Skip to main content

tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 12, 2015 10:00am-11:01am PDT

10:00 am
>> we need somebody who can fight and win. he's somebody who has won and when you're wearing a bullet proof vest to work, you're fighting >> two words? >> i would say marco rubio. that's what i would say. >> brianna, mike, ana, dan, thank you so much for coming this morning. thanks for spending your sunday morning with us. jake tapper will be right here next week. "fareed zakaria gps" starts right now. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fra read zakaria coming to you live from new york. it's been a tumultuous week on the world stage and we'll tackle all of it. 23r eenna, tense negotiations over iran's fluke clear program.
10:01 am
from brussels tough talk about greece's debt problem. and in beijing, grave concerns over a stock market crash and what it means for the future of china. and then for something completely different, there's nothing like a dame. especially dame helen mirren. i spoke to the legendary actress about playing the queen, the queen on stage and screen. >> we'll get to all of the news in a moment. but first here's my take. you might have missed it but a meeting this past tuesday near pakistan's capital city of islamabad could possibly mark the beginning of the end of america's longest war. the conflict in afghanistan
10:02 am
which will enter its 15th year this fall. a delegation from the afghan government met with members of the taliban with pakistani, chinese and u.s. officials present as observers. previous efforts like this one have floundered and this one may go nowhere as well but the war in afghanistan is likely going to end in a forum like this one and not on the battlefield. talking to the taliban is tough for many americans to accept. dick cheney was speaking for many when he said we don't negotiate with evil. we defeat it. and yet, says jonathan powell tony blair's former chief of staff, he's dead wrong. in a new book "terrorists at the table why negotiating the is the only way to peace," powell argues forcefully that historical conflicts like the one in afghanistan have ended only through negotiations and not military victory. powell is no peace nik having
10:03 am
been an architect of britain's support for the wars in pakistan and iraq. but over the course of his decade in office as one of blair's most important aides, powell came to recognize that terrorism cannot be solved exclusively or largely by military means. he quotes hugh ord, the former chief constable in northern ireland who says that there is no example that i know of terrorism being policed out or eliminated through the use of force. now, governments are loath to talk to terrorists. that's understandable since they regard the groups as barbaric worry about legitimizing brutality and remain convinced that military force can defeat or at least cripple them. but powell points out most governments end up talking to terrorists anyway. citing examples ranging from the mau mau in kenya to the basques in spain to the colombian farc. the central idea behind powell's argumenting is simple enough. terrorism is a reflection of an
10:04 am
underlying political problem that almost always needs to be addressed politically. in afghanistan, for example it reflects the reality that some part of the pashtun population which is about 50% of the country believes that its interests are not represented by the current government in kabul. now, this week's negotiations might go nowhere. but one of the lessons that powell notes in the book is that often these talks begin too late because governments believe that one last military push will put the terrorists on the defensive even though he says there is precious little empirical evidence to support this one last heave argument. he reminds us that a crucial part of general david petraeus's surge in iraq was reaching out to sunni militants, terrorists who had been fighting american forces addressing their grievances and indeed paying them to move from being foes to friends. he notes that petraeus admitted
10:05 am
that the united states waited too long before it talked to people who had "american blood on their hands." of course, none of this would apply to isis would it? in fact jonathan powell is bold enough to suggest that it could. after all, isis is a particularly brutal and murder royce group, but it is successful largely because it has tapped into the fears and rage of disempowered sunnis in iraq and syria. that is a political grievance that can only be addressed politically. talking to terrorists is not giving into their demands, argues powell. but because governments are so spooked by the image and the optics of it all, they usually delay, fumble make mistakes and prolong conflicts that could be resolved earlier and with much less blood shed on all sides. for more go to cnn.com
10:06 am
clash/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week and let's get starred. >> today was supposed to be the day that all european leaders merkel, hollande cameron and all met in brussells. the agenda was to vote yea or nay or a new bailout deal for greece. just hours ago, the meeting was scrapped because the financeman ministers who work for those leaders could not find common ground. instead a smaller subset of leaders from the europe zone nations is set to start meeting this hour. the word today out of brussels is that many european firms believe the latest proposal doesn't go far enough. so will greece get kicked out of the euro? should it be. joining me here in new york to discusses are ken rogoff from harvard, also time's assistant
10:07 am
managing editor and cnn's global economics analyst and in london is zani meadows, editor-in-chief of the economist. zanny, the economist has a lead editorial saying to stay in the eurozone can greece's prime minister will the have to jettisoned almost every promise he made to his voters. can you hear me? >> fareed i'm sorry i can't hear you. >> we'll go to rona and ken while they're fixing the mic issues. ronna, it always seemed as those germany at the end of the day was willing to bay out greece that it pushed hard. it did -- it really made it look like it was trying its damndest. but every time it stared at the abyss, it pulled back and told the european central bank provide the funds.
10:08 am
it wrote the checks. this time seems different. >> this time is different. you're right that it seed like germany's leaders were really working to make a deal but if you spend any time in germany, you see the public at large really never wanted the deal with greece. the german public i think feels like let them go. we're better off without them. they never believed the greeks were good for their word. this has become a political problem more than an economic problem. the greeks have said fine we'll leave. they've got a socialist government. you've got tremendous populism. the germans think everyone should it be more german. i don't think the math, would on that but you can understand their point of view. >> zani what i was going to ask you was you had an editorial just before greece made its proposals where you said to stay in the euro zoerngs greece's prime minister will have to jettisoned almost every promise
10:09 am
he made to his voters. he sort of did in the plan that he put forward and yet it doesn't seem to be working. what do you think is going on? >> well, i think as rana said this has moved into politics. let's recap. a week ago the greek people said absolutely decisively no to an agreement or to a set of measures that the creditors depended of them. then four days five days later, tsipras, the greek prime minister agrees to exactly those demands with the approval of the greek parliament and now particularly amongst it the northern european creditors, there's a question of can we trust this guy. they're fed up with him. whatever the rights and wrongs the actual measures they want the greeks to take there are a large number of people in northern europe in particular who essentially think grexit is better. there are other countries, france and italy particularly very, very keen to keep them in.
10:10 am
and the really important person at the meeting about be angela merkel. her finance minister wants the greeks out and talking about a temporary grexit. you can be probably cut the word temporary there. it will be temporary at least officially so no one has to deal with the consequences of how you deal with the losses if you push them out permanently. so he wants that. she is undecided. i think she will in the end want to keep them in. she doesn't want to be the chancellor who presides over the breakup of the euro. it's getting very politically difficult for her. her electorate is the increase lig against keeping greece in. it's a very tough political thing. what they have to hammer out for the greeks to stay in the greeks will have to do even more than they were offering a lot of actions up front to try and rebuild trust and i suspect the program if they negotiate it will be much, much tougher than anything on the table before.
10:11 am
>> ken, paul krugman and some others say this is a recipe for total disaster that is more austerity is going to plunge greece into a depression that this is kind of -- this is austerity on steroids and it's bad for europe it's bad for the world. >> let's start with the this referendum and what tsipras did which paul krugman urged them to do was taking the country off a cliff. it was very irresponsible. and on top of that, they spit in the germans' face. they were being offered money. they should have taken it and after they had taken the money, then they ask to renegotiate. you don't default on a debt when somebody's still giving you money. a very important thing to understand about the austerity, there are many mistakes. certainly the debt should have been written down across the euro zone right away. but in greece you could have torn up all their debt and they still had to close a 10% gap of
10:12 am
gdp in their deficit. that's like $1.7 trillion in the united states. imagine if we had to do half of that. and most of the austerity earth they felt has been that they had a credit card when the world markets saw that they were fracture u lent with their books, this he lied about their debt lied about their deficit. it got cut off. the creditors, official creditors came in and they definitely cushioned the blow but it was very hard to pay that kind of money. they have wrapped up a huge bill. it does need to be written down but most of the changes have to come from within inside greece. they to want to become a modern european state. >> we have 90 seconds before the break. can a appear or permanent grexit work or is this another lehman like moment? >> i don't think it's a lehman-like moment in the sense a lot of private creditors have gotten out of greece.
10:13 am
greece is a small country. china create anew greece every six weeks. it threatens the political integrity of the european experiment. one falling out, what's 9 future for portugal spain, italy? i think it creates a slow burn problem because there needs to be real' political integration that isn't there yet. >> when we come back doesn't this mess in europe make america's crisis management look even stronger? we'll talk about that in a moment. this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. (water splashing) (birds chirping)
10:14 am
are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now... to what it needs to become.
10:15 am
guys, it's just the two of you. the setting is just right. but here's the thing, about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. and you only take it when you need it. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for
10:16 am
an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra. when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
10:17 am
and we are backing with rana ken and zanni minton meadows from london. enough about them. now what about us?
10:18 am
ken, what does this tell you about crisis management? it does seem as though the bush and obama administrations give credit to hank paulson and tim geithner and ben bernanke. handled a similar kind of crisis better in a way that it was resolved quickly and early. >> yeah i mean let's remember we have puerto rico going on here at the same time. but yeah when greece appeared it was clear they were not going to grow their way out of it. their dent was too high. they were cut off from the from world markets. they should have written it down. it would have been very painful and tough with the german voter who's would have gotten it over with. instead, they keep leaving them in this never neverland where they're cut off from markets because the debt hasn't been written down enough. they're dribbling out money to them which keeps them better off but the economy is crippled. so you move quickly. but what did they do? they made very optimistic projections. everybody did it, the imf, the
10:19 am
europeans. they said they'll grow their way back. that was not a healthy development. >> fundamentally, zani isn't the problem that the united states has the capacity to bankroll its weak performing members in a way that europe doesn't? the economist has a wonderful comparison where it pointed out forget about the germans bankrolling the greeks. connecticut bankrolls the weaker states in america. i'm assuming mississippi, alabama those kind of states much more 5% of connecticut's gdp over the last 20 years has been net income transfers to states like mississippi and alabama. >> yeah i mean that's because the u.s. has a much more fiscally integrated system. it's where the europeans are going to have to end up at some point. they created a single currency without creating the fiscal integration that was necessary for that to survive.
10:20 am
i think the difference now, the europeans are absolutely champions at kicking the can down the road. what they've done with greece, ken be absolutely right. they should have written the debt down in 2010. instead they kicked the can down. now this is not a systemic immediate problem to europe in the way it was a few years ago. if greece goes out of the euro now, it it will not wreck the euro overnight. it will introduce a kind of corrosive be uncertainty that at some point will become a real problem again because there's a fundamental tension in the euro. it's supposed to be irrevocable. once you join it, you're there for good. it's supposed to be based on rules and discipline. the way this greece drama ends if it ever ends will determine which of those things is more important. >> fundamentally, there's the problem that ken has talked about which is the lack of competitiveness in greece. is europe strong enough to be able to carry this kind of -- forget greece.
10:21 am
there are other countries that are uncompetitive. part of the issue is europe hasn't done much structural reform in the last ten years. >> i think the core of europe germany at the center is very strong. the germans are incredibly competitive. the french could be more competitive by making moves that would be relatively easy. europe needs a hank paulson. there needs to be one integrated policy and wealth transfers. that's a deep question. it goes to all the cultural differences between this group of nations. it's a huge issue that as zanny said europe has been kicking down the road at every possible juncture. i do think if greece goes out and there's a fundamental insecurity about what is this currency going to be that's going to come to a head. >> let's balance it the other way with if suddenly merkel says we're writing all the debt
10:22 am
portugal spain, which i favor we might have german exit gerxit. that's a big danger hanging over if you go too far in the other direction. >> zanny, all this means the u.s. looks better. the dollar remains stronger. at the end of the day, would it be fair to say that you know we're back to that single engine world economy where the united states continues to power along? >> well, the u.s. is looking stronger, yes, but actually let's put this greek thing in the short term. finally the european central bank suddenly realized needed to boost the european economy more. they have gotten off austerity kick they were pushing so hard. so the european economy although certainly not great, i think it's actually not that bad. and is in many ways things are improving. the fact that the european politicians are so willing to go
10:23 am
this far on greece is testament to their general confidence that they can handle the fallout. in the long-term it would have very big consequences but in the shorter term i actually an think things are not so bad over here right now. >> very quick thoughts. 30 seconds. would you agree with that that at the end of the day, you know things are looking better? >> yeah absolutely. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. and they could handle a grexit. on the other hand the political fallout is very unpredictable. >> economics looking better than politics. he worry more what does this mean for people like putin? can other nations stir up more trouble if europe is perceived as being unable to get its own house in order. >> i love the line china create anew greece every six weeks to put that in perspective. next on gps, the greek talks aren't the only ones going down to the wire. the west negotiations with iran over its nuclear program was supposed to have been wrapped up almost two weeks ago.
10:24 am
three deadlines have been passed. the next deadline is tomorrow. will they make it or will it be a european kick the can down the road? find out when we come back. motrin helps you be an unstoppable, i-can-totally-do-this- all-in-one-trip kind of woman. when pain tries to stop you, there's motrin. motrin works fast to stop pain where it starts. make it happen with new motrin liquid gels. across america, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. and the needle is thin. victoza is not for weight loss but it may help you lose some weight. victoza is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. it is not recommended as the first medication
10:25 am
to treat diabetes and should not be used in people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. victoza has not been studied with mealtime insulin. victoza is not insulin. do not take victoza if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza or any of its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction may include swelling of face lips, tongue or throat fainting or dizziness, very rapid heartbeat problems breathing or swallowing, severe rash or itching. tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. serious side effects may happen in people who take victoza including inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis) which may be fatal. stop taking victoza and call your doctor right away if you have signs of pancreatitis, such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions.
10:26 am
taking victoza with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need... ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza. it's covered by most health plans.
10:27 am
10:28 am
secretary of state john kerry described his mind-set this morning regarding the talks with iran over its nuclear program. tomorrow marks the deadline for the talks, but three deadlines have already slipped by. is there really hope this time? let's bring in my panel, an expert on proliferation and nuclear weapons policy president of the plowing shares fund and the author of nuclear nightmares and kareem is one of the world's top experts on iran. he is a senior associate at carnegie endowment for international peace. joe, you are very plugged in. what are you hearing about the likelihood of a deal? >> it's almost certain. this deal is coming. the climax will likely be tomorrow. if it doesn't happen now, we'll have a serious case of negotiations interrupted. it's a complicated document about 100 pranls. they're in the final stages making sure the phrases are right, the commas are in the
10:29 am
right place. they don't want any mistakes and there are still a couple of major issues yet unresolved but most of the serious big issues that have blocked the deal they've all been settled. >> inspections of military facilities will be allowed? >> we are going to have inspections of iranian military facilities. they've crafted a way to do this with a little notice a little bit of management of the inspectors as they go in but we'll be able to go where we need to go when we need to go there. >> the sanctions will be lifted not all at once but sequentially. >> this is holding up the negotiations. what does iran have to do and what exactly is lifted particularly on the difficult issue of the arms embargo prohibiting them going in or out of iran. down the road as iran performs those restraints will be taken off. >> iran's ballistic mile of program unrelated to its nuclear program, they say the embargo should be lifted.
10:30 am
>> everything i hear is the sanctions will remain on the ballistic program as they will for terrorism and human rights violations. so not all of the issues with iran are settled. this is just the one on the nuclear deal to shrink wrap this program, shrink it down to a manageable size and wrap it in a monitoring system. >> bottom line people say that iran is currently two months away from breakout the capacity to make a weapon. the deal will take it to 13 months or so. there are critics, alan cooperman who say the deal will only extend it by one month. your judgment we can't get into the technical details. do you believe the deal as you understand it does in fact take iran from two months away from a bomb to 13 months away from a bomb? >> without a doubt, this lengthens the breakout time. it will take them at least a year to make the material for one weapon and then many months after that to actually fashion it into a weapon. so this gives us ample warning time to take actions should iran
10:31 am
try to creep out, sneak out or break out of this agreement. >> kareem explain what's going on in the negotiations? because i notice that zarif, the foreign minister of iran keeps having to go back to tehran. kerry doesn't keep back to washington. that suggests to me that the iranians are having difficulty coming to yes. the supreme leader made statements saying no military no inspection of military facilities at all. all sanctions will have to be lifted immediately. this is an odd way to prepare your public for the deal because those things aren't going to happen. what is going on inside iran? >> this is a difficult time for iran's supreme leader fareed because he basically has to reconcile the ideological prerogatives of the islamic republic which is always based on resistance against the united states with economic needs of the naks. this is a country experiencing a perfect storm economically because they're losing hundreds
10:32 am
of billions of dollars as a result of sanctions at a time when oil prices have collapsed and they're spending billions of dollars each month trying to sustain the assad regime in syria. as joe said the deal is likely going to happen but i think it's a very bitter pill for the supreme leader to swallow. >> what i wonder is the supreme leader supreme? wilwhich i mean is he really ultimately does he have the kind of authority that may tse-tung had when he brought china in from the cold and made peace with america? yeah there were a lot of people in china who didn't want to do it but it didn't matter. he was mao. does the supreme leader have that kind of authority or is he juggling the revolutionary guard on one side, rowhani and the liberal faction on the other? >> we have to be humble of our knowledge of the iranian regime. i would say the supreme leader certainly has control over the
10:33 am
main institutions in iran. you talked about the revolutionary guards. they oversee the nuclear program. all of the statements from senior revolutionary guard commanders have been very ob seek we cannious to the supreme leader. so it's my sense that he may not be as powerful as mao. he's not at absolute dictator but now the second longest serving autocrat in the middle east after the sultan of oman. there's a reason why that's so. he's ideological but he's also pragmatic. at the end of the day, what's paramount for him is his own survival and the survival of the system. they reached a point where this deal is an economic necessity. >> direct they say if the deal does take place, iran gets access to lots of money, tens of billions of dollars. it could become more active in its foreign policy some of which is very anti-american.
10:34 am
do you worry that the deal will unleash a more activist of anti-american be iran or could it be the beginning of a genuine reproachment with the united states? >> i think 2500 years of persian civilization makes me hopeful that this current kind of isolated iran which is a pariah state is anomaly of history angieand geography geography. on the other hand, 26 years of the republic makes me sober. there is valid hope in time it could have transformed iran but there is also valid concern it could empower hard line forces in the short term. >> fantastic discussion. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> up next china's markets have lost nearly $4 trillion in less thannen 30 days. what this mean for future of china when we come back. gs a new look. a chance to try something different. this summer, 30 days. what this mean for future of china when we come back. 30 days. what this mean for future of china when we come back. 30 days. what this mean for future of china when we come back. for yourself.
10:35 am
♪ ♪ take advantage of our summer offers. the 2015 cadillac srx, a crossover with space safety, and style. lease this from around $339 per month. ♪ ♪
10:36 am
10:37 am
10:38 am
10:39 am
now for our what in the world segment. while greece's showdown with the eu has been grabbing headlines, i wonder if we will look back and see china's stock market crash as ultimately more significant. since mid-june china's shanghai index plummeted 25%. the shenzhen index compared to the nasdaq is down over 35%. all together china's markets have lost nearly $3.6 trillion since their mid-june peak. that's slightly less than the value of britain's entire stock market. lost in just under a month. according to the bespoke investment group. the shanghai index looks eerily similar to the dow jones industrial average near the beginning of the great depression as bloomberg points out. the chinese government is taking extraordinary measures to stop the bleeding. it got the country's big
10:40 am
brokerage firms to promise to buy billions of dollars in stocks to restore confidence. new initial public offerings were curtailed this week and many existing stocks stopped trading. at one point, more than half of china's companies on the shanghai and shenzhen exchanges stopped trading their shares. now it's been pointed out that thing might not be as bad as they seem. china's stock market is a small part of its economy compared to other nations. only 5 to 10% of china's households have stocks compareded to about 50% in the u.s. according to the research firm. and before the crash started in mid-june chinese stocks had enjoyed a meteoric rise. at the end of the day the shanghai index is still up around 90% over last year but what's worrying about this mark plunge is the chinese government's handling of the situation. instead of letting stock prices correct themselves observers
10:41 am
say, the government is micromanaging the market. china's intervention has screamed of panic, said the economist. the government's efforts are a ridiculous overreaction said the guardian. why is beijing's response to the crash so aggressive? maybe because its reputation and ultimately its grip on power are at stake. as the economist has pointed out, the stock market boom was one of the positives the government could the point to when making the case for its stewardship of the economy. beijing encouraged ordinary citizens to get in on the boom as other parts of the economy like real estate real estate were slowing down. helping to spur massive speculation. nearly 90 million people now own stocks. there have been up to 1.4 million new investors per week according to the guardian. many of them are novices. two-thirds of new investors don't have a high school degree as morgan stanley pointed out in
10:42 am
"the wall street journal." even url farmers have established their own stock exchanges, he says. now, many are losing their life savings. whether the government fails or succeeds it seems to create problems. obviously, if. the fall continues, china's communist party loses a crucial element of its legitimacy it's much vaulted and until now well deserved reputation for economic competent and good management. but if the intervention succeeds it might well arrest the plans in beijing to transform the chinese economy into a more market oriented one keeping in place instead the state controls and commands that run throughout the chinese economy. and that make it a difficult and troubling economic player on the global scene. so watch greece but keep your eye on china, as well. up next the queen of england, well not the actual one but a great proxy.
10:43 am
dame helen mirren has just come off her third run playing elizabeth ii. stay tuned for a great discussion about getting into character and the future of the monarchy. ncert- like-it's-1999 kind of mom. when pain tries to stop you, there's motrin. motrin works fast to stop pain where it starts. make it happen with new motrin liquid gels.
10:44 am
your baby's chubby little hand latches onto your finger so hard it's like she's saying i love you. that's why aveeno's oat formula
10:45 am
is designed for your baby's sensitive skin. aveeno®. naturally beautiful babies. push your enterprise and you can move the world. but to get from the old way to the new you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that is still to come.
10:46 am
10:47 am
thought you would be prime minister did you. >> for the past four months as many as eight times a week the queen of england has graced the boards of broadway right here in new york city not the actual elizabeth ii of course but as good an approximation as many have seen. a superb performance by dame helen mirren. she's em bodiesed the queen three times in the film "the queen" and two runs of the play "the audience" first in london and the just ended new york run. i had the pleasure of sit down with dame helen to talk about the role and how she prepared for it. >> a pleasure to have you on.
10:48 am
>> thank you. >> when you do a portrayal like that of the queen or some of the other ones you've done who are historical figures it's always struck me for an actor, this is a different challenge because if you're doing a character it's an imaginary thing, you can make your own version. >> of course, yes. >> here there is an actual historical truth as it were. there is somebody. are you trying to get to that truth? >> well, course. absolutely. but you know there are twos different -- i mean for example, playing elizabeth i and elizabeth ii are two extremely different challenges because obviously, elizabeth ii is alive. everybody knows what she sounds like talks like. walks like. and so you know it's incumbent upon me to at least you know fulfill that you know the impersonation side of the role. it was fascinating playing
10:49 am
elizabeth i because you know her image was highly controlled. you know she -- she would only be painted in a certain way. you know she crowed her own image. she was brilliant at sort of representing herself as the a symbol and as a brand, if you like. and hen when i came to elizabeth ii, again, now there's a lot of very controlled actual sort of document tritt you know. it's actually extremely controlled all the images of the queen. including the video. but and so in a way, looking at those videos didn't really help me much. and then i thought you know what why not go back and look at the portraits because she has been painted a lot. i thought you know what, i'm just another portraitist here i'm just another portraitist. my medium is not paint. it's the spoken word but i -- and that sort of liberated me
10:50 am
because i thought you know what you can be just do your version of how feel you're painting a portrait. >> but you did think in her >> but you did think you had to the impersonation right. >> certainly. >> because in the movies and the film reels in the '50s it's this very upper class -- >> it's very very cut glass accent absolutely. it's absolutely like that. it's terribly terribly sort of exact. and it's almost impossible to sort of overdo it. and now her accent is still what we would call in england posh. but it's -- it's more relaxed. >> you a lot -- in the play there is much talk about the monarchy. it's an odd role difficult for americans and many other people
10:51 am
to understand because she actually has very little power. >> well no power really at all. >> so what is the power? >> well as she says in the play and i think she's sort of talking about herself through the words of peter morgan. never underestimate the value of a symbol. she is a symbol. but it's a very potent symbol. it's a symbol that carries the history of britain with it. and along with that a certain sense of continuity obviously. and in her particular case i think an incredible sense of self-discipline, which i suspect they all had actually. >> so one of the great mysteries for everybody in britain and really everybody in the world is the queen has this weekly meeting with the prime minister. it is completely private, although virtually every prime
10:52 am
minister of the 12 involved have written memoirs. they have never disclosed what happened in those meetings. so what happens at those meetings? >> i suspect it's quite benull actually as in a way we show in the play. harold wilson said is that it a nice cup of tea, a talk about holiday homes and a nice cup of tea. and i suspect that's kind of it. >> now, you've met her. how different was she in person from the person you imagined? >> oh well when i first met her, that was long before -- well a few years before i did the film before i had any idea that i was going to have to play her at some time. no she was -- i mean i come from a republican family. my parents were vehemently anti-monarchist -- >> are you republican? >> yes, i think i am really. >> so you don't think britain should have a queen, even though
10:53 am
you've played the queen three times? >> i'm a queenist. i kind of love the queen. i wish we could have a queen without the rest of the royal family although i'm not dissing the rest of the royal family because i think as individual people, i think they're very decent. i think they're very hard working. and i think we got lucky, you know. and there are other wonderful, decent royal families. >> but you would dispense with the institution? >> well because i can't get my head around it. it doesn't make sense to me that these individuals are looked at in that way and the rest of the world is not looked at. again, to quote the play she says we're not like everybody else. that's the point of us. >> knowing her as you do in the sense -- >> yes. >> do you think she'll ever an dikate? >> no of course not.
10:54 am
>> duty is so important. >> i'm sure as she gets frailer, prince charles will more and more take over for her in various functions. but she will never abdicate no. it's not in the cards. >> helen mirren it's just a pleasure. >> thank you. thank you very much. a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what
10:55 am
matters most. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
10:56 am
10:57 am
10:58 am
last week i walked through singapore's beautiful botanic gardens the day after it had been named one of the 24 new world heritage sites.
10:59 am
the list comprises more than 1,000 sites of cultural and natural significance around the globe. other additions including archaeological sites from an ancient korean kingdom and the wineries of france's champagne region. it brings me to my question of the week. which country has the most unesco world heritage sites, china, india, the united states or italy. stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book is "being nixon, a man divided" by evan thomas. in a review max bood describes nixon as the oddest man ever to occupy the white house, and that might be an understatement. the veteran journalist, echvan thomas provides a highly illuminating study of the psychology of this man. the correct answer to the gps question is d. italy holds the record for the most unesco world heritage sites
11:00 am
with 51 in all. china is next with 48 and spain, france and germany round out the top five. the united states ranks tenth with 23 sites. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. happening now in the newsroom he's done it again. one of the most notorious drug kingpins in the world on the run after escaping from a mexican prison a second time. the jaw-dropping details on how the cartel leader known as el chapo, got out. then donald trump triples down with another plan to tackle illegal immigration. >> so i had an idea. i think it's good. every time mexico really intelligently sends people over we charge mexico $100,000 for every person they