list," with bill weir on sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern time, right here on cnn. thanks, bill. appreciate it. thank you, everyone, for watching. wolf starts right now. ♪ hello, i'm wolf blitzer. 1:00 p.m. here in washington. 7:00 p.m. in aleppo, syria. 1:30 a.m., friday, in pyongyang, north korea. wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us. we begin this hour with political drama unfolding in the race for the white house. can donald trump win enough delegates to lock up the republican presidential nomination or will the so-called establishment find a way to stop him? on top of that, anti trump conservative activists have been meeting behind closed doors in washington today. among other things, discussing whether to launch a third-party campaign against trump in if he does become the republican nominee. the race now is all about

delegates. so far, trump leads with 662. he's ahead of senator ted cruz by more than 250. but trump will need to win about 57% of the remaining delegates to clinch the nomination. republicans are bracing for the prospect, possibly, of the contested convention if he doesn't get that majority. let's take a closer look at how many people so far have voted for donald trump, with half the states voting in republican caucuses and primaries so far. here's an unofficial vote total for all the ballots actually cast so far. look at this. trump has about 7.5 million votes. that's about 37% of the vote. cruz has almost 5.5 million votes. kasich has 2.7 million votes. trump clearly way ahead. for the democrats, look at this. hillary clinton has 8.6 million total votes cast. that, according to an unofficial vote total. bernie sanders has 6.1 million votes cast so far. those are actual votes cast in republican and democratic

primaries and caucuses so far this year. in this cycle. let's take a closer look at the presidential race. joining us, our cnn chief political analyst, gloria borger, joining us from new york. here in washington with me, our senior political reporter, me ya malika henderson, and cnn political director, david chalian. let's start with the votes, gloria. trump clearly has 2 million more votes than cruz. what are you hearing about this possibility that anti trump establishment elements, as they're called, are gathering today here in washington to discuss some other option other than trump? >> well, wolf, these are anti trump conservative elements of the party. my source took great pains to distinguish himself from the anti trump establishment wing of the party, because both the establishment and conservatives, this conservative group, really want to challenge trump at the convention. i was told that there was, quote, absolute consensus, wolf, on trying to stop trump from

getting to that magic number of 1,237. and that there remains optimism as this source put it, that that was possible. how do you do this? one of the ways, and one of the things they're sort of tossing around is this option of a third party to combat trump. there's division within this group, wolf, about whether you could actually form a third party. the more likely thing is to use existing third parties like say the libertarian party to get ballot access. they believe now that if trump were to become the nominee, that the republican party would cease to be a party that traditional conservative could be a part of. and they're very serious about this. and as i said, wolf, so now you've got the establishment on the one hand trying to figure out a way to challenge trump, and you've got what might source calls the reagan revolutionaries on the other side, trying to

figure out a way to challenge trump also. >> and david chalian, that could be a powerful coalition if you put the anti trump forces together. but the argument would be, would that not guarantee a hillary clinton win, that she would be elected -- you divide the republicans like that with a third party, that guarantees a hillary clinton win. >> i have not heard anyone make the case yet for how a third party, if you take a swath of conservatives and move them to a third party, or if donald trump himself goes to a third party, how that doesn't guarantee hillary clinton in the white house. i have not heard anyone make that case that it could do that yet. so i think that that is a tricky proposition. gloria, you wanted to get in? >> well, i don't think -- no one would doubt that it might elect hillary clinton. i think these -- these are people who believe that there is no room for them in a republican party any more that would nominate donald trump. i mean, these are -- you know, these are realists here. they get it. i think what they're staging is a walkout, basically.

>> maybe a walkout. we just got an updated number of delegates. we have just updated the delegate count right now. this is the latest estimate we have. 678 delegates committed to trump. 418 for ted cruz. 145 for kasich. the magic number, 1,237, that's what you need in order to be the republican nominee on the first ballot. >> that's right and folks want to stay in. people like kasich, people like ted cruz, to essentially deny him that total, 1,237. he has said he feels like maybe he can get that. and just like the contested convention, if they try to wrestle this nomination away from donald trump, then they're left with how do they explain that to the millions and millions of voters who went to the polls who got off work early and cast their ballot for donald trump? in these many, many states. so it's a problem. it feels like republicans don't have any good options at this point. if it's donald trump, that is a

risky proposition to have him at the head of the republican party and all these other options almost equally as bad. >> i want you to note in those new delegate totals what happened there. donald trump increased his margin over ted cruz. we had about a 254 delegate lead. you now have him at a 260 gat lead. he has padded his lead there. i talked to a cruz source the other day, the day the contest on tuesday, who was advising me to sort of look at 250 as a key number. and if his delegate lead was pushing closer towards 300, that was going to make trump so formidable. and if they could keep him closer to a 250 delegate lead, they felt they could still rob him of 1,237 at the end of the day. 260 is starting to move in that direction. >> gloria, what of these conservative faith leaders and republican establishment leaders opposed to trump say to the actual numbers? forget about the delegates for a

minute. the actual who have voted in primaries. donald trump has more than 7.5 million people. cruz 5.4. more than 2 million people have vet voted for trump over cruz. kasich, 2.7 million. what do you say to those millions of trump sponsors out there? >> look, they understand. these numbers are pretty hard to argue with, wolf. and that's why i think these folks are feeling alienated from their own party. the establishment has been really slow off the mark here. so have these conservatives. whom i thought actually might decide to rally around ted cruz. that doesn't seem to be the case, at least with this group, that was meeting this morning. i think the entire party has kind of -- was caught unaware. they had no idea what was occurring within their own base of the party. and now they're in -- kind of an

untenable position. it looks like trump is going to get the nomination. and they look, you know, very late in this game. and they look like they're trying to do anything to stop him where he remains very public, you know, very popular within their own party. i think for these conservatives that met today, the signal that i was getting was, look, we may not have a home in this party any more if it's led by donald trump. and we may need to just form something else and go elsewhere. >> all right, guys. stand by. we more to assess. other information coming in, as well. marco rubio, he has one more big decision to make. who will he endorse, if anyone. where will he go, where will his followers go, where is the money heading? plus, hospitals coming under fire in war-torn syria. our new and unflinching look at the air strikes and what they mean for the wounded and the doctors trying to take care of those people.

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1,237. that's the magic number donald trump is trying to hit in order

to clinch the republican presidential nomination and avoid a contested convention. but can he do it? let's bring back our cnn political panel. let's talk about marco rubio for a second. he dropped out the other night. he's got some supporters out there. he's still got some campaign money. where is that headed? >> that's right. he's got delegates, right? if this becomes a nasty fight between delegates and where do those delegates go, he can certainly a signal one way or the other. he has told folks in minnesota, one of the three states he won, that the only conservative in this race is cruz. so that might be an early signal of where his support might go. whether or not rubio endorsement the at this point really matters, when all of the establishment endorsements from are governors haven't really mattered in these contests, but in terms of releasing delegates, that could matter down the line. >> gloria, the senate minority leader, harry reid said today, republicans themselves are responsible for the rise of donald trump. he said they created what he called drought conditions and

trump simply struck the match. listen to this. >> sort of punch first, ask questions later is exactly what we have come to expect from donald trump. we know where he learned it. if senator mcconnell wonder from where donald trump came, he should take a look in the mirror. no one is working harder to support trump than mitch mcconnell. >> all right. what is reid trying to do, by blaming the republican leadership, mitch mcconnell, among others, for trump's rise? >> this is a man trying to win back control of the senate. and you can hear what he's doing. it's pretty obvious, right? mitch mcconnell is the leader of the republicans. there are a lot of republicans up for re-election in blue states. the control of the senate is very much at stake. if donald trump is going to become the nominee, harry reid wants to tie every single republican in the senate to donald trump.

he's already started doing it before the republican convention i guarantee you he's going to it continue it one way or another until the election. >> very quickly, david. the former house speaker, john boehner, he says if no one gets enough votes, he would support paul ryan emerging from the convention, as the republican presidential nominee to which ryan responded -- listen to this. >> i saw boehner last night and i told him to knock it off. you know. i used slightly different words. nothing has changed, other than the perception this is more likely to become an open convention than we thought before. >> yeah. i guess he's pretty blunt about that. although we should remind ourselves, he also said he would never consider the speakership. and guess what podium he's using there to have this press conference today. so stranger things have happened than if an entire party came to him and said we need you now. and this happened on the floor of the convention in cleveland. i imagine paul ryan's answer might be different. >> and he was the vice

presidential nominee four years ago. let's not forget about that. thanks very much. coming up, a chilling kill list now linked to isis. the names of dozens of officers published online, along with where they live. the latest on the investigation, a live report, coming up. enough? i'm gonna take mucinex sinus-max. too late, we're about to take off. these dissolve fast. they're new liquid gels. and you're coming with me... you realize i have gold status? mucinex sinus-max liquid gels. dissolves fast to unleash max strength medicine. let's end this. theand the kids always eat sky their vegetables.e. because the salad there is always served with the original hidden valley ranch. here's the plan. you're a financial company that cares, but your logo is old and a little pointy. so you evolve. you simplify. you haven't changed. you still help people live their best lives. and finally your new logo is ready, and you decide the perfect time to show the world is right... now.

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now live from chicago with details. ryan, so how is isis connected? how did they get this information, this so-called kill list is obviously very disturbing. >> very disturbing, wolf. when people look into this, i talked to several police officers. they're very upset about the idea that this information is out there. this kill list was apparently pulled from a website where you can see isis supporters have put up the names of these officers out there. now what i've been told from several officers, they're upset because obviously this puts their families in danger. now one of our affiliates tells us they believe that a website was hacked that police officers are looking for auto insurance, and that's how these names were pulled. and in that minnesota area, we do know that the fbi is looking into this, and the fact that several groups have infiltrated the minnesota area and have been recruiting people. so we have talked to the fbi just about this investigation. and how they're going to move forward.

>> we know we have a unique situation where we've had several young people who have left the state in order to join terrorist organizations. it's something that factors into our california beinglous as we go about our business. >> so wolf, obviously you can see there's been a lot of interest in that area. the minnesota area. >> but these are affecting officers across the state. it's a conversation that a lot of people are having, especially in the law enforcement communities, because if you put their families in danger, this is a conversation they want to have. of course, making sure people understand the danger they're in. >> it's a very serious situation, and unfortunately not the first time the so-called kill list has emerged. a kill list of this nature. apparently linked to isis. all right, ryan, thank you very much. coming up, hospitals caught in the line of fire in syria, with bombs falling from the sky. what's motivating doctors to stay on the ground and help people? cnn's clarissa ward takes us to the lines. this is a can't-miss exclusive report. stick around for that. and the announcement from

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there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. for the first time in a dozen years, the united states has declared that a genocide has taken place. back in 2004, it was in darfur. today it's in it certify i can't and iraq. john kerry made the announcement earlier this morning. rebels in syria have been battered by isis, by syrian government forces and by russian war planes. cnn's senior international correspondent, clarissa ward, went undercover into syria where virtually no western tourists have gone for more than a year to show what it's like to live in place that is are not seen as cities with hospitals and

courthouses, but instead they're seen as just a grouping of potential targets. i want to warn our viewers, here in the united states and around the world, the report you're about to see includes graphic images that some viewers may find disturbing. >> reporter: it is an all too common sight in rebel-held parts of syria. the moments after an air strike. dazed survivors stagger from the rubble. those still trapped call out for help. the target this time, the courthouse. activists say the bombs were russian. when rebels took the provincial capital, they saw it as a crucial opportunity to demonstrate that they could build their own state, and they believe that's exactly why the russians bombed this courthouse. to undermine that effort. any civilian in the structure is a potential target, including

hospitals. last month, four were hit in a single day. one in the city of noman was supported by doctors without borders. this is what remains now. at least 25 people were killed. [ speaking in foreign language ] dr. elsued was the general manager. he told us they are targeted deliberately. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> translator: they want to kill the maximum number of people. also, they want to forbid the area from having medical service. if there's no doctor, no nurse, no hospital, then there is no health care for the people, and people will flee. >> reporter: is it possible that they did not know that this was a hospital? [ speaking in foreign language ] >> translator: everyone knows this is a hospital. there was even a sign that said this is a hospital.

but if they didn't know, this is an even bigger disaster. if you were bombing a building like this without knowing it's a hospital, it means you are hitting totally indiscriminately. >> reporter: against the backdrop of this vicious war is factions gaining the upper hand here. among them, the al-qaeda affiliate al-nusra. the landscape is peppered with signs, and urging all men to join the jihad. one encourages women to cover up completely. dr. gindi works at the only hospital still standing. he sees this conflict in black and white. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> translator: the whole of the syrian people is against isis and against extremism. but we see that the russians are bombing far from isis, and they're focused on civilian areas. [ speaking in foreign language ]

>> reporter: i asked him why he doesn't leave syria. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> translator: if i did not, i would abandon my conscience. this is our country. we can't desert it. if we left, then we have sold our morals. who would treat the people? i can very easily leave, but we will remain steadfast. i am prepared to die rather than to leave. and i will carry on no matter what. >> reporter: carry on in the faint hope that for the next generation of syrians, it will be better. >> and clarissa ward is joining us live from new york. what more do we know about the targeting, especially the

targeting ariel targeting of these hospitals? >> well, we have reached out to the russians and to the regime of bashar al assad, and essentially what they have said is, we have never hit any civilian targets. we have never targeted any civilians. and that is also what the regime has been saying now for years. we did manage to get ahold of a report from doctors without borders for 2015, and in rebel-held areas in the space of one year, 82 medical facilities were hit. and if you look at the breakdown of those hits, there is a massive spike in the month of october. now for our viewers, it's important to remember, the russian military intervention began towards the end of september. is that a coincidence? i will allow our viewers to decide that for themselves. >> when you went undercover and we saw you there undercover and this is the third report that we have aired this week of your amazing work over there, it must have been so scary to be there, to be in the midst of the

arrestelle strikes, what was it to find out what was going on? >> well wolf, this is a trip that took us six months to plan. i think that gives a sense already of how complicated the landscape is. you have many different dangers from the threat of kidnapping, the jihadist presence and, of course, the bombardment which at the time we were there before the cessation of hostilities began, was relentless. in less than 24 hours, we heard the fighter jets overhead. and believe me, there is a pit that forms in your stomach when you hear the sound of those fighter jets, because you know that a bomb is about to fall, and you don't know exactly where it is going to fall. in the case that we witnessed, it was on a fruit market. so we were there for just under a week, wolf, and at times it was terrifying. but the people in syria who still remain, they have to live there all of the time. this is their new normal, wolf.

>> certainly is such a frightful situation. clarissa, stay with us. i want to bring in the state department spokesman, john kirby right now. admiral kirby, you're the state department spokesman. i want to get your reaction to clarissa's amazing reporting on the ground. i know you have seen some of this work. but it's an awful situation over there. how much blame do you put on the russians right now? >> well, first of all, i do want to commend clarissa for the excellent reporting. it was a very compelling piece, and i have watched it now several times. and it just is heart-wrenching to watch this, and certainly very gripping. i would tell you that we have been long saying that the russian military presence in syria was designed to bolster to strengthen their hand against the opposition. and in clarissa's report, you can see the effect that that kind of activity had continued to have in terms of helping the assad regime stay in power and

to try to push back on the opposition. now since the cessation, i will say that russian air strikes are being directed against dash, against isil, against the terrorist groups. and they have been meeting their obligations under the cessation of hostilities. but no question about it, that their military activity over the last several months has done nothing to help calm the violence in syria. again, up until the cessation. >> admiral kirby, clarissa has got a question. she's back from amazing reporting. she's got a question for you. go ahead, clarissa. >> sure. >> well, i just would like to get a better sense from you, the question coming from the syrian people, repeatedly during our week on the ground was, why has the u.s. not done more to take russia to task for what essentially amounted to war crimes? >> well, we have been very much focused on what russia was doing inside syria, in their efforts to bolster the assad regime. and that is why we have pressed so, so hard for this cessation

of hostilities and why we were very glad to get russia to the table inside the issg, to agree to that cessation of hostilities, which, as i said, they have largely been complying with here for the last couple of weeks. i mean, the other thing that we pressed hard with the russians for is to make sure we get humanitarian access to so many besieged towns, that are in desperate need of medical supplies, food and water. and the russians have used their influence on the assad regime to allow that access to occur. still needs to be more done. there is no question about the assad regime, still -- we're seeing reports of them now removing medical supplies from some of this humanitarian aid, which is unacceptable. so still more to be done. we're going to press our case with russia to continue to use their influence on the assad regime to do the right thing. >> i want to talk to you, admiral kirby, about secretary kerry's announcement today that the u.s. does believe isis is engaged in genocide against the

yazidiees. what does it mean? >> it means a few things, wolf. one, it documents officially for history sake, what we have known for many months, this group has been doing. and it's a systemic way. number two, it formally recognizes the suffering of the victims. so many innocent people that have been affected by these horrific, horrific acts of violence, and atrocities by this group. number three, we hope that it helps galvanize not just the world community, but even communities here in the united states, to look at this and try to do more to help us address the challenge presented by a group like dash. particularly when it comes to the collection and analyzing of information and evidence that frankly we're going to continue to seek and to try to catalog going forward. now, what it won't do is it's not going to change our focus on this group. now, we have intensified our efforts on dash in just the last several months. and as you know, wolf, we have been flying air strikes since

august of 2014. we have, in fact, acted as if these were acts of genocide all the way back to the operations on mt. sinjar back in august of 2014. this codifies that as the secretary said. it's important to name this crime and we have done that. but in practicality, we have been acting as if this is genocide and doing everything we could. other communities inside iraq, to try to stem genocide from happening. >> because we have heard all these reports and clarissa, she's an eyewitness. she has seen the devastation of churches, individuals being obviously beheaded. but also crucified, if you will. this is a systematic effort. genocide, that's a word that means a systemic effort to destroy a group of people, right? >> to destroy them in whole or in part. and, again, the secretary, as he said this morning, has seen enough evidence now that he believes and he is asserted that these are acts of genocide. he has seen enough evidence. he also said that we don't have a complete record, because

there's -- there's information -- it's spotty. we don't have people on the ground in great numbers or even other organizations to be able to see everything that dash is doing. but we have a complete enough record to make this determination. >> very quickly, clarissa, do you have a final question you have for admiral kirby? >> well, i just think it's interesting. we talk about this genocide, and isis' crimes which obviously are heinous. again, the question that i kept hearing over and over on the ground from the syrian people is why does the u.s. care so much more about the crimes that isis is perpetuating against minorities in iraq and syria, than they do about what they would call the genocide that the assad regime is perpetuating inside syria. >> yeah, it's a very fair point, clarissa. let me say that i certainly understand how that sentiment could be had. but i'll tell you, it's absolutely not the case. we are fundamentally trying to stop this civil war in syria. to stop this bloodshed.

there have been too many syrians killed and millions of them sent out of the country to seek refuge because of what the assad regime is doing to them. and that is why we are so focused on trying to find a political solution. and look, without question, in the last two weeks, the violence is down in syria. there is no question about that. because of the cessation of hostilities. there is also no question about the fact that a couple of hundred thousand or more syrians are now getting aid, food, water, medical supplies that they weren't before, and frankly, there's no question that the political talks in generva are pursuing, progressing. we're getting there. there's a lot more work to do. i can tell you that nobody in the united states government, certainly not here at the state department, is turning a blind eye to the atrocities that bashar al assad have visited upon his own people. we have always maintained what needs to happen as a political solution to this conflict, and that's what we're putting our energies on, finding a political solution so they have a government that's responsible to them, responsive to them and they can come home to a whole

unified syria. >> let's not forget, maybe 300,000, 400,000 people have been killed over the five years of this warfare in syria. hundreds of thousands more have been injured. millions have been made homeless refugees. it's an awful, awful situation. >> no question about it. thank you very much for joining us. clarissa ward, thanks for your brilliant reporting. your very courageous reporting for all of us. we're going to stay on top of this story, obviously. coming you, breaking news around lindsey graham. we now know who he is backing for president of the united states. dana bash has the information when we come back. born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. and what an amazing time it's been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. so, we say thank you america for a century of trust, for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together.

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this is cnn breaking news. >> we've got some breaking news. dana bash is here with the information, the former republican presidential candidate, the senator, lindsey graham. we have been wondering, is he going to make an endorsement, not make an endorsement. what have you been hearing? >> i just spoke to him and we're waiting for the interview to come up and hopefully we can bring it to viewers very soon. the bottom line is that he started to make his way towards

ted cruz as soon as it became clear to him that donald trump was going to be very, very hard to stop. and now he is actually going to hold a fund-raiser for ted cruz in and around the apac big conference, which is, of course, the american israel public affairs committee, the big conference here in washington. he's going to have a lot of his donors to come and fund raise for him. and now i'm told we have the interview, so let's listen. >> senator, you have some news. >> yeah. i'm going to be doing a fund-raiser with and for senator cruz. i think he's the best alternative to donald trump. he's certainly not my preference, senator cruz is not, but he's a reliable republican conservative of which i've had many differences with. i doubt donald trump's conservatism and i think he would be a disaster for the party and so i'm trying to help raise money for senator cruz and the cruz committee. >> so you are raising money for him. are you endorsing him? you said effectively an doersment. >> what i'm saying, john kasich

i think is the most viable general election candidate. i just don't see how john gets to the primary. this is an outsider year. he's seen as an insider. so i think the best alternative to donald trump, to stop him from getting to 1,237 is ted cruz. and i'm going to help ted in every way i can. i'm going to raise hundred for him in the community. and if i were in one of the states coming up in terms of voting and i didn't like trump, i would vote for cruz. >> i've known you and watched you particularly with ted cruz over the past several years. i'm actually waiting for pigs to start flying down the street. >> yeah. well, it telts tells you a lot about where we are as a party. >> it sure does. >> i've had many differences with senator cruz's tactics, but i believe he would be a more reliable partner for israel. i think he would build the keystone pipeline. senator clinton would not. i think he would repeal and replace obamacare. i don't think she would. i think he's a reliable republican conservative who would pick a true conservative to be on the supreme court. i doubt -- i have doubts about

mr. trump. i think mr. trump is not a republican. i don't think he's a conservative. i think his campaign is built on zo xenopho xenophobia, race baiting and religious big tree. and i think senator cruz is a conservative who i can support. >> and so here is the actual invitation that just is going out to a lot of the donors that lindsey graham has relied on for his senate race. and it says right here, come join lindsey graham for a fund-raiser for ted cruz for president. again, it was very clear in that interview, it was not something he ever imagined doing. but considering the alternatives, considering where the republican party is right now, the math, the map and the calendar, he feels like this is something he wants to do to try to stop donald trump. >> earlier, as he cut this with us, as well, what's your reaction when you hear this? >> well, yeah. surprising. but lindsey graham is at where a lot of republicans have arrived.

maybe reluctantly. maybe begrudgingly. but i think at the beginning of this cycle, the people who said i would never vote for ted cruz have thanks to donald trump, really, sort of warmed up to him. he's at the very at least, a conservative. which for a lot of conservatives we feel is missing from a donald trump candidacy. the extension crisis for conservatives is that donald trump looks like he's going to secure the nomination. ted cruz looks like the only person who might challenge him. ted cruz will have a very tough time in the general. john kasich probably has the better chance in the general at beating hillary, so we've got nowhere to go here. hence lindsey graham's, you know -- >> he's gone from being a candidate, to backing bush, to now very reluctantly backing cruz. the fact of the matter is, to your point about john kasich, he

said very bluntly he believes kasich would have the best chance in a general election. a lot of republicans feel that way. but the problem is, when you come to the convention, which everybody thinks is going to be the forum on deciding on the republican nominee, he's just going to be so far behind, it's not going to be possible, which is why he thinks cruz is the best bet. >> it looks like donald trump has the clearest. >> i think he does. i think there's a lot of sort of finger crossing and late-night prayers, you know, amongst some in establishment circles that somehow ted cruz can beat him on delegates. at the very least, these two candidates can maybe keep donald trump from maybe clinching before the convention. but either way, i think donald trump goes into the conventions with the most delegates. and it's going to be a hard argument to make that someone with so many fewer votes, maybe

even no delegates, should somehow be the nominee of this party. >> the one thing i want to underscore is it's not just support, it's money. because, you know, ted cruz has done very, very well fund-raising. his wife has been kind of helping him lead the fund-raising charge. they're fund-raising dynamos. everybody on his team is. this is a long hall if you're talking about now and july. so the fact that lindsey graham is helping him and kind of taking his longtime voters and blending them and giving them to ted cruz is a big plus. >> good reporting as usual, dana, first here on cnn. the news, lindsey graham now supporting ted cruz. coming up, a very different story we're watching, demanding answers in the flint water crisis. >> they should have rushed in sooner to rescue the people of michigan from governor snyder's vindictive administration and utter incompetence. >> lawmakers put the governor in

the hot seat over lead-laced water that has poisoned young children. we're going to get reaction from michigan congressman dan kildy who's standing by live. i'm gonna take mucinex sinus-max. enough pressure in here for ya? too late, we're about to take off. these dissolve fast. they're new liquid gels. and you're coming with me...

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so call today. because now's the perfect time to learn more. go long. raised voices and heated accusations punctuated today's hearing on the flint michigan water crisis held here in washington up on capitol hill by the oversight committee. members of congress questioned the michigan governor snyder and the environmental protection agency administrator gina mccarthy. >> that's cheap, oh, yeah, we just got regrets. that's cheap. >> you have to look at how the law workings. >> yeah, you know what, and it failed. you failed. you still don't get it.

member after member. you still don't get it. you have bred a culture at epa that is built of fraud, denial, incompetent and bureaucratic nepotism. >> pretty soon, we will have men who strike their wives saying, i'm sorry, dear, but there were failures at all levels. people who put dollars over the fundamental safety of the people do not belong in government. >> snyder and mccarthy also had the chance to defend their records or apologize. listen. >> where it took outside experts, that's tragic. we failed at doing what though have happened in terms of career bureaucrats that were experts, quote/unquote experts, to be open with you, i get so mad that i never should have believed them. >> we just couldn't get a straight answer anywhere. people don't deserve that out of their government. i will take responsibility for

not pushing hard enough. but i will not take responsibility for causing this problem. >> here with me is michigan democratic congressman dan kildy, district includes flint, michigan. i was there. awful situation. should the epa administrator and the governor of michigan resign? >> first of all, whether the governor resigns or not is really a matter of his conscience. i think the epa administrator demonstrated there were failures at the epa but their biggest failure was trusting what the michigan department of environmental quality was saying to them, so even the governor's own task force points the vast majority of responsibility to the state of michigan. i have not yet made a determination as to whether he should resign. i think after today's hear, the governor needs to do some soul searching to determine whether he has the moral authority to be the governor. >> mccarthy, the epa administrator, the buck stops with her, right? >> that's part of the problem, the buck stops with her, yes, to the extent the law allows the

epa to intervene when a state is not enforcing the law. one of the things i had real difficulty with was a lot of the members of congress that were really attacking her and calling for her head are the very same people that are most critical when the epa does reach beyond what they think is her formal authority. most said she should have gone beyond her formal authority. a pretty extraordinary thing to hear from people. most of whom support candidates for president who want to eliminate the epa. >> you've got to clean up the situation, make the water safe in flint, michigan. when i was there, i got the impression, but for the grace of god, this could happen in almost any industrial older town in the united states. and they've got to learn the lessons from this disaster and make sure it doesn't happen again. >> that's for sure. anywhere you have lead pipes, you have to manage that system. the failure here wasn't just old infrastructure. you have that in lots of cities. the failure was switching to a new water source, the flint river, without any real science,

and then the state of michigan told everybody the water was safe when they knew it was not. that's something you rarely see -- >> that's unconsconable. >> now i hope though the focus can turn much more sharply to how we solve this problem. i was really disappointed in the governor's answers on that. he says he's basically committed everything that he's going to provide. we know that the total cost over the next decade or so of fixing this problem is about $1.5 billion. and the governor suggested he'll supply maybe $200 million of that. he has $1 billion. >> they've got to come up with the money. because thousands of people, their lives, their kids lives, are on the line. >> this is where apologies ring pretty hollow. i get that, he feels sorry. i take him as being sincere in that regard. but it takes more than that. when you do something wrong, you apologize, but then you step up and you make it right. and you have to -- wherever that takes you. and when the state of michigan is sitting on $1 billion of

unbudgeted money that he doesn't know what to do with, and all he can come up with for the biggest crisis that he will ever face is less than 20% of that, that's not responsibility. >> if there's a hurricane, if there's a disaster, the federal government comes in and help, fema. this is a disaster. somebody's got to fix this. these people, their lives are on the line. >> the issue of accountability needs to be pursued but it needs to be pursued after we get the solution. py submitted legislation that would just say, okay, responsibility at every level of government, even though it's not proportional, but let's just split it. $1.5 billion, half from state, hatch from the federal government. my legislation would do that. it would help flint turn the corner. >> you think of all the money the u.s. is spending. infrastructure development, for example in afghanistan right now or iraq for that matter. you think they could come up with the money to help the people of flint, michigan. >> sure should. >> this is obviously a heartbreaking story. congressman, thanks for all the good work.

congressman dan kildee of michigan. thank you for watching. i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "the situation room." the news continues next right here on cnn. hi there, good to be with you. i'm brooke baldwin. listen, right now, it's trump versus everyone else. some of his fellow conservatives today meeting behind closed door, talking about ways to take him down. you're about to hear from one republican senator who is now backing senator ted cruz for the party's nomination after joking about his murder on the senate floor. so stand by for that. but first the senate's top democrat blaming republicans for creating donald trump. each talking about senator harry reid. he laid into republican leaders today. saying their obstructionism,