the showing of amy schumer's comedy "train "trainwreck," it turned into a horror. a lone white male stood up and began shooting a handgun into the audience. >> we saw a lady with blood all over her leg. i grabbed my child. we all ran. >> reporter: police dispatched to the scene about 7:30 p.m. witnesses described it as something like a war, gunshot after gunshot as patrons fled for safety. >> heard the sirens and chaos. >> reporter: bobby jindal praising the heroism of two teacher who is were members of the audience. >> both were shot. her friend literally jumped over her and saved her life. if she hadn't done that her friend got shot. that bullet would have hit her in the head.

the second one, though she was shot in the leg, she had the presence of mind to pull the fire alarm to save other lives. >> actress amy schumer took to twitter to express her sympathy. my heart is broken. my thoughts and prayers are with everyone in louisiana. >> we are joined by jordon. he and his brother were in a nearby theater watching another shooting when it happened. they heard it all and witnessed the chaos after all. i imagine you are in a state of shock this morning, darling, how are you? >> i'm good. definitely in shock. didn't get but two hours of sleep last night. all this crazy scene out here. >> i can imagine. you are fatigued shocked, stunned about what happened. you go to a movie. what time was the showing, around 7:00? the same time the other showing was? >> yes, ma'am. my movie was at 7:15 and about

7:20 the alarms came on and just before that we heard some loud noises which, later, we found out came from across the hall. alarms sounded, our theater got evacuated. we came around the front and we hear tons of cop cars. we see ten to 15 cop cars outside already. we see a woman lying about 20-25 yards from the theater with a gunshot wound on her leg. after we seen that scene, we were pretty scared. we took cover behind a car and realized there was about 10 to 15 armed officers with assault rifles going in the front door and heading to the right of the theater, which is where we came out from. it was very very surreal. >> it's all happening so quickly. let's back up to when the alarms sounded. sometimes they go off and they are false alarms.

how did you know this was the real deal? >> we had no idea. first thing was the malfunction of the movie. lights came on we go outside. i thought there must be a fire. we come around the side. once we saw the woman and all the cop cars we knew it was something more serious than a fire. >> was she getting help at the time you saw her? >> yes. she was getting help by a man who was helping her with her leg, then seconds, minutes after, an officer came with a tourniquet and helped get her to an ambulance. >> you talked about the law enforcement presence arriving soon after you came out of the theater. talk about that. that must have been a relief to you. it also must have frightened you. you realized something was going on. >> yes, ma'am. yeah. seconds after we rounded the

corner of the building cops came in. they had their sirens on and radios on. we could hear them telling each other where to go. about a minute after we were outside, we heard an officer say get to theater 14. we have some men down at theater 14 we need an ambulance. that was really when we were like wow, this is crazy. this is -- we were all in shock about what's happening out here. >> from that point, until you understood there was no more threat, how much time did it feel like passed? >> definitely the whole night, until we got home. it was a nerve-racking feeling out here. at least for me and for my friends. just knowing that coming to a movie on a thursday night, we never expected that we would see a crime scene and a gunman go in a theater. very sad night.

>> i want to talk to you about that jordon? how old are you? you look like a young man, maybe a college student? >> yes, ma'am. i'm 19 years old. >> 19 years old, going to the theater with your brother, in lafayette. you are a local guy, aren't you? >> yes, ma'am, local. live about ten minutes from the theater. >> is this something you ever imagined would happen in your town? as an 18 19-year-old man, you have seen this happen around the country. >> yes, ma'am, first thing i thought was, when we heard there was a gunman is the "batman" shooting a couple years ago. i never, ever thought i would be in a movie theater that would have a gunman in it. no never thought that this would ever happen. >> jordon it's almost three years to the week that shooting happened in aurora. what is it going to take for your community to heal do you think? >> i'm sorry?

>> what do you think it's going to take for your community to begin the healing process? >> um i think that this community will come together. lafayette is a great place, great people. i think that me, myself will be nervous to come to the theater here for a little bit. but, hopefully, everybody can understand and put that behind them and come out to have a good night and a good time. >> i hope you and your community begin the healing process and you and your brother can support each other and your family. this is something we wish hadn't happened to you. we are glad you were able to speak to us. thank you for joining us on "new day." >> yes, ma'am, thank you. >> the looming question is why this happened. that takes us to what do we know about this guy and what happened in that theater from his perspective. let's get to cnns alexandra

field for that part of the story. we know certain things. >> we don't know his name chris. police have not released that. he fits into some of the categories we have come to expect. at 58 years old, he's older than the typical shooter you see in these situations. he is a white man. he has some criminal history. no details on what that history entails. he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound inside that movie theater. the question of motive can't be answered. investigators will be hard at work this morning, talking to friends, family members trying to paint a picture of this man and what could motivate something as senseless as this. we have data to fit this person in categories. what we can see here in data by mother jones is overwhelmingly the shooters are whilt people followed by black and asians. the whites are in line asians

higher for latinos. these are the faces of the other mass shooters we have had to talk about over the last few years. all of them men. overwhelmingly men. this comes near the three-year anniversary of the aurora shooting. many people waking up trying to say is this a copy cat attack? it is something investigators have to look at. this is three years after the shooting by james holmes after the screening of "the dark knight." this is a face that has been in the news because of the anniversary and this is somebody who was convicted bay jury and is now in the sentencing phase of a trial. chris, michaela? >> some of the heroes we are told about prevented more deaths from happening is truly a bit of a miracle in a dark situation. thank you for that. president obama is enroute to kenya. he has been briefed on the

louisiana shooting. before the trip he sat down with bbc. he says the failure to tighten gun laws in the u.s. has been his biggest frustration. michelle kaczynski is in nairobi ahead of the president. >> reporter: the timing. look at the president preparing to come here, the talk was about security concerns here. for the time being, that's been overshadowed by yet another shooting in america of innocent people in a public place. when he did this interview with the bbc, it was unexpected they asked him about the gun issue. once again, he spoke out strongly about wanting to do more to prevent gun violence. listen. >> the one area where i feel that i have been most frustrated and most stymied, it is the fact that the united states of america is the one advanced

nation on earth in which we do not have sufficient common sense gun safety laws. even in the face of repeated mass killings. and, you know if you look at the number of americans killed since 9/11 by terrorism, it's less than 100. if you look at the number that have been killed by gun violence it's in the tens of thousands. for us not to be able to resolve that issue has been something that is distressing, but, it is not something that i intend to stop working on in the remaining 18 months. >> every time one of these shootings happens, the white house is asked about what the administration is planning in terms of executive actions. they haven't said too much about timing or content. remember in 2013 the president

enacted two dozen executive actions on guns. most of them were about information sharing and some elements of background checks and wanting to do more studies on the issue. chris? >> thank you. the tragedy in lafayette bringing back haunting memories of the shooting in aurora colorado. the jury is weighing the death penalty against the killer convicted for shooting 12 people dead during a midnight showing of "the dark knight rises." 70 others were injured. there's going to be a press conference soon. as soon as it happens, we will take you to it. >> a somer scene in louisiana to pay tribute to a hometown hero. a motorcade escorted skip wells to his home.

he was gunned down in chattanooga. scott walker putting his campaign on hold to attend the funeral for one of the other slain marines, sergeant carson holmquist. >> "the new york times" reporting a pair of inspectors general asking the justice department to probe whether sensitive information was mishandled with the e-mail account hillary clinton used during her time as secretary of state. we have the very latest. it has to do with how they changed the wording here right? >> that's right. that story has been revised. the times reported the request was made into the inquiry of clinton's handling with her private e-mail. as secretary of state, now, the justice department was asked to find out if sensitive information was mishandled in relation to the e-mail account. the inspectors general for the

state department and intelligence agencies made the request to justice to see if the handling of the e-mails was improper. a spokesman said in a statement, contrary to the initial story, which has been significantly revised, clinton followed appropriate practices in dealing with classified materials. clinton, exclusively used that e-mail saying it was easier. those revelations dogged her presidential campaign. she did turn over 50,000 pages of e-mails, asked for them to be made public. now, the state department is reviewing them to make sure no sensitive information would be released. so far, 4,000 pages have been released. one of the e-mails was deemed classified after the private account became known. >> how is this going to affect a presidential run.

thanks so much for that. stay with us here on cnn for the latest on the breaking news out of lafayette. a gunman kills two people inside a louisiana movie theater. we are awaiting a news conference from local authorities. this is the latest in a string of shootings. the big question what can be done to prevent it from happening again. >> it's a -- it's terrible you know we are used to dealing with natural types of catastrophes hurricanes stuff like that. nothing like this. if you can't stand the heat, get off the test track. get the mercedes-benz you've been burning for at the summer event, going on now at your authorized mercedes-benz dealer. hurry, before this opportunity cools off. share your summer moments in your

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we are following breaking news. a deadly shooting at a movie theater in lafayette, louisiana. a gunman killing two and wounding nine others then taking his own life. why? we are not yet sure. we are waiting for a press conference. let's talk about why this continues to happen. we have a former senator from georgia with us. sir, always a pleasure. thank you for joining us on "new day." >> sure thanks chris, good to be with us. the hearts of all georgians go out to the lafayette community particularly the families of those killed and injured. terrible tragedy. >> once again, we are seeing the best of people come out when we are introduced to the worse of people. calling 911 right away making sure that the help was there in

a time of need and, of course it all starts with the worst. there are three components. you have guns you have a culture of violence and you have the continuing expression of mental illness. when you look at these components do you see them all as equal in why we keep having these mass shootings? >> well i'm not sure there's a culture of violence in lafayette, louisiana. i have been there many many times. it's a very quaint nice community. home of the raginge rajin cajins. the facts will be revealing themselves over the next several days but, there is a issue

relative to those who shouldn't get their hands on guns getting guns. we have lots of laws on the books to prohibit that. we simply don't do the job we need to do to enforce those laws. why not -- that is a point that is often ignored in this debate. you have plenty of laws. enforcement is weak and enforcement for how to secure your arms is weak. often, people get guns by getting them from people who don't have them properly secure. why do you think enforcement is lax? >> education is critically important. education about gun safety. if you are going to have possession of a gun, you need to know that there are trigger locks available to you. you have to buy a trigger lock with a pistol and you need to put that lock on there. but, that's not the issue that we have here. the issue we have here

obviously, is an individual who, for whatever reason mental instability, who knows, depression or whatever got their hands on a gun and decided to commit a terrible act that was undoubtedly random from what the facts revealed thus far. how do you control that? you know that's a very very difficult question to answer. >> that's true. we have to keep asking it and talking about it. obviously, i'm not talking lafayette, louisiana as being a violent place. i'm talking a culture of dynamic that embraces harshness. what we are seeing in politics right now. donald trump popped in the polls. it is not simply a phenomenon. it is not just about his celebrity. he is tapped into a mood of anger and outrage and it is moved him to the top of the polls of your party whachlt is the lesson in it to you? >> well i think it's obvious

that when you have a poll like that and somebody is getting 25% in a 16-man field that there are not just republicans angry and upset, there are democrats, too, that said hey, this guy is saying things that i been wanting to say for years and been thinking for years. i think donald trump, who is a smart guy, obviously, is capitalizing on the fact that washington has been sitting on its hands for the last 25 years on any number of issues including the issue of immigration reform. his statements were not random statements they were calculated. he came out of the box, everybody knew if he got into the race he would not be a shrinking ballot and he isn't. he's capitalized on an issue, i.e. immigration, that really strikes at the heart of a lot of americans, republicans and democrats. >> do you like the way he's framed it?

do you like how he's seeking to seemingly be more divisive than bringing people together toward a solution? >> i would not have said what he said but, hey, this is politics. it is a contact sport. donald trump know that is well. even though he's never run for office he's been very engaged in the political scene. i wouldn't have said what he said about my friend john mccain who is a war hero. it generates headlines and it generates the situation in the political race right now where donald trump sucked all the presidential political air out of the room. every story you hear today has donald trump in it. you don't hear anything about any other candidate. that's a calculated move on trump's part. >> well, what ultimately is the value to trump? do you think he's got a shot at being the party's candidate? do you think he becomes something productive or more noise than news?

>> i don't know donald trump well but i know him. i know he's a very smart guy. he's a guy that has made a contribution to not just the city of new york where he lives, but to the economy of the united states and other parts around the world. he's a good thinker. certainly, he has the ability and opportunity to contribute long term to republican conservative politics. i hope he stays engaged. but, whether he gets the nomination we are a year out now from the end of the primary season so there are going to be lots of hills and valleys we get to get to. i think, while trump has gained the headlines over the last several weeks, we are getting close to primary season. over the next couple weeks, debate season as we go into this august debate mr. trump and others are going to have to

talk about substantive issues. that's what voters are going to make up their mind about. it will be interesting to watch the debates and see how he and others react to what's happened over the last few weeks. >> you are suggesting a change in the state of play once the debates start. we will see. thank you very much former senator. you are always welcome on "new day," have a good weekend. >> you too. >> we are enjoying the latest developments in louisiana. we are awaiting a live news conference an update from law enforcement on the ground on what happened. maybe more about the gunman and a motive. we are following donald trump after his u.s./mexico border tour yesterday. did he give immigration reform specifics and what is he saying about a third party run? policy has a number. but not every insurance company

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witnesses describe a frightening, terrifying scene inside a lafayette movie theater

shooting. a 58-year-old man shot inside the theater. nine people were wounded in that shooting. police and the fbi are on scene trying to determine a possible motive this as investigators continue to comb through the scene for anymore evidence. ed is live in lafayette, louisiana this morning. that community waking up to terrible violence. >> reporter: good morning, michaela. we are moments away from another briefing from the governor of louisiana, bobby jindal and state and local police on what is going on with the investigation. they have been inside the theater collecting evidence shell casings. three people dead in all. two victims and the gunman killed himself. i'm told the gunman killed himself as police were entering the movie theater. one of the last things it police

officers heard was the last shot as the gunman killed himself. 100 people inside that theater. of course the most important news and most ongoing news is the conditions of those victims. some of them are in critical condition. nine other people wounded in all. so keeping close tabs on the conditions of those victims. with we are told some are in critical condition. we are told by state investigators here that they believe, at this point, the gunman came to this theater by himself. he was not with anyone else, sat down and as the movie credits started, he stood up and started firing. >> let us know when the press conference is going to get started. the other story has to do with politics and donald trump. the gop candidate claiming he will get the republican nomination for president. hours earlier, he started messing with people's heads. he talked to "the hill" news

paper and said he would consider a third party run if he's not treated fairly with the rnc. that could have complications. michael kohn, special council to donald trump. good to see you. obviously, i'm sure mr. trump as the entire country shares the simpympathyies of what's going on. >> tragedy. >> you know it's our battle to figure out why and what to do about it. he hasn't spoken on this issue, yet. now that it's relevant do you expect we will hear from donald trump, how he feels about guns and what's going on with the shootings? >> there's no doubt he's going to weigh in on this. he'll announce his position at the right time. it's a tragedy. it's a tragedy with what happened. it's a tragedy almost to the year of aurora. it's just terrible. the country is really going

downhill. i saw the president talking about how, you know this is part of his agenda that he just wasn't able to get going. it's again, a shame for the families of everybody that was affected in this shooting. so the third party thing. getting a lot of heat. in a previous appearance on "new day," i said why not just run as the trump party? he has bad blood with the gop. you brushed it aside and said he's a republican. >> he is a republican. >> is he floating that out as threat? >> no. i think right now what he is doing is sending a message, play fair gop. i know you don't want me or maybe it's my perception you don't want me but that's how i feel. if that's how i feel i want it known. i want to be treated fairly. i'm front-runner polls are going up every day. treat me the same as you treat

everybody else. a statement put out by an rnc member last week. i found it disrespectful to mr. trump. i presume he must have felt the same way. >> do you feel the gossip they are trying to find ways to change procedure to disadvantage mr. trump? >> there was talk of trying to figure out how not to have him on the debate stage. he's never going to file his fec forms, he did it a day in advance. boy, his are complicated, 92 pages. the forms are not for somebody of mr. trump's worth. there are two individuals, trump and mr. rubio that have filed. someone like rick perry needs to file his forms. >> it's real? >> oh it's rail. >> if they screw with him, whatever happens, you feel he could look at that option? >> donald trump is a rich man.

he's said he is going to spend a substantial amount of money on this race. if he doesn't spend it as a republican maybe he will as part of the trump party. he's a republican. he wants to run as a republican. he believes he can make this country great again. he believes he's entitled. if the people want him and he continues to do great in the polls, she should be the nominee. >> a charge against him in 2004 he told wolf and others i'm more sympathetic to the democrats than the republicans. republicans are using him. >> nobody has ever changed his mind over what is that? 15 or 20 years? you are not allowed to change your mind because you are donald trump. he's a new york city real es kate developer. that is a democratic state. he donated money, yes, to democrats as well and they turn

around and asked him why. he said because they came to my office and they needed money and it just made sense for him, as a businessman. as a presidential candidate, he's all in as a republican. he's always been a republican. he's never changed his check box. he's a republican. >> do you care about the mayor of new york city? does mr. trump care saying he's going to box them out? >> it's another terrible attack on mr. trump. again, we talk about this all the time. it's a distorted message including the young lady on your show before me. anna salazar. mexicans did not come down and picket him yesterday at the border. this issue about the border patrol pulling out. mr. trump was in his aircraft on his way, at that request, then they decided, something happened nationally where they said you can't do it. you are not allowed to take mr.

trump around. what did he do? met with the mayor and other city leaders. he got a perspective. he was greeted with open arms. >> he was certainly greeted with open arms. they wanted to show him the reality and how it's different than what he's portraying. it seems he softened a little bit. i don't mean that as a criticism. he's getting out and seeing things. he is safe. he learned how it's not as dangerous down there. he changed about the wall. do you think that the firy rhetoric will come down in terms of flames as he learns more about the situations he's talking about. >> i think mr. trump's position there are certain areas that require -- >> he used to say a wall around the whole thing. >> but he still says mexico -- he's going to get mexico to pay

for it. he hasn't changed on that. was he safe yesterday? thank god he was safe. it's dangerous. everybody understands you have to go to the location to fully understand it. i think his understanding of immigration and illegal immigration and the crime that's committed and the fact we spend more money on their health than we do our veterans. these are all issue that is mr. trump is concerned about. i do suspect he's going to say something on gun control because of this terrible tragedy, but he's -- his whole message, make america great is resinating. it's resinating from people. he speaks from the heart. nothing else can be done other than be yourself. that's what mr. trump is. >> start offering solutions. we will cover them here. we look forward to your help. >> thanks again. >> michaela? >> we are staying on top of the

breaking news out of louisiana. a gunman shoots two and himself. we are awaiting a live news conference. we'll bring it to you ahead. >> the great thing about america is when any of us suffer whether it's one family or one community, we all suffer. this is a time for us to come together. we will get through this. i'm gonna crack like nobody's watching and eat like i skipped lunch. why? because red lobster's crabfest is back. and i'm diving into so much crab

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the tragedy in louisiana is unfortunately the latest incident of gun violence taking place during president obama's administration. keeping the guns out of the of the hands of would be criminals has been a focus for the president even in an interview he gave to the bbc just yesterday. >> the one area where i feel that i have been most frustrated and most stymied, it is the fact that the united states of america is the one advanced nation on earth in which we do not have sufficient common sense gun safety laws. even in the face of repeated

mass killings. >> for more we turn to john king our national correspondent, host of cnns, "inside politics." he's stymied. >> i would not anticipate that. the president is reflecting his own frustration. this is a very political issue. we know the shootings by aurora, and newtown. we listen to the president try to console the nation. >> my immediate thoughts and prayers are with you. join me and michelle in keeping all the victims and their families, including gabby in our thoughts and prayers. i'm sure that many of you that are parents here have the same

reaction i did when i heard this news. as a country, we have been through this too many times. whether it's an elementary school in neuman or a shopping mall in oregon. these are men and women going to work, doing their job, protecting all of us. we are heartbroken something like this might have happened again. i have had to make statements like this too many times. >> he knows he's not going to get new legislation, john. there's also the issue of lack of performance with the laws you do have. it never gets attention, either. of course it's not the president's view necessarily. part of the political reflection you think, that gun policy is about more not less? >> it is part of it. if you look at charleston chris, the fbi director came out and admitted someone made a mistake by an employee that that shooter should not have been able to buy a gun t. paperwork

was not followed up on right. we need more information on what happened in lafayette. some reports say he had a criminal record. there is a -- one of the remarks you get constantly from the gun rights community is enforce existing laws before you pass new laws. that is part of it. a lot of what the president has been frustrated by whether it's obamacare or whether it's a republican divide be careful. guns is not a partisan issue, it's regional and cultural. there are a lot that disagree with the calls for new gun laws as well. it's a different issue from what we have watched throughout the presidency. >> we have been talking about why we respond with violence and anger. you can't legislate that necessarily. let's pivot. there's another big story we are watching in the new york times report that is the justice department is being asked to look into the potential

mishandling of sensitive information and whether or not hillary clinton was involved. i mean that is pretty damming. i have to imagine, politically, for a presidential candidate. >> as a headline it's troubling. our correspondent confirmed the inspector general for the state department asked the justice department to look into weather information was mishandled in the time period where hillary clinton was using a private e-mail server. the clinton campaign is saying she is confident she did nothing wrong. she is certain she did nothing wrong. no information that the investigation is specifically raising questions about something she did. it is raise zing questions about this arrangement where she had an e-mail server at her home with government information going back and forth. the question is was sensitive information mishandles.

we'll watch it play out and be careful and watch the investigation. we talked about how one of her issues in the campaign is honesty and trustworthiness. as republicans in congress say we want more information about that. we want testimony from the former secretary of state. this will only intensify it as well. >> is it relevant "the new york times" changed its language taking out hillary's name of what is being looked at in terms of who did something wrong in the situation? >> it certainly is relevant if you are going to look at -- again, relevant from a journalism perspective. i'm not there. i wasn't there. did they properly vet and edit this? did they get the information right? of course now, that will factor into every political conversation. the clinton come pain is saying look they changed the story. they said it's more about her, now the practice. what happened? why was it set up? sure it matters.

it's a tough one. only the times can say how it happens. >> competitors are going to run with it. john king great to have you with us as we break down the news of the week sunday 8:30 eastern. have a great weekend. >> we keep repeating it because it matters. a press conference about what authorities know about the lafayette, louisiana movie shooting. we are going to talk live with governor bobby jindal. he was live at the scene within hours of the shooting. stay with us with e eel get the most information as soon as possible. she'll log in with her smile. he'll have his very own personal assistant. and this guy won't just surf the web. he'll touch it. scribble on it. and share it. because these kids will grow up with windows 10. get started today. windows 10.

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we are following breaking news. three are dead including the gunman in a shooting at a movie theater in louisiana. authorities have identified the shooter. he's a 58-year-old white male. we don't know why he opened fire inside that crowded theater. nine people wounded in the shooting. we're told some of them are in critical condition this morning. 100 were gathered in the theater at the time. it happened during a screening of the movie "train wreck." she tweeted that her heart was broken broken. >> we have breaking news overnight from turkey. they are taking a bigger role in their fight against isis in syria. they are conducting airstrikes near the turkish border. officials said intelligence suggests isis is storing explosives there. they are also allowing american war planes to use two of its bases in bombarding the group in sear

syria. >> an autopsy ruling that sandra bland's death was suicide by hanging. they found her hanging in her cell two hours after she was last checked on. her family denies claims that blond was suicidal instead saying her arrest and the officer's actions were out of line. bland was arrested two weeks ago after a texas officer pulled her over for allegedly failing to use her turn signal. we are following the latest developments from louisiana. we're going to get a live update from authorities that will take us much deeper down the road is who is still hurt and why did this happen. stay with us. >> out of tonight's tragedy you're beginning to hear heroism. two friends together, one jumps in the way of a bullet. the one pulls the fire alarm to save other people's lives.

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it's friday, july 24th, we are following break news of what happened in lafayette, louisiana. a gunman came in during a movie and started shooting. he killed two people turned the gun on himself and also died. nine others injured as well. >> the question is why did he do it. it's almost three years to the week of the aurora movie theater killing in which so many people died. we have the story covered with ed louisiana ed who is in louisiana. >> reporter: as you mentioned eerie similarities to what happened in colorado but here this morning, evidence teams continuing to work inside the movie theater where the gunfire erupted collecting evidence and trying to piece together the motive behind all of this. it's been a long night here in lafayette, louisiana.

a gunman opens fire in a packed movie theater in louisiana. some life threatening injuries and some dead including the 58-year-old male shooter. >> we do know the identity of the shooter. we are not releasing it at this time. we're right in the middle of the investigation and don't tonight affect the investigators' ability to do their job. >> 20 minutes into a the show offing of "train wreck" the scene turned into something from a horror movie. a lone white male stood up and began. shooting a handgun into the audience. >> we saw a lady with blood all over her leg. i grabbed my towel and we all ran. >> police were dispatched at 7:30 central time. witnessed described the terr