hello, i'm wolf blitzer and this is a special edition of "the "the situration room."" we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. anderson cooper is with us tonight. the double-header here at the regan presidential library in se california. by all accounts this will be a lively, lively evening. >> it is electric in the auditorium and all 15 candidates will take the stage in the first matchup. the candidates are fighting just to stay in the race in the main event, of course, they will be focused on tripping up the front runner donald trump and getting their policies across.

the billionaire businessman says bring it on, a lot to look forward to tonight. >> and presumably well. trump leads the latest poll but a dead heat with another outsider, dr. ben carson and the latest poll out in new hampshire, carson is clearly closing the gap neck and neck with trump and carly fiorina is moving up. >> jeb bush is back in the pact. if they break out of single digits, they have to show they can take down donald trump and as they stand next to ronald reagan's air force one they have to standout as presidential material, they can lead in a time of crisis. >> huge, huge time. let's get the latest what is going on, moments away from the republican presidential debate. john berman is over here at the debate stage, john. >> wolf, i feel like i'm standing at the 18th green at the masters. forgive me as i speak in hush

tone because the audience is around me. four candidates in the first debate, those polling at the bottom of the polls, the second debate that begins at 8:00 p.m., 11 candidates arranged by their position in the polls, which means donald trump front and center, literally, ben carson will be on one side, jeb bush on the other. and when i say on one side, i mean close by side. these top separated by 20 inches. that is much closer than the first debate. these candidates will literally feel the presence of those right beside them. now, this debate will be a little bit different than the first one in another way, too. not so much back and forth between moderator, the questioners and candidates themselves but hopefully a discussion between the candidates, face-to-face looking at each other just inches away discussing the issues, where they agree and where they disagree and this audience one more time that i'm in between

now, it's a smaller crowd here nodding to me here. 500 people, not thousands like you saw in the basketball stadium before, intimate but intimate can sometimes mean even more tense. wolf? >> all right. john berman, thanks very much. we'll stay in close touch with you. anderson, there is electricity here, you have to admit. >> there is, a lot of excitement not just for this debate but the main debate that comes afterward. donald trump knows he's going to be the center of attention tonight as he has been. he's leading in the polls. his opponents, some of them may be on the attack against them we in addition to playing defense, he has to convince he has the temperament and ideas to be president. let's go to sarah murray, she's in a room overlooking the debate hall where the candidates will the gather. sarah? >> yeah, right now on my left there is room with the four candidates who will participate in the first debate. they are sitting in there chatting probably trying not to

let nerves show. any minute someone will come to escort them behind me and they will head to the debate stage. we're waiting on the arrival of donald trump who will take center stage in the later debate. the challenge for him is it seems like in recent weeks it's come to him that this is real. he's really a presidential candidate and talking about toning it down, trying to be a little nicer. when he gets to the debate stage, it will be a challenge to do that, tease policy specifics but maintain the flair, maintain the straight talk that's gotten him as high as he is. we'll have to see how donald trump navigates that line tonight. >> sarah, thanks very much. all of donald trump's rivals will be trying to make a big enough impression tonight to attract voters, donors to keep their campaigns alive. our senior washington core sp-- correspondent has a closer look. >> here are a couple things

we're watching. ben carson, he's been closing in the polls and donald trump across the country, as well as in the early states of iowa and new hampshire. carson advisors say he'll be a kinder and gent ler oler outsid. he'll show he's a different candidate than donald trump and will go to evangelicals, so key to this presidential process. of course, jeb bush, all eyes will be on jeb bush. most republicans thought that he would be the front runner at this point in the race. he's going to present himself as strong and forceful, but one advisor tells me he's not going to be loud and aggressive. he'll say all the things to donald trump he's been saying from long distance but also going to talk about policy. look for jeb bush to say he's oval office ready. finally, carly fiorina, the first time she'll be on this big stage. she's been having a war of words with donald trump from long distance. we'll see what she says

face-to-face with him. as john berman said earlier, these podiums are so close tonight, that changes the dynamic here. watch carly fiorina, she's so up on policy, we've seen her do so many interviews. she'll show she's ready for the job, as well. wolf? >> thanks very much. anderson, we're only minutes away from this debate. it doesn't get much bigger than this i should say. >> about nine minutes away or so, 8:52. this is the first round of debates between the four lower tier candidates and then the main debate happens after that. we're joined by cnn political commentator michael and cnn commentator and republican strategist anna navarro. so much to look for to keep score tonight. >> michael, let's talk about big issues that could come up in the course of this debate tonight. you've been talking to a lot of campaigns. whose going to be best able to take advantage of this conversation? >> wolf, i think tonight three

words are key, commander in chief. i think there is going to be a lot of foreign policy discussed, the head issue with regard to foreign policy. how do we defeat isis? this forum, just 500 people, not a big audience on which someone like donald trump can feed. i think it's going to force more substantive answers. opportunity for followup and he'll have to provide detail. >> they are asked who can best handle isis foreign policy and a lot name donald trump. >> i think these three questions, jake, dana and hue huet will demand specifics. >> anna, what do you think? >> i think we're going to see a lot more interaction among the candidates because i think a lot of them realize giving answers is not enough. they have to standout in this opportunity. it's a unique opportunity they are getting. there are some campaigning running on fumes. they really need to be able to

give a strong performance because they need to attract voters, attract donors and go up in the polls. i think you'll see a lot of energy from them. this is like the super bowl and you want -- you're rooting for your team but want a good game. >> you have 11 candidates on the stage, not a lot of time for each to get across or get into a lot of specifics. let's look at talk time from the last debate. >> here is a picture of the four candidates who are walking out, getting ready to walk on the stage. there you see them. these are the second tier candidates, as we say, all walking out to the stage. you see george, rick cantor rum, lindsey graham, the four questioned first, anderson, and that will set the stage for the main debate, the prime time debate, 11 republican presidential candidates. >> and in terms of talk time, donald trump got the most talk

time, more than 11 minutes. some of these other candidates tonight, it's critical they try to get as much time as possible to get ideas across. >> the best way to do that is engage him. if trump is the person to whom most of the attention will be given, you want to engage him and hope he takes you on. i think arguably, you're better off being one of the four on the stage that's about to play out right now than one of those candidates on the main stage because the entire nation is tuned in to cnn. this is, as anna said, a super bowl. getting a lot of attention for four individuals. i think you would rather be one of the four than one of the 11. >> i think you're totally wrong. there is not one of those four that would not want to rather be on the big stage. >> anna, isn't there a danger near taking on donald trump, one going toe to toe with somebody who is adapt at fighting and punching hard, counter punching

hard but takes up time from defining yourself and telling the your vision for the country. >> there is no option because he's such the shining object in this case that if you don't become part of that game we saw, bobby jindal tried in the last ten days, getting no attention so did an entire press event and speech around criticizing donald trump. >> it didn't work for rand paul. >> you know, a month has gone by since the last debate. i think they got their feet wet. i think they got their bearings about them, what it's like to be on a stage with this tv personality who is tv savvy. i think you'll see much more experienced debaters today. >> we're waiting for donald trump to arrive here at the ronald reagan presidential library. he's not here yet but should be arriving any moment now. so it fair to say in this prime time debate, the second debate, 11 republican candidates, he has emerged already as the star of the show. >> no doubt about it. i don't think there would be the level of interest in this debate

at this early stage of the campaign but for donald trump. wolf, i said previously i think there are two debates about a play out, not the jv debate and varsity debate. main stage you have maverick candidates like trump and carson and carly fiorina and then you've got establishment candidates and who emerges from each of those conknstituencies what you want to keep your eyes on. >> trump and dr. carson, trying to show themselves even if they have a long history in washington as being an outsider, though they have inside experience. >> that's true. the seasoned candidates, veterans know that things go up and down and change. let's remember that at this time in 2008, 2012, you had hillary clinton up by 19 points in 2008, you had rick perry ahead, you had rudy ahead.

>> there is danger for candidates playing a long game. nobody expected trump to be this successful and last this long at a certain point -- >> including the two of us. >> he's far out front. depending on gambling everything on donald trump imploding, that could be bad. >> i think the strategy of many of the campaigns and i've spoken to them is just to hang in there because it's an honest point, they think there is great fluid in the system. it's not going to remain as constant as it is now and you want to be there if and when he falls. >> anna, you're a friend of jeb bush and marco rubio but if somebody would have said to you not that long ago, his super pact, the pact that supports jeb bush is going to spend $25 million in the next few weeks in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina to try to jump start his campaign, which is in deep trouble right now, $25 million they were hoping to hold for more important days in the months ahead, you would have been surprised. >> i would have been surprised

if somebody told me he was going to have a super pact with 100 million. so it's proportional with what he was able to raise. >> it's not a good sign he's spending $25 million this early in the race. he would obviously prefer -- >> you would rather have the the money to spend -- >> donald trump is arriving here at the ronald reagan presidential library there is his vehicle. i think he's going to be arriving. that's what we're told. let's see if he walks out of this vehicle and gets ready to go inside. presumably he's going to watch the first debate and get ready for his debate. the first debate, anderson, are these four candidates, second tier candidates, almost all of them, at least three of them have indicated to me and to you that they are really going to go directly at donald trump in this first debate. they are not mincing any words. several of them are suggesting george says he couldn't vote for him if he's the republican nominee. >> the question is, will donald trump try to change tack or will

they say trump will be trump and dr. carson will be dr. carson and it's gotten them this far and why change anything now? >> if he were self-deself-depre it would be different. >> i think that's wishful thinking when he tries to be nice, at some point he goes back to his normal trump script. >> in fairness to donald trump, anderson, we've spoke to him, he'll go after you when you go after him first. he's not necessarily always going to simply start the fight, but if you start a fight, he'll finish it. >> look, there is a lot of anger out there and frustration -- >> hold on a second. here is donald trump, a picture of him. here he is finally arriving. there you see him in the front seat of the vehicle. he'll walk inside just in time for the start of this debate. donald trump walking into the ronald reagan presidential library. he didn't actually do the walk through earlier like so many of the other presidential candidates but then again, he doesn't do a lot of the stuff other normal presidential

candidates, republican presidential candidates or democratic presidential candidates do. he's walking in right now. we'll watch what is going on. in the meantime, anderson, you and i will be back after this first debate. we'll be here throughout the night. special coverage begins right now. it's debate night for the republicans. candidates here, pressure on and stakes are higher than ever. >> in the california hills, an epic remartch is about to begin against the backdrop of history and ronald reagan's legacy. when it's over, the fight for the nation's highest office won't be the same. >> how stupid are our leaders? how stupid are they? >> tonight a debate doubleheader, a chance to compare the candidates side by

side. >> i will be the greatest jobs president that god created. >> you notice jeb never uses his last name? w why. >> the early favorite, he stumbled as trump gained momentum. now he's hitting back, hard. >> this guy is now the front runner and should be held to account like me. >> outsiders on the rise, retired neurosurgeon and ceo. he's closing in on the leader. >> do i want to respond to donald trump's charges? i'm not going there. >> 11 other candidates are fighting to stand out from the pact. the senators, power players, distancing themselves from the culture of the capitol. >> if you see a candidate washington embraces, run and hide. >> chief executives with mixed

success with their bids to be commander in chief. >> you see talk is cheap. we need action. >> the campaign veterans, struggling in an election season when experience doesn't seem to count. >> today is the day we are going to begin to fight back. >> now the stage is set for a crowded clash. >> donald trump is an entertainer and i think i am a header. >> marriage is what it has always been and what the bible says it to be. >> and big personalities. >> i will build a great, great wall and i will have mexico pay for that wall. >> if you thought round one was intense, you haven't seen anything yet. [ applause ]

we're live at the ronald reagan presidential library for the highly anticipated debate. 15 candidates in two rounds of questioning with one goal, to show they have what it takes to be the republican presidential nominee. welcome to our viewers. i'm jake tapper. tonight's debate is airing on cnn networks around the world, and of course, here in the united states, it's also being broadcast across the country on the salem raid kndio network. we want to thank our hosts, nancy regan, the air force one pavilion behind me. you can see the actual plane that ronald reagan flew in when he was president. because the gop field is so large, we divided the candidates two two groups based on rankings. we'll hear from the top 11 contenders, the other four

candidates are taking part in fact first round and they are ready to join us now. senator lindsey graham of south carolina. [ applause ] >> louisiana governor bobby jindal. [ applause ] >> the former u.s. senator from pennsylvania, rick santorum. [ applause ] >> and former new york governor george pataki. [ applause ] >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome these republican candidates for president of the united states. [ applause ]

>> and now, if you would, please rise for the anthem performed by actress and singer natalee hill. ♪ oh say can you see by the dawn's early light ♪ ♪ what so proudly we hailed at the twilights last gleaming ♪ ♪ whose broad stripes and bright stars ♪ ♪ through the perilous fight ♪ or the rampids we watched were so streaming and the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the

night that our flag was still there ♪ ♪ oh say does star spangled banner yet wave ♪ ♪ for the land of the pre and the home of the brave ♪ [ applause ] >> i'd like to ask the candidates to please take the the podiums while i tell you a little more how debate's will work. i'm jack tapper. i'll be the moderator. joining me, hue huet worked in the regan administration and cnn's chief political correspondent dana bash. [ applause ] >> i will followup and guide the

discussion, candidates i'll try to make sure each of you gets your fair share of questions. you'll have one minute to answer questions and 30 seconds for followups and rebuttals. i'll give you time to respond if you have been singled out for criticism. we have timing lights visible to the candidates. those lights will warn them when their time is up. our goal tonight is to have a true debate, candidates actually addressing each other in areas where they disagree, where they differ on policy, on politics and leadership. now that everyone is in place, it's time for the candidates to introduce themselves to our audience. please keep it brief. governor pataki, you're first. >> hi, i'm george pataki, and i'm honored to be here this afternoon with all of you at the regan library. you know, when i think of ronald reagan, i think of his tremendous smile, a smile that reflected his optimism and unending belief in faith in

america and in americans, and it was that belief in america that led to a great presidency a presidency that led to decades of safety, security and prosperity for america. that's exactly the type of leadership we need in washington today, and that's why i'm running for president of the united states. thank you. [ applause ] >> hi, i'm rick santorum. some of you may know me because i led the the fight to end partial birth abortion. some of you may know me because the i led the fight to end welfare as you know it, put people back to work, reduce poverty and reduce the federal budget. some of you may know me because i successfully put sanctions on the iranian nuclear program in congress over opposition of both parties initially.

hopefully, most of you know me most because i'm the proud father of seven children with particularly a special little disabled girl who is the heart and core of my heart and married to a wonderful woman named karen for 25 years who is the love of my life. [ applause ] >> hi, i'm bobby jindal. look, i don't have a famous last name. my daddy didn't run for president. i don't have a reality tv show. i'll tell you what i do have, the backbone, band width, experience to get us through the tough times, to make sure we don't turn the american dream into the european nightmare. thank you for having me today. [ applause ] >> one, thanks cnn for having people at this debate. [ laughter ] >> i'm lindsey graham from south carolina in case you can't tell.

i want to thank ms. regan for inviting me. it means the world to me. i'm the only candidate tonight that served in the military while ronald reagan was our president and our commander in chief. it was one of the highlights of my life. i'm running for president to destroy radical islam, to win the war on terror, to protect you and your family and in that quest, i have an uncompromising determination to end this war, just like president regan had an uncompromising determination to destroy the evil empire and win the cold war. above all others on both sides of the isle, i'm most qualified to be commander and chief on day one. 33 years in the air force, 35 trips to iraq and afghanistan, i understand this war. i have a plan to win it, and i intend to win it.

[ applause ] >> thank you candidates. we'll talk a lot about policy and your proposal this evening but first, governor jindal, i want to start with you. you have said that the front runner, donald trump, is a quote unstable, narcissistic, ego man yak. what drove you to violate that unofficial come manlment. >> jake, i'm in compliance with the 11th commandment and i'll say let's stop treating donald trump like a republican. if he were really a conservative in and 30 points ahead, i would endorse him. he's not a conservative. he's not a liberal. he's not a democrat. he's not an independent. he believes in donald trump. here is the reality, the idea of america is slipping away. $18 trillion of debt, planned

parenthood selling baby parts and we can't afford the government we've got today. we've got a president who won't even say the words radical islamic terrorism. he declared war and a truce with iran. think about that. he's more worried about twinkies than a nuclear weapon. that's what is happening, the idea of america is slipping away. we must not let that happen on our watch. we have a once in a lifetime opportunity to rescue the idea of america, the choice for conservatives. do we depend on proving conservative principles like ronald reagan did or turn this over to a narcotic sissistic on believes in himself -- >> thank you, governor. >> santorum, do you think governor jindal is wrong for attacking your party's front runner? >> i think personal attacks, just please one person, hillary clinton and all we do when we go after each other and seen a bunch from people up on the

stage, people on the stage afterwards that make personal attacks on people, this are plenty of policy differences between the candidates up here and the candidates later. donald trump has ever right to run for president as a republican, as anybody else in this audience, and he may have positions i disagree with but he has the right to do that and the people should be given the benefit of the doubt for people to see through these things. i don't think it helps when republicans attack republicans personally. i'll say things tonight that will be very big differences. the issue of immigration is a huge difference in this field and i will be out there talking about how we have to control immigration. how we have to look after the american worker. the focus of this debate should be on how we're going to win this election and help improve the quality of life for american workers, and we wonaren't doing that picking at each other and calling names. the name we should call out is what are we going to do for average americans losing ground in america today --

>> thank you. governor jindal, do you want to respond? >> hillary clinton is running the weakest candidate, they had a socialist gaining on hillary clinton, folks, you can't make that up, a socialist is doing well in the democratic primary. the best way for us to give this election back would be to nominate a donald trump. he'll inploid in the general election but we have no idea. you can't attack him on policy. he doesn't care enough about policy. you can't say -- >> thank you, governor. >> he's not serious. >> senator santorum, we will get to those issues but a couple more on this general subject. senator graham, you called him a wrecking ball for your party. voters in south carolina in a recent poll prefer donald trump 30% to your 4%. how do you explain why your constituents would rather have donald trump as the republican nominee than you? >> all i can say if you look at polling in 2012 and 2008 at this

level at this stage we would have president perry and president juliani. i want to convince you i'm best qualified to be commander in chief for the 1% doing the fighting for the rest of us and we'll have a serious discussion tonight. all of us will say we want to destroy isil but here is what i'm going to tell you, what we're doing is not working and i have a plan to do it. if i'm president of the united states, we'll send more ground forces into iraq because we have to. president obama made a huge mistake believing too soon against sound military advice to every candidate tonight, are you willing to commit before the american people that you will destroy isil and you understand we need a ground force to do it? are you willing, jake? please ask everybody. will you go from 3500 to 10,000 american boots on the ground because if you don't, we're going to lose. are you willing to send american combat forces into syria as part

of a regional army, because if you don't we'll never destroy isil and syria. if you're not ready to do those things, you're not ready to be commander in chief. >> thank you, senator gram. [ applause ] >> thank you, jake. governor, you sienled t signed pledge to support the nominee. have you released donald trump to be a free agent again? >> hugh not at all. donald trump l not be the republican nominee, period, flat out i guarantee you that. i will vote for the republican nominee -- >> you said on twitter you will not support donald trump if he's the nominee. >> he won't be the nominee, huwett. this is an important election with an enormous number of challenges facing the american people and the first four questions are about donald trump. >> would you really vote for hillary clinton over donald trump if he's the nominee?

>> no, i will vote for the republican nominee but let me say this flat out, donald trump is unfit to be president of the united states or the republican party's nominee. look at what he did in atlantic city. he says he's going to make america great again. he invested four casinos in atlantic city and said essentially i'm going to make atlantic city great again. every one of those casinos went bankrupt, over 5,000 americans lost their job and you know people who in this difficult economic time have lost their job and the pain that causes. he didn't lose anybody, 5,000 lost their jobs. he will do for america what he did for atlantic city and that is not someone we will nominate. >> thank you, governor. senator graham, one of the reasons why donald trump, ben carson and carly fiorina are doing well is because they are political outsiders, in fact, that's one of the things --

there are two things they have in common. they have never been elected to office before. and they are doing better than all of you in the polls. the four of you have a combined seven decades in elected office. senator graham in this election season, do republican voters see your service in government as a liability and not an asset? >> well, what i hope republican voters, libertarian, vegetarians, democrats, you name it will look for somebody to lead us in a new direction domestically but particularly on the foreign policy front. president obama is making a mess of the world. what i'm trying to tell you here tonight that syria is hell on earth and it's not going to get fixed by insulting each other. i've been there 35 times to iraq and afghanistan. i'm ready to be commander in chief. i've been in the military 33

years. i am so ready to get on with winning a war that we can't afford to lose. i hope you believe that experience matters. it's an all voluntary force, folks. when you vote for commander in chief, they are stuck with your choice. we've had one navest being commander in chief. let's not replace one with another -- >> thank you, senator. >> if i thought i would win with more american ground forces i would tell you -- >> thank you, senator. >> they are coming here. >> thank you, senator. let's turn to the top pick of immigration. for that i'll bring in dana barb. >> governor jindal has supported a pathway to citizen ship for undocumented immigrants once the border is secure. why do you disagree? >> just about everybody in this field supports some pathway to citizen ship. senator cruz, rubio, jeb bush, a lot of others, graham.

all support amnesty at some point in time or another. this is really the interesting thing about this whole debate. this debate should not be about what we're going to do with someone here illegally. this debate should be about what every other debate on every other policy issue is in america. what's in the best interest of hard-working americans? what's in the best interest of our country? we had a focus because the other side set up here is who we have to be concerned about. someone who is here illegally and their family and what will we do about them? a great leader will see that the objective of every law in america is to do what's in the best interest of america. what's in the best interest of america right now is this look at wages, look at employment among wage earners. 70 to 90% of people that have come in this country are wage earnings holding wages down, taking jobs away from america.

>> your time is up. i want to get the governor to respond. >> i want to make clear everybody understands my position we need to secure the border period. we don't need a comprehensive plan or 1,000-page bill or amnesty. we need to get it done. as president i'll get it done in six months. it won't be perfect but we'll get it done. i'm not for amnesty. we need to secure the border. right now we got a weak one, right now, the left, hilary didn't like this, immigration without assimilation is invasion. they need to come here, learn english, roll up their sleeve skps and get to work. >> senator santorum, do you buy that -- >> because you don't call it amnesty, what everybody in this field is for is allowing people who are in this country illegally, people that broke the law to come into this country and came illegally and over stayed to stay in america. again, we have 35 million

people, we have the highest percentage of immigrants in this country as far as numbers ever as far as percentage, the highest in 105 years. wages are flat lined. the reason that you're seeing the angst and anger out there and the reason this issue has taken off is because workers in america know that their wages are undermined. if you look from the year 2000 to 2014, 5.7 net new jobs created. what percentage are jobs held by people not born here? all of them. the fact is american workers -- >> senator, your time is up. >> that's why they are upset. >> you really need to clarify your position because you say you're not for amnesty but have before for a path of citizenship. >> that's not right. i said secure the border, when that's done we will deal with the folks compassion netly, if you want to say rubio or jeb are

for, that's right. i've never been for amnesty, will never be for a.mnesty and secure the border. not enough to defend sanctuary cities and jail those mayors and councilmen as accessories for the crimes committed by people that shouldn't be here in the first place. >> thank you, governor. >> dana, i want to change the subje subject. we're staying on immigration. glove new york city pataki, they are debating the policy of granting u.s. citizen ship to every by baby born in this coun even if born to undocumented immigrants. senator graham wants to end it, governor pataki, you support keeping it. >> it's a small part of an important issue. let me comment on what my colleagues said. we have to secure the border. people have to come to america legally. that has to be step one. step two is we have to stop releasing criminals into the communities.

if you are charged with a crime as an illegal alien, you should be in jail or deported, not released as the obama administration has done. of course, we should out law sanctuary cities and hold them responsible, but we can't ignore 11 million people here. what are we going to do? we're not going to send them back despite somebody saying we're going to drag kids off of classrooms and send them back, but we have to send a message we're a nation that depends on the rule of law, and when your first act so to break the law, there has to be a consequence. i would require those who want to have legal status, not citizen ship come forward, acr knowledge they broke the law and do what we do when we want to sanction someone -- >> thank you. >> -- that is community service 200 hours work income a hospital or school. >> what i asked about is birthright citizen ship and why you think -- >> i don't think we should tell that child born in america we'll

send them back. the way to avoid that is have an intelligent immigration policy where we know who is coming here, why, so we don't have this flood of people coming here for the wrong reasons. >> senator graham, most countries in the world do not have birthright citizen ship. >> probably for a good reason. >> why do you think governor pataki is wrong. >> let's talk about immigration. number one, i like rick. i don't remember the santorum plan when i was in the senate. the peanut gallery on this is interesting. i have been trying to solve this problem for a decaddecade. there are no democrats here tonight. if you're here, raise your hand. welcome, thank you for coming. bottom line, i'm trying to fix the problem. we're not going to deport 11 million people here illegally but we'll start with felons and off they go. to the rest, you can stay but you got to learn our language. i don't speak it well but look how far i've come. speaking english is a good

thing. you have to pay taxes, a fine, you have to get back to the line, secure the border, they will keep coming. if you don't control who has the job, it will never end. we have two borders, one with canada and one with mexico. i've never met an illegal canadian. this is an economic problem. amnesty is doing nothing. to birthright citizenship, when we clean up this miss, i'm willing to look at the following. there are people buying tourists visas that go to resorts with maternity words for the purpose of having a child here in america. rich asians -- >> thank you, senator. >> that is bastardizing citizen ship. >> i just want to -- we'll come back to you -- >> he mentioned my name and i didn't have a plan. >> all right. >> i did have a plan back in 2006 i had a comprehensive border security bill that did in fact put the resources to build the fencing and deploy the

troops and the technology necessary -- >> what did you do with the 11 million? >> as you know, lindsey, 40 to 60% of the 11 million are here on visa over stays. we know exactly who they are. we should know where they are but we have a government that doesn't tell them to return home. you can solve half of the problem with the 1 1 million -- >> what about the other half? >> that's half your problem. >> how many democrats support your plan? how many democrats did you have on your bill? >> i don't know how many democrats -- >> i can tell you, none. >> the point is that i had a bill. >> that went nowhere. >> you're right, lindsey, it went nowhere because we had a president for more comprehensive -- >> george w. bush. >> that's right. >> who won with hispanics. >> you know what we need to do, lindsey? we need to win, we need to win fighting for americans. we need to win fighting --

>> hispanics are americans -- >> the people that hurt the most by illegal immigration are hispanics. >> in my world hispanics are americans. >> the folks who are hurt the worst are recent immigrants by illegal immigrants coming to the country last year alone 700,000 illegal immigrants came into this country. who do you think are most impact snd t ed? those who came and played by the rules and went to work and finding themselves out of work because someone is willing to come in and work for less. >> i have a different take where the country is going on this issue. number one, in 1950 there were 16 workers for every retiree. how many today? there is three. in 20 years there is going to be two and you'll have 80 baby boomers wanting a social security check. we'll need more legal immigration. let's make it logical and pick

people from all over the world on our terms, not just from mexico. let's have a system because we have a declining work force. trump thurman had four kids after he was 67. you need a new legal immigration system. >> thank you, senator. [ applause ] >> governor pataki, final word here. >> i have seven kids and done my part. >> governor pataki. >> we have to deal with the people here illegally. we can't ignore or send them back. my policy would work to make them part of an e economy that will grow and help america. >> i want to turn to another pressing immigration issue. over the next year, at least 10,000 syrian refugees will be allowed to enter the united states. governor jindal you said it's ridiculous for america to let more refugees in from syria and expressed concerns about security.

senator graham says the united states has a moral obligation to the syrian refugees. governor jindal, does the united states have any obligation to them? >> jake, america is the the most compassion et country in the world. we do more for folks around the world. one, let us draw a direct line between this crisis and this president's failed foreign policy. he drew a red line in syria and did not enforce it and now millions of refugees potentially, hundreds of thousands going into europe. the answer is not to put a band aid on this and allow more to come into america. we have a vetting process, norm normal refugee process. allowing more into the country doesn't solve the problem. the way to solve the problem is to be clear to our friends and allies that we'll replace assad and our friends don't trust us. enemies don't fear and respect us. i want to go back on immigration. let me be very clear. immigration, we need to insist on immigration, my parents came

here legally 45 years ago and followed the rule of law. they knew english and adopted the values. they did not come here to be hyphenated americans. we insist that on -- >> senator graham, your response with syrian refugees? >> how does president obama sleep at night? look what you let happen on your watch. your commanders said don't withdrawal from iraq. three years ago your entire nation national senator mccain and i begged you to do a no fly zone while it would matter but you said no. i'm not blaming bobby, i'm not blaming rick, i'm not blaming anybody, i'm blaming barack obama for this mess. >> thank you, senator. [ applause ] >> i want to turn now -- >> and i want to fix it. >> we're going to keep talking about the situation in the middle east. let me bring in my colleague dana bash again. >> thank you. senat

senator graham you mentioned you're calling for an additional 20,000 u.s. ground forces to fight isis in iraq and syria and you have said again this evening that anyone not willing to do that should not become-- be commander in chief. >> right. >> for iraq and syria, are you saying everybody to your right is not fit for the oval office? >> if they don't understand that barack obama's policies are not working that we're not going to destroy isil and iraq and syria from the air, they are not ready. what have i learned in 35 trips? i learned what works and what doesn't. we were in a good stop in iraq, president bush made mistakes but adjusted. to those who fought in iraq, you did your job and barack obama wasted it all. now we're in a spot where if we don't destroy isil soon, they are coming here. there are 3500 american boots on the ground. you would never know it hearing your president but we need about 10,000 to turn the tide of battle in iraq and there is

nobody left, dana, to train inside of syria. we spent $50 million training 54 people and they are down to four or five. they have been slaughtered so we need a region army, the turks, the jordans, the saudis, egyptians, get their armies up together and 90% of it will be them. they will pay for this war because we paid for the last two but 10% at least will have to be us and we're going in on the ground and we're going to pull it up by the roots and kill every bastard we find because if we don't, they are coming here. >> you're raising your hand. you're committing to this number of troops in iraq and on the ground in syria. >> i proposed 10,000 troops, i did so six or seven months ago we needed to deploy and do what lindsey said. >> he said 20,000. >> i said 10,000 and if more is necessary, look, the answer is this, once isis establishes a

califit, the game change. you have an ya of control you have to take ground from that because if you don't, then in the islamic world, it's seen as legitimate. if they have territory integrity, they have legit, so we must take their ground. >> thank you, senator. governor jindal? >> absolutely. we need to do whatever is necessary to hunt down and kill the radical islamic terrorists but the president helped contribute. he went to the pentagon the same week they announced they would cut back the number of troops in the army to say we won't win through guns, a change of hearts and minds. this will be a generational conflict, that is non-sense. they are burning, crew flying people alive. we need to hunt them and have a president willing -- >> thank

ground forces in syria as part of a regional army? are you willing to commit sources going in as a regional army to destroy the caliphate? >> lindsey, let me comment on this. last week was the anniversary of september 11th and i was governor on september 11th that led us through that horrible day. and i learned that we cannot assume that because radical islam is a continent away, it doesn't pose a threat to us here in america. it did then and today i think we are at greater risk of an attack than at any time since. we have got to destroy isis' ability to attack us here. but it's not 10,000 troops. it's not 20,000 troops. in my view, it's three things. first, we have to directly arm those fighting isis on the ground now. >> thank you, governor. sorry. we have rules and timing. governor jindal, i want to bring in and turn to a news in the story today. a 14-year-old student in texas was arrested for bringing a

homemade clock to school after being mistaken for a homemade bomb. police released the young man after determining it was a clock. today, president obama invited that student to the white house. governor jindal, throughout your campaign you've spoken many times about muslim extremists in this country. how would you, as president, strike a balance between vigilance and discrimination? >> well, jake, look, i think the american people -- we don't discriminate anybody based on the color of skin or creed. i think the way you strike that balance, you say to muslim leaders, they have two responsibilities. it's not enough to denounce violence. they have to denounce by name. and say these are not martyrs. they are going straight to hell. they are not going to enjoy their afterlife. secondly, they have to have the same expressed freedoms that they want for themselves and everybody else. the president says ft. hood was an issue of workplace violence. we are at war with radical

islam. our president loves to apologize for america, he goes to national prayer breakfast and criticizes christians. the way you strike the balance, you say to muslim leaders, denounce these fools, radical terrorists by names and say they are not martyrs. >> i'm afraid you didn't answer the question. how do you strike the balance between vigilance and discrimination? do you ever see the discrimination part of it? >> i don't think a 14-year-old should ever get arrested for bringing a clock to school. i'm glad that police are careful. i'm glad they are worried about security and safety issues. look, in america we don't tolerate them. the biggest discrimination is going on against christian business owners and individuals who believe in traditional forms of marriage. they are throwing this woman in jail in kentucky. let's talk about that. let's talk about the christian florist, the caterer, the musician, who said don't discriminate against us, don't shut down our businesses and

fine us thousands of dollars for believing marriage is between a man and a woman. >> we'll get to that later in the debate. senator graham? >> kim davis, i'm not worried about her attacking me. i am worried about radical islamic terrorists planning another 9/11. we're at war, folks. i want to have a legal system that understands the difference between finding a war and fighting a crime and here's the reality. young men from the mid-east are different than kim davis. we've got to understand that. >> thank you, senator. >> islamic websites need to be monitored. >> if i can comment on this. yes, kim davis is different from islamists radicalists from the mid-east. on the other hand, we have run rule in america, an elected official can't say i'm not going to follow that law if it conflicts with my beliefs. i think she should have been fired and if she worked for me, i would have fired her.

we have to uphold the rule of law. jake, imagine one minute that was a muslim who said i don't believe in gay marriage and refuse to perform that wedding. we wouldn't have had that outrage. there's a place where religion supercedes the rule of law. it's called iran. it shouldn't be the united states. >> we'll get to that subject in the next block. we're going to take a very quick break. when we come back, both jeb bush and donald trump agree on one thing when it comes to taxes. we'll see if any of the candidates on stage agree as well. that's next. stay with us. [ applause ] [ music playing ]

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welcome back to the cnn republican debate at the beautiful reagan library in simi valley valley, california. before we took the break, you were all chomping at the bit at kim davis, governor pataki said he would have fired kim davis, the kentucky clerk jailed for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses.

senator santorum, do you agree with george pataki. >> a young woman was challenged about her fact and refused to deny god. we saw her as a hero. today, someone who refuses to defy a judge's unconstitutional verdict is ridiculed and criticized, chastised because she is standing up and not denying her god and her faith. that is a huge difference in 16 years. people have a fundamental right in the first amendment. there's no more important right. it is the right that is the trunk that all other rights come from and that's the freedom of conscience. when we say in america that we have no room, how many bakers, how many florists, pastors, how many clerks are we going to throw in jail because they stand up and say, i cannot violate

what my faith says is against its teachings. is there not room in america? i believe there has to be room. first, i believe we have to pass the first amendment defense act which provides that room for government officials and others who do not want to be complicit in what they believe is against their faith. second, we need, as a president, who is going to fight a court that is abusive, that has superceded their authority, judicial supremacy is not in the constitution and we need a president and congress to stand up to a court when it exceeds its constitutional authority. >> thank you, senator. [ applause ] >> governor pataki, your response? >> my response is kind of, wow, we're going to have a president who defies the supreme court. >> i hope so. if they are wrong. >> then you don't have the rule of law. >> i have judicial supremacy. you don't have the rule of law when the court has the final say on everything. >> the elected representatives

of the people always have the opportunity to change that law. the supreme court makes a determination but it's ultimately the elected officials who decide whether or not that would be accepted. by the way, if i had a chance to lead this country, i will appoint judges who understand that role. they are not going to be making law but interpreting the law that is passed. there's a huge difference between an individual standing up and saying i am going to stand for my religious rights. i applaud that. you should be able to engage in religious beliefs the way you see fit but when you take an oath of office to uphold the law, all of the laws, you cannot pick and choose. >> martin luther king wrote a letter from the birmingham jail and said in that letter that there are just laws and unjust laws. and we have no obligation to

condone and accept unjust laws. and then he followed that up and said what's an unjust law. an unjust law is a law that goes against the moral code or god's law or the natural law. i would argue that what the supreme court did is against the natural law, god's law and we have every obligation to stand in opposition to it. >> jake, i didn't agree with the supreme court's decision but it is the law of this land and i'm a great admirer of martin luther king and he was prepared to break the law but it wasn't in an office of political power. it was civil disobedience where what he was willing to do is voluntarily go to jail with his followers to send a message to the elected representatives that these laws were wrong and had to be changed. and because of his courage, we didn't ignore the courts. we changed the laws that made america a better place. that's the way to do it. >> thank you, governor. >> jake, i've got a practical

question. i'd like the left to give us a list of jobs that christians aren't allowed to have. if we aren't allowed to be clerks, bakers, musicians, caterers? are we not allowed to be elected officials, i want to make this important point, the first amendment rights, the right to religious freedom isn't breaking the law to exercise our constitutional rights. america did not create religious liberty. religious liberty created the united states of america. it's the reason we're here today. >> senator graham, do you want to weigh in? >> i wasn't the best law student. by the end of this debate it's the most time that i've spent in any library. but on the first day in law school, it's a group in our constitutional democracy that interprets the constitution as to what it means is the supreme court. and in a 5-4 decision by the

supreme court, they have ruled that same-sex marriage bans at the state level violate the 14th amendment to the united states constitution, equal protection clause. i don't agree with it but that is the law of the land. but as president, what i want to make sure of is that everybody in this room, christian, jewish, muslim, whatever religion that you can practice your faith without government interference, you can marry people consistent with the tenants of your faith. that's the number one obligation of my presidency, is to protect religious people when they exercise their religious rights. but this decision is the law as it is of right now. and here's the one thing i want to tell you. >> thank you, senator. >> wait a minute. for the wedding cake baker, or the gay couple or the baptist preacher radical islam would kill you all if they could. let's not lose sight of the big picture. >> thank you. i want to stick with the supreme

court justices. governor jindal, both senators graham and santorum voted to confirm chief justice of the united states john roberts who has led with the majority twice to uphold obamacare. do you think that graham's and santorum's votes to confirm john roberts were a mistake? >> i think putting roberts -- i think putting kennedy, i think putting before them, was a mistake but, look, the first responsibility starts in the white house. the reality is, conservatives have not been willing to stand up for our beliefs. you'd never worry where the democratic judge would vote. you never had a democratic judge say, surprise, i've woke up and i'm a conservative. we have presidents trying to find judges with no rulings or records. i'm going to have a litmus test. for judges, i'm going to find judges that are conservative, judges that are going to be

pro-life and follow the constitution. judges, by the way, that are going to follow the american law, not international law. they are not there to appoint international law. judges understand their job is not to write law. it's time for a republican president as a commander in chief i will appoint bold judges that will be conservatives and enforce -- >> thank you, governor. senator, want to give you an opportunity to respond senator graham, do you stand by your vote for john roberts? >> he's one of the most qualified man to ever come before the united states senate and i don't agree with his decision but 99 times out of 100 i will. to the republicans, the biggest prize on the table in 2017 is the presidency. if it is hillary clinton, joe biden or bernie sanders, they are going to pick people that we will disagree with all the time.

please understand, we have to win this election. the court's at stake. it's the most important reason for us to turn out, to make sure we don't lose the judiciary for decades to come. >> senator santorum, do you stand by your vote for john roberts? >> contrary to what governor jindal said, justice roberts had a long record and it was a long, good record and so he made a bad decision on a couple of bad decisions on obamacare but he's made a lot of great decisions, too. and so i don't -- i don't regret at all standing up for john roberts but, you know, it's easy to sit out in louisiana and talk about how i'd be tougher. i thought when i was in the united states -- we fought for the first time to defeat justices and judges that bill clinton nominated and i fought with president bush to defend his nominees, to push even a filibuster, breaking the filibuster. i led that fight against someone who didn't want to end the

filibuster in order for us to get good, conservative justices. so i have been there on the front line fighting for judges and conservative justices and i will do so as president like none other. >> governor jindal, i'll give you 30 seconds to respond. >> it's not a minor ruling. justice roberts twice rewrote the law to save obamacare, creating new entitlement when we can't afford the government we've got today, an expansion of socialism in our country. it's not that he got a minor ruling wrong. this is twice he rewrote the law. they give great speeches in the senate. i've signed the executive order and signed the law protecting religious liberty in the state of louisiana. the one he got wrong was a big one. twice he bent over backwards to save obamacare. in republicans voted the way we should have, we would still have our tenth amendment rights and obamacare would not be the law of the land. >> hugh hewitt? >> governor jindal just said it's all about winning and if

former secretary of state is the successor, none of this matters. in the elite they have a nice way of saying things about them and saying a national treasure, can anyone inside of washington win this election cycle having praised secretary of state clinton that way? >> no. and it's not only whether they can. they shouldn't win this election cycle. one of the things i do agree and i want to thank donald trump after i criticized him for everything from being narcissist to an egomaniac, it's time to fire all of them. i've got a choice between honest socialists on the left, like bernie sanders, and conservatives on the right. they said they were going to stop amnesty and repeal obamacare. they didn't do either. mcconnell has waved the white flag of defeat. they are not willing to stand up for the issues that count. i think it's time to have term

limits. i think it's time to have them being six-figure lobbyists and let's keep them out of d.c. let's make them live under the statement rules and laws that they apply to the rest of us. they can't be elected. let's fire all of them from their current positions. >> senator graham, you're having a good debate but there is this problem of washington elites and saying wonderful things about each other. >> i've been called a lot of things but never an elite before. my dad owned a liquor store and a poolroom. >> is that responsive to calling hillary clinton a national treasure, senator graham? >> i introduced her at a conference about africa. i thought secretary clinton did a good job when it came to dealing with our jobs in africa, particularly among women. george w. bush set $40 billion aside and rick santorum helped him and president bush wiped out

an entire -- wiped out aids and malaria for young african children. secretary clinton did a good -- here's my problem with secretary clinton. where the hell were you on the night of the benghazi attack? how did you let it become a death threat to begin with and why did you lie about what happened to these people? if you want a new change in terms of foreign policy, don't pick her because she's his secretary of state. i've got a real good chance of beating her because i don't say things bad about her all the time just when she deserve it is and her definition of flat broke and mine are different. >> senator, can you go back and forth that way and expect to have an argument with the american people to persuade them about that. >> ronald reagan did a couple of really big things we should all remember. he sat down with tip o'neil, the most liberal guy in the entire house. they started drinking together. that's the first thing i'm going to do as president. we're going to drink more.

[ applause ] and two great irishmen, they found a way to save social security from bankruptcy by adjusting the age of retirement from 65 to 67. so, yes, i will say nice things at times about democrats. yes, i will work with them. i will put the country at a party. absolutely i want to work with them. at the end of the day, hugh, i'm lucky to be standing here. i'm the first in my family to ever go to college. neither one of my parents finished high school. darlene's here with me tonight. we owned a restaurant -- >> thank you, senator. >> wait a minute. >> thank you, senator. >> you asked me a question. this is important. republicans need to tell the american people we get it as to who you are. when my mom died, i was 21. when my dad died, i was 22. we were wiped out financially. if it weren't for social security survivor benefit check, we wouldn't have made it. i don't need a lecture from democrats about social secure.

>> thank you, senator. >> i want to save it, just like ronald reagan did. >> let's talk about the economy, if he could. governor pataki, jeb bush and donald trump are both proposing raising taxes on hedge fund managers who pay at a lower rate. you were the governor of new york, home of wall street. do you agree that hedge fund managers need to be paying a higher rate? >> i would throw out the entire corrupt tax code. it's a symbol of the corruption and power that the special interests and lobbyists in washington. it's 74,000 pages of incomprehensible gobblygook. i'd get rid of the 1.4 million every year in exemptions and loopholes and lower the rates. the average american person is paying higher taxes than they should because of loopholes and one of them is that carried interest loophole. i would tax that income the same as ordinary income. i'd lower the rate to 24% for all americans but i would not give a special break to the wall

street fat cats. >> so you are with jeb bush and donald trump? >> it's hard for me to say i'm with donald trump on anything but on this issue i agree with him. but let me just make one other point. it's not just throwing out the tax code to break the back of the special interests that control washington. it's other reforms. i would propose a law right now there are over 400 former members of the house and senate who are registered lobbyists in washington. i would propose a law on day one, there's a lifetime ban on you ever being a lobbyist in washington, d.c., you get elected, you go back home. you don't stay and support the special interests. >> governor jindal -- governor jindal, that's three republicans running for president who support hedge fund managers paying a higher rate. are you the fourth? >> two things. jake, i'm absolutely for all of these carve-outs and special interests and loopholes for lobbyists. so as part of an overall

comprehensive tax reform that has a lower tax code, sure. as a single, i want to raise taxes, no. the government has grown over this government where it's going to overwhelm the american economy. nobody else running for president has done that. i'm the only candidate. i've cut my state budget 26%. everybody else talks about it. we have done it. there's a part of overall tax reform that cuts rates, lowers the tax code, sure. i'm not for raising taxes on anybody. we already have too much money going to d.c. >> i want to bring in my colleague dana bash. >> senator santorum, you just heard governor jindal and governor pataki talk about tax reform. jeb bush has proposed a tax reform plan and in it he limits deductions, including the popular home mortgage deduction. would you do the same as president? >> actually, i'm going to be proposing a plan, i call it the 20/20, a 20% flat tax on income, 20% flat tax on capital gains

and on corporations. we eliminate all the deductions, special interest provisions and corporations. we deal with the carried interest issue because everybody pays the same 20%. there's no advantage as to how you take your income. that will create growth. we're going to allow expensing for corporations. for manufacturing, again, i pledge when i announced that i was going to run for president on a factory floor that i would make america the number one manufacturer in the world. why? because we need to put americans back to work. hardworking americans are not doing well in this economy. people from all skill levels are going to be able to work. we put a 20% rate on corporations. we're competitive with every country in the world. we allow for expensing, a three-year phase-in and start at 0 for manufacturing and get it up to 20. you're going to see an enormous investment of capital and equipment and you're going to have problems finding folks to be able to work in manufacturing, that's how many jobs we're going to create.

the answer is, we're going to lower and flatten taxes, put government on a budget, a 10% across the board -- >> time is up, senator. >> we've got a lot of plans. >> governor, just to bring you back into this, you said that you would be okay with what is effectively raising taxes on a hedge fund manager as part of a tax reform plan. would you also be for doing away with people's deductions for their mortgage interest? >> no, i would not. i would keep that deduction. i would lower the rates dramatically. yes, that route would pay more but everybody else is going to pay less. i would keep the home mortgage deduction, the charitable deduction and others. by the way, i agree with rick on manufacturing but my approach is different. i would pass a rate on manufacturing of 12%, the lowest in the developed world so we can make things in america again. i know how important those jobs are. when i went through college, christmas and summer vacations, i worked in a factory. my grandparents worked in a

factory. we have the opportunity now with lower energy costs, with the world labor costs getting higher to make things in america so we don't have to worry about china. lower the tax burden on manufacturing and improve the work skills of americans. get rid of job-killing regulations. >> thank you. >> we're going to change america. >> you're going to be involved in the next question. senator graham -- >> he talked about that he would be better in manufacturing. the fact is, we have a zero percent rate that phases to 20. we have a 7% invested in plant equipment here and create more jobs. >> thank you, sir. senator graham, i want to turn to the -- >> if you want to see manufacturing, come to south carolina. >> let's talk about south carolina, sir. let's turn to minimum wage. senator santorum is the only person on this stage that has p proposed increasing the federal minimum wage. do you agree with senator

santorum that the minimum wage should be increased? >> when my mom and dad owned the restaurant, the bar, the poolroom, if you had increased minimum wage, it would have been hard to hire more people. hillary clinton has a list a mile long to help the middle class. we're talking all around this. the middle class for the last 6 1/2 years has been squeezed and squeezed hard. to the middle class, i understand who you are. you are one broken down car from not going on vacation. you're from one sick child away from having to change your whole budget. here's what i want to do as your president. i want to grow this economy. when boeing came to south carolina to build a 787, everybody paid more, they would have lost their employees to boeing. if you're a waitress out there wanting more money, i'm not going to increase the minimum wage, i'm going to try to create an environment to hire you at a higher rate or they'll have to pay more to keep you.

you have to create jobs in this country. banking is locked down because of dodd/frank and nobody has talked about the he wielephant e room which is debt. we need to come up with a plan to get out of debt. >> senator graham, thank you so much. senator santorum, senator graham is suggesting that your proposal would not allow south carolina to hire more workers. >> what you're basically saying, whatever republicans are up here saying is we are against the minimum wage. if you're not for increasing it, the answer is the republicans don't believe in a floor wage in america. fine. you go ahead and make that case to the american public. i'm not going to. not from a party that supported bailouts. i didn't but this party did. not from a party that supports special interest tax provisions for a whole bunch of other

businesse businesses. and when it comes to hardworking americans at the bottom of the income scale we can't provide some level of income support. what i proposed is not anything that the president has proposed. i believe that would be harmful to the american public. but a 50 cent increase over three years, we would have a minimum wage roughly in the area of what it's been historically, 5% of wages. to me, if you're going to talk to 90% of american workers, by the way, 90% of the american workers don't own a bar. they don't own a business. they work for a living. most of them are wage earners. and republicans are losing elections because we're not talking about them. all we want to talk about is what happened to our business. there are people who work in that business. i was at the convention four years ago and on the signs of all of the seats the night i spoke was a sign that said, we built that because barack obama had talked about how businesses didn't build their own

businesses. then we trotted out one small business person after another for almost an hour that night talking about how they built their businesses and that's wonderful. but you know what we didn't do? we didn't bring one worker on that stage. how are you going to win, ladies and gentlemen? how are we going to win if 90% of americans don't think we care at all about them and their chance to -- >> thank you, senator. we have to take a quick break. when we come back, confrontation or negotiation, how will these candidates attempt to handle russian president vladimir putin? that's next. [ applause ]

i've spoken of the shining city all my political life. god blessed and teeming with people of all kinds... living in harmony and peace. trump: they're bringing crime. they're rapists. if i am elected they're... going to be out of there day one. reporter: do you think birth right citizenship should be ended? walker: yeah, absolutely. cruz: i think we should end birth right citizenship trump: i will build a great, great wall... in my mind it was a tall proud city built of... rocks stronger than oceans. and if there had to be city walls... the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. that's how i saw it and see it still.

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. . [ applause ] and we're back at the cnn republican debate at the reagan library in beautiful simi valley, california. let's turn to issues of foreign policy. senator graham, you all oppose the u.s. nuclear deal with iran. former u.n. ambassador john bolton, a republican, is pushing for a u.s. military strike against iran, against its nuclear facilities. senator graham, would you authorize, as president, a nuclear strike against -- i'm sorry. a strike against iran's nuclear facilities? >> if i believed they were trying to break out and get a bomb, absolutely. here's the most important thing. they know i would if i had to. and none of us are going to be able to defend this country adequately until we rebuild our military. a weak economy, a military in

decline, the world on fire, does that sound familiar to you? michael, does that sound familiar to you? the first thing i'm going to do as commander in chief on day one is call the chairman of the joint chiefs and say, what do you need that you don't have? we're cutting our military, we're on track to have the smallest army since 1940, the smallest navy since 1915 and john kasich says he wants to close more bases. i want to rebuild our military and i want the iranians to know that if i had to, i would use it. the worst nightmare in the world is a radical islamic regime with a weapon of mass destruction. they are on track to get a bomb even if they don't cheat. this deal is a nightmare for israel. they are coming here if we don't watch it. terrorism with a nuclear capability sponsored by iran. yes, i would use military force to stop them. i would set this deal aside and

get you a better deal. if you gave $100 billion, i could get almost anybody out of jail. we couldn't even get our hostages out of jail. >> governor -- [ applause ] >> i'm going to go to hugh hewitt for a question for governor pataki. >> i want to quote rick santorum. if you're a scientist owe working on a nuclear program for a bomb for iran, you are not safe. does that message work? does anything that works on the table? >> not on the table but i think there's a lot that does work. and that is, to have a strong america, a strong military and a resolve for the iranians know that not only are we going to reject this deal on day one and reimpose sanctions but if they move forward with the nuclear program, their safety for those facilities will be at risk. i'll tell you a couple of things i'd do. i'd give the israelis a chance

to make sure they never have a nuclear weapon. let me point out that hillary clinton supporting this deal, she was the senator from new york on september 11th, she saw what happened at the hands of radical islam. this was a senator that did the reset program with russia who allowed the middle east to deteriorate and lied about benghazi and is now supporting the iranian deal. that's the opponent we're going to have next november. we have got to win this election. everything we say is wonderful. but we have to win and once we win we have to actually do what we say. i can do this. >> senator santorum, any means necessary? is that what you meant to say? is that what is still on this table what many believe is a catastrophic deal? >> hugh, 12 years ago i authored a program and came within four

votes of passing a very strong version of that. the people who opposed me were joe biden, hillary clinton and barack obama and we came short and i've been laser-beamed focus on the issue with iran. you know why? because i understand who they are. yes, they are radical islamists, that's true. but their particular version of it, they believe in bringing an end to the world. if you poll shiites in the region, more than two-thirds of them believe that the end of the world is going to come within their lifetime. why? because their regime preaches it. they believe in bringing about the end of times. that's their theological goal and we are in the process of giving them a nuclear weapon to do just that. that's why on day one i would say to the iranian government, you open up all of these facilities for inspection, you make them available to the u.n. and to the u.s., everything, we can go everywhere or else we

will take out those facilities. and when people say you're going to start a war, my response is, no, i'm going to stop a war because a nuclear iran is the end. >> thank you, senator. senator graham -- [ applause ] >> i'd like to answer that question. >> we're bringing you into this question as well. senator graham, vladimir putin in recent days has sent an estimated six tanks, four helicopters and russian ground troops into syria to help support president assad, an enemy of the united states. the russian military is also buzzing american planes and naval vessels around the world. your front-runner, donald trump, says he can do deals with president putin, that the two of them will get along, quote, very well. why would your confrontational approach work better than mr. trump's negotiation? >> do you think putin would be in the ukraine or syria today if ronald reagan were president? no. this is what happens when you have a weak, unqualified

commander in chief who doesn't understand the role america plays in the world. why is it bad for you that russia is helping assad? he's the magnet for sunni extremists. the syrian people are not going to accept him as their legitimate leader. by assad being helped by russia, it means the war never ends. it means the next 9/11, which is most likely to occur from an attack from syria, is more likely. at the end of the day, if i'm president of the united states, i've told you what i'm going to do. there is nobody left in syria to train. we're going to get a regional army who doesn't like isil, who won't accept assad because he's a puppet of iran. we're going in on the ground and we're going to destroy the caliphate, pull it up by its roots and hold the territory. this is a slap in the face from putin to carry an obama. assad must go. if he doesn't go, this war never ends and if the war in syria

continues, it is coming here. for god's sakes, let's get on with fixing the problem of syria. >> governor jindal, how would president jindal get the russians out of syria? >> jake, i want to answer that question and go back to iran. i didn't get a chance to answer that as well. look, on russia, across the world dictators walk all over this president. he treats our friends like dirt, let's our enemies walk all over us. the only group he's able to outnegotiate are the senate republicans. instead of a two-thirds vote to reject the iran deal, i want to ask lindsey a question. will the senate republicans, they still have time, are they willing to use the nuclear option, meaning get rid of filibusters to stop iran from becoming a nuclear power, now is the time for the senate republicans to stand up and fight. we are tired of the establishment saying there's nothing we can do. all night tonight we've heard republicans say, the supreme court ruled there's nothing i can do about religious liberty. the president did, this there's nothing we can do for two more years. >> we won the senate and the

house. what was the point of winning those chambers? you're going back tonight and still have time before the thursday deadline. will you all use the deadline to stop iran from having nuclear power? >> you were in the congress and if you want to repeal obamacare, get a new president. if you want to defund planned parenthood, elect a pro-life president because that's the only way. if we pass the cardin bill, it would go to the president and he would veto it. 67 votes are required to override the veto. wait a minute. you asked me a question. i don't want to take off the table the ability to slow down obama in his last 13 or 14 months because i want 60 votes to stop what i think he's going to do between now and january 2017. five republicans deflect -- leave, we're in trouble. so, folks, the world really is

the way it is. president obama is president. the goal is to get him out of there and pick somebody who would actually do something to repeal obamacare, who would get you a better agreement. bobby, he would veto the bill. we don't have 67 votes and you had given away a defense against obama for the rest of his presidency. no, i'm not going to do that. i'm not going to tell you things i can't do. i'm not going to tell you by shutting the government down we're going to defund obamacare as long as he's president. that hurts us. i'm trying to lead this party to winning. >> lindsey, that's my frustration. you basically heard a senate republican say we can't defund planned parenthood, despite these barbaric videos. maybe answer this question now. i wish they had half the fight that the senate republicans did. president obama didn't give up on obamacare when they lost in massachusetts. they broke the constitution, they broke the law but they forced obamacare down our

throats even when they didn't have 60 votes. i wish republicans in d.c. had half the fight the senate democrats to get rid of obamacare, to defund planned parenthood. if we can't defund planned parenthood now, it's time to be done with the republican party. we defunded them in louisiana. let's defund them in d.c. if we can't win on that issue, there is no point for being cheaper democrats, no point for having a second liberal party. it's time to get rid of the republican party, start over with a new one that's at least conservative, give harry reid and pelosi credit. at least they fight for what they believe in. i want senate and house members to fight for what we believe in as well. it's time to have republicans with a backbone in d.c. >> can i just say something? bobby, we're running to be president of the united states. the most important job in the free world. with it comes a certain amount of honesty. i'm tired of telling people things they want to hear that i know we can't do.

he is not going to sign a bill that would defund obamacare. if i'm president of the united states, i wouldn't put one penny in my budget for planned parenthood, not one penny. i'm as offended about these videos as you are. but the one thing i'm not going to do going into 2016 is shut the government down and taint our ability to win. what you're saying and what senator cruz is saying, i am really sick of hearing. trying to get the republican party in a position to win is what i'm trying to do. that does matter to me. >> thank you, senator. the final questions for these four republicans as the top contenders get ready to take their places on the debate stage when we come back, right after this. [ applause ]

big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

[ applause ] welcome back to the cnn republican debate at the reagan library in beautiful simi valley, california. we have time for one more question for the candidates. governor pataki, let's start with you. you have all spent the last hour and a half debating each other. the other 11 candidates are on their way to the stage. what is the one thing as a

candidate that you offer that no one at the next debate can offer? >> i think there are two things, jake. two things that we need as republicans. first, we have to win the election. you're going to hear a lot of great ideas, i'm going to do this, i'm going to do that. none of it matters unless you win the election. and the second is, once you win, you have to be able to governor successfully. you've heard a lot of fighting back and forth, you didn't get this done, that done, that's the way washington is today. you have to have a leader, a president, who will get a conservative agenda through. i'm running because i have done both those things and i did them, one of the most liberal states in america. i get elected three times in the state of new york. twice by the largest pluralities ever for a republican. i ran as a republican conservative. if i get the nomination, i will be able to get broad support and win this election and take the white house back for our party. but more importantly, once i've won, i will put in place a sweeping conservative agenda.

i did that in new york. over $143 billion in tax cuts. more than the other 49 states combined. taking one million people off welfare and putting them into jobs in a state where the democrats control the state assembly. >> thank you, senator. >> 103-47. i got them to support a conservative agenda. if i get elected president, i will make things work in washington. for the republican party and for the united states. >> thank you, governor. senator santorum? [ applause ] >> i came to washington in the most unlikely way. i defeated a 14-year incumbent. i went to washington thinking i was only going to be there for one term and so i just shook things up. we sent the chairman of the house ways and means committee to jail. we ended 40 years, 40 years of democratic control of the congress. and i led that fight with reforms, substantive reforms,

welfare reform. i wrote the bill when i was in the house. i led the charge in the united states senate. partial birth abortion, bipartisan pro life bills. i mentioned the iran bill. we also passed one on syria. health savings account. i authored the original bill on health savings accounts, pushed that for private health care reform. an outsider who came to washington from the tough state of pennsylvania and we got conservative things done. i made things happen in a town where things don't happen very much. now after ten years of seeing the mess, the retreat that we see in the republican party in washington, d.c., it's time to get someone who is an outsider. >> thank you, senator. >> who can go to washington, d.c., and get things done. you know what, you have a lot of folks who will tell you a lot of things. look at their record. i went to washington as an outsider. >> thank you. >> shook things up, got things done. >> thank you, senator. >> that's why you can trust me to do it again.

>> governor jindal, what is something that you offer as a candidate that the other 11 candidates coming on stage in a few minutes cannot offer? >> jake, i'm a doer, not a talker. look, the idea of america is slipping away from us. if you want to make incremental changes, vote for somebody else. if you want to vote for somebody who understands what is at stake, planned parenthood is selling baby parts across this country and the senate republicans have already given up, even without a fight. i am tired of this caucus and angrier at the republicans in d.c. than i am at the president. the president is a socialist. at least he fights for what we believe in. we need to send somebody who understands it's time to make big changes. it's time to take on the establishment and take on the d.c. permanent governing class. every republican says they will shrink the size of the government. i'm the only one that has done it. cut our government 26%. it's time to get the idea of

america back. at some point you'll be asked what did you do when the idea of america was slipping away? i promise you this, i will give every ounce of blood, energy and sweat i've got to save the idea of america, the greatest country in the history of the world. >> thank you, governor. [ applause ] senator graham? >> number one, i will win a war that we can't afford to lose. i have a plan to destroy radical islam because it has to be. these are religious nazis running while president obama has made one mistake after another and it's caught up with us. what i have to offer that's different? i get my foreign policy from being on the ground. i've been to iraq and afghanistan 35 times in the last decade trying to understand how we got in this mess. our leading candidate gets his foreign policy from watching television. and what i heard last night is the cartoon network, oh, i'm big, i'm strong, we're going to hit them in