taiwan is sixth and the united states ranked nineth overall. mo thanks to all you for being part of my program. see you next week. good morning. reliable sources begin this morning with breaking news out of iran where a court has finally issued a verdict in a possible sentence in the espionage jail of jailed journalist jason rezaian. the serkt averdict and the sente not yet known. we have heard from the washington post. they are trying to gather information the same time we are. we'll check in with the editor there in a moment. he's been imprisoned for 447

days. that's longer than any american journalist has been held in iran in the past. it's also longer than the duration of iranian hostage crisis in 1979 and 1981. he was charged with espionage. those are charges his family and colleagues at the washington post said are ridiculous, baseless, absurd. there's been no evidence for those charges. this case has become a symbol of the dangers that journalist face all around the world. while we wait for detail, we can can tell you the ruling is not final and may be appealed in the next 20 days. let's go live to tehran. he's one of few wernl journalist operating in that country. what can you tell us about the lack of information around this ruling. the fact we do not have a verdict. is that right? >> well it almost seems to be a

strategy. a strategy by the iranian judicial authorities who since july very persistently have been given conflicting information over the verdict. first they say there's a final court case and that means according to iranian law that must be a verdict within a week. that was july. then they said we haven't heard of any court case. we can't get hold of judge. now they're saying there is a final verdict but no one knows what it is. >> there's this cloak of secrecy that's been surrounding this trial ever since it started in may. trial ended in august. now it's october. we still don't know what the ruling was. you were able to reach his defense lawyer. what did she tell you today? >> she said the same thing as we are concluding now.

she had not received the verdict. she also told me that jason's mother, mary had also not received the verdict. when we asked if jason had seen the verdict, she said no because jason is not in contact with the outside world. this is a mystery verdict and mystery court case. jason rezaian has been the victim of this over the past year. it is time many people here say for the iranian authorities to come clean what he has allegedly done. >> do you have any concerns for yourself as you work in tehran every day? >> i'm one of the few western remaining journalists here. i'm a dutch national which is

probably obvious from my accent. i experience issues like many other journalists experience here. the situation for journalists in other country s much worse. a lot of journalists have issues working here. i've had my permit over the past ten years. it's been taken away on some occasions. i have been, i find, able to bring out reports about iran has journalists will do in other countries. it's not always easy, but it has been possible. >> thank you so much for the update from tehran. stay in touch.

let's go to the washington post. they've nod seen any confirmation other details. we're monitoring the situation closely. we continue to call for all charges against jason to be dropped and for him to be immediately released. the post has called this entire situation a travesty and they're calling the ruling vague and puzzling. >> this remains a mystery to us. what we're seeing unfolding is sham. for iran to say there's been a verdict but it's not final simply suggest this is not matter for the courts. it's matter that's being decided in the political atmospheres in iran. >> people have suggested he's a geo political pawn between iran

and u.s. and other world powers. have you been able to speak with any family members? >> no we have not. >> what has been the situation before. have you received enough support from the state department? >> we've been pleased with the efforts the u.s. government has made to raise attention to jason's case throughout. on the other hand, we do believe there's much, much more the u.s. government could be doing at the very highest levels to work with jason's family to bring jason home. >> what's an example of that that you'd like to see the government doing today? >> i think it's important that this case remain very much in the public sphere. we believe it's important he's been held long. >> we're talking about the u.s.

government. what about the iranian government? you've been trying for months to have an editor come to tehran to see jason but all requests have been denied. >> i visited him in june of 2014 about six weeks before he was detained. i've tried ever since to persuade the government to grant me a visa that will allow me to go raise his case at the highest levels and provide support to his family and those requests have been ignored. >> what's the plan? >> we'll continue to try to get what information we can. what we're seeing is thomas suggested earlier maybe some gamesmanship on the part of the iranian authorities. there doesn't seem to be any indication they're going to tell jason or jason's lawyer what this supposed verdict is.

for them to say there's a verdict but that it's not final does suggest that ultimately this is matter for the government to decide. we heard president ruhani say he have willing to work toward the release of jason and two other americans if the u.s. government also took some steps. this suggests once again that jason is not really a prisoner. he's a bargaining ship being used to extract some concessions from the u.s. >> important context there. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> let's go to london next. former news reporter was held prisoner in iran in the very same prison in 2009. you may know his name because john stewart turned his story into the movie rose water. you spent four months in this prison. jason now there for 447 days. what can you tell us about the experience of being held not knowing how long you're going to

be held for? what can you tell us about what jason might be going through now? >> unfortunately, the prisoner has a much easier time inside prison than the family of the prisoner. the prisoner know what is is happening to him or her. i feel for jason's mother, sister, wife and his friends and colleagues around the world. they don't know what is going on. >> when you say in the dark, do you mean physically? >> well, no. the prisoner might be in the dark but because they know, jason's mother does not know what is the reason for jason being in jail for 446 days.

there are some negotiations going on. negotiations that we do not know and jason's family do not know. jason himself doesn't know about them. because of the structure of the iranian government, it will be very difficult for them to come to a conclusion. >> bordain interviewed him before this detention happened. that's an example of how prominent a reporter is. we'll stay on top of this story throughout the hour and

throughout the day on c thrnn. we join journalist around the world who are saying with one voice, free jason. we have a will the more still to come including my interview. dean mckay, the executive editor of the new york times. his first appearance on cnn. up next, a sunday morning exclusive. donald trump's right hand man standing by. is mr. trump the new republican king maker. it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support.

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call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. welcome back. there was true chaos in washington this week. guess who claims to be behind kevin mccarthy's stunning decision to quit the race. wait for it. >> i want to say that kevin mccarthy is out. you know that, right? they're giving me a lot of credit for that because i said you really need somebody very, very tough and very smart. smart goes with tough not just tough. >> whether or not trump deserves credit or blame he's a factor in republican politics for the foreseeable future.

he said i'm not going anywhere. is it a promise or a threat. michael, when we last spoke on this program it was july. some pundits thought trump was a flash in the pan. i wonder if you've seen a big change between the summer and the fall? the way trump is treated by the press. >> i saw somewhere in august you had on two individuals, to pundits that you brought back to the show to reevaluate and to cast some comments regarding their predictions regarding many trump. both of them turned around and said the right things which is donald trump is here to stay. not only is he here to stay he's actually going to take the white house. >> you are 100% confident he's going all the way? >> he's going all the way. >> you see ben carson as a clear number two. >> this will now answer your question regarding the media,

totally dishonest in terms of the way they speak. it was packed place but it wasn't filled to capacity. they were overcapacity by more than 3,000 people. >> she's our reporter. she's doing her job by describing the scene. >> it's dishonest reporting. >> a lot of people think the press has built him up. >> i would say mr. trump is building up the media. when you start seeing 24, 30 million people watching debates that were unwatchable and who knows, let's see what happens with the democratic debate. you can ask a great question regarding the polls. new hampshire, public policy. the morning consult and reuters.

donald trump is anywhere between 32 and 27% with ben carson 12 to 17. mr. trump has gone up in every single poll. they say he's not going the go higher. >> ben carson went up from 10 to 12, 13 to 17. mr. trump is commanding a sizable lead by more than double of everybody else. it says mr. trump's ability to command voter and news media attention similarly by being his out landish bombastic self is

starting to wane. is this your experience that interest is starting to wane? >> not in the slightest. he has enough press requests for the next five years for multiple times during a day. absolutely inaccurate. he represents exactly what america is looking for, leadership, ability and nothing shy of being what an american president should be. >> let me you a couple of questions about media coverage. you said fox news was trying to get donald trump out of the race. there's been feuding going back and forth. right now it seems like they've made peace. >> there's no problem now with fox. >> give us insight on how you got to that point.

>> i wasn't involved in that so i don't know. i know there's no issue any longer between fox and mr. trump. >> there were reports that the head of fox news would meet with mr. trump. do you know if it happened? >> i'm not going to discuss mr. trump's private affairs with the head of fox. >> right now no feud. would he ever go on meagan kelly show? >> i don't know. it's something she should ask him. >> i'm sure she's been asking. >> it's something the campaign manager would be better suited to respond. can i touch on one other additional quality mr. trump has that no other candidates have. he's a doer. the guy has been able and successful if doing so much. he does it with honesty. that's something that so many of these other candidates lack. they're just not honest. we as voters, we see right through this.

>> you went on because you were trying to stop him from publishing a story about trump and one of his ex-wives. do comments like that impact the tone of coverage. do you regret the way you talked to that reporter? >> do i regret it? i regret the fact it got out there. it's not what our conversation was about. i received an e-mail from him. it was a disgusting e-mail that accused mr. trump of a disgusting act with his ex-wife. i was thinking about the children that would see the reports. i care about him as a person. >> have you ever talked to that reporter again? >> never. >> apologized? >> never. i have no reason to apologize. >> that's a very trump-esque quality. >> maybe that's why i work with

him. he sent an e-mail to a young lady stating i intend on writing a story about mr. trump and this horrific act with his wife in 1999. care to comment. he got my comment. as far as i'm concerned, i have no use for the likes of him. i don't consider him to be a journalist. >> do you think trump is running anti-press campaign and at the same time he's using the media as interviews. is it fair? >> i don't think it's fair at all. >> he likes to call us dishonest. he likes to take the press. >> when you are dishonest, you should be called exactly lly w you are. he's honest. he says what he believes and he believes what he says. he doesn't need a pollster to tell him he needs to answer it this way. he's going to call it the way he sees it and not the way anybody else sees it. that's why he's leading the

polls. >> is the univision lawsuit still going on? >> it's still pending. >> about the miss usa pageant. sni status update? >> you'll be seeing it in the papers in a short period. >> okay. good to see you. >> thank you. >> we talked a bit on ben carson here. we'll spend more time later this hour talking about his cozy relationship with fox news owner. up next, a news junkies dream. you got to hear why he says the paper must transform itself to survive and thrive.

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welcome back. more now on the breaking news from iran with reports of a verdict and a sentence in the long, ongoing trial of jason. he's been jailed for more than 14 months. we're waiting for specifics of the verdict. we're told jason's family is working on statement and we'll bring it to you when we have it. we spoke with the tehran bureau chief. now the executive editor for the times responsible for the times reporters in trouble spots around the world. welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> when you hear about a possible verdict in the case, what does it make you think about because you have reporters like thomas in hot spots around the world. >> part of me is hoping it's good news. but the post is right, the whole thing is a sham. if the governments want to be kored fairly and really want to participate in the broad conversation among nations, they have to let journalists do their

job. jason was doing his job. it's an outrage we're at this point. i'm going the hold out hope that the news is good. >> same here. talk about developments at the times. this was a really interesting week. you released an 11-page strategy m.o. that said the times must be transformed. tell us what the plan is. a lot of people wonder how any print newspaper can survive in this age. >> we'll still be a print newspaper for a long time to come. >> how much for the print side? >> print is twice that. >> that's the problem in a nutshell. 400 million for the web. a lot more for the print.

>> it's hard to say it's a problem when you still have the money coming in. i would say two things. the new york times is the best news gathering operation in the world. i think what we're finally seeing what we really understand is there's a huge opportunity for us in the digital life of the world. we need to get a bigger audience internationally. we need to increase our audience domestically. we can do that. once the business side in news room set together we realize we were in agreement on most of the important stuff and we could deal with the stuff that we weren't in agreement on. the biggest thing we're in agreement on and this is my fifth newspaper, this is no small matter. we all agree that the future of the new york times is going to depend on its journalism and depend on its commitment to its mission that's not only good for the journalists and the journalism of the new york times but the whole business side realizes that's good for future of it as a business too. >> my take away is subscribers

are the future. yes, you're going o to have ads but it's about making sure more people are willing to pay. >> that's right. >> people pay for cnn and other news channels for their cable bill. with the times you have to pay directly. go online and type in your credit card. how will you make people pay for the first web paper? >> we have to make it more available. up with of the things we're focusing on a lot is international. we have a million subscribers. that's a big deal. about 12 to 13% of them are international subscribers. we really haven't pursued them. we give them great journalism. we don't go out and figure out what more they want. we don't go out and figure out we have not in the past and we're going to do that. when i say remake the new york times, it's natural that the new york times would go hard after building an international audience. >> right. >> i just got back from london and one editor said all the

british papers and all the british news organizations have been waiting for the moment the new york times says we're coming and we're going to build an a audience and we are. >> you're saying that now? >> i'm saying that now. we worked together. i know how important politics is to the paper. here's the question. when i told people on twitter you were coming on, a lot of of t the questions were about hill clinton coverage. how you respond to people who say you're too aggressive on her? >> one thing that fueled it is we made a mistake on the story. we corrected. we screwed it up. we also broke the story today about dissension within benghazi

committee. i think the clinton people would say is fair and did not point a finger at her. if you add that up and add up the daily coverage, we're not unfair. >> we have to look at the full picture. >> you have to look t the fact when we screw up, we own up to it. >> i wonder if in an age of the web being the top priority that maybe more mistakes are getting through and more errors. five correction ons a profile donald trump's wife. do innocents like this undercut your claim to be the best news source in the world? >> sure they do. any time we make a mistake. i'm not convinced more mistakes get made. i think something healthy is going on.

25 years ago they couldn't do that. they had no ability to do that. leaders come to us and say i think you're off on this one. >> there's not a sense y'all move to fast? >> i don't think so. when you think about the amount of coverage that a news organization like the new york times offers every day and count the number of corrections and the fact that we, unlike most news organizations, look for corrections and correct them, i don't think so. >> when you think how long print might be around for, do you have a guess? >> i don't. so far the new york times print edition is still so vibrant that it makes money every day, seven

day a week. it still has a huge audience. here is what i are do. i won't bet or guess but i hope it lasts a long time. >> can the new york times without a print product have 1200 journalists. can it sustain that size? >> tomorrow, probably not. i don't think we're facing that right now. i don't think we're facing there's no evidence that print will go away any time soon. by the way, one reason we want to double our big announcement is our goal is to double digit revenue. it's to double digital revenue to sustain a big news room that can continue the mission that we have. >> in the short term there's a lot of concern about buy offs or layoffs this year. >> there's no plan or discussion about buy offs or lay offs. i should say this because i've been an editor or journalist

long enough. any journalist that says he won't have to cut but have to cut in the future is kidding you. >> it's the best of times and also the most uncertain of times. >> right. >> it's dizzying in some ways. >> it is. for journalism and you have to separate journalisms from the institutions like the new york times. for journalism this is the best of times. we can do video. we can take a lookt the campaign finance story that we published yesterday and today and look at how it was presented online. we koincouldn't do that ten yea ago. that's good for the country. it's good for journalism. it makes the business life, our business life uncertain, for the country and for journalism, all this stuff is great. >> this is more optimistic

conversation i expected to have. i'll e-mail you when i spot a mistake. >> okay. >> good to see you. >> thanks for being here. up next, bernie sanders all but ignores by the network news. is that going to change on tuesday night? i'll ask him, what's the toughest part of moderating that we don't see on tv. his surprising answer is next. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough, but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is f adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission.

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we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. welcome back. i don't know about you but i think there's one democratic presidential candidate who has been getting short from the press. his name is bernie sanders. take a look at this. two minutes, that's the total amount of coverage that the big three evening news programs have devoted to sanders since labor day. compare that to 26 minutes for hillary clinton and six minutes for joe biden, a candidate that's not in the race, at least not yet. the others in the race, zero minutes of coverage. all that would change in two

days. let's put up the clock. on tuesday the democrats take the stage in the democratic presidential debate. here is a live look at the debate hall in las vegas. preparations under way. tuesday will be the first time the candidates will go head to head. for many americans it's the first time they are seeing sanders and especially the other three. what kind of debate will this be. i caught up with moderator anderson cooper right before he left for vegas. thank you for previewing the debate with us. >> sure. >> we've seen two gop debates so far. the fox debate was all about interview questions, probing questions of the candidates. cnn's debate was more about face off questions. getting the candidates to talk with each other. what's your style on tuesday? >> i don't think this is a debate where you'll have candidates attack each other. we've not seen this on the campaign trail. going to the republican debates you knew there were a number of cans looking to do that. some lower candidates wanted to punch up and try to make name

for themselves. that's not the case so far we've seen on the democratic side. i think it's a mistake to anticipate there's a lot of, bernie sanders is clear he's not going to go after hillary clinton by name. i see no reason that hillary clinton will do that. >> i don't think so. i'm always uncomfortable with the notion of setting people up in order to promote some sort of face off. i think these are all serious people. this is a serious debate. they want to talk about the issues. i want to give them an opportunity to do that. >> what does it mean to have this be first of the democratic debates? it's october. it's pretty late in the cycle compared to past recent presidential cycles. >> i've done debates over the past 11 or so years. i think this is my sixth one. >> you've lost count. >> i'm not just a very good

counter. i think it's exciting that so many people are interested and watching. to have the first democratic debate where you've never seen the candidates really all on a stage together, i think the dynamics will be interesting. the stakes are high. they all have a lot to prove. i think it's going to be fascinating to see bernie sanders next to hillary clinton and how that dynamic work and some of the candidates people don't know that much about. >> it's bernie sanders most prominent stage ever. >> we've seen him in front of big audiences. huge rallies for him. in terms of this size of debate, he's not been on this kind of stage. he's an accomplished debater in that sense. all the indications from his campaign is not doing mock debates. he's just going to be himself. i think that's been working for him so far. >> you mentioned how popular the

debates are so far. having 23 to 25 million viewers. >> i haven't heard that. >> a record for cable news. a lot of that, maybe most of that was donald trump. i wonder if there's a donald trump halo even for the democrats this fall. >> we'll see. in the world of television there's so many moving parts and so many things that you can influence that you can worry about. i try not to worry about the things i can't influence. >> there's baseball games up against this debate on tuesday. all those factors that influence the ultimate ratings for these events. >> it is interesting that trump has gotten people -- never would have watched debates before. >> at this stage to have that many people watching a debate with that many candidates it's amazing. i think it's good for the process. >> what makes for an effective debate, a successful debate in your mind given you've been on the stages many times? >> i think it depends.

i think for my vantage point if the next day the story is about the moderators, that's not something i aim for. this is about the candidates. >> we're hearing in your studios it was not much of an audience. what kind of difference does it make to have a studio audience? >> i like the audience. there's an electricity to it. there's an energy to it. when you're on the stage with naua number of candidates with one who has a real possibility of becoming president of the united states. you don't need extra energy. >> even with only five candidates as poopposed to 11. >> it's electric. these are candidates who are intense people. this is an important night for them. they want to be on their a game. they have staffs of people who are incredibly stressed out like pacing behind the scenes. they want you to call on them.

what you don't see on camera is poker signal, the poker tells the candidates are trying to get you to call on them. glaring at you with their eyes. i've had candidates, spouses come up to me yelling during debates that their loved one is not getting enough time. that happens pretty routinely. >> i wonder if that will be an issue with lincoln chaffney. >> if you look at the poll numbers it's important to give it to everybody across the board. it's interesting to learn about the candidates who the american public doesn't know much about. >> last question for you. do you have a debate day ritual of sorts? >> i do not. i like to be overprepared. i like to be doing more research than less.

i'm reading up until the last moment. i was in greece, turkey -- greece, germany and austria for 60 minutes. shooting that during the day and at night reading a foot tall packet of research i had on every interview the candidates had given. i like to know, i like to be armed with information. no matter what happens, whatever the direction it goes in, the idea is that you'll be able to respond and think op your feet. >> the debate podium order came out this morning. hillary clinton in the middle because she has the highest poll numbers. coming up, ben carson dishing it out, taking on the media and also really reacting strong terms. is the honeymoon over for the number two candidate? we'll be right back.

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ben carson is emerging as the gop candidate, more than anybody else, is running against the media this election cycle. but he has a big fan, this man, rupert murdoch, the head of fox. who tweeted that ben and candy carson are terrific. what about a real black president who can properly address this racial divide? and much else? sort of apologized the next day. and his spokeswoman told me, we don't comment on his tweets. joining me a correspondent who covers race, diversity, when you hear the words "real black president" and you know the context of seven or eight years to delegitimize this president, what do you think? >> it was that issue of the real black president, right? who is the arbiter of blackness. what do we define as real blackness. a couple things to unpack here.

we need to look at rupert's tweets. and he says carson is someone who came from the detroit ghetto, there's a sort of reliance on the narrative that conservatives feel comfortable with, which this self-made person that pulled themself up by their boot straps and didn't have to address the structural inequities when we talk about race. obama's identity has been called into question. he's born in hawaii, he's biracial. is he too black, black enough? that's what's really getting unpacked here, is who defines blackness and why do we only have one narrative that's very myopic. >> we know that murdoch is championing carson. then later this gq article comes out. we can show it on screen but blur one of the words because it's attacking ben carson. this is a pretty shocki ining headline, but it was getting at

something deeper. >> is ben carson going to really resonate with an african-american base or the obama, quote, unquote, coalition? will we see that level of support for this type of candidate? >> these issues of race are so fraught in this campaign. when you see 140-character tweet is really no way to get to the detail and the context. >> rupert runs his own twitter account, which is pretty amazing. he doesn't have someone else doing it for him. but what we see is a conversation or comment that might have happened behind closed doors. it might have happened at dinner and there wouldn't have been an apology. but when you do it like this it gets a reaction. >> and he did sort of apology. coming up next, why the first cnn debate -- democratic debate will make history on tuesday. any way you want it... sweet, buttery, and creamy. like new pineapple habanero coconut shrimp bites... ...and teriyaki grilled shrimp. and yeah, it's endless, but it won't last forever.

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tuesday's democratic debate will make history because it's going to be the first news event streamed live in virtual reality. we'll tell you what that means next week. we're out of time for now. "state of the union" starts right now. ♪ benghazi committee politics. >> this has become a partisan investigation. i do not know the real for the hyperfocus on hillary clinton. >> a former republican investigator speaks out against the committee in an exclusive tv interview. plus, a gop house divided. >> i think i shocked some of you, huh? >> majority leader kevin mccarthy drops his bid for speaker leaving house republicans in disarray and all eyes on paul ryan.