tonight britain's former prime minister tony blair tells me that to eradicate isis you've got to go all in. and he opens up about the pain of the iraq war. >> i feel a huge amount of challenge and pain about the situation to be experienced since 9/11, which is still the worst terrorist atrocity the world has seen. and what's politics without satire? my interview with the comic genius sarah silverman as phenomenon any woman gets a big nod from hollywood's screen actors guild.

>> good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour in london. tonight we're tackling terrorism on all fronts from alarming arrests to high alerts to the evolving military strategy against isis. the u.n.'s european headquarters in geneva has now beefed up its security as the swiss say, they have received a precise threat. a source tells cnn the police are hunting for five suspects as a broader part of investigations into last month's paris attacks. while in australia, a 15-year-old high school student is among five people charged with conspiracy to plan a terrorist attack against sydney, allegedly against government buildings. well, few politicians know more about taking on terrorism than

former british prime minister tony blair. but equally, few are as tarnished by the iraq war hangover. still, blair says the western and its middle east allies must go all-out to defeat what he calls isis and its modern form of fascism. he joined me here in the studio to talk strategy. and i asked him whether he accepted that the u.s. and the uk remain so scarred by the u.s. war debacle that they've kept a hands off syria policy. tony blair, welcome to the program. you have said that you support isis being defeated by all means necessary. right now there is an air campaign against isis with a little bit of ground forces. that enough? is that all means? >> it probably won't nt be enough. and we have to defeat them by whatever it takes to defeat them and the idea of the so-called caliphate. they've got to be defeated completely and defeated in syria and iraq and libya and other places where they are. now actually as a result of what

the americans in particular have done in these last weeks, there has been a stepping up of the support for a ground campaign. and you need a combination of air strikes and a ground campaign. it doesn't always need to be our people or our so-called boots on the ground. but you won't defeat people like isis unless you're engaging with them on the ground as well as by air. and indeed, the coordination between those two parts of the operation is extremely important. >> so you mentioned in the united states obviously there has been testimony. ash carter has been before congress, and he got quite a lot of people both on the republican side and the democrat side to say, well, we kind of have all come to the conclusion that we need to put ground troops there. but people accused him and the administration of being too timid, of not going far enough, of not having a strategy. do you think that's true that the united states, britain, the coalition doesn't actually have a strategy yet? >> well, i think we've got an objective that's very clear.

i think we're developing the right strategy to defeat it. by the way, every time america steps up, the support on the ground for the air campaign it becomes immediately more effective. so it's very simple to me. you have to defeat isis, and you have to defeat them by whatever means is necessary, because that is an important part of defeating this whole wider ideology. so wherever they are and by whatever means, we have to make sure that we obtain the objective we set ourselves. and it's not that we have to, as i say, always have our boots on the ground or tens of thousands of force, but we have to have sufficient capability and sufficiently strong and effective capability that they are constantly under attack, being pushed back until they can finally be driven out. >> it has to be said that many in the united states are saying now, and here obviously, that because of the debacle that was iraq and the post iraq mess,

basically, that the west is scarred. that the people of great britain, the people of the united states, the president of the united states are presumably, you know, politicians all over europe. they're scarred by that. and that's why they haven't done the kinds of things you're suggesting now that others have suggested as well. do you accept that? >> i accept, of course, that the experience we went through post-9/11 with afghanistan and then iraq, of course we live with the lessons of that and the pain of it. on the other hand, it's important that we learn from that experience and don't become incapacitated by it. because since afghanistan and iraq, we've had libya, a partial intervention, and syria effectively until recently, not much western intervention. libya today is a problem for the whole of that part of northern africa, indeed leeching across into the middle east. and syria is really a catastrophe. which is not just cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of

people, but it's got the biggest refugee crisis since the second world war. ultimately we need to get to what i would call a new foreign policy synthesis, if you like. if people think well, the problem of the first period of policy making is we were intervening too heavily, and probably we didn't fully understand the depth of the forces we were up against at that point in time, we've also got to learn the lessons to the reaction to that. >> when you see and what you see what we're faced with, we citizens of the world are faced with today, this, as you call it fascism, these innocents who are slaughtered in paris or in san bernardino or in beirut, the people who were killed on the russian plane, and, and, and, and. do you feel pain? do you feel a sense of responsibility that people still point to what you did and what bush did and they say never again. we are not going there. so lives are being lost because of what you all did. >> right. but i think at some point -- >> it's just a question. >> sure, i understand.

but at some point we have to -- >> do you feel that pain? >> i feel a huge amount of challenge and pain about the situation that we've experienced since 9/11. which is still the worst terrorist atrocity the world has seen and came before any foreign intervention. you know, when you've got boko haram in nigeria and across subsaharan africa, you've got other groups, al shabab, groups in central asia, groups in the far east, at some point we've got to realize we didn't cause this problem, we got caught up in it. and we're caught up in it now. and really, what i've been trying to say to people is that when you learn the experience, not just of afghanistan and iraq, but of libya and syria, certain lessons are very clear. intervention is tough. partial intervention is tough. nonintervention is tough. to solve the answer sits going to be a long, hard fight. but you have to deal with the

broader ideology that gives rise to this fanaticism not just the fanaticism. >> you say a long hard fight. but is the real fight taking place? i want to play for you part of an interview i did with the former deputy cia chief mike morel. just listen to what he told me. >> it's not that it's too late, christiane, it's that it's too little. we need to train ground troops in very large numbers if we're going to be able to take back territory from isis in syria. and what i fear is we're going to be successful in iraq. we're going have a hammer in iraq, but no anvil in syria. so the isis guys are just going to go across the border into syria, and they're going to have a safe haven in eastern syria, where they're going to be able to continue to plot. and that plotting will include plotting against us. >> well, they're actually prophetic words. because that is a few months ago and this is exactly what happened. so how does this fight have to be waged? we've been told oh, there aren't any moderates. we can't train up the moderates.

oh, we can't put a no-fly zone. that's too dangerous. how do you win this fight? >> we can do some of those things. well could have. indeed, i said this three years ago now, we should have built a no-fly zone, a safe haven for the opposition to congregate for the refugees to go. >> so you think obama has the wrong strategy? >> if i think you want a strategy that genuinely eliminates this so-called caliphate, you are going to have to not merely have the ability to strike by air, but you have to have the ground force capability that can be done supporting local forces. but you have to have it there. you have to provide for the syrian opposition, because the root of this problem is what is happening in syria. but it's what mike morel is saying there is absolutely right. we've got to get in our heads. if this is a battle, we really are determined to win, we have to will the means as well as the end. >> all of this you're talk about, the fallout has entered the presidential race in the united states to the point that donald trump, who is leading

still the republican pack has said ban all muslims, no refugees, all of that kind of thing. and he is still rising in the polls. >> but this is the important thing for the center ground to be as it were muscular enough in the solutions we put forward, that we don't leave the ground to those who are putting forward demagogic solutions that a, by the way would alienate the necessary allies within the muslim world and be deeply inhumane and unfair. but if we don't -- this is not a problem for americans simply, but across europe. if we don't put forward what people in our countries think is a coherent, strong deep-based response to this terrorism, then they will become more insecure, more anxious, and more prone to fall for the rhetoric of people who are exploiting this situation. my worry is today we just -- the strategy isn't -- it's not strong enough or comprehensive

enough yet. >> tony blair, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. >> and we'll have more of my interview tomorrow. blair talks about having to testify before parliament on libya, and he says the west needs reality check about russia's real role in syria. next, though, from a former world leader to a new leading lady. comedian sarah silverman tells me about the movie role that is catapulting her up the hollywood hierarchy. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like ordering wine equals pretending to know wine. pinot noir, which means peanut of the night. you can't work from home when you're sick. you need real relief. alka-seltzer plus day cold & flu has three cold symptom fighters to relieve your tough symptoms. [deep breath] alka-seltzer plus. when you've got a house

full of guests on the way and a cold with sinus pressure, you need fast relief. alka-seltzer plus severe sinus congestion and cough liquid gels rush relief to your tough symptoms. to put you back in control. [doorbell] woman: coming! alka-seltzer plus sinus. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me. with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do release its own insulin. trulicity responds when my blood sugar rises. i take it once a week, and it works 24/7. it comes in an easy-to-use pen and i may even lose a little weight. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable prescription medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it should be used along with diet and exercise. trulicity is not recommended as the first medicine

to treat diabetes and should not be used by people with severe stomach or intestinal problems, or people with type i diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. trulicity is not insulin and has not been studied with long-acting insulin. do not take trulicity if you or anyone in your family has had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2 or if you are allergic to trulicity or its ingredients. stop using trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of an allergic reaction, such as itching, rash, or difficulty breathing; if you have signs of pancreatitis such as severe stomach pain that will not go away and may move to your back, with or without vomiting; or if you have symptoms of thyroid cancer, which may include a lump or swelling in your neck, hoarseness, trouble swallowing, or shortness of breath. medicines like trulicity may cause stomach problems, which could be severe. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and any medicines you take. taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase your risk for low blood sugar. common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, and indigestion. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney failure.

with trulicity, i click to activate what's within me. if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar numbers with a non-insulin option, ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. and click to activate your within. at&t and directv are now one. which means you can watch in the house, in a treehouse, or even in miss pepperpie's house. pause in your pjs and hit play during a pb&j. nice!

and enjoy some cartoons instead of listening to dad's car tunes. (dad) ♪meet you all the way! get the best of both worlds. directv at home and 2 wireless lines. from directv and at&t. welcome back to the program. in the united states, female comedians are taking the silver screen by storm. amy schumer stars in "train wreck" and just today won a golden globe best actress nomination. and another very funny lady sarah silverman also today won a best actress nomination from the screen actors guild. but she is keeping the jokes out of her film. it's called "i smile back," and silverman plays a mother in a downward spiral of depression. >> what's more interesting for you, the daddy issues or the

drugs? >> well, i like to start with the daddy issues because it's a very organic segue into the drugs. >> um, mine is boring. my dad left when i was nine. that's the whole story. he kissed me good night, and that's the last time i saw him. so drugs? >> it's heavy stuff, and we talked about taboo, for instance, about depression. we talked about hollywood women and politics as well in this divisive presidential year. so you've now done a major motion picture, and everybody is raving about your performance. they're talking about oscars. but it's also really raw and really quite brutal about depression, amongst other things. >> yeah, i was able to use my own experience to an extent, kind of the bones of depression. i was put on 16 xanax.

four xanax four times a day when i was 14 years old. she really lives entirely in anxiety, in that state we all get in occasionally of what if, what if i never write another joke, what if i never fall in love again, what if, what if. we tell ourselves horror stories. and that's anxiety. and she exists in that space this her head. what if i ruin my kids. what if i pass my genes on to them. what if i abandon them. and there is no space for anything else. i think that so many people, they think of self-loathing and being self-deprecating as some kind of modesty. it real isn't. it's self-obsession. there is no room for anything else. >> there is manage that makes them not booze anymore. darkness cannot exist in the light. and when you put light on things, it changes what they are. >> yeah. i mean, it goes back to mr. rogers, you know. if it's mentionable, it's manageable.

and i think as soon as -- >> you know what? you've just put your finger on it. if it's mentionable, it's manageable. >> yeah. if you look at all the things that at one time were taboo and aren't anymore, the change is that it became a topic of discussion, that it became something we spoke about. i mean, if you look at the trans community, these people always existed. they just were living in personal hells where they couldn't expose themselves. and what it took was and it continues to take is that it just becomes a part of a conversation, you know. and then it's not so crazy anymore. >> there is that and obviously this ongoing gender gap in all sorts of ways. you have said, or at least you act with your comedy as though comedy would be a remedy to that. and i just want to play a skit that you did on the wage gap. >> every year the average woman

losing around $11,000 to the wage gap. over the course of the working years of her life, that's almost 500 grand. that's a $500,000 vagina tax. >> okay, vagina tax, it's funny. do you think that actually comedy can knock down these taboos? >> yeah, i think so. i think comedy has always played a big part in -- in -- not just in pop culture, but in the way we see history. more of a mirror to society and more of a reflection of an honest reflection of history than history. a lot of times. >> you obviously saw the inspired by you apparently amy schumer taking a very comedic approach to the idea of age, women ageing in hollywood. and she did that classic video, you know, last f-able day. >> in every actress' life, the

media decides when you finally reach the point where you're not believably [ bleep ]able anymore. >> how do you know? who tells you? >> nobody really overtly tells you. but there are signs. >> you know how sally field was tom hanks' love interest in punch line. and 20 minutes later she was his mom in forrest gump. >> or you might get offered a rom-com with jack nicholson where you're competing. >> or mrs. claus. >> i read for that part. >> i did too. who got that? >> j. lo. >> who tells minute its their last [ bleep ]able day? [ laughter ] >> honey, men don't have that day. >> never. >> i mean, it is hilarious. you cannot get enough of watching that. and each time it's oh, really? >> it is so great. and i don't think that's something that most people thought about, especially not -- especially outside of show business. and now it's on people's radar,

you know. it's good. >> i mean, you're 44. do you feel the wall of that age -- [ laughter ] >> hey, i'm much older. do you feel the age wall coming at you? can you believe? i couldn't believe maggie gyllenhaal at 37 was considered too old to play the love interest of somebody who is 55 years old, for heaven's sake. >> oh, yeah. i've lost parts. and for me, it's -- i don't chalk it up the only reason i lost it is because i'm my age, you know. i'm not a movie player. but i've lost parts to be like the love interest of a 50-year-old man to, you know, women in their early 20s. >> but do you worry that the age thing is going to hit you? >> no, because, um, i'm funny. and i feel that if you can complain, and it's good to point out things that are unfair.

but nothing beats just being undeniable. so i go that route. >> will you do more movies now? >> sure. what have you got for me? what have you got, christiane? >> well, listen -- >> your life story? [ laughter ] oh my goodness. sarah silverman, thank you very much. >> and when we come back, more smiles. a welcome antidote to some of the darkness this year, and the nobel goes to the quartet from tunisia. imagine having to hold a country together in peace and freedom and against all odds, next. ♪ the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself.

that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? some of these experimentse're notmay not work.il. but a few might shape the future. like turning algae into biofuel... ...new technology for capturing co2 emissions... ...and cars twice as efficient as the average car today. ideas exxonmobil scientists are working on to make energy go further... ...no matter how many tries it takes. energy lives here.

brought personal computers to the home? totally. ...and then intel made them more efficient so that you could fit all this into a laptop... tight. real tight. ...and then they helped bring wifi to everybody... whatever that is. c'mon, c'mon. ...and now intel's best processor ever is here! which helps pcs do things you never thought possible. like time travel? hey, these pants are timeless! introducing intel's new 6th generation core processor, it's our best processor ever. to save big during sleep train's you'retriple choice sale.

for a limited time, you can choose up to 48 months interest-free financing on a huge selection of tempur-pedic models, or choose to save $300 on beautyrest and posturepedic mattress sets. you can even choose $300 in free gifts with sleep train's most popular stearns & foster mattresses. the triple choice sale, ends soon at sleep train. ♪ sleep train [train horn] ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ and finally tonight, we live in a world where the good guys don't always finish first, but

tonight imagine they do. actually, they do. the tunisian national dialogue quartet accepted the nobel peace prize in oslo, norway. and the committee cited their far-reaching work to promote democracy and tolerance in the first of the arab springs. it seems an age since almost exactly five years ago. the fruit seller mohammed set himself on fire and lit the flames of hope in tunisia and throughout the arab world. as we reported, even tonight, it hasn't worked out so well for most of the arab world, but in tunisia, there still is hope as the winners told our jonathan mann. >> we showed in one voice people want dignity, people want jobs, and people want freedom. >> translator: the prize is not for us, it is for tunisia at large, for the people.

>> and that it is for our program tonight. remember, you can always now listen to our podcast. see us online at amanpour.com and follow us on facebook and twitter. thanks for watching and goodbye from london. for homecomings. i see you brought a friend? i wanna see, i wanna see. longing. serendipity. what are the... chances. and good tidings to all. hang onto your antlers. it's the event you don't want to miss. it's the season of audi sales event. get up to a $2,500 bonus for highly qualified lessees on select audi models.

in the country have in common? many of them now call cancer treatment centers of america home. expert medicine works here. find out why at cancer center.com. cancer treatment centers of america. tso i don't waste time trying, to get the grease off. i count on the craftsman brand and their mach series tools, to help me get the job done quickly. this mach series 53 piece set keeps me moving. fast drive technology; an extendible, reversible helix shaft delivers continuous rotation at 1.5 rotations per stroke... ...so i can roll through bolt after bolt. and get it today for 50% off... now only $49.99. and then, there's the mach series 3/8 t-handle driver. an aluminum free spinning collar can adjust quickly to help me drive in any screw. you got a really stubborn one? use the strong square drive to break it loose. good luck trying that with an ordinary screwdriver. and good luck finding a better deal on the t-handle drive;

get it now for 50% off at just $24.99. and craftsman hand tools are protected by a lifetime full warranty. this holiday season put craftsman tools at the top of your wish list.

hello again. you're watching "cnn newsroom." welcome to our viewers in the u.s. and around the world. i'm natalie allen. here are the top stories we're watching right now. geneva, switzerland is on high alert as police search for suspects related to the paris attacks. according to a source, u.s. communications intercept show isis extremists discussed attacking three cities -- geneva, toronto in canada and chicago in the u.s. divers from the fbi are searching for evidence in a lake near last week's massacre in san bedi