collection by collaborating with putin. it will be interesting to see what story the deal would choose to tell together. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. >> hey, good morning. i'm brian and it's time for reliable sources. our weekly look at the story behind the story. how news and pop culture get made. today we start with the question. do primaries change with everything? donald trump and hillary clinton still appear to be front runners for the respected party's nominations and that's what trump told cnn this morning. >> i think it's going to be between hillary. they say it will be the largest voter turnout. i want to tell you that's a great compliment to the country. we have a low voter turnout. i think it will be the greatest

voter turnout in history. >> greatest in history. this election is historic for sure. it seems some trump skeptics are working through the five stages of grief with some now approaching. meanwhile, some trump believers including the proponents in the press are saying i told you say. so this hour we're going to look at this plus over hyped, over dramatized polls. murdock telling trump to calm down. let me start with you. let's do a quick round robin. what was your take away from last night? >> apart from the fact that admirally the press did not try

to tease out who came in second or third in south carolina based on about 45 people, i think there's been a sudden shift from the argument that we're about to see a long possibly even contested convention maybe in both parties to the idea that after three primaries and caucuses, we know who the nominees are. why i understand that, i do think if i can quote murdock to trump, once again this is the case of a press in the backseat of their car leaving the parent's home saying are we there yet? we have a slate of primaries. by then, we may well know. i would still argue based on three small states, we don't know yet and it would be a really good thing for the press, all of us not to assume we know what's going to happen based on this. >> to that point, frank, is there a structural bias maybe

trying to encourage a longer campaign? >> everybody in the media loves a good story. >> i would say my headline from last night, it's real now. it is the headlines on the trump side. the coverage changes and the focus changes, a lot of longer campaign, more battle. i don't know. i don't think we can predict but i think there is a degree of momentum that's not inevident blt now that's going to have to be recognized and dealt with. >> what about you? running one of the biggest news sites out there. what was your headline from last night? >> this is now donald trump's republican party. you saw the fall of jeb bush, the man who had the money and the family name collapse and under the weight, essentially, of a billionaire businessman and a reality tv host. there's been a stake out.

at some point the bubble is going to burst. he's going to go away. the fact of the matter is donald trump is in the establishment name and will likely pick up another primary bwin and there' no ignoring him any longer. >> late last night david was talking about how coverage of trump might change now. here's what he said. >> i think the media is now going to start because they take it so much more seriously after south carolina and they're going to try to bet what exactly has his business career been like? >> i have to wonder, jeff, though, that's just dreaming. afterall, trump has been covered for decades. is there really going to be a change in the coverage. can the press be any tougher? >> that's exactly the right question. i think the questions about donald trump, the four bankruptcies, the sometimes casual relationship between what he asserts in fact has been out

there for several months since it became clear he was not a joke and it hasn't mattered. one of the things we're going to test is yeah, press is going to vet tougher. we've seen cases where somebody emerges in the press and asks tough questions, i'm thinking agary heart back in 1984. it seems that the laws of political gravity have been suspended if not repealed. trump supports, not that they haven't heard about this. they haven't believed anything said about trump in the media is not true or they don't care. they're a 10, 12, 15 things trump has done in the last months that validates any other candidate. that to me may be the most interesting question. the press does what it's suppose to do. question is will it matter? >> i think that's really the key because i do think the press is going to change. i think the coverage has to change. he is now not only the man with

momentum but the man that's going to take the nomination. that always changes the dynamics. let me take an example today. he was doing an interview earlier today and it was recorded last night. it was aired on the state of the union and he quoted this line he's been using about his crowds about i'm not going to let people die in the streets. the question is he wants to repeal obamacare. what are you going to replace it with? how are you going to pull the coalitions together? the focus is going to change because we're actually seeing this thing get real. what are your real answers? as the public cares is different. but the dynamic must change within the media. >> what stories will you be assigning to the point? >> the fact of the matter is there's little meat on the bones when it comes to donald trump. he has a lot of great lines. his supporters heat it up. there's not a lot of substance there. other than building a big

aprntly beautiful wall that mexico is going to pay for we don't know what he's going to do on immigration. every time that someone takes the front runner status they should expect to get more scrutiny. it's our job to be more critical of them. i think what we're going to find there's not a whole lot of substance there. it's our duty to get away and chip away and make donald trump answer these questions. you can talk your way into the white house. once you're in the situation room i'm not saying building a big wall is going to pay out that way. >> here we are talking about the g.o.p. and not about hillary clinton wins in nef nevavada la night. we're seeing a vote out on the democratic side. as we point out on twitter we don't know how many voted at the vatican on caucuses. >> the first thing, anyone that uses a caucus where they don't tell you about the raw votes is basically cheating the public.

it's in iowa and nevada. to your point, i think the headline out of the democratic caucuses may be free fold. one, clinton's strength with the african american community, she won 3-1. second, there was a faint, a misleading entrance poll that showed bernie sanders winning. there may be something there. the most important part is turnout was down over a third in nevada over what it was in 2008 and bernie sanders entire argument is it's kind of the mirror ima mirr mirror error image of ted cruz's i'll bring out people who usually don't vote. one of the things we have to look at is bernie sanders message going to result in a huge increased turnout of low, usually low participation voters because if not, then what we have seen in nevada is the start

of the end of the democratic nomination process. if he can't do that, i usually don't say things like this. i think if he can't do that, that nomination race is basically done. >> you were talking about the entrance polls and i wanted to bring up polls as well, these are the primary polls connected before the voting happened but i wanted to put on screen from the south carolina polls, this is a cnn poll of polls actually that combines the different polls in the field. these are the most reliable ones out there. it had cruz at 21% and rubio at 15%. let's put the results on the screen and we know how close it was. barely a hair's breath between them. trump more than 10 points ahead. frank, i know it's easy to sit here and say we should rely less than polls. what do you suggest? what is the alternative to this obsession with the polling data

that turns out to be not on the mark? >> as you point out this one was not. first thing that needs to happen is people saying they're not talking about polls. it's important to make polls a tool not a crutch. that's the first thing. second thing is it's time for the media and in particular cable television media to say okay. we can do the horse race over here and that's fun and that's a good reality show and what people care about. there was a poll in south carolina a few days before the voting. it had trump winning by only five points. these created narratives. it's so hard to breakout of a narrative and talk about what's

happening or wait until actual results are in. that's what people at home are wanting for. >> we've taken an approach of not overly relying on the polls. polls can be an interesting fool to inform your decisions but that's why the folks, what they're doing on the ground is important. >> kevin is here. quick line from kevin on saturday night live ten years ago. in a resent poll 55% of americans say if the elections were held today they would be really surprised. keep that in mind.

>> thank you. >> plenty more ahead on what last night means for the parties and the press. coming up, we have former meet the press host david gregory. up next, the secret of trump's media success. later in the hour, dualing town halls this week and joe scarborough taking cnn and other media writers to task. one of his targets is standing by. stay tuned. pet moments are beautiful, unless you have allergies.

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bear with me. this is going to take a minute. since last sunday, donald trump has changed the pope calling one of the comments disgraceful and he wants to question president obama's faith as well. he doubled down the suggestion that former president bush lied about iraq and called iraq the harbor of terrorism. he asserted jeb bush switched from glasses to contacted because he wanted to look cool. he called for a boycott against apple. he said he would be a neutral guy. he criticized paul ryan's plans for entitlement cuts and renewed his ever ending battle with fox news. all of this back and forth. >> i'm a very good christian because the pope said something to the effect that maybe donald trump isn't christian, okay.

a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. i like fighting with the pope actually. i don't think this is a fight. i think he said something much softer than originally reported by the media. jeb bush said donald trump is a gifted, gifted politician. my wife said i thought he's your enemy why is he saying that? i said because he's stupid. i don't know. i'm kidding, jeb. i didn't say this that. you're a nice guy. >> the message of his campaign isn't what he says, it's how much he says and how strongly he says it. with trump winning the second pray mary this weekend, let me bring in stone. he's advised the presidential campaigns of richard nixon. roger, i wanted to know how it felt for you to see trump win in south carolina last night given you have advised him over the years and rooting for him to run

for president well before you thought anyone else would. >> i am so proud of donald trump today and i think he's on his way to the nomination and the white house. it's just, it was huge. just huge. >> do you, when you see a win like that, do you say to yourself that this strategy is working of fighting and showing strength at all cost? when i read that list of all the different stories, it's almost too much for the press to keep up with. >> actually i don't think that's true. a leadist like to make fun of trump because he was a reality tv star. trump understands that politics is about being entertaining. the worst thing you can do in politics other than being wrong is to be boring. trump is never boring and if you look at that list of things you went through, every one of them tracks back to one of trump's four major themes. so first of all, trump didn't

criticize the pope, the pope criticized trump and it had to do with the correlation of immigration. his criticism of obama for not attending justice scalia's funeral saying maybe the president would have gone if it was a mosque tracks back to trump's criticism of radical islam. his criticism of jeb tracks back to the failed foreign policy, immigration policy, trade policy of 30 years of trump republicanism. trump is, everything he says tracks back to one of these major themes. >> some people hear madness. you're saying method to the madness. >> well, there's no madness at all. trump understands the free media like no one else. >> it's not accidental. let me ask you about one of these examples. i was troubled by this. it's an example, a missed statement on the campaign trail.

this is donald trump telling an urban legend about a famous general from the past. let's play the clip and talk about it. >> you know, i read a story. it's a terrible story. should i tell you or not? he took the 50 terrorist and he took 50 men and he dipped 50 bullets in pig's blood. you heard that, right. he took 50 bullets and he dipped them in pig's blood and he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the 50 people and they shot 49 of those people and the 50th person he said you go back to your people and you tell them what happened. for 25 years there wasn't a problem. >> this is a myth. it's an urban legend that's made their rounds.

i have to ask you, roger, shouldn't donald trump have someone working with him, someone by his side who cautions him against repeating urban legends on the campaign trail? >> whether it's accurate or whether it's -- is beyond the point. the point he's making is trump is more realistic about the dangers of radical islam than our current president. within the context of the republican party, that was a major plus. everything that has happened to trump over the last week, he has benefitted from. >> to say that it is. >> by the way, is this any less agr agr agr agreeing than the president saying if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. >> there's not a lot of nuance involving a myth that never happened. i guess i just wonder if it was

going to hurt mr. trump down the line to be spinning these stories. he's not making a speech or making comments based ond polling or focus groups or words put in his mouth. he speaks from the heart. that's what voters are identifying with. that's exactly why he is doing so well. there's something phony about donald trump. he's the real deal. >> i think i agree with you why his message resinates. he glues to the speech because he's unscripted and believable. i just have to wonder if we're better off or if it's not entertainment. i know that's not for either of us to judge. is it ever they feel

uncomfortable? >> brian, it's not possible. since the invention of television, it changed the game. neither one of us would have work. >> you're saying it's the tv box's fault. >> what i'm saying is that the mask coverage of our politics and the fact that voters find cold policy boring means that you have to make your positions understanding and interesting to the voters. this wasn't true until if invention but it's just a reality of how we communicate today. >> i appreciate your incites. thank you for being here. >> glad to be here. >> only five republican candidates remain in the race for the republican nomination and all five will be on one stage debating this thursday night. wolf blitzer moderates the debate in houston, texas here on cnn. it's been a while. it's been a full week. come up, david gregory has spent

years coff years covering the campaigns, white house and moderating the nbc press. his take on the results. right after this quick break. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, go to choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. book now at choicehotels.com

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don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. welcome back. so much converage of the weekend's winners. le . let's talk about the loser. biggest loser last night. he's waking up to headlines like these. the end of the bush dynasty. from the garden here, ding dong the dynasty is dead. rewriters and hosts like to get ahead of our times. imagining when a clinton bush general election would look like. david gregory covers the george w. bush administration for nbc. he has moderated meet the press

and wrote a book about faith. david joins me now from washington. i want today start with jeb bush. there was so much expectations and predictions that he would be the candidates to be in this race. we collected the media say two years ago when talking about jeb bush running. >> well, i think a couple of things. bush proved not to be a good candidate and not someone who was able to read the moment and adjust. not someone who was able to take on donald trump very effectively. it took time for him to build up to taking on. then frankly to little effect. you think about the race and how it was shaping up and the first part of 2015. this was suppose to be a clinton bush contest.

there w . >> people have strong memories of the disappointing parts of his administration and that do you think that settled jeb all along? >> i think that's a part of the ferment in the republican party that goes back a long time. i think this is a real kind of reordering going on in the party after the years of george w. bush. i think people don't remember as much that it was under president bush that the tarp happened and the bail out at the banks happened. a sense of betrayal they felt about the voters. 53% of republicans feel betrayed by the republican party. you have republicans angry at republicans for not doing more and not delivering and not standing up to barack obama. the iraq war is part of that.

a lot of angst and anxiety and bush policies in iraq. >> one more point about jeb bush before we move on. they spent $80 million in tv adds for what appears to be very little at the end of the day. is there going to be more discussion about the advertising? of course, local tv stations depend on the campaign adds. with trump winning and doing well without buying adds at all, you wonder if the conversations will be more intense? >> i think they'll be more intense. you can't, advertising alone, can't make up for this kind of phenomena we're seeing. i keep saying so many of us looking at the race and covering politics for a long time are working off an antiquated

textbook. donald trump is doing that. if you look at just this week, he takes on the pope and defends the health care mandate and takes on george w. bush in the state where his own candidacy was rescued in 2000 and calls him a liar. i think the fact jeb went after marco rubio as much as he did didn't help his cause. i think there was something larger. jeb bush was the ultimate establishment candidate. i think it's kind of where it starts and ends for him. >> hillary clinton described as the establishment candidate was able to eke out a win in nevada. do you at some point scratch your head and wonder about the games played here? i saw a spin saying she lost to state even though she won because it was a close race.

how should we think about the narrativ narratives? >> i think we should be careful i've always said it was smart. let's just be patient about these narratives. we can look at different models but we have to look at these things real time. for hillary clinton, yesterday, a win was big. she's starting to expose sanders as a narrative candidate. if he does well on super tuesday, maybe we'll rethink that. that's where we appear to be at least today. >> i wonder if her campaign benefits from it being eclipsed by the republican side and this civil war going on on the

republican side. maybe that's a benefit for her to be with not as much air time talking about the democrats right now as the republicans. >> i think she benefits somewhat. she's not provj to be the most effective campaigner. there's going to be different arguments. whose going to be the next president and control the direction of the court? also, if donald trump is the republican nominee, there's a lot of moderates and independents as well as democrats that are going to be highly energized in this country. donald trump says the turnout will be higher than ever in history. he can't say that. he doesn't know if the republicans are going to show up to vote. i do agree with you. i think there's some benefit to her being overshadowed by the

republicans. >> thanks for being here. >> the rise of the outsider candidate. talking about donald trump as an example of that. what has the press gotten right and wrong? who better to discuss that than amy? my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media? you know it! now i'm seeing dollar signs. you should probably get your eyes checked. good one babe. optometry humor. right now get up to $650 in credits to help you switch to at&t. ...feel like a raging storm. i've tried laxatives... ... but my symptoms keep returning. my constipation... ...feels like a heavy weight... ...that keeps coming back. linzess can help.

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outsider is constantly used to describe donald trump and also in a different way bernie sanders. neither man is a typical presidential candidate and found their own way of tapping into voter frustration and voter anger. you have to wonder if that's enough and whether these outsiders can win the party's nominations. the results last night have different answers to the question. let's talk about this with the woman that's seen as the face of public media. amy and the host that just

celebrated their 20th anniversary 20 years covering the movements changing america. amy, do you think of yourself as an outsider in the media? >> it's so driven by corporate interest and so important that people recognize there's a whole independent media world out there. democracy now we started on eight, nine community radio stations and now on 1,400 public radio, television, public access, community college stations. >> do you cover a campaign like donald trump's differently because you commercia commercial pressures? >> first of all, we do not emphasize the pulls. what is the value of these pulls? i know you were just talking about this. but if i'm making a decision about a candidate, i want to weigh their record. do i care what you think or my neighbor thinks or the person next to me? i want to make an independent decision?

this obsession with polls and the amount of money that goes into polls and the amount of time it goes wrong and determine the way people go. instead, pour that energy, investigation and money into people's records. whether they're businessmen like trump or politicians like hillary clinton or bernie sanders, look at their records, what they have done and compare their rhetoric. >> they believe donald trump's message is a valuable one. >> you find it out with an election and primary and caucus. what you just said, the word is important instead of lashing old day people. just count the times that every network flashes the polls. they have it for their records and continually talk about donald trump. you cannot avoid what he has

said. now, he is not a politician but he has a long corporate business record that must be investigated. you have the calling women fat pigs, slobs, disgusting. this is very important. calling mexicans rapist and murders and in the last few days the chant. build that wall. build that wall. the shutter this must send through not just people outside the country, the idea of fort identifying. but people inside the country. parents and the skills of children here that muslims will be barred from america. let's hear more muslims in the media. it's not just about talking how someone must feel. it's about going to the grass roots and looking at the targets. the other day we had a meeting

with bob shafer. donald trump wastes what you want to tell your boss. it's not what you want to tell your boss what angry people want to say. he uses the bully pulpit to bully the most defenseless and powerless people in our society. i think all religions, even if you're an atheist that there's something terribly wrong with going after the most powerless. that's easy. it's wrong. >> you're talking about donald trump. let me flip it over to bernie sanders and ask if you think it's fair we use these two candidates and talk about them in the same sentences and describe anger that exists from the basis of both candidates? >> well, there's clearly, we are at a critical tipping point in the way people feel the disappearing middle class, the fact that people feel so threatened. now, you can target different

causes. donald trump chooses to say it's the people that have the least that are hurting you. >> you say they have the most. >> yes. >> look at the success 62 people in the world, two-thirds of them american, have more wealth than three and a half billion people in the world. >> is it striking to you sanders has made this a main stream media issue that's talked about quiet a lot now? >> it's very, very important. it's no question that he has easily impacted hillary clinton's cooampaign and touchea nerve in america that if nothing else so many are revved up and young people are getting involved and can make a difference. >> it's also changed the tone of her campaign in some ways. let me ask you about what happened last night. this is a story in nevada. it hasn't been confirmed. it's about an icon in the

movement. you know her well. she's a hillary clinton supporter. it's been alleged she offered to transit late for people caucusing and the bernie supporters to english only. we fought too hard and too long in that way. the bernie campaign is saying this campaign is about bringing people together, not dividing them. they are side stepping the issue and emphasizing unity and diversity in their response. is this significant at all? >> i have tremendous respect for the founder of the farm worker's movement. she said she went up on stage to help transit late and people shouted english only. then susan and gabby, two others who were there said this actually wasn't the case, that it was the moderator because they couldn't find someone who was impartial, not just one of the candidates representatives

or others. it was a moderator neutral saying english only. i have respect for all these women. i don't know what happened. what it counts is what the candidates, the message they send out and if something like this happens, do they encourage it or do they say this is wrong? that's when we think of someone like donald trump. an african american and one of the protesters, i don't think he's then responsible but then he says on fox in the days that followed he should have been roughed up. that's terrifying when you hear him say that people should be beat up at this rally. >> terrifying. >> i disagree with him. >> people said on cnn last night people are getting use to absurdity. months and months of trump coverage is making people start to think what's normal from him. in fact, it's actually abnormal. trump has been much more -- but

certainly. >> well, i just want to say in talking about how the media covers these different candidates, it's astounding that bernie sanders is where he is today. look at the report found in 2015, the months leading up to december, 244 total network hours covering trump. that's four hours and how much got coverage? sanders got 10 minutes on abc world news tonight. sanders got 20 seconds. trump got like 81 minutes. >> it was minute. >> you have to think. going out on the road he's piped into everyone's home. >> for the first time it was sanders on top. he had his most covered weekend yet. great to see you. hillary clinton, bernie sanders will be facing off one final time before south carolina votes on the democratic side.

it's cnn democratic side tuesday night at 8:00 p.m. in columbia, south carolina. next on reliable sources we're talking about these dualing town halls on cable news just the other day. we'll get on to that with eric whose standing by in washington in a moment. pet moments are beautiful, unless you have allergies. then your eyes may see it differently. only flonase is approved to relieve both itchy, watery eyes and congestion. no other nasal allergy spray can say that. when we breathe in allergens our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. complete allergy relief or incomplete. let your eyes decide. flonase. 6>1 changes everything.

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the campaign trail wars have nothing on the cable news wars. dolling town halls, cnn airing a town hall with three candidates while msnbc set up a town hall with donald trump. now skar bo e row was criticized for some of the questions. this is from the "washington post." msnbc let trump skate on bigotry and racism. "the washington post" join mess now. you want you to respond.

he's been the subject of media coverage describing a cozy relationship with donald trump. he's been dismissing those criticisms. let's look at what he said about you on his show. >> "washington post" actually after our town hall meeting the other night when i eperred him with so many questions that i was attacked for interrupting too much actually said how dare they hold a town hall meeting where they don't ask him tough questions. e we asked tougher questions than our ket. tors ask who have the media writers and people have the audacity to ask if we're too close to donald trump. the answer is, no, we're not. >> he says he's been tough. you said he let him skate. >> i think that there is one of these it great situations where both sides can claim, look at this question, look at at that question. my point here is sort of a larger one. that is if you allow donald trump -- if youen gauge him only

on social security, iraq, the issues and how he's going to unite the republican party, you're giving him a a pass. you're allowing him into the to. lite company of a presidential election. where i think there's a a bigger issue here and that is that he compiled this record of offenses and outrages of racist and sexist is and bigoted nature. if you have an hour to spend with him and you don't talk about any of that, a lot of it came in 2015 that some media people have moved on. . but i think donald trump has e never apologized for his outrages or made amends or explained any of it. i don't think it's the media's role to sort of let that go by the wayside. it's the media's role to keep bringing that up. they have this footer they attach to every story where they resite his various outrages and link to supporting documentation. you can disagree --

>> a lot of of people think that's just grand standing. let me ask about another issue. he criticized me and my colleague suggest iing that cnn really can't cover its competitors and should be disqualified. cnn said his comments were peculiar and disturbing. where do you stand on this issue? >> i think that's nonsense. i think mood ya criticism and media reporting in this country matured to a point where people who consume it understand that there are built in conflicts. we all report on each other. i report on other outlets all the time. . i'm critical of them. the test is in the substance of the report. i think that with respect to cnn's reporting by and large especially the part about hanging out with trump, i think it's been fine. >> unfortunately i'm up against a hard block, but i wanted to

share joe's point of view. i'm trying to be fair to him. i think you are too. thank you for being here this morning. we're back in a moment. . thethrough your nose. suddenly, you're a mouthbreather. well, just put on a breathe right strip which instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone. shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right

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voila. remotes, come out from the cushions, you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. what a night. the election is amping up and the voters are having their say in all the big winners are here. hillary clinton wins a close race in nevada. >> some may have doubted us, but we never doubted each other. >> but bernie sanders says it's too soon to count him out. >> we have come a very long way. we have the momentum. >> where does the race go from here? they will both be here in minutes. plus donald trump wins