thanks for joining us. we'll see you here tomorrow night. night. "ac360" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening. thanks very much for joining us. we begin tonight with donald trump's promise to round up each and every one of the estimated 11 million people who are in this country illegally with specifics he laid out for doing it, a special deportation force he calls it historical precedent that he says shows it can be done both effectively and humanely. mr. trump talking about it in milwaukee during the debate. >> let me just tell you that dwight eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him, i like ike, right? the expression. i like ike.

moved a million and a half illegal immigrants out of this country. dwight eisenhower. you don't get nicer. you don't get friendlier. they moved a million and a half people out. we have no choice. we have no choice. >> people can and do differ on his assessment of the problem. for the solution, mass deportations and the belief it worked the last time around we got facts and tom foreman tonight is keeping them honest. >> reporter: spurring protest and spiking poll numbers, tough talk about illegal immigration put donald trump on the election map. >> they are bringing drugs. they are bringing crime. they are rapists. >> reporter: and now, he is praising a program whose official name considers what is currently considered an offensive slur, operation wet back. in 1954 this massive roundup of undocumented workers came after years of growing tension between the u.s. and mexico about

we would be ripping families out of their homes and separating families is utter nonsense. and what it's about is to stir up the emotions as opposed to rational reasoned thinking about how we would go about establishing the rule of law in this country.

>> a lot of people in the gop say this has to be a nation of laws. these people are here illegally, what about this idea of a deportation force? >> i think you had a bipartisan gang of eight senate bill that talked about the solution to this, which was to enforce our borders, figure out a real way to have the workers come here that we need and then also to legalize those who have been here for years and years and

years, anderson who have had children who are contributing to our economy and these are people that donald trump is going to essentially we port in what, trains? is he going to turn this country into a get stap -- gestapo state? it's not only unworkable but political suicide for republicans. >> these are your words, those are not donald trump's words. let's be very close on that. those are your words. those are not his. >> so what are his words, then? >> we -- but we -- right. but we don't need to be comparing -- just for argument sake, we don't need to compare to that. let's stick to facts here. anna, jeb bush is critical of the jeb bush approach. you can't deny that a hard line approach to this issue resonates with a lot of primary voters.

>> i don't deny that and i think it's what made donald trump very popular to begin with when he initially hit upon this top pick when in his speech where he called mexicans rapists and went on about illegal immigration and since then, i think he's realized that the more he hits the topic, the more popular he becomes with the base and energizes supporters. what he saw last night and it's important to note, there is a wide gap, a keep schism within the republican party. wide gap, a deep skism within the republican party. certainly, there is a faction that believe and support what donald trump is saying but there is also a faction that believe what folks like marco rubio and jeb bush and john kasich are saying. i don't think it's fair to paint the entire gop with one broad brush. and let me just tell you, anderson, this afternoon, today is veteran's day and this afternoon i was walking through the vietnam memorial and there are so many names when you go

through there that are hispanic and immigrant names and you have to think to yourself and wonder how many of those kids might have been undocumented or the children of undocumented immigrants and yet, were willing to give their lives and serve this country and pay the ultimate sacrifice so we could live in freedom today. there is something so hurtful about the idea of this wet back operation. the term itself is offensive and hurtful and i think mr. trump is doing a lot of harm to the gop brand in the long run. i wish he would really watch his words. >> sam, i want to give you the final thought, are you concerned, though, about obviously there is a primary election but in a general election, hurting donald trump support among latino voters. david axlerod made the point about the need to get greater hispanic support. >> i appreciate anna's comments about veterans and if you notice on the lapel of my jacket today,

i don't normally do this but i'm wearing my command pilot wings and jump wings from my 25 years of service to the united states and the proudest years of my life and so i want to thank all of my fellow veterans out there and to go on to finish up this comment, i think what we're really at a point here is we have brought this topic up since the launch of the trump campaign. and what we are now seeing and i thought last night was actually healthy because we actually had a very open and frank discussion on that stage about immigration in this country and i think that's really, really the point that ought to be made here is that there is, that we have the contrasting issues here, the rule of law and then whether or not we're going to establish the rule of law and enforce the laws that we have on the books and are there not mechanisms to reestablish the rule of law in this country as far as imfrags is concerned.

i think that's what we're after. that's what we're after here, reestablishment and rule of law in this country rather than arbitrary capricious executive orders. we have changed the law, circumvent the congress and undermine the constitution. i don't think anybody can argue with that. >> we all agree on the need of rule of law and the need for secure borders. where we disagree, we're going back to a horrific program that did nothing but hurt people. >> those are your words. >> yes, they are my words. they are exactly my words. and let me remind you, sam, you used to support rick perry who unthis very, very well and even supported the dream act. >> and even regan, many republican candidates talked about last night, regan passed the 1986 amnesty law. >> no, he did not. if you ask ronald reagan, if you remember, the two greatest often talked about the two greatest mistakes he made in his life was signing the abortion legislation in california and the 1986 immigration law.

those were the two biggest political mistakes he made in his career and that's documented and you can look it up. >> and yet republicans continue to bring up his name. >> appreciate it. we appreciate the discussion. good discussion. sam, as your point was made, last night it is a good discussion to have and one of the highlights of the debate certainly last night to get the different positions out there. sam clovis, appreciate it especially on this veterans day, thanks for taking the time. maria and anna navarro. if illegal immigration highlighted some differences between the candidates, the name hillary clinton certainly did not. nearly all the candidates went after her last night as you might expect. which republican front runners would do best against her? we'll take a look closely at the numbers with john king on that. also ahead, what began with police taking this man to the hospital ended with him dead following jolt after jolt from a taser as he pled for them to stop. the question is, why didn't

they?

♪ just look at those two. happy. in love. and saving so much money on their car insurance by switching to geico... well, just look at this setting. do you have the ring? oh, helzberg diamonds. another beautiful setting. i'm not crying. i've just got a bit of sand in my eyes, that's all. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. the internet of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here.

it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. marie callender's with a crust made from scratch. because when it's cold outside, good food and good company... ...keep you warm inside. marie callender's. well, welcome back. the republican candidates

certainly don't agree on everything, however, if last night's debate, each and every one of them fwraeed on one thing or more, precisely, one person. >> if you look at foreign policy, every region on the world has gotten worse under her leadership. we abandoned the nation of israel. under her leadership. >> hillary clinton said that barack obama's policies get an a. really? wait this will you see what hillary clinton will do this to country and how she will drawn us in debt. >> she will be a disaster. >> hillary clinton is coming for your wallet, everybody. >> the worst secretary of state in the history of our country. >> the clinton presidency will corrode the character of this nation. >> we all agree hillary clinton is bad. >> hillary clinton embodies the cronyism. >> our military will continue to deteriorate. our veterans will not be cared for and no, mrs. clinton, that situation is not exaggerated. >> we wanted to look tonight how

they would match up to hillary clinton in a general election. there is new polling and john king is breaking down by the numbers for us. john, if clinton is the democratic presidential nominee, how does she fair against the leading republican candidates? >> there are a number of different polls. depending on the candidate, anderson. generally look for a competitive general election. look at this, in this poll, she beats trump quite handedly. and beats trump more narrowly and nbc wallet journal beats trump again. the average of the last five or six, hillary clinton beats donald trump by five points. ben carson runs more competitive than donald trump. plus two, clinton wins in the poll and loses by ten to ben carson and it's a tie in the nbc and wall street journal and if you average it, ben carson beats hillary clinton. by on average four points in the national polls. marco rubio similar. plus five that's a statistical dead heat.

minus five, you get the picture. rubio in a dead heat with hillary clinton right now. and if you're wondering, jeb bush polls the same as marco rubio. and hillary clinton fairs better against ted cruz plus ten in one poll and plus six if you average them out. look at the pictures. cruz and trump are weaker and rubio and carson competitive. >> digging deeper, what are the general election strengths and vulnerabilities? >> one of the reasons hillary clinton wants to wrap up the nomination early is she has weaknesses. let's look at one strength first, the gender gap. the first woman president. look at the numbers against trump. a huge gender gab. plus 26, plus 20, plus 21. that's a huge trump liability and clinton asset. if you're hillary clinton and you're a plus 9 and a plus 11,

you think you should do better than barack obama dpid, so while it's a strength, it's not as good a strength, not as big a strength as it should be. the weakness for hillary clinton, independent voters. if you look through this otherwise, and again in this one here, carson hillary clinton loses to ben carson. she's losing among independents. barack obama lost to mitt romney among independents by five points. if you're looking at a deficit of 13 and 7, you don't want to underperform barack obama against the republican. among nonwhite voters, it's a huge strength. she beats trump by 89 points, carson by 86 points. rubio by 89. this is exactly where barack obama was among african-american a bit of a weakness here. this is where obama was when clinton runs against trump.

carson and rubio do a little better. hillary clinton still beats them handley, but barack obama won by 24 in this range. these are good, but you would like to make them a little better, anderson. >> there's plenty to talk about with our panel, which includes a guy who must be wondering why all those candidates were dropping hillary clinton's name but not his. he is paul begala along with amanda carpenter, and jeffrey lord, who's a donald trump supporter. paul, haven't heard from you since last night. when you hear the hypothetical matchup, do you worry about any of the numbers you see? >> no, it's just soon. it is. what that polling is that dr. carson would be the most vulnerable candidate against secretary clinton. maybe so. and i don't mean any disrespect. he's an impressive man. he's really doing remarkably well among republicans now. i tend to be a skeptic that he's

actually going to be able to defeat hillary, but if ehe's beating her in the polls now, so be it. this is so early. i was struck last night, hill y hillary's campaign put out a video, 40-plus time they mentioned her name. only used the phrase middle class eight. so we know what their obsession is. it's kind of creepy. but maybe it's affectionate. i don't know maybe they're like junior high schoolboys, just can't stop talking about her. >> but amanda, to that point, doesn't that rally people, conservatives, who want to come out to the polls. we see dr. carson polling strongest against hillary clinton, but in terms of motivating people to come out and vote, hillary clinton seems to be a big motivation. >> absolutely. it makes sense to talk about her a lot. she is going to be the nominee most likely. it makes sense to attack her and define her.

and look consistently among the poll, we see that voters find her untrustworthy, she has a trouble with likability, honesty, these are really, really big deals. i don't know how you heal that over time. but one thing that's kind of interesting, we can look at head to head matchups, but we have to look at issues. in looking at the republican debate and democratic debate, there's one saturday night, although they won't get the millions of viewers that people have been tuning into the republican debates, which says a lot. but it's like we're living in two different worlds. republican debates, you talk a lot about the economy, foreign policy, immigration, democrats are talking ant minimum wage, climate change. they don't match up. i'm curious to see how the general election goes. we're having two different conversations among republicans and democratss. >> for all the criticism that have trump levies at hillary clinton, he is polling -- eh has also, to amanda point, high negatives.

maybe it's just as controversial and polarizing. it always pains me to be in agreement with my friend paul. however, he is absolutely correct, it is way too soon to be focusing on these polls in terms of the general election. i've decided, i think, before december of 1979 poll that showed jimmy carter -- this was trumpeted by the carter white house, i might ad, that showed jimmy carter beating ronald reagan 60 to 36% with the pollster for president carter saying the data was just overwhelmingly in favor of carter and they can't wait to run against reagan. here we are, almost in december the year before next november, it is just way too soon to get into this. and by the time -- let's just say it is donald trump versus hillary clinton, then people are going to start to focus. they both have their negative,

but with up with choice to make, people are going to have to vote for one of them and the situation can change drastically. >> you know, paul, we're talking to amanda last night at, i don't know, 12:00 or 1:00 a.m. it's quite a late night for us all. i don't know how you got out of doing that. she believes very possibly trump and carson will fade and we're going to see one of these other candidates coming up to be the eventual nominee perhaps. do you think that still is likely? history shows outsiders tend to fade. generally there's an establishment candidate who becomes the nominee. >> in the post reagan era -- reagan was the outsider and obviously able to win not only a nomination but two landslides. after reagan, though, the republicans have reliably nominated the person who wins the establishment bracket. there's also an outsider, sometimes, you know, pat buchanan, sometimes even more

formidable. it's not my party, so the likelihood of me being wrong is pretty close to 100%. it seems to me the power is in the outsider bracket. people, republican establishment types who i know in washington are very excited about senator rubio and governor kasich and governor christie, jeb bush. they don't add up to either trump or carson. so maybe they fade if they do -- i'm not just sucking up to amanda. ted cruz is the one i would put money on. he could ignite the outsider wing and maybe do well enough with a few establish. people. >> you're making his argue. for him. i never thought that would have happened. >> i'm from texas. he steam rolled that state. he's a really, really talented guy. >> i want to throw something into this debate. last night we talked about how republicans have to do more to i've been thinking about it today. if it does indeed come down to a

cruz-rubio race. you have two leading hispanics who will be able to carry a strong conservative message on immigration. that's something that's never been tested among the republican party. the democrats feel that they can play the racial and gender identity cards. the republican party has more hispanics, more women, more blacks on the stage alone than ever before. so i think it's a huge opportunity too just change that game entirely. >> interesting point. >> and we'll have some surprises. >> they have more minority and women candidates than they have minority and women voters. that's the problem. >> thank you very much. coming up, donald trump's likely biggest support, malani, who has been mostly silent. how she's changing the way she stands by her husband and what influence she's having on her husband . i'm hacking your company.

grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security. we're ready. are you?

she'll use that educationing to get a job. she'll use that job to buy a home. this is lilly baker. her mom just refinanced their home and is putting an extra $312 a month toward lilly's tuition. lilly is about to take over the world. who's with her? buy in. quickenloans/home buy. refi. power.

♪ ♪ it took the rockettes years to master the kick line. but only a few moves to master paying bills on chase.com

technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. >> until now, melani trump has been the woman quietly standing by her husband's side. there she was last night on this program watching closely as donald trump fielded question

from our dana bash following the debate. it was a similar seat two weeks ago just after the cnbc debate. there she is again just off her husband's shoulder. she's often seen but not so often heard. the question is, what role is melani trump playing behind the scenes. randi kaye takes a look. >> super model turned super supporter to donald trump, suddenly fielding questions in the post debate spin room. >> great evening, yes. just the way it was handled was very fair and elegant and fair questions. all about the economy and business. and he's master at that. >> after months of keeping his third wife out of the spotlight, melania trump is at his side on the campaign trail, and she's talking more than we've ever heard her before. in september, she did talk to "people" magazine, though, sharing how when she and donald first met in 1998, she refused to give him her number, even though she thought donald did have, quote, sparkle.

when "people" magazine interviewed her, politics was off the table. she told larry king she considers herself her husband's equal. >> you need to know who you are and you need to be very strong and smart. >> melania once graced the covers of "glak mor" magazine and sold her own line of jewelry on qvc. her name is trademarked. >> make them feel special. we make them feel elegant. >> she also appeared in this aflac commercial. she is a slo venni islovenian io became a naturalized citizen in 2006. when asked about becoming a citizen, her response was it doesn't even cross my mind to just stay here. i think people should follow the law. if they do reach the white house, melania would be the first foreign born first lady since john quincy adam's wife, who was born about 200 years

before melania trump. >> randy joins us now tonight. what else do we know about her? >> we know she enjoys fashion, she played tennis, she does pilates, she does some work with the american red cross. she and donald trump have a son, 9-year-old baron. so he keeps her pretty busy. the couple reportedly does not have a full-time nanny so she does have her hands full with him on most days. the question is what would her hobby be or her cause be if she becomes a first lady. donald trump said she would be a great first lady. "people" magazine asked her and she said you know what, it's a long road ahead, i'm just going to take this day by day, anderson. >> just ahead, a 9-year-old boy gunned down execution style has become another heart breaking victim in chicago's south side gun vie epidemic. happens to be the focus of spike

lee's new film. i'm going to talk to spike lee ahead and father michael plaguer who's worked for years to try to make chicago's streets safer. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? inthe mid-size van, from mercedes-benz. it's got small-ability and big-ability. towing-ability

and stowing-ability. rack-ability and hvac-ability. it's fully customizable and sized just right to give you cupcake-ability, entourage-ability... ...garage-ability and even afford-ability. starting at $28,950. available in cargo or passenger. from mercedes-benz. in the country have in common? many of them now call cancer treatment centers of america home. expert medicine works here.

find out why at cancer center.com. cancer treatment centers of america.

tonight in chicago, there's fresh outrage over the gun violence out of control for years and only getting worse. the little boy in this picture should be at home tonight with his family because 9-year-old children should be able to walk to the park to play basketball and get home safely when they're done playing. cities and towns across the country, that's not an unreasonable expectation. in fact, that is the norm. not in south side of chicago, though. this was no random shooting. police in chicago say tyshon lee was intentionally targeted because of his father's alleged association with a local gang. this is how it ended for tyshon lee, a crowded church, a small casket. this is how it ends for too many of chicago's black children. a secondening crime, a 9-year-old victim, yet again sadness and anger on chicago's south side.

>> our children have a right to walk our streets. our children have a right to expect to be safe wherever they are in the city of chicago! our children deserve that! >> father michael pfleger led the service. >> tyshn was not in the wrong place, the executioner, the as a sin was in the wrong place at the wrong time. tyshaun was doing what every child has a right to do -- being a child. >> as so often happens, few people want to talk to the police. >> there's fear. this is a different level of something that we're involved with. these are noncombatants now being assassinated. >> police say tyshaun was lured here in this alley and shot multiple times in the face and back. while authorities still haven't made any arrest, they believe the fourth grader was

intentionally targeted because his father has ties to a gang in conflict with another gang. this year alone there have been around 400 murders in chicago and even more horrific rate than last year when they had the most homicide in the city in america. now filmmaker spike lee hopes to focus attention on the killings. he's directed a new filmed call chiraq. it's a titled, a term coined by local wrappers is a melding of chicago and iraqs. many who live on chicago's south side say it feels like a war zone. >> homicide in chicago, illinois, have surpassed the death toll of american special forces in iraq. >> father michael pfleger has been working with spike lee. john kusack plays a priest very much like him.

>> you feel like a line has been crossed. although i wonder how many times have you said that, that a line has been crossed. >> i've never said it like -- children have been shot and killed before, no question about it. here and across america, but when you target a child and shoot and kill him is a different thing. on the streets there was a call. you didn't touch children, somebody's mother, somebody's grandmother. >> elders, too. >> ewe didn't touch the elders or children. so for this to happen, you know, not only crosses the line, it takes away all the boundaries, and, you know, is this going to become a new normal. >> do you see it just getting worse? >> yeah, i do. unfortunately, what i see right now is so dangerus to me because with social media being what it is, there doesn't even have to be truth or evidence to why you're after somebody. somebody just says something on facebook, and all of a sudden i'm going to respond to it.

>> i didn't know about that until i got here. and i met two peacekeepers, and they told me that social media is a major element of violence, where people post stuff on instagr instagram, twitter and facebook and people respond to it. not by typing out something on their phone, but by bang, bang, bang. >> what got you, spike, wanting to come here? >> well, number one. >> number one, i care about human beings. what's happening here is happening in the bronx, killadelphia, new orleans, houston, south central. but my wife tanya really made it crystal clear.

chicago is the canary in the coal mine. new york city has three times the population of chicago and chicago has more homicide than new york. so this is the spot. this is ground zero. and i've all been a believer -- and i will go to my grave believing this, anderson, that art can affect change, good and bad. >> what do you think about here that makes it so bad? >> all i can say is that there's a growing hopelessness at a level i've never seen before. and a sense that nothing is changing. the national landmarks in your neighborhood are not new

businesses or frank lloyd wright buildings but teddy bears and balloons. >> makeshift memorials. >> yeah. and part of high school graduations are remembering students that would have been in that class that god killed. when did that become a norm that that's part of our graduation ceremo ceremony the chair draped. these are children. >> we've got to decide we have the courage to answer the root causes of this cancer and not just the wound on the skin. >> tonight, we'll talk more about the root causes and what's happening here. and also the controversy the film has sparked in city hall in chicago. chicago's mayor not happy about the title about it. we'll talk to spike about that. and the next night we'll talk to mothers who have lost children in chicago. their strength is extraordinary.

i hope you tune into that on friday night. also coming up right now, newly released videos that show in graphic detail a virginia man being tazed by police officers while handcuffeds he later died. tonight, there's questions about whether these images could lead to charges. ♪ ♪

the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi, and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. ♪ i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me. with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do release its own insulin. trulicity responds when my blood sugar rises. i take it once a week, and it works 24/7. it comes in an easy-to-use pen and i may even lose a little weight. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable prescription medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it should be used along with diet and exercise. trulicity is not recommended as the first medicine

to treat diabetes and should not be used by people with severe stomach or intestinal problems, or people with type i diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. trulicity is not insulin and has not been studied with long-acting insulin. do not take trulicity if you or anyone in your family has had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2 or if you are allergic to trulicity or its ingredients. stop using trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of an allergic reaction, such as itching, rash, or difficulty breathing; if you have signs of pancreatitis such as severe stomach pain that will not go away and may move to your back, with or without vomiting; or if you have symptoms of thyroid cancer, which may include a lump or swelling in your neck, hoarseness, trouble swallowing, or shortness of breath. medicines like trulicity may cause stomach problems, which could be severe. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and any medicines you take. taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase your risk for low blood sugar. common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, and indigestion. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney failure.

with trulicity, i click to activate what's within me. if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar numbers with a non-insulin option, ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. and click to activate your within. this holiday season, gewhat's in the trunk? nothing. romance. 18 inch alloys. you remembered. family fun. everybody squeeze in. don't block anyone. and non-stop action. noooooooo! it's the event you don't want to miss. it's the season of audi sales event. get up to a $2,500 bonus for highly qualified lessees on select audi models. digestive core.r so choose ultimate flora by renewlife. it has 30 billion probiotic cultures. feel lighter and more energized. ultimate flora. more power to your gut.

tonight, newly released videos show in graphic details the minutes leading to the death of a virginia man while in police custody. it shows officers tasing him over and over where the officers took him for medical help. he never made it inside, the officers fired repeatedly at him while he was in handcuffs. the videos are only now coming to light as a result of a wrongful death lawsuit. >> reporter: 46-year-old linwood lambert was allegedly acting strange when south boston, virginia, police decided to get him checked out at a local emergency room. >> we're not locking you up. what we're doing here is we're going to take you to the emergency room. going to get you looked at and make sure you're good to go. >> but during the ride police video shows lambert becomes

increasingliagy agitated. as the squad car pulls into the e.r. -- >> don't kick in the window. stop kicking the window. calm down! calm down! >> lett >> lambert with his hands cuffed behind his back kicks out the window, ramming the sliding doors. three officers draw their tasers and appear to make contact. lambert falls forward. >> i'm going to light you up again. >> reporter: instead of having him evaluated by doctors, the police put him back in the squad car. when he fails to sit up, he's allegedly tased again in the neck. by the time officers arrive at the detention center, several minutes away, lambert is unresponsive. it's unclear how many times he was tased. police call paramedics who begin cpr. as they get to the hospital according to court records, lambert is in, quote, full cardiac respiratory arrest. intubated and connected to auto

pulse. paramedics and doctors aren't able to resuscitate him and he's pronounced dead. an autopsy report lists three punctures suggesting taser barb sites. the cause of death is enlisted as acute cocaine intoxication and the manner of death is listed as accident. the south boston police say the use of tasers is appropriate when someone becomes violent, threatens property or puts others at risk. federal guideline says police must be trained to understand repeated use of tasers may increase risk of death or serious injury and should be avoided. the family has filed a $25 million lawsuit accusing police of using excessive, unreasonable and deadly force, saying they violated lambert's civil rights. a statement from lawyers representing the officers says the police did nothing wrong in their interaction with the late mr. lambert and that their actions did not cause his death.

cnn, new york. >> and as debra pointed out, as this point, we do not know how many times mr. lambert was tazed. we haven't gotten a response from the police, but we should point out it's a holiday vterans day as well. the police officer said the officers didn't use excessive force here. do you agree? >> up to a certain extent. as far as when he got to the hospital and he was trying to break through the glass, i think their force was adequate at that time. i don't think i would have used two tasers on the guy. it looked like at one point there may have been three. i think that's a little too much. once they got his legs shackled, it should have stopped. now, this is where the officers made their mistake. they were at the hospital. all they had to do -- and i have done this many a times when i worked the street is tell the

hospital, come out with the gurney, put that man on a gurney and strap him to the gurney and cake taik him in. it's very clear this man was having some kind of a psychological event. he's not a typical perp who's resisting arrest because he's trying to get away from the police. this man is has got a psychological problem and it's very clear to me they should have took that man into the hospital. they should have never brought him back to the jail. >> as you watch this, obviously you watch in the bahhing of the police car getting tazed repeatedly, his hands and legs are bound. what do you see? >> this is one of the rare times where harry and i agree here. the initial tazing seems appropriate to me. you have someone that's shackled, someone that's running away, running into an emergency room that may have other people that could be in danger if he's having a psychotic event. that makes sense. but it is very clear under the federal guidelines, and quite frankly, it's very clear, under

the south boston police department guidelines that the taser use is excessive or inappropriate when you have someone that has been shackled and is being detained. he was shackled and they continued to tase him. while we don't know how many times he's been tazed, at least in the civil suit, they're alleging over 20 times in the span of half an hour. we know from taser international, at least from the civil suit, that those tasers were deployed at least 20 times over a 30-minute period. we just don't know how many times they made contact. but even if they made contact half of the time, let's say ten times, it's still, per se excessive force. what's infuriating to me, however, is the fact that the prosecutor's office has had this investigation open since 2013 and no charges have been filed. the investigation is not completed, and, in fact, the three officers have been promoted. that seems to me to be just such

a disservice to justice in this case. >> right, and anderson -- >> it's always interesting, harry, because he was not under arrest until he broke the window. i mean, as you said, he was clearly having some -- whether it was drug induced or psychological, you know, event, he clearly was talking to the officers while he was in the car. he was afraid that they were taking him somewhere, punishing him. but he wasn't under arrest, he technically hadn't done anything wrong until he broke the window and ran away. >> that's okay. you can place somebody under arrest when they're on the gurney and he was in the hospital. the other issue i had was when he was in the backseat of the car, there was no reason to tase that man in the backseat of that car at all. he was shackled, he was down on the ground. if they're going to transport him, just take him to the jail. >> appreciate you being on. obviously we'll continue to follow this. as we said, there's a wrongful

death suit. we'll be right back. good.how was your commute? yours? good. xerox real time analytics make transit systems run more smoothly... and morning chitchat... less interesting. transportation can work better. with xerox.

thank you for calling. we'll be with you shortly. yeah right... xerox predictive analytics help companies provide a better and faster customer experience. hello mr. kent. can i rebook your flight? i'm here! customer care can work better. with xerox. wait i'm here! mr. kent? just serve classy snacks and bew a gracious host,iday party. no matter who shows up. [cricket sound] richard. didn't think you were going to make it. hey sorry about last weekend, i don't know what got into me. well forgive and forget... kind of. i don't think so! do you like nuts?

that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. now i can download my dvr recordings and take them anywhere. ready or not, here i come! (whispers) now hide-and-seek time can also be catch-up-on-my-shows time. here i come! can't find you anywhere! don't settle for u-verse. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv.

>> that does it for us. go inside on a new episode of "this is life" with lisaling. careful. it's 10:00 a.m. in los angeles. this is crazy. and i'm following rudy malano down treacherousround. police have been waiting for rudy to inspect the scene. >> we have a floater. lifeguard personnel brought him ashore. >> but rudy isn't a detective. he's an investigator with the