candidates might surprise you. that's tomorrow at 6:00 eastern. don't forget about the democrats presidential debate. it's tuesday, october 13, live from las vegas. i'll be doing the facebook questions. anderson cooper will be moderating. see you back here tomorrow night at 9:00. "ac 360" starts right now. whether it's ben carson, it's been quite a day so far. get drid for a very busy two hours ahead tonight. chaos within the republican party, chaos, shock waves, an apparent veiled threat and a whole lot of intrigue, all of it surrounding the unexpected and largely unexplained decision by congressman kevin mccarthy to drop out of the race to become the next speaker of the house. second in line after vice president biden to the president of the united states. his announcement came after

fellow republicans were about to cast a doubt on his candidacy, a candidacy he said he expected to win. his colleagues said any leadership candidate who conducted misdeeds should withdraw. it has thrown the party into turmoil with the government party looming with serious business that needs to be done. cnn's dana bash and raja is with us. dana, let's start with you. he made it look like he was still in the race. >> this was after two other candidates for speaker at the time had just given their kind of closing arguments behind closed doors to the republican caucus. he walked by our camera. i asked him how he was feeling. take a look. . >> can you give a statement? are you going to get the votes

at 12:00? >> the question was, are you going to have the votes at 12:00. 12:00 was the meeting where everybody filed in. there was going to be a secret ballot and he thought he was going to get all he needed at the time, which was a majority of the republican caucus, 125 votes, but it didn't even get that far, of course. instead he went in, and while everybody was eating barbecue at the back of the room, a lot of people didn't hear him, apparently the acoustics weren't great. and john boehner also surprised because he found out moments before said they were going to oppose the election and they fired him moments later.

c what any speaker needs to become speaker is 200 votes. he said he probably could have eked through to get that but it would have been very hard for him to govern. i was told by sources it was still not really clear he would get the 218 votes, but even if he did, in order to get that, he would have had to really make serious deals and concessions to some of the most conservative members of the house of representatives, the so-called house freedom caucus. they were asking for things that mccarthy felt like if he gave on, whether it was more power or different rules governing the republican caucus, it would have made him as house speaker -- it would have been almost meaningless. it would have been very hard for him to be an effective speaker, so that's one of the reasons -- >> what about the comments about benghazi? >> benghazi, absolutely. he admitted that that was something -- he admitted today that was something that really hurt him.

the minute he said on tv that he simply thought that hillary clinton was hurt politically by the house select committee on benghazi, the one that he and his fellow republicans had worked for months and months and months to try to argue was not political that that was a very big problem but it was also a problem not just about that, but about questions about his ability to communicate and lead the republican conference. >> north carolina congressman walter jones circulated a letter asking that the candidate for speaker of the house withdraw himself from the election if there were any, quote, misdeeds he's committed since joining congress. what do you know about that letter or was it just a coincidence? >> it was a really curious thing. you don't see something like this emerge particularly in a leadership race like this. walter jones is a 20-year congressman. he's been through a lot of controversies and scandals over the years, and he said he did not want another situation to emerge in which a leadership candidate, he did not name anyone specifically, but any

leadership candidate would ultimately be forced to resign and it would look bad for the republican party. he said that he wanted to actually implement a rules change that would force some of these candidates to step aside. now, kevin mccarthy was asked that today at the press conference, whether or not this prompted his decision to abruptly pull out. he denied that that had anything to do with it. he cited the reasons that dana suggested, but it has caused a lot of speculation on capitol hill, but all we know right now is what he said is why he resigned, because of how hard it would be for him to govern, how hard it would be for him to get those 218 votes to become the next house speaker. >> so dana, what happens now? paul ryan says he doesn't plan to run. you have tsome information abou that. >> yes. by all accounts, talking to the most conservative members, those who didn't want kevin mccarthy to be the house speaker, and

talking to the most moderate members, they say paul ryan is really the guy now, the one person who can unite the party, who has the respect from all corners of the caucus to do that. the problem is paul ryan has said repeatedly he doesn't want the job. he has his dream job for this point in his life, he is the ways and means chair, meaning it is the tax writing committee that he is now the head of. he is a policy wonk. his dream is to reform the tax code of this country and do it in a way that gives him a good legacy there. he's a young guy, and maybe do some other things in his life, not stay in the house forever. but this is something that he certainly didn't plan. we know that john boehner, the current house speaker, has been asking him to reconsider today. others have been doing the same. although ryan's aides are telling us it is a no way, no how, paul ryan left the door a little open on capitol hill today. >> thank you both of you.

perspective as someone watched kevin mccarthy dropped his bombshell to republican thomas king. >> i know you were in support of kevin mccarthy for a speakership. did you have any idea this was come sng. >> none whatsoever. we had a meeting this morning at 8:00 and kevin gave a very impassioned speech. he had some questions that were raised about benghazi, but he was totally committed to running. i know when the conference began, i was actually talking to chafit sfwlrks. he was assuming kevin would win. the room just seemed stunned. i would say one third of the room dindn't even hear him because there was a lot of noise in the room. no one was paying attention because this was just a routine comment he was making, and then

others like myself thought we heard what he said, we weren't sure. then john boehner got up and said, if you heard what kevin just said, we won't be voting today. people were looking at each other like, what just happened? >> you actually saw republicans crying. >> there were some that broke down. one, they like kevin, but also what's happening to the party. we've never, as far as i know, had a speaker removed midterm because of policy differences. you had corruptions with other speakers but nothing like this. john boehner resigning in the mil middle of his term. now you had kevin mccarthy who was going to get 90% of the vote today suddenly announce he's not running. >> what do you think is the story? it seems like you're saying he had the votes he needed. >> well, he had the votes to be endorsed by the party, but the story was there is a so-called freedom caucus who has about 30,

35 members. they were going to withhold their votes from kevin on the house floor, so he wouldn't have gotten to 218. i don't think he should have given up yet. to take those guys on, you can't allow a small group like that to hijack the entire party. >> there is this letter making the rounds that says essentially, if you have skeletons in the closet, don't run for speaker of the house. he said he wasn't talking about anything in particular and mccarthy said the letter had no bearing on his decision. what do you make of that, just coincidence? >> to me that has no place in politics, and as far as i'm concerned, it meant nothing at all and i prefer to leave it that way. >> so where does this leave your party? you were quoted in the "washington post" as saying congress is the banana republic right now. >> we never moved a speaker under circumstances like this before in the effect john was removed. then we had a person who had 90% of the votes required, and he suddenly decides not to run. we have governor default possibly coming up because of

the national debt. we have budget votes, we have so many important votes coming up and we don't even have a speaker. second in line to be president. my choice right now, i think, would be paul ryan, and just from what i'm hearing not from paul myself, and i'm not close to paul, but there are people who do feel that paul may decide to run. there is a lot of -- i shouldn't say pressure because nobody can pressure paul to do anything. >> in the past he said he's not interested. >> he said that as recently as this afternoon. but this tremendous -- i use the word pressure -- being brought on by really well-intentioned people who might tell him he might be the only one who can bring all the factions of the party together. >> how concerned should other people be that this could usher in another government shutdown? >> i'm very concerned about a government shutdown. first of all, governmentally, it's wrong. it affects the nation's credit

rating and we saw that happen two years ago. it also affects, as republicans, our standing with the people and it sends a terrible message to the world. here you have the greatest so-called partisan body to not even pay its debts. people say they're conservative. how can they refuse to pay debts we owe? >> congressman king, i appreciate your time. >> thank you, anderson. at the top of the broadcast we said a lot happening today. next, dr. ben carson already taking heat for saying he would stand up to a gunman like the one in roseburg, oregon. now, according to him, he said he was confronted by a gunman years ago. did he stand up to him? we'll tell you what he said. donald trump saying who should be leading in congress as he enters a crucial phase in his

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ben carson was talking to wolf blitzer explaining the controversy of the last days over other controversy he actually said. he said if he ever found himself facing a gunman like he did in roseburg last week, he would rush the shooter even if it meant his life. he regretted saying wounded survivors should too more and he was just giving advice for the future. that's been a clip of an experience some years back in which he said he did come face to face with the gunman, and instead of taking him on, told

him he should be pointing the gun at someone else, not him. he is also over a storm, carson would be the first real african-american president. blitzer asked him about all of it today. >> you spoke about a personal incident in a sirius xm radio interview yesterday and you were confronted by a gunman. i'll play the little clip. this is from the radio interview. >> a guy comes in, puts the gun in my ribs, and i just said, i believe that you want the guy behind the counter. >> in a calm way? in a calm way, okay. >> he said, oh, okay. >> so you just -- redirected him to -- >> yeah, i redirected him. >> that sounds counter to what you're recommending right now. >> that's a completely different situation. this is somebody who comes into a joint to rob it, not somebody

who is sequentially killing people. >> but you didn't know he was just going to rob the joint, he could have potentially killed you. >> i did know that. the fact of the matter is maybe this is a level of sophistication that people learn from living on the streets, but i knew that guy was not there to murder anybody. i knew he was not there to murder all the people, i knew he was there to rob the place. >> ben and candy carson, terrific. what about a real black president who can properly address the racial divide and much else? that's a pretty shocking statement. he's now apologized in effect, but that was pretty ugly. >> i know rupert murdoch. he's not a racist by any stretch of the imagination. he's just expressing his opinion. i think it's much to-do about nothing. >> a lot of ground to cover. i talked about it with carson's business manager and cnn reporter malik anderson. this tweet about a real black

president, unquote, dr. carter says it's much ado about nothing. the history of not just -- for president obama, this question started to get raised back in 2007. is it he black enough to get the black vote? once he received the black vote, is he black enough? will he represent black interests? i think it was a ridiculous tweet. i'm glad that mr. murdoch apologized for it. there is no place right now in the conversation about whether someone is black enough or real black, whatever that means. he has been a president of all people. he's been a president who has served with dignity and respect of everyone, and i would hope that after the tweet and mr. murdoch's decision to back off from it that we don't have to have this stupid conversation again. >> armstrong, as donna said, rupert murdoch apologized, that

he didn't mean to offend anyone, that he finds both dr. carson and president obama, quote, charming. to you, what does it mean? >> you know, it's freedom of speech, anderson, and he expressed something that if you're on talk radio like i am in the evening you hear all the time. i guess it takes on more meaning and moreau fen offensive if it' someone who happens to be rupert murdoch. it depends who says it, who gives it meaning, who gives it power. it's not about race and what is going to get this country back on the right footing, but still, he has a right to his opinion and he has the right to express them through tweets. >> you think the tweet actually hit on something that republican voters take to. >> that's right, i think that ben carson, and at least part of his appeal is the fact that he is african-american, and you've had republicans for a while look for sort of a great black hope,

and this has been intensified in many ways in the era of obama. it existed certainly around condoleezza rice and colin powell, but certainly it was only elevated once obama rose to the presidency. you have a party in terms of republicans who not only are battling this i am imagimage th not a broad party, an inclusive party. they have an answer where they can refute that idea. they all of a sudden appear to be a much more diverse party. if you think about the history of the republican party, never before has a black person won a single primary state or caucus state in a presidential primary. in that way i think carson does represent a hope among republicans to move forward and kind of be a more diverse party. in some ways i think murdoch was hitting on that theme. >> but when i was a child growing up in the deep south, and armstrong, you're southern. malcolm x, martin luther king throughout history, booker t.

washington approached, marcus garvey. yes, rupert murdoch stepped right into it, comparing him to someone else who was an african-american, basically saying he will become the real black president as if armstrong says his opinion matters to any of us. the truth is that it's offensive, and some people even said that it was racist. it had no place in the ndiadial that we're having today. dr. carson is run ning on his record not just as a medical doctor but his vision of the country. i think that's what the american people want to talk about, they want to talk about your vision. they don't want to talk about your race. >> armstrong, one of the people told cnn last night that he was upset about dr. carson's remarks and he didn't understand how a person would take that position unless they lived it.

carson said he was a customer at a fast food restaurant, someone pulled a gun, he says, on him, he says he told the gunman, i believe you want the guy behind the counter, sort of redirecting the gunman to the guy behind the counter. some people look at that and say, that doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would rush a shooter. >> that is an entirely different situation. dr. carson just happened to be in popeye's. i think this actually happened about 25 years ago, and the gunman pulled out the gun and many of the patrons panicked, and dr. carson calmly started talking to the gunman saying, listen, i don't think you're here to harm anybody, i think you're here to hold the place up, and if that's what you want is money, i think you should go to the cashier. the guy went to the cashier, he emptied his tray, the guy walked out and nobody was harmed. he used his judgment, he defused the situation and the guy wasn't shooting. >> how do you know some panicked gunman or nervous gunman or any kind of a gunman is not going to end up shooting somebody in the midst of a robbery, and if that

had happened, then redirecting him to a "don't talk to me, go to this guy." is that the best thing to do? >> i can tell you for a fact in that situation it did not happen. nobody died. nobody was harmed. he got the money and he left. >> you're also adding other things that carson said, sort of talking to him. we're basing on what carson said, just saying, you got the wrong guy, you want to go over there. you're comfortable with that? >> dr. carson told this story ages ago. it's very personal, it's very private. this is not a new story to me. >> i asked you last night on this program if he had ever been in a situation where somebody pointed a gun and you didn't tell this story. >> because you know what, it was not important. that was not my place. i would never talk about this until dr. carson started talking about this today. listen, i respect dr. carson. when i'm on tv, basically what i say, i don't say things unless i clear it with him. he's the candidate.

i respect that. the fact that he was willing to talk about it, it's okay for me to talk about it now. >> armstrong williams, thank you. good to have you on again. malik henderson, donna brazil. thank you. >> thank you. the trump campaign says you will begin to see more of his wife melania, his daughter bianca. we'll see how they will play in the white house.

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. welcome back. with just five days to go until the cnn democratic debate in las vegas, the debate is popular with republicans also. the marco rubio event is about to get under way shortly. a watcher of donald trump as he's about to enter the next phase, i understand donald trump weighed in on kevin mccarthy

dropping out as speaker. what did he say? >> this yearn for the washington outsider is what's helping drive trump, and he actually took credit today for helping to drive down kevin mccarthy. >> i want to start by saying kevin mccarthy is out. you know that, right? [ cheers and applause ] >> and they're giving me a lot of credit for that because i said, you really need somebody very, very tough and very smart. >> you can see there trump sort of saying he brought this toughness to the race. he said washington is -- he's never seen the kind of animosity toward washington. that's helping to propel his candidacy. >> what about the rest of his speech? >> well, the rest of the speech was a lot of the red meat that he knows will fire up his base here. anderson, they were fired up. when he talked about repealing

obamacare, he got applause for that. he ticked through his list of opponents calling marco rubio a lightweight, distancing carly fiorina. the question is, how far does that get you? that's where donald trump is right now, he sees he's still at the top of the polls, but he doesn't have the same wide lead in a lot of states that he's had up to this point. so his campaign tried to cash this as a speech today. the question is how long does that last? >> today's ooerevent, mr. trumpo turned the spotlight to his key advisers who largely stayed out of the spotlight. take a look. >> my wife says today -- and ivanka, has anyone heard of ivanka? and melania. they're two great women. they're going to start campaigning pretty soon and they're going to be good. >> for many people, it will be

their first chance to maybe get to know the two most important women in donald trump's life. for now randy kaye h-- randi ka a preview. >> ivanka trump, the most important woman in donald trump's life. no surprise, she is perhaps the most well known of his children and frequently mentioned by him on the campaign trail. trump has even said if he becomes president, his children will likely take over his companies. right now ivanka oversees acquisitions for the family business. >> we purchased a lot during the downturn. we're in the process of renovating that and bringing it to fruition. >> ivanka, who in 1987, graced many magazines as a model, graduated from the wharton school. she also had a brand of shoes,

clothes and accessories. she also worked as a mentor helping working women. >> i support that with a website that has a really compelling and inspiring narrative to encourage these women to pursue their dreams. >> donald trump's hit show "the apprentice" really helped propel his daughter ivanka to stardom. >> i address the needs of the modern working woman. >> ivanka once was with "that '70s star" jerry grace. she now shares a $16 million penthouse at trump park avenue with their two children. a third is on the way. ivanka's stepmother, melania trump, is equally important in donald trump's wife. donald first met melania back in 1998. the former model told people

magazine she thought trump had, quote, sparkle. her recent interview with people was her first since her husband announced his run for presidency. she's seen, but unlike ivanka, rarely heard. the senior editor of people when wrote the article said melania has had a busy summer, traveling with the couple's nine-year-old son baron of whom she is the main caregiver. they have a cook but no nanny. >> she enjoys pilates and fashion. does she see herself as first lady? maybe not as clearly as her husband does, saying it's a long road, that her husband has a lot of people cheering for him, but she takes it day by day. >> they live in a 64-floor apartment in the trump tower. she became a naturalized citizen in 2006, the year after she

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hillary clinton and bernie sand erers will face each other the debate stage. so far their rhetoric and rapport has been combative to say the least. here's randi kaye. >> it's a relationship that's hard to define. >> i know bernie. i respect his enthusiastic and intense advocacy of his ideas. >> maybe i shouldn't say this. i like hillary clinton. i respect hillary clinton. >> some call it a modest friendship. others a mutual accommodation. but whatever is going on between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, their politeness hardly goes unnoticed. >> i've never run a negative

political ad in my life. >> in fact, when sander does criticize mrs. clinton, he doesn't even mention her name. listen to what he told npr. >> if you think establishment politics and establishment economics is the answer to our problems, fine, there are good candidates out there. >> reporter: meanwhile clinton told nbc that having sanders in the race is a good thing. >> i really believe this is great for the democratic party and for this election, because we want to turn out as many people as possible. >> reporter: she even declined to go after him. >> let me talk about myself. i'll let senator sanders talk about himself. >> reporter: sanders' strategy seems to be pointing out what he has done, a subtle way of saying his opponent did something different. >> you are looking at a former member of congress who voted against the war in iraq. >> reporter: remember, mrs. clinton voted to authorize the iraq war, which cost her dearly in the 2008 election. >> any vote that might lead to

war should be hard. but i cast it with conviction. >> barack obama as senator voted against it. sanders is quietly borrowing from obama's playbook. sanders and clinton have a long history together. their relationship goes back 25 years when sanders got to the senate back in 2007, the two co-authored the green jobs act and served on various committees. they also worked together to make primary care medicine more available. but just because hillary clinton isn't criticizing sanders, a superpac supporting her is, connecting sanders with chavez all because of a heating oil deal between chavez and vermont. sanders shot back in an e-mail to reporters, calling clinton

preposterous. sanders raised a million dollars in support. this week clinton distanced herself from the pac. >> do you approve of this going after senator sanders in the superpac. we know there is communication. >> i have no knowledge of what you're saying. >> sanders poind o erers pointe be a spoiler of her campaign if he isn't nominated. >> would you be her vice president? >> would she be my vice president? we will be outspent but i think we have a good shot to win this thing. >> just five days away from the first democratic debate, this could still get ugly. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> joining us now cnn political commentator, co-chair of hillary clinton's superpac and long-time adviser of bill clinton in the '90s, also contributing editor at the atlantic, peter bineart.

the fact that clinton and sanders are this civil to one another certainly underscores how cynical people are about politics. they assume one way or another that there is a shoe that will drop and they're going after each other. >> they may. thee t they actually get along. they're colleagues. they're not best friends but they get along. politicians, just like all of us, act in their own self-interest. as you pointed out, i helped run a pro-hillary superpac. bernie sanders is not the problem. the problem is we have to connect hillary up with her accomplishments for the future. even democrats who are for bernie in the polls have a very high opinion of hillary. they're doing the smart thing for each of them, and frankly, it's pretty good for the party. as a general rule, you know i like nothing better than negative campaigns, so this is kind of killing me, but i understand why they're doing it because it's the smart move. >> so a more cynical person

might say, well, as soon as they're on the stage together, who knows how that dynamic might work out. but to paul's point, it is in their best interest not to alien ate t ate the voters of the other. >> and hillary has a problem. 10 or 15 years ago, she would have gone after sanders. but the democratic party has moved so far to the left that actually there isn't much space to attack bernie sanders for being too far to the left, because on most issues, most democratic base voters agree with him more than they agree with her. so it's not clear what her line of attack would be. >> if anything, she's been moving toward bernie sanders. >> right, she's been setting the pace and moving more towards him. the one issue they've been most able to attack him is on gun control because that's one issue they can be to the left because he was somewhat anti-gun control as the senator of vermont. >> what's the difference between hillary clinton and bernie sanders.

sanders is considered more liberal and that's not necessarily a bad thing in the democratic primary. >> i don't want to get into it unless people misread that because i do help run a pro-hillary superpac and i honestly haven't studied bernie's record. in my pac, we have no interest in attacking bernie sanders. i think peter makes a good point. i will say this in defense of bernie sanders. he's not saying anything now that i can't sell in 2016. in other words, he's not going off to the kook left. he's not calling, for example, for seal team 6 to liberate the board room of goldman sachs, nationalize the banks, nationalize the economy. so bernie is not saying anything right now that's scaring me at all in terms of hurting the democratic party. this is totally different from the republicans who are driving their party off an idealogical cliff. >> if you look at his hostility to free trade, for instance, that was the core legacy of the clinton administration. that was something hillary clinton was boasting about, helping to negotiate the tpp up

until fairly recently. he's not concerned at all about entitlements, medicare and social security and the way in which they could be a drag on the budget. if you go back and look at the history of what the clintons have stood for, there is a significant difference. yes, hillary clinton is playing it down now, but i think at some point she'll have to answer the question, what makes me different, why am i not a socialist? >> peter, how do you think if joe biden gets in the race things alter? >> it's interesting, because biden is actually much closer to hillary, and all the same problems hillary has in terms of some liberals distrusting her because she was too much in the center defending wart the war i iraq, biden was almost more central than hillary. i think sanders is a real threat to her. >> what do you think the biden effects would be? >> i really don't. peter is a terribly smart guy. he may be right about this, but i've done a lot of research on the polling and look at all the polling we have. the biden vote if he runs comes

much more out of hillary than bernie. if he runs, that's fine. you heard hillary, i have the same view. a tough primary produces a tough nominee. neither bernie nor hillary should be held to a standard where they can never criticize the other. as nascar fans say, rubbing is racing. but i like the fact that they're keeping it between the guard rails here. >> rubbing is racing. all right, paul, we'll leave it on that. >> it's also dancing, apparently, mr. madonna dancing guy. >> i have no idea what you're talking about. you will never be on this panel again. be sure to tune in next week when hillary clinton, senator sanders and the democrat candidates face each other on the debate stage tuesday night, 8:30 eastern right here on cnn. coming up, it's hard to wrap your brain around this story. an eight-year-old girl in tennessee was buried today, shot to deathly an 11-year-old boy who is now facing first-degree murder charges. it's a case just steeped in

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sto terrible tragedy in

tennessee. an eight-year-old girl shot to death by an 11-year-old over a disagreement about a puppy. >> natasha dyer cannot hold or kiss her eight-year-old daughter michaela tonight because the eight-year-old was buried earlier today. >> i can't get her back. this is not fair. >> reporter: just days ago, mabl michaela dyer was playing outside her home. they were watching football as michaela and other neighborhood kids were playing with their new puppies of t puppies. an 11-year-old boy from next door joined them. in an instant, tragedy struck. >> the little boy said he wanted to pet the puppies, and they said no and kind of laughed a little bit, you know, and

giggled. that's when he pointed a bb gun at them. he misfired or something, you know, and he threw it down in the grass, and he went and got the shotgun, and he just shot the little girl in the chest area or close to the heart. >> reporter: a shot fired from inside his home, according to investigators. parents startled by the gunfire rushed outside and found little michaela as she lay dying. >> i can't get that picture out of my head, you know, her laying there. >> reporter: first responders were unable to save michaela, the grass still stained with the third grader's blood. >> i don't want anybody to step on it right now. you know, itto show some kind o respect, you know. >> reporter: the accused shooter was immediately taken into custody. >> the 11-year-old boy has been

brought in and charged by juvenile petition for first-degree murder. >> reporter: bond has been set at $500,000. the fifth grade boy is the youngest child in custody at this facility with the most serious crime. just 11 years old, but he still may be charged as an adult. the jefferson county sheriff says the boy took the 12-gauge shotgun from an unlocked closet in his family's home. >> the 12-gauge shotgun was identified as belonging to the 11-year-old's father. >> reporter: the boy's parents have not been charged but that could change. the district attorney has not yet decided. for now this small community is reeling for both families, both struck by unbelievable tragedy. >> i feel for both families, and they all need help. >> reporter: victor blackwell, cnn, white pine, tennessee. >> a shotgun stored in an unlocked closet. it is such a terrible tragedy for that little girl's family. and now the district attorney's office is going to have to decide whether to try an

11-year-old boy as an adult. let's talk with our senior analyst jeffrey toobin. what do you think, an 11-year-old takes a gun out of an unlocked closet? >> you ask, why did the parents leave a shotgun where a kid could get at it. i don't see the parents have any criminal responsibility, and the child is certainly going to be prosecuted. we know he's not eligible for the death penalty even though they charged him with first-degree murder, because the supreme court has said no one under 18 -- no offender under 18 can get the death penalty, but he could still go to prison for a very long time. >> so if he's tried as an adult in terms of -- and he got -- what kind of sentence would an 11-year-old get, whether he's tried as an adult or as a juvenile? >> that would very much be up to

the -- up to the judge in tennessee, because if he's tried as an adult, he could get life without parole. i think it's unlikely given the circumstances. the supreme court has suggested that that also is problematic. he could get 10 years, he could get 20 years. this is a very serious -- first-degree murder is as serious as it gets, and this is a horrific crime. 11 years old is incredibly young to be prosecuted as an adult, but under tennessee law, it's up to the judge to decide whether to move the jurisdiction to juvenile or adult court, and so it could happen. >> but if he is tried as a juvenile, then what happens when he turns 18? >> then he would most likely get out. i mean, that's my understanding. there are a lot of moving parts in these laws, but if he's tried as a juvenile, the usual rule in

tennessee like in most states is they can't hold them until past 18. there could be civil -- a civil lawsuit against the parents, but as you can see from where they live, how much money could there be there? >> it's just awful. >> the parents of this child are out of luck in many, many ways. >> it's just awful. jeff, thank you very much. that does it for us. our coverage continues with "cnn newsroom" next. ing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. by day, they must stay warm. challenges to the feet. but by night, beautiful, smoother and ready

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>> this is "cnn newsroom" live from los angeles. >> chaos in the u.s. congress. the man expected to be the next speaker of the house abruptly quits leaving his republican party in turmoil. >> plus, claims of russian missiles aimed at syria may have hit the wrong country. >> and the american hero who stopped a terrorist on a paris-bound train attacked and repeatedly stabbed at home. >> hello, welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm isha sesay. >> and i'm john vause.