joining us on this veterans' day. we extend our deepest thanks to all the veterans for your sacrifice, service and the great gift you have given this country. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. thanks very much for joining us. we begin tonight with donald trump's promise to round up each and every one of the 11 million people in this country illegal with new specifics he laid out for doing it, a special deportation force he calls it and historical president that she says shows it can be done both effectively and humanely. mr. trump talking about it in milwaukee during the debate. >> let me just tell you that dwight eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him, i like ike, right? the expression. i like ike. moved 1 1.5 illegal immigrants out of this country. dwight eisenhower. you don't get nicer.

you don't get friendlier. they moved 11.5 million people out. we have no choice. we have no choice. >> people can and do differ on his assessment of the problem. for the solution, mass deportations and the belief it worked the last time around we got facts and tom foreman tonight is keeping them honest. >> reporter: spurring protest and spiking poll numbers, tough talk about illegal immigration put donald trump on the election map. >> they are bringing drugs. they are bringing crime. they are rapists. >> reporter: and now, he is praising a program whose official name considers what is currently considered an offensive slur, operation wet back. in 1954 this massive roundup of undocumented workers came after years of growing tension between the u.s. and mexico about competition for workers, the effect on wages and boarder security. >> my fellow citizens.

>> reporter: and while the eisenhower administration considered the program a success due to a sharp spike in apprehensions of mexicans, many modern historians like douglas brinkly do not. >> it was inhumane. it was abusive to mexicans that came into the united states at our request to work during world war ii. >> reporter: for starters it claimed over 1 million deportations and later analysis suggested a quarter million as farm jobs in the southwest continue drawing tens of thousands of new immigrants. humanitarian complaints were raised as deportations were sent to mexico in a slave ship. >> many of the mexicans that were rounded up had their heads shaved, many were beaten and abused. there is incidents in 1955 of mexicans that died in the desert because they were pushed out of the united states. >> reporter: indeed, that summer

88 people died of heat stroke in a single episode. no wonder the blow back to trump's ideas is strong. >> for the 11 million people, come on, folks, we all know you can't pick them up and ship them back across the boarder. it's a silly argument. it's not an adult argument. >> reporter: despite claims at the time ike's deportation plan was working, it was out of funding and shutting down, although the debate about it rages on more than a half century later. anderson? >> tom, thanks very much. that's the backdrop. let's talk about it. details joining us is co-chair and policy advisor sam clovis and anna navarro and as a jeb bush supporter and friend of marco rubio, maria is a democratic strategist. sam, great to have you on the program. is it mistake you believe for donald trump to invoke what president eisenhower did given

how controversial it remains in some quarters in the history of this country? >> i think there are a couple things just to comment on that. i think it's a starting point. starting point for the discussion on how we might go about the process of deporting the people that are here illegally. i think that's really what we ought to be talking about is the historical context of that. the program lasted from 1954 to 1962. it tapered off dramatically after the first two years and that was accurate in that report there, as well. then we started into the process of total revision there with the immigration and nationality act of 1965. that's a hard seller act, however you want to call it and that effectively changed the way we immigrated people into this country and we have a current law that the immigration reform and control act of 1986 which was funded robustly for about

three years had very dramatic impact on the amount of ill eeg immigration, 62,000 a year and then after the funding dried up and congress decided to abandon that program, as well, then we started to see a huge spike in the annual immigration -- illegal immigration into this country and a lot of this has come back to the -- >> sam -- >> don't have congress -- let me finish. we don't have the congressional will to enforce this or to look at various models that we have here. today's technology and with the way the media operates here, this whole notion that this would be done inhumanely is and would be ripping families out of their homes and separating fall -- families is utter nonsense and to stir up national reasoning and thinking how we would go about establishing the rule of law in this country again. >> right. maria, what about that? there is a lot of people in the

gop who say look, this has to be a nation of laws. these people are here illegally. you have to do something about it. what about this idea of deportation force? >> i think it's a ridiculously stupid idea, frankly, and if the gop continues to talk about this, they can say good-bye to any hope they have of getting to the white house in 2016, anderson. this is to main stream americans that understand how inhumane operation wet back was and who also understand the real solution actually lies in congress today. you had a bipartisan gang of eight senate bill that talked about the solution to this, which was to enforce our boarders, figure out a real way to have the workers come here that we need and then also to legalize those who have been here for years and years and years, anderson, who had children contributing to the

economy and these are the people that donald trump is going to essentially deport in, what, trains? is he going to turn this country into a gastapo state? it's not only unworkable but political suicide for republicans. >> these are your words, those are not donald trump's words. let's be very close on that. those are your words. those are not his. >> so what are his words, then? >> we -- but we -- right. but we don't need to be comparing -- just for argument sake, we don't need to compare to nthat. anna, jeb bush is criticalappro. you can't deny that a hard line approach to this issue resonates with a lot of primary voters. >> i don't deny that and i think it's what made donald trump very popular to begin with when he initially hit upon this top pick

when in his speech where he called mexicans rapists and went on about illegal immigration and since then, i think he's realized that the more he hits the topic, the more popular he becomes with the base and energizes supporters. what he saw last night and it's important to note, there is a wide gap, a deep skism within the republican party. certainly, there is a faction that believe and support what donald trump is saying but there is also a faction that believe what folks like marco rubio and jeb bush and john kasich are saying. i don't think it's fair to paint the entire gop with one broad brush. and let me just tell you, anderson, this afternoon, today is veteran's day and this afternoon i was walking through the vietnam memorial and there are so many names when you go through there that are hispanic and immigrant names and you have

to think to yourself and wonder how many of those kids might have been undocumented or the children of undocumented immigrants and yet, were willing to give their lives and serve this country and pay the ultimate sacrifice so we could live in freedom today. there is something so hurtful about the idea of this wet back operation. the term itself is offensive and hurtful and i think mr. trump is doing a lot of harm to the gop brand in the long run. i wish he would really watch his words. >> sam, i want to give you the final thought, are you concerned, though, about obviously there is a primary election but in a general election, hurting donald trump support among latino voters. david axle rod made the point about the need to get greater hispanic support. >> i appreciate anna's comments about veterans and if you notice on the lapel of my jacket today, i don't normally do this but i'm

wearing my command pilot wings and jump wings from my 25 years of service to the united states and the proudest years of my life and so i want to thank all of my fellow veterans out there and to go on to finish up this comment, i think what we're really at a point here is we have brought this top pick up since the launch of the trump campaign. and what we are now seeing and i thought last night was actually healthy because we actually had a very open and frank discussion on that stage about immigration in this country and i think that's really, really the point that ought to be made here is that there is, that we have the contrasting issues here, the rule of law and then whether or not we're going to establish the rule of law and enforce the laws that we have on the books and are there not mechanisms to establish the rule of law in the country as far as immigration is concerned. that's what we're after. that's what we're after here, reestablishment and rule of law in this country rather than

arbitrary executive orders. we have changed the law, circumvent the congress and undermine the constitution. i don't think anybody can argue with that. >> we all agree on the need of rule of law and secure boarders where we kidisagree, we're goin back to a horrific program that did nothing but hurt people. >> those are your words. >> those are my words and let me remind you, sam, you used to support rick perry that understood this well and supported the dream act. >> and even regan, many republican candidates talked about last night, regan passed the 1986 amnesty law. >> no, he did not. if you ask ronald reagan, if you remember, the two greatest often talked about the two greatest mistakes he made in his life was signing the abortion legislation in california and the 1986 immigration law. those were the two biggest political mistakes he made in

his career and that's documented and you can look it up. >> republicans continue to bring up his name -- >> appreciate it. we appreciate the discussion. good discussion. sam, as your point was made, last night it is a good discussion to have and one of the highlights of the debate certainly last night to get the different positions out there. sam clovis, appreciate it especially on this veterans day, maria and anna navarro. the name hillary clinton certainly did not. nearly all the candidates went after her last night as you might expect. which republican front runners would do best against her? we'll take a look closely at the numbers with john king on that. also ahead, what began with police take thing man to the hospital, ended up with him dead jolt after jolt with a taser as he plead with them to stop. the question is, why didn't they? p blah

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just with a little bit of information, you can take leaps and bounds. it's an awesome experience. . well, welcome back. the republican candidates certainly don't agree on everything, however n last night's debate, each and every one of them agreed on one thing or more, precisely, one person. >> if you look at foreign policy, every region on the world has gotten worse under her leadership. we abandoned the nation of israel. under her leadership. >> hillary clinton said that barack obama's policies get an a. really? wait this will you see what hillary clinton will do this to country and how she will drawn us in debt. >> she will be a disaster. >> hillary clinton is coming for your wallet, everybody. >> the worst secretary of state in the history of our country. >> the clinton presidency will corrode the character of this nation. >> we all agree hillary clinton is bad. >> hillary clinton embodies the

enkrois yes m. >> our military will continue to deteriorate. our veterans will not be cared for and no, mrs. clinton, that situation is not exaggerated. >> we wanted to look tonight how they would match up to hillary clinton in a general election. there is new polling and john king is breaking down by the numbers for us. john, if clinton is the democratic presidential nominee, how does she fair against the leading republican candidates? >> there are a number of different polls. generally look for a competitive general election. look at this, recently she beats trump quite handedly and beats trump more narrowly and nbc wall street journal beats trump again. the average of the last five or six, hillary clinton beats donald trump by five points. ben carson runs more competitive than donald trump. plus two, clinton wins in the poll and loses by ten to ben carson and it's a tie in the nbc

and wall street journal and if you average it, ben carson beats hillary clinton. marco rubio similar. plus five that's a statistical dead heat. you get the picture. very competitivcompetitive. rubio in a dead heat with hillary clinton right now and if you wonder, jeb bush poll is the same as marco rubio and hillary clinton fairs better against ted cruz plus ten in one poll and plus six if you average them out. look at the pictures. cruise and trump are weaker and rubio and carson competitive. >> digging deeper, what are the general election strengths and vulnerabilities? >> one of the reasons hillary clinton wants to wrap up the nomination early is she has weaknesses. let's look at one strength first, the gender gap. the first woman president. look at the numbers against trump. a huge gender gab. that's a huge trump lighty, a clinton asset. against dr. carson, plus 12 in one of the polls but actually breaks even with him in the poll

plus nine in the nbc wall street journal poll just for history, barack obama won the women's vote over mitt romney by 11. if you're hillary clinton and plus nine and plus 11 you think you should do better than barack obama did. while it's a strength, it's not as good of a strength or big as it should be. a weakness for hillary clinton, independe independent. yes, she beats donald trump pretty handedly but carson, hillary clinton loses by 25 points to ben carson among independents but if you look at the different poll numbers, she's losing to the republicans hillary clinton among independents. again, barack obama lost to mitt romney by five points. if you're looking at a deficit of 13-7, what you don't want to do is under perform barack obama against the republican. non-white voters, this say huge hillary clinton strength. among african americans, beat trumps by 89 and carson 86 and

nbc wall street journal rubio by 98. this is where president obama was with african americans. weakness here, this is where obama was where clinton runs against trump. they do better. hillary clinton beats them handily among latinos but president obama won by 44. if you're hillary clinton and looking at these numbers, you're good but would like to make them better, anderson. >> john, thanks very much. plenty to talk about with our panel which tonight include as guy which is probably wondering why that are dropping hillary clinton's name and not his, paul begala and amanda carpenter and communications director for ted cruz and jeffrey lord. paul, haven't heard from you since last night's debate. when you hear what john king lays out, do you worry about any of the numbers you see? >> no, it's too soon. what that polling shows is that dr. carson would be the post vulnerable candidates against

secretary clinton, maybe so. i don't mean disrespect. he's an i'm geese sieve man. he's really doing remarkably well among republicans now. i tend to be a skeptic he's going to be able to defeat hillary but beating her in the polls now, so be it. this is so, so early. we have to get on the track. i was struck last night. part of that was a package we had. clin there was a video, 40 times they named her and used the phrase middle class eight. we know their obsession. it's creepy in a stalker sort of way, maybe it's affection like junior high schoolboys that can't stop talking about her. >> to that point, doesn't that rally conservatives that want to come out to the polls? we seen dr. carson polling strongest against hillary clinton but in terms of motivating people to come out to vote, hillary clinton seems to be a big motivation. >> yeah, absolutely and makes sense to talk about her a lot.

she's the presumptive democratic nominee. it's ridiculous to think bernie sanders would over take her. she's going to be the nominee most likely. it makes sense to attack her and define her and look among the polls we see voters find her untrustworthy and has trouble with likability, honesty. these are really, really big, big deals. i don't know how you heal that over time. but that said, one thing that's interesting, we can look at head-to-head matchups and issues and looking at the republican debate and democratic debate, there is one saturday night although they won't get millions of viewers people have been tuning into the republican debate which says a lot but like we're living two different worlds. republican debates you talk about the economy, foreign policy, immigration and democrats talking about minimum wage, climate change. they don't matchup. i'm curious to see how a general election goes because we're having two entirely different conversations among republicans and democrats.

>> jeffrey, i mean for the criticism of donald trump or that trump levees at hillary clinton, he is polling, i mean, he has also to amanda's point, high negatives and is in someways just as controversial and polarizing. >> yeah, well, you know, it always pains me to find myself in agreement with my friend paul, however, he's absolutely correct it's way too soon here to be focussing on these polls in terms of the general election. i decided before 1979 poll that showed jimmy carter, in the new york times by the carter white house that shows jimmy carter beating ronald reagan something like 60 to 36% with pat the pollster for president carter saying the data was just overwhelmingly in favor of carter and they wouldn't wait to run against regan. so here we are, almost in december of the year before, you know, next november it is just way too soon to get into this

and by the time let's just say it is donald trump versus hillary clinton, then people are going to start to focus. they have negatives but with one choice to make, people are going to have to vote from one of them in a situation can change drastically. >> you know, paul, talking to amanda last night at 12:00 or 1:00 a.m., it was a late night for us all, i don't know how you got out of that. one of the things she said is she believes, you know, very possibly trump and carson will fade and we'll see, you know, one of these other candidates coming up to be the eventual actual nominee, perhaps. do you think that still is likely? history shows outsiders tend to fade generally there is a establishment candidate who becomes the nominee. >> well, in the post regan era, right, regan was the outsider and won the nomination and two

landslides. the republicans nominated the person that wins the establishment bracket. there is an outsider, sometimes p pat. it's not my party. it seems to me the all power is in the insurgent bracket. people republican establishment types we know in washington very excited about senator rubio and governor kasich and christie and bush, they don't add up to trump or carson. i do think, maybe they fade if they do. i believe this, not just sucking up to amanda. her old boss ted cruz is the guy i might bet on if i were seriously going to put money on it. he can ignite the outsider wing and maybe do enough with the few establishment people. >> you made his argument for him. >> i'm from texas and he steam rolled that state. he's really, really talented guy.

>> i want to throw something into the debate. last night we talked a lot about how republicans have to do more work to get the hispanic vote and i've been thinking today, if it does indeed come down to a cruz, rubio race you have two leading hispanics who will be able to carry a strong conservative message on immigration. that's never been tested among the republican party and i think the democrats going into this election can play the racial and gender identity cards. the republican party has more hispanics, women, blacks on the stage than ever before. it's a huge opportunity to change that game entirely. >> interesting point. >> and we'll have surprises. >> they have more minority women candidates than voters. that's the problem. >> amanda carpenter, jeffrey lord, paul begala. mrs. trump and how she's

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melania trump is standing by her husband's side as he moves to the top. a similar scene two weeks ago in the spin room. there she is again off her husband's shoulder. she's often seen but not so often heard. the question is what role is melania trump playing behind the scenes? randi kaye takes a look. >> reporter: super model turned super supporter to gop presidential candidate donald trump suddenly fielding questions in the post debate spin room. >> great evening, yes. just the way it was handled was very fair and elegant and fair questions and all about the economy and business and he's master at that. >> reporter: after months of keeping his third wife out of the spotlight, melania trump is at his side on the campaign trail and she's talking more than we've ever heard her before. in september, she did talk to ""people magazine"" sharing how when she and donald first met in

1998, she refused to give him her number, even though she thought donald did have quote sparkle. when "people magazine" interviewed melania trump, politics were off the table. i'm not ready to go political yet. that's his job and i'm supporting him. she told larry king she considers herself her husband's equal. >> you know, you need to know who you are and be strong and sport. >> reporter: melania once graced the cover of ""glamor magazine" her name is trademarked. she appeared in this aflac commercial. when asked by "people" about becoming a citizen, her response is it didn't even cross my mind to just stay here. i think people should follow the

law. if they do reach the white house, she would be the first foreign born first lady since john quincy adams wife born 200 years before melania trump. >> what else do we know about her? >> reporter: anderson, she enjoys fashion and plays tennis and does pilities and does work with the american red cross and they have a son, a 9-year-old. she does not have a full-time nanny. anderson, the question is what would her hobby be or what would her cause be if she were to become first lady? we heard donald trump on the campaign trail saying she would be a terrific first lady but hasn't answered that question. "people magazine" asked her and she said it's a long road ahead. i'll take this day by day, anderson. >> well, that's a wise answer. thanks very much. a 9-year-old boy gunned down

execution style has become another heartbreaking victim in chicago's south side gun violence epidemic. happens to be the focus of spike lee's film and to father michael flager who worked for years to make chicago's streets safer. but it is not the device that is mobile, it is you. real madrid have about 450 million fans. we're trying to give them all the feeling of being at the stadium. the microsoft cloud gives us the scalability to communicate exactly the content that people want to see. it will help people connect to their passion of living real madrid.

tonight, we're in chicago where there is fresh outrage over the gun violence out of control for years and is only getting worse. the little boy in this picture should be at home with his family because 9-year-old children like tyshawn lee should be able to walk to the park and play basketball and get home safety when they are done. in cities and towns across the country that isn't an unreasonable expectation, that is normal and not on the south side of chicago. police say tyshawn lee was targeted because of his father's alleged association with the local gang. this is how it ended for tyshawn lee, crowded church, small casket, this is how it ends for too many of chicago's black

children. a sickening crime, a 9-year-old victim, yet again sadness and anger on chicago's south side. >> our children have a right to walk our streets! our children have a right to expect to be safe wherever they are in the city of chicago! our children deserve that! >> reporter: father michael pfleger led the funeral service. >> tyshawn was not in the wrong place, the murderer, the executioner, the assassin, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. tyshawn was doing what every child has a right to do, be a child. >> reporter: father pfleger helped raise a reward for information about who killed tyshawn lee but fee people want to talk to the police. >> there is fear. this is a different level of what we're involved in.

>> reporter: police say tyshawn was lured her and shot multiple times in the chest and back. they believe the fourth grader was intentionally targeted because his father has ties to a gang with another gang in conflict. in year alone there are around 400 murders in chicago and more horrific rate than last year when they had the most homicides of any city in america. now spike lee hopes to focus attention on the killings, he's directed a new film called "s "chiraque." many say it feels like a war zone. >> homicides in chicago, illinois surpassed the death toll of american special forces in iraq. >> reporter: father michael pfleger is working closely with spike lee and john cusack plays

a priest much like him. i sat down with spike lee and michael pfleger in the same church where tyshawn lee was mourned. you feel like a line has been crossed but how many times have you said that? >> children and have been shot and killed before. there is no request here and across america but when you target a child and shoot and kill him is a different thing. on the street there was a code, you didn't touch children, somebody's mother and somebody's grandmother. >> elders, too. >> you didn't touch the elders and children. for this to happen, you know, not only crosses the line, it takes away all the boundaries and is this going become a new normal? >> reporter: do you see it getting worse? >> i do. unfortunately, what i see right now is so dangerous to me because with social media being

what it is, there doesn't have to be truth or evidence to why you're after somebody. somebody says something on facebook and all of a sudden, i'm going to respond to it. >> anderson, i did not know about that until i got here and through father pfleger, i met two of his peace keepers and they told me that social media is a major element of violene where people post stuff on instagram, twitter, or facebook and people respond to it, not by typing out something on their phones but by bang, bang, bang. >> reporter: what are you, spike, wanting to come here? >> well, number one, i care about human beings. and what was happening in chicago is happening in brooklyn where i'm from, bronx,

killideliphia, as you know, new orleans, houston, south central, but my wife tonya really gave me -- made it crystal clear. chicago is the canary in the coal mine. new york city has three times the population of chicago, yet, chicago has more homicides than new york. so this is the -- this is the spot. this is the ground zero and i'm always been a believer and i'll go to my grave believing this, anderson, that art can affect change. good and bad. >> reporter: what do you think it is about here that makes it so bad? >> all i can say is there's a growing hopelessness that i've seen over the last number of years that is a level that i've

never seen before and a sense that nothing is changing. how do you keep it when the national landmarks in your neighborhood are not new businesses or buildings but teddy bears and yellow police tape and balloons. >> reporter: memorials? >> yes. and part of high school graduations are remembering students that would have been in that class that got killed. when did that become a norm that that's part of our graduation ceremony? a chair draped. these are children. we've got to become angry as a country and decide we're going to have the courage to answer the root causes of this cancer and not just the wound on the skin. >> tomorrow night on "360" we'll talk more with father pfleger and spike lee about the root causes and what is happening and controversy the film sparked in city hall and chicago's mayor

and we'll talk to spike about that and the next night on "360" we'll talk to mothers who lost children in chicago and their strength is extraordinary. i hope you tune in for that on friday night. coming up, newly released videos that show in graphic detail a virginia man being tased by police officers while handcuffed. he later died. tonight there are questions whether these images could lead to charges. (vo) what does the world run on? it runs on optimism. it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest...

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tonight, newly released video, the minutes leading to the death of a virginia man. it shows the officers tazing him over and over in front of a hospital where they took him for medical help. he never made it inside. instead the officers fired their tasers repeatedly while in handcuffs. it happened two years ago. no charges filed against the officers. the videos coming to light as a result of a wrongful death lawsuit. >> reporter: 46-year-old linwood lambert was acting strange when boston police decided to get him checked out at a local emergency room. >> we're not locking you up. what we're doing here is we're going to take you to the emergency room, going to get you looked at and make sure you're good to go. >> reporter: during the ride police shows lambert becomes increasingly agitated and as the squad car pulls into the e.r.

>> don't kick your window. don't kick your window. stop kicking the window. stop kicking the window. calm down! >> reporter: lambert, his hands cuffed behind the back kicks out the patrol car window and sprints towards the emergency room ramming the sliding doors. three officers draw their tasers and appear to make contact. lambert falls forward. >> get on your belly! >> reporter: instead of having him evaluated by doctors, the police put him back in the squad car and when he fails to sit up, he's allegedly tased again in the neck. by the time officers arrive at the detention center several minutes away, lambert is unresponsive. it's unclear how many times he was tased. police call paramedics who begin cpr. as they get to the hospital according to court records, lambert is in quote full cardiac respiratory arrest intubated and connected to auto pulse. paramedics and doctors are unable to resuscitate him and

he's pronounced dead. an autopsy report lists three punctures suggested of taser bash sites on the right and left flanks. the cause of death is listed as acute cocaine intoxication and manner of death is listed as accident. south boston police say the use of tasers is appropriate when someone becomes violent, threatens property or puts others at risk. federal guidelines say police need to train to understand the use of tasers may increase risk of death and serious injury and should be avoided. the family filed a $25 million lawsuit accusing police of using excessive unreasonable and deadly force saying they violated lambert's civil rights. a statement from lawyers representing the officers says the police did nothing wrong in their interaction with the late mr. lambert and that their actions did not cause his death. >> and as debra pointed out, at

this point we do not know how many times mr. lambert was tased. cnn reached out to the police today and haven't gotten a response and we should point out, it's a holiday, veterans day as well. joining me is sunny hostin and former nypd detective harry houck. they say they didn't use excessive force, do you agree? >> to an extent. when they got to the hospital and tried to breakthrough the glass, the force was adequate at that time. i wouldn't have use tw used two on the guy, one point looked like three. once they got his legs shackled, it should have stopped. they made the mistake, they were at the hospital and all they had to do, i done this many a times is tell the hospital to come out with a gurney, put that man on a gurney and strap him to the

gurney and take him in. it's very clear this man was having some kind of psychological event. he's not a typical perp who is resisting arrest because he's trying to get away from the police. this man has a psychological problem and it's very clear they should have took that man into the hospital and never brought him back to the jail. >> sunny, as you watch this, you know, obviously, you watch him in the black of a police car getting tased repeatedly and hands and legs are bound. what do you make of what you see? >> anderson, i think this is one of the rare times harry and i agree here. the initial tazing seems appropriate to me. you have someone shackled, someone running away, running into an emergency room that may have other people that could be in danger if he's having a psychotic event. that makes sense. it is very clear under the federal guidelines and quite frankly, it's very clear under the south boston police department guidelines that you can't -- the taser used is

excessive or inappropriate when you have someone that has been shackled and is being detained. he was shackled and they continued to taze him. now while we don't know how many times he's been tased, in the civil suit they are alleging over 20 times in the span of half an hour. we know from taser international, those tasers were deployed at least 20 times over a 30, you know, 30-minute period. we don't know how many times they made contact. even if they made contact half of the time, let's say ten times, it's still per se excessive force. what is infuriating to me however is the fact that the prosecutor's office has had this investigation open since 2013 and no charges have been filed. the investigation is not completed and in fact, the three officers have been promoted. that seems to me to be just such a disservice to justice in this case. >> right. anderson --

>> it's interesting, harry, because he was not under arrest until he broke the window. i mean, as you said, he was clearly having whether drug induced or psychological, you know, event, he was clearly talking to the officers in the car and afraid they were taking him somewhere or punishing him. he wasn't under arrest and hadn't done anything wrong until he broke the window and put them away. >> that's okay. you can place somebody under arrest while they are on a gurney. when he was in the backseat of the radio car, there was no reason to tase that man in the backseat of the car. he was shackled and they would transport him, just take him to the jail. >> harry, appreciate you being on, sunny hostin and we'll continue to follow this. there is a wrongful death suit. we'll be right back.

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well, that does it for us. up next, go inside america's busiest coroner's office on a new episode of "this is life with lisa ling." careful. >> it's 10:00 a.m. in los angeles. this is crazy. and i'm following rudy malano down treacherous ground. police have been waiting for rudy to inspect the scene. >> we have a floater. lifeguard personnel brought him ashore. >> but rudy isn't a detective. he's an investigator with the l.a. county coroner, the first person allowed to examine the body lying in the