that's it for us, see you at 10:00. might this time be different? >> i'm michael smerconish. welcome to the program. another sad chapter in the national ep deidemic of shootin sprees. nine shot dead and everybody's reaction was here we go again. president obama got angry about how this is much too routine. jeb bush is under fire for saying stuff happens. i'll talk to senator richard blumenthal introducing a gun control bill this tuesday.

and pratt who says guns-free zones are problem. first, the latest news, trying to combat years of inaction, connecticut senators richard blumenthal and chris murphy kepting the state where the sandy hook elementary school shooting took place introducing new legislation on tuesday that will bar gun sales until background checks are complete. richard blumenthal joins me now. senator, if we couldn't get something like this post-sandy hook with 20 young americans slain in a school setting, why might this time be different? >> this time should be different. history shows that time is necessary to accomplish effective measures to prevent gun violence. the president of the united states, ronsd reagan was almost assassinated. and jim brady paralyzed. it still took 12 years to accomplish the brady bill. in stockton, california, more

than 30 people were mowed down by an assault weapon. in fact, an automatic machine gun. and the ban took five years to establish. so every reform has a tipping point. this horrific, unspeakable tragedy, must like sandy hook could be the tipping point. and that's why we're introducing a very common sense, sensible measure to close the loophole in the existing law. so that no gun will be sold without a background check. >> what say default sale? explain, i think people probably don't understand that this even exists. >> absolutely right. the default sale, in essence occurs when 72 hours have passed. and the background check is incomplete. at that point, the gun dealer, a licensed gun dealer is permitted, not required, but allowed, to make a sale. in other words, if there's no

completed background check, the sale can go forward. now walmart voluntarily has said it's not selling guns to anyone without a background check. we've asked bass pro, easy pond, to do the same collaboratively, but they've failed to respond. we're going to close the loophole. more broadly, michael, the background check has to be extended to all dealers. universal. there needs to be more marns me as well. >> senator, would have of the sales been advocated with what you're advocating into law? >> that shooter in charleston, south carolina would never have accessed that weapon if he had be required to get a background

check. he got a gun because the background check was incomplete. and the point is not only that specific instances would have been prevented but simply, that america can be made safer by keeping this wash of weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. right now, it's a convicted felon can't have a weapon. 1529 people deemed ineligible bought guns, 15,729 people who were effect ineligible to buy a weapon and you existing law. >> yesterday, ohio governor john kasich running for the presidency on the republican side of the aisle said this. you can strip away were all the guns but the people who are going to commit crimes or have problems are always going to have a gun. doesn't he make a valid point? to guns right now is much too s-

easy. by various means. and in a sense, the weakest link in the system, among the state, can populate the rest of the country with guns. because our boundaries and borders are so porous, that illegal trafficking means that guns can spread across the country. come to new york or connecticut with tough gun laws, through the means of transport from the southern states where there are relatively weak laws. so, he's right that right now, we have a lot of guns reaching a lot of people who shouldn't have them. that's why i comprehensive approach is necessary. it's not just one law. it's ban on illegal trafficking. >> this is your starting point, is what you're saying? >> and the starting point really has to be politicizing in a good way this issue. so, elected officials can be held accountable. because we face a public health emergency. >> senator richard blumenthal,

thank you for being here. >> thank you. let's now get the other side, joining me from our d.c. bureau is larry pratt, he's the executive director of gun owners of america. mr. pratt, doesn't he make a valid point, the senator, in saying that you shouldn't get a gun purchased by default. you ought to at least undergo that background check? >> if you look at the recent mass murders, in fact, for quite some time, they get their guns legally. they don't have a previous record that's going to trigger anything. so we're dealing with the fact that there are evil people who are going to do terrible things as this dirt bag did in oregon. and what we need to change, and what i hope the senator, one of these days will take a look at, since he wants to look at things in a comprehensive fashion as he said, look at the laws that are denying people the ability to defend themselves. that was a gun-free zone in

oregon as so many -- of all of two of our country's mass murders since 1950 have occurred in gun-free zones. i think that's a clue that we ought to be changing it and the senator doesn't get that memo. >> are you opposing that mole are which says if the background isn't done by default, the person ought to be able to get the weapon? >> sure -- >> i just want to know are you going to oppose that measure? >> sure, we're going to oppose it, absolutely. >> but why, why should someone, just because of bureaucratic ineptitude, hasn't completed a background check, why by default should they get the weapon? >> that way, we're going to feel better that everything is okay if the background check is

accomplished? >> i'm going to tell you something, as a firearm owner. i have multiple firearms under lock and key at home. i don't want you to think this is a left wing hit job. i'm going to sleep better as an american knowing whomever is purchasing a weapon at least has been investigated if the 72 hour isn't enough time that it should be extend brd they get the gun? >> even though it's been shown it hasn't been addressing the problem. the problem is we're disarming the good guys. making them sit there and wait for a bullet. which is what happens with a mass murder in a gun-free zone. and signing that is outrageous that we're not talking about the senator's love for gun-free zones. >> so your answer, and i don't want to be too simplistic, more americans should be armed? what you're saying, take away those gun-free zones and allow people to carry everywhere? >> would it have happened if some of the victims were armed

in that english classroom? >> i don't know, frankly there's no requirement that a person has to be trained in that circumstance. i say to myself if one of my four kids were in that classroom and someone would have pulled out a weapon by the best of intentions maybe they would shoot my kid by error? >> you know, if that's going through your mind, maybe you ought not go to class. you're trying to argue against my position with a what if, could if sort of thing. it just doesn't happen. the guy at the scene of the crime knows who the attacker is. >> you raised the what if scenario, saying what if someone had a gun in this school and could have taken this gun out. i want to show you two slides. you can react. slide number one, shows that the u.s. has 29.7 homicides per firearm per one million people.

second slide, 42% of the civilian owned guns are here in the united states. doesn't that mean we have more homicides, because our firearms are more plentifuplentiful? >> actually, when you look at the time frames, it's obvious you cut out two world wars and concentration camps and other means of mass murder that were perpetrated against disarmed populations in europe. so, no, it's much more lethal to live under a gun control regime than it is in the united states where you can protect yourself. >> mr. pratt, thank you for being here. now, many are saying that the fault isn't with guns but with mental illness but is that actually the direct diagnosis? joining me now, psychiatrist gail saltz. thank you for being on the program. >> thank you. >> i read something from the

"times," with the online work. i want to put this on the screen, i have noticed, he's now talking about the roanoke shooter, i've noticed that people like him are all alone and unknown yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the lime light. does that sound like a guy who wanted his moment in the sun, even though he's not here, quote, here to enjoy it? >> well, he's right that we and the media do propagate and give fame, even if it's infamy to people who do this. even if you're an angry, disenfranchised young man, that you want to say that mental illness is the issue -- no, that is not schizophrenia, that's not

bipolar, that is not the severe mental ill answer that would be flagged and prevent you from buying a gun. that is not the person that would come into the system. they will not be hospitalized. they will not see a therapist. they do have things in common that make it more likely to participate in something like that. data shows that is the past history of violence. of any sort, of any action with the law, of any arrest, a past history or current abuse of substance abuse. a past history of early trauma. there are certain things, and of course, access to guns, those things correlate with mass shootings and they correlate with any kind of gun violence. >> i don't have your expertise, obviously, i read about this incident and look at the background, to me, there's similarities to the guy at sandy hook. meaning they were estranged from their fathers. live with their mothers.

loners. i know there are people watching, gosh, i know somebody like that living in my social circle. how do they had know if they have that extra characteristic of actually being violent? >> the reality is, we can't know, we as health professionals can't know -- i'm unhappy that president obama mentioned mental illness in his talk yesterday because it gave people the flag that you do know. what should one do? well if you want to supply the mental health system with methods of helping these kinds of people, there could be crisis centers. more crisis centers for people who feel angry or disenfranchised or the mother of the son who is not functioning and who is angry and disenfranchised and buying guns to bring them in and report them. we as physicians should be able

to report, and we're not asked if someone has a gun. >> you heard senator blumenthal say on tuesday, he'll be introducing legislation if 72 hours passes and a background check is still not concluded by default, an individual shouldn't get a weapon. >> right. >> and mr. from the from the pro-gun lobby says we're going to oppose even that? >> that makes it seem like a political issue. i would add to background checks. >> how? >> that we should be screening for people who have any history of arrest. of any violence. substance abuse, because those are the things that from the mental health perspective correlate -- >> libertarians will go crazy with that. >> i know they will but if they're going to look at the data, that's the way to dot screening. if they're going to ignore the data, that trumps any rights to correlate, we're not going to look at the science and gun violence. >> i think i know how the president feels.

as much as i enjoy your company and respect your opinion, i'm tired of having this conversation with you. >> and i'm tired of having this conversation as well. we keep spinning a circle because one side tries to say it's mental illness, which it's not, and the other side tries to say something else. we need to look at what is the data? we need to use the data that is available. and those should be the screenings, if we want to supply mental health, i'm all for that. >> gail saltz. i want to know what you think. tweet me. i'll read them later in the program. coming up, donald trump finds religion. check this out. anybody buying that image? and jeb bush's response to the shooting is stuff happens did he have a legitimate point? also kevin mccarthy brags about derailing hillary clinton may cost him the speakership of the house. who could take his place. to weigh in on all of that and more i've got tv's legendary

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the impulse it to do something. and it's not necessarily the right thing to do. >> from the mclaughlin group. fred barnes is co-founder and editor of the weekly standard, morton kondracke, "newsweek" and the new republic. morton, i've been waiting all my life to say that to you on tv. >> that will be on my headstone. >> hopefully, a hundred years from now. together, you have authored an overdue book. i'm glad somebody wrote it. jack kemp, the bleeding heart conservative who changed america." we'll get to that. may i put up on the screen what jeb bush said in response to this shooting incident. in response to whether more prayer is helpful. he said, we're in a difficult time in our country and i don't think more government is necessarily the answer to this. i think we need to reconnect

ourselves with everybody else. it's very sad to see. but i resist -- i had this challenge as governor. look, stuff happens. >> fred barnes, was he making a point with the tendency of overreaction on the part of lawmakers? >> no, i think he made a good point. there is overreaction, the media has a lot to do with that, of course, what happened in oregon was horrendous is there a role here for the federal government? at least senator blumenthal thinks that. i'm not so sure. >> morton, what's your point on this? >> when he said the other day, about the free stuff. he was not obviously talking, saying that african-americans

are intentionally gedependant a waiting for for free stuff. he said waiting for to buy the votes of minority groups. this is perfectly legitimate. but everything you can say that can be interpreted as a mistake is being used against you. and you've got to just got to be very careful. and the way to do that for him is to be positive and have solutions to stuff. instead of being as passive as he is often. >> fred, why is he stuck? there's a brand-new pew research survey. i'll put it up on the screen. it shows jeb bush he may have $100 million in his account for his pac. but he's at 4% in the poll, why can't he get, as his father would say, the big mo on his side? >> well, he's running a terrible campaign. i mean, that's the obvious reason. and the campaign is looking at the past. he's running on his record as governor of florida. it was really a fantastic record. he was an extremely successful

governor, but he left, you know, nearly ten years ago. presidential races are about the future. i think jeb bush has a terrific tax reform plan that would spur the economy which is stagnated under president obama. and he needs to talk about that, make that and other proposals that he has, of things that he would do as president that are forward-looking, that are in the future, instead of running on his record that something that voters don't seem to know about. >> go ahead, mortgage. -- m rochlt t. he has a kempian attitude toward the world but he says in the debate, we are on the edge, of the greatest time in world history. i look forward and see great hope. well, that's fine, except that the public thinking that we're in terrible shape. and we are. that median incomes have not risen for 25 years.

we have a stagnant economy. what he's got to do is acknowledge that we're in trouble. god knows we're in trouble in foreign policy. you have to acknowledge it and say, here's what we're going to do about it. i mean, trump is getting the whole benefit of everything that's going wrong just saying i'm the guy who is going to fix it. and by the way, everybody else is stupid. >> and you're going to bet bored with winning. "snl" comes back tonight, hillary is going to be on "saturday night live." earlier this week, kevin mccarthy seems to have done an enormous favor for her. let's watch this clip and i'll dissect it. >> the question i think you really want to ask me is how am i go to be different? >> go ahead. that is one of my questions. go right ahead. >> what you're going to see is a conservative speaker that take a conserve congress that puts a strategy to fight and win. let me give you one example. everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right?

but we put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are drop. why? because she's untrustable. >> fred, when he links the benghazi commission to her dropping numbers he's confirming the existence of a vast right wing conspiracy, no? >> i don't really think so. look, i have a bias here. i know kevin mccarthy quite well. my son actually works for him. i think it was inartfully said. he seemed to be implying this was done politically to get hillary clinton. when you see what the committee has actually done, the benghazi committee, they have been very straight. look what they uncovered. we wouldn't know anything about the server. we wouldn't know anything about the e-mails or the 400 or more highly classified, maybe they weren't marked that, but classified system that hillary clinton had. we wouldn't know any of that,

that's what's hurt her. it's not because this benghazi committee has been political. >> morton, is he ready for prime time? kevin mccarthy? >> he's not ready. he was sucking up to sean hannity. he was giving sean hannity an answer that he wanted. what have you accomplished as a member of congress? well, as a matter of fact, you don't even know about this -- maybe you do -- the house of representatives has passed a huge increase in medical research funding sponsored by fred upton of the michigan. which -- which is a positive development that will benefit the entire country. does anybody know about it. >> i mean, kevin mccarthy ought to be citing things that have been accomplished by the republican house, if they have. the things that have been. >> gentlemen -- >> -- that benefit everybody, not just the republican party. >> gentlemen, i've got to ask you the question because you've written now the definitive book on jack kemp.

what would jack kemp think of donald trump leading his party? >> he would be totally disgusted. he is -- look, he was -- when he died he was unhappy with where the republican party was going. this is off a cliff. jack kemp is the antithesis in every possible way except high energy of donald trump. jack kemp was in favor of citizenship for illegal immigrants with good records. he was in favor of free trade. he was in favor of positive ideas. he never assaulted an opponent, he would -- the whole idea of running by division is something that had he would be absolutely against. >> look, i work for him, as both of you know, and, fred, i pulled from your book just a coming of reminders. a guy with a strong bipartisan streak. supportive of tax cuts possessed the forethought to pose the irremark invasion.

and the education to children. he was referencial of mlk and april braham lincoln. final question for fred barnes, could jack kemp have competed in this incarnation of the gop? >> yes, i think he would have been the voice of the republican party. >> you think in a party where 53% are supportive of trump, car carly and carson would have been supportive of jack kemp? >> yeah, jack was a very dynamic figure. the republican party needs him. there's also a message from jack camp for president obama. president obama is going to be remembered as the president who wouldn't compromise. a lot of what he's done is going to be a race by the new president if he is a republican. kemp was always ready to compromise. and the things that he succeeded in are things that are part of

the fabric of the american society. >> i agree the country has a need for him. whether this incarnation of the gop would be receptive to him is a whole different question. gentlemen, the book is tremendous. i appreciate you being here. coming up trump and fiorina both ceos claiming their experience qualifies them to run the country. does it? i'll ask of someone who should know. former ceo jack welsh is here. you, my friend, recognize when a trend has reached critical mass. yes, when others focus on one thing, you see what's coming next. you see opportunity. that's what a type e* does. and so it begins. with e*trade's investing insights center, you can spot trends before they become trendy. e*trade. opportunity is everywhere. more data means more freedom to do..whatever.

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is america ready for a ceo-in chief? more to the point, are ceos qualified to run the country? >> donald trump and carly fiorina of two of the top in the polls. and trump said he'd like to name a ceo as his secretary of treasury, take a listen.

>> specifically, who do you think -- give us a name on wall street that you might consider as a secretary of treasury? >> i'll tell you what, i like guys like jack welsh, henry crevice, i'd like to bring my friend carl icahn. we have people that are better at negotiations. we don't use them, joe, we use people that are soft and weak and frankly stupid and incompetent. >> who better to ask about the whole ceo phenomenon than one of those people trump named. former ceo of ge, jack welsh. joins me from las vegas. jack, if he asks, will you serve as treasury secretary? >> no. >> why not? >> michael, i have got a wonderful life. i'm doing my thing. i'm out in vegas talking to groups. i've got my school. i've got a lot of things on my plate. and i don't want a full-time job. >> does the ceo skill set transfer, do you think, to the white house?

>> well, parts of it do, clearly. i meaner there's no clear that leadership, making decisions, setting priorities, differentiating between priorities. absolutely would it translate. now, some of the give and take. some of the negotiating skills, that would depend on the person. >> your tenure at ge was legendary. a 1981 to 2001 reign. the stock value increased e4000 if i'm not mistaken. do you think that jack welch could have gone from ge, from 30 rock to pennsylvania avenue? >> i probably wouldn't have made it. >> that's trump's curse, right? >> could i have done the job? absolutely. would i have the skills? absolutely. could i be elegislated, would i

want to run and be in that, absolutely not. and i don't think i'd be elected. >> isn't that both trump's blessing and his curse that he is so opinionated and unmuscled? >> it's almost interesting. it's must-see tv when he shows up. the first question on trump, trump is on edge's mind. >> i have the same with my radio callers on sirius sm. i guess the serious question is whether he hases the temper meant to be president of the united states. what does jack welch think about that? >> well, i've had two or three things with business with him and he sure gets things done.

you probably saw it, the trump tower in central park. it was going bust. we found trump. gave him some sweat equity, he fixed it in record time. and we walked away with $170 million from a wrecked building. so, i mean, he gets things done. now, now whether or not -- i'm not here endorsing him. i'm just saying he is a doer. there's no question about it. he gets things done. >> let me ask you about another ceo on that stage getting a lot of attention. carly fiorina, of course, was the ceo of hp. your stock value increased 4000%. . hers went down 52%. is that a fair metric on which her judge her tenure at hp? >> i had a longer tenure. i had more time to build her team. and hired away from a

dysfunctional at hp. she may not have had the chance or opportunity. i'm not here to judge her. her tenure in high tech at a very difficult time, i'm not that close to judge. and she got there, she fought through a maze of jobs in life to get there. and she's been very impressive, surprisingly so to me on the interviewing circuit, on the debate stage, he's been impressive. >> i know it's important to jack welch that republicans take the white house in 2016. so, who else on the stage is catching your eye thus far? give me another name. >> rubio, cruz, kasich. >> why does jeb bush's name not roll off of jack welch's lips? >> you know, not to quote donald trump, but he hasn't inspired me with his energy and his commitment. to making this country grow

again. to make this country -- he's got a great record in florida. he's certainly a very attractive man. but does he have the fire in the belly today to change the direction of this country? >> one question about the other side of the aisle. you want to see joe biden get into this? >> well, i -- my view is, the republicans ought to be careful for what they would wish for. they were happy to have hillary lose the last time. and they got president obama. if they keep pushing on this on this thing too far, and joe comes in, i think he'll be a tougher competitor than hillary to beat. >> jack welch. don't put it all on red before you leave that town. >> i won't, michael. thank you so much for having me. >> thanks for being here. >> right. up next -- pulitzer prize winning journalist, big time

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it's become all too common for president obama to play consoler-in-chief. 15 times he sought to comfort us after mass shootings. >> i've had to make statements like this too many times. we must insist here today, there's nothing normal about innocent men and women being gunned down where they work. this is becoming the norm. and we take it for granted. we can't tolerate this anymore. >> the president's been pushing for tougher gun legislation to no avail. david maraniss is a pulitzer prize win. noted historian. joins me from detroit. his latest book "once in a great

city" is all about detroit's fall from an american success story to a symbol of urban decay. we'll get to that. let me tap david maraniss and ask, because you wrote a book on president obama, how is on it? >> i also wrote a book about bill clinton. i'd like to start by saying after clinton's presidency when he asked what his greatest failure was. he said it was his failure to stop the genocide in row wawand. i think president obama will say his greatest regret is not being able to stop the mass shootings in america. i think his regret might be, after sandy hill, he didn't everyday keep pounding away and talking about this, instead of just waiting for the mass

shootings and giving those eloquent speeches. >> yesterday, he said the main thing he intends to do is talk about it. you've kronled the '60s like nobody else. if it were lbj he would have been horse collared on capitol hill to press a deal. is it president obama such a polarizing figure to ever get the republican votes that he needs? >> i think that's half of it. the politics in the united states are too polarized. i wouldn't put it all on president obama. >> i didn't mean to. it's a pox on both of their houses. >> absolutely. >> hey, detroit, like so many of other big cities have been plagued by gun violence. like many americans, 2011, you're watching the super bowl when that chrysler commercial comes on. and it impacted you. why? >> we're from america -- >> well, it brought all the

iconic images of detroit. the joe lewis fist. and it hit me in a deep way because i was born in detroit. and that got me thinking about what i could to do to write about detroit in its magical moment. cars, motown, strong labor under united autoworkers. and the strong civil rights support during that deep period of the '60s. i wanted to write about that moment of magic and incandescence in detroit and the shadow of what was to come. >> life can be luminescent when most vulnerable. what does that mean? >> that means at that point, 1963, everything seemed to be shining in detroit. and yet, all of the shadows of what was to come were there. the structural problems of it being a one-company town and the auto industry especially abandoning detroit.

and the emotional tensions. ever since world war ii, over housing and jobs, the same frustrations that play out in 1967, just after my book, the difficulties that so many urban places were facing, in terms of a declining population. sociologists in 1963 predicted that the city would lose 500,000 people a decade from then on. sadly, they were correct. >> they were right. i loved your treatment of lee a iacocca. and ironically, detroit, while making those cars was taking itself down because dares gave mobility to individuals who were living in detroit and other cities escape to suburbia. >> that is so much the effect of unintended consequences. in two ways, in detroit. those freeways and the cars were just -- were sort of tearing apart the traditional

african-american communities in detroit, making it easier, for the same time, whites to get out of the city and making it harder for blacks to keep their dhu communitiies intact. >> thank you for being here and paying homage to your hometown. >> it's that's david marinus. your tweets today are very revealing and the best are coming up. amins that help support brain health - now that's smart nutrition. ensure's complete balanced nutrition has 26 vitamins and minerals and 9 grams of protein. ensure. take life in.

i always say, you can follow me on twitter if you can spell smerconish. a lot of interesting tweets this hour. put this 1 up. dan, the man, writes to me. this is because we had larry prat on the program saying it is

all about gun-free zones. dan the man says blaming gun-free zones for gun violence is like blaming drug-free zones for drug abuse. point well taken. kristin on the subject of gun violence tweeted at myself and dr. saltz. a lot of these parents are asleep at the wheel. how did this mom not see a need to take guns away? unreal. i raise the point with dr. saltz saying, geez, my kids have some of these characteristics. at what point am i supposed to report or do something? that's the tough call. my favorite tweet of the week, from jacob adler who says, trump and fiorina created jobs. what have you done besides sitting there like a star spangled kid in your herringboneback ket? >> mr. adler, do you know how many jobs were created by making this coat. thank you for your tweets. i'll see you back here next week. d flu season

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movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. the following breaking news. u.s. air strikes in afghanistan. what may be, quote, collateral damage of the bombings as it has been characterized. a hospital run by doctors without borders. at least nine are dead and dozens others hurt. new information servicing about the shooter in that oregon college campus massacre. school officials now confirm the gunman was a student enrolled in the very class where he opened fire. and, we are learning new you details about the victims.