shoes. >> well, i couldn't have afforded those shoes. and now, you have followed it for 20 years, and congratulations on the special, kyra phillips. thank you for coming on with us. >> you bet. >> you bet. >> and wolf starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello, i'm wolf blitzer and it is 1:00 p.m. in washington, and 6:00 p.m. in london and 8:00 p.m. in moscow and 8:30 p.m. in kabul. wherever you are watching in the world, thank you for joining us. the united states planned a deadly bombing in afghanistan, and that is the focus up on capitol hill. the top military commander in afghanistan john campbell is testifying before the pentagon about that bombing which he says was a mistake.

he says it is the u.s.'s decision to go ahead with the air strike of a doctors without borders hospital where 12 aide workers were kill and three children. general campbell testified that afghan forces called in air support, because they were taking fire from enemy positions. >> to be clear, the decision to take the on aero fires was made within the u.s. chain of command. the hospital was mistakingly struck. we would never intentionally target a medically protected faci facility. i must allow the investigation to take its course and i cannot discuss further specifics at this time, but i assure you that it will be thorough and transparent. >> and he went on the say that the special operations team was in the vicinity of the area to help direct the u.s. fighter on taliban positions. we go to barbara starr, our

pentagon correspondent, and the general said that he ordered the retraining for all u.s. forces in afghanistan on the rules of engagement in that country, and what does that tell you? >> that may be the most significant thing that is said about general campbell so far about this. perhaps, perhaps a big hint that he may believe that his troops are not up to date on the rules of engagement that govern what they may legally and not legally do. the rules of engagement, when and how u.s. troops can come in with air support can come in and strike a target on the ground. there's only a couple of reasons that they are allowed to do this. and one is if the u.s. troops are at risk, and there were no u.s. troops that night taking fire according to general ca campbe campbell. and if they were going after al qaeda, and there were only taliban by all accounts, and if the afghans were about to be

overrun, but the afghans were on the counter attack to go back after position ises that the taliban had invaded the town days prior and taken over many areas. obviously doctors without borders still furious, and furious it is called a mistake, and they say they were under attack for 30 minutes, and made phone call, and tried to get it stopped, but nobody stopped the attack on them. i don't believe that anybody believes that the u.s. wantingly went ahead to strike a hospital knowing it was a hospital, but the question is why did the u.s. commanders not know they were hitting a hospital? w wolf. >> it is a good question. the committee also originally was meant, an convened to talk about the overall u.s. presence, and the overall u.s. strategy in afghanistan, and right now the situation is to keep a troop level in afghan to secure and support the embassy in kabul. but general campbell say ss a l

has changed since the original decision was made. listen to what he said at the hearing today. >> based on the conditions on the ground, based on the transitions they have -- that i have talked about, i do believe that we have to provide senior leadership options different from the current plan that we are going with, absolutely. >> is he laying the groundwork possibly for keeping thousands of troops in afghanistan past next year, because almost all of them were to be removed by 2016. >> that is right, wolf. there are about 10,000 troops on the ground and most were expected to come home next year. but look at what is happening there, kunduz in northern afghanistan, the taliban moving in and basically take over the town, and the largest victory since 2001. it unsderscoreunderscores that are trying to make progress according to the u.s., they still, still have a very long way to go to be able to secure

that country. so if the u.s. pulls out entirely, and there is no nato force there, what will happen to the security situation in afghanistan? the republican chairman senator john mccain of that committee this morning making a strong case that he feels more u.s. troops should stay. wolf. >> all right. barbara, thank you. earlier today, the international aid group doctors without borders accused the u.s. forces of deliberate ly bombing that hospital in kunduz city, and they say they are conduct ingin full investigation, but doctors without borders is also asking for a separate inquiry inis cysting that a war crime has been committed. we bring in jason cohen who is the president of doctors without borders, and first, our deepest sympathy for the loss of the colleagues, and the patients there, and the kids there, and why do you believe it was a

deliberate u.s. air strike? >> well, thank you, wolf for the condolen condolences, because it is difficult to have lost 22 staff and patients. given the nature of the attack, and the fact that there are strikes offan extended period of time on the hospital, and on one specific building and the rest of the compound remained untouched, we believe it is critical that an independent and impartial investigation is conducted. we certainly are willing to cooperate with the defense department investigation as well as nato and afghan government investigations, but the fact of the matter is that a hospital that has been operational since 2011 for which we had told all the relevant contacts at u.s. military both at civilian and military leadership level about that we were continuing to operate. we had nearly 200 patients and staff inside, no one can claim to the have not know what this building was doing, and who it was treating and that we were

providing impartial medical care in a war zone as we do in many operations around the world. >> and who do you want to conduct this -- i assume some international investigation? >> we are still looking into, that and we feel that it needs to have an independence and international character to it, and we do feel it is critical in the last 72 hours given the repeated changes of positions from being a quote/unquote collateral damage to air strike called in by afghan military to now this latest statement by general campbell that it was done through the u.s. chain of command. and so the changing story just drives to us the reinforces us to the point that it needs to be independent, and independent investigation to have any credibility. this is about respect for the laws of war. and the international humanitarian law. this attack was a grave violation of the laws. until we are told otherwise and until we see an independent

investigation, we assume it is a war crime. >> and war crime is strong words, and do you believe that the pie lots and the crew members of this a krshc-130 tha dropped the munitions on the hospital, they knew in fact it was a hospital, and that there were doctors and nurses and patients and children inside, and they deliberately wanted to e blow blow it up? >> it is up to u.s. coalition authorities to prove otherwise. we have done everything that we have done on the front of this compound that we have provided the proper ethic, and we have provided the gps coordinates to washington and kabul and we find it very difficult to believe that people were not aware of the intent and the purpose of this facility. the fact that over 400 people were treated in the days before,

and then we called the same notify to say that the attack was going, and repeatedly continued for 15 increments, and killing the hospital and the staff, and there has to be an accounting for that and it has to be done independently and that can be be complimentary to the other investigations under the auspices of nato and the u.n., and we feel it is relevant. >> is there any way that the taliban could have been firing from within that hospital or near that hospital that could have inspired this attack? >> our staff tell us on the ground and note that we we had close to the 80 staff both on the ground working in the hospital that it was quiet in the compound until the air strikes started. we cannot accept that armed

forces enter the hospital, and that is something we cannot allow that, because it does not respect. it says on the front gates of the hospital that you cannot en tr with wep -- cannot enter with weapons. and we have made it clear to afghan and u.s. authorities. and all of the way back to 2009 that after having left for five years after the killing of our colleagues in 2004. so it is the fundamentals of the geneva conventions in humanitarian law that armed groups respect the sanctity of the medical facilities, and respect that weapons cannot en tr, and that we will treat the wounded civilians and combatants. when they are wounded, they are civilians and treated as such. it is striking to hear general

campbell to re-educate the armed forces about the basic rules of engagement. that is what this is about, and it is not just about the patients of afghan, but any conflict zone that we work, the basic humanity that under humanitarian law, that medical facilities are respected spaces. there are no longer other humanitarian groups in kunduz, and now they have lost medical care at a dire time in the midst of a war zone. >> it is the city of 300,000, and the fifth largest city in afghanistan, and jason cone, thank you so much for joining us. we know that doctors without borders does important work around the world, and it is a huge tragedy that they have now had to abandon the work in kunduz city. thank you for coming on to talk about it. we will talk about the u.s. role in this as well as afghanistan. and two more presidential

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story, and the outrage of the deadly u.s. bombing of a hospital in afghanistan and the explanations of how it happened. appearing before of the senate armed forces committee today, the top military commander said that the doctors without borders medical center was struck by accident. and general john campbell said that the extraordinary measures were made to protect the civilians there. and now, joining us is republican candidate for president rand paul. and thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> and what about the statement from the doctors without border that it wast not a mistake, but an intentional war crime.

>> and there is confusion if it was or not, and the coordinates were given to somebody, because they kept bombing the same spot, and there is a bigger question, and it is one that president obama should answer, what is the u.s. objective and what is the mission, and why are we bombing anybody in afghan? we had a clear cut mission after 9/11, but it is long gone for many years now sh, and the afgh need to step up, and defend themselvesk but there is no reason for the u.s. to be involved there at all at this point, and the tragic accidents will happen when you are involved with war, but i don't know why we are still involved in afghanistan. >> well, i will get to that in a moment, but you are a physician and doctor, and do you agree with the executive director of do doctors without borders that in addition to the u.s. investigation, and the nato investigation, and the afghan investigation, there should be also an impartial outside international investigation?

>> yes, i don't mind an outside international investigation, but somebody needs to step up, and say, why are we there and what s is the policy? doctors and hospitals should never be targeted, and so that is completely unacceptable, but if it is an accident, it is still bad policy, because why are we dropping the bombs in afghanistan. and we have been helping them for ten years or moshgs and they should step up to combat against any insurgeon circumstances and there is no clear-cut u.s. role, and if we are back to war in afghanistan, the president should come to congress and ask for permission, and we should say, why are we in war, and have a debate over that, but we should not be in perpetual war all over to the globe. >> and they say that if the united states pulls out, potentially the taliban could take over, and afghanistan would be right back to where they were before 9/11. >> and a my question is why? we have given them billions and

billion billions of dollars, and we have spent more in afghanistan than the marshall plan. why should we have to defend them? do we have to defend them in perpetuity? often people will not stand up to defend themselves if we are doing it for them. and the entire defense minus some armaments and support, but we should not be in afghanistan. they have had over a decade or more to defend themselves. >> and what about if you were the president of the united states right now, what would you do about russia in syria? >> well, first thing is very important to have the open lines of communication, and we have some in the primary carly fiorina wiho says she does not want to have talk to putin. we well, good thing she was not in

office when we were at war. so we need to know how to find common ground and how the destroy isis. i am very worryied about an accident over there and some republicans who don't want to have no dialogue, because it is a recipe for disdisaster. >> and you have described to me in the past, the noninterventionist policy, and you are not an isolationist, but you want to be concerned about getting involved in afghanistan, iraq and other places in hot spots? >> well, i am for diplomatic agreement, and people like carly fiorina wants to isolate us, and not have any discussions with putin. i am for international diplomacy, and i say, don't do anything rash to start world war

three, and start from history ohow we got to this point. once hussein was toppled, there is stronger allies of iraq and iran, and so i argue now that the iraq war was a mistake, and enabled russia to become stronger in the region, and that is what we have to think about before we topple another dictator, and what are the unintended consequences to topple leaders in the middle east. >> if you were the president, what would you do to tighten up the gun control in the united states? >> it is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the families, and i have a couple of kids in college and high school, and i can't imagine something like that happening in the school, but the thing is that they have universal registration in oregon. they have significant gun registration laws, and i don't believe that more controls are the answer. i do believe that we should not preannounce no the public, and the potentially crazy and homicidal people that they can go to shoot people, and that is

what we have done with the schools. there the are no armed guards or armed teachers or armed off duty policemen, and that is a mistake. we should do the opposite, and we should announce across america that there are not gun-e free zones to where you can shoot people, and i think that if we did, there is some deterrent effect. i believe the same for the commercial airliners. after 9/11, i was a proponent to having our pilots armed and i have bills to sponsor that. because i want the jihadists to know that if you come into the cockpit, you will be shot. and there is a deterrent when crazy people use ss a gun, but have seen deterrents yesterday that is the vo-lock website that there should be areas that can

be armed. >> thank you, senator paul. we will be back live to discuss the future of u.s. troops in afghanistan. aspirin regimen. you totalled your brand new car.

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it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. back to the top story, the top u.s. military commander testifying up on capitol hill talking about the military plans overall in in that country, and this comes after a deadly air strike on a hospital. and that recreates a strong reaction when 22 people were killed including aide workers and patients. joining us is mac thornberry. and general campbell said that after this bombing he wants to

engage in new instructions of all top u.s. military, and after 9/11, the u.s. military moved in there for almost 1 the same rul since that time, and why change them now? >> well, the u.s. needs to advise the afghan security forces more than the president allowed. the president insisted going below 10,000, and so we have less interaction and lessen gaugement with -- lessen gaugement with the afghan government and so if you are looking at few er people to the look at the rules of engagement when we bring the air power to bear only makes sense. >> almost all of the u.s. troops are supposed to be out of

afghanistan next year and only a few remaining to protect the u.s. embassy in kabul, and is that a mistake in your opinion, because senator rand paul says he wants all u.s. troops out of there. >> yes, and afghanistan will turn into iraq, and that is what we did in iraq, withdrew everybody but a few people around the embassy, and look at the mess krcreated since then. and look, we are in afghanistan for the exact same reason tas we we were there in the fall of 2001, to prevent at a tacks from being masterminded or launched from there against us. and the fact is that afghanistan is always going to be very attractive to terrorists. they have a lot of, a large amount of ungoverned spaces. they have the illegal drug crop that can help to finance them, a and the history there of terrorism. so, you are seeing isis growing today in afghanistan as well as al qaeda, as well as the

taliban. so, for us to stick our head s in the sand and say, we are walking away, and think that we we will leave all of that over there, is just delusional. >> and you know the criticism that the u.s. has spent tense of billions of dollars training the afghan troops and military an afghan police, and the question and lost thousands of lives in the process, and so many of tens of thousands have come home obviously deeply injured and wounded, and the point is why can't the afghans get the job done with this enormous u.s. investment in their training? >> well, i think that they can eventually. but as americans, we tend to be impatient and we want to spend a bunch of money, and get the job done and come home, and unfortunately for missions like this to beef up security forces and be more capable, it is going to take longer than that. as a matter of fact, one of the issues that i want to focus this fall in our armed services committee is to look at examples of where our train and assist

efforts have worked with well, and where they have not worked well, and look at the reasons underlying that. and we should not think, i believe, it is a get it done quick sort of thing. it takes longer. >> one final question before i let you go, mr. chairman, who do you want to be the next speaker of the house of representatives? >> kevin mccarthy would do a great job, and he has been very involved in national security issue, and traveling abroad and engaging with foreign leaders and outside experts like condoleezza rice and others for the national security which is what i care for the most, thhe clear think best choice and would do a great job. >> thank you, mac thornberry, the chairman of the house armed services committee. and the chairman of the senate armed services committee john mccain will be joining me later

at 5:30 eastern. >> and hillary clinton has attacked people investigating her e-mails. and elijah cummings will be on next to talk about this more.

that just tastes better. with more vitamins. and less saturated fat. only eggland's best. better taste. better nutrition. better eggs. hillary clinton is using her republican's own leaders to yus a campaign ad which is going to take aimt at kevin mccarthy's comments about benghazi and the select committee. >> and the republicans finally admit it. >> republican kevin mccarthy say hag that the committee investigating benghazi is really meant to deis stroi hillary

clinton. >> we put together a benghazi special committee. what are her numbers today. >> republicans have spent millions to attack hillary and it is because of everything that they oppose, and she is never go going to stop fighting for you, and they know it. >> i approve this message. the select committee of benghazi is to find the truth, period. the integrity of chairman trey gowdy and the rest of the committee is e beyond reproach. the mission of the select committee on benghazi is to find the truth, period. the serious questions secretary clinton faces are due entirely to her own decision to put classified information at risk. and the republicans have engaged in a selected series of leaked

messages to attack secretary clinton with unsubstantiated or previously debunked allegations. and it sounds like it is getting into the bare knuckle politics right now, and what is your sense, and the latest going on? what is the whole select committee process, because the whole committee could be en d g endangered? >> and clearly, kevin mccarthy is trying to walk the words back, wolf, but he can't. he basically affirmed what has been happening over the last year or so. we have had a situation where republicans have been leaking transcripts and -- sorry are, leaking various statements, and they give you half the truth, but they don't give you everything. so therefore, basically what we have said is, look, few you are going to put out e-mails then we want to make shure that those

e-mails are put out in a way that you have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. the same with cheryl mills who had a transcribed interview, and then they said that it was going to be treated as a classified interview, and within moments, wolf of the interview over, the republicans were leaking information again half truths and limited information, and all we are saying is, look, let's put out the entire transcript. >> and cheryl mills is the top the aide to hillary clinton, a nd they say you guys are turning it into a partisan political fight days before a public appearance of hillary clinton and they say that the committee selectively leaked top aides to show the willingness to violate the spirit of the house rules and

the desire to violate the letter and spirit of house rules, and by selectively leaking out statements and their desire to defend secretary clinton without regard to the integrity of the investigation. most democrats on the benghazi comm committee have have endorsed clinton. is that what you are seeing? >> well, most of the statement of kevin mccarthy is to derail secretary clinton. it is interesting that statement because pack in june, chairman g gowdy is the one who released the e-mails of bloomenthal and secretary clinton and so we are trying to clear the record. i said from the beginning that we would go after the truth, the

whole truth and nothing but the truth and be there to defend the truth. when you put out e-mail, and there is no context, and he started it. what we are doing is to clear the record. one other thing that has happened that the we can not dismiss, and that is that kevin mccarthy has made it abundantly clear that when they put the committee together, it is to basically derail the campaign of hillary clinton. everything that i have seen with this committee has been bearing it out. basically he really affirmed what was already happening. >> and now -- >> and he can't walk it back by the way. >> and let me shift gears here on one thing, guns in america, and in a recent article in the "baltimore sun" and i will read it. specifically, people in my neighborhood tell me that these are 15-year-olds who tell me that they can get a gun faster than they can get a cigarette. maryland has very strict gun control laws as you well know. why is that possible? >> i think that, keep in mind that as a young boy in my neighborhood said, we don't

produce the guns, and these guns are coming from elsewhere. we need to have a clear laws with regard to the straw purchasers and making sure that the straw purchasers are p punished when they buy the guns for people who should not have gun, and that is one of the biggest problems, and as a matter of fact, congressman maloney, carol maloney and i have a bill directly to that issue of gun trafficking. there is more to be done, and again, they don't produce guns in my neighborhood. >> and elijah cummings of maryland, thank you for joining us, congressman. >> thank you. just into cnn and another news of a flight force toddy vert after the pilot became ill. we will have the details in a moment.

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ill. this is the second incident like this in as many days. we go the reny marsh, and walk us through what happened? >> well, wolf, the information coming in from the airport at albuquerque, new mexico, and they say they diverted because the first pilot was unconscious, and this flight from houston to go the san francisco had to divert to the al bu ker can ki, new mexico, airport. we know that once this once the aircraft landed safely, and the medics were at the scene to check out the co-pilot, but after examination, the co-pilot was able to walk himself off of the plane, and we know that he was transported to the hospital, and now at this point, united airlines is working to get the passenger f passengers to the final destination. but of course, why we are so paying attention to this story is because it comes one day

after we heard that american airlines' pilot died in the cockpit mid flight, and that flight had to be diverted, and that happening yesterday, and here we are today, a co-pilot on united airlines unconscious forcing that flight to divert, but the good news here, it sounds like the co-pilot will survive and he is getting the treatment that he needs. >> all right. let's hope for the the best. thank you, rene. >> the ohio republican presidential candidate is joining me today in the studio, governor john kasich. and we have so many key issues to talk about, and no republican president has ever been elected without carrying your state, the state of ohio, and governor kasich is with me after this.

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there's outrage over that u.s. air strike over a hospital, deep concern over russia's move to put more troops into syria. let's discuss what's going on including the race for the white house. the ohio governor, the gop presidential candidate is here. thank you for joining us. what would you do in afghanistan right now if you were president of the united states. >> i mean, first of all, we have to expressi our dope apologies for what happened and the thing you'd immediately do is convene all the military experts you have, the civilian experts and figure out how we stabilize the situation and we wouldn't be sending a signal we wouldn't just get out of there. didn't even have a base and it

didn't make any sense. i don't want to make the same mistake in afghanistan. >> there's about 10,000 u.s. troops in afghanistan, 4,000 other nato troops. by the end of next year, it's suppo supposed to be down to a few protecting the embassy. they have spent 15 years training all these afghan military personnel and police. but they can't get their act together. >> i don't think we want to -- we don't need to build up the force. i'm a believer we should use specific forces to go after the taliban. but i wouldn't draw this or say we're going to have a thousand there by the end of the obama presidency. this is a place you sit down. i served on the armed services committee for 18 years. i've been involved in defense issues all my life in the pentagon after 9/11 helping to bring technology people in. this is a place you sit down and figure out the right strategy. if you start predicting what they are going to be without

those conversations, i think you come up short. >> the u.s. has spent tens of billions of dollars training these afghan troops. tens of billions training iraqi troops. when the going gets tough, isis comes in, they abandon their positions. they leave armored vehicles behind and run away. >> look, initially when we did the expansion, i wouldn't have supported that. . if i were president, i would have questioned advisers about the need to be able to go to problem areas. not try to occupy the country or build up the forces, but to be able to respond wherever the crisis is at any moment in time with elite troops that have mobility. that's what i would have done. >> should the u.s. support a a no-fly zone to prevent rebels? >> we should have been supporting the rebels years ago. at least a year ago or so, i called john boehner and john mccain and said, look, i will do anything i can as governor. i know people to say that we should be helping the rebels to

depose assad because that's iran/assad/russian connection. now i think a no-fly zone provided a sanctuary for people to be safe. . if people violate the no-fly zone, there's a a consequence. >> if the russians want to continue these airstrikes, what happens to them? >> you don't fly into a no-fly zone. look, i'm a person that means what i say and say what i mean. if i were president of the united states and we had a no-fly zone, it would be made clear to everyone do not fly in the middle of a no-fly zone. the idea that the united states is not able to take a strong position to assert itself is creating confusion with our allies and also encouraging our enemies. so i believe the no-fly zone is the right way to go. i think it sends a mess aage to our friends in the region. it also allows us to protect some folks and at same time to support the rebels and make it

clear we're going to destroy isis. we have the coalition together, we ought to move. >> let's talk about guns in america. would you support ending that loophole so people can't go. to a gun show or a private distributor and start buying guns without any background check at all? >> you're supposed to be held accountable if you're involved in a private sale, but i don't know how you're going to regular private sales. it's a different situation and it's not that simple. the problem is i don't think the lack of gun laws, i think the problem is we have a society where people become increasingly isolated. they become estranged, they have no family, they don't have much community. it was a community where we all cared a about one another. i have been involved and invested a a lot in mental illness in ohio. it's one of the reasons i expanded meds kad. it's those kind of things. if you focus on the gun, you're

missing the bigger picture which is the fact people have been isolated and try to take away guns isn't going to solve the problem. >> you need to go through a background check. but at a gun show, you don't have to go through a background check. there's a problem it there. >> there's a private issue here. if i'm going to sell you a gun, do i have to go through all this checking? are we supposed to have some responsibility as they are at the gun show? they should exercise that responsibility. i don't think more laws are going to fix this. >> how do you stop these mass killings that we have seen in oregon this week and what's going on in general? >> every one of these folks have been people who were estranged, isolated with a family that doesn't know what to do with them. reading about the mom of this latest mass murder, she felt she couldn't control her son and there was no way for anybody to intervene. we have to get to the root cause of this.

we need to love our neighbors and be there to help them. i think sometimes people feel lonely, estranged, outcasts and take action. that's what we need to get to the root of in this country. >> the nbc news poll that came out in new hampshire. september you were 12%. you're down to 6% now. what happened? >> nothing really happens. polls are fluid and volatile. the key to this presidential race is what kind of organization, what is the depth of your organization, the strength of your organization in both iowa and new hampshire and going forward. we have the best organization in new hampshire. there's no question we have the best and i'll rely on that to win an election and the polls will fluctuate. >> i'm going to do better. i'm not ali, but i have to do better than you think i'm going to do. we'll see where we are when that time comes.

>> thank you very much for joining us. good luck to you. . i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern. the first democratic presidential debate a week from today in las vegas. in the meantime, thanks for watching. the news continues next on cnn. i'm pamela brown, thank you for being here with me. for the second day in a row, a flight diverted because of a medical emergency in the cockpit. this time the first officer on board a united flight became unconscious. . let's go live to renee marsh in d.c. renee, what can you tell us about this? >> pam, we know this was a united flight 1614. it was scheduled to arrive in san francisco. however, it had to divert to albuquerque, new mexico. the airport there saying the reason for the diversion was because the co-pilot was unconscious. so they had