two left in their wake. more clues unearthed but still no clear motive. among the latest discoveries, two smashed cell phones, believed to belong to saeed rizwan farook and his wife, tashfeen malik. investigators believe a hard drive may have been removed or destroyed to potentially cover their tracks. they are trueing to retrieve information. >> there was obviously a mission here if you look at the preplanning. we do not know why. it would be irresponsible and preplaur plaumature of me to c terrorism. >> reporter: rizwan farook seems to have been radicalized. the fbi and white house cautious not to rule out any motives. >> it is possible that this was terrorist related.

but we don't know. it's also possible that this was workplace related. >> reporter: a raid on the couple's redlands home uncovering a bomb lab in the garage, 12 pipe bombs, hundreds of tools that could be used to make more bombs and thousands of rounds of ammunition. these images purport to show explosive devises found at rizwan farook's home. >> they were equipped and could have continued to do another attack. we intercepted them before that happened within obviously. >> reporter: overnight, one of the first police officers on the scene of the shooting describing it as an unprecedented tragedy in his career. >> it was unspeakable, the carnage we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe. >> reporter: hundreds gathering late thursday inside san manuel

stadium in san bernardino to mourn. ♪ god bless america >> reporter: as the names of each of the 14 victims were read aloud. ♪ land that i love >> so the key questions this morning, was he and/or his wife radicalized? if so, how? and if so, why isn't this mass murder being called terrorism? cnn chief national security correspondent jim sciutto has more on all of this for us. we know you've been following this investigation again overnight. what do we know? >> first thing you do with an investigation like this, you look at travel and communication, particularly overseas travel, overseas communications. here's what they find. first let's talk about con tacks. farook, he communicated with terrorism suspects, subjects rather by phone and through social media. these are soft connections. what does that mean? it doesn't mean he spoke to isis, al qaeda recruiters, leaders, he spoke with sympathizers, jihadi forums,

known to the fbi. this is key. in cases like this, that is often a path to terrorism to have those contacts online. doesn't mean that was the case for sure. it's not definitive. that's been a path to terrorism in the past. that's why it's important to investigators at this point. let's look at this overseas travel. i've spoken to u.s. and saudi officials now. we confirmed details about this trip. it took place in july 2014, nine days, went from chicago to the city of jedda in saudi arabia. two u.s. officials tell cnn he also visited in 2013 saudi arabia and that's the visit where he is likely to have met his wife, his family has said they first met on a dating website. it appears he may have gone to saudi arabia to meet her there. let's talk a little bit more about her. she's 27 years old. they've been married for two years, the mother of a 6-month-old child with farook. you'll remember the details. they left that child at a grandparent's house the morning of a shooting saying they had to go to a doctor's appointment.

she came to the u.s. on a k-1 visa, what's known as a fiancee visa. she gained a green card, a visa while here in the u.s. these points are not definitive but are key and raising red flags for investigators as they build a possible terrorist explanation for these crimes. they're also looking at workplace violence and some combination of the two. there is precedent for that. we've seen cases in france. another case in the u.s. where someone had both islamic extremist tendencies but also a workplace problem. and that came together to a violent end. chris, back to you. >> and if the investigators are cautious, so should we be. jim sciutto, thank you very much. we'll check back with you soon. we do have breaking news and something that you're not going to see anywhere else this morning. not long ago we spoke with the

attorneys for the shooter's family. this was a long and probative interview covering a lot of ground. frankly, it was surprising with both what was and was not known by the family. then we got into why the attorneys and the family are not ready to call this terrorism and why they have questions about the key facts in the case. let's start there. >> where do you go with this in terms of how they explain how he went from someone they knew and loved to somebody who could do something so monstrous? >> there's a lot of disconnects and there's a lot of unknowns and there's a lot of things that, fight frankly, don't add up or seem implausible. i don't -- she was never involved in shooting. she's probably about 90 pounds. it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or do any of this. where the couple was found, from what i understand, they were handcuffed, lying face down in

this truck, shot up. there's a lot of things that just don't make sense. you know, no one has ever seen syed with any of the things that they -- i mean, with some of the things they found on the scene. they haven't seen him with them. >> like what? >> the pipe bombs, for example. no one had ever seen him use or have anything like that. and it just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of bonnie and clyde or something. it's ridiculous. it doesn't add up. they don't have the military skills to carry out something like this, really, frankly. >> authorities go back and forth on whether or not this shows sophistication or lack of sophistication in terms of how it was carried out. are you saying you're not sure they did this? >> i'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't make sense. it looks like -- if somebody had military training or something,

yes, but there was none of that. and this person was not aggressive. we sat with the fbi for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way. they couldn't find anything. they were totally stumped, frustrated. in the media, some have said it may be work related, like he was disgruntled in some way. everyone is clueless. there's nothing that would characterize him to act in this manner. >> but to be clear, does the family have any doubts as to whether or not this was him and his wife who did it? the authorities have none, as you know. >> the family has come to terms with the situation as the facts have been coming out. they've been very accepting of it. they send their apologies and wishes and prayers to everybody who lost their lives. and they've let that -- they've let that be known already. so i nn nny -- i think the famis

been accepting of everything that's come out through the media and police reports. they lost two family members of their own as well. >> i want to make sure i'm hearing the same thing from you. it seems like you're saying, it doesn't make sense, she might not have done this. >> i don't speak for the family 'views. they're not affiliated with this in any way. they were really surprised to hear about these events, shocked. when they started to hear about them, they were worried for the safety of syed. they were completely shocked when they found out about it. they thought he might be getting attacked. from an attorney's perspective in the cases i've had, the facts don't make sense. that's all i would say. >> that's the part i don't get. i know you're not here to plead the case for the people who did the killing, i hope. >> i'm frustrated. >> i think what david is trying to say -- >> the officers say they took fire from this suv, the people in the suv were him and her. that's kind of the end of the analysis of possibility.

>> chris, as you know, as an attorney yourself, you do also understand we have to wait for everything to come in, not just bits and parts of the factual basis. >> give me a possibility. what could come in? >> i don't know what could come in. there's more information that we haven't received, you haven't received, nobody has. >> that is true. the investigation is ongoing. but, again, one of the reasons this was an unusual interview, there's a lot more in there that we have not heard before. you'll get to see it coming up right now, we should go through what we've already heard. let's bring in retired chief jim beerman, president of the police foundation in d.c. and retired sergeant cheryl dorsey, served 20 years with the lapd. thank you, as always. let's be fair and clear. one by all indications the family is not under any umbrella of suspicion from federal authorities. they've been doing everything voluntarily. the attorneys very pressing on that point.

also, they are not in a place, in terms of conclusions that the investigators are not calling it terrorism either. there is one point. the lack of clarity for the counsel and family, based on facts this may or may not be them. from what you know of them investigating, do they have any question whether it was this man and this woman who entered that building? >> no doubt these are the people responsible for this. the attorneys are paid to represent the family. they're paid to try to pitch a particular perspective. the one attorney that says that there's some indication they were found handcuff in the back seat of the car. apparently he hasn't seen the video the rest of the world has seen where this woman was removed from the suv by the police, on video. you can see it for everybody to watch and she's clearly not handcuffed. this was at the end of the pursuit where she and her husband have been firing assault weapons at the police officers. there's no doubt these are the people responsible. >> they say the family has come to terms with it. a little bit of this may be

lawyer play. that is what they are. that is the business that a lawyer is in. that's why you hire them. it also goes to the question of, well, it may not have been just them, right? investigators are still wanting to know, well, who knew? they have some of the questions the attorneys did. how did they learn how to use these bombs and go in there and shoot? you can argue their effectiveness and discipline. they still killed 14 people and it could have involved more help on different lives, right, cheryl? >> it's difficult for anyone to say what another adult will or will not do. we interact with these people, family members in a way and see them in a way that is foreign to these people. i understand why the family is in a bit of denial. i don't think anyone can say with certainly what someone will or won't do. >> i don't want to project on to the family what the attorneys are saying with respect to the case. that's their business assessing the facts. family has been forthcoming with investigators. that's important because of the

atmosphere and community right now of doubt. 90-pound woman, probably couldn't have done it. cheryl dorsey, how many women have you seen capable of doing very terrible things? >> i do know you only need two pounds of pressure for a firearm. you don't need to have special knowledge. all you need to know how to do is squeeze and pull. certainly at any 90 pounds, 100 pounds, you can do that. >> you need something that doesn't weigh anything except extremely on your conscience, which was the desire to kill innocent people. which was also exhibited here in horrible fashion. another question, aren't the investigators calling this terrorism? is this just about clinging to the specifics of that definition that you have to show intent was to scare the government or public at large? >> one of the press conferences yesterday, the assistant director from the fbi was talking clearly about a very strict definition for terrorism,

that the fbi uses. i think they'll be diligent in making sure that before they use that term, they're going to want to make sure they have absolute proof that it fits that definition. i think for everybody else, certainly the police officers involved in this, the general public at large, you know, that train has left the station. i think everybody -- how do you ignore the facts of this case? assault weapons, firing on the officers, the amount of ammunition, the pipe bombs. >> the radicalization if that's an as pact pect of it. >> smemantics. >> what do they care? >> i have a completely different belief about this situation. i think this is a christopher dorner situation with a twist to it. this is about workplace issues -- >> christopher dorner, he was also here in california and led a huge manhunt, very dangerous guy. he had been an officer.

cheryl? >> so there was tremendous planning that went into that whole thing when christopher dorner felt a grievance with the department. he spent many, many, probably months and years tracking the family members. so to think these people spent an inordinate amount of time preparing somehow means it can't be work related doesn't ring true for me. i think that probably because there was an ongoing situation in the workplace and maybe every time he felt offended he went home and bought another box of ammunition, prepared another pipe bomb. unless and until you've gone against a super power and i have, the lapd, and you have tried to do everything the right way and you don't get any cooperation from your supervisors because they wear you down or grind you down, you do things out of character. >> understood. understood. to be clear, we're pushing the discussion because that's what you want to do because people have questions about whether or not it's terrorism. to be clear, the investigators have questions as well. i know it's frustrating to many. they are not ruling out a workplace component to this. that's one of the questions that

remains. chief, sergeant, thank you very much for being with us. we'll talk more about the other parts of the interview. let's remember why so many people want this to be taken as seriously as possible. including if that means calling it terrorism. because these of the people and the families who will never be the same after this. 14 lives taken, 17 more now, 21 more, still fighting to are their lives. that's why there are calls to remember the people on your screen right now and who we will show you through the show. these people will never get to hear this discussion and their families have to live with what happened. we'll show you them to remember. we'll also talk about how we can stop this going forward with a local lawmaker. stay with us. now that we've added an adjustable base,

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i really believe we only live once, and so you need to take an idea that you have and go for it. you have the opportunity to say, "i've been part of the creation of over 27,000 units of housing," and to replicate this across the entire african continent. investigators have a lot more information here in san bernardino than they did yesterday. they still have questions about why this mass shooting at a community center happened in the first place. they're picking up the pieces of

understanding it as an entire community. why did this man have so many weapons? what was the motivation for him and his wife to make a dozen pipe bombs that could have created dozens of casualties. we bring in a congressman representing san bernardino. you're in touch with the community. here with them all day, had dinner with them last night. their concerns are obvious. am i safe? >> yes. residents of san bernardino, of the inland empire are safe. authorities are working hand in glove. i've been in contact with atf, police and communities in surrounding communities. >> the cell phone video of the officer assuring other employees i would take a bullet for you, you better know that. that part is solid here.

what isn't is, look who did it, congressman. they were muslims who did it. it's always muslims. is that 100% accurate? >> no, not on the facts of shootings but it is residents of the fear right now. what do you say to people? >> what i say to people, if there had been mass shootings throughout the united states this year, perpetrated by people of different races and what we need to do is not jump top conclusions and not fuel this anymore. we need to come together. this is a time where we can honor those families who are going through this tragedy. those 14 and those additionals as you mentioned, 21 families who are still struggling. we need to help them pick the pieces up. we don't help by fanning the flame of islam-aphobia or anything else. >> more than a few citizens of that redland airy and here in greater san bernardino have come up and they're scared themselves, scared for their safety and the perception of

them here. so the idea of community is certainly going to be tested. there's another intolerance, which is we want this to be considered the worst kind of murdering there is. for many, that's the word terrorism. it's not being applied yet by investigators, even though they seem to be learning more and more things that make that seem obvious to people. why not? >> i'm not going to get in the way of the active investigation that's going on. i've called this an act of terror on my community. that's exactly what it is. i'm less concerned about the legal definition of terrorism is and i'm more concerned about how this affects my community. i can tell you, when folks have to shelter in place, when there's gun violence going on, those are things that are difficult as a commune to the take. that's what i would define as an act of terrorism on my community. >> so what are you going to do? we've heard this little spin in the political sphere of thoughts and prayers are good but not enough. act on those intentions. what can be done that would have made this not happen? >> well, there's plenty of things that could have been done

from a policy perspective what we know. i'm not comfortable saying any one thing will end mass shootings in america. but i think there is so much more that we can do, first let's start by lifting the ban that the cdc has in actually gathering research and data on gun shootings and violence that's one thing that the federal government can and should be doing. in addition to assault weapons bans, in addition to making sure those on the no-fly list don't have access to firearms, those are things we should be doing and policy prescriptions that i hope are taken up in the future. >> every time you pass new law, who do you make it harder for? people who want guns legally. the this guy bought his handguns three, four years ago. >> i haven't met a lot individuals who have said access to background checks, gun owners support that, members of the nra support that. >> you have them in california, some of the strictest in the nation. >> we don't have universal background checks on every

purchase. we are three hours away from arizona and nevada who have very, very different rules and laws when it comes to gun purchases. we also have assault weapons that are sold and modified after market. right now, the important thing is to remember the community, to continue to work with them. there was a vigil last night that i attended with thousands of members of our community. those are the important things that we can do as we start to heal san bernardino and the inland empire. >> 21 people still fighting for their lives on different levels and hospitals. 14 families will never be the same, having lost what can't be replaced, their loved ones. we understand that. that's why we're hear, congressman, thank you for coming to talk to us. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> absolutely. we're still dealing with the main question this morning, exactly why, what led these shooters to commit the massacre? what did those closest to them see or not see? what do they know or not know? more interview with the lawyers for the family ahead. you'll want to see it.

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we have new information in the mass murder here in california. pointing toward radicalization and deadly intentions on a mass scale. sources say the male shooter was radicalized, in touch with terror subjects overseas. the feds are now going through his contacts. there were two smashed cell phones also record near the shooting scene. purportedly to destroy communications that may have been made by the shooters. officials now trying to recover that data. bomb-making materials, an arsenal of weapons, thousands and thousands of rounds of ammo, also found in the attackers home, suggesting an even bigger attack could have been in the making. so that is what we know from here this morning. there's certainly more answers, alisyn and michaela than we had yesterday but there are still key, key questions. >> we'll get back to you from all of that. we do have other news that we're

following. we have breaking news out of egypt. 12 killed, 5 others injured in this fire bomb attack on a nightclub, outside cairo. egyptian media reports say that masked assailants hit the club with molotov cocktails. authorities believe the motive was criminal, not terrorism. a senior european counterterrorism official says the trail for the eighth paris attacker, saleh abdel salam. this of course is not the first time isis has threatened the uk. >> german lawmakers voting to join the military campaign against isis in syria. the country says it will not engage in combat or launch strikes. it would help with reconnaissance missions and supply 1,200 support troops. this week, britain carried out its first air strikes on isis in

syria. the senate passed largely along party lines with a 52-47 vote. that measure must still be approved by the house which passed a different version in october. the white house said this week, obama will veto the bill if it reaches his desk. >> obviously we'll have more coverage out of california all morning but we will also have more of chris's fascinating conversation with the attorneys for the family of the killers. but up next, big political news to tell you about. there's a new cnn poll out just this morning. it reveals donald trump hitting a new high. pundits who predicted that he had a 30% ceiling were wrong. our panel will discuss.

a brand new cnn/orc poll just released has bombshell findin findings. not only is donald trump still in the lead, he's leading by a stunning amount. he's now at 36%, his all-time high. it's 20 points above his closest competition, that the is now senator ted cruz while dr. ben carson has slipped to third at 14%. let's discuss all of this. we want to bring in david chalen, and matt lewis, also a conservative commentator. great to see you.

david, let me start with you. pundits got it wrong. first they said 20% was his ceiling, he'd never get 20%, then he hit 25%. that would be his ceiling. then 30%. he won't get any more. last week it was 32%. today it's 36%. what's going on? >> what's going on is total donald trump dominance over the republican field. alisyn, inside this poll where you're right, this lead is larger than we have seen all cycle long, he's dominating on every issue. right? on commander in chief, on the economy, on how to deal with isis. you name the issue, especially an issue like immigration, he is the dominant force inside the field right now. yes, it bears out in these horse race numbers but it's even almost more impressive when you look under the hood at all those issues driving it. >> let's do that. let's look at some of the issues. isis, this is the issue we're dealing with today as we have been for weeks and months. who would be the best choice to

handle isis the poll asked? in august, 32% of respondents thought it was donald trump. he was still winning. today after all thoof tof these, it's 46%. the closest competitors are far back, cruz at 15%. how has donald trump convinced republicans that he's the best to deal with isis? >> the one huge thing donald trump has going for him is the perception that he's strong. frankly he's been back and forth over this issue, we should stay out of syria, let the russians do it or we should bomb the bleep out of that, that doesn't matter. the bottom line is, the perception is trump is strong. compare that to ben carson, the other outsider who has tanked in the wake of the paris attacks, for example. there, the perception this is a strong man right now. i use that term, the strong man of politics. that's really helping donald

trump. >> and david, i mean, this despite his controversial comments or maybe because of his controversial comments, in terms of syrian refugees, in terms of immigrants. let me put up the next part of the poll. this is the best choice to handle immigration. he has been dominant since september. he is now at 48% of republican respondents believe that he is the best to handle immigration, though obviously he has said things that people consider inflammatory. so how do you explain it, david? >> alisyn, he may have said things that were inflammatory. some people thought it was inflammatory or controversial when he pushed for mass deportation, take the 11 million undocumented already here, send them home, deport them. 53% of republicans agree with that position. a slim majority of republicans join donald trump in the push for mass deportation. it's not controversial.

that's a majority opinion inside the republican party. donald trump's able to ride that to what you just saw there, which is some 30-point lead in best to handle that issue. >> matt, i read the note. i know you predict when the smoke clears that you actually believe it is ted cruz and marco rubio who will be dominant. i don't know what you're smoking. here is what republicans believe. this is the best -- who they believe has the best chance of winning the general election. 52% believe that donald trump, not marco rubio at 15% who you predict or ted cruz at 11%, who you predict, donald trump at 52%. what do you see that they don't? >> look, it's not just me. nate silver, the guy who gets it right a lot of times, i think he thinks that trump has like a 5% or 7% chance of winning or something. i'm not alone here. i think there's really two theories of looking at this. one theory says trump is going to run away with it, he's ahead

by huge margin. he's been ahead for months. why would it change? the other theory says, this is sort of like -- think of sports. you have a regular season and you can go undefeated in that regular season. but once the playoffs begin, the rules change. the game changes. okay? so and this theory, what happens -- this poll we're showing is a national poll. guess what? we don't have a national primary. so what happens if cruz edges out trump in iowa and chris christie or marco rubio wins in new hampshire? all of a sudden now we have a scenario where trump is 0 for 2. what happens to his numbers? do they collapse? is it a village-type situation? i think it's entirely possible that trump looks great until the actual voting begins. maybe that's wishful thinking. a lot of us, i this i, adhere to that theory for now. >> thanks for a sports reference

even i could understand. great to talk to both of you. we'll have john king coming up with more analysis of the new polls as well. back to michaela. where were warning signs missed by the families of the two san bernardino shooters? their attorney says no. the family is not ready to completely accept everything that they have heard from investigators about their loved ones. we'll have more of chris's compelling interview with their lawyers, next. i have asthma...

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we are live from san bernardino, california. we do have new information this morning. let's get right to the breaking news. attorneys for the shooters family are speaking out. the family, saying that farook and malik, the male and female suspect gave them no indication that they would do something

like this. they say they are in shock like everybody else. but there is more information and context about what they're going through right now, what it means to the investigation. here's more of the interview. how does the family explain the developments about their son and brother, the activities in the house? the activities with the murders? how do they explain what's been learned about him? >> it's really challenging, because they never saw any warning signs or any real characteristics that would let them know that any of this was going to take place. so for them, they've alluded to the fact that sometimes co-workers have done silly things, made fun of syed's beard, for example. it's like there's so little there to understand or explain what happened or why it happened. and that's kind of what makes this fascinating.

there's no -- there's no connection to anything having to do with religion, although that's tried to have been connected to. it's just -- there's no evidence of anything, really. >> you know, federal authorities are saying they believe there is proof that he had become radicalized. you say that's not true? >> we haven't seen anything. believe me, we've met with the fbi and, you know, someone has alluded to the fact that they found something on the his computer that he may have talked to somebody who talked to -- or spoken with somebody on the computer who viewed something about isis but it's like, it's so tenuous, there's nothing really there. no one has been able to find anything. we were in interviews with the fbi for three hours today. and there was nothing found. as much as they asked the family, they couldn't pinpoint any warning signs, any aggressiveness on the part of

them. >> they're also flagging the travel abroad. does the family have any insight into the trips to saudi arabia and who he met there and what he was doing there. clearly it's raised suspicions. >> farook traveled as part of his hudge. he never traveled to pakistan. he travelled to saudi. >> you say pakistan. that's where his wife was born. >> his wife was born in pakistan. she was born and raised in pakistan. at the age of 18 to 20 she moved to riyadh. >> what do they know about her? this is highly unusual for a woman not just be involved in the planning but the execution of these type of murders. >> they don't know she was involved in the planning of this. she was conservative, she was a stay-at-home mom.

she was helping to raise the children, helped take care of the mother at the house. they were a very close-knit family. back to your original question, the family was in shock. they didn't see this over time developing or occurring. >> the development of the relationship with him and his wife, it is always hard in a tight-knit family to not understand how you don't know everything about each other. you're saying that is the case, there was a loner aspect to him, a change with him when he got married. how so? >> he was always conservative, always kept to himself. his wife, compared to the rest of the family, they were on their own little planet. they weren't married that long. they were kind of like newlyweds. the families, the sisters would talk to her and see her once in a while. it wasn't something they would be getting together every single day, everybody single week. they see her at family events, they talk to her, that would be it. >> was she known to have

different views on faith or on the world than they did? >> she was muslim and so are they. it's the same view. >> i don't know, chris. i mean, it's just hard to digest what the attorneys are saying where they're saying how can they be connected when authorities say that their house was like a bomb-making factory. is this willful blindness that these attorneys are exercising? >> well, two things. one, he says that once the guy got married, they didn't see him as often. they saw him at family meetings, not necessarily at the house. second, it has to be noted, the family is not under any umbrella of suspicion so far as we know from the investigators. all of their dealings with them have been voluntary. that is since the mother was first detained by authorities. and that was a little bit of a difficult process. we don't have any reason to point finger beyond what we're hearing right now, certainly the investigators haven't given any proof for it. >> fascinating to hear from

them. more of that coming up, chris. meanwhile, two mass shootings in the u.s. in less than a week. why does the united states have a bigger gun problem than the rest of the world? we're going to look at that, ahead. the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier

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another day of gunfire, panic and fear. >> that was a bbc explaining to its viewers how common gun violence has become in the united states. lets show you a recent poll. it found that americans are more worried about being a victim of gun violence than a terror attack. why is gun violence such a big problem in the united states? we put the question to bobby ghosh, our cnn global affairs analyst, managing editor. he's here to look at some of these facts and figures. we have a whole lot of statistics, bobby, to look through. one of the things we have to look at is gun ownership. let's take a look at gun ownership in the united states. about a third of households own a gun in america. if you exclude the number of people who own over 25 guns, the

average gun owner has an average of 5 guns. how does that line up with the rest of the world in terms of gun ownership? >> most countries where people do own guns they tend to own fewer guns per person than in the united states. that's a function of the united states. the united states is a rich country, people can afford to buy more guns. perhaps more importantly it's easier to buy a gun in the united states than most countries, most comparable guns. >> are laws are more lax about gun ownership. >> absolutely. most developed countries to own a gun you have to go through many hoops, restrictions, registration requirements which in many parts of the united states is simply not true. a person cannot only buy a gun but buy multiple number of guns and have them at home. >> let's take a look at how the united states stacks up, the countries with the most guns per capita, the united states is number one. it ranks number one in gun ownership. after that, yemen and switzerland. what is more interesting is how you see that in view of the gap

between number when and number two. this is really significant and kind of startling. analyze this for us. 88.8 guns in the united states per 100 people. for second place yemen that drops down to 54. >> again, you have -- the second and third place sort of tell the story of ease of access and the cost of owning a weapon. yemen's one of the poorest countries in the world. people who own guns are not going to be able to afford very many of them. and, therefore, you're much more likely to have one gun per family or several people. whereas in the united states, being a much richer country, people can afford more. >> people might be surprised by switzerland. >> switzerland is richer per capita. >> we don't think them as a violent nation. >> but they have the highest number of guns per capita in western europe and the highest proportion of deaths due to gun violence in western europe. they don't compare themselves to us because they're off the

charts. they do compare themselves with germany, france, britain. switzerland is off the charts. there's a lot of anxiety in switzerland we don't hear of it. there's anxiety and debate about whether they should allow this many guns. in switzerland, part of the reason ownership is low, is access. >> we have to compare the united states with a country like the united states that compares with life expectancy, education and income. the united states has 90 guns for every 100 people. nine deaths pr 100,000 people. while in the uk, six guns for every 100,000 people and less than one death per 100,000 people. what does that tell you? >> there is something to be said about a gun culture and how common guns are and how commonly guns are used. in the uk it's worth remembering that even the police, very few

policemen -- >> carry guns. >> -- in britain carry guns. even a lot of criminal gangs, in their criminal activity don't use assault weapons. the people can own guns. the difference between owning a shooting rifle or hunting rifle and being able to buy a semiautomatic, never mind an automatic, there's a huge gap there. there are not a lot of people in the uk or in europe in general that can have easy access to automatic weapons this talks a little bit to a gun culture. >> that is the part that i think so many are struggling with. we see the numbers, we see the data. we understand there are many people who believe they have a right to have -- to bear arms in this nation. what is the idea of what the cause is for all of this violence? >> well, it's a large country and different people buy guns for different reasons. there's a large number of americans who own weapons out of a sense of fear. they own it because they're worried that somebody might come and try to take away, bearing

arms themselves, from them what is precious and dear to them, life, liberty, their possessions, their family. a lot of people own guns out of a sense of fear and for security reasons. in switzerland, for instance, target shooting is a very, very popular activity. people own guns for that reason. >> not for protection. >> that's right. >> the fear is the concern because right now there's certainly a whole lot of that. thank you for crunching through some of the numbers for us. we appreciate it. we have a lost news to get to. let's start with it. >> 76 rounds, killing 14 people. >> the deadliest mass shooting since newtown, connecticut. >> it was unspeakable. the carnage that we were seeing. >> it is possible that this was terrorist related. >> it would be irresponsible and premature of me to call this terrorism. >> we've never seen the terrorists go to their workplace and kill their colleagues. >> he spoke with sympathizers

online, jihad day fi forums be >> the mother of a 6-month-old child with farook, she came to the u.s. on a fiancee visa. >> it doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of bonnie and clyde or something. it's ridiculous. >> to our viewers in the united states and around the world, this is "new day." alisyn and michaela are in new york. we are in san bernardino, california. where more indications point to wednesday's shooting massacre as terrorism on american soil. sources say the male shooter was apparently radicalized, pointing to his contact with terror subjects overseas. officials point out there could have been other factors in the attack as well. they are still measured in their findings. they also say they recovered two smashed cell phones in a garbage can near the massacre scene and a computer at the shooter's home was missing a hard drive. disturbing items inside the attackers' home. an arsenal of weapons, over a

dozen pipe bombs and other materials showing there could have been other attacks and more carnage planned. let's begin our coverage with cnn's victor blackwell, live in redlands, california, outside that home. victor? >> we learned from law enforcement forces that the fbi is interviewing relatives these two and they are cooperating. we're also learning indications of the ledges to which these two went to cover their tracks, apparently. more clues unearthed but still no clear motive. among the latest discoveries, two smashed cell phones, believed to belong to syed rizwan farook and his wife, tashfeen malik. also found, a computer with a missing hard drive. investigators believe a hard drive may have been removed or destroyed to potentially cover their tracks. they are issuing subpoenas to major service providers to retrieve information. >> if you look at the amount of

preplanning that went in, there was an obvious mission here. we know that. we do not know why. it would be irresponsible and premature of me to call this terrorism. >> reporter: law enforcement sources say rizwan farook seems to have been radicalized and had contact with terror suspects. the fbi and white house cautious not to rule out any motives. >> it is possible that this was terrorist related. but we don't know. it's also possible that this was workplace related. >> reporter: a raid on the couple's redlands home uncovering a veritable bomb lab in the garage, 12 pipe bombs, hundreds of tools that could be used to make more bombs and thousands of rounds of ammunition. these images purport to show explosive devises found at rizwan farook's home. >> they were equipped and could have continued to do another attack. we intercepted them before that happened within obviously. >> reporter: overnight, one of the first police officers on the scene of the shooting describing it as an unprecedented tragedy in his career.

>> it was unspeakable, the carnage we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe. >> reporter: hundreds gathering late thursday inside san manuel stadium in san bernardino to mourn. ♪ god bless america >> reporter: as the names of each of the 14 victims were read aloud. ♪ land that i love >> we have breaking news also in this situation. last night, late, we spoke with attorneys for the shooters' family. they say the family is very sorry, that they are shocked by what happened, that they knew nothing. also these attorneys share concerns about whether or not this is terrorism. in fact, they have questions about the facts surrounding the massacre itself. here is that back and forth.

>> where do you go with this in terms of how they explain how he went from someone they knew and loved to somebody who could do something so monstrous? >> there's a lot of disconnects and there's a lot of unknowns and there's a lot of things that, fight frankly, don't add up or seem implausible. i don't -- she was never involved in shooting. she's probably about 90 pounds. it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or do any of this. where the couple was found, from what i understand, they were handcuffed, lying face down in this truck, shot up. there's a lot of things that just don't make sense. you know, no one has ever seen syed with any of the things that they -- i mean, with some of the things they found on the scene. they haven't seen him with them. >> like what? >> the pipe bombs, for example. no one had ever seen him use or

have anything like that. and it just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of bonnie and clyde or something. it's ridiculous. it doesn't add up. they don't have the military skills to carry out something like this, really, frankly. >> authorities go back and forth on whether or not this shows sophistication or lack of sophistication in terms of how it was carried out. are you saying you're not sure they did this? >> i'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't make sense. it looks like -- if somebody had military training or something, yes, but there was none of that. and this person was not aggressive. we sat with the fbi for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way. they couldn't find anything. they were totally stumped, frustrated. in the media, some have said it may be work related, like he was disgruntled in some way.

but really, everyone is clueless. there's nothing that would characterize him to act in this manner. >> but to be clear, does the family have any doubts as to whether or not this was him and his wife who did it? because the authorities have none, as you know. >> i think the family's come to terms with the situation as the facts have been coming out and they've been very accepting of it. they send their apologies and wishes and prayers to everybody who lost their lives. and they've let that -- they've let that be known already. so i think the family has been accepting of everything that's come out through the media and through the police reports. they're very remorseful and they're very sad. they lost two family members of their own as well. >> i want to make sure i'm hearing the same thing from you. it seems like you're saying, it doesn't make sense, she might not have done this. >> as an attorney, i don't speak for the family and their views. they're not deniers in any way.

they were not affiliated with this in any way. they were really surprised to hear about these events, shocked. when they started to hear about them, they were worried for the safety of syed. they thought he might be getting attacked. they were completely shocked when they found out about it. so they're not denying anything. i'm just telling you, from an attorney's perspective in the cases i've had, the facts don't make sense. that's all i would say. >> that's the part i don't get. i know you're not here to plead the case for the people who did the killing, i hope. >> i'm frustrated. >> i think what david is trying to say -- >> the officers say they took fire from this suv, the people in the suv were him and her. that's kind of the end of the analysis of possibility. >> chris, as you know, as an attorney yourself, you do also understand we have to wait for everything to come in, not just bits and parts of the factual basis. >> give me a possibility. what could come in? >> i don't know what could come in. there's more information that we haven't received, you haven't received everything yet. nobody has. >> there's no question, investigators are open to the possibility that more may have

been involved in this attack but not less. this man, this woman, investigators say, are the murders. so there is more in this interview about what was known and not known by the family. we're going to show that to you. right now, we want to keep a balanced focus here, not just on the villains but on the heroes as well and the victims overall. so the officer who was first to respond to this shooting is now describing the carnage that he encounter. police lieutenant mike madden, on his way to lunch when dispatch sent out the alert and he rushed to the scene, assembled a team and entered the building. what he saw inside the conference center, he says, was something he could have never prepared for. take a listen. >> the situation was surreal. it was something that i don't think, again, we prepare for and they try to -- an active shooter, we talk about sensory overload, they try to throw everything at you to prepare you for dealing with that. what you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're smelling. and it was all of that and more.

it was unspeakable. the carnage that we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe. >> just because they're in uniform does not mean they're not human and they don't feel what everybody else does. remember, 21 people still injured, many of them still fighting for life in local hospitals. 14 people gone. their families can never replace what was lost. that's what drives the urgency here beyond the curiosities of the investigation. let's bring in james ramos, the chairman of the san bernardino county board of supervisors. it's good to have you here. of course not under these circumstances. now, when we look at this situation, the police work was key to this situation. they were there so quickly, that now investigators believe that may have facilitated an early

exit by the murders. and of course we saw what happened with the shootout. we saw what happened on the cell phone video with an officer telling frightened people, don't worry, i will take a bullet before you ever will. what's your reaction? >> i think the reaction is that the law enforcement commune here throughout this iria and throughout our region came together in unity. that's one thing that san bernardino county and the law enforcement agencies that we're highlighting and, really, making sure everybody was working together. when you see this coming together with the agencies involved, working so well together, starts to see how the law enforcement community is adapting to these types of situations. >> the people watching the shootout on television, all the cars looked the same. the reporting is seven different agencies were involved, local, state, federal and some 20 something officers were pursuing that suv, all of them in that way of fire that was very heavy, very deadly. what does that mean in terms of reassuring this community right now, which is reasonably afraid for safety of the ability to

keep them safe? >> i think it shows a strong ability of the whole region coming together, the unity of first responders coming together, to be able to respond to a situation like this. and to be able to support our first responders that come into these situations. but also we want to make sure that we do continue to support the victims and the families that have gone through some of these atrocities that we're going through now. >> you see this as terrorism? >> those are questions that you would have to ask law enforcement. i'm here more to make sure that the resources of san bernardino county, board of supervisors, are available to make sure the law enforcement have the resources and tools they need to make sure they can investigate, make sure there's a regional approach, the unity and community continues to come together. >> you're a popular guy. people will come up to you and people are going to say, what is up with not calling this terrorism? it's obvious. yes, there's a legal definition. i'm well versed in it. with these two perps, they're

dead. how do you balance this frustration with people thinking you're not calling it what it is, the way of doing it the right way? >> i think with law enforcement, we have to give time for law enforcement to be able to do their investigation. certainly in the first couple here in this case, the first couple days people want answers right away. we have to be patient, make sure we're doing a thorough investigation, supporting law enforcement in their efforts. our role is to make sure, especially here in san bernardino county where the majority of those employees that were shot were our employees. our message to our employees to let them know we care, we're there for them, to make sure they know the san bernardino county board of supervisors, the community, support them to see them through these things. one thing we can't forget is to make sure they know the community is standing with them equally just as the law enforcement community is standing together, that we're all in this together. >> that's such an important

concept going through crisis and just every day. and to know that san bernardino has been tested this way in terms of the immigrant situation. that's something that hit home here. i was hearing a lot about that from people here and last night and their distinctions of what they're feeling right now. there is a question of who are we? some of that is directed to the identification of muslims being involved with massacre. what do you tell people? >> last night there was a vigil at the san bernardino stadium. you saw all faiths come together through a prayer vigil. when these types of things happen, it's no longer us versus them. it's us coming together so make sure we're coming together as a community with as a people, standing together and being strong, not only for the community but the families that are affected. >> to test the idea of who is us and who is them. >> exactly. >> what do you say? >> we said us are those that are caring people, us is those that

will continue to care about those that are not done yet going through these types of things. we have families going through things, names are being read, released. that's where our focus should be at this time. until all that is done, very to make sure we as the people, we as the county, we as the community continue to keep those families, those victims at sendster stage and make sure all faiths of the community continue to pray and uplift them throughout this time. >> they're praying and they're also acting. people kept coming up saying what can we do for those injured? what can we do for the families who have lost loved ones? no question #san bernardino strong will apply to the efforts here. thank you very much, mr. ramos. >> thank you. >> having a community together, though this is never easy, certainly helps. in the next hour, we'll talk with someone else deeply affected by this tragedy. this is a heartwrenching image that captured the moment that

ry ryan reyes found out that his partner of three years was among those ma those murdered in this massacre. we'll share that with you when we come back. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern.

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imagine being one of the people inside these buildings, you start hearing strange noises, you're working, you think maybe it's construction. you hear an alert. there's a shooting under way. maybe it's a drill. then you learn it's all too real and maybe the shooters were coming your way. what would you do? we spoke to people in that situation, a normal day at the office that evolved into complete chaos. what was going on before all this happened? >> it was a normal day at work. obviously there was something going on. in front of the library there was a lot of cars. we knew an event was going on. we knew it didn't belong to us. so we just go into our offices and do work as usual.

>> at about 10:30, 11:00, when i was upstairs typing away, i heard this loud, loud, loud noise. i got up to look and i couldn't see anything. it looked normal. so then i hear my co-workers running, there's a shooter, there's a mass shooter in the next door building. so then i just got up and then i made my way with my co-worker and others into this conference room. >> did you know -- how did you know what to do? >> we didn't. it was just chaos. there was just rumors that it was the active shooter training. it was chaotic. we really didn't know what to do. >> people were crying. then i just felt like i couldn't sit there because i wasn't sure what was going to happen. i needed to know if the shooter was still in the building. i broke away from the crowd with two other gentlemen. we ran to a farther office and

that's when we were able to see s.w.a.t. getting there and then we could see the bodies being pulled. and we counted 12. >> it was very scary. we were in the conference room barricaded and just not knowing, not knowing is he in the building, is he even here? where is he? that was scary. i mean, we still didn't know by the time we were escorted out. >> try to relax, everyone. i'll take a bullet before you do. >> you were there in the moment when somebody was shooting. how did that happen that this officer wound up coming in? take me through that. >> we were in the conference room. people were trying to open the door. some people were telling others, don't open the door. who is it? a voice came over the loud speaker and we heard for everybody to come out. next thing you know, the

s.w.a.t. team came in and told us everybody put your hands up, get in a single file line. what you don't see on the video is the officer saying, talking to his colleague asking, show me your face. if you don't show me your face i'm not going to clear my hostages. at that point we realized that -- i realized i was a hostage. and that scared us because we didn't -- my thought was he's in the building. he's not gone. otherwise we would have just ran outside. he's escorting us out. that was scary. >> that officer, to make you feel comfortable to come outside, he wound up saying on that videotape, i'll take a bullet before you do. >> yes. >> what did that mean to hear that then and think about it now? >> you don't realize how much you rely on law enforcement until you're in that situation. >> they acted very quickly. i mean, it was very fast. and they were moving the bodies, trying to figure out what was going on. they didn't know if the shooters were still there. i'm sure they heard there was a

car driving off or suv but at that moment they were apprehensive and they moved quickly and were getting the bodies out that needed the help, or just kind of making it to get into the area. >> how do you make sense of what happened at work? >> i still can't. it's scary. we're not eager to go back to work. you know, to know that some of our friends are gone and to know that that massacre happened in the next building, it's not -- you don't feel safe. >> what do you think about why it happened? >> why it happened? oh, i don't know about that. you know, there's so many different -- >> do you care? >> do i care? i care about the consequences of it all. and how it's affected me personally and my family at work. and i care that, you know, that people are no longer with their loved ones and i care for the survivors. i care for the family members. i care for my co-workers.

and i care extra more for my family today. because i realize how lucky i am. i think it's important that the world knows that, you know, the little city of san bernardino will keep going strong. we have a good company and we'll all pull together because we are a good working family. >> yes. >> to imagine what they lived through, that officer knowing that gunfire was a reality for him, their uncertainty and yet they are the lucky ones. 14 people lost their lives. 21 others injured, many still in the hospital. let's bring in cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta with more on what we understand about the families and what endures now, doc. thanks for being with us. what do we know? >> listening to veronica and eileen, i think it was the confusion and chaos in the immediate aftermath. imagine you're a family member. you get a call from inside. this is an active scene still. you get a call from one of your family members saying i'm inside

the room here and i think i've possibly been shot. they're not even sure, that's how confusing it is. talk to four family members. pretty tight-knit commune. take a listen to how they sort of framed it. >> that hour of not knowing what's going on, is she okay, where was she shot? the not knowing was the worst because the worst thoughts go through your head. until we found out she was getting tended to about by emergency response and that she was transported here, then a very big sigh of relief, you know, to just hear her. >> the agony, the unknown. >> again, she got a call from inside and, you know, you don't know what exactly is going to happen. is she going to live or die? i tell you what else happened at the same time, chris, all these emergency personnel, people going in very early, active scene, doctors, nurses going in at risk to themselves.

also at the hospitals, there's an extraordinary preparation. we got a look inside. take a look at this picture here. >> wow. >> this was a real show of force. you had four or five doctors at every trauma bay bed waiting for the patients to come in. people who were not even on schedule to work that day showed up. this is often times what it takes. they see a lot of mass casualties here, usually from things like bus accidents. they've never seen anything fight like this. patients are doing well after these significant, significant injuries and it's because of pictures like that. >> you said a couple have been released. that's the good news. we'll look for more of that. sanjay, thank few yore covering this aspect of it. it arguably matters the most, those who are still injured, the families that will never get back what they lost. >> still struggling but looking good for them. >> the names are coming out of the 14 who were lost. we're showing them throughout the show. that's what fuels the urgency of understanding what happened here and how to try to not make it happen again.

>> it's too much to bear, actually, chris. it's unbelievable how many in just those seconds were lost. but chris we'll be back with you. obviously we'll have much more from san bernardino throughout the show. we are also following new developments for you in the race for the white house. there are brand new cnn poll numbers showing donald trump hitting a new high. john king will be here with analysis.

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we will have much more on our coverage of the san bernardino shooting in a few moments for you. first, we do have breaking news. a joint afghan u.s. special forces operation freeing more than 40 afghan security personnel from a taliban prison. nato fors saying afghan forces moved in after a helicopter assault, secured the prison. the liberated prisoners, include members of the afghan police, national army and border police. >> also breaking, a deadly fire bomb attack overnight at a nightclub in egypt. at least 12 people were killed, 5 others injured. masked assailants reportedly targeted this club in a neighborhood outside cairo with molotov cocktails. they believe the motive for the attack was criminal, however,

not terrorism. french frez francois hollande meeting later today with troops involved in the fight against isis in syria and iraq. he's thafling to the charles de gaulle aircraft carrier. french warplanes launching air strikes from the carrier ever since hollande declare d war on isis. under this decision, women will be eligible to join the navy s.e.a.l.s, the army special forces and other special operation units as well as the marine corps infantry. the marine corps recommended that some jobs be kept closed but carter overrode that the services have 30 days to give plans to carter. at least eight people were arrested as police moved in to

tear this down and evict demonstrators. let's talk about the big news in politics. donald trump on top of the polls in a huge way. >> huge. pardon me. huge. >> exactly. a just released cnn/orc poll shows trump is at 36%, his highest number yet. it's a full 20 points above his closest competition, senator ted cruz is now in second. joining us to discuss all this is john king, cnn's chief national correspondent. john, great to see you. >> wow! >> throw out the political playbook, burn it. >> the punditry got it wrong. >> i can't match your huge. both of you outdid me. make no mistake about it. i was talking yesterday to a republican establishment figure who back when donald trump in july said i'm getting into the race, zero, 0% chance of him being the republican nominee. i said what are the odds now?

between 40% and 50%. that's tells you what you need to know. we go to iowa, then on to new hampshire. trump has a huge lead nationally. he's in a dead heat with ted cruz in iowa and way ahead in new hampshire. at the moment, you had to say, if you looked at this field, who is more likely than anyone else to be the nominee, you'd have to say the answer is donald trump. that doesn't mean he'll be the nominee. he's way more likely, has a clearer path to the nomination than anyone else. >> the economy, all of the issues, immigration, handling of vices, he's ahead in all of those. i want to pivot to another part of the cnn/orc poll that we found really fascinating. the question about enthusiasm in the voter pool, registered voters, whether they feel extremely or very enthusiastic about voting for president. the republicans have a

substantial lead here, not that we're comparing in a race here, but 63% of republicans feel excited and enthusiastic about voting for president. and the democrats, a little more luke warm. >> part of this can be expected. we have a democratic president. why would democrats be excited about replacing him? democrats like (. republicans don't. the question is, does that enthusiasm gap carry over? ae we having that conversation this time next year? if we're having that conversation in october of 2016, republicans will have a big edge going into election. what does it tell you today? 412 days from now we'll have a new president. >> 412. >> we don't know who that next president will be. $412 day from now is inauguration day. republicans are fired up with replacing (. they don't like him. they want him gone. that's the one thing about trump. he's the anti-obama. when you ask republicans who's best on economy, who's best on isis?

who has the most strength? the donald trump, the last couple weeks, the reason he's going up, he's been in a direct national debate about president obama. trump said i'll bomb the bleep out of isis. president obama says let's let refugees into the united states. donald trump says no way, over my dead body. and if obama lets them in, he'll kick them out. >> i want to ask you what happened at a hillary clinton campaign stop yesterday in new hampshire. she got a question that she and her campaign must have been dreading about rape accusations -- old rape accusations about bill clinton. listen to this. >> secretary clinton, you recently came out to say that all rape victims should be believed. but would you say that about kathleen wiley and/or paula jones? should we believe them as well? >> well, i would say that everybody should be believed at

first until they are disbelieved based on evidence. >> john, what do you think? >> well, look, if you're going to do town halls you have to prepare for this. if you're hillary clinton you have to know at some point in a town hall someone will bring up your husband and his past. paula jones never accused president clinton of rape. juanita broderick accused president clinton of things he says never happened. hillary clinton has a clear path to the nomination while the republican race is in chaos. she does have to know, that over time, this is going to come up. it just reminds you, without the paula jones lawsuit, maybe we never find out about monica lewinsky. it's a sad trip for hillary clinton. not a pleasant trip down memory

lane but it won't be the last time something like this happens to her if she stays in the town hall environment. >> we have one final tidbit to leave you with. >> do we show the video? >> we talk about how donald trump gets rock star treatment at some of these events. there was this recent event, this is in manassas, virginia. this woman that you're about to see on the right of your screen didn't have a book of his handy. maybe she did. she preferred that he sign her chest. she was very excited. hold on, you'll see his body guards move out of the way and you'll see how delighted -- there he is signing it. now, john, not since i was at a bon jovi concert have i seen this behavior? >> hello, new jersey. >> look, you have to add this in. this is -- the donald trump celebrity, the reality tv aspect is something it took a long time to understand. it adds a wrinkle to the race.

it's part of the trump phenomenon, like it or not like it. >> it's there in indelible ink. >> well. john king, always great to see you. have a great weekend. thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you both. back to the search for answers in the horrifying san bernardino rampage. chris challenged the attorneys for the family of the guns, ammunition, bombs, that the couple had in their home. how do the attorneys explain the evidence left behind? hi i'm heather cox on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck. our truck? it's touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes. farmer: let's go boy. again this year the big idaho potato truck is traveling the country spreading the word about heart healthy idaho potatoes and making donations to local charities. excuse me miss, have you seen our truck?

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. you're watching "new day." we are live in san bernardino, california. we do have breaking news for you right now. we sat down with the lawyers for the family of the shooters. at point, the massive amount of ammunition and bombs the killers had in their home. does the family miss signs? how did they not know there is this kind of cache of ammo?

and if they did know, what did they think it was about? here's that part of conversation. you're not shocked to hear there's an equal amount of shock when they hear about the ammo, the thousands of rounds, the bombs, the materials. >> when people have guns and ammo, a lot of time when they're going to shooting and firing ranges, they do waste a good amount of ranges. having a lot of ammo doesn't mean you're planning an attack. they were making a point about suv he was renting. he's rented suvs before. >> help us understand that in terms of the weapons and ammo. this is america. we know people have their guns and love them. we know that he had on his social media he liked to take target practice but thousands of 223 rounds, thousands of .9

millimeter rounds. this is not necessarily normal, certainly not something that you would just casually dismiss. >> i can tell you as a gun owner myself, i purchase in the thousands of rounds easily, 2,000, 5,000 rounds. it's very common for the reason that the government keeps on changing their rules and regulations, their laws, regarding what is going to be permissible, what is not going to be permissible. very frequently certain bullets aren't available all the time. it's cheaper if you buy in bulk, especially if your somebody who does like to shoot target practice. if the munitions are available, often times you want to buy as much as possible. it's not telltale about any future plan or activity per se, it's being prepared or having what you need in case it hits the fan. and you're getting a better price. again, the flow -- there's

oftentimes certain bullets you can't have access to. they're not available because they've sold out or there are restrictions put on them or homeland security buys 200 million or something like that. >> understood. that might be what goes through your head into why you would do it. does the family have any insight into why he was doing it? >> i don't think this is a lot of munitions first of all. i think it was an average amount. i think everyone knows he just did this for target practice and there was no plan here. there's been no evidence of any plan. >> problem is, of course, he didn't just do it for target practice, right? he winds up creating a lens of suspicion for all of this. does the family know anything about the types of weapons he had? or where he got them? supposedly there were two long rifles that he didn't buy. >> he was a registered owner of a handgun. the he told the family he kept them locked up.

he didn't take the family to the firing range. he'd go by himself. >> what you're saying, they had no indication of who he was talking to, hanging with, idolizing, looking up to, that could somehow explain how his head got in a defective place. >> he had his religion. he was practicing his religion. there wasn't an idol or somebody specific he was looking up to. >> no extreme politics -- >> if there would have been something, it would have come out with the 3 1/2 hours we spent with fbi where they questioned the sisters and brothers. they were digging and digging and just became to the point of frustration. it became obvious there were no affiliations they were talking about, there was nothing on social media, no ties to extremi extremists, friendships or ties to any unusual groups who might -- who might suggest any

kind of that fionefarious activ anything like that. >> i keep coming back to if. i imagine victims and families of the san bernardino shooting are probably not listening to this and watching the news. that will be hard for them to hear is the -- somehow making -- not an excuse -- but saying people stockpile weaponry. that will be hard for some people to hear. >> crazy sounding. >> people want answers. maybe that ammo thing gets you down the road with a lot of people. that might be tougher for east coasters to hear. that is part of the culture in the country. the dozen bombs, the material, the idea that, hey, there was nothing there, no extremism? no. yes, there was. he wound up murdering 14 innocent people and shooting 21 others with his wife. there was a lot of planning and it's evidenced by the bombs that they made and the steps that tee took. >> what they found. >> there is some there. the question is who knew.

that's the question for investigators. maybe the family did not. we have no proof or indication from investigators that they are under any umbrella of suspicion. it's all been voluntary, the lawyers are right. they detained the mother early on. she has since been released. there are questions out there. a lot of this will be hard for people to hear because they want answers. hi. i'm matt mccoy.

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the investigation eers and r reporting have put out a lot of new information to process. and there are also only oddities. one of the shooters being a woman. in fact just 6 out of 160 active shooter incidents the fbi analyzed between 2000-13 involved a female shooter. is this a new normal? a window into a new tactic? and what do the other

developments mean? let's discuss with paul cruickshank and phil mud. let's start with the new information that there were two trips to saudi arabia. that sources say there is a concern he may have been radicalized because of who he was contacting. the cell phones found smashed at the scene. the computer missing a hard drive. where does this lead you? >> doesn't lead me too far. we are quick to blur the line between what we know and what we think. i'd ath add another fact in there. on the other side, why do you pick a target that has no political significance? if you want to commit an act of terror you pick a target anywhere from a social -- a cultural target in paris. that is a cafe where people are drinking alcohol to a economic target in new york, the twin towers that indicates you have a political agenda against the government. so we have some implications, for example, contact with

radicals that was found on electronic media that lead you to one path. another indication, an attack on a target that suggests you a lead down another. don't lose the distinction between what we think and what we know and we don't know too much yet. >> well, you know i'll tell you though phil, people are going to hear this and they are going to say what's going on with mud? how is this not terror? >> there is a lot of push back. what do you say? >> i don't care what they think. receipt me take you where the facts take you. if you a judgment of terrorism, i'd ask, can you confirm that you know the mental state of this individual and his act of motivation? i'm seeing schizophrenia on this issue. we're r we don't know the motivation but we do know it is an act of terror. you can't have those statements simultaneously. you have to let the investigation take you where it takes you. and it's taking us so far in different directions. >> paul cruickshank, do you

agree with that analysis what we know so far. >> absolutely. i think phil is totally spot on. we don't know what was in their state of mind. we may never know exactly what was in their state of mind. and with that chattanooga shooting in the summer, the head of the fbi recently said they may never publicly disclose the motive in that attack. it did seem back in july to be a blend of some mentality and some radicalizati radicalization. this may be a blend of a sort of workplace frustration, plus radicalization. what does that all mean not particularly clear. but it may be a blend of terrorism and workplace frustration. we'll have to see where the investigation goes. as phil is rightly saying. >> to button this up, two people who suggest that well, if you

hear "muslim" and radicalizat n radicalization, how much farther do you have to go? >> it is completely right their being cautious labeling this. clearly there does appear though to be an element of radicalization. and they will be looking at all the contacts this pair had over the years. and looking through some of the data perhaps now from the phones to see if they can get a better insight on why they did this. >> you have been suggesting for a while phil that not to have this kind of selective sexism when seeing who and who cannot be a target. the wife being involved here, as according to authorities an active shooter, what do you make of that? >> i make of the fact that there are two people to me is more

significant than the fact that one is female and one is male. when i used to see when we were doing fbi investigations, a sickle shooter, the first question is whether that shooter had some sort of motivation that was insane. as soon as you see two or more people in a conspiracy you start to say they're bouncing off each other. the likelihood they are just taking a step none of us can understand lowers. they were talking to each other over time. persuading each other that whatever motivation they had was a motivation that allowed them to murder innocence. as soon as i see two people it tells me that we're going to find motivation that has a level of rationale that we can understand, as opposed to just a single shooter where often you can't understand the rationale because that person is mentally unstable. >> investigators telling us the key question and who knew? you hear smashed phones, missing hard drive. what could that be a suggestion

of other than communications? >> it could be communications. but it could also be there is just something embarrassing to this couple they didn't want investigators to find. and that could be any kind of thing related to them. but certainly it is of concern. because it could be people that they are trying to protect that maybe were in touch with them at some point. but it could be any range of reasons and we should not jump to conclusions. >> look. very helpful to have someone of the status of paul cruickshank and phil mudd who have been doing these kind of investigations for many years slowing people down to look at the situation. this is our headlines. we have new information and a lot of news. let's get to it. >> after she heard the gunfire she dropped to the floor.

she was shot one time her lower back. >> after i got the telephone call, i immediately broke down and went into hysterics. >> 76 rounds, killing 14 people. >> having a good amount of ammo doesn't mean you are planning an attack. >> at least one of the sheet shooters may have been radicalized. >> how does the family explain the developments about their son and brother? >> why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i am in shock. >> we'll keep going strong. >> their loss is our loss too. but we're all one american family. to our viewers across the united states and around the world, you are watching "new day." alisyn and mick are in new york. we're in san bernardino where investigators may be facing their worst case scenario, a potential terror attack in america that they could not see

coming. law enforcement say the male shooter in wednesday's attack was apparently radicalized. they believe they have information that leads them down that way. but they are not where they need to be in terms of to make that as the conclusion. investigators have recovered two smashed cell phones near the massacre and a hard drive was missing from a computer at the shooter's home that is also suggestive in that direction. and also we now know what remained in the home that could take them in different dwrexs in terms of motivation. over a dozen pipe bombs. material. tools, proof they could be planning more. moments we're going to speak to someone who lost a loved one because the victims matter most. first our coverage of the information. cnn east victor blackwell outside the subject home in redline california. good to have you. >> good morning to you. the doors and windows here boarded up. indications that this phase of the physical evidence collection

is complete. we also know the fbi is investigating and interviewing members of their families to try to get answers about the motive. >> more clues unearthed but still no clear motive. among the latest discoveries two smashed cell phons thought to have belonged to the shooters. hidden behind a trash bin near a crime scene. also found a computer with a missing hard drive. investigators believe it may have been removed or destroyed to cover tracks. now issuing subpoenas to retrieve information. >> if you look at the amount of preplanning, there was obviously a mission here. we know that. we don't know why. it would be irresponsible and premature to call this terrorism. >> farook appears to have been radicalized and had contact with terror subjects.

the fbi and white house cautious not rule out possible motives. >> it is possible that this was terrorist related. but we don't know. it is also possible that this was workplace related. >> a raid on the couple's redlands home. 12 bombs, hundreds of tools and thousands of rounds of ammunition. >> clearly they were equipped and they could have continued to do another attack. we intercepted them before that happened obviously. >> overnight one of the first police officers on the scene describing it as an unprecedented tragedy in his career. >> it was unspeakable the carnage that we were seeing. the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be

safe. >> hundreds gathering late thursday inside san manuel stadium to mourn. ♪ god bless america ♪ >> as the names of each of the 14 victims were read aloud. >> a window into the horror and agony that has the community crying out why. that leads the investigators to search for motive and they are still reluctant to call it terrorism. why? they say they don't know enough, even if this man may have been radicalized. how do we make sense of that? what are the pieces they have jim? and what are the suggestions? >> you look at communications, you look at travel. particularly foreign communications, foreign travel. here is what they found so far for the shooter, farook. he communicated with known terrorism subjects by phone and

through social media. these are considered soft communications. that means he wasn't talking to recruiters or leaders with groups like isis or al qaeda but sympathizers. people known to the fbi but not necessarily operational. that is a distinction. it is an important one but doesn't rule anything out because that is also a known path to terrorist acts. the previous perpetrators of this kind of violence have done that kind of thing in advance of attacks like that this anded that often led to radicalization. another thing is foreign travel, i've spoken to u.s. and saudi officials. they say farook went to saudi arabia in july of 2013. this is during that same time period. we're also told by two officials

there was another trip to saudi arabia in 2013. and during that trip when we've been told he may have met his wife. let's talk more about his wife tashfeen malik. she's pakistani descent. they had a child. they dropped the child off in the morning. they said they had a doctors appointment. farook met tashfeen in saudi arabia. she came back on a visa. and after she allowed she got her green card, legal permanent residence. investigators have not determined definitively the motivation behind this attack. all these signs are interesting. they are important. they are not determined by themselves collectively at this point. and they are not ruling out workplace violence and they are

also not ruling out some combination. and to be clear there is some precedent for that. >> jim sciutto thank you very much. one thing we can clarify, they simply left the child at home because they lived with the shooter's mother. and she was just left there to take care of the child. takes you to the same place. and a lot of the questions go to the family. what did they know? what did they not know? they wanted to talk about that. but they also have their own concerns about whether or not this is terrorism and questions about the facts of the situation as well. here is that conversation. >> where do you go with this in terms of how they explain how he went from someone they knew and loved to somebody who could do something so monstrous? >> there is a lot of disconnects and there is a lot of unknowns and there is a lot of things that quite frankly don't add up

or seem implausible. i -- i don't -- she was never involved in shooting. she's probably about 90 pounds. so it is unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of vest or do any of this. where the couple was found from what i understand is that they were handcuffed lying face down in this truck shot up. there is a lot of things that just don't make sense. you know, no one has ever seen syed with any of the things that they -- i mean with some of the things they found on the scene, they haven't seen him with them. >> like what? >> the pipe bombs for example. no one had ever seen him use or have anything like that. and it just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of bonny and collide or something? it's just ridiculous it. doesn't add up.

he doesn't have the military skills to carry out something like this really, frankly. >> authorities go back and forth whether or not this shows sophistication or lack of. are you saying you are not sure they did this? >> i'm just telling you straight out, that it doesn't make sense. it looks like -- if somebody had military training or something, yes. but there was none of that. and this person was not aggressive. we sat with the fbi for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way. and they couldn't find anything. they were totally stumped. totally frustrated. in the media some have said that it may be work-related that he was disgruntled in some way. but really everyone was clueless because there was nothing that would characterize him to act in this manner. >> does the family have any doubts as to whether or not this was him and his wife who did it?

because the authorities have none as you know. >> i think the families come to terms with the situation. as the facts have been coming out and they have been very accepting of it. they send their apologies and their wishes and their prayers to everybody who lost their lives and they have let that be known already. so i think the family has been accepting of everything that has come out through the media, through the police reports. and they are very remorseful and they are very sad. they lost two family members of their own as well. >> i want to make sure i'm hearing the same from you counsel. >> i'm just el thing you as an attorney. -- telling you as an attorney. i don't speak for the family and their views. they are not deniers. they are not actually affiliated with this in anyway. they were surprised to hear about these events. they were shocked. when they started to hear about them they were worried for the safety of syed. they thought he might have been getting attacked. they were completely shocked when they found out about it. so they are not denying

anything. i'm just telling you from a attorney's perspective and the cases i've had is the facts don't make sense. >> that is the part i don't get. i know you are not here to plead the case for the people who did the killing. i hope. >> right. i'm frustrated about it. >> the officer saying he took fire from the suv. the people in the suv were him and her. that's kind of the end of the analysis of possibilities. >> we have to wait for everything to come in. not just bits and parts. >> what could come? give me a possibility. >> i don't know. but there is more information we haven't received yet. you haven't received everything yet. nobody has. >> there is no question that there remains much unknown but there is also plenty that is known. and one of the things that is known is that when that woman was in that suv those officers were taking fire and there was no handcuffing --. feelings are feelings.

it derivrives the family in a t of loss. and it also it drives our interest in everything that happened here in san bernardino. 14 families lost something that cannot be replaced. 21 others are injured and many still in local hospitals. one of those lost 4 2-year-old daniel kaufman. and when his partner found out he was gone it was 22 excruciate hours later. this madge as he learned of his loss. joining me now is ryan reyes. man, i wish i didn't have to meet you today in this way. but i understand what matters to you right now is that people know about your man. >> exactly. >> tell me about him? >> daniel was an amazing man. i know it is very cliche and i've said this several times. that, you know, people say oh

somebody's smile could light up a room. this was actually true of daniel. and it's even been brought to my attention that i didn't even realize the impact that he had on some people's lives. i've had people reaching out to me from all over that had met daniel maybe once ten years ago. but he had so much impact on their lives that they actually remembered it. i mean how many of us can actually say something like that. you know, you met somebody briefly ten years ago but can still remember that person. >> we have two people who were there that were in the show. they will be in the show again later and when they were talking about this, they could hold it together with what they experienced. but when they mentioned daniel and how he had run the coffee shop and how he had helped people in training, they got emotional right away. because he meant something. how does that help right now? >> it helps a lot knowing that he was so well-loved.

especially because i know that now means that he will definitely live on with all of the people's lives that he touched. and hopefully this will also teach people to maybe kind of pay it forward like daniel did to help him live on and make the world a better place. because i know the world definitely lost one of the better people in the world. >> you are in the shock phase of dealing with this. >> yes. >> unimaginable. that waiting, what were you telling yourself? >> i was trying to keep myself as positive as i possibly could. but as more information was known like specifically what building and knowing that he was on his lunch break when it happened and knowing that he would have been outside -- it was one of those things that just kind of -- even though i was getting the conflicting reports at first about him just

being shot in the arm but okay and in the hospital, at the same time i was also hearing reports of people did see a body laying by a bench that was of somebody that had been deceased. so i was hoping that it wasn't him. and it still hasn't been confirmed that he was the body that was outside. but that is kind of what we're pretty much assuming at this point because that is where he would have been. because he would have been outside smoking on his lunch break when it all started. >> how did you finally hear? >> i heard through his aunt. the coroner's office had gone to their house to break the news. and she called me and let me know that they were there and asked if i would want them to come see me. and i said yes, if you could. just so i could try to ask them some questions. but like i said, they didn't have the answers for me that, you know -- to the question i had about if he was the one that was outside or not. but yeah. that was how i find out.

and as you saw in the picture it was just completely devastating. the thought running through my mind was just like "no, no no no no. this isn't true. he's still in a hospital somewhere and just out of it and hasn't been able to reach us yet." >> were you trying to get him? >> yes i was. immediately after i found out i had tried several times. sometimes it would go straight to voice mail. sometimes it would ring and go to voice mail. i sent him numerous text messages. i called around to figure if anybody had heard from him. i was calling pathways. pathways is the one that actually runs the coffee shop. and i was calling his aunt. and everybody knew that if he was going to contact anybody he would have contacted me first. just knowing -- not that he, you know, didn't care about everybody else's feelings. but knowing that i would have

been especially freaking out, i would have been the first contacted him. >> you were his man. you were the love of his life. that's who you go to first in a situation like that. so when you finally find out, that it is what you wanted to know at least in the world, how do you make sense of how somebody like this gets taken in a way like this. >> i'm still trying to make sense of it. i think it is going to be a long time before i can actually make any real sense of it. the only thing i can think of is unfortunately it is events like this that really show you how important people are and how much people can actually impact other people's lives. >> what did he mean to you? >> oh he meant the world to me. he meant the absolute world to me. umm -- yeah. sorry. >> listen, i know that this isn't easy. and i know that this is a

conversation neither of us ever wanted to have. but i know it is important to you. and i know that you guys were very much in love. and now will that sustain for you now? >> well it is definitely going to be difficult to move forward. but knowing that he would want me to be happy and kind of carry on his legacy, that is kind of what is is going to drive me forward. probably going make me a little bit more of a positive person because i was very cynical trying to meeting daniel, just because i had already dealt with the loss of a best friend and a partner within seven months from each other a few years back. and so the fact that he was so caring and understanding and was willing to take things slowly because i didn't know how i felt with actually being with someone again and then, you know, almost three years later i was

considering, okay. maybe i could get married. even though that was the farthest thought from my mind when i first met him. >> love will do that. >> yeah. >> what a gift that would be. even though he's gone now you carry that piece forward. what is that memory that you have right now that you are keeping in your head so that you stay positive? >> the really silly grin he always had on his face especially when he was just chattering away. even when other people were tuning out. because that was one of the things that daniel did. he just rambled. so you would just have to tune him out. and actually when i was taking him to work that morning he was on one of those rants and i couldn't get a word in inch wise because he wouldn't breathe. you was da da da da da da about -- i don't remember what it was about because he would just do it about whatever. oh i saw this an facebook and da

da da. and oh only tumblr. and it's like oh can i comment on what you are telling me? >> now it was good that he dominated the conversation because you had that many much more time with him. hold onto the memory that makes you smile. because obviously it doesn't get any easier at least for a while. but ryan thank you for letting us know who was lost. that's why we're here. that's who matters and i wish you well going forward and please send the same to the family. >> thank you very much. >> so you are going to hear stories about who was lost in this. and you are going to learn about their families. and you are going to learn about what happens next. whether it is the investigation or what happens as a community. these were muslims involved in this. that means nothing to some people. and it means everything to others. so we're going to honor the victims and talk about what happens next here in san bernardino. remember those who are gone.

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there is nothing about the situation in san bernardino that makes it easy. not for investigators, not for the families of those lost or injured. and not for the muslim community either to be frank. here in california and around

the country they are dealing with backlash after another attack by a so called radicalized muslim. you just heard the family say it doesn't make sense. it doesn't make sense with his faith, it doesn't make sense with his behavior. and yet he is now representative of a great fear. joining us is the executive director on the council of american islamic relations in los angeles. thanks for being with us. you know the concerns. you know the fears. you know what this feeds into. what is the response of the community? we've heard from the attorneys for the family. we know they are hurt for those who were hurt and taken and they are hurt for what they lost as well. no matter what they did it was still their family. muslim, maybe radicalized. that means terrorist. here we go again. what is your response? >> quick things. being here, heavy on my heart.

expressing my heartfelt condolences to the loved ones of all the injured, all the killed ones. we're all one at this point. we don't look at the religion or the race of the victims. we're all americans. we're all human beings and my prayers go to those families and to all those victims. now, dealing with the shooters themselves, i think it is important we find -- the investigation is still going on. we don't know for a fact what motivated the horrific act. if it turns out radicalization was a reason behind it, i think we should be very careful not to link religion to it. radicals come in saul shapes and forms. terrorists in all shapes and forms. we shouldn't link a ledgreligio. then we are validating what the terrorist. we don't call the shooters in colorado springs a christian terrorist. >> i hear you. the investigators are making the

same point about not being sure what the direct motivation is. but they are also pointing to radicalization. but here is the push back. people will say the bad guy in colorado may well have been christian. maybe he was motivated by a perverse sense of his faith. but you don't hear christians, as often at least, coming out and saying i do this in the way of christianity the way we hear with muslims and drives a phobia. >> of course. but we have to put it in perspective. there are 1.6 billion muslims with a b in the world. when we allow them to hijack the name when they do the horrific act we give these people a credit they don't deserve because they are claiming to be muslim. they are claiming to be acting on behalf of muslims in islam and they are not. >> you are saying, saying that

you are muslim is not enough. i hear that often from moderate muslims in this country and around the world. and the task then becomes somewhat if this is then a battle of the soul for your faith, about what will define what is islam, what do you need to do to put down this insurrection on your own faith? >> let's not forget as we speak today, 95% of the victims of isis have been muslims themselves and let's not forget at the forefront are the brave syrian people, who are fighting on both front, the barbaric regime of assadsisis. and then we complain and say what are they doing to route out the terrorism? and when we support leaders in egypt or other places,

dictatorship, oppressive regimes that push people over on the edge and then they become extremists, then they become terrorists we are partly responsible. terrorism is the global problem. not a muslim problem. and the solution has to be global. everybody has a role in it. >> -- that he won't say islamist extreme terror. >> i think he's on point because he understands we do not need to alienate our allies. the 1.6 for the most part are on our side as we fight these terrorists. once we start blaming their religion, our religion in this case for myself, alienating them. >> i know many -- it is a distinction with those who understand the theology. not islam extremism, if you don't like that. but islamism, islamist extreme terror or radicalization, that would be accurate, theoretically

and theelogically, right? >> no it wouldn't be. adjective >> but that would be wrong because islamism is the own aspect of the faith that is more extreme. that is dated in its way and it can have non extreme and extreme forms and that is according to theologians and experts that is the category these bad guys deserve to be in. >> i still disagree for many reasons. there is no way to separate. try that with judaism. you will see. i think most of us have become desensitized when it comes to islam. we think we can separate. we cannot. >> so as soon as you say the word "islam "you are coloring the whole. >> that's daesh instead of calling it's call ing isis. if they catch you in --

>> the truth is they will kill you for anything. which is one of the reasons we are all so scared. this is an important conversation and needs to happen in many ways and different forums. thank you for having it with us. sorry it is under these circumstances. busy it is a conversation to have. >> much more on the developments from san bernardino, california shortly. we also have political news to go to. a brand new cnn orc poll has donald trump breaking through his previous ceiling with his biggest and widest lead in the race. we'll go through all the of the numbers for you. when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction

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a brand new poll out this morning shows trump with his highest numbers and his biggest lead yet. trump is at 36%, a full 20 points ahead of his next closest competitor in ted cruz. let's bring in daily beast

contributor and conservative commentator and a new book "too dumb to fail: how the gop betrayed the reagan revolution to win elections." okay. so this number is stunning. 36%. let's turn the clock back a month our to and look how everyone's numbers have shifted around because it is interesting. back in october here is what the numbers looked like. donald trump was still in the lead. he was at 27%. back then his closest competitor was ben carson. look at what's happened to ted cruz? his numbers quadrupled. and the rubio's have gone up. but do you think that the headline here is trump's dominance? >> no doubt that the headline of this poll is. because he's dominating across the board. it is not just the horse race. it is across every issue area. it is with almost every demographic group tested in the

poll. that is clearly headline out of this poll but you make some important observations there. ted cruz quadrupling his support national in basically a month's time is an important development in the race and it is not one to be missed. just as important as you say is jeb bush falling down fast, precipitously so now. down to 3%. so the landscape that donald trump is dominating, what is happening underneath him is important. because when we duet to actual voting he's not on the ballot himself. >> obviously the big story here is that trump continues to dominate. but this is a national poll. it won't be a national election in the primaries. ted cruz, who is rising at the

right time seems almost tailor made for iowa. what happens if ted cruz wins iowa and what happens if chris christie or marco rubio wins new hampshire? now donald trump is 0 for 2. what happens tost to the numbers? do they hold or collapse? it's possible that once the voting starts trump's support will disintegrate. >> obviously with the violence right now everyone is looking at terrorism. people are looking at who would be best to fight isis. all of these things come under the umbrella of who would make the best can commander in chief. so we have that poll. let's look at that. people think far and away that donald trump would make the best commander in chief and those responsibilities. 37%. second cruz, third coursen and then rubio and bush. what has he done david that has struck people as commander and

chief-like? >> he displays a strength at any cost. no wha matter what. no matter the policy specifics. he does not allow getting in the weeds on policy to get in the way of projecting strength and people perceive this as the strong commander in chief. and take a look at ben carson. i think that commander in chief perspective explains something. he's underperforming on that than even his actual level of support. he's 14% in the poll. but i think that helps explain why we see cars on the slide. >> matt, people -- republicans with college degrees and without college degrees. this is also very interesting. with no college degree, 46% of those republicans support donald trump.

everyone else the scales are tipped in the other direction. college degrees favor cruz, carson, rubio. whether do you see, matt? >> stark contrast there. and i think some of this is perfectly logical and rational. if you are a working class white republican, which is a lot of the base, you've seen your financial situation squeezed over the years. maybe you blame globalization and free trade. maybe you blame immigration. whatever it is. there is something that you could potentially blame. the american dream that they had of graduating high school and getting -- raising a middle class family has evaporated. so it makes sense they would be frustrated and willing to roll the dice with someone like trump. i think though with the risk of sounding elitist there is another side of it. i suspect there is a correlation between republicans who have a college degree and the ability to do critical thinking to be skeptical of donald trump. and i suspect college graduates might be less susceptible to

donald trump's demagoguery. >> i'm scared for what's going to happen to you on twitter. but i will be monitoring that. back to our top story, it is unbearable to imagine what was like to live through the shooting. ahead we're going to hear from the survivors. they describe the chaos, the fear when the shooters opened fire. (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most.

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some breaking news and good news, good news on the economy. the november jobs report. moments ago. christine romans has it. >> it's stronger than last month and this month looks pretty darn good. october, 298,000 net new jobs. and november follows up with another 211. this is strong jobs growth across a lot of sectors. the unemployment rate ra right here at 5%. about a 7 year low.

it's been there a couple of months. 5% on employment. indicative of an improving job market. what it looks like for the year. on average 210,000 net new jobs each month. that is a strong year. last year was a strong year as well. 260,000. wages start to rise. companies are hiring. they are fighting for workers in some sectors. again, something we like to see. >> i want to show you the sectors because this is important. healthcare has seen steady growth. physicians, surgeons, business information services. all kinds of office jobs, tech jobs, computer jobs. those have been growing well. and retail up another 31,000. as you can imagine it is the holiday season. stock futures are up slightly. probably means the fed will race interest rates. so these numbers reinforcing

what we're thinking. the fed will be raising interest rates. anybody borrowing money you are going to be paying a little more probably beginning of next year guys. >> but in jebl good news. thanks so much. second degr . back to our top story. next we'll hear from the people who lived through the fear and chaos. and since we all need more hope and inspiration this sunday we'll celebrate the top ten cnn heroes of the year in a special tribute. here is a look ♪ >> our heros don't rise, they soar ♪ ♪ i'll rise up ♪ i'll rise like the day ♪ >> renews your faith in humanity. >> love you. >> love you too. >> don't give up on yourself.

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really important to remember what people did and did not live through here. imagine become at work, hearing strange noises, maybe it is construction you're told. and then hear it is a shooting. maybe it is a drill. but it is not a drill. there is an active shooter and they may be coming exactly where you are. that is what people were forced to live through and they told us their story. >> what was going on before this all this happened? >> it was normal day at work. there was something going on

because in front of the library there was a lot of cars. we knew an event was going on. we just went into our offices and work as usual. >> about 10:30, 11:00 i was upstairs typing away and i heard this loud, loud, loud noise. and i got up to look. and umm -- i couldn't see anything so i looked normal. and then i hear my coworkers running. there is a shooter. there is a mass shooter in the next door building. and then so i just got up and i made my way with my coworker and others into this conference room. >> did you know -- how did you know what to do? >> we didn't. it was just chaos. >> there was just rumors that the active shooter training. it was just chaotic. we didn't know what to do. >> people were crying. and i just felt like i couldn't sit there because i wasn't sure what was going to happen.

i needed to know if the shooter was still in the building. so i broke away with two other gentlemen and we ran to a farther office and that is when we were able to see s.w.a.t. getting there. and then we could see umm, the bodies being pulled. and we counted 12. >> it was very scary. >> just not knowing. is he in the building? is he even here? where is he? that was scary. we still didn't know by the time we were escorted out. >> try to relax. >> you were there in the moment. when somebody was shooting. how did that happen that this officer wound upcoming in? >> we were in the conference rooms and people tried to

open the doors and someone said don't open the door. and a voice came over the loud speaker for everyone to come out. next thing you know, the s.w.a.t. team wam in and told us everybody put your hands up and get in a single file line. what you don't see is the officer saying, talking to his colleague asking, show me your face. if you don't show me your face i'm not going to clear my hostages. and at that point i realized that i was a hostage. and that scared us. because we didn't -- my thought was he's in the building. he's not even -- he's not gone. otherwise we would have just ran outside. but he's escorting us out and a that was scary. >> and that officer, to make you feel comfortable to come outside, he wound up saying on that videotape, "i'll take a bullet before you do". >> yes. >> what did that mean to hear that then and think about it now. >> you don't realize how much you rely on law enforcement until you are in that situation.

>> they acted quickly. it was very fast. they were trying to figure out what was going on. they didn't know the shooters were still there. i'm sure they heard there was a car driving off but at that moment they were apprehensive and they moved quickly and were getting the bodies out that needed the help and just making to get into the area. >> how do you make sense of what happened at work? >> it's still scary. we're not eager to go back to work, you know. to know that some of our friends are gone and to know that that massacre happened in the next building. it is not -- you don't feel safe. >> what do you think about why it happened? >> why it happened? i don't know about that. there are so many different, you know, allegations. >> do you care? >> umm, do i care? i care about the consequences of it all and how it's affected me personally and my family at work. and i care that, you know, that

people are no longer with their loved ones. and i care for the survivors. i care for the family members. i care for my coworkers and i care extra more for my family today because i realize how lucky i am. i think it's important the world knows that the little city in san bernardino will keep going strong and we'll have that good company and we'll all pull together because we are a good working family. >> yeah. >> so frightening and yet for these people they are the lucky ones. remember those 14 family whose lost something that can never be replaced. those who were murdered on the day of the rampage here in san bernardino. now we're going to continue our coverage here with carol costello right after this quick break. and remember those who were lost. we'll be showing you pictures of them throughout the day. did youn

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and good morning. i'm carol costello. reporting live from san bernardino, california. thank you so much for joining me. investigators are not willing to call it terrorism quite yet but new developments in southern california raise new questions about what drooef california couple to mass murder. law enforcement forces tell us farook appears to have been radicad.