gloria, thanks for doing this. >> sure. that's it for me. thanks very much for watching. i hope you join us right here tomorrow in "the situation room." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> reporter: "outfront" next, a plane mysteriously falls out of the sky. was it a terror attack? plus, the plane's tail. an "outfront" special report tonight. and breaking news, ben carson surging leading donald trump by six points in the new national poll released moments ago. let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, terror or catastrophic malfunction? investigators are pouring over the wreckage of flight 268 and the plane's black boxes. they are trying to figure out if

terrorists attacked the jumbo jet killing everyone on board. an isis group claims responsibility for shooting down the plane. the plane took off from a popular site in sharm el-sheikh. the black boxes have both been found and are being analyzed as we speak. we're learning about an incident involving the plane's tail which could be related to the sudden malfunction. we begin with arwa damon "outfront" tonight in cairo. the flight crew did not send a distress call. what are officials saying tonight about the possibility of terrorism? >> reporter: well, at this stage, erin, all officials are pretty much ruling out the idea that the plane was shot down.

as to whether or not this may have been a terrorist attack, that is not being dismissed at this stage but there is no evidence that indicate that it was an act of terrorism. all of that being said, there is also no clear explanation as to what brought that plane down. the mystery of what brought down a russian passenger jet, killing all 224 people on board, including at least 25 children, has only deepened. the only thing international investigators seem to agree on is that the airbus a-321, operated by the russian airline metro jet, broke apart in the sky, disintegrating just 23 minutes after takeoff. radar information indicates that at that point early saturday, the plane lost speed and descended rapidly. wreckage spreading over an eight square-mile area in the sinai

desert. the plane's black boxes have been recovered but not yet fully examined. airline officials say there was no warning from the crew and offered only a broad explanation as to what may have happened. >> translator: the only reason i could explain the plane's breaking up in the midair can be a certain influence mechanical impact. >> reporter: the question all are asking, could isis have shot down the plane or was there a bomb on board? tonight, at least five airlines are rerouting their planes to avoid the sinai region. officials say it's too soon to know whether terrorism is involved. >> it's unlikely but i wouldn't rule it out. we don't have any direct evidence of any terrorist involvement yet.

>> reporter: an isis affiliate is claiming responsibility. however, the terror group most advanced surface-to-air weapons have an effective range of somewhere between 12 and 16,000 feet at the max. this plane was up at 33,000 feet. >> reporter: initial examination of the wreckage and victims fail to find any evidence consistent with a bomb. records show that the plane was 18 years old and had logged nearly 21,000 flights while it passed a routine safety check prior to takeoff, the plane's tail had been damaged in a 2001 landing and repaired. >> reporter: erin, the co-pilot's ex-wife said he had spoken to their daughter just before departing. according to her, he said that he was expressing his wishes that the plane was in better technical condition. that being said, airline

officials were very quick to say that the plane was in pristine condition, all of this raising a lot more questions as people search for answers. erin? >> thank you very much, arwa damon. matthew chance is "outfront" in st. petersburg, russia. matthew. what are you learning about the boxes? >> reporter: well, not a great deal at this stage. we know that they have been found, which is good news. they are in the hands of the ee jimgs authorities who are now examining them and with the russian authority and from the french and airline company, airbus, the airline manufacturing company. we haven't been given a time frame yet on when the results are going to be public and certainly nothing has leaked in terms of what the black boxes have revealed.

and so we're waiting to hear from those authorities. >> matthew, 224 people lost their lives. unimaginable horror. people coming home from vacation. these were families and there were a lot of young children on board. >> reporter: it's one of the features of this flight that it has touched the hearts of so many people inside this country. russia is no stranger to airline disasters affected by terrorism. it's had technical failures in the past. look at all of these flowers behind me and candles and children toys that have been laid here the last three days. this was a tourist site. families were capturing the winter sun in the sinai peninsula before the winter starts in earnest here in russia. 25 children on board as well and that's really led to an out pouring of public grief but not just the children on board, the orphans that were created inside of russia because there were a

good number of couples that left their children with relatives here in st. petersburg and went to spend some adult time together. there's a group of orphans that have been created as well. it's really touched people inside russia and elsewhere, of course. >> matthew chance, thanks very much. the picture of that little toddler looking out the window at the airport, obviously that toddler also died on the flight. just horrific. "outfront" now, cia bob baer and mary schiavo and david susie. mary, let's start with how this crash could have happened. kwo this be terrorism? >> it could be terrorism. i wouldn't rule out terrorism or mechanical at this point. a missile seems unlikely but also could have been a bomb. pan am 103 comes to mind and

that was plastic explosives and just a small amount. anything is on the table at this point. >> bob, the missile scenario being dismissed by many simply because the isis-linked groups would have been able to hit it at 31,000 plus feet. could a bomb have been possible? >> absolutely. it could have been put on the ground at sharm el-sheikh. they are very easy to put on and very destructive. as mary said, a very small amount of explosives can take this plane down, split it in half. >> and you're saying it could have been programmed at a certain altitude so once it hit this level, it exploded? >> exactly.

barometric switches is old technology back to the '70s, how to blow up an airplane with these. very hard to detect. the security in sharm el-sheikh, getting a bomb through there, yes, it's possible. >> david, if it's possible it was a bomb, how big of a bomb would it have had to be? we're talking about 224 people on board. this was a big jet. >> well, the pressure differential in an aircraft is maintained at about 9 psi-d, differential. if the pressure exceeds that, up to 15, 16, it can fracture the hull or the structure of the aircraft. so to get it from 9 psi-d to a 15 or 16 psi-d is not that hard to do. it takes just a quickly accelerated mass of air so the bomb would not have to be very

big. with that being said, with the bear metric pressure devices, that airport is equipped with barometric testing devices for bags. so it would have -- if that was the case, which could very well have been, it would have had to have been put on in some other way so it's not part of the baggage system at least. >> this bag was flying from a popular tourist destination. is it possible someone on the ground could have tampered with the plane, someone who could have had access to the plane, mechanic or otherwise? >> right. it could have been tampering on the ground, in bags, could have been put on by anyone working at the airport on the planes. even in the best of security it could have been a timer switch. >> and bob, would we have the ability to figure out what happened if this did happen?

would there be obvious residue everywhere or would they have the technology, from your understanding to do something that was harder to trace? >> i think there would be explosive residue. there's exotic explosives that look like normal material. i think the best scenario, if indeed there were terrorists involved with some sort of a plastic explosive, that's the best way to shatter the skin of an airline. surely a thorough investigation would uncover that. it would appear in the baggage or in the overhead or wing, you will see residue and they will eventually figure that out. >> david, an isis-linked video released a video. i'm not going to show it to everyone. but it shows a plane flying, exploding into a fireball and falling from the sky and a plume of black smoke. the reason we're not showing this, we're not able to confirm if it's real. russian authorities dispute it.

you've seen it and think it is authentic, though? >> i don't know how authentic it is. of course, it depends on where it came from and they have ruled it out because of that. but if it were authentic, it would fit the same profile as what you see as debris on the ground because of the fact that the tail has been removed in that video after the explosion and the forward part of the aircraft from the back of the wing forward is what is remaining in the video. if you look at ground, the part that is the largest landing area, the largest crash area, is the forward wing and the fuselage. if it turns out that it is real, it would be in line with the type of accident debris we see on the ground. >> bob, this still could be mechanical. if it was an isis-linked group, if this was terror, it would be a complete game changer in their ability to do something like this? >> oh, it would. it's not just sharm el-sheikh.

just these bombs, these technologies, we can't completely defeat. >> thanks to all of you. "outfront" next, the tail of this jet was damaged in a hard landing years ago. tails like that are common and can lead to an accident. plus, breaking news in a new national poll ben carson is pulling away from donald trump. and jeb bush trying to, quote, fix it, launching jeb 2.0. will it work? the great beauty of owning a property is that you can create wealth through capital appreciation, and this has been denied to many south africans for generations. this is an opportunity to right that wrong. the idea was to bring capital into the affordable housing space in south africa,

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making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi, and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. ♪ tonight, major questions about how a passenger jet broke into pieces in midair. all 224 on board dead. this exact plane suffered major damage to its tail in an

incident years ago and tonight there are questions as to whether that incident could have led to this weekend's crash. it has happened before. miguel marquez has an "outfront" special report. >> reporter: the a-321, the newest, biggest and most advance airbus in the popular line of a-320 planes. more than 1100 a-321s are flying somewhere in the world. about 200 are flown by u.s. carriers. the 18-year-old flight 9268 had some 56,000 flight hours in nearly 21,000 flights. a roucould a rough landing in 2 be the cause? the a-321 with the longer body stands a higher chance of the tail striking the runway on landing. too sharp of a descent or takeoff, the tail can hit. in november 2001, then flying for middle east airlines, that's

just what happened to this a321. despite the damage, the plane was repaired. >> if it's done properly and done by a mechanic that's experienced and the procedure is followed, it shouldn't be an issue. >> reporter: airbus vigorously tests its planes for such a possibility. >> we go beyond the limit by putting the tail on the ground and slowly accelerate. >> reporter: for the tests, the planes are equipped with a special skid to prevent damage, shown in this airbus flight material. >> if it's too harsh, we can stress the repairs. >> reporter: but tail strikes can be deadly even years after the incident. august 1985 in japan, the deadliest single crash ever. a packed 747 slams into the side of a mountain leaving 520 people dead. >> it was a similar type of circumstance. they had a tail strike. the repair was made and then

after a number of years, you know, there was a failure. >> reporter: the cause traced back more than seven years when the plane's tail scraped the ground on landing. the repairs were not done properly. the plane eventually ripped away from the plane mid-flight and then there was this doomed 747 that broke apart in the air. investigators say metal around the repair work weakened and eventually caused a catastrophic structural failure. since 1982, 31 planes operated have had tail strikes. >> a tail strike can cause a problem. and it may not be an immediate problem. it may take years for the problem to develop. >> reporter: from the mangled debris field of metrojet, investigators will have to piece together whether or not an incident 14 years ago brought down this plane, something more

sinister or a problem with the pilot previously unknown. >> a pretty sobering report. as you heard, 31 planes, u.s. carriers, having suffered these tail failures. mary, how common are tail repairs? >> tail repairs are pretty common in terms of the repairs to the plane but tail strikes, several times a year they happen and they happen more specific at certain airports. john wayne airport is infamous for having them. but the repair is not so much they happen but who does it and how well it's done. if you get a bad repair, once it's painted over and it's back into service, if it's not done right, it's a ticking time bomb because you never go back to it. you do it, you do the repair and you you a assume it's done correctly. >> you're talking about this being a ticking time bomb. this plane's tail was damaged in 2001. could something that long ago have been responsible for this

horrible crash that we just saw? >> oh, absolutely. because over time the repair or the damage to the structure will create wear and tear and once it's painted over, you can't jack up the paint job and see what's underneath it and the problem is, in these inspections, you don't have an ultra sonic inspection or test that would reveal it or further deterioration on or around the repair. >> ron, this is pretty terrifying for passengers. would a pilot have known if there was a problem on the plane a decade before? would you be aware of all of this, or no? >> actually, no. a pilot would not be aware. we count on the appropriate maintenance procedures being done. every time we get in an aircraft, we as pilots check the aircraft maintenance log.

if there's a sign-off, the plane is considered good to go. if we don't feel good about something with the airplane, we won't take the aircraft. to answer your question, no, we don't see history that far back. >> and ron, the co-pilot's ex-wife said he told his daughter before the flight that he was concerned with the technical condition of the plane. when you hear that, what do you think? >> that's hard to say. as i mentioned, the air worthiness signoff, the logbook being clean, is an indication that the aircraft is good to be released into the line. with that being said, we have numerous preflight checks and check lists to go through before we take that aircraft airborne. if we don't feel good about something, even though that aircraft is signed off as being air worthy, we'll return it to the gate. >> mary, authorities are telling cnn there was no distress call

at all. is that significant to you, do you think, or no? >> i think it's highly significant. whatever happened, it happened very, very quickly. and losing a structural member like a wing or tail -- i have to say, a case in florida, they had a beautiful paint job and did not get a mayday call there or on twa 800 with the center wing tank explosion either. >> thank you both very much. "outfront" next, the breaking news on ben carson, taking the lead in a new national poll released moments ago. can you overtake trump as the front-runner. and republicans' debate demands. gentlemen. you look well. what's new, flo? well, a name your price tool went missing last week.

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together, we're building a better california. breaking news, ben carson surging. he's leading in the new national orc poll just released. up seven points from early

october and now six points of jeb bush. jeff zeleny is "outfront." we've seen in multiple times in multiple polls. is this a turning point? >> erin, it could be a turning point. the republican electorate now seems to be saying they like ben carson. of course, his demeanor could not be more different than donald trump. donald trump was the leader throughout the summer and into the early fall. they liked his brashness. they liked how sharp his edges were. i mean, ben carson is essentially the opposite of that. that's why i find this so interesting. it's the beginning of a trend. we don't know if it will hold into the fall. this race is very dynamic. it's changing. right now, ben carson is the man to beat here. it's not because of his policy positions, necessarily. he's not given that many specific policy positions. i think it's more that they are looking for someone who is, a, an outsider, like donald trump, but, b, someone whose volume is

not turned up as much as donald trump so now the challenge is to see if he can hold onto this. donald trump is not going anywhere here and he's yet to spend a dime on advertising. ben carson is spending on advertising. that's fueling probably some of this. >> absolutely. donald trump is still the front-runner in most polls but this is the second one, which is significant. now, marco rubio -- many people say he won the last debate. he got a lot of credit for that. he's essentially flat in this poll. i understand it was done before and after the debate. >> right. that's one important thing to keep in mind here. the debate was conducted over a span of five days. four days was before the debate, one day was after the debate. it's too early to say if marco rubio has flat-lined in a national survey. where marco rubio is trying to jump out now is in the early states, new hampshire, iowa, south carolina. he's trying to jump-start his campaign and get support from

donors and others looking for a horse who can go the distance here. i think marco rubio is still in good position here. we'll have to get a little more information coming up to see how much of a lead he has after that debate. this poll doesn't quite offer us more information. >> thank you very much, jeff. this national poll comes as a the gop is putting out a list of demands for future debates and the candidates are starting to fight among themselves. sara murray is "outfront." >> reporter: donald trump may not be at the top of the national polls but he's still leading in new hampshire. trump has 26% support from republicans, a ten-point lead over dr. ben carson in second. >> well, it's interesting. >> reporter: after a strong debate performance, marco rubio now surging to third, tripling his support since september and picking up endorsement from freshman gardener. now there's a new challenge, reforming the structure of their

presidential debates. >> is this a comic book version of a presidential campaign? >> no, it's not. >> reporter: and representatives from several campaigns met on sunday to determine exactly how their candidates can expert control over how the debates are derived. they have demands, like no lightning rounds, campaigns approve all graphics and the temperature in the debate hall must be kept below 67 degrees. >> may not get everything in one big bite but we're making progress and that's the important thing. >> reporter: while there's concession on each issue, the candidates are downplaying their weaknesses. candidates like jeb bush says they want more speaking time. >> the rules that are established and they lost control over the entire process last time. >> i know that harry truman

couldn't get elected in 30 seconds. >> while those competing for more conservative voters want to see different moderators. >> if you have never voted in a republican primary in your life, you don't get to moderate a republican primary debate. >> reporter: but not all candidates are on board. they say the debates are just fine. >> we have no trouble negotiating with the networks. i'll debate anytime, anywhere. >> let's just go. >> now, it turns out this agreement with the campaigns is short lived and already falling apart and it began with donald trump saying he will negotiate directly with the networks. after that, we heard from john kasich, chris christie, carly fiorina, all of them saying they won't sign on to this joint letter about the debates. >> sara, thank you very much.

"outfront" now, barry bennett. you are the man of the moment. this breaking news poll, "wall street journal" poll showing dr. carson definitely number one. 29%. that's the highest percentage any gop candidate has gotten so far in this particular poll. that's significant. the election is a year away. hillary clinton was leading barack obama by 20% last time in the last election. can dr. carson maintain this lead? >> yes, because he's the only one who has the vision for making the republican party bigger, bolder and better. >> this is the second national poll that showed dr. carson leading, right? there was one other. this is the second. >> yes. >> trump said, and i'll quote him, i don't get it. are you prepared for him to start attacking dr. carson more now? this is now a second poll, as you heard jeff zeleny say, possibly the beginning of a trend. >> it doesn't matter whether he

does or doesn't. again, how to make the party bigger, better and bolder. >> you said you want more of a chance to put out policy descriptions. obviously an argument about your campaign is we haven't heard specific policies. are we going to get more specific policy suggestions? >> we've been trying. every time we have a debate about the economy, all we get asked about is gay marriage. yeah, we're trying. >> so you're frustrated with the debates. look, as you know, you and i talked about this. you were one of the leaders here in this conversation between the campaigns to try to change the debate terms. some of the demands, though -- you're saying you don't want to talk about gay marriage in an economic debate. you want to talk about the economy. some of the demands in the memo that's come out from your meeting are the temperature, must be less than 67 degrees. no lightning round questions. candidates can't ask each other questions. campaign must approve of the

graphics. no showing audience or moderators' reactions during the debate. how is this substantive? >> this was the same letter used four and eight years ago. that's the big change. there's no change. we just want to know this information. we have a debate in nine days, eight days in milwaukee and i know precious little about it. >> but these demands would not apply to that debate, sflit. >> no. itsz the way the process has been going. we expect to be there and they tell us what to do. we are not show steers in an arena. we are candidates running for president and we should be wanting to talk about our plans for america and instead of gotcha questions and where you stand on gay marriage. >> why put forward this list of details? i understand your point. this list has been put out before. why not throw out things like the temperature in the bathrooms and go for the substance? obviously these other things don't create the image that you care about substance. >> all we wanted was data back

from the broadcasters. some of the stuff -- i mean, we've had three debates. not all of them have been run very well, frankly. and they should have been run a lot better and we're not in this to make, you know, send them money or fox money or cnbc money. we're in this to have a substantial debate about the issues and that doesn't appear to be what some of the networks are interested in and it's very frustrating. >> some don't seem interested in these demands. have a listen to the candidates today. >> yep. >> there's a lot tougher things you'll have to do than debating, going to nine debates in the republican primary. >> my policy remain what is it's always been. i'll debate anytime, anyone, anywhere. >> if you think people watching the debate cares about the future of the country is worried about whether a bathroom is close? come on. if you can't exert bladder

control for two hours, maybe you shouldn't be president of the united states. >> humorous side, barry. you don't even have all of the candidates on board with the demands you're putting forth. >> some of the demands in the latest poll would not even make the stage. so there are all kinds of egos involved. we're trying to do something that -- somebody who was in that room on sunday night is going to be managing the fall campaign. i don't know who it is. nobody does. we want to make sure we don't damage the brand before we get there by allowing stupid things to happen. >> donald trump will not sign on either. donald trump certainly would be on that stage. what do you say to him? >> i talked to him, the donald trump folks a few moments ago. and they are going to send their own letter or -- you know, that's fine. they are sticking to the principles that we agreed to. there's no deviation from that. >> thank you, barry. good to talk to you, sir. >> thank you. "outfront" next, jeb bush with a major campaign relaunch.

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tonight, jeb bush fixing it. hitting the road to turn around his floundering campaign. is this jeb bush 2.0 or just more of the same? athena jones is "outfront." >> our story is about action. doing. not just talking. >> reporter: jeb bush rolling out his new slogan in florida today. jeb can fix it but that slogan is leading many to wonder whether it's his country or campaign he's trying to fix. >> and as your president, i will fight every day. >> reporter: he is hoping it will place a renewe focus on his conservative record and, perhaps more importantly, give him a much needed boost in the wake of consistently weak poll numbers. >> more than enough, thank you. >> reporter: and a weak debate performance. >> you should be showing up to work. >> someone has convinced you

that attacking me is going to help you. >> i know that i've got to get better doing the debate. and i'm a grinder. i mean, when i see i'm not doing something well, then i reset and i get better. >> reporter: bush included jabs at front-runner donald trump and marco rubio. >> the answer is not sending someone from one side of the capital city to the other. you can't just tell congress you're fired and go to commercial break. >> reporter: the fix it door comes as there's an e-book full of e-mails he sent and received during his two terms as governor. >> they used to call me the e-governor. >> reporter: the book includes revealing moments, like an angry e-mail bush received during the florida recount in 2000 and one from a constituent who claimed bush was spending too much time campaigning for his brother and not enough time doing his day job. an attack line bush has struggled to use against rubio. also included, gentle ribbing

about his son's swearing in photo. the former president saying, i love the photo of your swearing in. it's so good of you that i got over my being cropped out by the photographer. the big question for the person hoping to be the third president bush is whether this latest bush will resonate with american voters. bush argued that it's not about personalities but about leadership. it's not the kind of attitude that will win the general election. erin? >> athena, thank you. i want to go to ana navarro, a jeb bush supporter and friend of marco rubio. you're a major fund-raiser for jeb bush. do you think this will turn his campaign around? do you feel better today? >> i do feel better. part of the reason i feel better, erin, i spent some time with him yesterday and this is a guy who doesn't live in a bubble. jeb has understood, has heard that he needs to improve. frankly, he needs to improve at

this debate. you know, the debates are having a huge influence on the narrative on how this race is perceived on the numbers, on the polls. and i think -- we were joking yesterday morning. he said to me, well, i'm really glad the cnbc moderators were so bad because at least there was somebody at that debate that was worse than me. this is a guy that has a lot of self-awareness, knows he didn't do well and has to improve. he's making the changes to his campaign, to his message that i think are needed. >> uh-huh. >> but you know, jeb is going to be jeb. he's going to be the same core jeb but i do think he understands that he's got to project himself as more forceful, more energetic. >> right. >> with a fire in the belly and be a better candidate. >> and portray himself with more fire in the belly, to be more forceful. we actually took a look at some of the things he's saying now and this relaunch day versus what he said in june the first

time. i want to play it for you. >> i know we can fix this because i've done it. >> i know i can fix it because i've done it. >> every life matters. and everyone has the right to rise. >> every life matters. and every american. every american has the right to rise to their god given potential. >> i will campaign as i would serve. going everywhere, speaking to everyone, keeping my word, facing the issues without flinching and staying true to what i believe. i will be true to myself, on the mystic and inclusive. my message will be an optimistic one. i will not trade in an optimistic outlook to put on the cloak of an angry agitator. >> ana, that's the same guy saying the same things. >> and it will be the same guy, erin. this is a guy who is hell-bent

on not changing, of not being inauthentic, on not pretending to be who he is not. it will be the same guy. frankly, he's got a pretty good message and he had done pretty well from that campaign launch. the debates have been his achilles heel. he's got to focus squarely on how to slay that debate dragon. jeb hadn't debated in well over a decade. he's never debated with ten other people on the stage. he needs to figure out how not only to be jeb bush, the policy guy, but also jeb bush the performer and understand that one thing doesn't negate the other. one thing is not exclusive to the other. i think he's heard that message loud and clear. look, i don't expect jeb to change. he's not going to change his pants, his ties, his glasses, he's not going to change who jeb is but he needs to be speaking to the electorate. >> okay. >> so this question of whether he has fire in the belly does

not come up. >> ana, thank you very much. "el faro" lost at sea during a hurricane. the owners say they did nothing wrong. we'll share the outrage. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? ♪ it's the final countdown! ♪ ♪ the final countdown!

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tonight wreckage found remains of the deem u.s. cargo ship "el faro" spotted nearly three miles under water upright on the ocean floor. investigators sending an unmanned vehicle down to see its condition and look for the missing crew members. the ship sank after sailing into a category 4 hurricane. 33 crew members on board were almost all american, and now the company that owns "el faro" is filing a lawsuit. they are trying to block family members from suing them, sparking outrage. martin savidge is out front. >> reporter: confirmation the "el faro" has been found brings new heartbreak to the families of the 33 people lost. >> i wonder when she knew the

ship was sinking. if she had tried to figure out some way to escape or some way to save everybody on there. >> reporter: and their suffering may not be over any time soon. the u.s. navy was still saechg for the ship that disappeared october 1st in the middle of a hurricane, "el faro"'s owners tote marine launched a preemptive strike aiming to limit what families can receive in a lawsuit. >> this 150-year-old law was intended to buttress and support a fledgling maritime industry back in the day when we didn't have insurance and it may sense to try to promote industry, but now the industry is obviously highly successful. >> reporter: attorneys for the families are outraged. >> they are relying on an old law, a law that was enacted back when we had wooden ships, wooden

sail boats and transferring cargos. it's -- it's -- the family feels betrayed 'in the complaint filed friday in u.s. district court in florida the owners see, quote, exoneration from or limitation of liability, unquote. if the company were found to be liable, it suggests paying the families based on a 1980s value of the cargo, plus the value of the vessel itself. >> in their own papers they estimated the value of the vessel which is now at bottom of the ocean at zero dollars. >> reporter: that would mean the most that each family could get it the $464,000, so far five lawsuits have been filed on board "el faro" blaming tote marine, among other things, for improperly maintaining the ship and knowingly sending it off into the path of a growing and dangerous storm. we reached out to the company to explain the new legal course they are now sailing. tote would only say, quote, the company will not discuss individual legal actions out of respect for the legal process.

our focus remains on support and care for the families and their loved ones, unquote >> the it should be pointed out that tote is not the only company to rely on this very old law after some kind of maritime disaster. many companies have, including big names such as bp after the gulf oil spill and it doesn't always work but it does show when disaster strikes companies rely on what is a 150-year-old plus defense. erin? >> martin savidge, thank you very much, and we'll be right back. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough, but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections,

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thank you for joining us and be sure to set your dvr to record ""outfront." ""a c360" with john berman starts right now. >> good evening, john berman in for anderson. breaking news in the plane crash that took the lives of 224 men, women and children, 25 children over egypt's sinai desert. a heat flash seen by an american satellite high overhead. infrared sensors detented this sudden flash of heat and that could speak volumes about what happened to that russian airbus. there's that and there is also fact that the airline owes employees two months pay or there's much more including an isis-affiliate claiming responsibility, a whole lot to cover here. first, cnn aviation correspondent renee marsh joins us with the breaking news. renee, tell us about this satellite and just what it picked up. >> john, cnn