we are counting down to cnn's gop town hall in wisconsin. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. our town hall is just hours away followed by wisconsin's primary in just one week but will the trump/cruz war be last straw for women voters? plus, the $140 million sex tape. that's how much jurors awarded hulk hogan after gawker posted his tape. they say they are sending a message about arrogance and new york snobbism. gawker's nick denton says this is all about free press and it's not the sex tape that embarrassed hulk hogan. it's something else. both sides are here to discuss that. but it's been a very busy day on the campaign trail.

joining me is matt lewis, kayleigh mcenany, trump supporter and lanny chen. good evening to all of you. kayleigh, you first. the next republican town hall is here on cnn tomorrow night. what does donald trump need to say? what will voters be looking for, in your estimation? >> the biggest thing is his economic message. you look at wisconsin in january and all 72 counties, unemployment actually rose there. so donald trump needs to pivot from what we've been seeing on twitter and get back to the message that has made him so popular in mississippi and michigan when he brings forth this message i am anti-free trade or not necessarily anti-free trade but within reason. if he pivots back to that message, he can win wisconsin. >> lenny, how important is

wisconsin in terms of denying donald trump the 1237 delegates to seal the deal for the nomination? >> don, it's crucially important because, first of all, this is the first state that's gone in a long time. it's going to be important for ted cruz or the anti-trump forces to do well in wisconsin. it's also, frankly, a bellweather. wisconsin is a very important state. there are a lot of important elements in that state that reflect success in a general election. what we're going to see in wisconsin is whether donald trump can really win over the independent voters, for example, the women voters that he's going to need to have if he's going to win in november. and all of those issues are important. i really do hope mr. trump pivots away from foreign policy. we'll see what happens over the next few days. >> matt, cnn has a poll that shows that 73% of women have a negative feeling about donald trump. can he overcome that number? >> i think the way to do it is

to attack heidi cruz. >> that's sarcasm, isn't it? >> i think ronald reagan was probably the last president to win the female vote. there is a gender gap but donald trump exacerbates that problem and, look, whether it's rosie o'donnell or megyn kelly or the latest heidi cruz, this man has a pattern of attacks women. >> kayleigh, the battle between trump and cruz, go ahead, what did you want to say? >> sure. obviously he needs to stop doing that and pivot away from that. it doesn't help him. i would argue with matt that donald trump is the only republican canned out of any of them on that stage who has said, look, planned parenthood does a lot of good for women, precancer screening, helps a lot of women. i don't want to end that. this is something you don't hear ever on a gop debate stage. donald trump has said it and has managed to do it in a winning manner. >> republicans are hitting hard. they are using that against him. >> they are. but good for him for sticking to

that. good for him for sticking to. i want people to have health care. i don't want people dying on the streets. he's stuck to a lot of things that in the past was an al ka ma. >> you're right. because i remember -- because i remember when the republican party was a pro-life party who didn't want to subsidize planned parenthood and being a part of the global community and so this is a radical departure in many ways. >> how does the -- how does he reconcile -- let me ask you this. how does he reconcile this, when he is being cast by other republicans in the race as not being republican enough, not being conservative enough, not even being a republican for him to say things like that about. ed and what you said about health care. how does he do that? how does he reconcile that? >> look, he's got to call out the republican party. what we just heard matt say, last time we checked, the republican party is pro life.

donald trump is pro life but he's commonsense conservatism in that he can realize, yeah, i don't want to see what's going on with abortion at planned parenthood but -- >> money is spongeable. if you give money to planned parenthood and put it in a silo for them to do some legitimate work, that frees up more money for them to perform abortions. >> i understand why he has said we need to look into preserving the good functions of planned parenthood. that is to say, we need to preserve the precancer screening. maybe that means to take it out of planned parenthood to get rid of the abortion part of it. but it means preserving it. republicans in the past never looked at that. they never acknowledge the good that planned parenthood does which is what you do, i'm pro life, sorry, planned parenthood has to go. >> i want lanhee to get in on this. go ahead. >> i think to matt's point, this is the issue with donald trump.

there is no core there. there is no conservative core there. in a republican primary, i tend to think over the long haul, it's a problem. he doesn't stand for a strong foreign policy engaged in the world. the fact that this individual has been all over the map when it comes to issues of life, the fact that he has a policy that is mercantilist at best, i think those are going to be the more important issues. the fact that he doesn't have a core, the fact that he really is a conservative. he gave this radio interview in wisconsin where he got absolutely hammered and the reason why is because he has no conservative core and i think voters are going to see through that in the next few weeks. >> does this problem get worse if he faces hillary clinton in the general election, matt? >> well, if will be interesting to see how he does, how he pivots, performs. clearly i think that hillary clinton is going to try a couple of things. one, trump is going to drive

turnout for him and against him. so for hillary and for donald trump. hillary is not going to excite anybody. except maybe young women. so i do think the gender gap, which republicans have, you know, for a long time now had a problem with. if it's trump versus hillary clinton, that's going to be a big, big gap. >> lanhee, you supported marco rubio with the remaining candidates battling him out. who do you think will inherit his support? >> i think his support is going to go in multiple directions. people who favored marco rubio favored a republican with a hopeful forward-looking message on the economy and a robust foreign policy. there are elements of that in a few of these different candidates. i don't think that they are unilateral. i don't think they go in one direction. i don't think the share will go

to kasich. >> i want to ask you about kasich and cruz getting together, the kasich campaign reached out to the cruz campaign. cruz campaign saying no way they are doing the campaign as a spoiler and they are not doing it. >> yeah. i thought that was poetic justice. it was great. remember when marco rubio said sd -- encouraged his voters to vote for john kasich in ohio and now kasich is the one going to cruz with this, you know, deal, this plan and now he's rebuffed by ted cruz. i think kasich had it coming. all right. stick around, everybody. when we come right back, donald trump drills down on foreign policy. why he says he might withdraw troops from some american allies. could that put us at risk?

when your type 2 diabetes numbers aren't moving in the right direction, it can be a burden. but what if you could wake up to lower blood sugar? imagine loving your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. with over 6 million prescriptions and counting, it's the #1 prescribed sglt2 inhibitor that works to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here's how: invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in

to the body through the kidneys and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. invokana® can cause important side effects, including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak, especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections, urinary tract infections, changes in urination, high potassium in the blood, increases in cholesterol, or risk of bone fracture. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis. stop taking and call your doctor right away if you experience symptoms such as rash, swelling, or difficulty breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about any medical conditions, medications you are taking, and if you have kidney or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. imagine life with a lower a1c.

are you loving your numbers? there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. we built our factories here because of a huge natural resource. not the land. the water. or power sources. it's the people. american workers. they build world-class products. and that builds communities. and a better future. for all of us. because making something in america means so much, to so many. weathertech. proudly made in america.

in donald trump's world view, the best way to make america great again just might be to distance ourselves from some allies but not everyone is on board with that. back with me now, matt lewis, kayleigh mcenany and lanhee chen. donald trump has been saying make america great again is his policy. in an interview with the "new

york times," he gets more detailed. he says that allies like japan and south korea aren't paying enough for their own protection and he'd be willing to withdraw troops from there if they didn't pay more. what's your reaction to that? >> not only withdraw troops from there but go nuclear. they cared very deeply about japan and not going -- you know, not having a bomb and about keeping its arm's race out of asia, how they would feel about this. but the interesting thing is, this is -- you know, i was talking earlier about how trump is moving away from conservatism and life issues and other things. this is in a way a full circle. the republican party was once a protectionist party and before world war ii it was an isolationist party. donald trump said america first. that's the name of the charles lindbergh group that didn't want

to get involved in world war ii until after pearl harbor. so this is really full circle. >> he said japan and south korea. we may want to open them up to nuclear nations. what do you make of that idea? >> i almost wish that we could close our eyes and ears and pretend this guy knew what he was talking about. it was calling for us to pull back from some of the bull works of our asian security network that we've had here since the end of the second world war, frankly, and the end of the korean war and you're talking about promoting greater nuclear lie zags of japan, as matt said. you have this notion that we pull away from nato and our allies in europe, that is not the way to make america great again. that's going to make america weaker in the world by not standing by our allies and not to mention all of this talk

about trade policy. donald trump is a true anti-trade candidate. he would be the first anti-trade republican nominee in a long time. so this was a completely incoherent interview that gave us a sense of his world view. >> kayleigh, you've said quietly it was completely incoherent and ha lanhee wishes he almost didn't give the interview. >> i thought it was a great interview and we saw very clearly what the trump doctrine is and what it stands for and that's not intervening with other countries. matt seems to be okay that we go into syria, it's overrun by isis. we withdraw from iraq, we don't leave a contingency force there in a small degree and now it's overrun by isis. the trump doctrine is, america first. we're not going to intervene on other countries unless it's within our interests. our allies need to start paying if they want this part of the united states, you have to start paying for it, to some degree.

it's america first. it's a coherent doctrine. to say it's incoherent is ridiculous. >> i want matt to respond. go ahead, matt. >> i don't know what i said that was okay with the syria and libya, all the things that she cited. look, i do think that this is -- okay. after world war ii, i think there was a consensus in the republican party and the democratic party that, you know, there's two types of leadership. trars transformational and transactional leadership. what donald trump is calling for is transactional leadership. but what wee need is transformational leadership. america is going to be a force for good. part of this, obviously, was during the cold war. but that if america doesn't have a place in the world, that it's not like everybody is going to behave. you know, that people are going to fill the vacuum. that's what happens, for example, when we leave iraq -- you know, barack obama pulls us out of iraq and we don't leave a

reserve force behind. guess what, isis emerges. and bad actors emerge and that's what i'm afraid would happen with the trump doctrine. >> so lanhee, trump says saudi arabia and other allies need to contribute. is he right? >> i understand the sentiment. the idea that we need to have more of our allies engaged in the fight against isis and other terrorist organizations. i ubds that point of view. but the way to do that is not to undercut our allies. what we need to do as americans is retrench from the rest of the world. that is not a view. the point about the trump doctrine, i don't know what that is. saying america first is not a doctrine. there's no definition of engagement, no understanding of how we're going to engage with our friends and adversaries around the world and trump has repeatedly said, i don't want to

give too much away because then the other side will know what i'm going to do. >> how would you characterize his world view? does he have a comprehensive view of how the world works, in your estimation? >> it seems to be that all of this is about a negotiation. it's like he's buying lighting fixturing for his next hotel. it's ridiculous, naive and frankly sad that this person is the front-runner of the republican party who brings to bear no sophisticated view of how the world works. he's got a foreign policy team. there are some decent people on that team. because that interview was garbage. >> kayleigh, is that a fair characterization? >> no. to say that he brings nothing is to completely neglect the fact that donald trump long before hillary clinton ever came against the iraq war, donald trump was against the iraq war. donald trump a month ago said, guys, we need to look at brussels. it's been overrun with radical

islam. "the new york times" came out with an article making fun of donald trump saying donald trump insults the city of brussels and here we are a month later and they were attacked. this is someone on the forefront recognizing when we shouldn't intervene in places and to completely dismiss that and act as if he's a buffoon i think is doing our party a disservice and our country as well. >> i only have 30 seconds left. kayleigh, let me start with you. if mr. trump gets the nomination, do you think he has enough grasp of the details on foreign policy to go toe to toe with hillary clinton? >> yes. >> matt? >> he doesn't have to know that much. he can talk about making america great again. in a campaign, he's fine. >> lanhee? >> he's not ready to be president and i think that will show. >> thank you to all of you.

appreciate it. don't forget, tomorrow night, wisconsin republican presidential town hall at 8:00 eastern. coming up, the death toll in the brussels tear terror attack has run. are police any closer to finding him? who don't have access to basic banking, but that is changing. at temenos, with the microsoft cloud, we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations with nothing but a phone and a tablet. everywhere where there's a phone, you have a bank. now a person is able to start a business, and employ somebody for the first time. the microsoft cloud helped us to bring banking to ten million people in just two years. it's transforming our world. [alarm beeps] ♪

♪ the intelligent, all-new audi a4 is here. ♪ ♪ ain't got time to make no apologies...♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment.

side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. try align for a non-stop,ive sweet-treat-goodness hold-onto-your-tiara, kind-of-day. live 24/7 with 24/7 digestive support. try align, the undisputed #1 ge recommended probiotic.

watching tvs get sharper, oh remotes, you've had it tough. bigger, smugger. and you? rubbery buttons. enter the x1 voice remote. now when someone says... show me funny movies. watch discovery. record this. voila. remotes you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. x1 customers get your voice remote by visiting xfinty.com/voiceremote.

tomorrow marks one week since the deadly brussels terror attacks and a suspect known as the man in white is still on the run tonight. joining me is michael weiss, author "inside the army of terror." belgian authorities released the suspect faycal c. how is it that almost a week later we still don't know who this man is? >> it's funny, the belgians still haven't charged but they released him due to lack of evidence and he went from being called a jihadi horror show to he might be innocent within a space of 24, 48 hours. i think they just got him in a drag net. he had been misidentified on the

basis of the original photograph and now they are releasing new footage of the so-called man in white. it doesn't seem that you can make out what this man looked like. he's suspected to be the handler or ringleader of this operation. the belgians are scratching his head. they don't know where he is. >> what are they saying about the other suspects at large? >> this is part of the ever expanding brussels ring. honestly, nobody really knows where these guys are. this is, again, the fracnophone dispatched back into europe. you have guys that didn't get to syria because they were intradicted or killed on the way or came back. there's still thought to be 130 belgians who have been to a caliphate country and running around. it can be any one of those guys or more, frankly, that they don't even know exists. >> i have to ask you, are belgian authorities up to the

task with this investigation? i know it's hindsight but does it feel like the terrorists are several steps ahead of authorities? >> well, that's the problem with policing in general. it's reactive. it's after an offense has already occurred and now we have to come in and pick up the pieces. there's system was not built to handle this kind of load. they are getting a lot of assistance from western professional intelligence agencies. they have a problem with local police forces. among themselves, they have intelligence sharing problems. they really haven't figured out how to centralize their analysis and there have been allegations they weren't doing sharing at the federal level very well. but all of this is changing, of course, because of the gravity of the situation. >> you're talking about sharing of things but you -- i think you call it human intelligence, as you call it. do they have enough of that? >> yeah. you know, again, human intelligence. these are your spies. these are people who are on the

ground, hearing things, what's going on who know who are the movers and shakers in those networks. i was one of those people. i know what it's like. look, the other accusation is that the belgians haven't done a good job of reaching out to the communities. they don't have enough police that speak the language. these are things that can't be done overnight but -- and it's a little kind of a little too late. but something rather than nothing now. >> i want to show this. this is video. this is new video obtained of the bakraoui brothers' apartment. they are securing the area above and below it because of the chemicals that were leaking from the explosives that they were building. that's a big missed clue, right? >> the chemicals that were being built in there, in the apartment? look, it's always the case, isn't it, we've discussed it with respect to san bernardino.

the guys upstairs or downstairs with the fertilizer, we didn't think twice of what they were doing. this is a community that is very closed off. in fact, people in molenbeek are getting text messages saying do not engage with the police force. don't give them any information. keep your mouth shut. this is a result of allowing a very radical ideology to faster and to be cultivated in plain sight for the course of several decades. now, if these guys were building, you know, high explosive devices that can kill 35 people is now the current death count in this neighborhood and nobody saw anything, nobody suspected anything, i mean, come on. i think this is the belief at this point. >> tactically and structurally, isis is getting hammered, right? but the terror attacks make you feel less safe. what's the reality?

>> i can tell you, europeans are sending a ladder of isis security structures with respect to their abroad. european operatives who have come over from these countrieses, france, brussels, germany, whatever, go over to the caliphate, get sent back or don't. but because they understand the geography, the culture and they have the language are being, you know, sort of turned into the john brennan of isis in a sense. there are people on the ground in raqqa and aleppo, the headquarters of the foreign intelligence branch. they don't speak arabic. they only speak french or english or russian. this is the new phenomenon. >> you are the perfect person to ask this. this is video showing the el bakraoui brothers partying,

drink, smoking pot. how do you think they went from that to isis jihadists? >> a lot of them can have these multiple identities at the same time. you are in these networks, it's fun, it's cool, criminality, the criminal underworld and in some cases a lot of them are really acting out or giving themselves a way out. they were known to be involved in these kinds of things. look, on the parallel side, it could be operational security. i mean, do that. go to clubs. one of the -- i remember one of the isis communiques was talk about your plans in the nightclub because who's going to be able to intercept and surveill you there? so these multiple identities, criminality and using that criminality for terrorism is the most common factors in the recruit in the west. gawker ordered to pay hulk

hogan $140 million after posting part of his sex tape. i'm going to talk to two of the jurors. why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority:you

this just got interesting. why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card

stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ♪ no, you're not ♪ yogonna watch it! ♪tch it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download on the goooooo! ♪ ♪ you'll just have to miss it! ♪ yeah, you'll just have to miss it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. gawker media is hoping an

appeals court will overturn the $140 million judgment against the website, its founder and a former editor. they were sued by the wrestler hulk hogan for invasion of privacy after gawker posted a snippet of a video showing hogan having sex. some jurors say they were sending a message with their verdict. in a moment, i'll speak with nick denton, the founder of gawker media. first, two of the jurors from the case. thank you for joining us. kevin, to you first. >> how are you doing? >> i'm doing great. kevin, you first. you awarded hulk hogan more than $140 million. that's an amazing amount of money. what was behind your verdict? >> well, mainly the evidence. the evidence showed that basically, you know, the loss of revenue that hulk hogan could have made off of the video and

also pain and suffering that he went through this entire ordeal and basically the evidence that was presented in front of us. that's what we had to work with. that's what the judge's orders were to have us look and examine that evidence without bias towards either side and that's exactly what we did. >> what was the most convincing piece of evidence, kevin? >> well, the fact that there was no evidence showing that they gave gawker the rights to show the video. and that's really what the crux of the decision was about. that's really what -- in large part, what this case was about. >> shane, gawker -- >> they didn't have the permission to show it. >> gawker argued that this video was news worthy in part because hulk hogan is a with a larger than life personality. was that argument at all

convincing? did you debate that? >> we absolutely debated that. we had a great jury. there were six of us. we all came from different perspectives of life and came in with different thoughts and balanced each other really well through that. quite frankly, we didn't think that was the case at all as far as mr. bollea. it was very clear this was invasion of privacy and it was very clear he did not want that tape to be put out to the public. and so that was the evidence that -- that was absolutely 100% clear to all of us. >> okay. so kevin, listen, after the verdict, denton said, it turns out this was never about the sex on the tape but racist language on another, unpublished tape that threatened hogan's reputation and career. as our lawyers argued in legal brefs that were kept secret by the trial judge from the public about his daughter dating f'ing

n words might emerge. it is now clear that hogan's lawsuit was a calculated attempt to prevent gawker or anyone else who might obtain evidence of his racism from publicing a truth more interesting or damaging than a revelation about his sex life." would that have changed anything for you, kevin? >> i'd have to see the video. but since i haven't seen the video, i can only go on what i have seen and what i have seen, you know, the fact that he did not want that video shown, is really all i can go on. i guess that would have to be a question for the jury. >> shane, same question for you. >> don, yeah. sure. thank you. you know, obviously it's the opposite for me. it makes it even more clear that he did not want that video to be out there. if you think about the kind of things, the comments that he made on the actual sex tape as well as what you just mentioned, obviously that's not somebody that knew he was being taped and that this is something that would go out to the public.

so i think that solidifies it in my mind even more so that mr. hogan was not involved in this as far as knowing that it was happening and obviously he didn't want it out. >> some jurors have said the guamer people thought that they were above the law. explain what you mean by that, shane. >> sure. absolutely. i think it was very clear the way mr. denton kind of -- his philosophy with his company and the way he's brought his people in is that they are all about going across the line. they are not about normal journalism, ethical journalism. this is about taking it to a completely different limit and they are testing it and this is why we're here, is basically they crossed the first amendment. they crossed a right of privacy. and this is the whole crux of the whole thing and why we're here. >> jurors have also said that there was a sense of arrogance. is there a disconnect between nick denton's values and what gawker deems acceptable and what the rest of the country thinks?

>> you know, actually, i think on the arrogance, there was a lot of that evidence or presentation that we had from people getting on the stand. everybody from mr. denton to emma carmichael all were very arrogant. especially in the deposition. i think mr. denton was very poised and well spoken while he was on the stand but i think that's something that we couldn't take into factor really because this wasn't about judging arrogance or perception of some one. it was strictly following the law based on what we were told and what we were given. and so even though, yes, it was arrogant, we did not consider that at all when it came to making our decision. >> you know, many news organizations, probably all news organizations are looking at this and thinking about the first amendment. kevin, were you hoping to send a message to other media outlets with this multimillion dollar verdict? >> absolutely.

you can't hide behind the first amendment to further your career, your company, to make more money, whatever the case may be. so that's the way i feel about it. as a group, definitely, we felt that in this case, privacy overweighed the right of the first amendment as it applied to gawker. >> shane? >> to that point, don, yes, on the punitive damage side, the last part of it, it was very clear. it was punishing gawker, the folks involved, gawker, mr. denton, a.j. delorio, it was to deter others from doing the same thing. so in a multibillion dollar industry, it would not make that kind of an impact to deter. a lot of things came into our evaluation on all three phases of the damages but quite frankly it was very clear we had to make an example to others to deter. >> kevin, i'm going to be

interviewing nick denton right after you. if you had the opportunity to speak with him personally, what would you tell him? >> after what i have seen and what we have seen as a group, put yourself in his shoes and don't try to further yourself and hide behind the first amendment to further your goals. but, again, i still think, as i have said before in one of the other interviews, didn't seem to me like he had a heart or a soul. that certainly didn't come across the way the people that he hired, the way he trained them, the environment that he fostered at gawker. and -- >> i think quite frankly, bring back ethics and morals in journalism when making decisions about something like this out that is controversial. that's what it comes down to. >> shane, kevin, thank you. >> you're welcome. thanks for having us. up next, nick denton speaks out about what these two jurors just said and what's next for gawker.

when i was sidelined with blood clots in my lung,h. it was serious. fortunately, my doctor had a game plan. treatment with xarelto®. hey guys! hey, finally, somebody i can look up to... ...besides arnie. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® is also proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there's limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. you know, i tried warfarin, but the blood testing and dietary restrictions...

don't get me started on that. i didn't have to. we started on xarelto®. nice pass. safety first. like all blood thinners, don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of a blood clot or stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. you know xarelto® is the #1 prescribed blood thinner in its class. that's a big win. it is for me. with xarelto® there is no regular blood monitoring and no known dietary restrictions. treatment with xarelto®... ...was the right move for us. ask your doctor about xarelto®. some say "free the whales."

for them, nothing else is acceptable. but nothing could be worse for the whales. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do.

we just heard from two jurors explaining why they ordered gawker to pay hulk hogan $140 million over invasion of privacy of a sex tape.

joining me is nick denton, ceo of gawker. how are you holding up? >> i'm doing pretty good. >> do you have anything to say to the jurors, you have no heart -- you appear to have no heart, no soul, and that their message was to bring ethics back to journalism and that you're partially responsible for that. >> in the trial, one of the jurors asked for a dialogue, is it possible to have a dialogue with the witness and, yeah, i wish that was possible, actually, in a court environment. you could actually talk through these issues because it's not super clear. you have to balance the desire that we have as a country for a free press against an individual's right to privacy. >> how does that feel, though, nick, to hear people say it doesn't appear that he has a heart and he has a soul? >> you know how this works. most stories, most good stories

involve somebody seeing information about themselves that they would not -- would rather not be out there. and they are upset. and if every journalist felt every single bit that the subject feels, there would be no news, there would be no news stories or newscasts. the fact is, we're people and then we put on our hat as a journalist and as a journalist, you care mostly about the story and mostly about the readers. >> what hogan's attorneys have said, it appears that your side, you and gawker and the attorneys, really didn't understand what was at stake here and what this trial was all about. they spoke out to the hollywood reporter. let's listen to a little about it and then we'll talk about it. >> know that they actually truly understood this case fm the beginning. i think they felt they would be the champions of the first amendment and everyone would fall in line with their thinking but their thinking was so skewed, it was difficult for anybody to even agree with them on anything they testified to. >> nick denton gives you these

sound bites, statements like i think the invasion of privacy is incredibly good for society. >> yeah. that's such a great point. >> i think the word in closing, this idea that privacy rights didn't matter. i don't think it's a philosophy that resonated very well with jurors. >> in many ways, it doesn't resonate with america. do you think you didn't understand what was going on, that you're living in a whole other world that america doesn't live in in your ivory tower in new york city? >> we are in new york city and part of the media and gawker does represent a provocative end of the media. but we need -- readers need -- if you're going to understand what is going on in the world, you need people who are prepared sometimes just to blurt out the truth, blurt out the real story, say what is really happening rather than constantly being conscious about -- >> why is this a truth that people needed to know?

why is this truth about hulk hogan, a b or c or d level? >> he's a massive global celebrity careful cultivated an image on talk radio, you know, through his wrestling and a celebrity's ability to control that message. if you're a free journalist you don't necessarily always want to go along with a celebrity publicity. >> whether you believe this or not and you and i have discussed this, i've had my issues with gawker, right? and i know you personally. i like you. i don't necessarily agree with everything that gawker does. but where does the right to privacy end and the first amendment that you -- what they are doing in this trial is weighing the first amendment, the freedom of speech, against the right of privacy. and one would think that most people in this country would go into a closed door in an intimate moment and have an expectation of privacy.

what's not to be understood about that? >> well, first of all, let's just remember that this case has actually come to the courts before. a federal judge and the appeals court itself have both found that this story was newsworthy, that was justifiable. he had talked so much about his sex life, he made it such a public topic, such a matter of journal interest that he had given up some of the privacy that individuals expect in their own home with their own spouse. let's be clear, this was not his own home. this was not his spouse. this was a sex act with his best friend taking them and coming in and out of the room. >> so he knew about it? he says he didn't know about it. >> he talks about the sex tape on tmz beforehand. he talks about the sex tape on howard stern. this is a conversation that

existed before and it's ever citizen's right and journalist's right to join in that conversation. >> do you think it's -- to go up against -- to fight the first amendment, that's a pretty huge thing, right? and it's a really big burden. their lawyers have said that this was not just about the first amendment but it was also, again, about the right to privacy. here they are again speaking to the hollywood reporter. take a listen. >> for those people that claim the first amendment was in jeopardy, remember this. this is a bright line rule. you simply don't publish video of people in intimate acts that didn't know they re being filmed and having consented. this represents no chilling effect on any legitimate news or media organization. >> so you've learned a lot about the law in the past couple of years dealing with this case. you know what the first amendment says, right, that congress shall make no law

respecting an establishment but then it goes on to say, this is what freedom of speech does not include, nick, to incite actions that would harm others. and some would say that you harmed. and number two, to make or distribute obscene materials. how do you respond to that? >> i would respond the same way i did. this has already been discussed. a federal judge has already deemed the story to have been newsworthy. i believe that it was joining in a topic that he had -- hulk hogan had himself initiated, both with the discussion of this particular sex tape and the general discussion of his sex life. i don't believe that celebrities should have some line-item veto over every little bit of coverage that they get just because they say they give permission for certain things to get out doesn't mean that's the only commentary and only images that could ever get out into the public domain. >> and in talking to folks, even some people in our own friend's

circle, what makes gawker think that they are above the rules of journalism. mainstream news organizations, if we're going to write something or post something about someone, we feel obligated to ask that person for a response, right, or at least that person's attorney and then wait to get a response from them. >> and often mainstream news organizations, the rules that they follow, the guidelines, the internal guidelines that they follow result in stories that are important stories that actually never really see the light of day. bill cosby, there are many, many mainstream journalists who knew about the allegations against bill cosby but he was a beloved celebrity and it was against their internal rules to mention these allegations. as a result, that story took a long time to get out. it end was only when gawker wrote about it in 2014 and actually brought it to light, said the nasty things that needed to be said for that story

to come to light. >> some people have talked about it -- and you're right, it wasn't a big story. but there is a difference between talking about bill cosby or discussing sex hogan's sex tape and infidelities and posting them on the air or internet. >> every story is different. >> you've changed the style of gawker. you said you're 80% nicer? >> 20%. >> so ask you this, nick. if you don't win on appeal, you said gawker can no longer go on, right? >> we're clearly going to win on appeal. the appeals court just unsealed a whole bunch of documents that were kept from the jury in this trial court and we're confident that the appeals court will find, as they have in the past, that this story was newsworthy. >> the caliber of lawyers that you have ain't cheap. can you sustain that over a year or so that it's going to take you to -- >> the appeals court process is actually keep it from going to trial. >> so you think you'll be fine? >> yeah. >> thank you, nick.

always good to see you. thank you for coming on. >> all right. >> we'll be right back. ♪ he has a sharp wit. a winning smile. and no chance of getting an athletic scholarship. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. ♪ [engine revs] ♪ ♪ [engine revving] the all-new audi a4 is here.

♪ i got the discounts dothat you need ♪l ♪ ♪ safe driver ♪ accident-free ♪ everybody put your flaps in the air for me ♪ ♪ go paperless, don't stress, girl ♪ ♪ i got the discounts that you need ♪ ♪ safe driver ♪ accident-free ♪ everybody put your flaps in the air for me ♪ i can't lip-synch in these conditions. ♪ savings ♪ oh, yeah

don't forget cnn's wisconsin gop town hall tomorrow. ted cruz, john kasich and donald trump take questions from voters in a primetime event moderated

by anderson cooper. tomorrow night beginning at 8:00 eastern. of course right here on cnn. that's it for us tonight. thanks for watching. i'll see you right back here tomorrow night. our live coverage continues now with isha sesay in los angeles. this is "cnn newsroom" live from los angeles. shots fired in washington. the capitol building locked down. new information about the gunman and his checkered past. hauls in the international terror dragnet. a man arrested at first thought to be the third bomber at the brussels airport and then freed. why the mistaken identity, and who is the man in white? plus, we're getting the first reactions from key u.s. allies to donald trump's surprising foreign policy ideas. hello and welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm isha sesay. "newsroom l.a." starts right now.