now almost more than a decade later. >> danny, i've got to cut you've there, we're running up -- i want to give smerconish all of his time. happy new year to you. i'm brianna keilar in washington. meet you back in an hour. "smerconish" starts right now. i'm michael smerconish, so it begins, 2016 a year in which we'll elect a new american president is finally here. not even the skies over the historic rose bowl were immune from the name-calling yesterday. and what would happen to someone in your workplace if they sent an office e-mail like this? that's what some prosecutors and judges have done in my home state of pennsylvania where we call it it porn game. plus, this weekend, we begin to say good-bye to "downton abbey." the show's creator lord julian fellowes will be here to offer insights how the show

will end. but first there's an issue that i want to flag regarding the new criminal prosecution of bill cosby. remember, he's now facing prosecution in a pennsylvania case only because of testimony that he offered in a civil case which he paid to settle. that speaks well, i think, of the civil system. his defense might be women who accuse him are in it for the money. but if he hadn't been sued by andrea constand, he'd be facing no criminal charges. here's the bigger issue, we know what we know about cosby today only because a federal judge decided that cosby is a hypocrite. that was the basis on which the judge released cosby's sealed testimony from ten years ago. the judge eduardo robreno wrote the defendant has an extension to the public has a significant interest. the judge decided because cosby thrust himself into the town square on matters of public

importance he'd surrendered his privacy. one example cited by the judge was a 2013 interview by cnn's don lemon. in that interview, cosby discussed the 50th with lemon the anniversary on the march on washington and today's leadership needs. he also shared his views on rehabilitating african-american juvenile delinquent. in short, cosby told people how to lead their lives. and on that basis, the judge lifted a temporary seal from ten years ago. revealed when cosby was asked by constand's lawyer whether he obtained quaaludes to use for young women with whom he wants to have sex, cosby said yes. but the civil case was settled with a confidentiality agreement. didn't stop the judge from releases the testimony to the associated press on the basis that cosby is a fraud. the judge wrote, the stark contrast between bill cosby the public moralist and bill cosby the subject of serious allegations concerning improper

and perhaps criminal conduct is a matter as to which the a.p. and, by extension, the public, has a significant interest. arguably, had cosby stuck to comedy instead of public policy his secret admission from a decade-old deposition would have remained hidden in a federal courthouse in philadelphia. so, will this civil testimony come into cosby's criminal trial? did the judge get it right? hadn't cosby negotiated to keep those documents secret? joining me now, two legal experts, ariva martin, a civil rights attorney, and a prominent sufl rights criminal defense attorney ted simon has represented amanda knox, robert durst among them. immediate past president of national association of criminal defense attorneys. ted simon, is the civil testimony coming into the criminal case? >> well, first, let me wish you a happy new year to you and your audience, a happy and healthy new year.

your question is an appropriate one. and i think the only answer is, we don't know. the ruling was by a federal judge in a civil case. the issue remains open in the state case so it will be an issue. by the way, with respect to judge robreno, who i appeared before in many civil cases, his ruling was not limited to the hypocrisy which you pointed out. that certainly was part of it. he indicated there was no final order thought he had a reduced zone of price si based upon the reason you said. he also didn't have the confidentiality agreement which none of us know. and further, the only parts that were unsealed were motions that, in part, included references to the deposition. we don't as yet have the complete deposition. even the reference you that made with respect to that he had had

acquired quaaludes with the intent of using it for young women, also within the criminal complaint, he immediately thereafter said, i misunderstood the question. i didn't mean women, but woman. and then he referenced another act that he had sex with a woman with quaaludes but there was no issue with lack of consent. so there's been much to do about the deposition. i think there's more about the hue and cry that's come out based upon the different people that have come out and made complaints. let's not forget -- >> ariva -- pardon me, ted -- every case, the pretrial determinations that are made have great significance but none like this. there are so many issues that are going to have to get resolved that, i think, will determine cosby's ultimate fate, do you agree? >> absolutely, i agree. michael. the one big issue is whether those 49, 50-plus women will be allowed to testify. we know that the prosecutor in

this case is going to claim that bill cosby had a modus operandi, or m.o., that he used those drugs to take advantage of women sexually. he's going to want to parade 10 or 20 of those women into the courtroom and have them testify about their interactions with cosby. whereas, cosby's team is going to want to limit any testimony from those women and have this case be just about constand and what happened. they're already saying this is a consensual relationship between two consenting adults. that's going to be a really big issue in this case, is there a signature, of sorts, and is this judge going to allow other women to give testimony >> ted simon, if you were in defending bill cosby in this case, you'd be drawing attention to the fact that she returned to his home after two prior attempts at unwanted sexual advance, or so she says? >> absolutely.

i think even more importantly, and something that gets lost in the negative trial publicity avalanche that happens in these high-profile cases, is that mr. cosby enjoys the presumption of innocence, that the commonwealth bears the burden, the burden of proof, and they also have the heavy burden of proving every essential element beyond a reasonable doubt. these are very critical principles which apply here and to everyone else. with regard to your specific question, let's keep in mind, this is one person making one allegation, some 12 years ago, after there was no prompt complaint. a year later, and where a prior d.a. had said there was insufficient evidence to proceed. with respect to your question, not -- it hasn't been really mentioned, that there were two prior occasions, in the criminal complaint, where the complaining witness said that cosby made advances, some of them fairly pronounced.

and yet, despite that, she went back at least five occasions, multiple times, back to his house, went to his home in new york. >> michael, can i -- >> yeah, let me say this, and, ted, it's absolutely right to point out that that's what the defense will rely on. riva, i want to put something on the screen at the risk of people's eyes glazing over. because i think it's of great importance. this comes from the affidavit of probable cause this is the prosecution speaking here's what they said with regard to pennsylvania law, because she was fluctuating in and out of consciousness, the victim was legally incapable of consenting to cosby's actions. the following language by the pennsylvania supreme court regarding consent unequivocally supports the above proposition. because the evidence supports the findings that the victim was intermittently unconscious throughout the assault and was at all times relevant in such impaired physical and mental condition as as to be unable to knowingly consent her submission sexual fondling and penetration was involuntary.

apply that articulation to this case. is consent of such great significance when everybody agrees she was drugged? >> that consent's going to be huge in this case, michael and what we do know is that cosby claims that he gave her benadryl. 1 1/2 tablets of benadryl. whereas what the prosecutor is saying is that it's a much more serious drug that left her pretty much in a paralyzed state and incapable of giving consent. so the issue of consent and whether she was able to give consent is huge in this case. i just want to get back to what the other panelist said, about her coming to the house and rejecting him on two prior occasions. let's be clear, no means no. your prior consent doesn't have anything to do with whether you rejected someone one time before, two times before or five times before. if she was incapable often giving consent, this is a sexual assault which he should be

convicted. that's a huge issue in this case. i think we muddy the waters when we start talking about what she did in the past. because if she wasn't capable of giving consent, she just wasn't capable. >> ted simon, you've tried cases in montgomery county, pennsylvania. let us speak to this venue. i've tried criminal cases, you've tried civil cases there. is it a good or bad venue for bill cosby? >> i'd be happy to answer that but i think what's really critical in response to your other panelist, what is really important is both, during, the before and after. and once one looks at the before conduct, the during conduct and the after conduct, there is substantial reasonable doubt that one can see. with respect to montgomery county, it is a suburb of philadelphia. it is widely known as an upper economic suburban area. although there is also challenged economic areas. the population has changed. it formerly was very republican and it's probably now 8% leaning democratic.

you know, there's a fair cross-section. i think it's going to be interesting to do a lot of pretrial polling. not only of the potential jurors, but of the part of the perception of the parties involved, as well as the critical issues that are involved. i mean, let's keep in mind, this one person making one allegation on one incident 12 years ago without a prompt complaint. and, you know, there's a lot of questions that will be preserved. there's a lot of areas for cross-examination. and there's a lot of room for significant pretrial motion activity. why was there a delay, as well as the trial. >> areva martin, does the credibility of all 50 women now rest on the shoulders of andrea constand? >> well, yes and no. the big question is whether any of these women will be allowed in the courtroom to give their testimony. what we do know, these women feel a sense of vindication now

that the charges have been brought because this is what they've been saying all along, is that this has been the conduct of bill cosby. and they feel like this prosecutor stepping up and charging him makes it clear like their statements about him are true. but i have some questions, michael, about this prosecutor and his promises while running for office not just to stand up for victims but he made an exact promise to go after bill cosby. that doesn't sit well with me. i like the fact that he's going to be pro the victims. but to rest his whole campaign on prosecuting one guy causes into question whether this is about fulfilling those campaigns or pursuing justice. >> it's interesting that you said is that because as kevin steele ran for office, he criticize the old d.a. bruce castor and said you should have done something. but, in the same breath, he said it's this new deposition testimony that allows us to charge crosby. well, castor never had access to that.

thank you for being here. i appreciate both of you. i want to know how everybody at home feels tweet me. i'll read some of best later in the program. coming up where hillary uses bill on the campaign trail, is his record with women now back in play? and the amazing british tv series "downton abbey" returns tomorrow night for its sixth and final season. i'll speak to its award-winning creator, julian fellowes, a conservative in the house of lords and his thoughts on the upcoming election. >> while i'm sure mr. trump has many merits and great skills and talents in the way he's managed his career, whether he's exactly how i would define a politician is perhaps something i don't know that i have anything useful to say on. ♪ (trap door opening) rootmetrics in the nation's largest independent study

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2015 was a combative year in politics.

and there was no letup, as we went rolling into 2016. even new year's day football and the rose bowl game between stanford and the iowa hawkeyes wasn't immune from the name- calling and social medial wars. we show you the sky writing attacking donald trump. well, carly fiorina, a stanford grad, as got into the act tweeting, love my alma mater but rooting for the hawkeyes to win today. that raised a ruckus in the twitter verse spawning lots of reaction causing carly curse. hawkeyes lost 45-16. lots to talk about with my political panel, bob beckel. he managed walter mondale's presidential campaign in 1984. independent political analyst michelle bernard and columnist matt lewis. beckel, what a rookie mistake, right? i've got some vision of a 20-something inside the fiorina headquarters sending out that tweet and not realizing that's what people hate about politics? >> exactly. i would have thought a month to

come up with something as bad as that. talk about taking advantage of a situation, as if anybody in iowa's going to believe she wants iowa to win. i mean, come on. it's a classic mistake. then again, she's not a very well-prepared candidate. >> matt, a lot of the holiday jockeying has been between hillary clinton and donald trump. ruth marcus wrote a column, she's no conservative. i read her on a regular basis at "the washington post". she wrote a column on whether hillary has opened the door for attacks on bill for his treatments of women. and it ended this way, i want to show you the last paragraph and have you react to it. but hillary clinton has made two moves that lead me, gulp, to agree with trump on the fair game front. she is smartly using her husband as a campaign surrogate, and simultaneously correctly calling trump sexist. these moves open a dangerous door. it should surprise no one that trump has barged right through it. you agree with?

>> yeah, i do. like, donald trump what he is doing is unchivalrous. the clintons play tough. i think what donald trump is doing here is quite brilliant actually. this isn't about winning the general. it's about winning the republican primary which he needs to do first if donald trump is going to be the nominee and have a chance to go after the clintons. what he's doing is sending a signal to the primary voters that he's not going to allow the left to define him. he's going to be on the offense. he's not going to be like mitt romney with the bogus war on women thing against hip, it was kind of passive, you know. donald trump saying we will fight back. we're going on offensive. i think it helps him in iowa, new hampshire and the republican primary state. >> i agree it helps in the primary states. i'm not sure of the propriety of it. michelle, donald trump has clearly made sexist comments and i could articulate a list if you want me to. but does that necessarily mean hillary can touch it?

>> it's fair game on both of their parts. i don't like the propriety of it. hillary clinton, i agree with ruth marcus, she had opened the door when she started using her husband as a candidate. also, people have been -- sorry, as a speaker on her behalf. other people have brought up the scandals before. donald trump's past grievances against his first wife and second wife are also fair game. but the real question is, are they going to make a difference, and really what is the path for 270 electoral votes or whoever we're going to find in the general election. i did want to say here's what i find interesting about trump's comments about hillary clinton and whether he is absolutely brilliant or this just happened to flow from him. but one of the things that we're seeing, if you look just in the world of social media and the people who like donald trump, many of them despise hillary clinton. and if hillary clinton is going

to put together the same coalition that obama had in 2008 she had to deal with millennial women, they're looking for a movement, not for a feminist. then part of the obama coalition who believes that hillary clintons a fraudulent feminist because she stayed with bill clinton in light of monica lewinsky and other problems this their marriage and for who believe that second wave feminist should have come to the rescue of monica lewinsky and didn't only because bill clinton was pro-choice and a democrat. you've got african-americans part of the 2008 obama coalition all over twitter and social media and saying how is it that, you know, bill cosby is bad, bill clinton is bad, one is a vile rapist and the other person is someone beloved by the country. >> let me get bob beckel to respond to that issue. >> first of all, of all of the classic mistakes that trump has made and gotten away, taking on the most popular politician in

america, bill clinton, i'd have bill clinton on the campaign trail every day. what is trump going to do, carry the blue dress around? i mean, look, people have forgotten this. maybe republicans haven't but they're going to vote anyway against clinton. that's not the point. if you're going to run into a general election, it's like the republicans when they tried to impeach clinton. look what happened. the country rebelled. they said clinton is a philanderer. the country said, yeah, so what, we know that. >> this is all about the primary, and that's why i think this is so key. if you look at how republicans respond viscerally right now, i don't want to call it inferiority complex. but there's a sense that the media is out to get us that political correctness has run amok. we have this thing, if you follow twitter, if a republican gets in trouble for drunken driving, we'll say, remember chappaquiddick? or if a republican gets in trouble for saying something

racially i lly insensitive, we', yeah, robert c. byrd was in the kkk. >> he's pushing buttons that they'd like to have pushed. >> i'd love to have the clinton campaign -- they don't do it -- but there's stuff on trump that is almost worse. i wish they'd push it out. because of propriety. if it were up to me, i may do it anyway. i think trump has more issues on sexist issues than you can possibly imagine. >> sounds like you know something. >> i do. >> do you care to share it here? >> no. if i share it in i anywhere, i'll share it here but not now. >> michelle, i want to show you, nate cohen writes for "the new york times." put the map up that shows where donald trump is most popular among republicans. let that sear into your mind for just a moment. i'm now going to show you the handiwork of seth steven davidowitz. he's an economists at "the times

"s who studies google searches. look at where racially charged internet searches are most common. in fact, kathryn, flip back to the other map which shows where trump is most popular. and one more time, go back to where you find the most racially charged internet searches. pretty compelling, isn't it, michelle bernard? >> absolutely. i read the piece in "the new york times" and took a look at the underlying study, and it's actually very frightening. one of the two big takeaways from the article and the study behind it are, number one, the largest percentage of donald trump's supporters at this point in time are actually self-identified republicans who are registered as democrats. and most of them live in areas of the country where we find the most racial animus. it's in the south and as you move west, donald trump loses support.

it is a very scary thing for a person of color. it should be a scary thing for women. it should be a scary thing for anyone who is other than a white male because of what donald trump is appealing to in or to win this election. >> it's a little scary for us, too. >> i'm sure. i'm sure. but you won't end up being a tamir rice or someone else that ends up shot dead because of that animus. >> matt. quickly. >> i think what trump is tapping into is understandable, with xlek concerns and it's populism, it's not inherently pernicious. i do think he's as tapping into a dark side of a forest. some bad instincts out there. and if you add it all up, that's why he's so popular. >> bob beckel. one final subject, i predicted that there would be jockeying, punching within your weight class, before the holidays and we've now seen it in so far as jeb and rubio and christie.

instead of focusing their energies on donald trump are look at one another. can that be a winning strategy for one of them to emerge as the establishment candidate? >> well, it has to be. somebody lass to emerge. there's got to be three people coming out of iowa, maybe four. they go to new hampshire. new hampshire always has a prize. i predict right now, we'll wake up the day after new hampshire and say where did that come from? they always upset iowa. there there be three more coming out of new hampshire to go to south carolina. this thing could go on with cruz, trump and, quote, an establishment candidate well into march. >> bob beckel, matt lewis, michelle bernard, we appreciate all three of you, thank you. >> thank you. tweet me @smerconish. i'll read the best later in the program. up next, tomorrow night, "downton abbey" is back for its final season. every line of dialogue in the series has flowed from the pen of one man, lord julian fellowes.

he will join me next. here's some of the delicious dialogue that he's written for the marvelous maggie smith. >> i hope his arrival means you intend to make it public. >> darling, you know how inch i value your advice. >> which means you tend to ignore it. >> i won't be hurried into anything, not by you or by him. if you weren't certain, why on earth did you go to bed with him? able to recognize a fair price. truecar has pricing data on every make and model, so all you have to do is search for the car you want, there it is. now you're an expert in less than a minute. this is truecar.

the beginning of the end. the last season of "downton abbey" season six. at least here in america, the period piece from the early 20th century featuring british acristocats, their extended family and servants has been a huge success. in the age of binging, what's the best way to watch? i put that question to the creator lord julian fellowes. please give me advice how to enjoy the final season of "downton" do i savor them one time or binge-watch? >> i'm the ultimate binge-watcher. >> are you? >> yeah. i've lost my taste for allowing them to dictate when i will see anything. i try to avoid the spoilers. i get to the end of the series, buy the box and go mad. >> given the attachment that so

many of us feel to "downton," did you feel some sense of obligation to end on a high note, keeping in mind that none of us here in the states knows how it all ends? >> truthfully, we were planning to end on the fifth series. and then when we started to get nearer to that, it just felt as if we had too much to do. we needed really a whole series that was about resolution. so we decided to do six. so it's not as if we're cutting ourselves off short, we actually thought we would end the year earlier. because, you know, it's good to leave the party when the people are still sorry that you go. and not wait until everyone's incredibly relieved. and we just felt we sort of completed the journey really. and it wasn't a bit sad because it's been an extraordinary adventure in my career. very unlikely to be topped. you know, i consider myself lucky to have one of the sort of world sensations, you know. but nonetheless, everything must come to an end.

>> the final season has, of course, already aired in the uk. i think it's kept relatively well under wraps here in the states. i'm sure if i were to go online, i could watch, i could learn everything. are you surprised in a world of 24/7 cnn news bubble that the final stories have not migrated? >> i think not everyone wants to spoil it for the fans. on other side of the atlantic. personally, i wish it went out on the same day. i don't really understand why it doesn't. the bbc with i think it was "dr. who," they showed it both days on both sides. that seems to me to be the obvious answer. i don't know why we don't do that. >> i know why we're so interested in what goes on in the uk. why this so popular in england? >> nobody knows why it was so successful before it was made.

it was assumed that the audience was dead. everyone told peter finch that he was mad to be making it. well, he's had the last laugh. you know, nobody knows why people watch something. it's a combination somewhere in there tucked in there that appeals to people. you know, when i was a child, my mother used to allow us to fool around in the kitchen with flour and milk and make little gray things that we were then forced to eat. one day i made perfect eclairs and they were absolutely brilliant. she said, what did you do? what did you do? of course, i couldn't remember what i'd done. i didn't know how i made them. i don't know how i made this. >> am i correct that every line of dialogue flowed from your mind from your pen? >> every line. >> how rare is that? what happened to the concept of the writer's room? >> i don't think the writer's room is as established in britain as here.

i don't want to talk as if i don't admire the writer's room. i thought "mad men" with writer's room was straerd because he kept his very distinct style going on all the way through the series. it never wavered. it never weakened. and that seems to be quite an achievement, as writing every line yourself. i mean, in my case, i don't know, we thought about it, but it just seemed a difficult rhythm for people to pick up. that's just me being vain. i'm sure there are 500 people who pass this hotel that they could have written but in the event they didn't. >> which of the characters have you most enjoyed writing dialogue? >> answer that most people expect me to give is maggie. she is very rewarding to write for. i've now done three or four things for her. for her, you see how i sink into it, with her. she's lovely to write.

she's very, very funny. she's very witty. you never have to explain why a line is funny. and she does have this marvelous gift to be the same person to take you through tragedy, through drama, into comedy, she never waivers. she's absolutely solid. she could have a really funny line and then suddenly give us that scene when after sybil had died. really breathtakingly moving. and then making a funny crack a few minutes later. but actually, in their different ways they're all good to write for. it's the first time i've written a series. and a series means the performance you're writing for has already happening with a musical or miniseries, four parts. you write it, it's finished, they cast it, they play it. with an ongoing series, as you write, you can hear the voices of the actors you're writing for. that's a completely different

experience and one i must say i've enjoyed very much, it's been one of the big pluses because "downton" is the first series i ever wrote. >> you're now on broadway, you wrote the book for "school of rock." is there a chance that "downton" ends up on broadway? >> as you were phrasing that i thought there was a question that was going to come at the end of it. i don't know. people talk of a film and they talk of a stage play, a musical i've heard muted. some of the newspapers in england is quite determined it's going to be one of these. but nothing's fixed yet. i'm sort of up for it. i don't -- i don't dig in, absolutely not. i think it would be quite good fun. i mean, a play would almost certainly mean a different cast. and that would be something for the public to sort of get past and embrace. but i don't know, you know, who knows. i do love broadway openings, there's nothing like them, of course. >> switching gears.

you remember from the house of lords across the pond, the presidential race? >> blimey. that's one to ask me. >> um a t. torey. >> you're a conservative? >> i'm a conservative, with public knowledge. so in that sense, i might be presumed to say that the republicans. but i have to say that for me, i think hillary clinton seems a more convincing world politician. >> why? >> i think she has a grasp of the political language. what's happening in the world. whereas some of the others see it -- without using any names -- seem rather insular in their approach. you know, when she first was in the white house as mrs. bill, i think she seemed less

broadminded, to have less of a grasp than she has now. but now, after she's been secretary of state, she seems to me a stateswoman. and i also feel, in as much as i'm allowed to have an opinion about america's government, you know, to see a woman president, it's about time. >> donald trump also regards himself as a conservative. i'm sure he would say he was a tory, if he were in the uk. is he your type of conservative? >> well, i'm sure mr. trump has many merits and great skills and talents in the way he's managed his career. whether he is exactly how i would define a politician is perhaps something i don't know that i have anything useful to say on. >> thank you very much. thank you for all of the entertainment that you've provided to so many of us. >> oh, thanks. that's very nice of you. thank you. an interesting chap, right? hey, i want to thank the foundation for breast and prostate health, their president shelli schwartz for allowing me to interview lord fellowes during their fund-raiser.

up next, i've got to tell you about the e-mail scandal in my home state that's called porngate with judges and prosecutors with content like this. i'll explain when i come back. announcer: it's time to make room

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♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ take a look at this image. as you can see it shows a white guy wrestling a bucket of fried chicken from two african-americans that says "bravery at its finest." imagine, you're an african-american criminal defendant with a court date who is facing a prosecutor who sent that image to colleagues. here's another one, meant to motivate, boobs, what more motivation do you need? not exactly confidence inspiring for, say a litigant in a sexual harassment case. welcome to pennsylvania porngate playing out in my home state. it's cost one supreme court justice his job. another suspended.

at least 6 employees have been fired and another 60 reprimanded. how did we get here? the answer is jerry sandusky. it's complicated, but i think i can explain. sandusky, you'll remember, the former penn state coach now serving 30 to 60-year sexual abuse of ten boys. the sandusky investigation took 35 months. tom corbett was the attorney general in pennsylvania on whose watch the case was initiated and he was then running for governor. did corbett drag his feet? so has not to alienate penn state alumni while running. enter kathleen kane. when kane ran for attorney general in 2012, she'd promised to investigate the sluggish pace of the sandusky investigation. she won the election and promptly hired a special prosecutor. while havingers h. gefry moulton

jr. criticizes the pace of the investigation, he found no direct evidence due to electoral politics. but that investigation did uncover something else. widespread circulation of pornographic e-mails at the highest level of pennsylvania government. one of the offenders, frank fina, he ran the sandusky investigation. he sent the fried chicken cartoon to colleagues. fina didn't like kane's criticism of the sandusky case and was incensed when kane wouldn't pursue criminal charges against civil philadelphia democrats, all african-american who were caught accepting money and gifts from a lonnyists. details of kane's refusal were leaked to the media. kane retaliated. she now finds herself facing felony perjury charges for allegedly leaking confidential grand jury information in another case to embarrass fina. these days fina and two other high level prosecutors are working for the ffl district

attorney, seth williams, he'll join me in a moment. kane is fighting for her job but also her license to practice law. one more thing, kane has a twin sister. herself, a state prosecutor, who apparently sent some off-color images of her own. nobody knows pennsylvania politics better than dr. terry madonna. he's the director of the center of politics and public affairs at franklin and marshall college. terry, how did i do? >> very good. that's an excellent summary. >> it's complicated. >> to say the least. after these e-mails we learn about the e-mails after the moultan report. the real problem exists about what attorney general kane did with them. she refused to make a large number of them public, selectively releasing them. and it looked like through the process of releasing them that

she was going after frank fina, the aforementioned frank fina. folks connected to the attorney general's office when tom corbett was attorney general. selective release. we found out last january that the supreme court of the state said those e-mails were not covered by a grand jury protection order and could be released. newspapers in the state have repeatly filed right to know requests to get them. but the attorney general has refused, until recently. to set-out a process that makes sure those e-mails were released in a timely fashion, accurately released. not holding some back selectively, to benefit the friends and to damage enemies. >> terry, let me ask you a big picture question, because this gets a lot of ink at home. "the philadelphia inquirer" has been all over it. i think with excellent reporting.

i don't know it struck a chord with populist. you know i answer phones for talk radio. i don't get that people are incensed but is this sort of thing common in a lot of workplaces, and is that a reason that perhaps the public is a bit forgiving? >> that's a great point. i think you're right about that. the other thing, despite, as you pointed out earlier, it's so complicated, i've been doing this for a long time, like you have, i don't remember a story line with so many subplots. this could be a miniseries on tv. this is going to be a miniseries on tv. we could spend hours talking about the nuances back and forth with kane and her opponents. and it's not likely to end anytime soon. i think, number one, you got the complexity of it. number two, you've got almost daily stories by some excellent newspapers in this state getting into great detail.

and then i think you are right. there's a lot of jokes and e-mails circulated back and forth in the workplace. but you hit on an important point, this involves judges and prosecutors that, obviously, need to be held to a higher standard. and then there's the question of what that means when defendants have cases before the courts in this state. overall, i think the courts in pennsylvania do a good job. the vast majority of the prosecutors are first rate. this is the first kind of scandal like this that we've had. we've had one prior attorney general sent to prison in modern history. but that involved a campaign problem. not something directly to do with his job as attorney general. >> dr. terry madonna, thank you for being here. i mentioned previously the district of attorney is seth williams. seth, thank you so much for joining me. there are a lot of us at home

who are wondering, why are you taking a political hit by having some of the individuals who sent these e-mails on your payroll? when, in fact, they didn't do it on your watch, they did it before you hired them. why haven't you cut them loose? >> well, you make a very good point. but, again, the indicted, suspended attorney general, you've heard months of hyperbole from her about these e-mails. and this comes at the convergence of sex, racism. you would think she was a champion against those. but as you've stated, and clearly put out here, this was just a reaction, a political he just a reaction, a political vendetta of hers against frank fena for his prosecution of jerry sandusky. and then for her failure to prosecute six elected philadelphians for being on tape for taking bribes. when she didn't take the cases and she came out, all she had to

say was in her professional discretion she chose not to prosecute the cases. instead, she said the prosecutors were racist. for two years i had to bite my tongue because i knew otherwise. a state rep entered a no contest plea. she entered a motion based on race. we were able to show and her attorney withdrew and apologized because there was no racism involved in the prosecution. because of that i had to bite my tongue. the documents all showed the attorney general knew there was no racism. and for months, just for her own political vendetta -- >> but, seth, if she released these e-mails because of a vendetta, let's just accept for the purpose of this discussion that was her motivation. the facts are that the guys that you've hired sent these things. it is not like she created them out of hole cloth. they voted 13-2 to say to you

can these guys, and i would argue to your political peril, you have kept them on your payroll. how come? >> i believe in due process. as an african-american i want due process for everyone. not just for young african-american boys selling weed on a corner but white prosecutors. i had a systematic method of investigating what happened. again, the e-mails are ignorant and terrible people would do this. they weren't employees of mine. two were just recipients. so we see now for political vendetta and venue advance, the a.g. released these. the citizens deserve to know was there ex parte discussion between judges and prosecutors. we can't have them released solely to attack free people. we need to see is all one million e-mails, those between the attorney general and her sister, that include the same topics. it is unfortunately. i think all pennsylvanianss need

to know, not just a select few. >> final question, do you worry about the integrity of some of your prosecutions? i showed that fried chicken cartoon. if there's an african-american defendant being prosecuted by your office, including the individual who sent that out, doesn't he have a beef to show me. if two white guys are wrestling a black guy for a bucket of chicken. >> you're right. it isn't funny. people believe the root of it is racism. to have the a.g. pour gasoline is on fire. i have taken those three. i have put them where they are active in criminal cases. so i have to be consistent.

i have to consider what will happen if i terminate people. will they sue the city of philadelphia? systemically, we're addressing those concerns. i've listened to concerned members of the community, city council, and taken them away from actively prosecuting criminal cases. >> bottom line, doesn't appear that you intend to fire them? >> well, you know, i continue to evaluate it. it's an ongoing process. life is dynamic, not static. i have changed some of the process and i have evaluated it. i want to move forward and make sure philadelphians are safe. people don't stop me and ask me about this. they talk about gun violence.

>> thank you. appreciate hearing your perspective, seth williams. >> thank you for having me, mike. >> a lot of tweets have come in this hour. i will get to a couple in just a moment. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. look for savings on boost® in your sunday paper.

i like to say you can follow me on twitter if you can spell smerconish. bill cosby say target of the liberal left and establishment black community. what a shame that everything in

this country is viewed according to the ideological divide. that is a ridiculous observation. secondly, inform lord julian fellows that we the people don't want a politician. and choosing between lunch with trump or fellows. sir julian wins hands down. frankly, i'd rather be a fly on the wall and watch them have lunch toying. thanks for watching. i'll see you next week.

you're in the cnn newsroom. i'm in for poppy harlow. breaking news from the middle east tonight. the execution of a prominent shiite cleric by saudi arabia triggered numerous protests throughout the region. in iran, a predominantly shiite nation, they are reacting angry to the execution. take a look. this is tehran where these loud and angry demonsrations broke out tonight at the saudi embassy. someone actually throwing