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>> thank you, candidates. we're going to talk a lot about policies and proposals. but first, governor ginnajindha want to start with you. you said barack obama is an egomaniac.

what broke you to if we were really a conservative, i would endorse him. he's not a liberal, a conservative, a republican, an independent. he believes in donald trump. here's the reality. the idea of america is slipping away. planned parenthood selling baby parts across the country. we can't afford the government we've got today. we have a president who won't say the words radical islamic terrorism. he's more worried about twinkies than he has about the ayatollahs as a weapon. we must not let that happen on our watch. we have a once in a lifetime opportunity. to rest cue the idea of america, the choice for

conservatives. we depend on proving conservative principles like ronald reagan did? or do we turn this over to a narcissist who only believes in himself? >> thank you, governor. >> senator santorum, do you think governor jindal is wrong for attacking the front-runner, donald trump? >> personal ait cans only help hillary clinton. there are plenty of policy differences between the candidates up here and the candidates later. he may have positions i disagree with, but people should be given the benefit of the doubt to be able to see through those things. i don't think it helps when republicans attack republicans personali personality.

the issue of immigration, there are huge differences in the field and i'll be talking about how we to control immigration and work after the american worker. the focus should be on how to win this election and improve the quality of life for american workers. we aren't doing that when we're out there picking at each other and calling names. the name we should call out is what are we going to do for average americans losing ground in america today -- >> thank you. governor jindal, do you want to respond? >> hillary clinton is running the weakest candidate, they had a socialist gaining on hillary clinton, folks, you can't make that up, a socialist is doing well in the democratic primary. the best way for us to give this election back would be to nominate a donald trump.

he' he'll implode in the general election but we have no idea. you can't attack him on policy. he doesn't care enough about policy. you can't say -- >> thank you, governor. >> he's not serious. >> senator santorum, we will get to those issues but a couple more on this general subject. senator graham, you called him a wrecking ball for your party. voters in south carolina in a recent poll prefer donald trump 30% to your 4%. how do you explain why your constituents would rather have donald trump as the republican nominee than you? >> all i can say if you look at polling in 2012 and 2008 at this level at this stage we would have president perry and president juliani. i want to convince you i'm best qualified to be commander in chief for the 1% doing the fighting for the rest of us and we'll have a serious discussion tonight. all of us will say we want to

destroy isil but here is what i'm going to tell you, what we're doing is not working and i have a plan to do it. if i'm president of the united states, we'll send more ground forces into iraq because we have to. president obama made a huge mistake believing too soon against sound military advice to every candidate tonight, are you willing to commit before the american people that you will destroy isil and you understand we need a ground force to do it? are you willing, jake? please ask everybody. will you go from 3500 to 10,000 american boots on the ground because if you don't, we're going to lose. are you willing to send american combat forces into syria as part of a regional army, because if you don't we'll never destroy isil and syria. if you're not ready to do those things, you're not ready to be commander in chief. >> thank you, senator gram. [ applause ] >> thank you, jake. governor, you signed the pledge

to support the nominee. have you released donald trump to be a free agent again? >> hugh not at all. donald trump l not be the republican nominee, period, flat out i guarantee you that. i will vote for the republican nominee -- >> you said on twitter you will not support donald trump if he's the nominee. >> he won't be the nominee, huwett. this is an important election with an enormous number of challenges facing the american people and the first four questions are about donald trump. >> would you really vote for hillary clinton over donald trump if he's the nominee? >> no, i will vote for the republican nominee but let me say this flat out, donald trump is unfit to be president of the united states or the republican party's nominee. look at what he did in atlantic city. he says he's going to make america great again. he invested four casinos in atlantic city and said essentially i'm going to make atlantic city great again. every one of those casinos went bankrupt, over 5,000 americans lost their job and you know

people who in this difficult economic time have lost their job and the pain that causes. he didn't lose anybody, 5,000 lost their jobs. he will do for america what he did for atlantic city and that is not someone we will nominate. >> thank you, governor. senator graham, one of the reasons why donald trump, ben carson and carly fiorina are doing well is because they are political outsiders, in fact, that's one of the things -- there are two things they have in common. they have never been elected to office before. and they are doing better than all of you in the polls. the four of you have a combined seven decades in elected office. senator graham in this election season, do republican voters see your service in government as a liability and not an asset? >> well, what i hope republican voters, libertarian, vegetarians, democrats, you name it will look for somebody to lead us in a new direction domestically but particularly on the foreign policy front. president obama is making a mess

of the world. what i'm trying to tell you here tonight that syria is hell on earth and it's not going to get fixed by insulting each other. i've been there 35 times to iraq and afghanistan. i'm ready to be commander in chief. i've been in the military 33 years. i am so ready to get on with winning a war that we can't afford to lose. i hope you believe that experience matters. it's an all voluntary force, folks. when you vote for commander in chief, they are stuck with your choice. we've had one navest being commander in chief. let's not replace one with another -- >> thank you, senator. >> if i thought i would win with more american ground forces i

would tell you -- >> thank you, senator. >> they are coming here. >> thank you, senator. let's turn to the top pick of immigration. for that i'll bring in dana barb. >> governor jindal has supported a pathway to citizen ship for undocumented immigrants once the border is secure. why do you disagree? >> just about everybody in this field supports some pathway to citizen ship. senator cruz, rubio, jeb bush, a lot of others, graham. all support amnesty at some point in time or another. this is really the interesting thing about this whole debate. this debate should not be about what we're going to do with someone here illegally. this debate should be about what every other debate on every other policy issue is in america. what's in the best interest of hard-working americans? what's in the best interest of our country?

we had a focus because the other side set up here is who we have to be concerned about. someone who is here illegally and their family and what will we do about them? a great leader will see that the objective of every law in america is to do what's in the best interest of america. what's in the best interest of america right now is this look at wages, look at employment among wage earners. 70 to 90% of people that have come in this country are wage earnings holding wages down, taking jobs away from america. >> your time is up. i want to get the governor to respond. >> i want to make clear everybody understands my position we need to secure the border period. we don't need a comprehensive plan or 1,000-page bill or amnesty. we need to get it done. as president i'll get it done in six months. it won't be perfect but we'll

get it done. i'm not for amnesty. we need to secure the border. right now we got a weak one, right now, the left, hilary didn't like this, immigration without assimilation is invasion. they need to come here, learn english, roll up their sleeve s and get to work. >> senator santorum, do you buy that -- >> because you don't call it amnesty, what everybody in this field is for is allowing people who are in this country illegally, people that broke the law to come into this country and came illegally and over stayed to stay in america. again, we have 35 million people, we have the highest percentage of immigrants in this country as far as numbers ever as far as percentage, the highest in 105 years. wages are flat lined. the reason that you're seeing the angst and anger out there and the reason this issue has taken off is because workers in america know that their wages

are undermined. if you look from the year 2000 to 2014, 5.7 net new jobs created. what percentage are jobs held by people not born here? all of them. the fact is american workers -- >> senator, your time is up. >> that's why they are upset. >> you really need to clarify your position because you say you're not for amnesty but have before for a path of citizenship. >> that's not right. i said secure the border, when that's done we will deal with the folks compassion netly, if you want to say rubio or jeb are for, that's right. i've never been for amnesty, will never be for amnesty and secure the border. not enough to defend sanctuary cities and jail those mayors and councilmen as accessories for the crimes committed by people that shouldn't be here in the first place. >> thank you, governor.

>> dana, i want to change the subject. we're staying on immigration. glove new york city pataki, they are debating the policy of granting u.s. citizen ship to every baby born in this country even if born to undocumented immigrants. senator graham wants to end it, governor pataki, you support keeping it. >> it's a small part of an important issue. let me comment on what my colleagues said. we have to secure the border. people have to come to america legally. that has to be step one. step two is we have to stop releasing criminals into the communities. if you are charged with a crime as an illegal alien, you should be in jail or deported, not released as the obama administration has done. of course, we should out law sanctuary cities and hold them responsible, but we can't ignore 11 million people here. what are we going to do? we're not going to send them back despite somebody saying

we're going to drag kids off of classrooms and send them back, but we have to send a message we're a nation that depends on the rule of law, and when your first act so to break the law, there has to be a consequence. i would require those who want to have legal status, not citizen ship come forward acre knowledge they broke the law and do what we do when we want to sanction someone -- >> thank you. >> -- that is community service 200 hours work income a hospital or school. >> what i asked about is birthright citizen ship and why you think -- >> i don't think we should tell that child born in america we'll send them back. the way to avoid that is have an intelligent immigration policy where we know who is coming

here, why, so we don't have this flood of people coming here for the wrong reasons. >> senator graham, most countries in the world do not have birthright citizen ship. >> probably for a good reason. >> why do you think governor pataki is wrong. >> let's talk about immigration. number one, i like rick. i don't remember the santorum plan when i was in the senate. the peanut gallery on this is interesting. i have been trying to solve this problem for a decade. there are no democrats here tonight. if you're here, raise your hand. welcome, thank you for coming. bottom line, i'm trying to fix the problem. we're not going to deport 11 million people here illegally but we'll start with felons and off they go. to the rest, you can stay but you got to learn our language. i don't speak it well but look how far i've come. speaking english is a good thing. you have to pay taxes, a fine, you have to get back to the

line, secure the border, they will keep coming. if you don't control who has the job, it will never end. we have two borders, one with canada and one with mexico. i've never met an illegal canadian. this is an economic problem. amnesty is doing nothing. to birthright citizenship, when we clean up this miss, i'm willing to look at the following. there are people buying tourists visas that go to resorts with maternity words for the purpose of having a child here in america. rich asians -- >> thank you, senator. >> that is bastardizing citizen ship. >> i just want to -- we'll come back to you -- >> he mentioned my name and i didn't have a plan. >> all right. >> i did have a plan back in 2006 i had a comprehensive border security bill that did in fact put the resources to build the fencing and deploy the troops and the technology necessary -- >> what did you do with the 11 million? >> as you know, lindsey, 40 to 60% of the 11 million are here on visa over stays. we know exactly who they are. we should know where they are but we have a government that

doesn't tell them to return home. you can solve half of the problem with the 11 million -- >> what about the other half? >> that's half your problem. >> how many democrats support your plan? how many democrats did you have on your bill? >> i don't know how many democrats -- >> i can tell you, none. >> the point is that i had a bill. >> that went nowhere. >> you're right, lindsey, it went nowhere because we had a president for more comprehensive -- >> george w. bush. >> that's right. >> who won with hispanics. >> you know what we need to do, lindsey? we need to win, we need to win fighting for americans. we need to win fighting -- >> hispanics are americans -- >> the people that hurt the most by illegal immigration are hispanics. >> in my world hispanics are americans. >> the folks who are hurt the worst are recent immigrants by illegal immigrants coming to the country last year alone 700,000

illegal immigrants came into this country. who do you think are most impact ed? those who came and played by the rules and went to work and finding themselves out of work because someone is willing to come in and work for less. >> i have a different take where the country is going on this issue. number one, in 1950 there were 16 workers for every retiree. how many today? there is three. in 20 years there is going to be two and you'll have 80 baby boomers wanting a social security check. we'll need more legal immigration. let's make it logical and pick people from all over the world on our terms, not just from mexico. let's have a system because we have a declining work force. trump thurman had four kids after he was 67. you need a new legal immigration system.

>> thank you, senator. [ applause ] >> governor pataki, final word here. >> i have seven kids and done my part. >> governor pataki. >> we have to deal with the people here illegally. we can't ignore or send them back. my policy would work to make them part of an e economy that will grow and help america. >> i want to turn to another pressing immigration issue. over the next year, at least 10,000 syrian refugees will be allowed to enter the united states. governor jindal you said it's ridiculous for america to let more refugees in from syria and expressed concerns about security. senator graham says the united states has a moral obligation to the syrian refugees. governor jindal, does the united states have any obligation to them? >> jake, america is the the most compassion et country in the

world. we do more for folks around the world. one, let us draw a direct line between this crisis and this president's failed foreign policy. he drew a red line in syria and did not enforce it and now millions of refugees potentially, hundreds of thousands going into europe. the answer is not to put a band aid on this and allow more to come into america. we have a vetting process, normal refugee process. allowing more into the country doesn't solve the problem. the way to solve the problem is to be clear to our friends and allies that we'll replace assad and our friends don't trust us. enemies don't fear and respect us. i want to go back on

immigration. let me be very clear. immigration, we need to insist on immigration, my parents came here legally 45 years ago and followed the rule of law. they knew english and adopted the values. they did not come here to be hyphenated americans. we insist that on -- >> senator graham, your response with syrian refugees? >> how does president obama sleep at night? look what you let happen on your watch. your commanders said don't withdrawal from iraq. three years ago your entire national senator mccain and i begged you to do a no fly zone while it would matter but you said no. i'm not blaming bobby, i'm not blaming rick, i'm not blaming anybody, i'm blaming barack obama for this mess. >> thank you, senator. [ applause ]

>> i want to turn now -- >> and i want to fix it. >> we're going to keep talking about the situation in the middle east. let me bring in my colleague dana bash again. >> thank you. senator graham you mentioned you're calling for an additional 20,000 u.s. ground forces to fight isis in iraq and syria and you have said again this evening that anyone not willing to do that should not become -- be commander in chief. >> right. >> for iraq and syria, are you saying everybody to your right is not fit for the oval office? >> if they don't understand that barack obama's policies are not working that we're not going to destroy isil and iraq and syria from the air, they are not ready. what have i learned in 35 trips? i learned what works and what doesn't. we were in a good stop in iraq, president bush made mistakes but adjusted. to those who fought in iraq, you did your job and barack obama

wasted it all. now we're in a spot where if we don't destroy isil soon, they are coming here. there are 3500 american boots on the ground. you would never know it hearing your president but we need about 10,000 to turn the tide of battle in iraq and there is nobody left, dana, to train inside of syria. we spent $50 million training 54 people and they are down to four or five. they have been slaughtered so we need a region army, the turks, the jordans, the saudis, egyptians, get their armies up together and 90% of it will be them. they will pay for this war because we paid for the last two but 10% at least will have to be us and we're going in on the ground and we're going to pull it up by the roots and kill every bastard we find because if we don't, they are coming here. >> you're raising your hand. you're committing to this number of troops in iraq and on the ground in syria. >> i proposed 10,000 troops, i did so six or seven months ago we needed to deploy and do what lindsey said. >> he said 20,000. >> i said 10,000 and if more is necessary, look, the answer is this, once isis establishes a califit, the game change. you have an ya of control you have to take ground from that because if you don't, then in the islamic world, it's seen as legitimate. if they have territory integrity, they have legit, so we must take their ground. >> thank you, senator. governor jindal? >> absolutely.

we need to do whatever is necessary to hunt down and kill the radical islamic terrorists but the president helped contribute. he went to the pentagon the same week they announced they would cut back the number of troops in the army to say we won't win through guns, a change of hearts and minds. this will be a generational conflict, that is non-sense. they are burning, crucifying people alive. we need to hunt them and have a president willing -- >> thank you, governor. >> does that include american ground forces in syria as part of a regional army

in. a 14-year-old muslim high school student in texas was arrested on monday for bringing a homemade clock to schools after mistaken for a fake bomb. police released the young man after they determined it was, in fact, a clock. today, president obama invited that student to the white house. governor jindal, throughout your campaign you've spoken many times about muslim extremists in this country. how would you, as president, strike a balance between vigilance and discrimination? >> well, jake, look, i think the american people -- we don't discriminate anybody based on the color of skin or creed.

i think the way you strike that balance, you say to muslim leaders, they have two responsibilities. it's not enough to denounce violence. they have to denounce by name. and say these are not martyrs. they are going straight to hell. they are not going to enjoy their afterlife. secondly, they have to have the same expressed freedoms that they want for themselves and everybody else. the president says ft. hood was an issue of workplace violence. we are at war with radical islam. our president loves to apologize for america, he goes to national prayer breakfast and criticizes christians. the way you strike the balance, you say to muslim leaders, denounce these fools, radical terrorists by names and say they are not martyrs. >> i'm afraid you didn't answer the question. how do you strike the balance between vigilance and discrimination? do you ever see the discrimination part of it? >> i don't think a 14-year-old

should ever get arrested for bringing a clock to school. i'm glad that police are careful. i'm glad they are worried about security and safety issues. look, in america we don't tolerate them. the biggest discrimination is going on against christian business owners and individuals who believe in traditional forms of marriage. they are throwing this woman in jail in kentucky. let's talk about that. let's talk about the christian florist, the caterer, the musician, who said don't discriminate against us, don't shut down our businesses and fine us thousands of dollars for believing marriage is between a man and a woman. >> we'll get to that later in the debate. senator graham? >> kim davis, i'm not worried about her attacking me. i am worried about radical islamic terrorists planning another 9/11. we're at war, folks. i want to have a legal system that understands the difference between finding a war and

fighting a crime and here's the reality. young men from the mid-east are different than kim davis. we've got to understand that. >> thank you, senator. >> islamic websites need to be monitored. >> if i can comment on this. yes, kim davis is different from islamists radicalists from the mid-east. on the other hand, we have run rule in america, an elected official can't say i'm not going to follow that law if it conflicts with my beliefs. i think she should have been fired and if she worked for me, i would have fired her. we have to uphold the rule of law. jake, imagine one minute that was a muslim who said i don't believe in gay marriage and refuse to perform that wedding. we wouldn't have had that outrage. there's a place where religion supercedes the rule of law. it's called iran. it shouldn't be the united states. >> we'll get to that subject in the next block. we're going to take a very quick break. when we come back, both jeb bush and donald trump agree on one thing when it comes to taxes.

we'll see if any of the candidates on stage agree as well. that's next. stay with us. [ applause ] just might be the one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world. we just need to make sure she has what she needs. welcome to windows 10. the future starts now for all of us.

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welcome back to the cnn republican debate at the beautiful reagan library in simi valley valley, california. before we took the break, you were all chomping at the bit at kim davis, governor pataki said he would have fired kim davis, the kentucky clerk jailed for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses. senator santorum, do you agree with george pataki. >> a young woman was challenged about her fact and refused to deny god. we saw her as a hero. today, someone who refuses to defy a judge's unconstitutional verdict is ridiculed and criticized, chastised because she is standing up and not denying her god and her faith.

that is a huge difference in 16 years. people have a fundamental right in the first amendment. there's no more important right. it is the right that is the trunk that all other rights come from and that's the freedom of conscience. when we say in america that we have no room, how many bakers, how many florists, pastors, how many clerks are we going to thrd up and say, i cannot violate what my faith says is against its teachings. is there not room in america? i believe therhas toe room. first, i believe we have to pass the first amendment defense act which provides that room for government officials and others who do not want to be complicit in what they believe is against their faith. second, we need, as a president, who is going to fight a court that is abusive, that has superceded their authority, judicial supremacy is not in the constitution and we need a president and congress to stand up to a court when it exceeds

its constitutional authority. >> thank you, senator. [ applause ] >> governor pataki, your response? >> my response is kind of, wow, we're going to have a president who defies the supreme court. >> i hope so. if they are wrong. >> then you don't have the rule of law. >> i have judicial supremacy. you don't have the rule of law when the court has the final say on everything. >> the elected representatives of the people always have the opportunity to change that law. the supreme court makes a determination but it's ultimately the elected officials who decide whether or not that would be accepted. by the way, if i had a chance to lead this country, i will appoint judges who understand that role. they are not going to be making law but interpreting the law that is passed. there's a huge difference between an individual standing

up and saying i am going to stand for my religious rights. i applaud that. you should be able to engage in religious beliefs the way you see fit but when you take an oath of office to uphold the law, all of the laws, you cannot pick and choose. >> martin luther king wrote a letter from the birmingham jail and said in that letter that there are just laws and unjust laws. and we have no obligation to condone and accept unjust laws. and then he followed that up and said what's an unjust law. an unjust law is a law that goes against the moral code or god's law or the natural law. i would argue that what the supreme court did is against the

natural law, god's law and we have every obligation to stand in opposition to it. >> jake, i didn't agree with the supreme court's decision but it is the law of this land and i'm a great admirer of martin luther king and he was prepared to break the law but it wasn't in an office of political power. it was civil disobedience where what he was willing to do is voluntarily go to jail with his followers to send a message to the elected representatives that these laws were wrong and had to be changed. and because of his courage, we didn't ignore the courts. we changed the laws that made america a better place. that's the way to do it. >> thank you, governor. >> jake, i've got a practical question. i'd like the left to give us a list of jobs that christians aren't allowed to have. if we aren't allowed to be

clerks, bakers, musicians, caterers? are we not allowed to be elected officials, i want to make this important point, the first amendment rights, the right to religious freedom isn't breaking the law to exercise our constitutional rights. america did not create religious liberty. religious liberty created the united states of america. it's the reason we're here today. >> senator graham, do you want to weigh in? >> i wasn't the best law student. by the end of this debate it's the most time that i've spent in any library. but on the first day in law school, it's a group in our constitutional democracy that interprets the constitution as to what it means is the supreme court. and in a 5-4 decision by the supreme court, they have ruled that same-sex marriage bans at the state level violate the 14th amendment to the united states constitution, equal protection

clause. i don't agree with it but that is the law of the land. but as president, what i want to make sure of is that everybody in this room, christian, jewish, muslim, whatever religion that you can practice your faith without government interference, you can marry people consistent with the tenants of your faith. that's the number one obligation of my presidency, is to protect religious people when they exercise their religious rights. but this decision is the law as it is of right now. and here's the one thing i want to tell you. >> thank you, senator. >> wait a minute. for the wedding cake baker, or the gay couple or the baptist preacher radical islam would kill you all if they could. let's not lose sight of the big picture. >> thank you. i want to stick with the supreme court justices. governor jindal, both senators graham and santorum voted to confirm chief justice of the united states john roberts who has led with the majority twice

to uphold obamacare. do you think that graham's and santorum's votes to confirm john roberts were a mistake? >> i think putting roberts -- i think putting kennedy, i think putting before them, was a mistake but, look, the first responsibility starts in the white house. the reality is, conservatives have not been willing to stand up for our beliefs. you'd never worry where the democratic judge would vote. you never had a democratic judge say, surprise, i've woke up and i'm a conservative. we have presidents trying to find judges with no rulings or records. i'm going to have a litmus test. for judges, i'm going to find judges that are conservative, judges that are going to be pro-life and follow the constitution. judges, by the way, that are going to follow the american law, not international law. they are not there to appoint international law. judges understand their job is not to write law. it's time for a republican president as a commander in

chief i will appoint bold judges that will be conservatives and enforce -- >> thank you, governor. senator, want to give you an opportunity to respond senator graham, do you stand by your vote for john roberts? >> he's one of the most qualified man to ever come before the united states senate and i don't agree with his decision but 99 times out of 100 i will. to the republicans, the biggest prize on the table in 2017 is the presidency. if it is hillary clinton, joe biden or bernie sanders, they are going to pick people that we will disagree with all the time. please understand, we have to win this election. the court's at stake. it's the most important reason for us to turn out, to make sure we don't lose the judiciary for decades to come. >> senator santorum, do you

stand by your vote for john roberts? >> contrary to what governor jindal said, justice roberts had a long record and it was a long, good record and so he made a bad decision on a couple of bad decisions on obamacare but he's made a lot of great decisions, too. and so i don't -- i don't regret at all standing up for john roberts but, you know, it's easy to sit out in louisiana and talk about how i'd be tougher. i thought when i was in the united states -- we fought for the first time to defeat justices and judges that bill clinton nominated and i fought with president bush to defend his nominees, to push even a filibuster, breaking the filibuster. i led that fight against someone who didn't want to end the filibuster in order for us to get good, conservative justices. so i have been there on the front line fighting for judges and conservative justices and i will do so as president like none other. >> governor jindal, i'll give you 30 seconds to respond. >> it's not a minor ruling.

justice roberts twice rewrote the law to save obamacare, creating new entitlement when we can't afford the government we've got today, an expansion of socialism in our country. it's not that he got a minor ruling wrong. this is twice he rewrote the law. they give great speeches in the senate. i've signed the executive order and signed the law protecting religious liberty in the state of louisiana. the one he got wrong was a big one. twice he bent over backwards to save obamacare. in republicans voted the way we should have, we would still have our tenth amendment rights and obamacare would not be the law of the land. >> hugh hewitt? >> governor jindal just said it's all about winning and if former secretary of state is the successor, none of this matters. in the elite they have a nice way of saying things about them and saying a national treasure,

can anyone inside of washington win this election cycle having praised secretary of state clinton that way? >> no. and it's not only whether they can. they shouldn't win this election cycle. one of the things i do agree and i want to thank donald trump after i criticized him for everything from being narcissist to an egomaniac, it's time to fire all of them. i've got a choice between honest socialists on the left, like bernie sanders, and conservatives on the right. they said they were going to stop amnesty and repeal obamacare. they didn't do either. mcconnell has waved the white flag of defeat. they are not willing to stand up for the issues that count. i think it's time to have term limits. i think it's time to have them being six-figure lobbyists and let's keep them out of d.c.

let's make them live under the statement rules and laws that they apply to the rest of us. they can't be elected. let's fire all of them from their current positions. >> senator graham, you're having a good debate but there is this problem of washington elites and saying wonderful things about each other. >> i've been called a lot of things but never an elite before. my dad owned a liquor store and a poolroom. >> is that responsive to calling hillary clinton a national treasure, senator graham? >> i introduced her at a conference about africa. i thought secretary clinton did a good job when it came to dealing with our jobs in africa, particularly among women. george w. bush set $40 billion aside and rick santorum helped

him and president bush wiped out an entire -- wiped out aids and malaria for young african children. secretary clinton did a good -- here's my problem with secretary clinton. where the hell were you on the night of the benghazi attack? how did you let it become a death threat to begin with and why did you lie about what happened to these people? if you want a new change in terms of foreign policy, don't pick her because she's his secretary of state. i've got a real good chance of beating her because i don't say things bad about her all the time just when she deserve it is and her definition of flat broke and mine are different. >> senator, can you go back and forth that way and expect to have an argument with the american people to persuade them about that. >> ronald reagan did a couple of really big things we should all remember. he sat down with tip o'neil, the most liberal guy in the entire house. they started drinking together. that's the first thing i'm going to do as president. we're going to drink more. [ applause ]

and two great irishmen, they found a way to save social security from bankruptcy by adjusting the age of retirement from 65 to 67. so, yes, i will say nice things at times about democrats. yes, i will work with them. i will put the country at a party. absolutely i want to work with them. at the end of the day, hugh, i'm lucky to be standing here. i'm the first in my family to ever go to college. neither one of my parents finished high school. darlene's here with me tonight. we owned a restaurant -- >> thank you, senator. >> wait a minute. >> thank you, senator. >> you asked me a question. this is important. republicans need to tell the american people we get it as to who you are. when my mom died, i was 21. when my dad died, i was 22. we were wiped out financially. if it weren't for social security survivor benefit check, we wouldn't have made it. i don't need a lecture from democrats about social secure. >> thank you, senator. >> i want to save it, just like ronald reagan did. >> let's talk about the economy, if he could. governor pataki, jeb bush and donald trump are both proposing

raising taxes on hedge fund managers who pay at a lower rate. you were the governor of new york, home of wall street. do you agree that hedge fund managers need to be paying a higher rate? >> i would throw out the entire corrupt tax code. it's a symbol of the corruption and power that the special interests and lobbyists in washington. it's 74,000 pages of incomprehensible gobblygook. i'd get rid of the 1.4 million every year in exemptions and loopholes and lower the rates. the average american person is paying higher taxes than they should because of loopholes and one of them is that carried interest loophole. i would tax that income the same as ordinary income. i'd lower the rate to 24% for all americans but i would not give a special break to the wall street fat cats. >> so you are with jeb bush and donald trump?

>> it's hard for me to say i'm with donald trump on anything but on this issue i agree with him. but let me just make one other point. it's not just throwing out the tax code to break the back of the special interests that control washington. it's other reforms. i would propose a law right now there are over 400 former members of the house and senate who are registered lobbyists in washington. i would propose a law on day one, there's a lifetime ban on you ever being a lobbyist in washington, d.c., you get elected, you go back home. you don't stay and support the special interests. >> governor jindal -- governor jindal, that's three republicans running for president who support hedge fund managers paying a higher rate. are you the fourth? >> two things. jake, i'm absolutely for all of these carve-outs and special

interests and loopholes for lobbyists. so as part of an overall comprehensive tax reform that has a lower tax code, sure. as a single, i want to raise taxes, no. the government has grown over this government where it's going to overwhelm the american economy. nobody else running for president has done that. i'm the only candidate. i've cut my state budget 26%. everybody else talks about it. we have done it. there's a part of overall tax reform that cuts rates, lowers the tax code, sure. i'm not for raising taxes on anybody. we already have too much money going to d.c. >> i want to bring in my colleague dana bash. >> senator santorum, you just heard governor jindal and governor pataki talk about tax reform. jeb bush has proposed a tax reform plan and in it he limits deductions, including the popular home mortgage deduction.

would you do the same as president? >> actually, i'm going to be proposing a plan, i call it the 20/20, a 20% flat tax on income, 20% flat tax on capital gains and on corporations. we eliminate all the deductions, special interest provisions and corporations. we deal with the carried interest issue because everybody pays the same 20%. there's no advantage as to how you take your income. that will create growth. we're going to allow expensing for corporations. for manufacturing, again, i pledge when i announced that i was going to run for president on a factory floor that i would make america the number one manufacturer in the world. why? because we need to put americans back to work. hardworking americans are not doing well in this economy. people from all skill levels are going to be able to work. we put a 20% rate on corporations. we're competitive with every country in the world. we allow for expensing, a

three-year phase-in and start at 0 for manufacturing and get it up to 20. you're going to see an enormous investment of capital and equipment and you're going to have problems finding folks to be able to work in manufacturing, that's how many jobs we're going to create. the answer is, we're going to lower and flatten taxes, put government on a budget, a 10% across the board -- >> time is up, senator. >> we've got a lot of plans. >> governor, just to bring you back into this, you said that you would be okay with what is effectively raising taxes on a hedge fund manager as part of a tax reform plan. would you also be for doing away with people's deductions for their mortgage interest? >> no, i would not. i would keep that deduction. i would lower the rates dramatically. yes, that route would pay more but everybody else is going to pay less. i would keep the home mortgage deduction, the charitable deduction and others. by the way, i agree with rick on manufacturing but my approach is different. i would pass a rate on manufacturing of 12%, the lowest in the developed world so we can make things in america again. i know how important those jobs are. when i went through college,

christmas and summer vacations, i worked in a factory. my grandparents worked in a factory. we have the opportunity now with lower energy costs, with the world labor costs getting higher to make things in america so we don't have to worry about china. lower the tax burden on manufacturing and improve the work skills of americans. get rid of job-killing regulations. >> thank you. >> we're going to change america. >> you're going to be involved in the next question. senator graham -- >> he talked about that he would be better in manufacturing. the fact is, we have a zero percent rate that phases to 20. we have a 7% invested in plant equipment here and create more jobs. >> thank you, sir. senator graham, i want to turn to the -- >> if you want to see manufacturing, come to south carolina. >> let's talk about south carolina, sir. let's turn to minimum wage. senator santorum is the only person on this stage that has proposed increasing the federal minimum wage. do you agree with senator santorum that the minimum wage should be increased? >> when my mom and dad owned the restaurant, the bar, the poolroom, if you had increased minimum wage, it would have been hard to hire more people. hillary clinton has a list a

mile long to help the middle class. we're talking all around this. the middle class for the last 6 1/2 years has been squeezed and squeezed hard. to the middle class, i understand who you are. you are one broken down car from not going on vacation. you're from one sick child away from having to change your whole budget. here's what i want to do as your president. i want to grow this economy. when boeing came to south carolina to build a 787, everybody paid more, they would have lost their employees to boeing. if you're a waitress out there wanting more money, i'm not going to increase the minimum wage, i'm going to try to create an environment to hire you at a higher rate or they'll have to pay more to keep you. you have to create jobs in this country. banking is locked down because of dodd/frank and nobody has talked about the elephant in the room which is debt.

we need to come up with a plan to get out of debt. >> senator graham, thank you so much. senator santorum, senator graham is suggesting that your proposal would not allow south carolina to hire more workers. >> what you're basically saying, whatever republicans are up here saying is we are against the minimum wage. if you're not for increasing it, the answer is the republicans don't believe in a floor wage in america. fine. you go ahead and make that case to the american public. i'm not going to. not from a party that supported bailouts. i didn't but this party did. not from a party that supports special interest tax provisions for a whole bunch of other businesses. and when it comes to hardworking americans at the bottom of the income scale we can't provide some level of income support.

what i proposed is not anything that the president has proposed. i believe that would be harmful to the american public. but a 50 cent increase over three years, we would have a minimum wage roughly in the area of what it's been historically, 5% of wages. to me, if you're going to talk to 90% of american workers, by the way, 90% of the american workers don't own a bar. they don't own a business. they work for a living. most of them are wage earners. and republicans are losing elections because we're not talking about them. all we want to talk about is what happened to our business. there are people who work in that business. i was at the convention four years ago and on the signs of all of the seats the night i spoke was a sign that said, we built that because barack obama had talked about how businesses didn't build their own businesses. then we trotted out one small business person after another for almost an hour that night talking about how they built

their businesses and that's wonderful. but you know what we didn't do? we didn't bring one worker on that stage. how are you going to win, ladies and gentlemen? how are we going to win if 90% of americans don't think we care at all about them and their chance to -- >> thank you, senator. we have to take a quick break. when we come back, confrontation or negotiation, how will these candidates attempt to handle russian president vladimir putin? that's next. [ applause ] we value sticking with things. when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them. humana medicare advantage. the plan people stick with.

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