unprecedented scope of counterterrorism response amid growing alarms of possible attack in the united states within the next several days. firing back top pentagon officials offer new defense of their battle plan against isis. even as a critical program falls significantly behind. >> up in flame, learning more about the possible cause of the newest fire at a southern black church. are fears of racially motivated arson attacks easing? towering trumping his mouth is costing him more money. tonight trump is talking to cnn and-up never know what he will say next. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> new details about the unprecedented security for july 4th. they're driving home the gravity of the terrorist threat right now. a top new york city counterterrorism official says

this may be the most complex counterterrorism operation ever put in place for this holiday weekend. and tonight, the nypd is deploying special forces tight police and bomb sniffing dogs. the u.s. military on heightened alert taking serious precautions fearing its force maze bes may be targeted by isis sympathizers or terrorisms. i'll ask congresswoman martha mcsally what she is learning retired colonel, and our correspondents and analysts they're also standing by as we cover all the news breaking right now. first let's get the very latest from our justice correspondent pamela brown. pamela. >> reporter: well wolf intelligence officials are more concerned about this fourth of july because of how much of an impact isis now has on social media. the recent global terror attacks and how difficult it has become to detect attacks before they happen. that concern is leading to

boosted security across the country. with heightened concern this fourth of july major cities like new york are deploying radiation detection devices. resources on waterways and in the air. and in addition to utilizing their more than 7,000 closed circuit cameras to prepare for the threat. >> this may be potentially the most complex counterterrorism overlay for event ever. >> reporter: u.s. law enforcement officials are concerned isis supporters could be inspired to carry out an attack during the holiday. because the it is symbolic in nature and falls at the same time as the islamic holy month of ramadan. ♪ with the u.s. tracking hundred of alleged isis followers, officials say it is difficult to detect in advance who could act out. >> they get it over the internet. isis wants to attack over the fourth of july. there is any number of soft targets that one of the psychos if you will could go out and carry out an attack. >> reporter: sources tell cnn there is increased chatter among

isis supporters leading into the holiday. but no specific credible threat. the home grown violent extremists remain number one concern for law enforcement. so far this year u.s. authorities have charged at least 49 alleged isis supporters. recent leap authorities arrested groups in boston and new york and overseas three near simultaneous terrorist attacks have u.s. officials on edge. >> we have the, what appeared to be three coordinated attacks overseas in france kuwait and in tunisia. so given the world situation we wanted to put those layers of protection behind the regular patrol piece. >> reporter: london is also in the middle of a frighteningly realistic rehearsal for possible attack after terrorists struck in three countries last week. and police departments like the nypd say that they will be stepping up monitoring social media looking for the kind of tips and cues on line similar to what happened before attempted terrorist attack in garland,

texas when you may recall wolf the shooter tweeted about what he was going to do hours before. >> remember that very very clearly. thank you very much pamela. now to concerns isis or terrorists will target the united states military around july fourth. chief national security correspondent is over at the pog for us tonight, what are you learning jim. >> wolf u.s. forces around the country have been at force protection or security level bravo. that means increased checks of vehicles coming into bases, i.d. checks for everybody. and it describes a threat in the word of military parlance is increased and more predictable. but we spoke to defense secretary today he describes just how concerned they are in particular about this coming weekend. >> we are always vigilant about force protection protecting our people. and isil is another reason. are we concerned about that? absolutely we are concerned

about it. >> the only threat levels above this are threat level charlie. specific credible threat to particular target. threat level delta which means a threat is under way and an attack is under way. the military feels the level they're at right now is already elevated and taking measures to prevent attacks law enforcement is worried about over the country. >> overseas jim, joint chiefs chairman, martin dempsey acknowledging this battle against isis is beyond iraq and syria, right? >> no question. take a look at attacks in recent days. major attack in egypt in the last 24 hours, killed 20 egyptian soldiers. at takes last friday in tunisia killing the tourist. in the mosque in kuwait. attack in france. i asked him is there a military strategy for military action? beyond iraq and syria? have a listen. are there plans in place or under kid rationconsideration to expand beyond iraq and syria to respond to those threats?

>> we are trying to build a framework, a scaffolding to address this problem transregionally in an enduring way so their defeat lasts. >> so what kind of military action do you look at outside of iraq and syria? things we have seen today. drone strikes. ground actions. they say if there is a threat to the u.s. they will act. nothing like what we are seeing on the ground in iraq and syria and from the air in iraq and syria. they do say they will not hesitate to take military action if they see a threat and believe they can take that threat out. >> all right, jim sciutto thank you very much. jim sciutto at the pentagon. this july fourth terror threat joined now by congresswoman, martha mcsally retired colonel, member of the armed services and homeland securities committees. congresswoman, thank you for joining us. are you aware of any specific threats right now at this time or just more of a general threat? >> wolf it is not a specific

threat towards a specific place or installation. but we have really a perfect storm coming together of the ramadan season where the isis leaders are using their social media in order to tell people you should be attacking during this time frame. then we have national holidays like we had armed forces day in the uk with foiled plots. now we are coming of on independence day in america. we have the attacks that happened on friday. we have the, anniversary of isis declaring their state. so this confluence of the perfect storm of this all coming together. we are seeing some chatter trying to inspire individuals to take on attacks. wherever they are. that is caused us to be heightening the alert around the fourth of july holiday. >> what team of attack, congress ko man woman, are you consrnd acerned about, small scale lone wolf or larger scale attack something along

the lines of al qaeda has done? >> we are seeing the threat. there is more of the small scale threat from the lone wolf that is either directed lie isis or inspired by them to just take it into their own hands, do something like we saw in tunisia. that's really difficult for law enforcement to be able to identify and track down. because they're not planning a large scale activity. so they don't peckick that information up. also if an individual feels that they want to do something they're going into these dark rooms of sure spot and kik and other ones that law enforcement with a warrant is unable to see what is going on in the rooms. as the individuals might be inspired or directed to do something. so if there is a large scale attack going on usually we can see those indication and that planning. but of it is really, individuals acting themselves become more of a threat and much more difficult to prevenlt.tprevent. >> are these individuals acting by themselves or isis cells where they're coordinating potential terror attacks against

the united states? >> so what we have seen there are isis leaders and part of their operation is to use social media in a sophisticated way. estimated over 200,000 positive tweets or other points on social media on any given day toward isis. so they send out messages trying to inspire people. then they're looking for -- some sort of communication from an individual to maybe follow up to be directed or they're just hoping people take things into their own hands. as so some of this direction and this inspiration is certainly coming from the isis leadership using social media in a way that we never really saw al qaeda using it before. >> we heard ash carter chairman of the joint chiefs martin dempsey say today they have heightened security at u.s. facilities in the united states especially going into the july fourth weekend. what does that say to you? >> well we have got good force protection procedures alerts.

we have seen that isis wants to attack military targets and individuals. so that just shows we are being vigilant. raising our alerts. it is going to be much more difficult for them to actually penetrate and attack a military base. there is more concern with law enforcement about larger gatherings more soft targets. the individuals coming together for a parade or some other large scale event. look wolf. i want to make sure anybody watching that doesn't mean stay hope. we don't need to be living in fear. this is our independence day. the whole point of terrorists they want to us live in fear and take away our way of life. if they can do that without even having a bomb go off. then they have won. we as americans, we need to be vigilant be on the alert. but have your fourth of july activities. go to parade. go to the activities. pay attention to your surroundings. if you see something say something. worst we can do is stay hope. we need to give the terrorists the proverbial middle finger. show them this is what america is about. we will celebrate, and do

everything we believe in. we will not be living in fear. a really important message. >> i totally agree. congresswoman, stand by. we will have more to discuss on what is going on in the war against isis not only here at home and around the world especially in iraq and syria. much more with congress woman mcsally when we come back.

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we're back with a leading member of the house armed services committee, intelligence committee, retired u.s. air force, colonel martha mcsally. talking about the unprecedented wrapping up of security around the july fourth holiday at civilian locations, military location as cross the united

states. concerns about a possible terrorist attack. we know there have been what nine arrests of isis sympathizers here in the united states this past month alone. over 30 this year. maybe more. are you confident that the department of homeland security is up to speed, knows what it is doing and tracking these individuals? potentially, terrorists out there? >> you know, wolf there is a couple developments. individuals flowing over from iraq and syria, over 20,000 of them. over 4,000 are westerners. estimated 200 americans. those are the only ones we know about not the ones we don't know about. some of them are flowing back into the country. and some from visa waiver countries could come into america. one element is countering the flow of foreign fighters and terrorists. the other element of those staying right here at home and just being inspired through the radicalization and through social media from isis. and you would be shocked to find out that there is only 16 people

across all of our federal government with homeland security department of justice and the counterterrorism center that are responsible for countering this radicalization. only 16 people. we have 20,000 irs agents that are making sure that you and i are paying our taxes and making the right deductions but 16 people responsible for countering radicalization here at home. and we have had 57 arrests so far about 10% of them are women. that are, you know in america. it keeps ticking up. this is 19 different states and growing. so you know this is not somebody else's neighborhood. this is happening right here in our own neighborhood. and one thing we are doing on on the homeland security committee is really taking a look at this issue and lack of manpower addressing the counterradicalization and we'll be marking up legislation here coming up soon in order to increase the authorities and direction to make that happen. >> want to beep precise what i am hearing. you say congresswoman, 16 individuals, federal employees across the federal government department of homeland security

the fbi, the cia, the national security council, only 16 people you say are monitoring what? >> that are doing counterradicalization. so part of what we need to do to address what is happening we have got individuals being radicalized. so we have got to counter that, counter messaging, using social media, ourselves, working with local law enforcement, working with faith leaders in the community with local law enforcement to make sure that those that we see are taking that road to radicalization are somehow intercepted and we can counter that. there is only 16 people doing - that right now. >> why is that? that sound like such of a tiny number given the threat? >> right. well this is a new phenomena we have seen certainly. didn't see quite this level with al qaeda. isis is its own sort of terror franchise that is in the last year been stepping up their sophisticated use of social media. but the problem is that we are moving at the speed of of bureaucracy while they're

proving at the speed of broadband. we have got to be much more responsive off to this change and this threat and be more nimble to get out there and to counter it. but we can't just do it with the federal government wolf. i mean this is a matter we have seen with many of these arrests you. have got family members who maybe saw somebody was becoming radicalized or posting something on facebook or maybe faith leaders or teachers or coaches. so it really is up to all of us that if we are seeing someone in our life who is taking those steps and moving down that road that we fry andtry and do something to intercept that. we can't rely on the federal government to beef pointing that out in our community. it really takes all to take that effort. >> basically want to be precise on this congresswoman, only 16 people are engaged in the anti-isis, counterisis social media activity. there are probably hundred if not thousand of isis sympathizers all over social media as you say. but there is only 16 u.s. officials engaged in countering them on the social media sites?

>> yes, at home. yes. there are some additional from the state department that are trying to address it abroad. but at home across the federal government there is only 16 people on the payroll that are, that are focused on countering violent extremism and countering radicalization. we have got to change that. lick i like i said 20,000 irs agents. out of balance. >> isis is winning the battle on social media. the u.s. has a lot of work to catch up. even though we invented basically that social media. how is that war against isis working out so far in syria and iraq? >> not so good wolf. i have been very critical of it. i think we have got a false narrative here where people are looking at well air power is an ochtion, or massive boots on the ground. and they're looking at the air campaign so far which i have been critical of in saying well maybe air power isn't working. but i believe we are not using air power in the way that we could in order to actually put isis on their heels, destroy

capabilities change the momentum because one of the reasons they're able to recruit so many new individuals it looks like they're taking on america and winning right now. that just adds to the sort of romantic effort to why don't i go over there and join the fight. we have to use air power in a stronger way to stop their momentum roll it back, destroy some of their cape built tees and provide the space for the political and diplomating and countering the basically ideological solutions. right now holding one hand behind our back really some times both hand behind our back, using air power. and alug them to build momentum adding to the recruitment and their success. >> you speak as an authority. retired colonel. the first colonel female pilot to fly in combat. you know the region well. give us a final thought what does the u.s. need to strengthen air power against isis? >> absolutely. we need to be putting attack

controllers on the ground. they can help identify targets. we need better intelligence. special operations embedded with the indigenous forces. we need if we have a legitimate target. we need to minimize civilian casualties. we shouldn't be called off the target specifically of perhaps one civilian casualty while allowing isis to then murder thousand of individuals as a result. we need to use air power. as a strong element of our military operation. in order to actually get them on their heels. destroy their capability destroy command and control. logistics cape built tee. ss capability. we need will and rules of engagement to let the power work >> congresswoman martha mcsally. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. appreciate it. have a happy fourth. be safe be vigilant. >> you too. thank you. ahead. live at the scene of the latest fire to strike an african-american church across the south. stand by. new information about what happened. >> can donald trump explain his surge in the new republican

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tonight we are following the investigation into a sixth fire in an african-american church in the south. there are now fears across the region of racially motivated attacks after the shooting

massacre at a black church in charleston brian todd joining us now from greeleyville in south carolina an hour from charleston. what's the latest over there, brian. >> reporter: wolf see what's left of the mount zion ame church. outside the brick structure still there. atf investigators told us not long ago they sent in canine team to look for accelerants to. night federal investigators believe this fire might have been started by of a lightning strike. that according to senior officials in the fbi still, given the charm sleston shootings and the history of this church no one is ruling out sinister motive. >> reporter: so far no signs of arson. investigators suspect lightning may have caused the fire. a forensics report of lightning strikes by cnn meteorologists shows four strikes occurred in the immediate vicinity of the church around the time the fire

was raging just after 7:00 p.m. eastern. it was just two weeks ago that nine worshippers were shot and killed in a charleston south carolina church. that shooting by a white 21-year-old saying he wanted to start a race war. since then at least six black churches have burned in the southeastern united states. a fire at glover grove baptist church of warrenville, south carolina two more in charlotte, north carolina knoxville, tennessee, both caused by arson. the cause of macon, georgia's recent church fire undetermined. authorities say a fire at a tallahassee, florida church likely result of natural causes. southern poverty law center says recent religious targets of hate crimes have been synagogues and mosques. but the senior fellow says although there is no real evidence so far suggesting any of the fires is a politically motivated arson, the recent flurry of black church burnings is cause for concern. >> it is very difficult not to be struck by how these fires

have been kind of bunched together very closely, after extremely widespread criticism of the confederate battle flag which is a symbol really revered by white supremacists and others in the country. >> the former fbi director cites current fbi statistics indicating average of one fire a day in a religious institution. >> in the investigation of the fires they determine add but 60% of the fires are arson. and the vast majority of the arson cases turn out to be insurance fraud or in some cases somebody was pulling a prank or vandalism that went too far. >> reporter: and threats against churches are common place across the u.s. sheriffs officials in nearby county told us today that recently five a.m.e. churches in the area received threatening letters before and after the charleston shootings. but officials say those letters are not believed related to an of this because they think the threats are connected to the

fact that the churches are headed up by women. female pastors head up the congregations and the threats were not racial low motivated. >> church behind you what's left of it. a fir there 20 years ago that burned that church as well. what are local religious political leaders on the scene there in greeleyville telling you about how they feel emotionally given everything that's happened? >> they have been devastated by this wolf. one local official told us this is a punch to the gut. the local mayor said he has an ill feeling. they revere the church because of what happened 20 years agecht it was burned to the ground by two members of the kkk then renovated, president clinton came become to dedicate this. but just given everything that happened. the nerves are so raw around here. any one affiliated with the church is walking on egg shells. >> thank you, brian todd on the scene, outside the church. joining us now to discuss what is going on the south carolina state senator marlin kimson and national urban league president

mark morelle. it looks like the fire may have been started by lightning, there have been several instances we heard in brian's report of other predominantly african-american historic churches in the south being torched if you will by arson. what's going on? what is your analysis? well as the the official noted that we have not determined the cause. i can assure you that we will concede that lightning did indeed strike the area. but the cause is still being investigated and we have a number of federal authorities and state authorities analyzing data and gathering the facts. we know in this nation that hate groups strategically target particularly african-american churches to elicit fear pain

and inflict violence. if it is determined to beep this was associated with hate groups we will not let this defeat us. be sure that the charleston community is sending its prayers and support to the williamsburg county williamsburg county one of first count yezies to donate to the charleston victims of the massacre. and we are going to be there to support williamsburg county and the city of greeleyville and mount zion as they repair and rebuild. >> what do you think mark morelle, do the churches need to increase their security now? >> everyone has to be vigilant all churches particularly african am can church-american churches and houses of worship have to be vigilant. it is clear churches and houses of worship are targets of hate

groups. lest we think perhaps these incidents are isolated. there were 3,600 hate crimes reported in 2013. if you go back to the 1990s, there were 670 wolf incidents of arsons bombings attempted bombings directed at african-american churches. i hope that we're not returning to that period. but there is great, a great deal of consternation, pain anguish, when you see these churches burnings in the aftermath of what we witnessed in charleston. i might add all of this is taking place in the south. much of it is taking place in smaller communities, or rural communities. indeed in the south. we must be vigilant. we want to urge all law enforcement not to speculate prematurely. and we are not going to speculate prematurely. we have got to determine and there has got to be a determination as to whether or not this is a hate crime or

whatever the, the cause is of these, of these awful burnings. we certainly keep all of the congregants and the leaders of these congregations in our thoughts and our prayers. because now they have got a challenge to rebuild. thank god no people have been hurt thus far. >> but a lot of people fear based on the e-mails i'm getting, tweets i'm getting, a lot of people fear this is not just a coincidence, hatch penning in the aftermath of the massacre in charleston south carolina. guys let's continue to watch what is going on. we won't draw hard fast conclusions yet, but continue to monitor. this is obviously a very very important story. thank you very much to senator kimson and mark morelle, president of the national urban league. ahead, news we are following -- donald trump dismissing jeb bush as he gains on him in the brand new cnn poll. tonight the mogul turned presidential candidate is talking to cnn's don lemon about his republican rivals. trump also has the a tongue lashing for the latest company

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sefers itssef severs ties. macy's is pulling merchandise from stores because he referred to immigrants as killers and rapists. the retailer says trump -- >> and tonight, trump is speaking out even more in an interview with cnn's don lemon. don is joining us now. you had a chance to ask trump about his second place finish in the cnn poll behind jeb bush. what did he say? >> he has mixed feelings. donald trump as you know wolf does not like coming in second. he thinks he should be first. he should be polling higher. obviously he thinks he is the right man for the american people. he is not a big fan of jeb bush right now. here's what he said to me. >> well i am not happy being

behind jeb bush to be honst withest. he is in favor of common core weak on immigration. he thinks people come over for love. i'm not at all happy. i don't understand how he is in first play. i am certainly honored by the poll. and people are understanding my message which is basically make america great again. and we're, we're doing very well. >> why is he beating you then? >> i have absolutely no idea. maybe it's the bush name. but the last thing we need is another bush. but i will tell you, i am a little surprise that he would been the position he is in. >> uh-huh. so he is surprised at that. he also talked about some other candidates. and it was a rare moment that he held his tongue. when i asked him about the other candidates. you will hear that question later on and huh he responded hear tonight at 10:00. wolf he was very candid as usual. he talked about chris christie because, they sort of had the same brand when it comes to speaking their minds.

and you are going to hear what he had to say about chris christie in the interview as well. but he would look to be number one. he says in his estimation the party leadership is taking him seriously. the other candidates may be firing back at him because they're afraid of him. he thinks the republican party leadership takes him seriously he says they want him to be you know, in so many words, the nominee. >> you also had a chance don to ask him about the controversial comments about immigrants comments about rape he didn't back down did he? >> he did not. in fact he he doubled down. he believes that he is right. and the interesting thing is is that he believes when it comes to i said the party thing, party leadership and with the comments that the american people are on his side. the leadership are on his side. it's just that sometimes the media portrays him he says negatively. and sometimes other people running for president portray him negatively because they're afraid of him.

he said he is polling so high he believes because he resonates with the people. that's what's important. even when it come to the comments about rapists coming across the border and criminals coming across the borders. have a listen. >> if you look at the statistics of people coming i didn't say about mexicans i say, the illegal immigrants. you look at the statistics on rape on crime, on everything. coming in illegally into this country, they're mind-boggling. if you go to fusion you will see a story about 80% of the women coming in i think, you have to take a look at the stories. you know who owns fusion -- univision. i was in the huffington post. i said let me get some articles. i heard horrible things. i deal a lot of talking with people on the border patrols. they're incredible people. they love our country. they're incredible. >> i want to get clarification. >> don, all you have to do is go to fusion. pick up the stories on rape.

it is unbelievable when you look at what is going on. all i am doing is telling the truth. >> i have read "the washington post." i read the fusion. i read the huffington post. and that is about women being raipd. raped. not about criminals coming across the border entering the country. >> somebody is doing the raping don. somebody is doing. don't just think it's women being raped. who is doing the raping? who is doing the raping? how can you say such a thing? >> that's going to be the headline. who is doing the raping? the distinction i was trying to make the articles make the price of admission for the women who are coming across the borders, sometime they're sexually abuzzed by men who may be helping them to get across the border not. that rapists and criminals are coming into the country. you heard his reacts wolf. >> we did. not a shy guy at all. really looking forward to the full interview tonight. don lemon thanks very much.

don's wide ranging interview with donald trump later tonight airs tonight on cnn. 10:00 p.m. eastern. check it out. just ahead. a bitter feud laid bare between two of the biggest names in democratic politics right now. will it hurt the party in 2016?

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two of the nation's most prominent democrats is becoming very, very public. both have a history with hillary clinton. some are wondering if the tungs could spill over into the presidential race. brianna keilar is here with more. this is extraordinary what's going on. >> reporter: it s.is. it's not unusual for them to be at odds. they are having quite the fight. de blasio going nuclear after a very unfiltered interview. >> that reeks of politics. >> reporter: bill de blasio taking his frustration with governor andrew cuomo public. >> what we have seen is if someone disagrees with him openly some kind of revenge or vendetta follows. >> reporter: in an interview, he blasted cuomo, a fellow democrat for what he called a lack of leadership and game

playing. de blasio accusing the governor of stymieing a housing initiative for low income people. the two men go back decades to the clinton administration. recently as de blasio chafes against cuomo, their feud erupted with this. >> he believes deeply in the transactional model. he needs to transcend that. >> reporter: de blasio has aired concerns about other democrats before. >> i think it's a very close race. >> reporter: he managed hillary clinton's campaign. she attended his inauguration. these days he is with holding an endorsement of her presidential bid. >> until i see a vision of where they want to go. i think she's one of the most qualified people to run for this office. we need to see the substance.

>> reporter: after attacking cuomo, de blasio left town. the governor's office noted in a response to the mayor's interview. for those new to the process, it takes coalition building and compromise to get things done, a cuomo spokeswoman said. we wish the mayor well on his vacation. this is going to play out for some time. the mayor's term is until 2018. the governor was just re-elected last year. there's more where this came from. >> there probably is. these guys are really battling it out. stand by. i want to bring in our senior washington correspondent and our political director. david, you followed this very closely. it's quite extraordinary as briana reported. how could this play out potentially assuming this bitterness continues impacting hillary clinton? >> i'm not sure it will have a huge impact. as the piece pointed out, there's a long relationship there. bill clinton was introducing de

blasio. bill clinton on the other side of the relationship helped ease cuomo out of the primary in 2002. there's a deep embedding with the clintons with these two. i don't see any spillover affect. this is a traditional tension between a governor and a mayor in new york that has now spilled out in a very non-traditional way. i think it will have more of an impact on their re-election battles than on hillary. >> i suspect you are right. the numbers for donald trump. he is doing well not only nationally as well as new hampshire and iowa. is he donald trump, the name recognition? >> part of it is name recognition. people are in a non-political mood. voters are angry at washington. they love the fact that donald trump says it like it is or as he sees it. and he is not a political known quantity. on the other hand i can tell you, i have never heard sort of so much alarm at this point in the campaign from republicans

here in washington and governors across the country concerned about his rise here. particularly on the tone of immigration. it's music to the ears of some republican activists who are sort of anti-immigration. but it's worrisome to the party. mitt romney got 27% of the hispanic vote. that's the target. they think trump is hurting that. >> having said that a lot of the republicans are reluctant to go after him publically. >> sure. lindsey graham in iowa this afternoon said he thinks that trump is wrong on this. jeb bush said that. we will see more come. the question is now they will mitch it up among themselves. that's not good for the party. >> george pataki the former governor of new york he issued a statement today going after trump on all of this. how is it going to play out on the debate stage? he will be presumably in the top ten candidates according to the national polls. he will be up there on stage. the impact could be significant

if he starts berateing jeb bush or some of the other candidates. >> you can imagine that. we talk about the spat is. that would be small compared to what we would see if donald trump is on the debate stage bringing the republican candidates into this -- into what would just be i think like something that we have never seen on a debate stage. what is interesting to me is talking to republicans, there seems to be in plan to deal with it. when i talk to republican sources, they say they are not convinced donald trump is going to stay in the race that long. one person actually said to me this financial scrutiny that he would have to go to akin to a prok toe logical exam. i don't think he will go through with that. they don't have a plan. >> i will say that jeb bush when he did slap the comments down and said they were wrong, he did a little foreshadowing and said perhaps we will have the opportunity to discuss this on a stage soon. not shying away from what that confrontation --

>> that first debate is in august. jeb bush is doing well. he got a bounce with his formal announcement. >> he did. we have seen that with several candidates. i think you have to give jeb bush credit. he had a near flawless trip overseas which is not the easiest thing to do for the presidential candidates as we have seen with others. a strong announcement speech. he has been separating himself as being the real adult presidential material kind of guy in the room. i think this is benefitting him. he replaced his campaign manager. he has gotten his house in order. i think he is benefitting from some of the attention to trump. there's a clear alternative there for the non-trump -- >> he hasn't been attacked. that is going to happen. there are people crowded in the social conservative lane. they will take him on in iowa. >> on the democratic side we see hillary clinton. she's way ahead in our brand new poll. bide seasonn is number two even though

he hasn't announced. bernie sanders is three. what do you make of what's going on? will this put pressure on joe biden to throw his hat in the ring? >> i think that joe biden is in a period of mourning. we talked to friends of his. they believe he's not in a position to run. he has to be happy about that. that's a respect -- that's a sign of respect in the democratic party that people would like to see him run. tonight in wisconsin, perhaps 10,000 people are gathering to see bernie sanders. what knows what that means. the energy is out there on his side. >> when i think of joe biden, i think of at least from his perspective, he is not just a brides bridesmaid. he is the second choice. i don't see a lane for him. at this point, hillary clinton sucked up so much of the oxygen. when it comes to money, resources, when it comes to staffers that's been the case for months and months. >> she's raised $45 billion. that's a lot of money. >> just priormary dollars.

that's difference than 2008 and 2007. she mixed general dollars and primary dollars to get an inflated number. they have been working her hard. she raised a ton of money that nobody will -- >> primary dollars. she can use them during the primary. caucus dollars she has to wait. >> it's twice as much as she raised in her first period of 2007. that's significant. >> more than obama in 2011 when he was the incumbent sitting president. hillary is -- >> what does it say that sanders is getting huge crowds? >> it says there's an appetite among democrats for an alternative to hillary clinton. there are a lot -- this is what we see. there are liberal democrats who don't believe that hillary clinton is as liberal as they are. they believe bernie sanders when he talks about his views, which is more liberal. that's why he will have a role

in shaping where she goes. we have seen that play out. >> watch the political scene unfold in the coming days weeks and months. thanks very much for joining us. follow us on twitter. you can tweet the show. erin burnett "out front" starts right now. escaped convict david sweat saying he abandoned matt because he was out of shape and drunk. he says it was prison worker joyce mitchell's idea to kill her husband. is he lying? warnings of a possible terror attack this holiday weekend. one official tells cnn it's the most intense level of concern since 9/11. new york city with a new effort tonight. we have a special report. a shark attack off a north carolina beach, the seventh attack in the past month. we will talk to a mother of one of the victims. let's go kwlt"out front."