>> don't miss u2 innocence and experience live on hbo monday night. thank you for being part of my program. i'll see you next week. good morning. it's time for a special edition of reliable sources. the love/hate relationship that's at a breaking point. donald trump and the media. first they doubted him. >> if donald trump is ill equipp equipped, he'll fate away. >> there's real concern this becomes a republican. >> then they came under attack. naki i naming names. >> he stood up and started ranting and raving.

>> no comment too brazen. >> you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes. blood coming out of her where ever. >> no insult too low. >> you have to see this guy too low. i don't know what i said. i don't remember. >> even fox news didn't know how to deal with trump. >> i think i've been treated fairly on fox news. >> with his sharp tongue and sharper tweets, he owns the airways even hosting snl. >> they're not bad. >> getting special treatment giving morning show interviews over the phone. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> sometimes he acts like he hates the media. he says they're dishonest and many are biassed. >> they really do distort. they are terrible people. not all of them, but many of them. >> yet he uses big media platforms to spread that very message especially the tv news. >> the people don't trust you, and the people don't trust the media. >> the media loves and hates him right back as ratings and page

news soar with every appearance. >> i go on your show, you'll get the highest ratings you had in years. >> first, it was the summer of trump. then the fall of trump. at this point, it's almost winter. now a possible turning point. reporters getting more vocal, crying foul. a chill has come over the press core. are his trumpisms catch up to him or is all this fact checking pointless? >> you're running for president of the united states. your words matter. truthfulness matters. >> you have a very good memory. >> the irony of this saga, trump is of the media. he's an insider. a tabloid cover boy in the '90 pps a reali s. >> a reality show ring leader in the 2000s, and now the star of the fall's biggest show, the primary debates.

trump knows how the media machine works, but does the media know how the trump machine works? is it enough to get him the nomination? today a special edition of reliable sources trump versus the media. we're deconstructing the complex relationship between the news and the megastar candidate it created. there's no doubt the donald trump show is the political story of the year. the media story of the year too. it hasn't always been a happy story for the press corp. how did we get here? what did we learn and what are we still missing? we'll talk with his campaign spokeswoman back from last week plus reporters who cover trump every day who try to fact check him.

let's begin with our panel of experts. rick, let me start with you. let me show you a tweet from cnn jake taper. he called it pundit fail. some controversy will finally cause him to fall and he has a ceiling. he as a ceil ing in the polls. it seems all of those predictions have been proven false. some have come from people like you, rick. where do you think trump versus the media stands? have we gotten this story wrong for the past five and a half months. >> the media need to admit they are in the dynamic with trump. the first time we talked about this in july, i talked about it was a perfect glove fit for the

media. the brilliance of roger is he knows good tv. why do you think trump is on sean hannity's show 17 times a day. that doesn't mean he's a guy to be positioned a great president of the united states, but he will gain that attention and he knows the more the bigger fool he makes of himself, the more you will just shovel it down because the trump show is great television. >> there you go. like trump using curse words. tell me why you're chuckling. i don't think trump is covered because he's a ratings magnet. that's one factor but there are many other factors.

we've never seen a candidate like him before. >> he is the front-runner. we haven't seen a candidate like him. win of the things i talk about in the book is it's a remarkable journey he's taken from winter of 2013-2014 when the media was treating him like a joke to now he's this front-runner. one of the thing that's happened and changed in the republican party and the media is that this entire right wing counter establishment has built up especially of conservative media ecosystem that incentivises the stuff he says. it doesn't matter how much he's fact checked, every time they do, it only strengthens him and reaffirms this idea that trump is fighting the establishment and he's the outsider and the media scared of him and trying

to take him down. >> we'll talk later this hour with one of those fact checkers. let me bring in dylan. it's one of the headlines that inspired this hour. it says the media is rising up against donald trump now. one of the reasons why the media is rising up is because trump strengthens our traditional role as gate keepers. do you buy that argument that the media is riding up against trump because he threatens us? >> i think there's some of that. i think more than anything the media is raising the white flag. all the conventional wisdom about how presidential campaigns should work has been flouted by donald trump. there's certain rules that apply. you shouldn't be offending major constituencie constituencies. the things you say should have some sort of basis in reality. if they don't, you should be punished for them. we have gone through things he said that should be disqualified and kicked him from his front-runner status, if not out

of race entirely. donald trump is playing by different rule, and the media doesn't know what to do about it. we're playing a game of rational thought and he's playing a game that appeals to voters emotions. >> donald trump's root, the kind of core support that he has is in in a deluded, almost fever swamp where there's not a lot of basis in reality for the birther controversy theories that he used to lay the political ground work. >> dismissive of a big part of the gop base. >> what's been amazing is how he's leveraged that base of support that was a pretty tiny fringe of the republican party to this massive spoupport. >> the real question is this is the long brewing split inside the republican party between

whether you're a limited government constitutionalist conservative or whether you're going to go out and chase demons like the birther conspiracy. there's this fun house mirror version of what they always criticize. they're all about a narrative, victimization. they're all about the elites, establishment, media, the rich are all out to get us. trump is speaking to that group. it's part of the republican base. you have to remember, we could go through the cnn rnc poll because they were independent republicans, however, he's got a base of support that's in a bound somewhere between 20 and 24%. it's been there for a while. it seems to be pretty sticky. once the other candidates in field start to shake out, you'll

see people who have trouble with trump. you see people inside the republican party. you look at republican women. they have a significant problem with trump. a friend of men who -- mine whoa prominent evangelical, it's going to raise a lot of questions. he was raised in the manhattan media bubble. he's not a pro-lifer. there will be people who will keep talking about these things and keep looking at them. they're not the most high propensity voters out there. some are, but a lot aren't. we don't know how many of these

people -- >> you mentioned the most recent poll. it's important to have perspective about where we are in the race. this was 2011. the difference this time, is that trumpb's been winning the whole time. we haven't seen that time of rise and fall in 2007 and 2011. >> every single week we have a moment where someone comes and says what rick is saying. the poll numbers are fine, but they'll go down. something about this isn't going to stick. this isn't going to work. we're not seeing that this time. if you asked many members of the media two months ago, will donald trump be the nominee, like many of those people in the clips you played, would have said no. now he's had this staying power. he's had this momentum and it's looking more and more like he

could be the nominee. i think he's running a hope and change campaign. >> he's got a very dark message. he has a very grim message. i'm the one strong man who is save the disaster of the country. >> if you're part of that group of americans who feel dis

disenfranchised and feel like they can't trust the media, he doesn't have to explain how they'll get better. >> the media is part of the them. that's one of the important things. the mainstream media. this is why trump gets so much oxygen out of us. he uses us as one of his enem s enemies. i think it's worth pointing out that his last sec filing is that they spent $2 million which is nothing compared to his competitors. we in the press have to ask ourselves are we unwittingly running his campaign for him by constantly covering him. no matter what we write, every headline that comes out ends up strengthening his message. >> i have to ask you about something that you wrote about last year. tell us about why he sent you a

$10,000 bill for a flight. >> i ended up going to his house in florida by accident, spending two days with him. i wrote a profile he didn't like. he went to war with me in a personal way. >> did you pay the bill? >> buzzfeed got a $10,000 dollar bill for my flight. i don't want to say whether we paid it or not. even at one point got a message from an opposition researcher who said that he had been recruited for project to take me down to look into my personal life and try to dig up dirt. this was amid the fall out of this. >> let me ask all three of you, times person of the year being named on wednesday. rick, to you first. do you think it will be trump? >> given the current media dynamic, it's almost certain.

>> dylan. >> i'm going to vegas, putting all my money on it. he has a better chance at that of becoming president. >> that's three for three. next, montell williams says he's a carnival barker but will be the nominee. the best of everything is even better during red lobster's ultimate seafood celebration. with jazzed up new dishes like the decadent grand seafood feast and the ultimate wood-grilled feast why wait to celebrate? so hurry in, it ends soon.

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the one of a kind coampaign has montell williams questioning whether america's best days are behind us. he knows how modern media works better than anyone. you've got to hear what he told me about trump. >> thanks so much for joining me. >> thank you so much for having me. >> do you think donald trump is a creation of the media? one of the top items on his resume is the apprentice. no other candidate can claim a reality show as part of the preparation for the candidacy. >> whether than thinking trump created this, we created him. go back to 2000. there were only four or five reality shows. jump start to 2013-14, there are over 350 of them and they are all conflict driven. we have women in our society

punching other women in face. women who are socialites turning over table, people spitting in people's faces. everything is a conflict. then you have donald trump put people in charity situations in conflict situations. people applaud that and watch that. why would he not tap into that. he's here to stay. it's the way america wants to receive its information. everybody was all, i think, agats or puzzled. do not be puzzled. he'll be the republican nominee. you'll have to figure out whether america accepts his same platform. >> you said he's a carnival barker and a punk, you're saying

he'll be the nominee. he is in this to the end. >> were you surprise bd by the rer reaction when he was talking about registering muslims. he said his comments were taken out of context and he wasn't really understood. were you surprised by the reaction to it and the fact that not every one of his rivals came out and condemned him about it? >> i was shocked at his comment and then by ben carson's comment referring to people as if they are some sort of wild animals. look, we can make our points about our concerns without having to be so divisive. there are muslim american who is have worn our uniform and taken bullets for this country.

to condemn an entire race is ignorant. >> receive seen controversial retweeted. this was very racially charged. fs implying that blacks kill many more writes. what did you make of it. did you think he should dliet it or apologize for it. >> i wish he would have handled it the way he claims that it went out. i wish he would have handled it differently. at the end of the day what i was happy about is that that was like the turning point for yourself and, not for you but a lot of your peers out here

reporting this every day. i was happy that everybody paid attention and jumped on it to say pants on fire which we seem to be doing almost every other day and it doesn't matter. >> there has been more fact checking and it's because some of the things he's retweeted or said at rallies or said in interviews are very clearly untrue and thus pretty easy to fact check. there's that double edged sword. i get it. people are trying to report on the news and make a point. one of the the problems that you have is if you make too big of a point in one direction then the media is doing nothing but

attacking donald. i would hope that more of you just like yourself and others, continue to do what you've been doing for the last couple of days and that's show america this should be about truth and you're going to go after the truth to make sure you report it. >> we were talking about twitter and trump has shown social media prowess. will the history books call him the first social media president? we contacted folks at facebook and they say 16 million people have liked of shared posts about trump more than 69 million total. that's more than any republican candidate and more than hillary clinton. up next, what's behind the

staggering social media numbers and what is it the media still doesn't get about trump? his campaign spokeswoman will join me next. she's standing by. we'll talk with one of the nation's top fact checkers about what it's like to cover the candidate who shatters all the rules. other wireless carriers make families share data. some way to say happy holidays. switch to t-mobile now and get up to 4 lines with up to 6gb each. just $30 bucks a line, that's 6gb each plus unlimited video streaming with binge on™. stream netlfix, hbo now , hulu and more without using your data. and now unwrap the samsung galaxy s6 for $0 upfront and just $10 bucks a month. this year tear into the holidays with t-mobile.

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my kids and their friends live in this community. every time i go to a customer's house, their children could be friends with my children so it's important to me. one of the most rewarding parts of this job is after you help a customer, seeing a smile on their face. together, we're building a better california. i think it's safe to say donald trump does not have a high opinion of us in the press. here is just a taste from a speech in iowa yesterday. >> they all want us to do badly because the press is unbelievely

dishonest. there's some good ones but most of them. i think i'll write a book about them when this whole thing is finished. >> dozens have reached out to the campaign wanting books. it's her job to work with us in the dishonest media. she's the trump campaign's national spokesperson. good morning. thank you for being here. >> good morning. great to see you. >> let me play the media. pla explain to me why people like me don't understand donald trump. what is it the media doesn't get? >> this is just human beingings. not eve not every interesting person is liked. you have the media whining because he isn't playing by their rules. these don't apply to democrats.s

>> what's example? >> we didn't see coverage on cnn wall to wall when the administration came out saying they wanted to add biometrics to the vetting process. we did hear from for two weeks that donald trump wants a database for these refugees and it was insanity. we don't hear back to back on cnn about hillary clinton lying. she blamed an american citizen who made a video. we talked about a head count when muslim celebrated 9/11. i think that goes to show the dishonesty in media. >> you said muslims celebrated 9/11. don't you mean a small number. >> i mean radical muslims celebrating in america. >> how many? >> that video you were talking about in iowa.

msnbc said that donald trump rou abruptly left the stage. the full video is out there on youtube. he talked for an hour, took questions and answers and continued to shake hands and sign books and shirts and hats. that's completely dishonest. >> i did see last night he said to the nbc correspondent should be fired. i can't remember another candidate that would call for a reporter to be fired. did you agree with that call? >> i agree there's dishonesty in the media. you're not doing your job, you should be fired. >> what do you view the job of the press to be? do you believe we should be fact checking the comments that mr. trump makes? >> when is the last time you fact checked barack obama lately. >> that happens all the time. >> hold on.

are you telling me that you fact check global warming as the cause of radical islamic terrorists? you fact check that. >> i wouldn't say it so vaguely. >> did you fact check gun control, the california gun control laws? did you fact check that california gun control laws would have prevented a terrorist attack? >> if you're calling for more fact checking, i'm with you. do you think media and political elites are disconnected from that? he's super charged by non-college educated people. >> many of us have college degrees. it comes from the elitist who think they know more than everyone else like barack obama

and hillary clinton who want to play this jedi mind trick. the echo chamber is also not the answer because most conservatives are not watching cnn. the problem we have here is that people are starting to see through the media bias. people know for a fact that the answer to keeping americans safe is not to disarm them. that's what the media and the elites don't understand. >> let me play a portion of mr. trump's interview on bill o'reilly show. >> sometimes when you're up there, you get overly excited and you're speaking extemporaneously. you say things as anybody would because the crowd is cheering and everything is going wild that you don't know to be true,

but you believe to be true, but you don't know it. >> i would love to read speeches off of a teleprompter. you don't get the same excitement and feeling. i haven't made very many mistakes. >> i'm partially using a prompter, partially not. i do have issue that he would rather be exciting than telling the truth. >> he wasn't reading an intelligence report and lying about it like the current commander in chief and hillary clinton do. he's speaking from the heart. americans appreciate that. they don't want these ivy league people that pay thousands of dollars to be told what they want to hear. they want to hear somebody that's real and true. the fact he's been around for so long, he knows what he's talking about, he means it and people want someone that will go out

there and be real with the american public for change. >> you expect honesty from the press, shouldn't we expect honesty from mr. trump. he did say thousands cheered on 9/11 and that's not true. >> can you prove it's not true? >> there's no documentation, no video, photo, police report, crime reports. >> there's no police reports. are you sure about that? maybe you should fact check that and we'll talk about that next time. >> i would like to see them be same way that donald trump repeated. >> former fbi agent confirmed, former police commissioner. >> one random news report. >> you had the ap, new york post. come on. this is why the people don't trust the media. the information is out there for wide range. it's out there. that's why people don't trust the media. >> the media is these random

stories are mentioning the fbi agent. that's a media report came from a local tv station. it doesn't prove anything. it's one person's claim. it was a media report. would you knowledge -- >> there are reports. are there reports or not? >> there's a couple of news stories that you have used. >> there's a couple, not just one. you just said one, now you say a couple. how many is it? >> i don't have the exact number. it might be four or five. >> it matters. it definitely matters. >> let me pivot because i don't want to go down a rabbit hole when we can't agree on the facts. whether you would agree the press has played a role in boosting trump's campaign through constant coverage? would you acknowledge we're part of the success? >> i think the media's definitely gone out of their way to cover everything that trump says to make him look very negative, which is why it's

backfired so much. that's with any campaign. the difference here is in previous presidential cycles, you've had the establishment spin millions of dollars of attack ads to sort of tear down a candidate. that's not working either. i really wouldn't give the media all the credit here. >> the last question i have for you is this one. it's something that really worries me when i hear him calling the press unbelievely dishonest and calling for a reporter to be fired. he's eroding trust in the press. >> i don't think mr. trump is doing that. >> polls show that a lot of people distrust the media. >> he is increasing that distrust. >> the media probably should be a little more honest if that's the case. i just gave you several examples of how the media has skewed reporting with regards to mr.

trump. it's not just mr. trump. it's republicans in the past. if you look at the media coverage even from the election of barack obama, they have been covering him not fact checking anything hillary clinton or barack obama says. people can take a look around and realize they have not been told the truth and the media has not been reporting accurately on practically everything this president has done. >> i think we can agree more fact checking is a good thing. thank you for being here. >> thank you. fact checking columnist will be here. stay tuned.

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ncht they put their families on

airplanes a couple of days before. sent them back to saudi arabia. they wives knew what would happen. they went home to watch their husbands knock down the world trade center, pentagon and where else the third plane was going. those wives knew exactly what has happening. >> is that the truth or a trumpism? some of the hi jackers were in relationships but were not. we can find no corroborating evidence to find their wives flew to saudi arabia before the attack. do you have any evidence for this idea that the wives left the country before the attack? >> not at all. clearly he didn't read the commission report. one had a girlfriend he

communicated with. she was shocked to find out what had happened. there's no evidence to support that state. let me ask you about what is different when it comes to donald trump. every candidate makes misleading statements. >> he continues to double down on every misstatement he makes. for instance, in the last campaign cycle, mitt romney used to say that americans were the only citizens on earth who put their hands on their hearts during the playing of the national anthem. after i showed that was wrong, he just stopped saying it. other candidates might slightly adjust their statements in response to fact checks. what donald trump does is he actually insists that he is right and goes onto say that because people are tweeting at

him that he's right, of course he's right even when there's no factual basis for any of his statements. >> using the tweets to reenforce him. you're not trying to change his behavior. you're trying to make sure the viewers and voters know the truth, is that true? >> that's right. fact checks are not written to change politicians behavior. fact checks are intended to inform voters. they can do with that information what they wish. in the case of trump, it's actually not that great fun fact checking him. >> no? >> a good fact check is like a mystery story where you spend a lot of time to try to unravel how the politician had concocted this particular statistic in way that was misleading. with trump, the statements he makes are so absurd that you can instantly find out why it's wrong and how it's wrong. it's not that interesting, frankly. >> i'm surprised to hear you say that. thank you for joining us this

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because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. donald trump is a story for the ages. he's a great story teller about himself and his story keeps changing. he commands hours and hours of coverage, including this one. but we have to note the imbalance. look at this. from the nightly newscasts all yearlong, trump has received 234 minutes of coverage. that's four times as much as jeb bush and ben carson. marco rubio is barely on the screen. let's talk about this with someone who has unique insight, dan abrams. the founder of the a great

website. when you see that data, it makes perfect sense on one level. >> he's much more interesting than any of the other candidates. he says things that are more interesting. as a result, it's not that surprising. look, we have to start in the media treating donald trump as the republican frontrunner. >> you think still -- >> i think a lot of them still want to treat him like a clown, like a reality show guy. the bottom line is, he is the republican frontrunner. as of today, he is the likely candidate to be running against hillary clinton. i know a lot of the media don't want to accept that. they don't want to take him seriously. the bottom line is, he has to be taken seriously now. >> do you chuck the dismiss sieve treatment to media bias or something else? >> it's both. it's both a bias and there's also the fact that he's making

certain things up. then you go and fact check it, it turns out it's not true, and no one cares. >> they are bringing their own facts to the table, literally. >> what she did to you, she's turning it on you. you're saying there is absolutely no proof there was thousands of muslims cheering of 9/11. she says, what proof to you have. it's not the media's job to prove that they're aliens. it's our job now to see if there's any evidence out there. there is no evidence out there that it happened. as a result, the media can say, it's not true. and we're going to keep saying it's not true until you who said it come to us and show us we're wrong. >> i think we've got to with listening to trump supporters and spokes people. in fact, i think we need to hear

more from trump supporters. we've been missing the voices of ordinary voters. >> i think the one thing the media needs to do better is not just fact check. but then once the check has been done, to not say on the one side and on the other side. once it's clear there's no evidence to support it, the media has to say that. the bottom line, if it's not true, it's not true. if there's no evidence, there's no evidence. it's the media's responsibility to say that when they're talking about some of the outrageous comments that trump makes. >> at the same time, we all have to keep in mind, the media benefits enormously from trump. here's a tweet from earlier in the week, congratulations chuck for the high ratings. >> you played it earlier in the show. >> john dickerson was on "face

the nation today". >> trump recognizes and is right that when he's on the ratings are up. >> for media, the highest trafficked articles -- >> trump is great for it. i own a business. it's great for the business when we cover trump. but a lot of the reporters get annoyed about it. they say, wait a second, a lot of what he's saying isn't true, so why do we cover the guy so much? we as a business love it, but the reporters are saying, yeah, as a principle how do we allow ourselves to cover him so much. we'll be right back with more "reliable sources." switch to t-mobile now and get up to 4 lines with up to 6gb each. just $30 bucks a line, that's 6gb each plus unlimited video streaming with binge on™. stream netlfix, hbo now , hulu and more without using your data.

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thanks for watching our special edition of "reliable sources." stay tuned because "state of the union" with jake tapper starts right now. a new terrorist attack. three people stabbed on the london tube. this after the massacre here that left 14 dead. the fbi searching for answers. >> there's a lot of evidence in this case that doesn't quite make sense. >> how did the california couple become radicalized. what can be done from stopping it from happening again. marco rubio will tell us his plan. and with america on edge, the president will address the nation tonight. on the day of the