happening now, running out of patience. the exchange on capitol hill over the slow pace of the war against isis. the pentagon admits that only a few dozen syrian rebels have been trained to fight the terror group. the powerful senator accuses the administration of quote, disturbing self-delusion. mid-air collision. a jetliner scatters debris over a large area in south carolina. and our cnn exclusive. hillary clinton gives her first national interview as a 2016 candidate. speaking out on a republican rivals, her e-mail controversy and her own issue of trust. >> should and do trust me. and i have every confidence that that will be the outcome of this election. >> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and

around the world. wolf blitzer is off tonight. i am jim sciutto and you're in "the situation room." >> an astonishing admission from the pentagon underscoring just how tough a slug the war against isis will be. the defense secretary told congress, the u.s. has trained only 60 syrian rebel fighters the day after it was acknowledge that had the war will be long term and warned in his words of a generational struggle. carter and join chiefs chairman martin dempsey faced lawmakers who are clearly running out of patience and a cnn exclusive in her first national tv interview as a 2016 candidate. hillary clinton talks about her e-mail problem. her issue of trust and her rivals. she slams donald trump for his harsh words on immigration. >> i'm very disappointed in those comments.

and i feel very bad and very disappointed with him and with the republican party for not responding immediately and saying, enough stop it. >> i'll be speaking with the state department spokesperson. and guests standing by with full coverage of today's top stories. we begin with cnn pentagon correspondent barbara starr. a remarkable and sobering day on capitol hill on the war on isis. >> jim, absolutely. the admission of the slow pace of the war gave congress plenty of room to jump in with criticism. with isis still in control of many parts of syria, a stunning revelation from the secretary of defense on just how slow u.s. training of moderate syrians to fight isis is really going. >> as of july 3rd we are currently training about 60 fighters.

this number is much smaller than we had hoped for at this point. >> reporter: the u.s. had wanted to train up to 5,000 per year. but a major problem? getting fighters willing to promise to only fight isis in syria. not syrian president bashar al assad's regime. senator mccain is furious. >> mr. secretary, this is not a very pleasant exchange. i would like answers to questions. will we tell them that we will defend them against the bombing? >> i think we will have an obligation? >> will we tell them that? >> we have not told them that. >> you have not told them. >> reporter: leaving the door open for a small number of american troops working as forward air controllers to assist in calling in the air strikes to help iraqi forces. >> i agree that there are points

on the battlefield where the president's observers, embedded soft forces would make them more capable. >> reporter: the administration says there are no plans for mort u.s. forces. >> in order for us to succeed long term in this fight against isil we have to develop local security forces that can sustain progress. >> reporter: but almost one year into the american involvement, questions about whether the u.s. can afford patience. >> if you're suggesting that isil's threat to the homeland could increase because of this patience, i concede that risk but i would also suggest to you that we would contribute mightily to isil's message as a movement were we to confront them directly on the ground in iraq and syria. >> reporter: so what would change this balance in iraq and syria? what many commanders are saying

behind the scenes is they need to see iraqi fighters syrian rebel fighters be able to take back and hold for a very long period of time. significant amounts of territory. the battlefield right now, very fluid. territory exchanges hands, they need to get that territory out of isis hands once and for all. >> particularly big targets like mosul in the north. another deadline has slimmed away but the united states and key world powers will keep negotiating with iran on a nuclear deal. officials say the talks will go through friday now. there has been progress but there are still some major sticking points. if a deal is reached, it will still need to pass scrutiny. let's turn to you. we've been covering these talks from the beginning. going back two years now. a lot of deadlines have come and gone. is there still a deadline? >> well, no. this is like the fourth deadline of this round. if you listen to u.s. officials speaking, they don't use the word deadline. they use extension of the talks

or extension of the internal agreement. i think they felt that there was a lot of momentum in the room. this congressional deadline of thursday where the congressional review period would double was inching up on them. they felt there was enough momentum them didn't want to say let's go home. they want to keep going. i think they wanted to show the iranian that's they weren't going to buckle under the pressure of a deadline. iranians are famous in these talks for waiting until last minute and then trying to get hard bargains. i think secretary kerry wanted to say to congress and the american people and the critics that the u.s. wants a good deal. the deal is more important than the deadline. if that means they have a congressional period 30 60 90 days they want to it pass muster. >> i was speaking to a senator who was briefed earlier today, will he letting this other deadline pass and letting the interim agreement continue? >> that'sne what i think will happen.

if you talk to officials, the tone in the room is pretty somber. i don't think there's enough progress that they could sign a deal this week. i don't think anybody wants to walk away entirely from the process. i think a couple of things could happen. there could be a deal which i think is kind of unlikely. they could keep working through the weekend. some people would like to do. maybe secretary kerry. i think others think it is time to come home including maybe the white house and they could say to the iranians, listen. let's keep this going. let's let the interim agreement stand. we'll come back. it is entirely possible they say, call us when you're serious, please and tell them we'll go home and think about plan b. >> support is temperature i had even on the democratic side. you wonder how long they'll maintain patience. thanks so much. we know we'll continue to watch this. does the obama administration's entire middle east strategy depend on this? >> reporter: at this hour

president obama is sitting down with senate democrats at the white house about those ongoing iran nuclear talks. as a matter of fact a few moments ago they arrived at the white house behind me. it is a critical moment in the talks as she mentioned. the white house said publicly today there is not much of a time line anymore for a deal. no breakthroughs in the iran talks. just negotiators breaking through the deadlines. first june 30th. then july 7th. now the end of the week. the white house indicated today, even that deadline is not a make or break date. >> and these conversations will go on as long as the president and his team perceive them to be useful because they are making progress in that direction. >> reporter: with multiple administration sources warning, there are major obstacles blocking a deal, the white house is no longer putting the agreement at 50/50. >> i'm not feeling like a betting man. >> reporter: perhaps it is

because iran negotiators are not hungering for a deal. my concern is that there will be a rope a dope sort of performance by iran and they will string out the negotiations. the white house has hopes that a deal to rein in the nuclear program could open up opportunities across the middle east. from syria where bashar al assad is propped up to yemen and the iran backed houthi rebels to the battle against isis where iran is a major player. critics of the president's middle east policy aren't buying it. >> what each of these growing threats has in common is a failure of deterrence brought on by a dangerous weakness and lack of resolve. >> i think even if we get the nuclear deal, we'll to have try contain iranian power. >> that's why the iran deal is so important. >> for all these batted thing that iran does iran would be

even more dangerous if they are armed with a nuclear weapon. >> reporter: if the white house fail to get an iran deal in the next 48 hours, congress will have 60 days instead of 30 days to review the agreement. the white house said it is okay with that extended review period even though it might be complicated for the president. they are noting that most lawmakers will not be spending the august recess pouring over the details of the deal. they aren't sweating it that much. >> thanks very much. joining me now, state department spokesman john kirby, thank you for coming on. a lot of issues to cover. and first i want to start with this idea of the deadline. i've been covering these talks for some time. there have been a lot of deadlines that have come and gone. is there a deadline in these talks? does the new friday deadline mean anything? >> we are in this round here. that's what we're focused on. this round of talks which we said we obviously were working toward the end of june to complete. we're in extra innings if you

will. right now in this particular round. this date of tenth is an extension of the parameters tunneled joint plan of action which allows the negotiators to stay at the table. we're taking this day by day, hour by hour. i can tell you secretary kerry's focus is much more on what's going on in that negotiating room than on the calendar. >> there's another possibility that we've been beginning to hear from folks involved in the talks but also senators who have been briefed on the talks. that is that there is even the possibility of living this friday deadline pass. just let the interim agreement continue on. and in effect say to the iranians, if you don't have an agreement by friday come back when you're serious about making concessions. is that a possible alternative right now to reaching an agreement by the end of the week? >> what i want to stay away from i'm athletic cals and speculating about what may or may not happen. i can tell you this extension to the 10th is to allow to us keep the negotiators in the room. we wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't progress being made

and if there weren't serious discussions being had. that's what we're talking about today. what we'll talk about tomorrow. and then we'll deal with things as they come later in the week. >> you've got to tell us what the plan b is. plan a has been pushed out so long to be fair. at this point, the fair question is what happens if you don't have an agreement by friday in. >> i don't want to engage in hypotheticals. our focus is trying to get the right deal for our national security interests. if a deal can't be reached, if secretary kerry can't help get to an agreement that makes sense and prevents iran from nuclear capability, he will walk away. the focus is on trying to get a right deal. a deal that is consistent with the agreement made in april. the basic parameters that were set. that's where their heads are. >> walking away from the table, a possibility. will you please stay with us? we have a lot more issues to

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welcome back. our top story. the pentagon makes the stunning admission that only a few dozen syrian rebels have been trained to fight isis and lawmaker are running out of patience. we're back with the spokesman, john kirby. secretary ash carter revealing today only 60 syrian fighters trained so far. the original goal was 5,400 in the first year. then reduced to about 3,000 by the end of this year. that's a pretty remarkable shortfall. isn't this a failure? this program to train syrian moderate rebels?

>> well i think you heard secretary carter speak to this today. when em it is not where they want it to be. i think they've been very open and candid about the challenges in this program. it doesn't mean the program isn't important or we don't need to pursue it. we need good capable partners on the ground. this is an effort to do that. >> how is this a credible first step in that direction? that's a 1% achievement on the goal of 5,400. you got about 60 at this point. about 100th of the original goal. how does that inspire confidence among our partners on the ground, for instance who are really begging for and u.s. coalition help? >> i think it speaks to the importance of doing this right. and not necessarily doing it fast. i'm not saying that the number isn't an issue. it is. and obviously, secretary carter spoke to that. they would like to have done more by now. i think all of cuss agree with that. but it does speak to the importance, the big job of getting this done right and not

getting it done fast. and certainly there are issues in terms of who you're bringing in and how you're vetting them and preparing them for the training that they're going to undergo. and there is a lot, it is very complex. it is an issue that will continue to take some time. it doesn't mean because you have such a small number, that it is a failure. let's keep in mine the number is small and much smaller than we would like is still an opposition trainees that have made it through that rigorous as it should be vetting process and are now in training. that's not something to just completely dismiss out of hand. >> you compare it to the 31,000 that the cia estimates you have in isis fighters on the ground. 60 is not, let's be fair. that's just not a reasonable step in light of the fact this program was announce ad year ago. >> i don't disagree the number is smaller than we would like and i'm not trying on sugar coat it. you can't just do it in whole numbers. you said 31,000. i think that's an estimate of

isil in iraq and syria and even if the program is working at its max, if some are 5,000 or more. could you still throw that argument back. 5,000 compared to 31,000. we're trying to focus on the quality. we're trying to get the vetting process right. this is something, while we're very good at, the american military is extraordinarily good at it is hard. it is really hard in this part of the world with these particular groups and we'll have to keep working at it. >> i want to get at the possibly of patience. the president urged patience yesterday. you're urging patience in this fight today. general dempsey today conceded being patient in the fight against isis could increase the risk here on the u.s. homeland. that's a fairly remarkable admission. isn't that exactly why the american public and the administration should not be patient in the fight against isis? >> i think strategic patience is something that we long said you need against a group like isil. the issue is sustainability here. yes. could you infuse a bunch more

american talent in this quickly and have a more, a speedy more of a tactical effect on the ground? yes, you could. you can't sustain that over time. theon way that this group gets defeated, completely over a sustained period of time is by doing it through indigenous forces on the ground. that means you have to have good fighters in iraq, good fighters in syria. the other thing is you have to have good governance. you have to take away the conditions through which a group like isil can fester and grow and recruit and prosper. that will be done through good governance. in iraq and syria. so this will be a long term fight. when we defeat them, we want them to stay defeated. it has to be sustainable and it can't be if you just fix it with money resources and troops. >> i think expected to take years. i want to move to another topic. general holder said edward snowden's leaks in his words, spurred a necessary debate and

also mentioned the possibility of some sort of plea deal to bring him back here. we are aware cnn of negotiations going on between the department of justice and snowden's lawyers. i want to ask you. is the state department open to a plea deal that brings edward snowden back to the u.s. from russia? >> i won't speak to things the justice department may or may not be doing here. our position remains the same. this man violated national security. he put national security at risk through his actions and he needs to come back and face justice. that's where we are today. >> i don't want to get into the doj issue but this is an issue between nations here. the u.s. and russia. russia is currently where edward snowden is hiding from u.s. law. and i'm curious works the state department, secretary kerry oppose a deal that brings him back with some sort of reduced sentence? they're talking about three to five years, a trial, et cetera. >> i don't want to get into

hypotheticals. what secretary kerry wants is for this man to face justice. >> i should note the defense department said if he would return, it would involve a trial and it would involve a jail sentence. i want to call admiral kirby, former admiral kirby, thank you for joining us from the state department. just ahead, an f-16 jet fighter slams into a civilian plane in the skies over south carolina. raining debris over a wide area. what went wrong? and our cnn exclusive. hillary clinton in her first national interview as a 2016 candidate. we talked about her republican rivals and lashes out over donald trump's remarks on immigrants. stay with us. ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy.

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breaking now, the defense secretary saying only 60 syrian rebels have been trained to fight isis. 60 out of an original goal of up to 5,000 per year. i'm joined by republican congressman adam who served in both iraq and afghanistan. you heard from the defense secretary today saying only 60 syrian fighters trained so far. the original goal was 5,400. then reduced to 3,000 by the end of this year. is this program anything else but a failure in your view? >> it seems like that so far. we voted on this. i guess it seems like a year

ago. probably about eight or nine months ago. it was controversial here on capitol hill. we passed this idea of training the moderate syrian rebels which there are moderate years ayalian rebels in syria that want to destroy bashar al assad and destroy isis because that doesn't represent the country they want to work in. to hear that it's 60 i had to read it a number of times, blew me away. that's a couple of platoons of men. without saying that won't be enough to destroy isis or even hold a small ridge is of 100 people from isis. >> this is what we hear from the defense department a lot of the recruits, they don't want to fight isis. they want to fight bashar al assad. >> i think there's some truth to that. when it comes to having a moderate opposition, the key will be holding territory. in some cases that may be holding territory from assad

forces or holding territory from isis forces. the purpose is to take back the country of syria. and you know look. you can't say that these folks that were raised let's say you're 30 years old. your dad may have been killed by bashar al assad. your family has been brutalized by him. no western power will come in and say, you can't fight him. the only people you can fight are the people we are an enemy with. they hate isis. they don't like isis. they also don't like bashar al assad who is the incubator of this problem in the first place. >> let me ask you, the president reiterates that it has to be local ground forces in iraq. the kurds, syrian rebels who have taken hold territory. we don't see that in iraq. the maps look largely the same. some progress in the northern part of syria by local kurds there. in your view since the local forces, since it is not delivering results, do you believe you have to put more u.s. troops on the ground to lead the way? >> i don't think we need u.s. troops to occupy territory. what i have said and this is

part of what did i in iraq. special forces. like what we saw in syria that we celebrated. it was a big victory for us. special forces that can go in and take out key figures. get their info. go out and take ten that that guy led to. ten they led to. so being involved in that decapitation process of isis in syria is important. when it comes to holding ground even arab forces cannot hold all the ground in syria. you think about jordan. jordan is the size of illinois without the city of chicago. 6 million people. so the idea that jordan can move their troops in for instance, and occupy syria, it is not realistic. you have to have a moderate rebel force and 60 just ain't going to cut it. >> the new buzz word from the administration seems to be patience. strategic patience. it will take time. we heard general dempsey today conceding in his words that being patient on isis could increase the risk from isis on the u.s. homeland. what is your reaction to that?

that's a remarkable concession to a group that the president acknowledge is a direct threat to the u.s. >> it is absolutely true. the president has to lay out and say we have to destroy this group. not only in the medium term planning attacks against local governments as we've seen. probably against some american assets in that area. in the long term they want to strike the american homeland. we know al qaeda does and there's an affiliation there. at the end of the day, this is something that will have to be destroyed and dealt with. every day that goes by that isis occupies territory, the recruiting from that territory, they're killing people which we see all too tragically and they're digging in. they're putting their ieds out and they're developing a form of governance. we think of water towers and roads. isis thinks of brutal shari'a law. like how the taliban ran afghanistan. they weren't building schools. they weren't building water towers. but they stayed in until an outside force came in and kicked

them out. >> the thanks vex for joining us from the hill. coming up new details of a deadly collision of an air force fighter sgret a civilian plane. plus hillary clinton talking exclusively to cnn in her first national tv interview of the 2016 campaign. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security. we're ready. are you?

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welcome back. a cnn exclusive. hillary clinton's first national tv interview of her 2016 campaign. a wide ranging conversation with the presidential candidate, talking about rivals from both parties controversies surrounding her e-mail and the clinton foundation and much more. clinton sat down with cnn correspondent in iowa a short time ago. you asked hillary clinton to respond to donald trump's recent controversial comments to say the least. it seems the word was disappointed. what did she tell you? >> reporter: she criticized donald trump a lot but what she also did was she went on to lump all republicans into the same category when it comes to immigration reform into the same category as donald trump. take a listen. >> donald trump is creating quite a lot of commotion on the other side. he is a friend of yours, has been over the years. he donated to your senate campaign, to the clinton

foundation. what is your reaction to his recent comments that some mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals? >> i'm very disappointed in those comments. and i feel very bad and very disappointed with him and with the republican party for not responding immediately and saying enough. stop it. but they are all in the same general area on immigration. they don't want to provide a path to citizenship. they range across a spectrum of being either grudgingly welcome or hostile toward immigrants. and i'm going to talk about comprehensive immigration reform. i'm going to talk about all the good law-abiding productive members of the immigrant communicate that i know that i've met over the course of my life. i would like to see have a path

to citizenship. >> reporter: hillary clinton has been noticeably aligned with hispanic vote orders this issue, saying she is for a full path to citizenship. and really you can see this fault like that she is creating here for the general election. that she is basically going to say to republicans if you aren't, then i am going to make that very obvious. now, jeb bush i should say very quick to put out a statement in response to what she said about him. he accuses hillary clinton of flip flopping on this. of running more to the center on immigration before and now being more liberal. specifically highlighting her comments last summer during the border crisis that children who are coming over the border should be sent back to their home countries. >> speaking of flip-flop, trust is an issue in polls, national polls you see in it swing states and early primary states. did she have a good answer to the trust question? >> reporter: she really

deflected questions when it came to trust. she's been dogged by controversies that even many democrats who want her, want to see her in the white house have said have been self-inflicted. her e-mail situation at the state department. clinton foundation donations. when i asked her about these things, she did not take responsibility for what we have seen recently. this erosion of belief that she is trust worthy and honest from many americans. here's what she said. do you see any role that you've had in this sentiment that we've seen where people are questioning whether you're trustworthy? >> i can only tell you that this has been a theme that has been used against me and my husband for many many years. and at the end of the day, i think voters sort it all out. i have great confidence. i trust the american voter. so i trust the american voter 100%. because i think the american

voter will weigh these kinds of accusations. i mean peel write books filled with unsubstantiated attacks against us and even admit they have no evidence. of course it is your job to cover it so of course that will raise questions in people's minds. during the course of the campaign, as in my two prior campaigns and in my other years of service, i have a lot of confidence that the american people can sort it all out. >> would you vote for someone that you don't trust? >> well people should and do trust me. and i have every confidence that will be the outcome of this election. i cannot decide what the attacks on me will be no matter how unfounded. >> reporter: and to her point, jill it is interesting. when you look at polls among voters, i should say caucusgoers in iowa her trust numbers are much higher. you have nearly 6 in 10 doubting

her trustworthiness. here you have about three and four that. who think she is trustworthy. >> i want to ask you about the state department e-mail controversy. this is another issue she tried to put on republicans. the fact is she has critics on issues from both sides of the aisle. did she deflect on that question of e-mails? did she give you a direct answer? >> reporter: well, sort of in her favor i would say when it come to e-mails, it had not been updated to the times when it came to how you would pre serve e-mail at the state department in the administration. now, that. what she seem to be saying is not really laying out a lightning of whether what she did was completely proper or if there wasn't some appearance of impropriety. her line in this is that she did not break the law. listen.

>> you're starting with so many assumptions. i've never had a scene that. a let's take a deem breath. everything did i was permitted by law and regulation. i had one device. when i mailed anybody in the government, it would go into the government system. now, i didn't have to turn over anything. i chose to turn over 55,000 pages. >> reporter: now, keeping in mind a lot of observers feel that she may have violated certainly the spirit of the law when it comes to e-mail preservation. so this is an issue that she will continue to be dealing with in the weeks ahead. we also learned from hillary clinton today, she'll be unveiling some economic policy proposals on monday in a speech. so we are staying tuned to see what her message is on that. the issue, the economy that democrats think is going to define the 2016 election. >> that's one she wouldn't answer you on. the tax issue. she deflected on that.

>> reporter: she's waiting to reveal that. >> exactly. exactly. under her terms, of course. we want to bring in gloria borger and cnn analyst juan brownstein. joining us from los angeles. gloria, you heard hillary clinton addressing this question of why she struggles with trust worthiness and she did deflect to republicans. you saw it. this constant barrage of attacks from the right. something that's gone on for two decades. people attack her and her husband. it is familiar echoes of vast right wing conspiracies. >> a very similar refrain. i'm not surprised that she is using it. she is running in a democratic primary contest. what unites democrats is saying look what the republicans are doing to us. and of course iowa democrats, very liberal. she's going to go to new hampshire. she wants to appeal to independents. so she is flipping it around. she said that's fine. i get it. this is being used by

republicans. kind of saying i know they're going to do this to me. and we just got an e-mail blast from reince priebus, the head of the republican national committee. and he basically said that she is unwilling to shoot straight. she is refusing to take responsibility for her own actions. so you see the ping pong ball. >> and how important is that to the republican arsenal in terms of trying to take her down, the trust issue? >> a good question. obviously any politician would rather be trusted than not. the evidence historically is that trust is not usually the decisive factor in how voters assess the candidates. in 1996 on the day bill clinton was reelected, in the exit poll a majority of americans said they did not consider him honest and trustworthy and yet they voted for him any way. he won by 8 points. other attributes empathy, ideology ultimately matter more.

that's why i think you saw hillary clinton making the argument today. in excellent interview that people can trust me to fight for them. that is the hurdle she has to get over to convince people who understands their problems and has solutions to them. more than reversing the views. >> i think that's the key, ron, which is can she become relatable and empathetic and convince people that she understands their issues. because don't forget nobody trusts politicians these days. if she can cross that hurdle which was always an asset for president obama. >> another issue is the challenge from bernie sanders drawing crowds of 10,000 sometimes bigger crowds than she's drawn. how did she answer the challenge

from sanders, the challenge from the left which is a tough one for her to take. viewing herself as a progressive through all these years. >> reporter: she seemed to say she would let him play his game and she would play her game. she was saying what she learn last time was that she did not organize well in the first caucus in the nation state of iowa. so you saw today, people will be caucusgoers who are supporters from different precincts. she was trying to demonstrate that she has more of that organizational muscle. what i think is fascinating even though bernie sanders is having this surge, he is still very much behind hillary clinton including in iowa. we should say, he is the self-described democratic socialist. and still, he is someone that is appealing to so many democrats. she did not really get into that. i think at this point she said she is going on play her own game. >> i want to get to gloria and

ron. a very simple question. could hillary clinton lose iowa to bernie sanders? >> sure. of course. it is under likely because i think what people who to go caucuses and vote in primaries think of another thing. they think of electability. if you're a liberal democrat and you want to make sure that a democrat wins the white house, something you're going to consider in the back of your mind is can this person beat a republican? if he is a self-described democratic socialist, that's kind of tough. >> in a word can she lose iowa to bernie sanders? >> she could but i also think it is unlikely. he is different in style. he fits in a lineage that goes back. all of whom appeal mostly to white upper middle class social liberals. there are a lot of those voters in iowa. even more in new hampshire. that's the point of greatest risk for a candidate like clinton. once she gets past those and you get to the minority voters

coming in in big states. the risk goes down. but iowa and new hampshire she has to get through. >> fantastic interview. revealing better view with secretary clinton. thank you very much. just this programming note. a deadly mid air crash between an air force fighter jet and a small plane. me details tonight and we'll have more after this break. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep them all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberyy apple scones smell about done. ahh, you're good. i like to bake. with at&t get up to $400 dollars in total savings on tools to manage your business.

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we've just received confirmation that two people have been killed in a collision between an air force f-16 fighter jet and a private plane over south carolina. ra rene marsh is working the store. >> a fighter jet and small jet cessna should not be on a course to allow them to collide, that goes without saying but happened 11 11 miles north of charleston south carolina. the pilot safely effected taken to a hospital and is expected to be okay but the cessna was broken into pieces some of the wreckage on land some in a river, both people on board the private plane died according to the ntsb. take a listen to a woman who witnessed all of this right before her eyes. >> i just seen one plane coming this way, one going this way and then exploded in midair and fire ball and then the plane landed

in my yard. >> and she got very emotional because again she saw that all unfold. we do know that an ntsb investigator is on the way as we speak. some critical questions remain unanswered. were both aircraft authorized to be in the air space? were the pilots talking to air traffic control? were air traffic controllers talking to them and did the pilot of that cessna get a traffic advisory warning that that f-16 was in the area? all critical in understanding how this deadly midair collision happened. we should point out, this is incredibly rare. you don't see this sort of thing happening often. this was a clear break down in the air safety system. >> yeah sad one, as well. thanks very much to rene marsh. we want to dig deeper with ntsb manager peter goals and analyst and pilot himself, miles, i want to start with you.

you've flown these small planes, cessnas, i've flown them as well. i can't think of a bigger sharper contrast between this 50 60-year-old plane and state of the art f-16. how does this happen? >> the 100 horsepower 150, the first plane i ever flew versus the super sonic f 15 they shouldn't be near one another. you have the f-16 practicing bad weather approaches to charleston an approach that takes that aircraft over that small air field, berkeley county where that 150 took off from. the f-16 is a low-wing plane. the 150, the cessna is a high-wing plane. a high wing plane climbing and low-wing plane descending there is a lot of accidents over the years because of that. here is the real question that f-16 pilot would have been communicating with charleston approached controllers as he conducted this practice instrument approach. what did they tell the f-16 pilot about possible traffic in the area?

did they see a transponder hit? the f-16 using a chance ponder? the pilot even though practicing a bad weather approach, it is his responsibility to keep his eyes out the window and fly by visual flight rules, even though he's practicing bad weather procedures. >> incredible the instruments at the end of the day you have to use your highs to look out the window. these two planes two different systems, one military, one civilian civilian would they have any capability of seeing the other on radar transponder? >> miles touched on a key point, did the 150 which is a basic aircraft trainer in many cases, did he turn on his transponder? did he follow a flight plan? he in communication with air traffic controllers? there is no requirement that he had to have a transponder on which would have made him invisible virtually to the f-16. >> that's an interesting point about turning it on because that

came up during mh 370. shouldn't that be automatic so everyone can see everyone when you're close to the airports? >> the rules are pretty open in a place like that. that air space is not as controlled as it would be if you get closer to charleston. interestingly, the f-16 is equipped with a radar capable of identifying all kinds of aircraft that do not have their transponders on. after all, bad guys don't put transponders on but this may have been a pilot not with that system on as he was busy practicing this instrument approach. if the transponder was off, they may not have seen the smaller primary target and f-16 busy flying the approach. it's a horrible conflew wednesday of events. most of these the crashes are a series of events like that. >> thanks very much for helping clear that up. sad story, no question. thanks very much for watching tonight. i'm jim sciutto in the situation room. you can follow us on twitter at

cnn sit room. be sure to watch erin burnet out front. it starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com "outfront" tonight, breaking news a man in the united states illegally pleads not guilty to murdering a young woman in san francisco. what happens next? is donald trump employing a non-documented worker and more breaking news subway dropping jared fogle after feds seize computers. what were they looking for and what did they find? let's go "outfront".." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" breaking news an undocumented mexican immigrant pleaded not guilty to murder.