bound to tell somebody and somebody may be able to help you out? >> generally that's the case. we're being optimistic that that may well be the case. if they don't tell us, usually if there's three or more or even two or more involved it's difficult to keep those types of secrets to yourself so even if they don't tell us they may tell somebody else. so even if we get it from a reliable source it's good. >> reporter: was there dash cam video? >> there are dash cams in some of the vehicles and, again, we're reviewing that as well. >> reporter: but in the officer's car? >> i haven't confirmed that yet. >> reporter: was he shot with his own gun? >> i can't -- again, i'm going to be limited as to what i can confirm. >> reporter: have you ruled out the possible that the lieutenant was deliberately targeted in these hundreds of tips that you're vetting? have you seen any messages that point to the possibility that he

might have been deliberately targeted? . at this point in the investigation no, however we are not discounting everything. we're looking at every aspect and angle of this. all of you in the media who have been experienced and i'm sure you've been to a number of these press conferences know that these types of investigations have many twists and turns that could happen within a couple minutes. >> reporter: is there a search going on right now? >> we have investigators out canvassing again following up on leads knocking on doors we didn't get to yesterday evening near the perimeter area because there were fbi, our swat team, the sheriff's office were still securing those areas and ensuring our detectives' safety. so if you want to call that a search, you can refer to it. i'm referring to it as a canvass. >> reporter: is it frustrating after all the resources yesterday you haven't come up with anything. >> certainly.

>> reporter: is there a bolo out that reaches -- >> yes. >> reporter: for how many statestate s? >> nationwide. the we've received calls from various media sources. i would presume from you folks as far as australia and england. >> reporter: [ inaudible ] >> sorry, ask me that again, i has there been any decision on school for tomorrow? >> that's not my decision. i'll defer that question to the village administration. >> reporter: the officers who are here helping out, are any of those departments here today? >> correct, they are. >> reporter: where from? >> virtually every department in lake county is represented. we have resources from mchenry county, our federal partners are here today working with our detectives. atf has got a presence and the u.s. marshal's office has a substantial presence as well as state police and sheriff's

office. >> reporter: how many murders has the task force handled on a year basis and could you use some help, for example, from the chicago police department which handles many more? >> i think we're adequately staffed. our detectives and evidence technicians are the best you'll find. putting a number on how many murders is -- i can't put an exact number on it, it varies from year to year. we've roughly handled as many as 40 in a year as few as a dozen. >> reporter: did he make any indication that the suspects were on foot only or nearby a car, did they come out of a car? >> the presummings wption was b the radio traffic that they were on foot. >> reporter: have there been sightings at this point? >> well, we're getting information and there was a release of a description, a

cursory vague description so, of course, we're getting the public calling in any time they see that match of three individuals or even two individuals and we are doing our due diligence in following up on that. we've closed out those leads completely as being unsubstantiated. >> reporter: is there any area outside a two mile radius being searched? >> i'm sorry? >> reporter: is there any area outside the two mile radius being searched right now? >> we're expanding out into the subdivisions. >> reporter: it is true that some of his gear was taken from him? >> again, i can't confirm that. that's key and crucial to our investigation. >> reporter: are you working with the family on arrangements for a burial? >>. >> the village of fox lake, the hundred club, the fop, the congressman's office, i know there's a number of resources out there helping. the village of fox lake, there's a vigil scheduled for tonight

from what i've been told. >> reporter: was his weapon recovered? >> reporter: it keeps being mentioned there are three suspects but there's no evidence that the three suspects are traveling together nor is there anything to suggest that, a, they're traveling together or, b, that they're in this area. >> no. >> can you say anything about a second weapon beyond the officer's service weapon? >> no. can't comment on that. >> are you satisfied based on your searches yesterday that you're not inside empty vacation homes? in that area you were searching. did you secure every single home? >> i believe that the search teams did a thorough job but i know there have been a number of national incidents where suspects have cleverly escaped or hidden in place so anything is possible.

we are still on our guard but we're satisfied yesterday's results are thorough but as police officer, you understand, we have a murdered police officer, we're not taking chances or making assumptions. >> reporter: chief, i was just at the crime scene. while there a law enforcement officer came by and said they're reinstituting the crime scene and this we had to leave the area. do you know anything about that and why? >> we're just doing now -- it's called a secondary review of the crime scene itself. it's nothing more than that. yesterday we were fight iing lighting conditions and some conditions were poor at the end of the day. that's showing you the attention to detail that the evidence technician technicians are giving to this, going out and reexamining. you have to imagine this is a very -- area that has a lot of

foliage around it so they're turning over every leaf and blade of glass to see if there's anything else out there they may have missed? >> what are you saying to people who are wondering why aren't you searching, only canvassing? people in the community are wondering. >> same, same. one or the other, search, canvass, it's the same thing. we're using our -- in the investigative field canvass but we're looking if the suspects. >> reporter: what do you say to residents like yesterday in fox lake who were afraid to let their dogs out. what do you say to them today? >> remain vigilant. have confidence in the police department. they've brought in a number of resources to assist. if you suspect anything, if you see anything out of character, if you simply have a feeling something is wrong call the fox lake police department immediately. >> does that caution extend to other communities around here? >> i would say it would, yes.

>> reporter: do you have a graphic of any idea where these suspects would be? >> no. >> reporter: have the service weapon and radio been recovered? >> again, i can't comment on the evidence. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> yes. >> reporter: were there any eyewitnesss? >> i won't comment on, that either. >> reporter: how much longer if you don't see any results will this canvassing today and how much longer are you -- >> i'm not going to set a time limit on. this i have a murdered colleague, a police officer and we're not going to stop. >> reporter: chief, based on the fact that these men were evidently willing to shoot a police officer, how dangerous do you think they are? >> they shot a police officer. i think that speaks for itself. extremely dangerous. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] among the leads that you have? >> again, i'm not going to

comment on that. you know, i don't want to give any away any of our current information and put misinformation out there or information that may help the suspect. so i can't answer that. >> reporter: [ inaudible ] >> yes, i think we are making progress. any time we get a lead we move forward. even if that lead is discounted that is progress. so we are making progress. >> reporter: was the initial response about a reported lottery? >> no. >> reporter: was the officer injured in any other way? >> again, that's information i can't give you. >> reporter: was the officer called to that scene? was there a 911 call? >> i can tell you the officer self-responded. >> it wasn't robbery but what was suspicious activity? >> well, i can't speak for the officer, again, but if you're

driving down a roadway that's got nothing but open fields, possibly abandoned businesses and you see three individuals there that have no reason for being there, it would be a fundamental police procedure to stop and at least question as to why they're there. again, i can't speak for what happened or what the circumstances of the encounter were or how these individuals were even acting when the officer first saw them. >> reporter: so that was the scenario, though? >> correct. >> reporter: where's your command center? >> reporter: will you be making any recommendations with the town about -- >> again, i'll dhaefr to village administration. >> i understand that, but -- >> we'll have a meeting with the sheriff's department, the leadership within fox lake. i presume there will be some school district representative there is probably within the next -- >> reporter: but what's law enforcement's recommendation? >> we want to sit down and

analyze the impact first before we make any types of recommendation. >> reporter: what's the mood among the police right now? >> tenacious, they're focused, energetic and they know exactly what their mission is. and we're hoping for the best outcome of what we're doing. we've got officers coming in, we had officers yesterday coming in on their own time to offer assistan assistance. i'm getting text messages from police departments all over the counties offering assistance off duty. canine units, detectives. so we have to gauge our resources as well. >> you had 400 officers out here yesterday. 40 canines. what's your level of resources today as you go forward?

>> we probably have about i'd say approximately 100 investigators working this case actively right now. then we have support units coming in that will be funneling data for us, tracking some of the electronics, reviewing video. >> reporter: have you been in touch with lieutenant gliniewicz' family? >> i have personally not been in touch with them. again, this is an anomaly for lake county as well as this community. i know the fox lake police department every employee, police or any employee within any of the other divisions are devastated by this loss. i didn't know the officer personally but everything that's been told to me about him was that he was an outstanding police officer, an outstanding community member and a father, we have to remember, of four

children. >> reporter: what kind of help is being offered to his family? >> we're -- the police department and village of fox lake are working to get the northeastern illinois stress debriefing team in. we've got clergy assistance as well. that was almost immediate. >> reporter: in the absence of any evidence they are still lin the area, how long will the patrols continue? >> again, that's something we'll discuss today and i'm sure we'll review that everyday. so thank you, folks. >> reporter: do officers have body cameras? >> thank you, folks. i want to go straight to fox lake, illinois, for the latest, we have our correspondent rosa flores there on the ground. give us the headlines here of key developments in the search for these suspects, rosa.

>> well, this commander says what they're doing right now is called a secondary review of the search. so the initial search, the door-to-door knocking on doors, clearing of buildings in that two-mile perimeter that was established yesterday as been concluded. he says he feels confident that they went through every house, through every abandoned building, through the overgrown marshes and that they don't believe these three individuals, the three suspects, in that particular area. of course they are still following every single lead. he says about 100 investigators from state, local and federal agencies including the u.s. marshals, fbi, atf, are going through every lead and all of the evidence, brianna. so they're going back, checking, reviewing to make sure they didn't miss anything. they also mentioned they have surveillance video. he says the quality of this

video varies but that they're going frame by frame. they have specialists who are part of the cyber teams that are qualified to go through this video and give them their expert take on if anything is in the video that would lead them to these suspects. one other thing, he says the autopsy for this police officer has been concluded, they have preliminary results, they are not releasing those results at this particular time but that this investigation is ongoing and they plan to continue until they find these three suspects. brianna? >> that ear not saying, right, rosa, whether this officer was shot with his own gun by one of these suspects or if he was shot by a different weapon, right? >> this commander, he was asked about that multiple times and he would not go into those details about the weapon, if the weapon was recovered or what evidence

was recovered from the scene so at this point we don't know, the only thing we do know is that radio exchange that the officer had with dispatch where we hear he describes the two individuals as two white males and another individual as a black male. we've asked him if there's a better description because as you might imagine that's a very blanket statement and he says they don't have a clear picture of that individual, that's why they've got these investigators scouring through frame by frame the surveillance video that is available in this area. i should add the commander told me before this press conference over the phone that this is an abandoned area, sparse area, there's not a lot there, he says there are abandoned buildings used by squatters. we've been trying to get more information about the suspicious

activity this lieutenant was following. he wouldn't tell us exactly but he did say that you know, if no normal police procedure if you're driving by and you see people not supposed throb in a sparse area it would be normal practice for a police officer to stop by and ask those individual what is they're doing whatever the case might be. is that what happened? we don't know he says but that's an example he used. it gives us a glimpse as to what that suspicious activity was but it's important because up to now we haven't gotten an answer to that question, either, brianna. >> what about dna collection? he was asked whether there was dna evidence. what did we learn? >> the only thing he said was that his police vehicle was processed, that all of that evidence was collected and that it's being processed right now and, of course, they're doing the secondary serge trying to

figure out if they missed anything as well. he wouldn't go into if they recovered fingerprints or any other sort of evidence but he does say that at this point in time they are processing that evidence and they have nothing else to tell us at this point. brianna. >> rosa flores in fox lake, illinois. i want to talk about this with the former nypd detective gill alva joining us from new york. we have retired chief deputy u.s. marshal matt fogg with us from gainesville, georgia. so gill, what's striking here is perhaps what police on scene in fox lake don't know. it seems like they only have this cursory and vague description of these suspects, they're asking people to be on the lookout for anyone acting suspiciously. they don't know if these three guys are still together. it's like looking for a needle

in a haystack here. >> it's extremely difficult but this is how police work is and that's how detailed it is that you have to get everybody together. so this is a two-pronged kind of search. you have a search and then you have an investigation. so you have to investigate who are these guys and the search is let's stop these guys before they hurt anyone else. when you shoot a police officer or have a confrontation with a police officer and you have a that confrontation and kill a police officer you're a different animal. they know when the police get you, something will happen. if they don't give up right now, this is going to end up in a bad state so let's hope we get these guys as soon as possible. but the civilians and people out there are the ones, any little detail means a lot. that's how we catch these guys. >> matt, where would you go from here if you really have limited information. obviously we know investigators are going frame by frame through

some surveillance video that sounds like a lot of it may not be great in terms of visual quality. where do you go if you're doing an investigation like that? >> well, you look at the dna or try and look at the information that the sheriff is not putting out right now, which i can understand because he wants to make certain he doesn't compromise the investigation. that there may be something these guys somewhere listening in getting information back to them he wants to make certain so you detail. you have to make sure that there's no rock unturned. and when you're talking about three guys in a particular area, i would think somebody has seen -- two white and one black, that's to me i would think somebody has seen something so some people out there are probably holding back or not sure what they saw was unusual so they have to go back over everything and continue to kind of just concentrate their resources on the small details

because that's what will be the thing that will turn something over and cause them to get a little more lead to go do more. >> gill, what are the chances these three individuals are still together? wouldn't it have been smarter for them to split up and how much more difficult dawes that make looking for them. >> all the search and all this investigation is not negative stuff. so it's not like we're not going to find them and everything is going to be going down a dead end street. even the surveillance video. the surveillance could be these guys were walking in the morning, at night. any time within the two or three days, that's why you have to check surveillance for a period of time. could they have split up. that's a possibility because he was killed and they know they'll be chased soon so they could have just ran into the woods or ran into some place, ran into a car and the car took them out of that location. so they could be out of that area. but still that area has to be

searched. do i have confidence these guys will be caught? yeah. the only problem i feel like, i hope they get them soon so nobody else is hurt, they don't go into a house, go and have somebody hostage. these guys are desperate. so when you have desperate guys like this anything could happen. >> gil and matt, thanks so much to both of you. coming up, new developments in the police shooting of a san antonio oyeoman. and we have a look at dr. ben carson's dramatic rise in the polls. what is behind this? how has carson managed to stay on donald trump's good side? he might be the only one. i'll ask one of his senior advisors. no student's ever photographed mean ms. colegrove. but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that's that new gear feeling. all laptops on sale, save $230 on this dell 2-in-1. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great.

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next hour we are expecting to flare police regarding a deadly shooting caught on video near san antonio and we will bring it to you live when it happens. meantime, cnn is learning more details about a second video of the shooting.

i want to bring in sara sidner in san antonio. this first video we saw, sara, of this shoot iing of a man was give on the a television station instead of police. it shows deputies shooting a suspect. he appears to be holding up one of his hands. there's an obstruction of what looks like a power of telephone pole. now there's a second video. what's your source telling you about what this second video reveals? >> a source has told me they have seen this second video and in the second video you can see both of the suspect's hands very clearly. now, what we're told by the source who has viewed the video is that in one of those hands he is holding a knife. according to the source, both hands are up, one of them has a knife in it. we've all seen the video that was released to the public. we've also talked to the witness who took that video who said the reason why he gave it to a television station was he wanted to make sure an investigation

was fair and that nothing could be swept under the rug. he said he himself could not see the other hand of the suspect and what it was doing and you cannot see in the the video. now, we also talked to the district attorney who did reveal to us yesterday that there were indeed two videos. here's what we had to say when we asked him about the details in that second video that the public has not yet seen. >> you mentioned that you'd seen both t videos. is one more disturbing than the other? more clear than the other. >> the second video, the one not out in the public, is much clearer, it's a different angle and closer so it gives us a better view of what happened. >> that is all that district attorney lahood would tell us, we can tell you, brianna, that the fbi is involved in the investigation now and we are told that just yesterday they opened up a civil rights investigation into this case, they are looking at this case as well. brianna? >> sara sidner for us in san

antonio owe. we're also watching breaking news in baltimore. lawyers for six officers charged in first degree's death asked a judge to dismiss the charges for -- or remove the prosecutor, that was the other request. gray died after he suffered a fatal spinal cord injury while in police custody. jean casarez joining us live from outside of the courthouse in baltimore. jean, tell us what the ruling was on these two motions. >> there are huge rulings that have come about in this case and the headline is this trial is going forward. in the motion to dismiss the charges brought by, of course, the defense, the judge denied the motion so all charges stand as they were charged by the prosecutor's office from second degree depraved heart murder to false imprisonment and even manslaughter and on the second motion to recuse the state attorney, marilyn mosby, the chief prosecutor and the prosecutor's office based on

bias and conflict of interest, once again denied. so the state attorney from baltimore, that office will be trying this case. now, the defense tried very hard in oral argument in this morning with the motion to dismiss the charges saying that in fact the prosecutor's office had become witnesses because they conducted their own investigation when the police were conducting their investigation and he'll want to put them on the stand. the judge response to that was that there wasn't an issue that. that that is all right to do. if they have any issues with the state attorney, that's another venue. they can ask for a sanction with the attorney governing the attorneys in this state but it's not proper for this trial. in the motionrecuse, the judge made mention of marilyn mosby, remember her statement on may 1 when she made the statement of probable cause, the judge did mention "no peace, no justice, no justice, no peace."

the judge did intimate she was an advocate in that and that that was not proper but that did not warrant recusal of her entire office and her so the community is aware of this hearing, they know how important it is. there were peaceful pro zests in front of the courthouse and also about four blocks away near the waterfront and one person was arrested. there was a group locking arms, justice for freddie gray, the police asked them to move out of the roadway, they did not. one person they put in the police van and arrested him and an officer was injured, the police department tells us, not requiring hospitalization but the community is aware. people are mingling around now but obviously it's a normal day in baltimore but for this critical hearing for these six police officers, now defendants in the killing of freddie gray.

>> jean casarez from baltimore, thank you so much. attorney general loretta lynch spoke about the recent wave of violence across the country a short time ago. let's listen. >> the many shootings we have seen around the country in recent months are all particularly troubling is. we have seen violence strike at all segments of our community. it's a sad fact now that no one is safe. we've seen these brutal police killings. we've seen the particularly violent shootings of two virginia reporters killed on air last week. last month, members of our military targeted in tennessee, moviegoers in louisiana and, of course, in june, church parishioners in charleston. and, of course, many of our cities are seeing an increase in violence that we're looking at very closely. this violence against all of us, regardless of what uniform any

of us wear, has to end. >> lynch says the justice department will hold a meeting later this month with law enforcement officers from around the country and they'll discuss strategies to combat the violence. up next, the white house plays a numbers game as they reach an important milestone on the iran nuclear deal. we'll talk about that. stay with us. it wouland it turned onif you turned oeverywhere else.ne room but that's exactly how traditional cooling and heating systems work. so you pay more than you should. but mitsubishi electric systems

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we begin with a major victory for president obama and the white house and a desire to get approval for the nuclear deal negotiated with iran. today maryland democratic senator barbara mikulski said

she'll approve the deal. that puts the number of supporting senators at 34, the magic number to fend off a veto of congressional action aimed at strikes down the deal. moments ago we heard from secretary of state john kerry as he defended the deal in a speech in philadelphia. >> this arrangement is both unprecedented and unique. in addition the iaea will have more inspectors working in iran using modern technology such as realtime enrichment monitoring, high tech electronic seals and cameras that are always watching 24/7, 365. further, iran has agreed never to pursue key technologies that would be necessary to develop a nuclear explosive device. so the agreement deals not only with the production of fissile material but also with the critical issue of weaponization.

because of all of these limitations and guarantees, we can sum up by saying is that without this agreement the iranians would have several potential pathways to a bomb. with it, they won't have any. you've probably heard the claim that because of our strength, because of the power of our banks all we americans have to do if congress reject this is plan is return to the bargaining table, puff out our chests and demand a better deal. i've heard one critic say he would use sanctions to give iran a choice between having an economy or having a nuclear program. well, folks, that's a very punchy soundbite but it has no basis in any reality. >> before his philadelphia speech, the secretary of state sat down and spoke with christiane amanpour about the deal and the vote count needed in the senate.

>> obviously 34 votes are enough votes for the president's veto to be able to be upheld but we're not -- that's not the way we're approaching this, we want anybody and everybody, hopefully, to be able to vote for it. we'll continue to try to persuade people until the last moment and our hope is that that number will grow, obviously. but it is enough to sustain the president's veto. that's not satisfactory for us. we want to go further and we'll continue to persuade. but what's really important here, christiane, is not to get caught up in the process. it's to really look at this agreement. if this agreement were to be denied by the congress unilaterally after we have led the everyday to negotiate it and joined in good faith with france, germany, britain, china, russia and iran has signed up to this agreement, if the united states were to yuan launilaterae

away and say "we're not going to do this" it would have profound effects on our country and the national security of the nation and the region. iran would then be free to go do what it wants to do having showed up in good faith to make an agreement and it's the united states that somehow says no, we won't live by this. i think it would be extraordinarily damaging. but the politics are obviously intense and there are fears that people have about iran's compliance because of past events. what we're trying to point out clearly today, whatly say, is that this agreement is not based on hope or trust. this agreement is based on verification and on very specific steps that iran has to take. business in iran will not be able to take off because iran has done all of the things that it has to do in order to expand

the breakout time and live up to this agreement that could take six months to a year. so again nothing in this agreement is based on hope more to a signature. it's based on very specific things that have to be verified for the lifetime of this agreement. there's no sunset to this agreement. it is the lifetime of the agreement that must be lived up to. >> congress is scheduled to start debate on the iran nuclear deal next week with a vote expected after that and there's a number of democrats who haven't said which way they will vote on the deal. so far all republicans who have decided said they will vote against it. coming up, vice president joe biden is in florida for a major speech and fund-raiser so you better believe we're paying attention as we wonder, is he laying the ground work for a presidential campaign. ? stay with us. i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree.

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it has 30 billion probiotic cultures. feel lighter and more energized. ultimate flora. more power to your gut. president obama chooses a picture perfect setting for his campaign against global warming. he cruised across a bay in alaska and stood on a shrinking gl glacier and he says the warming is not just bad for the environment but national security. he pointed to russia's expanded military interests in the arctic. and a trip by vice president joe biden today is fuelling speculation about his political future. the vice president speaks next hour at miami-dade community college. he'll be promoting the obama administration's education initiatives and then later he attends a fund-raiser for democratic senate candidates. biden is currently weighing whether to jump into the

presidential race and the trip has touched off questions about whether he's laying the ground work for a campaign. the vice president's words will be scrutinized closely as many look for clues to which way he's leaning on a possible presidential run. today a new abc news/"washington post" poll shows the vice president and hillary clinton are in a virtual tie when it comes to favorability. joining me is cnn's political commentator s.e cupp and we have former minnesota governor jennifer granholm and a full disclosure, we should add, governor, you are working with correct the record which is a major outside group backing hillary clinton. i want to put that out there. so s.e, to you first. what is the biden strategy if he gets in the race? how does he differentiate himself from hillary clinton? >> i think he needs to acknowledge that courting progressives is not the right road for him. democrats have been losing a lot of older male blue-collar voters

and he is actually the perfect candidate to speak to that particular voter who might be a little turned off by hillary, definitely not into bernie sanders and but for biden might consider a republican so i would imagine that's the kind of campaign he would look to have if, in fact, he gets in. >> when you look, governor, at these public events that the vice president has over the next few days in key areas, key states, is he testing the waters? >> i think he's being a great vice president and highlighting the administration's policies. he's obviously evaluating this, everybody knows that he's watching. but, you know, the poll you cited today, if you look at the favorability among democrats, i mean, hillary clinton has an 80% favorability rating. she's got a 79% favorability rating among african-americans, 68% favorability among hispanics. all of those a little bit higher

than his. everybody knows a competitive democratic primary would be good for the party and everybody's going to give joe biden, who is wonderful, the space to make his decision. but those kind of numbers are the things he'll have to >> and certainly part of his calculation. s.e., the past few weeks we've seen donald trump taking several shots at jeb bush. this week bush hit back with an attack ad. trump followed suit this morning on abc's "good morning america." he addressed the new bush strategy. let's listen. >> he really had no choice, i think he had to go out with an ad. did a very expensive ad. let's see what's happened. so far everybody who has attacked me has gone down. let's see what happens here. >> who is winning this fight, s.e.? >> well, it's -- it's actually hard to say because if you look at the polls of registered republicans, most republicans are not with donald trump. most republicans, upwards of

70%, are split among other candidates. so if jeb's calculating i'm going to reach and talk to those guys, the people who actually care about your conservative record, then i think jeb is in it sort of with a long game in mind. i think what jeb has to do, and i see him sort of doing this, he's now attacking trump, especially with trump's new tax plan on his liberalism. i think you go against -- against his -- the narrative that he's anti-establishment, and i think the new tax plan is a perfect way to do that. raising taxes on the wealthy, i would say, if i were bush, sounds like something hillary clinton would do, you know. you have to make the case, donald trump, that you're actually anti-establishment when you've been voting for and donating to and supporting establishment politicians for most of your life. i think that's the better argument for jeb than to question his conservatism, because his supporters don't seem to care. >> they certainly don't, and they seem to really be motivated

by the fact that he's an outsider. what were you going to say, governor? >> i was going to say it's so interesting to watch from my perspective. >> oh, sure. >> because donald trump has clearly been goading jeb bush into attacking him, and so jeb bush does attack him and says he says nice things about hillary clinton, but then jeb bush is going to get an attack saying he, too, said nice things about hillary clinton. i mean, donald trump has pushed bush into being not the happy tortoise, as he said he wanted to be, but really the unhappy warrior. he is not in a place where he was at the start of this campaign to not say bad things about people, to really keep his eye on the long game. donald trump has single-handed by pushed jeb bush off his game, and now he's really flummoxed about where to go and he says all these crazy things when he's flummoxed, stuff about not paying for women's health care, anchor babies, all the mistakes he's making are all thanks, i

think, to the flummoxing that he has undertaken because of donald trump. >> i almost sense glee in your voice, governor, as you're a hillary clinton. >> when your adverse have i fighting your other adversary, you should put up your feet and break out the popcorn. >> i do want to get both of your takes on this. it's an announcement that cnn has made that we're amending the selection process for the upcoming republican debate which will be in a couple of weeks here, september 16th. it involves which polls are being considered to set this ten-person field for the second debate. who does this seemingly help the most, s.e., and who could be left out this time around, do you think? >> yeah, well, clearly it benefits carly fiorina even if cnn hasn't decide who had will end up in the september 16 debate. it looks like she will now be included. she had a great first debate

performance and wanted to build momentum after that which is hard to do if you're not named donald trump. she really did create a story line that she was being kept out of, you know, the main stage debate because the polling system, the criteria was wrong, and so she has a victory here, and i think all eyes will be on her and she has a really good opportunity to have another good debate performance. if that means, however, that someone like chris christie is left out, and i don't know that's the case, obviously, you know, that's not great news for any candidate first on the main stage and now won't be. >> i will make a quick point that the new change would add a candidate, possibly we could see even 11 candidates on the stage if this is a change. it's not going to subtract someone who would be under the full criteria. >> oh, good. >> governor, final thought to you on this. let's say all things being as

they are right now, carly fiorina ends up on that stage, been a big attack dog against hillary clinton, what would that mean for clinton in this debate? >> well, i don't think you're going to see anything new from her. i mean, she's like the other candidates. she's anti-choice. she's anti-marriage equality. she's anti-comprehensive immigration reform. she's anti-banning assault weapons. none that you're going to hear policy-wise anything different than what you've been hearing from the others. >> do you worry about a female candidate taking on your female candidate? >> well, i'm not -- she has probably, you're right, more freedom to attack a woman, you know, but i don't know that voters are eager to see, you know, a woman versus woman cat fight. i think it's really going to be in the end about which candidate is going to best help you in your circumstance as a voter, and i don't know that any of her policies are different than any of the other republicans who are going to be on that stage and

ultimately i think that's what voters will look at. >> i don't think it's necessarily going to be a cat fight. i think two women and maybe we're examples of that are capable of having a conversation without it being a cat fight. >> i'm so sorry. >> i hope so, for sure. >> i'll give you the final word next time, i promise. >> governor granholm, s.e. cupp, thanks to both of you. i'll be back at 5:00 with "the situation room." brooke baldwin is up right after the break.

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