to be many 14th place with a debt to gdp with roughly one of five percent. still not a prize by any stretch of the imagination. i'll see you next week. good morning. it's time for reliable sources. our weekly look at the story behind the story. it's the end of an era. is no news good news for playboy? we'll get a tape from larry flint. from adult magazines to children's books. a very personal interview with r.l.stine. one of the best selling athorouauthors of all time. carl bernstein is standing by to talk about tuesday's debate. let's start with the next debate. the gop matchup coming to cnbc

later this month. did the network and the republican party get strong armed by two of its leading k d candidates. it says neither mr. trump or dr. carson will participate in the debate if it's longer than 120 minutes and does not include opening and closing statements. in other words, nice little debate you have here. be a shame if something happened to it. i'll talk about how this all went down. the communications director and chief strategist for the republican national economy. good to see you this morning. let's get into the debate. there's a debate playing out on sunday morning tv. amazingly it's over the topic of 9/11. here is what we heard this morning from jeb bush and donald trump on the sunday morning shows. >> does anybody blame my brother

for the attacks on 9/11? if they do they are totally marginalizing our society. >> i'm not blaming him but i don't want jeb bush to say my brother kept us safe. >> 14 years after that terrible day, did you ever imagine the rnc would be having this intra party debates about the attacks? >> we want them talking positively about where to take this country and to stop littuate gaiting the past and each other and focus on what they will do as each other. >> you're agreeing this is not what the rnc had in mind? >> i would say this is one little spat. i think all of them, there's been several. on the republican side we believe it's much more helpful, much more beneficial in the long

run if we're focusing on why we're better and why our candidates are better? >> does the party have any idea o about whether former president george w bush should be given any blame for the people that died that day. >> do you mean after 9/11? do you mean starting on 9/12? >> absolutely. when this country was attacked george bush did everything he could to keep the safe forward. i don't believe he's blaming him for 9/11. i think we can all agree that president bush, regardless if you're republican or democrat did everything to protect this country before 9/11 and definitely after. >> we talked about some of the worst we've seen within the gop. yuled for no more na-- you call

more name calling. do you think that's been igno ignored? >> it hasn't been completely followed. doesn't mean we're not going to keep pushing for it. >> you're reiterating that this morning? >> i think when chamber reiterates that. they're going to run their own campaign but our job is to do what's best for the party and try to make sure we put ourselves in the best possible position to win next november. >> that bring us us to the next debate. take us behind the scenes a bit. these private negotiations about how long a debate will be and the format spill out into public view this week. what was the ultimate conclusion about the debate? >> every single one of these debates takes about five years off my life in terms of the negotiations. there's a back and forth with the rnc advocates for things that the candidates wants and

tries to work with the network to help collectively take care of that. that was the case this time. it's back an forth. cnbc has been committed to having great debate. they had some tweets they wanted to implement. the candidates felt it was important to have an opportunity both at the beginning and end of the debate. we worked with cnbc back and forth. we came to an agreement. with respect to the timing when cnbc announced this debate in september 28th, they said very explicitly it would be a two-hour debate. what the debate about that was is there was a question whether that two hours would include commercial breaks. several of the candidates felt like the last debate had gone on too long and so they wanted to ensure it was two hours of total time. we were able to work with cnbc

to get that as well. i feel good about how the rnc handled this on behalf of the candidates and we'll have a great debate on cnbc. >> the last debate was three hours long. almost all the viewers stayed. isn't it good for viewers, voters to have longer debates, not shorter? >> i think it's a formula. it's not just a question of timing. it's how many candidates are on stage. in the case of the reagan library it's what people don't see necessarily off camera is the room was rather hot. the candidates -- it was late in the evening. it was a west coast debate. it's not just, you can't say this is the time that makes sense. each debate has to get negotiated in itself. >> it's a balancing act between interest of all the people involved. last question. i heard the candidates aren't

polling as well. can you tell us why national polls are determining factor for who is on the main stage for the next debate? >> that's a really good question. there's a couple reasons. number one there's very few consistent early state polls. when you look at iowa, there's only three that's been done and not consistent so you've got maybe two in new hampshire, one in south carolina. one of the things that's interesting about a lot of these candidates who want early state polling is they don't want early state polling. they want specific early state polling. someone might say i want iowa included or only iowa and new hampshire or i want just south carolina or south carolina and new hampshire. if you want just early state polling which would be the four states iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and nevada. that yields a different scenario to where we are now. when the candidates talk about including state polling they're not necessarily saying we want all early state polling. they are only saying they want

early state polling that benefits them. >> what a fascinating job you have to see how as we everything this campaign is not following the rules. new rules are being created by trump and the others and in this case private negotiations going public. thanks for being here this morning. >> you bet. >> let me bring in armstrong williams now. heist carson's business manager. thanks for being here. >> good morning. >> i want who hear how this debate situation went down. it seemed as if the rnc caved from the demands from outsider candidates to have a shorter debate. is that how you perceive what happened? >> life is about compromise. it's about taking everybody interests into consideration. if the network, the rnc and ultimately the candidates.

what many people don't realize is that the candidates are not really involved in the negotiations and rarely are their staff. we find out about it maybe a week or two before the debate and they send us the rules and guidelines. it was quite clear before that the three-hour debate was very exhausting, very tiring. it appears as if the beginning of the debate especially with jake tapper and cnn it was an attack. it was almost a comedy. we don't feel it was okay. you say wait a minute, obviously, somebody is doing a very good job of protecting her brand and the rnc should do the same. it starts with the length of the debate and dr. carson and many of the candidates we feel it's important they have opening and

closing statements. we exprezzed concerns to the rnc and cnbc. it all worked out. >> nbc universal sources say they are trying to charge $250,000 for these ad packages around the debate. it's an extraordinary number for an advertisement on a cable news channel. we're expecting extraordinary ratings for this next debate. do you and dr. carson have any discomfort with the idea networks like cnn and cnbc and fox news profit off these debates and charge so much for adds? >> remember, i'm his business manager. we don't have a problem with capitalism. people make money as long as legal, moral and ethical. we don't pliend. it costs a lot of money. it's a lot of sacrifice and it's the american way to make money. if they make a profit all well and good. in the process of doing that make sure the candidates are not exploited ar or exhausted in the

process. >> my source says they are seeing strong demand from advertisers taking advantage of the big audience of this next debate and that's because of these outsider candidates like your candidate and donald trump. thank you so much for being here this morning in. >> thank you for having me. up next, a reality check about the democratic debate with carl bernstein. later, you look at the headlines and they say who won or lost but are they worth the pixels they are written on. stay with us. it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network,

and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next. actually, knowing the kind of srisk that you're comfortable sure thiwith,ight? i'd steer clear. really? really. straight talk. now based on your strategy i do have some other thoughts... multiplied by 13,000 financial advisors it's a big deal. and it's how edward jones makes sense of investing.

to help those in need. here to volunteer when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirits but there's a growing pain in his lower back. as lines grow longer, his pain continues to linger. but after a long day of helping others, he gets some helpful advice. just two aleve have the strength to keep back pain away all day. today, jason chose aleve. aleve, all day strong. and try aleve pm, now with an easy open cap. is it keeps the food out. for me before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. super poligrip is part of my life now.

so i need to collect your phones so you can't post pictures. [screams] okay, how does it feel to not be connected? my chest hurts. well let me give you your phones back. [laughing] let me show you a better way to keep connected. the 2016 chevy cruze offers built in 4g lte wi-fi ® that connects up to seven devices. so this thing puts out its own signal? yes. what? this is next level chevy. who says families have to share data now get four lines. each with up to 10 gigs of 4g lte data. just $30 bucks a line it's 10 gigs for all only from t-mobile the health care law gives us powerful tools to fight it. on medicare fraud. to investigate it. prosecute it. and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers are teaching seniors across the country to stop, spot and report fraud.

you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. welcome back. political reporters are waiting, waiting for joe biden, tracking his every move and begging sources for intel about whether he will run for president. the sentiment is from the talking heads. it was the highest rated

democratic debate ever. that broke cnn's prior record of 8.3 million set back in 2008 and surpassed the overall record for the dems. they had 15.3 million viewers. those numbers were jaw dropping. the gop debates had 25 million viewers thanks to donald trump. it says the halo effect is helping the democrats too getting more people to pay attention to the election. if the ratings were sky high and the talking heads all say clinton won, this is great news for her, right? my next guest is not so sure. carl bernstein, the author of many books, including the clinton biography, a woman in charge. you feel it's masking an underlying problem for her. >> i think it was her greatest moment for her up until the debate. i don't think that a reset

button was successfully hit. we're still back to these basic questions about her truthfulnestruthfulness about the server, the foundation, the fbi investigation. it's all one story that's not going to go away. was it her best moment? absolutely. >> you say it's all one story. often times in the press in these days of headlines things come, things go. you're saying there's all one big story that everything ties into. >> there's the question of what we saw hillary at her best. her competence, her readiness to be president. her kplancommand of the issues e get back to her difficult relationship to the truth. easy questions about what happened and should have been able to be recited about what really happened. this doesn't go away. it's a huge issue for the republicans to hit on and it's one of the reasons joe biden is considering running because he

understanding where she's weak. >> what are you hearing about biden in the process. then again we've been talk about this since june. >> i talked to people talking to him over the weekend. it's family decision. a family, his family has to be all behind it according to these people and they are meeting again. i think they are very close to a decision. he wants to run. the question is can the whole family be up for this and enthusiastic the way they need to be after the tragedy that's occurred. they also see this opportunity did not exist until we've seen hillary cbeing weakened by whats happened. we have the benghazi this week and she's going to murder them. it has been a witch hunt.

it's great opportunity for her. this story goes on. distrust, big factor. >> we remember this image we're seeing now in a prior testimony about benghazi. this week coming up we'll see her again. i suspect it's going to be live to wall on cable news. do you think that the press has paid enough attention to these looming issues around clinton's candidacy. what happened too much attention. i think this committee is an ill legitimate force and she's correct about that. sgr whe >> where are 15 million viewers coming from? >> from fox. they are there to watch hillary clinton stumble and fall and to attack her. this was not just democratic friends watching this debate. it has a big republican audience. >> the ratings reminded me that

clinton is a giant celebrity and sometimes journalist may not fully appreciate that. they have been covering her for decades. they might be tierped of writing about her. to folks in the country, she's an a list celebrity. now donald trump is running for the nomination. you have the ultimate celebrity clash. it's a cultural moment and we need to be looking at it in terms of celebrity culture reality tv. it's hard to stay focused on real issues. >> last question is about biden. it was suggested he's already running. he's been running for months and he wants us to think he's not decided yet. what do you make ooft possibility to appear he's not running when he is running? >> i think he wants to run. i think he's not reached that final decision but i think we'll see it in a matter of hours or a

few days. >> it's great story for the press. the press nothings more than a will he or want he story. >> got to deep all these elements together, server, biden, trust, trump, all one story. we got to keep these connections. it's very important. >> love that point. thank you for sharing that. i know you've within following the story of the jailed journalist. we covered it last week and i have nothing new to tell you this morning. there was a verdicts in the case. the authorities in iran say he's been found guilty but haven't said what his sentence is. post says an appeal is under way. while he remains in limbo, one of his colleagues started this sketch as a protest to his unjust imprisonment. he's keeping track of every day jason remains behind bars. we'll try to keep you up to date

on that story. we're changing gears and talking about a story that says a lot about print is waning while the internet wins. hustler magazine publisher after the break. ♪ [music] defiance is in our bones. new citracal pearls. delicious berries and cream. soft, chewable, calcium plus vitamin d. only from citracal. [ screaming ] rate suckers! [ bell dinging ] your car insurance goes up because of their bad driving. people try all sorts of ways to get rid of them. [ driver panting ] if you're sick of paying more than your fair share... [ screams ] get snapshot from progressive, and see just how much your good driving could save you.

big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

we figure you probably don't have time to wait on hold. that's why at xfinity we're hard at work, building new apps like this one that lets you choose a time for us to call you. so instead of waiting on hold, we'll call you when things are just as wonderful... [phone ringing] but a little less crazy. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. i think people stopped by shocked by playboy magazine's photos a long time ago. the magazine shocked the world by announcing it's covering up, eliminating fully nude photos in

a couple months. sex still sells but not nearly as much as it used to. it's dropped from 5.6 million to under 800,000 today. we all know where people are seeing the pictures. it's online instead of print. the magazine needs to broaden its appeal to readers and advertisers. it's removed nude photos from its website. >> we haven't made a profit on the magazine for more than a decade. when i came in six years ago it was losing over a million dollars an issue. it still loses money. we have over 750,000 readers every single month. we have a loyal reader base that still prefers print. having said that our digital audience is much larger and the future of the company will be more digital. >> the obvious question to ask is do people really read playboy

for the articles? joining me to talk about that is the founder of hustler magazine. larry, you're no stranger to controversial public decisions. do you believe that's smart decision for this magazine? >> i knew he was getting old but i didn't know he lost his mind. >> lost his mind, you say. how? >> how you take the most important feature in your magazine and drop it? what it became notorious for. they need to change their financial blueprint. they have always approached playboy from an artistic point of view because hefner's background is an artist.

when you lose revenue, you got to cut your fixed cost. to give you an example, my editorial staff is seven. his is probably between 40 and 50. i make a profit yet he's losing money every month. that's the story right there. no one can ever deny this guy the fact he paved the way for the sexual revolution but he will not be remembered for his business savvy. >> you think this is the right thing for playboy? >> i think it's a move for playboy. i think there's a couple of things going on. you have the explosion of available images of naked women. if you look at cable tv, part of that is driven by sex and explicit sex scenes.

dropping nude pictures from playboy might shrink american audiences but open up new audiences in countries where playboy can't circulate in countries with fully nude images. the brand is huge in china but the magazine can't with sold there. you might be success fiacrifici domestic audiences in favor of an international audience that can't be print subscribers. >> most of your revenues come from television and not print magazine? >> i'm the largest internet content provider for adult content, broadcast television in the world. that's what our main focus is. we place little emphasis on publi publishing. i'll take a little bit of issue

about what playboy might gain they say they want to do great lifestyle pieces and more good investigative journalism. you're lucky if you can break two stories. you really lucky. >> you're saying the market for this kind of article this kind of market is oversaturated. are you still offering to pay hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars for information about sex scandals? >> we sill have our bounty out

there. >> a bounty. >> yeah, we like to keep politicians honest. there's a scandal. if money is involved, sex involved, it's sex with republicans and money with democrats. >> i'm curious about the idea that playboy has a complicated relationship with feminism. this is something you write about on washington post. do you feel this decision to remove fully nude pictures from the magazine moves the needle at all on this topic? >> i don't know i would say it changes playboy's legacy in terms of sexualization of women. that's still a selling point for the magazine. ploy boy has its culture products and campaign. hugh hefner was of legalized

abortion. someone who wants to have sex, maybe sex with a lot of different women without necessarily becoming the father or dealing with all the consequences but playboy and hugh hefner have supported goals of feminist policy. i think it's a complicated relationship for feminists to work with that magazine. >> thank you so much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, plenty of laughs last night with tracy morgan making his long awaited return to snl. it's donald trump's hosting that's no laughing matter for nbc's legal department. exclusive information about something you may never heard of, equal time rules after the break.

the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc.

to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible.

you're down with crestor. yes! when diet and exercise aren't enough, adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol up to 55%. crestor is not for people with liver disease, or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. tell your doctor all medicines you take.

call your doctor if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine, or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of serious side effects. i'm down with crestor! make your move. ask your doctor about crestor. the health care law gives us powerful tools to fight it. on medicare fraud. to investigate it. prosecute it. and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers are teaching seniors across the country to stop, spot and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. last night he proved his

return to snl. >> can he speak? does he have 100% mental capacity. i mielg be a few points higher now. >> donald trump will be on november 17th. >> saturday night live but aisle be completely honest. it's even better for saturday night live that i'm here. nobody's bigger than me. i'm a ratings machine.

>> validated anti-latino comments. the lawyers for trump's gop rivals. they will be tallying up the time he gets. the rule doesn't apply to news shows. even talk shows like the tonight show. it could apply to snl. here is an example you might remember. remember two weeks ago hillary clinton made an appearance as val. now here to help us make sense is most recently, bill good to see you. this infects local stations at nbc, their own. >> only the local stations and only in the area where the

candidate is a legitimate candidate. he has to be a legal, on the record candidate. when al sharpton was presidential candidate way back when and hosted the show, there was a demand for equal time. it only took place in one market or maybe just a few. it was done on a saturday night when the show was in repeat and only for the amount of time that he was on the air. it was tallied up. >> the last thing council is telling us we're not asking to put larry on snl, we're just asking for other time on the channel. >> he's only on for three, four, five minutes. trump will be on for substantial time. >> this will be a big deal for lower candidates. >> only in markets of new hampshire, iowa and south carolina. >> why is that? >> that's the only place he's a legal candidate so far or will be by the time of this performance. they've worked this out. if you want to have equal time

in station in south carolina on a repeat night on an nbc affiliate, you can get that. >> let's talk about this broader point of having trump on snl. >> never happened before. never happened. >> you've been covering this for decades. when you heard the announcement, were you surprised? >> i was surprised they would take the risk in doing it because he's become a lightning rod. >> he said there's doing a cameo. he said on the air i'm bigger than the show. in this case he probably is. he's going to bring the biggest audience of the year. it's even more so this year. it doesn't surprise me they invited him. >> back in july they severed ties with donald trump. >> they said not only will he not be back, he will absolutely never host the apprentice again. they said absolutely never. that was at the heat of the debate about what he was saying

about hispanic. you can see he's already their news. >> he's already been on fallon. >> he wasn't just interviewed. >> it's also there's no hispanics on the show. there's no hispanic talent on the show now. that makes it awkward for them. >> nbc declined to comment on that. >> loren michaels is sensitive. the black cast is enormous. you saw in a sketch it was like almost black players.

loren is a very smart guy. he's going to handle this. it will come out positive both for trump and the show. >> good to see you. >> thanks. next, an interview i've been waiting 20 years to do. stay tuned. ♪ while you're watching this, i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets.

there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security. we're ready. are you? thiproof of less joint pain. and clearer skin. this is my body of proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis from the inside out ...with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage and clear skin in many adults. doctors have been prescribing humira for nearly 10 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis serious,sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where

certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. visit humira.com and talk to your rheumatologist. humira. this is a body of proof! to help those in need. here to volunteer when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirits but there's a growing pain in his lower back. as lines grow longer, his pain continues to linger. but after a long day of helping others, he gets some helpful advice. just two aleve have the strength to keep back pain away all day. today, jason chose aleve. aleve, all day strong. and try aleve pm, now with an easy open cap.

this next story is really personal to me and embarrassing. it's also about one of the best selling books of all times with 400 million copies in print. talking about these goose bump books by r.l.stine. i had a website deck indicadica them. it was called the bumps. i ended up getting to know stine and we're friends. i used to send snail mail

letters to stine and e-mail. now days i with just tweet at them. goosebumps are back because the first movie based on the serious is out. it's the number one movie this weekend. i sat down with stine a few days ago. it was a wild opportunity. i asked him how the movie came about. >> it took 20 years, which is a long time. no one could figure out which story should we do, which book should we base the movie on. that's what script after script and nobody liked anything. then a couple years ago somebody had the idea, they said, let's not do one story. let's do them all. let's put all the monsters in one movie. afs that they were able to move forward. >> every book has three parts, a beginning, middle and a twist. is that how you think about your movies? >> that's my favorite line in

the movie. that's all i care about are the twists. in every book there has to be a point where the reader stops and says, i didn't know that. i didn't realize that. that's totally different from what i thought. it takes them off in a completely different direction. >> do you think the movie will appeal to more to young children,000 or now or millenia like me who grew up reading the book? >> we have to get everyone. we have to get the 30-year-olds and they have to bring their 7-year-olds. the movie is designed that way. i think a lot of '90s, kids, my original readers will say there's the snow man. there are the lawn gnomes. i think they will have a lot of fun remembering the characters. it's a good kids movie. all these monsters chasing me and the other characters. >> i have a personal connection

to your life because back in the '90s, i created this fan website. i feel silly saying it now. i was obsessed with the books. >> why? it was an amazing accomplishment. >> i was just a kid and i was -- >> it wasn't easy -- in those days, it wasn't easy to have a website. it was hard. >> there were all these fans reading my website because they were as fascinated by your books as i was. what did it mean to have all these fan websites? what did it mean to have 12-year-olds like me e-mailing you trying to get information about the next books? >> it was really exciting. it was great. actually, this is true. you're a 12-year-old kid. i used to go to your website every day to find out what was happening with "goosebumps." it's true. you were such an aggressive

12-year-old. you would call steven spielberg and say, what's happening with the "goosebumps" game and you interviewed my son. >> i think i probably scared you all a little bit. >> then i met you. >> what do you think it is that you know about young readers that other authors and publishers don't? >> i actually like kids. i think that makes me different from some children's authors. and i'm very careful never to talk down to kids. i think kids are really smart. and i think that makes a difference in the books. >> what an experience to meet your icon. up next, we're going inside the world of virtual reality. you got to see this right after the break. on optimism. it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable.

who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world. is it keeps the food out. for me before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. super poligrip is part of my life now.

real milk vs. almond milk protein show down milk wins. 8 times the protein, less bathroom breaks. who says families have to share data now get four lines. each with up to 10 gigs of 4g lte data. just $30 bucks a line it's 10 gigs for all only from t-mobile

through this headset, i can watch history being made. last tuesday's debate was the first news event ever live streamed in virtual reality. it could be the next big thing in the evolution of media. that's what palmer lucky believes. he founded a company facebook bought last year for $2 billion. so when i visit him at facebook headquarters recently, we talked about the technology and its implications for journalism. >> how do you describe virtual reality? >> i would think of it like a pair of virtual ski goggles. normally, you put them on and see the world around you with these goggles. with this, it's putting the headset on and now you're

looking around inside the virtual world. >> like i'm on the ski slope. >> or anything else that you can imagine. you can be anywhere and do anything right from inside your home and trick your subconscious into believing you're in these virtual scenes. >> my wife had baseball tickets for tonight. she's all the way back in new york, so i can't go. are you saying i could put on that headset and be at the game with her virtually? >> precisely. perhaps neither of you are at the game but feel like you're in the best seats at the game. not just in the baseball staudium, but potentially in the best seats in the baseball stadium. >> is gaming sort of the gateway drug so to speak and so many other applications of vr after that? >> the thing about gaming, it's kind of been building up to

virtual reality the whole time. and virtual reality's the obvious next step. people with the technology and tools and talent right now are in the games industry. that's why you're seeing so many games at the start of vr. >> you were studying journalism in school. how do you think vr could apply to the journalism would? >> one of the biggest issues we have right now with news, it's often hard to draw your own conclusions and have all the relevant information. most ideas are communicated through photos, videos or texts. it's easy to tell different stories how you frame the video. i think that virtual reality and full-scene captures have the potential to present events to people as they actually occur. they can see the entire frame. everything going on behind the photographer, in front of the photographer. >> i guess up until now, all

journalism's been in two dimensions. you're only seeing what's in front of the cameras. >> right. >> that's what vr could change. >> absolutely. i think that really does change the way that you perceive things. if you're talking about a war zone, political debate, about some kind of rally knowing what is actually happening in that scene as opposed to what a person is able to capture or the story they want to capture through the frame of a camera. i think the outlets are going to to have be really responsible with this new technology. it does have the potential to i guess create false equivalency between something that actually happened and something that didn't happen. >> there's a whole new set of media ethics questions that come with vr. >> it's going to be important for people to understand that just because something looks real in virtual reality doesn't

necessarily mean it is real. you shouldn't assume it's real unless they tell you. without that assurance, you don't want to fall into the trap of seeing something in vr and saying this is how it actually happened. >> taking the headset off for now. we're out of time. "state of the union" with jake tapper starts right now. back to back to back exclusives. first up, jeb bush. livid over donald trump's comments about his brother. >> when you talk about george bush, say what you want, the world trade center came down during his time. >> jeb's response next. then one on one with hillary clinton. weighing in on bernie, benghazi, and 40 years with bill. >> i'm not going to sit here and tell you it's been a path filled with rose