it started with british prime minister david cameron announcing that the plane may well have been, quote, downed by an explosive device. three hours officials agree telling cnn it's likely that a bomb brought down the plane. and it was possibly planted by isis or an affiliate. two hours after that, a middle east source confirms that a bomb source is likely. shortly after that, a u.s. official even pointed the finger inside of sharm el sheikh airport suggesting someone there helped get a bomb on the plane. cnn is covering this around the world starting with diplomatic editor nic robertson in russia. with the kremlin issuing the word about the crash. what do you know, snic? >> reporter: well, alisyn, it's very interesting because they're refusing to bring down the possibility that the plane was brought down by terrorism. but however, going as far as they can to say that all of this information is wrong.

this is what the kremlin has issued in their statement, they are saying, any versions regarding the incident and its causes may only be voiced by the investigation. we have not heard of any statements from the investigators so far. any other statements are unverified information or some kind of speculations. speculation. the kremlin here is trying to push back and make it appear that this information is somehow incorrect. but they're not offering their own analysis, what we've heard is that metrojet's others have been grounded. it does appear for moment that the waters here are being somewhat muddying. michaela. >> nic, thank you for that. after dismissing isis, what got officials to take another look. well, it turns out that chatter

online after the plane went down got some attention. barbara starr. >> good morning, michaela, as you said, all of this being looked at. none of is certain. u.s. officials do believe it is potentially likely that the plane was brought down by a bomb onboard. either put on the luggage or somehow smuggled into the plane. that is why you're seeing so much focus on security at sharm el sheikh airport. they're not offering a lot of about the intelligence they do have. they say after the attack, they monitored isis chatter. that is what's leaning them towards isis or isis affiliate. it will change the calculation of what isis is capable of, if they're able to bring down an airliner. do they have a bombmaker themselves that is able to put together some type of device.

or did they basically hire someone to do it. all of these still questions very closely being looked at, alis alisyn. british prime minister david cameron set to meet with the egyptian president. clarissa ward has more. >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. well, the time of this could not be more awkward. the egyptian president just arrived yesterday afternoon. he's expected to sit down with prime david cameron in the next few hours. this comes after the british announcement that they're temporarily suspending all flights to and from sharm el sheikh. it was the secretary who made the announcement late last night after an emergency government meeting, and he said they had concluded that there was, quote, a significant possibility that the crash was caused by an explosive device on board the aircraft. didn't go into any details as to

what the intelligence is behind that claim, but certainly, it does appear to be in step with u.s. intelligence. the prime minister is now in another emergency meeting. likely, he's discussing how to get all of those british stranded tourist back from sharm el sheikh to the u.s. that could start as early as tomorrow. >> clarissa, thank you very much. this is setting up as a simple crime analysis, you have means, motive and opportunity. it's a simple analysis here. let's bring in ambassador thomas pickerling, former ambassador to israel and jordan. and michael weis, go author of "isis inside the army of terror." let's start with you, ambassador, motive, for isis to start a russian plane would be? >> is the most obvious would be syria.

there's a question about how many or what percentage. but that could be a reason for them to go after a russian charter airport in sharm el sheikh, where they may well have collaborators. the sinai peninsula has been for more than a year a wild west zone with egyptian control over big pieces of territory. >> all right. now that is the possible scenario that the ambassador is putting out. michael weis, you've studied the area. on the isis hit list, you would say russia is relatively low? >> no, actually, if you look at the sermon from july 2015, he names russia specifically because of the war in chechnya. and phrased with something like america and russian backed by the jews are responsible for this conspiracy. >> so you think that isis could take up the chechen call as

well? >> well, they've got loads of chechens and russian nationals from just the and that would feed the blood loss that they have for russia. the idea of this being blowback, as the ambassador said, if you look at it, most are not against isis. it's against the free army. >> what do we know about isis and bombmaking? >> well, these guys are extraordinary adept and they really came into their own in iraq. they were masters of the vehicle-born explosive devices. they've retrofitted cars to blow through checkpoints.

they have whole bombmaking factories in iraq and syria. the question is, chris, is this coming from isis' central command or the farm team, if you like, the affiliate that declared allegiance to isis but started out as its own franchise. >> and also. this is a group that openly advocates anybody to do anything that is terrible? >> absolutely. but these guys, last july, they had gotten involved in a fierce fire fight with egyptian personnel. egyptian government said we had to fight them like a conventional military, not like a guerilla insurgency. >> we have the capability of how they might target it. ambassador, that takes us to the opportunity of the witnessed doughs striking a russian jet. that may end up being a function of an inside job. you know this ground and security very well. what do you think about the opportunity here? >> chris, the airport has lacked

security, so, i think that adds to it. in addition to the conversation we just had, as you know, russia has been supporting president assad for three years and a half or so. and they, too, given the isis contention in syria would add to the number of reasons why they might go after it. so i think the security is poor, probably has some reality to it. the egyptians, of course, deeply hurt by that, because they depend heavily not just on sharm but other areas of traffic. and the british have shut that down. is an allegation in the face even the president by president azhizhi to britain, sending other precautions and people to sharm and look at the question of how they can get the 15,000 people out of there without using the airport which is going to be a serious feat. >> parse the language for us.

as we all know, bomb signatures pretty easy in terms of sophisticated analysis done in a case like this. what do you make of the language from the united states using likely, possibly, the same were the brits. and then obviously a bigger step back from russia, and a full step back from egypt in terms of moving away from this. >> three points, fairly like, because they have a relationship with egypt. fairly indicative because they are leaking it or saying it. and as a result, they have something to go on and we have seen perhaps chatter between isis people, and they make that an important part of the case. final point, look at lockerbie, it took a long, long time to find the computer chip made by swiss expert that apparently played a role on the detonation of that bomb. so, evidence on the ground may be harder to find. that may be what you need to lead to this in addition to the intel work.

>> certainly, on the intel side of who did it. it will take time and sophisticated analysis unless you get a big leak. and with meat on the bones. bomb signature, michael, they should be able to know that? >> right. one of the possible pieces, is the footage showing the heat explosion. that doesn't mean necessarily an explosive device is on the pl e plane. >> lots of things systemically can go wrong with the plane? >> right. remember, this particular plane 13 years ago sustained damage because it was trying to take off. and the hail hit the runway and i think was cracked open. so they repaired the plane and then subsequent owners. and this company metrojet said, no, no, there's no sign of wear and fatigue but not compression. who knows. we're trying to piece together using that. the u.s. is probably relying heavily on signature intelligence, intercepts between

sinai and central command. and the line of sinai, if they're putting together video, this is how we did. isis is famous for the slickly produced propaganda videos. they might be sharing the rough cuts. >> michael weiss and ambassador pickering, thank you very much. later this hour, we're going to get an unique view on it from new york police commissioner bill bratton. he understands capabilities very well. what does he make of isis' capabilities to do this. alisyn. chris, to latest in the presidential re-election. donald trump on top in the latest fox news national poll. backed by 26% of republican voters. dr. ben carson, three points behind. and marco rubio surging into a tie for third place with ted cruz, as you can see there. this as rubio fighting

allegations about his personal expenses. cnn chief political correspondent dana bash is on the campaign trail this morning in concord, new hampshire. dana, what have you learned? >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. well, you're talking about that new fox poll. i think what's most interesting about it, as we put it up on the screen, the numbers now but how much they are virtually unchanged when you look at the very top in the last month. donald trump, as awe said is now at 26%. he was at 24% in october. carson 23 now. 23% in october. and you go down the line, still, everybody else is really far behind. but when you're talking about where i am now, new hampshire, marco rubio is the man who everybody is looking at. because in the polls here, he is really jumped since his debate performance last week. or a couple of weeks ago. and that's probably why donald trump is going after him. i spoke to -- i asked trump about that, and i asked rubio who is also here in new hampshire to respond.

listen to this. >> marco rubio has a disaster on his finances. he has a disaster on his credit cards. >> bottom line, people need to you understand, this is an american express card. there were personal expenses on there. i paid them directly to american express at the time. >> reporter: at issue there, michaela, is the questions about which two newspapers in florida reported on yesterday. renewed yeses about a credit card that rubio used when he was in the florida state house. it was a republican party credit card. he paid some personal expenses on it. he insists that he paid them. he didn't just charge the party for things that he was doing personally. they say in the rubio campaign that they are going to make that public to prove that he did nothing wrong. they won't say when that's going to happen but they say it's go to be soon. >> donald trump stirring the pot and other candidates have to respond. dana, thank you for that. breaking overnight "the new

york times" is saying george h.w. bush quoting two in his new biography. john bermen is here. >> michaela, george h.w. bush saying cheney used too much influence forcing for force. bush says of dick cheney, he was just iron-ass. his seeming knuckling under to the real hard-charging guys who want to fight about everything. use force to get our way in the middle east. also the elder bush goes after his defense secretary donald rumsfeld, calling him an arrogant fellow who served badly. he's more kick ass and take names, take numbers.

and george w. bush responded. according to the "the new york times" he says, quote, i disagree with his characterization of what was going on. i made the decisions. this was my philosophy. as for the former vice president dick cheney, he responded on fox news. i think we have that. we'll play that. >> i fully admit that, after 9/11, i saw my role as being this tough and aggressive as it need to be to carry out the president's policy. 43's policy, to make sure we didn't get hit again. >> you know what's interesting, dick cheney was george h.w. bush's defense secretary. they've had a good relationship over time. donald rumsfeld and george h.w. bush not so much. a rivalry that dates back. >> not so much. >> there's plenty of blame to go around. there's plenty of finger

pointing after the george w. bush administration. >> it's one to another. but father and son. that's interesting. >> because the president takes one position, that's why you have other people, to minute the finger for you. there you go. more presidential politics. dr. ben carson said he was not always the soft-spoken and low key man we've seen on the campaign trail. in fact, he said he has a violent past. he said he attacked classmates and his money. when do his classmates remember about his violent temperature? we have a cnn investigation. carson's past next.

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he is meek and mild on the stump and on the debate stage. but gop candidate ben carson says he wasn't always so soft-spoken. in fact, he says his past was riddled with violence. we spoke with folks he knew

growing. up cnn joe johns has that for us. >> reporter: ben carson's quiet, dignified approach is a big part of his appeal. but he says his calm demeanor was carved out of a violent past. >> as a teenager, i would go out and hit people with rocks and bricks and baseball balls and hammers. >> reporter: carson wrote in his book about striking a school mate with a combination lock. nearly punching his mother. carson said he also tried to kill a friend identified as bob with a disagreement over the radio. he describes his temperament as pathological and a disease that made him totally irrational. >> i had a large knife, fortunately under his clothing, he had on a large metal belt bu buckle. and the knife struck with such

force that it broke. >> reporter: in fact, carson, it's depicted in a movie. >> what did you do? ♪ >> reporter: but then an epiphany. carson said he quelled his anger with prayer. >> i locked myself in the bathroom. and started contemplating my life. and realized i'd never realize my dream of becoming a physician with a temper like that. >> reporter: from that day forward, carson said he was a man from poverty in detroit to world famous neurosurgeon. >> i never had an angry outburst since that day. >> reporter: but that early picture of violence is not recognizable to someone who grew up as carson. >> i was shocked. i was surprised. he was quiet and calm. >> reporter: cnn reporters maeve reston tracked down neighbors.

only one said they heard vague rumors about all of the incidents. but all said this was not the boy they knew. >> i was surprised when he said he tried to stab someone. i was like, what? >> reporter: does it sit with the guy you knew, that kind of activity? >> no. >> reporter: and telling cnn, it was a quote, witch hunt. cnn has been had unable to locate witnesses or victims. >> i associate him with a lot of things, but never stooping to the level of a street thug. i was a little surprised by it. >> reporter: tith miami mcdaniel's said he was one of carson's closest friends. he said he raised it with carson after the book came out. >> he said, you hid it from us? he said he was too embarrassed to even talk about it. i was surprised about some of the things he said, he said it

honestly and i believe everything he said. >> reporter: joe johns, cnn, washington. >> let's bring in cnn international reporter maeve reston. she's been investigating carson's story for more than a month. let's also bring back dana brash. maeve, tell us this investigation. carson said he had this pathological violence and what his childhood friends say? >> well, we went out to find these people in detroit. we went through the yearbooks. we called many of his classmates. i found his close friends through every period of his life. and the person he describes in the anecdotes on the campaign trail as leading up to this religious epiphany that he had cannot remember any episodes of violence involving dr. carson. they describe him as meek, quiet. someone who would never defy his mother's orders to cross the street. so it's really just raised a lot of questions about these

stories. we are still are looking for this jerry and bob that he describes. but we've contacted all of the jerries and bobs that we could in his class. and still have not been able to find anyone who is part of these incidents or was involved in them. and we have not been able to find any eyewitnesses to them. >> maeve, respect the gum shoeing, but if we might. let me go to dana bash. dana, this is a story he's been telling for a long time, before he had any presidential aspirations, why would you want to predict yourself as a thug, if you were in his situation? and why would you expect people who now have to deal some ownership of his success to throw him under the bus? >> well, if you listen to the way he describes his story, it's not just that he was a thug. he talks about the fact that he was a kid with issues that he, you know, he got over. it's part of the story that he tells on how to explain what it was like for him in the

innercity. as he calls it the mean streets of detroit. and how he got from there to where he is now. so, i think that's certainly the answer to that question about why. maeve's reporting actually there in detroit with his classmates, with his friends and people who knew him, you know, obviously, tell a different story. but it still leaves a question mark at the end of the story looking for the people which i think is fascinating. >> so, maeve, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. it just means that you can't find anybody who was connected to him that remembers this side of him. i mean, what's your take-away, after you've done all of these interviews with people in the past? >> well, i think it raises a lot of questions about the stories that he's told. and why his campaign won't put forward the people that he says were involved. in these incidents. the other important point is that this is at the crux of his

appeal to evangelical voters. this violent, angry, pathological temper. he said he went into a bathroom and prayed for many hours. and spoke to god directly and that god intervenes and essentially you know, helped him never to have a violent incident again. so when you're vetting presidential candidates, you want to talk to them about temperament and who these people have been at different points in their life. and i think that's a really important part of his story. >> let's move on to your interview with donald trump. because donald trump was talking about ben carson and different reasons why he feels he should be disqualified as president. let's play a snippet of your interview. >> you were questioning ben carson's aptitude to be president. what do you mean about that? >> aptitude to do what you have to do. we have to take back from china, japan, india. we've lost everything in this

country. >> we've heard him say that a few times. he doesn't think ben carson could negotiate a deal or any other deal for that matter. >> that's right. that's the first time we've heard him talk about in such a fundamental way about carson's personality and demeanor. we've heard him call him low energy and so forth. saying he doesn't the aptitude. he doesn't have the ability in his dna to do that. actually the flip side of what maeve was talking about when it comes to carson's personality. why he has such an appeal among so much potential republican and primary caucus voters. it is because he is calm, he is cool, he has found god. and trump, as we were talking about with these latest polls show more and more that carson is the biggest threat right now to trump. particularly in iowa. that's why he's obviously going after carson in a more fundamental way.

>> look, this is what works for donald trump, also, maeve. the tactics that he has. there's a legitimate criticism of him. but he doesn't have the temperament, that he's never made a deal like this. so, he's turning a negative about himself into a positive and redirecting it to carson. remember us chasing his finances, what he's worth, how responsible he's been. now he's using that against rubio. what do you see in this? >> well, i mean, certainly, donald trump has opened himself up to a lost attacks. you know, all of us out here covering the presidential race are vetting all of these candidates going through and parsing every aspect of the stories from rubio's finances to trump's deals that he's made. and are probably going to learn a lot more about them going forward. that will be the point at which voters will have to decide who they feel most comfortable with, sitting in the oval office. having their finger on the nuclear controls.

>> dana, you talking to marco rubio about his response of people going after his finances. what does he say to you? >> he says there's no there there. and the issue at hand right now is the idea that he used a party credit card, a republican party credit card, back in florida, when he was at the state house, handy put personal expenses on it. he argue, yes, he did that, that was a mistake, but he never charged the party for anything that he did personally. and that he's going to bring that out personally. now, certainly, trump is going after him for that. rubio is making it, you know, this is just proof we need somebody who's a real person in the real office. that really, really flies in the nation of what trump is saying. you need a really rich guy, because i know how to do that. this is going to be a real test of what voters like. >> senator rubio is getting stung by the fact that these

expenses weren't itemized by person. and you may have learned this that they didn't say his name, so it fueled a suspicion. but ultimately, he has given an accounting. and he says he's going to give more of it. >> that in particular there may not be no there there, but people have suspicions about whether he can manage his own money. >> but you got to have money to manage. >>. >> good point. up can go to cnn.com for a fuel report. back to the story, the deadly crash of a russian passenger plane, if a bomb was planted on the jetliner, how did it get past airport security? excellent looking below the surface, researching a hunch... and making a decision you are type e*.

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new u.s. intelligence suggests that isis or an affiliate may have planted a

bomb on that russian jet that crashed in the sinai peninsula. there's speculation it could have been an inside. mary schiavo joins us, department of transportation. so much changes overnight in the past 24 hour, mary. this morning, we learned that the russian officials had essentially granted the entire fleet of a-321s, while they run some additional safety checks. they're looking at the plane. they're looking at technical, which is a far cry from what they were saying just days ago. while everyone else, based on uk and american intelligence is saying it's looking likely that this could have been a bomb. this is a major disconnect. >> well, it could be a major disconnect or could just be sensible. at this point, we don't have evidence of whether it's evidence of a bomb or mechanical failure or exactly what occurred here. i think that the fleet should be

checked. and in particular, just so you can rule some things out. i mean, at this point, there's just no answers, grounding the fleet and checking the fleet, and most particularly, looking at the one plane that had the tail struck. and the plane, of course, went down. and ruling out that they did the test, or ruling in that that he did the test, rather, making sure that repair was good and held. of course, that takes one of the theories off the table. and that's what investigations are in air crash. removing theories one at a time, as you test them out. >> when you talk to investigators, they always say let the investigation run its course. bobby, we're hearing from the russian officials calling the uk and u.s. intelligence premature and speculative. the egyptians going even farther. the civil aviation minister says no evidence to support this bomb theory and don't jump to conclusions. are we -- when i say "we," the

general public -- are we not letting the investigators look at what happened here or too worried about the circumstances around the world? >> well, we've certainly come a long way in 48 hours. the first thought was this was terrorism. then there was a withdrawal from that. now we've come back to where we started. what gives me pause is the idea that the brits are beginning to talk about basically evacuating 15,000 british holiday makers and travelers. >> that speaks to something more. >> that speaks to something, it would appear because of signal chatter they're picking up, it would speak to something, you don't try to evacuate 15,000 people. that's a lot of cost, chaos. and you don't do that when the egyptian prime minister, president, is in the uk. that is deeply embarrassing for him. it would suggest that the british, at least they're on to something solid. >> and with the u.s. intelligence, mary, it's also said that perhaps someone at sharm el sheikh airport helped

get a bomb on the plane. when you think about all of the security at our airports, what good does it do me taking off my shoes and belt, yet, we have a giant gap in the cargo bay? meaning, you have people that have clearance to get thing on and off the plane. that's a huge vulnerability, is it not? >> exact list, michaela, and that's a vulnerability around the world, including in the united states. we have so many loopholes. for example, we let trusted cargo carriers, load carriers and cargo on without the full security. we allow people report to work at the airport. we make the pilots and flight attendants go through security and yet we let people who work there completely report to work without scrutiny. after 9/11, i started saying it, others, too. every person, every time, that's how you guarantee that you have security, but we've carved out too many loopholes as does the

rest of the world. you really don't have every person, every time. >> bobby in terms of intention, there were at first, oh, no, simply don't have the sophistication. are we underselling, underestimating what they're capable of? >> we certainly underestimated the intention. they have not previously shown this kind of ambition. they've not tried something like this before. there's always a first time. is it a very sophisticated operation? we don't know that yet. it does not take a very large, very sophisticated bomb to bring down an airliner. if you know where to put it, if you have the moneys to put a bomb into a plane, then it does not have to be a very sophisticated device. i don't know enough, maybe mary does, about the levels of sharm el sheikh airport about what kind of security you have to go past. one thing is clear, they've never shown this desire to make

such a big target. that alone should give us thought that they're evolving into a more ambitious terrorist organization. >> and then asks the big questions were must be putting that f. we don't know definitively. our thanks to bobby ghosh and mary schiavo. >> the if, if, if, if how could it have happened, what could it mean for what happens here? is isis getting more sophisticated? are we doing everything possible to prevent more attacks? stay with us. those questions get answered.

( ♪ ) ♪ 100 days ♪ 100 nights ♪ to know a man's heart ♪ ♪ and a little more ♪ before ♪ he knows his own

♪ 100 days ♪ 100 nights ♪ to know a man's heart ♪

u.s. officials leaning towards the theory that isis was behind that russian plane crash in egypt last week. in rapid fire succession wednesday, intelligence emerging from britain, the u.s. and the middle east strongly suggesting a bomb was on board. russia, this morning saying any suggestion about this, though, is speculative at this point. british prime minister david cameron getting set to discuss

this with egypt's president this morning. a college student stabbing four on campus. police say the suspect entered the classroom with a large hunting knife, stabbing two students a contract worker and a staff member. the suspect tried to run off but was gunned down by police. the victims will be okay. meanwhile, a shoot-out with a rooftop gunman halted flights at san diego international airport, that is over. the suspect is now in custody. s.w.a.t. officers responded to a domestic violence complaint that colbert was reportedly holed up in his ex-girlfriend's apartment. at the scene, they were met with high ankle blasts. luckily, no injuries reported. watch this. the donald slamming ben carson. for his appearance on "snl" this weekend. apparently, we were never meant to see these. >> donald trump is hosting

"saturday night live" with musical guest sia, because of equal time rules with television, mr. trump can only speak for four seconds in this promo. >> let me just say this, ben carson is a complete and total loser. >> it turns out nbc accidentally posted the wrong videos. >> accidentally pulled up the wrong videos? >> yes, and they immediately pulled that clip offline, mr. doubting thomas. and it issued an apology, ben carson to grade school tactics. any other questions? >> no, ma'am. >> i believe if i accidentally put a video of you or mik on there, pulled it down quickly, i think i'd get beaten like an egg. what do you think? word that isis may have planted a bomb in that russian plane in egypt certainly has lots of security concerns in the front, not just with what

happened here but here at home. is this really isis capability, if they win at russia, might they go to the u.s.? brill bratton knows terrorism concerns and how to protect against it. he is here to tell us the realities. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough, but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened;

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digestive core.r so choose ultimate flora by renewlife. it has 30 billion probiotic cultures. feel lighter and more energized. ultimate flora. more power to your gut. we are following breaking news four this morning. word from u.s. officials that the russian plane brought down over egypt was probably taken down by a bomb. this is their language. planted by isis or an affiliate. this is their reckoning. what does this mean if it is true? what does this mean for you in the u.s.? our security preparations? is this a threat that they're aware of? meanwhile, there are accusations of the ferguson effect, another accusation, is that leading to higher rates across the country? we have the perfect person to

discuss all of this, new york city police commissioner bill bratton. thank you for being here. the basis of this is fuzzy until your work is often is. is this isis capable, as far as you know, of pulling something like this off? >> i think certainly that they are. isis has been very active in egypt, as we know. so their capabilities are growing. it's tends to be al qaeda, but isis is morphing in many different directions and morphing rapidly. >> sharm el sheikh and its airport are not like jfk, but is there something that steps have been taken? this is a threat that's been realized, this is something that we protect against? >> well, in terms of events that we're talking about this morning, the possible bombing of this plane, as to how that bomb got on the plane, they really don't know at this stage. was it a passenger who brought it on? was it a worker at the airport?

that will be part of the growing investigation. so that needs to be understood. let's face it, the world is changing and changing dramatically. this one certainly raises concerns very significantly. >> reflex is if they can do it there, they can do it here? is that it? >> it's europe, it's very tight. but when you have issues around terrorism. issues around turbulence in their government, then it's of significant concern. >> you have an atypical level depth into terrorism and what you've done not just now but in the past. does this smell right to you that they would have targeted russia because of what's going on with syria or the maybe the chechan connection? >> i think that would be the first speculation that they targeted the russian plane because of the russian

intervention with assad. that was my first thought, when began to be speculated it might be a bomb. i'll have my morning intelligence briefing later this morning. i get one each day from my counterterrorism intelligence people. i'll have a little more understanding of the latest information. but the idea of -- i think it would be more than just coincidence. that it was a russian plane. >> by logic, terrorism can take different forms. one is that it's the police right now that there's an environment against the police. it's being called the ferguson effect. do you believe there's a ferguson effect? >> the problem is we don't know. the fbi director, mr. comey, i attended a speech he gave in chicago last week. i had a private meeting with him. there were two points that he was trying to drive home. one was we just don't know with the surge in violence that many people are experiencing,

particularly in black communities, is that the result of depolicing in those cities? we don't know. he's also pushing for expansion of a reporting system that could be a significant improvement over the countersystem that we've had for 15 years the uci system. which would give us more information to help make more definitive decisions. the first part of it the anecdotal concern about the ferguson effect. what he's pushing for is the fbi's desire to have this more comprehensive reporting system which new york will be going to in the next several years. >> of course, you know you've been hearing from your men and women on the job that they do feel that people are more aggressive towards them. that people are coming up and antagonizing them to create incidents. to prove whether there's there

there in crime, governor christie made his case that it's worse than in most cases. >> homicides are up. that's the way bratton measured it under giuliani, but now that it's not good news under de blasio, he's measuring it differently. whatever. bill bratton is a good law enforcement guy but he works for a mayor whose tying their hands behind their back. >> politics aside -- >> politics -- >> i know. the homicide rate is up do you accept that? >> the news -- we just reported that. we're very transparent in our information. we're up above 22 homicides, i think. shootings are down. overall crime is down. this year, we'll have the safest crime year in the history of city. overall crime. homicides are up against last year's homicides, i got a kick out of governor christie's comments he was giving them the

other day from camden, new jersey which this year has seen a rise in homicides and crime in general. they're phenomenal young police chief over there doing a great job. but governor christie needs to stay focused on his state. he has more than his share of crime to deal with. as to his comments about mayor de blasio, mayor are de blasio is extraordinary strong in supporting me on open windows, policing quality of life. supports the concept to stop, question and frisk in the right amount. he has funded us, in a phenomenal way, in getting 1300 additional police officers this year. $125,000 in technology assistance. what more can a mayor do? more cops. he supports me on major policy issues. and what are theresults, time has shown. >> time is good. >> with my hands tied behind me or on top of my head, the mayor

is very supportive, very engaged. he's not intrusive in any way, what about this crime, what about that crime. he like myself gets notifications of every shooting, every murder. so, he stays aware. he does not, if you will, try to manipulate or control. >> appreciate you correcting the record, commissioner. so, we heard about isis and what's going on with the potential ferguson effect. there's a lost news this morning. let's get right to it. the plane, quote, may well have been downed by an explosive device. >> the egyptians also say there is no evidence at all of a bomb. >> this could be an inside operation. >> until they know why and how, they are not going to send any aircrafts into those particular areas. >> this was a carefully staged suicide. >> planting evidence here at the

crime scene to stage a homicide. >> gliniewicz committed the ultimate betrayal. >> i would go out to people with rocks. >> i was surprised when i read he tried to stab someone. i'm like, what. >> when you check his credit cards, take a look at what he's done with the republican party when he had access. >> people need know what they're talking about here. >> announcer: this is-n nd with chris cuomo, alisyn camarota and michaela pereira. good morning, everyone. pointing towards a bomb possibly from isis as the likely cause of last week's metrojet crash in egypt. this is a stunning shift after dismissing the possibility that isis or its affiliate had the means to bring down a plane. but online chatter causing u.s. officials to take a second look. >> russians are vehemently

denying. and with notoriously lacking support at the airport, egyptian are fighting back too. the egypt leadership in london there today. >> reporter: yeah, that's right, chris. the timing of this could not be any more awkward, you have the egyptian president abdel fattah el sisi who arrived yesterday afternoon. the british prime minister david cameron just held an emergency meeting. and we're hearing some highlights from that. firstly, he said he has spoken to president el sisi last night and will be speaking again today on what it leading the british to take this decision to indefinitely halt all flights to and from sharm el sheikh. he also said he plans to speak to president putin today, also giving more information about the intelligence behind that decision. and he finally said that he believes, while it cannot be

certain, that it is a bomb, it is more likely than not that it was a bomb. last night, we heard from foreign secretary philip hammond denouncing temporarily all flights to and from sharm el sheikh will be suspended until they get to exactly what happened and try to include security measures in that airport, chris. >> here's the question. is it too easy for the u.s. and british to blame isis for since they're saying there's no evidence that even the russians aren't getting it? >> reporter: well, chris, at stage, the u.s. and britain are being caution. it does not have the hallmarks of a typical attack. we haven't heard on isis' official media channels of a compelling claim of responsibility which is unusual. and indeed, it's unusual for them, this would be a first, trying to take down. or in this case, actually blowing up a civilian airliner.

i would say also important to remember, sinai is still very far from the hub of isis leadership, while militants have pledged to isis, it does not mean that they're necessarily coordinating attacks together. u.s. intelligence officials still examining all angles of this disaster. of pentagon correspondent barbara starr has more. >> good morning, to under score what clarissa said, u.s. officials very cautious, saying nothing is definitive. but this is a direction that they're looking at heavily. and a u.s. official telling cnn, and a quote directly, saying, quote, there is a definite feeling it was an explosive device la device plants in lug avenue or somewhere on the plane." why are they saying this? they have reason to believe,

they're not telling us what it is. this all happened at the sharm el sheikh airport. they're monitoring, isis, isis-affiliate chatter. all the chatter they can, looking at claims they believe potentially may be credible. and looking at the rise of civilian activity in recent weeks and months in the sinai peninsula. what does it add up to? not definitive, but certainly indications that you're now seeing the british government, the irish government and indeed the u.s. taking actions to warn their citizens to stay away from sharm el sheikh and sinai. >> barbara, thank you for the background. let's get more analysis. we want to bring in cnn national security commentator, mike rodgers, a former chair of the house intelligence committee. and david soucie, former fbi accident inspector. gentlemen, great to have you. you've heard the reporting from our correspondents.

so the u.s. and britain are leaning heavily it sounds in the direction that this was a bomb and likely planted by isis. egypt and russia are not going in that direction. what chatter is the u.s. hearing that egypt and russia are not? >> well, they've had two different motivations, alisyn to make those decisions. clearly, the russians don't want to give into the fact yet that there may have been a bomb planted on an airplane. they're going to hold on to that as long as they possibly can, until they get a level of certainty. same with egypt. they don't want people flying into an area like sharm el sheikh. there's two different reasons to come to this conclusion. i will tell you the brits and the americans, the irish, they're not going to take this decision lightly. when you combine the nonforensic evidence that david can talk about. but when you look at the flash where it was on the airplane from the satellite image, you see the chatter on the ground. they're looking at isis, alisyn,

i would not rule out other factions, including the muslim brotherhood actions that happened in a place like sharm el sheikh in the sinai to syria. >> before i get to david, mike, just one more thing, how do they know what chatter is legit? i mean, shortly after this, isis claimed responsibility. that's the easiest thing in the world to do. being in the intelligence community as you are, how do you know when someone claims responsibility, how much stock to put in that? >> well, everybody has a profile. and so, you can take the information, how it was delivered, who it was delivered by, and get a sense of the accuracy of that information. so, i think your reporter was talking about the fact that it didn't come through normal channels. that would be, you would immediately push down the accuracy of that information. saying we're going to have to more in order to believe that. what we're doing is looking at all of their chatter.

is there conversation that happened in places that we know that kind of conversation happened before and led to a truism, if will you. so, that's what they're doing. they're putting all of those pieces together and saying probably a little bit of hunch, but a lot of it is evidence in the sense they can confirm the streams of conversation and the accuracy of where that information is coming from, leads them to say, we've got a problem here. >> david, i know you're reserving judgment this morning that this was in fact a bomb. why do you have pause? >> well, as mike said, you know, there's a level of confidence in information. but my level of confidence comes from science and actual technical forensic evidence. and that's what i'm waiting to see. if you look at the videos, the investigators are onsite pointing arrows, those arrows are pointing to the point of fracture. that point of fracture is where the answer is. it's not in the black box or the recorder box in this instance. it's forensic evidence onsite. that's what they're looking at.

so far, they've said there's no evidence of a bomb. the fracture is much different with a bomb than it would be with a structural failure of some kind. >> that's interesting. so, david if this were a bomb, since that's what some in the intelligence community believe it is, how far would it be from sharm el sheikh airport to get a bomb on the plane? >> well, you know, there's a lot of vulnerabilities in literally every airport throughout the world. those vulnerabilities are mitigated by various security levels. those security levels are standardized across the international community and sharm el sheikh is one of those that meets those standards. there's people that do inspections. there's people not only from the international community and local aviation in egypt, very capable of doing these inspections in surveillance. they do that. every airport has a certain level. but is it easy to do? no, it's not easy to do. it would require someone from

the inside. that's what's frightening about this, we're saying we're accepting that they have infiltrated the system that is designed to prevent them from infiltrating. >> i appreciate, david, you putting the brakes on that and saying from what you see, you think it's structural. let me play what the british foreign secretary is saying this morning about this incident. >> it's a matter of public record that isil sinai have claimed that they have brought the aircraft down. as i said earlier, looking at the totality of the information that we have, we judge that there is a significant possibility that this could have been an explosive device. >> all right. so we're going to leave it there, gentlemen, because, again, as you can see officials in different countries are still reaching different conclusions. they just don't have enough information yet. we appreciate both of your

expertise. mike rogers, and david susie. and the national guard is on a hacking spree and that targeting e-mails and social media accounts of officials as well as american journalists and academics. it recently tied to the recent arrest of an iranian businessman namazi. they may have used this computer when they raided his home last month. released online by the government of new zealand, controversy here and congress almost sure to fall. there's no question president obama faces stiff opposition to the 11-nation pack, even from his own nation. the deal forces low wage nations and too many giveaways to

powerful lobbyists. congress is likely to take up the business early next year. donald trump releasing new radio campaign ads this morning. let's listen to one. >> donald trump learned the values of hard work, determination and faith at an early age. he went on to build one of the world's most iconic brands and companies which employs thousands of people. donald trump is running for president because politicians are all talk and no action. they will never make our country great again. >> so, that one-minute spot, just like that one, will run in three early voting states, iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. they'll run through the month of november. what's significant, this is the first time the billionaire is spending money on paid advertising since launching his bid. the community of fox lake illinois in a state of shock this morning after learning that joe gliniewicz, the cop they called g.i. joe wasn't who they thought he was. authorities say he carefully faked his own suicide, just as

investigators were uncovering alleged activity. now rumored that his widow and son are reportedly under investigation. >> this extensive investgation has concluded with an overwhelming amount of evidence that gliniewicz's death was a carefully staged suicide. >> reporter: the shocking announcement that lieutenant joe gliniewicz not only killed himself but staged an elaborate crime scene put to rest a two-month regulation. the ruse started with gliniewicz radioing to dispatch he was in pursuit of two black males. and then radio silence. his lifeless body would be found moments later. that's when hundreds of local state and federal law enforcement officers scoured the area, vowing to find and bring his killer to justice. >> investigators say lieutenant gliniewicz's plan included

planting evidence here at the crime scene to stage a homicide. the commander saying there was a trail of evidence. first, pepper spray. then a few feet away, a baton, then eyeglasses then a shell casing, all leading investigators to believe signs of struggle. >> reporter: the community had a simple question. why? it turns out investigators were zeer flowing on gliniewicz for what they now say were criminal acts spanning several years including laundering thousands from the fox lake youth explorer, a mentoring and using it for atravel. >> gliniewicz committed the ultimate betrayal. >> reporter: the paper trail extensive, so was the cover-up. investigators say gliniewicz deleted thousands of messages like this from back in june, quote, the 1600 undocumented, it was cash from boot camp so there is no check trailing to follow.

>> our investigation strongly indicates criminal activity on the part of at least two other individuals. >> reporter: investigators won't reveal who those individuals are. rosa flores, cnn, fox lake, illinois. with all the noise in the nation right now about police and community it just makes this even more egregious that this is indeed the case. >> yeah, look, this is a terribly troubling case, somehow less troubling when we thought there were three on the loose. a manhunt that evaporated and couldn't find any lead. >> leading back to the top story, doesn't it make you waiting the course of what we need to do? >> also good on the police force for investigating one of their own. >> one of their own. >> even though it would bring embarrassment not just on to him, but on the force as well.

but they ferreted it out. a u.s. and european intelligence suggests that isis may have brought down that russian jet. that would mean that asomeone at sharm el sheikh airport would have helped to plant a bomb on board. we're going to dig deeper into those theories. because we're changing. big things. small things. spur of the moment things. changes you'll notice. wherever you are in the world. sheraton.

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all right. so here's your head line. u.s. and british officials say intelligence suggests isis may have planted a bomb on that russian plane.

now, if true, the takedown of a jetliner would be the most significant terror attack since 9/11. if true. let's take a look at the means and motive and opportunity and maybe put some meat on the bones of why this is so hazy for right now. we have vice president for initiative and distinguished scholar, mr. aaron miller. simple analysis, i think it implies here in terms of ferreting it out early on. could isis have done this? >> i mean, i think an isis affiliate directed on its own could have. crude bomb, sharm el sheikh, it's not laguardia in terms of profile of security. isis is well regarded or could have pressured, bribed or intimidated any number of airport employees to do this. so, yeah, capacity and capability to shoot down the aircraft? no. crude device or perhaps sophisticated device, absolutely.

>> and we'll know if this is an explosive device. that's one of the signatures left that this kind of wreckage that you detect fairly early on if you want to look for it. then you goat motive. why would they do this? what's being offered, well, what russia is doing in syria. an understanding from people like you and others what they're not really doing in syria affects isis. but then you think the chechan connection. >> the russians are flying 800 sorties. they've got opposition to assad. they're hitting isis targets and other targets. could this have been an snont show isis' reach and demonstrate their behavior, a lot of people being killed in the air strikes -- absolutely. does it have the character so far of an isis operation? no. they've concentrated on building their caliphate on governing and shied away from targets like al

qaeda, the far enemy, the west, the united states. that's the problem here. could they be changing their tactics? they run a savage online media. they've dominated the profile for the last few days. look at what they've accomplished even if they didn't do this. i think frankly in the 24/7 media cycle, pressure to respond, i think we have to be careful and cautious. if you ask me, i'm a worse caser, i think there's a high probability this was an explosive device. >> to your point, the braggadocio of isis, why haven't they shown a video, why haven't they come out with a more strait demonstrative way of how and why, but the suggestion, where is it? >> it also raises the question, why would they do it. i mean, the russian, eliminating

opposition limits to assad. they haven't yet identified isis as the primary target. why would isis want to pick a fight right now with the russians? why would they want to put our president in the position. he's goinghammered. and he already is on the campaign trail. you see, mr. president, you identified this as a jv organization. what if this were a commercial airliner? i think it points out one problem, one obvious challenge, we're 14 years after 9/11. the single greatest threat to american national security remains the threat to commercial aviation. we haven't yet found a way. and i think it's going to be extremely difficult to hermetically seal the nation abroad or here at home against these kinds of attacks. it's a long war. and you've just seen maybe a very significant turn in escalation. >> and of course, valuable lives

were lost. in terms of a media perception if this had been god forbid a united airlines with americans on it, you can imagine what would be pushed for in this country now? >> no. and i think that's why you're going to see authorization again for military force piece of legislation. congress really doesn't want the responsibility for escalating. the ds are concerned we're on a slippery slope. the rs don't want to assume responsibility. they want to make this the president's problem. so that's also politicized. but again, chris, i think the reality of this is the generational character of this is the long war. fighting terrorism is like breathing. reality is, you can't stop it. without scaring ourselves to death, we're going to have to be a lot more effective. >> how long do you think it will take to know? >> as to whether or not this was -- i think within the next

week or so, after the forensics, the aviation experts get done. maybe they'll find pieces of a detonator. maybe they'll find residue of explosives. but i'm not sure they can sit on this one. it's not going to be like the malaysian airliner where we're waiting to find answers for weeks. i think it's going to come quickly. at some point, one of these groups will conclusively identify themselves as the responsive party if that was what it was. >> if that's what it was. thank you. >> we always appreciate his voice on these matters. for politics, as marco rubio climbs in the polls, his finances are being scrutinized. who is leading that charge? donald j. trump? what will be the impact be on the campaign. we have reporters who follow his campaign.

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an isis bomb now the primary suspect in the downing of a metrojet plane from egypt to russia last week. intelligence emerging from britain and the u.s. and middle

east strongly suggesting a bomb could have been on the plane. and isis may have had help inside of sharm el sheikh airport. russia saying it's speculative. and an investigation could take months. david cameron getting set to a meeting with egypt's president this morning. a clarification, apparently when he says death to america he does not mean it literally. ayatollah khomeini telling a group of students, the slogan does not mean death to americans. he said it means death to american policies and arrogance. a suspected gang member has been arrested for allegedly attacking american hero spencer stone. you remember stone? he was one of the guys who helped foil the paris train attack this summer. receiving awards from u.s. and iraq for his courage. stone had to get emergency

surgery when he was stabbed four times. the alleged attacker now facing attempted murder charges. this is quite a story. a boy who went missing when he was 5 years old. he was found alive in cleveland. julian hernandez is now 18. he was recently applying to colleges. a guidance counselor managed to uncover it in a database, bobby hernandez father, julian father is now facing. >> the most common is some -- still, these stories fascinate me. i'm actually surprised it's not get more coverage. as senator marco rubio pushes back against critics like donald trump who will question rubio's financial history, he's challenging reports that he

misused a republican party credit card. a writer for the miami herald. and jeff smith is a writer for the tampa bay times. it's great to have both of you have with us. i want to start with you, as you say, you've been following marco rubio's rise for the past five years. so what is so eyebrow raising about his personal finances and use of his credit card? >> well, this came up quite a bit when he was running for u.s. senate against charlie crist. he was sort of campaigning as a fresh face and anti-establishment candidate. he was successful but he was leading when the republican party was swimming in money. he was one of the legislators that had had essentially state party credit cards. and it turned out there were a lot of questionable expenses. lavish spending on these cards.

these legislators were supposed to pay the money back. it turned out when the herald and tampa bay times looked into marco rubio's he had not repaid the money. he had to repay the party. >> okay but he repaid the party. patricia, help me understand. i have a company credit card. if i put a personal charge on there, i repay my company. how is this any different from what marco rubio did? >> well, understand that it happened at a time when the republican party was favoring one of its worst crises in decades. so it wasn't just senator rubio who had a credit card situation. statements were coming out for several party leaders. and what's important now is to clarify that, like adam said, rubio wasn't paying back the monthly expenses. there was one period for six months in 2007 where he didn't make any payments for some of his personal expenses. so it's just a matter of

sloppiness. granted he has said he's not been great at bookkeeping. but the question is, if voters are going to care about that now. now, they didn't in the senate race 2010. >> it's not just sloppiness. adam, he's made this case, i'm a public servant. i don't make much money. i have children in a private school. i'm trying to save for their college. i have a mortgage. he's sort of making the same case that many americans face. in terms of what he's now facing, let me play what he told our dana bash about these accusations. >> it's a charge card, it's american express, every month i would get a bill, something on it that's personal, i would pay it. >> in case you couldn't hear that, he says if there was anything personal, he said i would pay it, i'd review my bill. the party didn't have to pay for it. i mean, what jumps out at you that is so wrong with what he's done? >> well, i think you're right.

i think a lot of people can relate to somebody who struggles to pay their finances. who doesn't always dot every i or cross every t when they're doing their household spending. but in the case of rubio, and some of these others most cannot relate to routinely spending $1,000 at ruth chris steakhouse, chock it up to party expense where they can hire limousines. where if they get their car at a business function, that they can charge their business to pay for it. and there are quite a few of these records that have not come out. this is one of the things that's new that the marco rubio campaign realizes this could be a headache and a fresh face and change from politics in the past. they're going to release some of these ordinary records that will which have problems on them, they acknowledge that. >> patricia, as you know, donald trump has been going after marco

rubio saying he can't manage his own finances. jeb bush had an opportunity to go after marco rubio. he didn't take the bait. he said that's four guys. he's still going after marco rubio for his voting record for being absentee in the senate. jeb bush isn't going after it. is there anything in your reporting that suggests that somehow he has broken the rules? what adam is saying, yes, he may have had lavish expenses but those are the rules. he was allowed to go to ruth chris steakhouse. where do the broken rules come in? >> it wasn't until that came out from the senate campaign that we were able to campaign, my colleagues were, with his office spending in the florida house of representatives. and for example, there had been double-billed flights to the republican party of florida and to the taxpayers of florida. and senator rubio had to pay those back. he did. but he would not have been able to track that without the records. so, it's just a question of waiting for these records to

come out. and frankly, wondering why it took this long for them to be made public considering, you know, he's wanted to run for president for a while. he probably knew this was going to come back. as for governor bush, he may have tried to stay away from it, but he did tell reporters that this was fair game. so the bush allies are certainly interested in trying to land any punch they can't against senator rubio, as rubio is moving up in the polls. this is one of the places they're hoping to do damage. but again, we don't know until we see the records that we don't have. >> patricia, adam -- very quickly. >> i was just going to say, your business credit card, one example of yours -- marco rubio acknowledged he accidentally used his party card to pay for pavings for his house. if that's something that you can see yourself easily doing, then you'll excuse that.

if that's something that uses a credit card and you can't imagine using it for house work, then your eyebrows will be raised. >> thanks for sharing your reporting for us. adam, patricia, thank you. >> she's got a credit card. how many cards? >> she admitted she puts personal expenses on -- >> i'm paying them back. >> but i have not repaved my driveway yet. >> that's what you say. your driveway is like glass, by the way. another political story this morning, he says the gop was conspireing to take down hillary clinton over benghazi now he's saying there's also a conspiracy over prescription drug prices. congressman elijah coummings here.

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fresh off the battle against republicans in the benghazi committee, congressman elijah cummings is taking on a new fight against skyrocketing drug prescription prices.

congressman, good to have you on "new day." it comes as a sober moment, this news in the head line about u.s. and english intelligence officials being concerned that isis may have planted a bomb on a russian plane? does that smell right to you? what is your reaction to this? >> i think the jury's still out, assuming that's true, it's a major problem. i think we've got to contain isis. and if they did that, again, that's just another indication that this is a group has no conscience, and they will do anything to bring terror to the world. so i'm hopeful that we'll get to the bottom of it. >> respect the wait and see attitude. it's certainly warranted on this situation. we'll stay on that story. let's go to the matters at hand. you were have vocal on that benghazi issue there on what you

thought were an unfair line of questioning. were you moved by anything that came out of it that made other members feel vindicated in their efforts? >> i was moved when mr. gawde said at the end of the hearing that we had not found out anything when we spend $5 million on the investigation. that's just with our committee. and $14 million that the state department has spent answering subpoenas, yeah, that's quite a bit of money. by the way, that's taxpayer money. so, you know, that was very interesting. but the other thing that i was impressed with is secretary clinton, i thought she answered the questions forthrightly. and after 11 hours, 11 hours of questioning, i thought she ended up well. >> the stamina was certainly commented on. two big headlines that came out were the access of sidney

blumenthal. and of course, the switching of stories, as it was described. immediately after the actual tragedy where one thing was then said by the then secretary to friends and family and another said to the american people. your reckoning of those? >> chris, i was completely satisfied with her answers. i was familiar with all of the documents, the many transcripts in our dealings. the information was very fluid during those course of days, immediately after this terrorist act. and, again, she was acting on information that she'd had at the moment. and it's interesting that one of the documents that they pulled was the one where she was talking to her daughter in an e-mail. again, this was a document that had been marked easily personal. but she turned it over anyway. and again, she was acting on the information that she had at that

moment. the cia was giving her different scenarios. and so, i thought -- i felt comfortable with her answer. and i thought she did a good job. >> on the other topic, prescription drug prices, who is bilking my prescription drug prices and why, in your opinion? >> you've got some people, some companies that are buying up drugs. and these drugs are usually drugs that don't have a lot of competition. and they're buying them up. and then what they do, they get rid of a lot of employees, they don't do any research and development. then they jack up the prices. and they do it because they can do it. and it's about greed. a lot of people, when they go to the pharmacist, they think it's the pharmacist's fault. or the drugstore chains, well, it's not their fault. it's people like this fellow michael pearson of valiant who

takes a drug that addresses abnormal heart rhythm, and, chris, overnight, overnight, he raises the price from $215 to $1,346. imagine a relative of yours going into a store to buy a prescription and then finds out it's five times the cost. and it's pure greed. by the way, some breaking news for you, i met just yesterday with chairman chaifetz of the oversight government reform committee, he's agreed to now bring in mr. cerille and mr. pearson. i mentioned pearson, but cerelli jacked up the price of a drug that helps with the immune system, hiv and cancer patients.

he jacked that up, chris, listen from $13.50 to $750 overnight. >> here's why they say they do it. two points for pushback. one, they charge what the market mr. be will bear, especially what they call orphan drugs and drugs that don't have as wide an application in the populous. they're very expensive to produce. and just like everything else, supply and demand. that's the first point of pushback. >> the problem with that, buying them from companies, for example, they were selling them for $13.50, they were producing it and making a profit. the company that had it before. so why are you going to move from $13.50 to $750? chris, i can hardly wait to have mr. cerelli in front of our

committee, so he can explain to the american people exactly why he's raising the prices like that. and by the way, the money that is made off of these drugs, under those circumstances, i ask blood money. you know why? because people cannot afford those drugs. and people are literally dying. >> well, we look forward to the hearing. and of course, a lot of these practices, you know, from the consumer field will say this has been going on for a while. it's demanded government attention. let's see what happens now. congressman cummings, appreciate you coming on "new day." we'll stay on this story. >> michaela. well, it appears donald trump is at it again. >> -- complete and total loser. >> that's leaking nbc footage making the rounds. ben carson is now firing back. what he has to say ahead.

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well the presidential candidates continue to pay dividends for late night la laughs. here is what you missed if you are sleeping. >> donald trump is hosting

saturday night live this week. and because of equal time rules for television mr. trump can only speak for four seconds in this promo. >> so let me just say this. ben carson is a complete and total loser. >> okay. actually what happened there was nbc obviously donald trump is about to be on snl. this was a video they recorded that they recorded that got leaked by accident. you are suspect on that. >> seriously is this. >> nbc quickly yanked the clip. but likely the damage was already done. somebody who wasn't laughing? >> ever. >> ben carson. >> i discovered when i was in grade school that those tactics really are for grade school. and i've gone far beyond that now. >> respected. >> nbc for its part has issued an apology for the mistake. >> you don't -- >> if you watch snl and he's not making fun of carson then you know that's not supposed to be

in there. >> i don't believe that something like that gets mistakenly put out there. it is just hard to believe. am i wrong? >> as we were saying here is some real late night comedy that was intentionally broadcast. here is what you missed. >> no matter how tough it gets don't count jeb out. because as he explained, he is a fighter. >> talk about your resilience because some people don't think you know how to fight. >> they don't know me. they don't know me. i eat nails when i wake up. and then i have breakfast. >> yes. jeb eats nails when he wakes up. and i believe him. aim still running for president? >> ben carson actually admitted to falling asleep several times

driving his car in one of his book. he started taking ubers to be safe but his drivers kept falling asleep listening to him talk. >> the nail biting that was hilarious. >> colbert won that one. >> yeah he did. >> that was funny. i think i eat nails for breakfast. >> but if you do it beforehand ush also macho. >> they don't know me. >> that is your tease. >> oh thank you. the latest on our top story. this is the big head line this morning. you are seeing it on your screen right now. was it a bomb? and was it planted by isis on that russian jet that took down 224 people? the question is why do we think so? why are people still unhsure?

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call now likely that a bomb brought down the plane. >> likely that isis is behind it. >> would be the most significant terror attack since 9/11. >> this certainly raises concerns. very significant. >> marco rubio has a disaster on

his finances. >> bottom line people need to understand is this was an american express card. if there were personal expenses on there i paid them directly. >> doing much matuuch better. what do you say? >> all i know is i'm number one. >> his calm demeanor was carved out after a violent past. >> i was surprised when i read he tried to stab someone. what? >> good morning. welcome to your "new day." a suspected isis bomb now the primary focus in last week's metro jet disaster in egypt. intelligence in u.s., britain and the middle east now suggesting the terror group managed to get a bomb on board. perhaps even with help from inside the airport but remember this is still early and unconfirmed. >> online chatter may change thinking. this morning the russians and

egyptians are pushing back against the bomb theory. cnn's coverage around the world begins with cnn's national correspondent clarissa ward in london. where britain's prime minister is meeting with egypt's president this morning. >> reporter: the timing of this really could not be more awkward. moments ago egyptian president walked in greeted by the prime minister. this is supposed to be a three day state visit that was going to focus on issues like trade and security. obviously topping the agenda knew is the british government's decision to temporarily suspend all flights to and from sharm el sheikh. the prime minister made some comments. he said he was going to speak to president putin of russia to give more details and explanations for the british government's decision to temporarily halt all of these flights. he said he had already spoken to

president sisi and that he would be talking to them again. and while he also said it is not certain that the plane was brought down by a bomb, he said it was quote, more likely than not. he would not be drawn on questions as to whether or not isis is behind the bombing if indeed it is a bombing. but certainly we expect to hear more throughout the day. >> thank you so much for that claris clarissa. so what else does u.s. intelligence have to say? barbara starr with more from the pentagon. >> well the u.s. was quickly able to rule out a missile strike against the plane. there was no radar or imagery technical data to support the launch of a missile. but over the last several days as they continue to look at the intelligence, u.s. officials very much saying it suggests that a bomb may have been involved. one u.s. official telling cnn -- and i want to quote. "there is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere on the

plane." that of course pointing intelligence services from washington to london to look at the security surrounding the sharm el sheikh airport. what we do know is that u.s. intelligence is looking at isis and isis affiliate chatter. not the public claims that have been out there but some chatter that the intelligence services monitor regularly. also looking at what had been the rise of militant and isis-related activity in sinai over the last weeks and months. all of it putting the picture together. but still very important to say no absolute final decision on this. >> but they are certainly going pretty far down the road and i know it is not an easy job. thank you. we'll check back in a little bit. so if a bomb did get on board was it'sis expertise or just shoddy security? we have cnn's aaron mcclof lin

live. more on the security situation there. what are you learning? >> reporter: we're hearing the strong denial from egyptian authorities this morning. they say there is no evidence of a bomb. at the same time a spokesperson for the egyptian president saying it is too soon to draw conclusions but we have heard in a statement ahead of the civil aviation authority saying the following. "regarding the hypothesis of being brought down the plane through an internal explosion, the investigation committee has not found any evidence or data that would confirm this hypothesis." now that investigative committee very much an international effort comprised of investigators from germany, france, ireland, russia. led by jepegypt. a french source saying yesterday it was too soon to draw any conclusions from the technical portion of the investigation. that really centering right now

on the black boxes. a cockpit voice recorder damaged could take a while to analyze. and this entire investigation could take months to get definitive answers. >> thanks so much for all of that background. let's bring in cnn chief international correspondent christiane amanpour. >> the foreign minister who is here with president sisi right now in number 10 downing street for this rather tense meeting between sisi and david cameron. and he told us it was premature to hold or delay or suspend these flights pending any full investigation. and as you know both the egyptians and the russians from the presidency itself have completely said that it was propaganda. any notion that this could have

been linked to terrorists. and there are clear political reasons for them saying that. obviously the russians don't want to know about blowback if it is that for their action in syria. the egyptians don't want people to think that they have an insecure facility in sharm el sheikh. and their tourist industry might be harmed. that is one of the first things the foreign minister said to me. and remember 900,000 british tourists go to sharm el sheikh every single year. and now the british secretary is saying that what they have heard is chatter as barbara starr has been talking about and the intelligence community telling them what they think may have happened. and british foreign secretary today saying there is significant possibility it could have been isisist itself, as isis claimed from the beginning. >> you have pointed out perfectly the egyptians have that vested interest in this not having been a bomb. it would hurt tourism and suggest that security at sharm el sheikh is terrible. so given that the u.s. and the

brits believe that there is chatter that has led intelligence officials to believe that it was a bomb and possibly isis, how can the egyptians dispute that? >> well, of course the full investigation is not complete yet. and they are hanging on to that taking place and being completed. but right now the foreign secretary phillip hammond had said our response is in two parts. first we have a duty of care to our citizens. there are right now some 20,000 british citizens in sharm el sheikh trying to get out. they have sent extra security and they have extra egyptian security to make sure that the planes they will put on for those british citizens to get back home and totally secured and absolutely safe. and once those citizens are out of sharm el sheikh they will reassess pending the ongoing investigation. so there are two parts of the british act of this. most importantly the notion of blowback for russia's involvement in syria is a hot

possibility. and a live possibility. and that's really important to digest and understand. and the notion that isis and its sinai affiliate is active and potentially capable of doing this kind of thing in the sigh nooi and in sharm el sheikh which is a global tourist hot spot. and i can't remember a time since lockerby that a bomb on a civilian airliner, if this turns out to be the full evidence and the case has brought down a civilian airliner like this. >> you point out rightly that the investigation is far from complete. weave had some of our experts on "new day" in the past 48 hours who expressed concern that will be transparency in the investigation done by the egyptians and the russians because of those very interests that you are talking about. what do you think about their investigations going forward? >> well look. i think people have legitimate worries on the other hand it is

not just as far as the -- what we're being told publicly. we're also being told that a group of investigators from countries such as, you know, britain, ireland and germany even i think. there are international investigators as well. but yes, i mean, let's see what the result of the talks are between prime minister cameron and president sisi could not come at the more important moment. face to face. they have to look each other in the eye and decide whether or not this is going to be fully investigated to the maximum extent of the law and investigative powers and to come out with a transparent report. because everything depends on this. egypt's tourist industry. the safety of tourists going there. as i said so many brits but so many russians. russians are the second biggest group of tourists in sharm el sheikh in egypt these days. >> if it does -- if the investigative lines lead to isis having been behind that, this is a game changer.

this puts isis into a different category than what intelligence officials thought they were capable of. >> well i think it does. isis immediately claimed responsibility. and people were rightly skeptical. until they could have more information about what was going on in the area where, you know, they tried to eavesdrop on whatever chatter or whatever it is that leads them down a certain path. as yet as barbara and others keep pointing out we don't know the full extent of the evidence and we haven't really been told it. but isis in its latest claim last night said that it was us. we had help. and in the fullness of time we will describe how it happened. so, you know, we'll wait to see whether that in fact comes true. but, you know, as the british ambassador told me last night live on our air, when the british government says that they have a significant worry, that they are immediately halting flights in and out of sharm el sheikh.

quote, we do not take this step lightly. >> thanks so much for sharing with us. we always appreciate it. to politics where the republican nomination continues to tighten. trump holding the top spot by a slim margin in the latest poll. he's holding a three point lead over ben carson with marco rubio moving into the tie for third. after allegations he use tad business credit card for personal expenses. >> that is coming as we have yet another poll. national poll, that shows both donald trump and ben carson are the men pretty far out at the top of the heap. 26% for trump. 23% for carson. pretty much virtually unchanged from october with everybody else far below. but here in new hampshire

michaela, marco rubio has jumped significantly. and that is perhaps why donald trump is going after him on what you just mentioned. questions about his finance, a credit card he used in florida. listen to what trump said and then what rubio said when i asked him. >> marco rubio has a disaster on his finances. a disaster on his credit cards. >> bottom line is this is an american express. if there were personal expenses on there i paid them directly to american express at the time. if they were political, the republican party paid them. >> and rubio told me that he is going to release publicly as soon as he can the credit cards statements to show that he did nothing wrong. but chris, donald trump is not letting go on this. he's hoping that this is his new low energy for bush or low energy for carson that he keeps repeating over and over that rubio has a problem with his finances that that is going to

seep in to narrative. >> these tactics have worked for trump in the past. it is somewhat ironic that he's going after rubio for spend given the criticisms of trump and a lot of his casinos. other political news, bush 41, slamming two of bush 43's most trusted as vierzs in a new book. told his biographer that dick cheney as vice president quote, built his own empire inside the white house and asserted too much quote hard line influence about donald rumsfeld, his son's secretary defense. the elder bush says he was, quote, arrogant and served the president badly. the book due out next week. >> well a california student goes on a stabbing spree on a college campus outside san francisco. investigators now trying to determine a motive. this happened at uc merced on

wednesday. the suspect tried to run off but was gunned down by police. the victims are all expected to be okay. >> rising country star stoul the show last night with a little help from j.t. justin timberlake was channelling his old tennessee roots. stapleton snagged several awards including new artist of the year and best album. other big winners of the night. miranda lambert for best female vocalist and little big town. are you a country music fan? >> i do like country music. >> how about you? >> i go through phases. i don't seek it out but sometimes when i'm in the garage or sometimes when i'm fishing it finds its way in.

a lot is folk music. italians like the folk music. justin timberlake. the most talented boy band music ever? >> i thought you were going to say the most talented person ever. >> blinded by looks or no, this is straight talent assessment. >> straight talent. >> she brings bringing sexky back every day. >> ben carson admits he has a violent past. could that violent past be engineered to get him to the white house? why would he do that? we take a look. you decide. inthe mid-size van, from mercedes-benz. it's got small-ability and big-ability. towing-ability and stowing-ability.

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for your free home care planning guide. we haven't really seen dr. ben carson fired up. we spoke with folks who knew him back in the day to find out the real story. cnn washington correspondent joe johns has that. >> reporter: ben carson's quiet dignified approach is a big part of his appeal. but he says his calm demeanor was carved out of a violent past. >> as a teenager i would go out to people with rocks and bricks and baseball bats and hammers. >> carson wrote about striking a schoolmate in the face with a combination lock, nearly punching his mother. smashing his face with a rock. carson said he also tried to kill a friend identified as bob in a disagreement over the

radio. he describes his temper has pathological. a disease that made him totally irrational. i. >> i had a large camping night. i tried to stap him. and fortunately under his clothing he had a large metal belt buckle. can and the knife blade struck with such force that it broke. >> it was he says a pivotal point in carson's life. depicted in a that tv movie. >> benny, what did you do? but then an epiphany. carson said he quelled his anger with prayer. >> i locked myself in a bathroom and contemplated my life and realized i would never realize

dream of becoming a physician with a temper like that. i never had another angry outburst since that day. >> but that early picture of violence is not recognizable to some who grew up with carson. >> i was shocked. i was surprised because he was just -- you know, he was quiet and calm. >> cnn reporter s maeve reston and scott glover tracked down neighbors. >> i was really surprised when i read he tried to stab someone. like what? >> does it fit with the guy you knew? that kind of activity. >> no. >> the campaign has refused repeated requests to help find victims only by first name. cnn has been i unable to locate witnesses or victims. >> i associate him with a lot of things but never stooping to the

level of a common street thug. a i was a little surprised by it. >> timothy mcdaniels said he was one of carson's closest childhood friends. he says he raise it after the book came out. >> he said he was just too embarrassed to even talk about it. i was surprised at some of the things he said but, you know, he said them honestly. and i believed everything he told me. >> joe johns, cnn washington. >> joining us now cnn national political reporter maeve reston. she began investigating over a month ago. let's also bring back cnn chief political correspondent dana bash. maeve, you gum shoed it. what did you find? >> well we set out to find the victims that dr. carson had talked about. obviously this is an important part of vetting any presidential candidate. when you are talking about episodes of this magnitude,

which could have been, you know, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder. we want to talk to these people about what happened, about carson's temper. and we called many classmates in detroit. we went to detroit and talked to neighbors. my colleague scott glover did. and none of them could recall any of these incidents. they couldn't refer us to bobs and jerrys who might have been involved. we talked to a number of bobs and jerrys. none said they were ever involved in an incident with him. in fact the portrait of the person they painted is someone who is shy, quiet. wouldn't defy his mother's order to not cross the street. so the person he drives in this pivotal part of his life is unrecognizable to these people. and i think it is important to note that this is a really key part of ben carson's appeal to the evangelical voters who have powered his rise, this tale of

god intervening when he's 14 and he praised and asked got to help him with his temper. and in that moment he says essentially god cures him of this and there is never another violent episode. >> it is interesting. what he wrote about in the book and we saw some of that in joe johns's piece. he punched a classmate in the face he said. threatened to attack his mother with a hammer. after an argument he tried to knife a friend. you saw that depicted in the movie. and then you heard from that friend who says i didn't know about you doing these things and saying these things and then he hid it from him in imembarrassment. >> the neighborhood we're talking about here that carson lived in for his early childhood years and his high school years, when you are talking about hitting people with bricks and bats and baseball bats you know all of these things, you would expect to find neighbors who would know about that.

this was a good middle class neighborhood where parents disciplined other children. everyone knew everyone. so it is just very surprising that we have not been able to find anyone who can verify these stories. >> also just counterintuitive. ordinarily candidates hide this kind of stuff. they are trying to keep you from finding the people because they don't want you to tell stories about them hitting in the face with bricks. this is the opposite. and suggests two things. one, what is the truth? but also what would the motive be to deceive here? >> even before ben carson -- well before ben carson decided to get into politics he was an iconic figure. not just in the black community but in this country because of his kind of rags to riches story. because of his story that he tells about what it was like growing up with his mother without any money and becoming this world renowned pediatric neurosurgeon.

so yes it is maybe counterintuitive to think that somebody would want to talk about these, sort of, skeletons in their closet. but those skeletons he is very proud of and that is why he talks about them a lot. because it helps to kind of paint the picture of who he has sold himself as. and it is part reason as maeve is saying, exactly right, part of the reason he has such a following because of his personal story. >> let's move onto the other side of the aisle and that is what's going on with the democrats. bernie sanders, some people believe is changing his tune about hillary clinton's e-mails. we all remember what he said during the debate. he said american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails and that got a huge applause -- >> you can't do a better bernie than that? >> i'm going to work on that. but yesterday he gave this interview to the wall street journal in which he says something entirely different. he says there there is an now.stigation going on right i did not say end the

investigation. that is silly. let the investigation proceed unimpeded. it sort of sounded like he said end the investigation, her e-mails were silly. now he seems to be digging in a little more. how do you see it? >> that was such a surprising moment in the debate. right? it was as though he was giving hillary clinton a pass on this piece of ammunition that all of her critics have used against her. and so i think now you see bernie sanders and his supporters coming back and saying hey wait a minute, let's focus on this. this is part of what people should be considering when they decide whether to support sanders or clinton. and he's saying let the investigation go forward, see where we end up and then decide from this. >> i'll give the senator a half step on this because he's been so demonstrative in the past. we need to hear him questions about it specifically and see what he is intending. >> don't you think this is an about face? >> absolutely. that's why i'm saying.

this is very unberniesque here. based on where he's been before. >> it is. after the debate i was talking to a bernie sanders source. i was part of the questioning team and sitting on the stage listening to him say this i thought this sounds like a canned response. like this is something he was preparing for. and it turns out that think didn't know he was going say that. it sort of happened impromptu. so that maybe does explain why now -- the result of that first of all, probably not a direct all but combined with the fact that hillary clinton did well in that debate bernie sanders is not doing that well. particularly here in new hampshire. this is his neighboring state. this is where he was soaring and that's come down a little bit. so maybe that is why oh my gosh he actually might be a real politician with real politicaled

a vieradvisors saying that mayb wasn't the best political move. and in four or five hours he's going to be here to formally become a candidate for new hampshire. >> -- you never neglect a negative. and that is what they were accusing bernie. we'll see what happens. in terms of the dr. ben carson stuff and his past you couldn't read into what the reporting reveals and does not ree re veal reveal at this point. >> -- and it appears isis could have help inside egypt's airport. how can that be combatted? "the year of spieth comes to a close...

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it is a matter of public record that isil sinai have claimed that they brought the aircraft down. as i said earlier, looking at the totality of the information we have we judge that there is a

significant possibility that this could have been an explosive device. >> that was british foreign secretary. he suggests that a bomb may have downed the russian plane. if true the takedown of that jet liner would be the most significant terror attack, experts say, since 9/11 on western interests. let's turn to robert pape at the university of chicago. great to have you here. i know you have been following this very closely. what theory do you most believe? >> i think it was most likely a bomb. and i think it was most like abomb by isis. it is important to understand that planes are so fragile that even a very small bomb, something the size of a grenade, something the size of a cell phone is more than enough to bring down an airliner. a small hole, a small explosion, when a plane is traveling so

fast at such high altitude can rip a hole in the fuselage. and then the wind pressure can do the rest to essentially disintegrate the plane. and pretty much -- >> until this moment intelligence experts had been saying they didn't think isis had the capability to do something like plant a bomb on a plane. so why now are we so certain that they could be doing it? >> well i'm not sure how we got the idea that there was a shoulder fired missile involved. isis never claimed from the beginning on saturday that it used a shoulder fired missile. that was a theory as far as i could tell floated by the russians. isis claims from the beginning and continues to claim they brought the plane down and they maintain they are not going to tell us how. if you read their statements closely. you will see they don't say they used a shoulder fired missile. they give the impression that they bombed the plane. and every bit of evidence that

we have from u.s. satellites, from the flight recorder that we have appears to confirm that in fact that is what happened. >> you study terrorism and terror tactics. you have for a long time. so this is a game changer? if isis, which we, you know, just a year ago saw as this rag tag small band of terrorists that couldn't do something international. if they were able to get a bomb on a plane, is this a game changer in terms of their strategy and how we see them? >> this is a major game changer because for over a year many people in the united states, politicians on the right and the left have been calling for pouring more military forces or doing more military against ice in iraq and syria. well the russians finally did that. and what we have seen is that the more military intervention occurs the more isis makes it a priority to kill civilians from

those states and we've already seen attacks against the french in paris. we've already seen attacks against the canadians in ottawa. and what we now see is that isis appears to have found a way to slip a bomb on a plane. and this should be a very important wake up call for people that have been complaining that we're not doing enough military. obama's strategy has been the right strategy, which is to contain and slowly roll back isis. it is actually working. and it is a strategy that doesn't provoke the group to kill hundreds of americans in retaliation. >> but professor, hold on a second. if they are bringing back commercial airlines with 224 passengers on board they hardly seem contained. you can't say that just because isis has said they are going to restalt for military intervention that you shouldn't do any more military intervention. >> the key issue is what provokes the group into bringing down civilian airliners. and what we can see over the

pattern of the group's attacks is that it is not just simply a matter of whether the groups have the capability. groups really do decide whether they want to invest the extra resources to attack certain targets. and they make that decision on the basis of who is their most important enemy. up until now isis's most important enemy has been the baghdad government or the government in syria. once russia intervened to prop up assad, suddenly russia became enemy number one. and within weeks what you see are the deaths of over 200 russian civilians. so my point is not that they are incapable of bringing them down. my point is that they almost always have some serious capability to kill westerners and to kill americans. what changes the outcome is whether they are truly motivated to do it. >> robert pape. thanks for sharing your years of

expertise. a situation we see consistently here in the u.s. and around the world is what we should do about mental health. well the first real federal legislation on this level since the sixties is getting some traction but also is kind of not getting traction. we're going to speak with a lawmaker behind the bill. he will make the case. he is representative tim murphy and we will test it ahead. you can't predict... the market. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your investments through good times and bad. for over 75 years, our clients have relied on us to bring our best thinking to their investments so in a variety of market conditions... you can feel confident... ...in our experience. call a t. rowe price retirement specialist or your advisor ...to see how we can help make the most of your retirement savings. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck.

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joint pain and damage... can go side by side. ask how enbrel can help relieve joint pain and help stop joint damage. enbrel, the number one rheumatologist-prescribed biologic. it is the thursday edition of the five things to know for your "new day" at number one. u.s. and british intelligence suggesting a isis inspired bomb brought down the plane last week. but the russians and egyptians pushing back. marco rubio denying allegations he used a republican party credit card to pay for percentage expen personal expenses. he's promised to release those statements soon.

>> and the elder bush told his biographer that cheney as vice president, quote, built his own empire inside the white house. >> investigators are trying to determine what prompted a stabbing spree at the campus. the suspect was gunned down by police. nbc now apologizing after accidentally releasing an snl promo clip calling ben carson quote, a complete loser. carson equated the attack to grade school antics. and remember you can get more visiting "new day" cnn.com. >> dealing with a mental illness certainly is tough. t one former w nba star is using her love for basketball to help others in despair. all part of "impact your world." >> once dubbed the female

michael jordan. she dominated basketball. on the court the focus of a champion. but off, she spent decades in what she calls a "mental prison." >> i was feeling like these extreme highs and lows. when you are the star of a team you tend to sweep things under the rug. >> the national alliance on mental illnesses says one in five live with a disorder but most don't seek treatment. >> ultimately you explode. >> she took a baseball bat to her ex-girlfriend's suv and shot out one of the windows. after a decade of being misdiagnosed she found out she was bipolar. she is now an advocate for mental health. >> i realize once i opened my mouth and said i struggle with this i realize a lot of people are going through same thing. >> i had the same size feet as the 12-year-old. my feet haven't grown. imagine that he has feet.

>> she started "mentally driven". >> i use basketball as the decoy. i brick them in and get them talking about emotions and feelings. by champion for cancer and mental health disease and we need to. it's effecting a lot of lives. >> impact your world is brought to you by suffraget. now playing in select theaters. >> they're half the human race. you can't stop us all. we will win.

>> 6

11 hours of debate last night on this helping families

and mental health crisis act. but it managed to pass in a house sub committee. the bill is to make for major reforms to mental health care that many say the system is flawed and needs to be changed. but why debate? why hasn't this happened already? critics say they are going take away from patients suffering mental illness and chill even more to forms of the hipaa laws. here are the bill's sponsor. co-chair of the congressional mental health caucus. open disclosure. we've been dialoguing about this bill for a long time. it seems like an objective good. it has its nay sayers. they do focus on the issue of privacy. that if you are to erode

it is a slippery slope. make the case. >> well it is absurd. look, the issue is when a parent is trying to find out why their son our daughter just tried to commit suicide or why they are having other problems, and doctors cannot even engage in any compassionate communication to tell family members what happened, why someone with skrits frenia is getting worse. that they may have diabetes. they may have hreart disease. we have closed the door so much that somehow the best a person can be is what they are. and that family cannot help. it's gone too far. all we're asking is it ability to have a passionate communication when the doctor and care giver when, when that person with serious mental illness is in this downward file of decay and often times in living in their own filth and

squaller. can't we find some way engaging the family back in. >> and when it comes to rights i go back to this point of adam lanza who did the shootings at sand hook, we talk about his rights to be sick? shouldn't we talk about the rights of those children to make it beyond kindergarten to go first grade? the people to feel safe in colorado or in california? we need to talk about the person's right to get well -- >> how would this bill stop someone like alanza. >> because it invests a lot of action, a lot of money in programs in identifying early on particularly in the phases of life when they are most at risk for serious mental illness. at age 14, 50% cases by 24, 75 orve75% of cases. the federal government has been spending billions in silly

programs that have nothing to do with serious mental illness. so it would do that. it would also allow two doctors to see someone in that same day. it is even absurd we have to argue that point. more hospital beds for those who are seriously mental ill. we have funding in there to handle the whole spectrum of issues but get out of areas of the behavioral wellness and more into the helping those who are ill. and this issue of being able to have some communication with the family member is very important. particularly given this idea. when you are dealing with someone with mental illness, such as schizophrenia or bipolar, their way of thinking is very different. it is not the same as talking to someone who is of sound mind. >> there are going to be people who are surprised to hear this bill is being held up. if anything it seems like politicians are blaming the mental health community too much for violence in this country. you know very well and you should know at home. representative tim murphy is not just a politician. he was a clinician.

he understand the area. he treats people. so of course the mentally ill are less likely to be perpetrators of crime than the rest of the population. more likely to be victims. we know. but it seems the political will is there to make a difference. we hear it every time there is a mass shooting but then this bill you keep calling me and saying i can't get my bill done. wheres the disconnect? >> i think people still want to block these issues. 83% of the american public say in order to stop o some of these shootings we need to talk about the mental health issues and not ju just guns. we recognize a person who is seriously mentally ill is 15 times less likely to be involved in act of violence if they are in treatment. as the. >> that is the if. if they are in treatment. >> and that means more treatment opportunities. and sometimes chris it really is a matter of providing those services. but in some cases you have to compel that person to be in treatment. that means sometimes in patient and sometimes outpatient

treatment. and that is another area too where people say well we shouldn't ever be coercing people into treatment. the navy yard shootings would never have happened if the people at the hospitals and the police who were involved with that perpetrator would have said this guy needs to get help. states like yours in new york has an excellent program for that. >> congressman. some say it is playing politics when you get involved with these bills but this seems like an objective need. let us know how the fight goes. >> thank you. >> we're going from what we need to do to change to, oh what a dose of the good stuff for you. stay with us. a new version. now they have lifestory. it literally lays out somebody's life, from birth to death. when i was using lifestory, i discovered my great grandmother. she went through a lot. two sons go to fight in world war ii. she lived through the depression. and she made it through all of that. here i am. just because she survived, and she kept going.

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good stuff. meet colin clark. 22 years old. he has down syndrome but this is so cool. he has a long dream of competitive body building. he works. check it out.

how did he get there? coaching. he could speak away to imitate trainer a. he would watch his routines. he didn't think gary was watching. but gary was. so he fired him. no. gary agreed to train colin completely gratis. that was a year and 60 pounds ago. >> oh great. >> look how good he looks. look at the symmetry. >> wow. >> and look how happy too. dedication. focus. amazing. well done. >> his competition is ten days from now. look him up online. gary good man for helping him out. you look awesome my man. get after it. >> time now for newsroom and carol costello. >> you too carol. give them a double biceps. >> there it is. >> newsroom starts now. good morning, i'm carol costello. thank you for joining me. the mystery deepens and the divisions grow in the investigation of thatsi