that to many. a top mississippi republican wants the confederate portion removed from his state's flag. but many of the republican presidential candidates are not weighing in saying this is a debate that should be left to the states. should it? we discuss. paul begala is a go chair of a prohillary clinton super pack. tell me why you want to stay out of this issue? >> there's two reasons. i've been very clear that i think that the presidential candidates should have been more unequivocal about where they stood on this issue. and in combination with the state's rights issue. i think it's important to say that yeah as an outsider as someone who's not a part of

these states that who am i to tell them what to do. but at the same time i think it's also appropriate for them to say, look this is a symbol of hate treason, bloodshed. and we should no longer be glorifying it in any official capacity in any state in the union. if we're trying to heal after what just took place in charleston the history of this symbol needs to no longer be dplor glorified. >> do you think that they were trying to kind of slip by it because you've got a big conservative republican base down there who may not like if you say to take the flag down? >> it's a sticky issue for the south. we're still talking about this decades and decades later. obviously, some of these candidates are worrying about the calculated political risks

of alienateing certain people in the base. i think that given the context that we in now and the climate we're no now, the confederate flag is not something that i think is going to necessarily cost a candidate at polls are not. a winthrop poll showed that oh only 15% of people in the south have a very positive view of the flag. >> there's several different flags that could be seen to be borrowing from the confederate flag. we'll be seeing more opportunities. one quick thing for you on this paul the hillary clinton campaign comes out in 2007 and says i don't like the confederate flag. you have to take it down. does she have to answer for her time as first lady in arkansas standing with bill by the flag when it too borrows from the confederate flag? >> 22 years ago, zel miller was

the first governor that i know onto take on the confederate flag in georgia. the old battle flag was part of the georgia flag. and 22 years ago zel miller tried to take it off with the help of bill clinton. and we failed. this is a very difficult issue. i am really thrilled at the rapid progress after 20 years of waiting that south carolina has made and the fact that corporate america is now weighing in. this is a completely different country than it was 20 or 30 years ago. >> when bill clinton was governor he celebrated confederate flag day in arkansas every year. and hillary clinton was there as a willing participant. and 19 87 he signed legislation that put the con federalfederate star on

the flag there to represent that. i think she should be forced to explain her change this position just like the republicans have. >> racism is a national issue. let's see how it's reflecting in the polls now. they thought that hillary was on the wane. sanders the more liberal extreme in that party. 75-15. look at the republican field. we do see some apportionment going on now. ben carson holding steady in the middle of that back. you do see rick perry's entry there not really hitting a lot of sparks right now. what about the big heavyweights from each side? 48-40. what do you think tara is this kind of what you would expect at this point because we're so far out? >> yes. at this point it's really not a national election because you have to go through the primary

process first. south carolina new hampshire, iowa nevada all the primary states. it doesn't matter what the national polls are. you have to get a nominee first. now, hillary clinton has been pretty consistent up against bush and rubio. it fluctuated at a couple points. every gets a boost when they do their announcement. i guess she did her second announcement of the relaunch again recently. what's interesting -- and paul can probably speak to this. is that bernie sanders is inching up on hillary clinton in places like new hampshire and iowa where he's within 10%. >> he's going to test her on the base. she's more centrist. sometime there is's note investigation within the par-- who do you think poses more of a threat? john kerry or joe biden? >> well they're both

phenomenal. >> pick it. don't hedge on me. >> i don't think either of them has said they're running. but fundamentally there's going to be a contest in my party. bernie is in the double digits nationally. look at those early states iowa nebraska you're going to have a tough primary battle. hillary will begin.win. i really believe she will. this is not going to be a coronation. democrats will never allow a coronation. >> what do you think. tweet us using the hashtag new day cnn. and what do you think of begala's shameless avoiding of my question? president obama using some powerful language to make a point about racism. was his use of the n-word appropriate? what does real change look like

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take a listen. >> racism we are not cured of clearly. it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public. that's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. it's not just a matter of overt discrimination. we have -- societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior. >> and so began the ka-- i want to turn to tim weiss and cnn political commentator and op ed commentator charles blow. we'll put that aside and leave chris's bad sense of humor out of it. let's talk about the appropriate nature first of all. charles, i'll ask you. it was in context to make a point about racism. you take issue with the fact he used it? >> i didn't take issue with the

fact that he used it because i understood the context of it. he wasn't using it as an invective. he was using it as an instrument of illustration and also saying in the very breath he's using the word how impolite it is to use it in public discourse. he's saying this is not the marker of what racism looks like. it is not necessarily articulated. the fact that we don't necessarily have people walking around using racial slurs does not mean that racism disappears with the absence of the language. i think the idea of that is a really big idea. and it should not get lost in this conversation. >> tim, how about you? do you understand what all the fuss is about here? >> i understand that conservatives on twitter wanted to make an issue out of this. because they a lot of them white folks, don't understand why a black man can say that even in context, and they can't.

it's really interesting, like why the white folks need to say the word so badly. let me articulate the difference between the president a man of color, using that term in con section and a white person using it any time. i'm a southerner and i don't much like it when jeff foxworthy does 20 minutes of redneck jokes in his act. when he uses that term i don't think to myself maybe he hates southern rural folks because i know he's part of the family. in jerry seinfeld were to stand up and do 20 minutes of redneck jokes, i would have a problem with that because they're not in the family. it goes back to third grade wisdom which is i can talk about my mama but you can't talk about my mama. the real issue is for those of us who are white to think that we ought to be able to say it because black folks often or

sometimes do is absolutely absurd. it's not appropriate for us. i'm jewish. if i tell jewish jokes that's one thing. if it's in the church bulletin we have a different context. >> it's an interesting dialogue to have within the black community. what are you hearing and what's your experience with that? >> i'm a writer, so i come at it from a linguistic perspective. the word as mean and hateful as it can be, is a big important word in the literature. you can't actually get rid of it and actually have conversations about history and hate and race and racism in america and get rid of this word. you have to use it but you have to use it in historical context,

kind of instructional context, which is what the president was doing here. he used this word several times in his memoir. i used it several times in my memoir. it is historical. it means something in that moment. i can't talk about myself in a predominantly white country without illustrating the moment i first heard that word used against me or talking about how that word was used in as tim was saying in groups where people take words that are meant to hurt and play around with them so that it gets soft and it doesn't hurt you every time that you hear it. >> we've seen it in the women's lib movement. we've seen it in the gave community. what about that tim? in terms of the usage of this

word -- again, this was not context yule contextually what the president was talking about. he was talking about it in the context of the state of race in this country. why is it so difficult? >> we're focused more on the terminology. i think this was the point the president was trying to make. we're dealing with the terminology not the system ikic problem that dehumanizes black and brown bodies. we need to deal with the systemic and the structure, and the personal will take care of itself once we've dealt with the larger problems. >> you're not going to get consensus right on the fact that these structural and institutional problems exist. >> this is illustrative of this.

you can't be up and arms about the president using this word and not up in arms about all of the other presidents using this word in ways that were meant to be destructive and mean. if you cannot be angry with those presidents who were not talking into a live make consciously making the choice but rather doing it in ways that they never thought would see the light of day. if you are not just as upset at this man being called the n-word as him uttering the word then you are part of the structural racism that makes this conversation almost impossible. >> is there anything to the idea that the noise about the president's use of this word is going to supercede what he was trying to say? >> if we can make president

obama the problem, then we don't have to deal with racism. the "wall street journal" said in an editorial institutional racism is dead. so i think at some point we've got to realize this shooting and everything surrounding it is about fundamentally an unwillingness of a lot of white folks, not just this white terrorist who shot and killed these nine people but white people writ large to not grapple with the history. until we do that not only will the civil war not be over but the future of this country is going to be in doubt as well. >> again, this is not easy. this is not simple. it is uncomfortable. i get that. but i think it is something that we need to do. tim weiss, charles blow thanks so much for an intelligent conversation with me. i've got ten years, two heros and one incredible thank you. it is the good stuff and it's coming up. can a business have a mind? a subconscious.

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it hadn't been for firefighters. they pulled her out of a burning building. she literally came this close to dying. ten years later jasmine remembers, made sure they were the guests of honor at her graduation. >> so grateful for these two, because if it wasn't for them, i would not be here. >> the heros, of course say she's absolutely right. no. they say it was just part of the job. humble as always. >> this is what it's all about, you know. >> i love him. >> one line sums it up. she plans to devote her life to service as well. she's going to become a police officer. >> isn't that incredible? you think that often this is just one and done. i love that both parties remember each other. thanks for that good stuff, chris. >> you're welcome. >> shall we go to "newsroom"

with carol costello. >> we shall. >> you guys have a great day. "newsroom" starts now. happening now on the "newsroom." >> we've developed evidence that the suspects may have spent time in a cabin in this area. >> they were here. the dna says so. >> i'm not saying it's them, but he says i know somebody broke in our camper. i saw one guy running away. >> we're learning more about how they broke out in the first place. >> investigators are looking at the possibility that these inmates got tools into their cells through frozen hamburger meat. also it's time to move the flag from the capital grounds. [ cheers and applause ] >> south carolina's governor says take down the confederate flag. now the sentiment spreads south. will mississippi demand changes next?