just when you think have you seen it all from donald trump, this is "cnn tonight," i'm don lemon. today donald trump told msnbc that abortion should be banned and he thinks women who have illegal abortions should be punished.

after that he put out a statement saying that doctors should be punished, not women. and after trump retweets side-by-side image of heidi cruz and melania trump. let's get to jim acosta live for us in wisconsin this evening. jim, blockbuster news on the trump campaigns. let's may mr. trump's remarks on abortion that started the fire storm today. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion as a principle, yes or no? >> the answer is there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yes. >> 10 cents, 10 years? >> i don't know. >> you have positions on everything else. >> it's a very complicated position. >> jim, what was the impact?

>> first of all, don, what we saw today was something we don't see today, it was a full reversal, he made a statement, backed away from it and a full reversal. chief among the people responding to what donald trump said today was hillary clinton. she knows these two may be going head to head later this fall. she knows there's a huge gender gap, high unfavorable ratings with women and she sought to exploit that, indicating to anderson cooper she plans to talk about this even more heading into the fall. >> the choice is really clear. the republicans all line up together. maybe they weren't quite as open about it as donald trump was earlier today, but they all have the same position. and if you make abortion a crime, you make it illegal, then you make women and doctors

criminals. >> now, on the republican side, ted cruz, john kasich, just about everybody republican was condemning donald trump for these original remarks he made on abortion, but ted cruz put out a statement essentially saying, wait a minute, donald trump does not speak for the anti-abortion forces movement, for the pro-life movement. he said, quote, once again donald trump has demonstrated he hasn't seriously thought through the issues and he say just about anything to get attention, on the important issue of the sanctity of life, what's far too often neglected is that being pro-life is not simply about the unborn children. four years ago when mitt romney

would commit a gaffe, it would underline that he had a difficult time relating to the common man. what donald trump east gaffes tend to do is underline the problem he has, which is he isn't necessarily well versed on all the issues. he stumbled. >> ted cruz is making a big play for women's votes in wisconsin. even held an event featuring his wife, his mother, carly fiorina. how much does donald trump's abortion flap help his opponent with this key demographic? >> it's a big problem with women voters here if wisconsin. keep in mind heading into the wisconsin primary, which is just a few days away, this is a state

that is very important when it comes to attracting conservative catholic voters. the catholic vote in wisconsin is critical, and donald trump, what he tried do, it sounded like he was trying to pander to some of those voters by saying this is how tough i am on the issue of abortion, just as the same way he's tougher as anyone else when it comes to illegal immigration, he wants to build a wall on the u.s./mexican border when it comes to abortion, he's talking about punishing women if abortion was ever made illegal. the problem is on the pro-life side of the equation, they're saying, no, they don't want to punish women either. he was getting it wrong on both sides of the spectrum. >> i want to put up this poll and ask you about it. there's a new poll by marquette university law school.

ted cruz leads the field by 10 points over donald trump with donald trump 9 points over john kasich. how will this affect the race if this poll holds? >> if ted cruz can peel away wisconsin and coming up after wisconsin is the colorado caucuses, ted cruz has tended to do very well in these caucuses. every time ted cruz can peel away one of these contests, it makes it more difficult for donald trump to get to that magic number of 1,237 delegates. you were talking about this in the buildup to the show. it's not only the abortion comments, it's the corey lewandowski incident, the wife wars we saw last week and the

violence at the rallies. it's whether the cumulative effect is starting to affect his numbers. ted cruz has certainly caught fire. it could be a change in the momentum of this race. we'll have to see how it all pans out on tuesday night. >> you mentioned corey lewandowski. that was the other big story we were mentioning. >> i am confident that neither president obama nor president bush would tolerate someone on their staff being accused of physically assaulting a reporter, lying about it and they blaming the victim. that is completely unacceptable behavior. >> you cover the white house every day. it's pretty unusual for the white house to comment on something like this, isn't it? >> it is. it might be less so as the weeks

and months move forward, don. that is because president obama plans to the surrogate in chief when it comes to this upcoming election battle. he has all but made it clear he wants hillary clinton to win this nomination. he hasn't said that definitively but he's made that pretty clear. it and hillary clinton may be taking on donald trump coming up in the fall. you're going to see the white house going after donald trump repeatedly and much more often than you're seeing now. you saw in the press conference, josh earnest didn't use the name donald trump. that seems to be sort of the white house approach. as we get closer to a general election campaign, president obama i think is itching to join this fight. he wants to help hillary clinton just as much as possible to make

sure she takes the white house. it think it's very clear at this point the white house is almost enjoying the prospect, looking forward to the prospect of taking on donald trump in the fall, don. >> thank you very much. appreciate that, sir. jim acosta. conservatives in an uproar all day today. glen beck told me trump is make it all up before he goes along. >> watch this. this is what gets it. you're watching him. he's saying are you going do it? he's looking up. he's thinking, thinking. yes. he has no idea. he's never thought of this before. he is winging this entire election. he doesn't mean what he says. he means it at the moment. let me think, ah, ah, yes. he's just making it up as he goes along. >> however you feel about abortion, that's your issue, right, who are we to judge. but is this -- isn't this against the pro-life movement's

ideology, it's about saving the life of a baby as opposed to punishing a woman. do you think he's thought about that? >> no, no, i don't think donald trump's thought about any of these things. he's said recently the reason he's made so many anti-women things is because, quote, he didn't think of running for president so he didn't think this way. he didn't think these things through. first of all, lie number one, he's been talking about running for president since likes 1988. he has opinion thinking about running for president. he just has put no actual thought into any of these. i don't take any of his policies as real at all. >> so what does this do for him in the general? does it give democrats room to gain even more ground when it comes to women voters? >> don, i don't think he's going

to be the candidate in the first place, but if he is the candidate, it's going to be the biggest blood bath of the gop of all time. mark my words. >> explain that. >> i believe that hillary clinton will run the board like reagan did with mondale. i think by the time donald trump gets to the general, he'll be so badly wounded and so -- i mean, look at his numbers on women. he already -- nobody's even started on that yet. >> 73% unfavorability. almost 75. >> his unfavorables are unlike anything we've ever seen at any time in history. >> so let's look into more numbers from marquette university law school. ted cruz leads donald trump by 10 points. that is a big jump from where he was in february. you are a cruz supporter. so what do you think is behind this jump? >> i think people maybe, maybe are waking up and they're seeing

what donald trump is all about, especially with lewandowski, that nightmare. if my wife called the police and the police came to the house and said i want him arrested for battery and here are the bruises to show how hard he grabbed me, i know i would be arrested and probably go to jail. it seems to me police know what battery looks like, we as politicians know what battery looks like but some politicians don't know what battery looks like. influential conservative women want donald trump to use

influential conservative women want donald trump to use his signature apprentice line on corey lewandowski, and that is you're fired. 16 women have called his behavior towards reporter michelle field inexcusable and unprofessional. i want to get your response to this whole abortion issue. what did you think when you heard donald trump call for women who receive abortions to be furnished?

you, bethany. >> as a pro-life women who has been pro-life for years, this is exactly the opposite of what we're supposed to say to women. i mean, obviously if a woman is faced with a choice it terminate a pregnancy, they're in a really uncomfortable situation. and this is sort of the last resort and to then sort of criminalize the situation that they're in to say this is a crime instead of you were sort of trapped in a situation that is really unfortunate. women should be supported. >> listen, he put out a statement and he did walk it back, he reversed himself, alycia, quickly. do you think donald trump really understands the issue now? >> no, donald trump doesn't understand the issue. he sounds like exactly what ted cruz accused him of being, a new

york liberal that is now trying to buy conservative votes and saying, look, i'm conservative now. he just became pro-life a couple of years ago by his own admittance in the first gop debate. he is not pro-life and he doesn't speak for pro-life americans. >> let's speak about corey lewandowski, donald trump's campaign manager. you both signed a letter along with 14 other pundits demanding he is to be fired. you say the press is to have an adversarial yet civil approach to those in or running for elected office. never is in this line of work is it acceptable to respond to reasonable and legitimate questioning with use of physical force. why did you get involved in this, bethany? >> as a female reporter, breitbart was very friendly. the response was i didn't know you were with breitbart, if he's willing to do that to someone who is the most friendly outlet possible to his campaign, who is he going to do that to next? "the washington post"? cnn? it's not just going to be an arm

grab. this is his test. it he can get away with man handling the press in this manner, there's no stopping him. >> do you think he embellished his story? donald trump said the video exonerates lewandowski. >> dictator donald wants us to believe what he says. i think there's three videotapes and an audiotape, a report from ben terris at the "washington post." no, no, don't believe the

jupiter police department and don't believe michelle fields, don't believe the eyewitnesses and don't believe the tapes. >> it is innocent till proven guilty, though. >> and honestly, my biggest problem with this is that the trump campaign has lied. they were caught in their lie and now they're lying again and they're trying to cover up the original lie. i don't think it's becoming of any presidential candidate, let alone the gop front-runner. >> let's take a listen to a clip from last night's town hall. >> i'll tell you what, you just take a look, you just take a look at what's going on. i stick up for people when they're right. would i love to have fired him. it would be much easier than talking about this all night. i'd rather talk about the issue. i stick up for people when they're unjustly accused. he's grabbing me, he walked in to stop it, she had a pen in her hand it, could have been a

knife. she should not have been doing that. and she didn't fall to the ground, she wasn't dragged to the ground and all of the things that she said, anderson. i stick up for people. i don't want to ruin somebody's life. >> why are you shaking your head, bethany? >> he sounds like a domestic abuser. she didn't fall to the ground, she wasn't that badly hurt, she had a pen in her hand. she was vetted by the secret service. they know who she is. now she wasn't that hurt? you hear these excuses from domestic abusers. she just has a black eye, it wasn't like i broke her arm. this is how he treats women. this is how serious he considers battery. >> i don't want to put words in

your mouth, bethany. is he blaming the victim? >> absolutely. not only is he blaming the victim, he's destroying her career. how often have we had someone talk about this on a national scale like this and read the police report and lie about it. it's disturbing to me this guy is now our front-runner and people on the media, on the left, have been able to use the caricature they've been wrongly referring to as conservatives and refer to donald trump now. >> corey lewandowski's attorney spoke with anderson cooper. let's listen. >> to me, it appear he's is stopping her or redirecting her from getting closer to mr. trump. mr. trump tweeted a picture of a still photo of the video where he is wincing away from this woman who is trying to grab his

arm. at that very moment up see corey who is coming in between him and miss fields. >> so he is making the case that he is just protecting his candidate. that's not legitimate to you. >> is he the secret service? who appointed him the muscle of the trump campaign? >> apparently we should give him a medal of honor and he is more brave than the incredible generation that stormed the beaches of normandy. if the secret service think that she was a threat and they didn't do anything about it, then we need a new detail on donald trump stat because he is at risk. >> i want to bring in age. delgado, a conservative kol -- columnist. what do you think about what these women said in. >> i can't believe what i'm hearing. i heard the term domestic abuser.

one of them said they knew who michelle fields was because she covered the trump beat for breitbart. that's completely wrong. the regular reporter was sick that day so they sent michelle. please know your fact, before they chime in. they saw an aggressive woman coming up to mr. trump, touching his arm. the secret service stated she touched him twice and the secret service warned him twice. you see he flinches. this was a defensive move on his part and corey comes in and steps in the situation to get between them. how on earth is this even an issue? this is an aggressive reporter who didn't do her job, failed to ask questions at the conference

like she was supposed to. it disgusting to hear someone use the term domestic abuser. i'm angry to even hear that, as a woman and most of all as a conservative. >> i think you for coming in, and all three of you. >> is this a turning point in donald trump's campaign?

there is less than a week until the wisconsin primary and a new poll shows ted cruz leading in wisconsin. i want to bring in curt mardella. and reporter michelle fields. also joining me, conservative columnist a.j.delg matt lewis and bob cusack, ado is back with me. editor in chief of thehill.com. is this all strengthening the never trump movement as we head into wisconsin next week?

>> yeah, i think so. i mean, ted cruz doing well in the recent wisconsin poll that came out today and if you look at trump, he's had a rough week. all candidates are going to have rough weeks. he's been winning the republican basically side for more than eight months. with you he had been doing well on the abortion question as far as just saying, hey, listen, i'm just like ronald reagan, i'm pro-life but with exception. today he took heat from both the left and the right and that does not help him going into wisconsin. now, cruz has to win wisconsin, but he's looking pretty good right now.

>> matt, hillary clinton called into "ac360" earlier tonight. here as how she reacted. >> this is about whether abortion is legal and whether women make our own health care choices. it's very clear that donald trump wants to repeal that fundamental right, just like all the other republican candidates, and when he was asked whether women should be punished, he said yes. and that is absolutely unacceptable. it is outrageous. no other republican candidate really took on donald trump because they fundamentally agree with him and the issues that he is hitting upon, and i think this latest incident demonstrates that. >> that's a pretty big pronouncement, matt. is secretary clinton right? do other candidates fundamentally agree with trump? or is it that they're afraid or -- is she right? >> no, she's wrong but she's clever. she demagoguing this issue because donald trump has opened up the door for her to do this and to paint all republicans, all conservatives all pro-lifers as people who basically want to declare war on women. so trump fell into the trap. i think who doesn't know the issue that well. speak of traps, pro-lifers have run the traps.

they know how you have to frame the issue very precisely and that will are political compromises that have to be made. >> matt, let me jump in. she's talking not just about framing the issues but fundamental beliefs. is she wrong on the belief or wrong on the framing? >> she's wrong but you're right, don, she had an agenda. twice in the clip she said this isn't just trump, this is wrong. the pro-life consensus is that women should not be criminalized and should not be punished for having an abortion, the abortion doctor would be penalized. >> i want to bring a.j. in. did donald trump screw up today? >> i think he spoke inartfully.

when you're constantly saying that, it would be unnatural to say it should be illegal but there should be no punishment. usually things illegal usually have a punishment. i think it's a trick he walked into. i call it a gaffe. >> get your point do you think he has firm gasp on the issues of the pro-life movement? >> absolutely he does. donald trump is also probably the most sensible when it comes to planned parenthood beep should keep in mind while he's very much a pro-lifer, he's won women over with his position that planned parenthood does a lot of good things, pap smears, birth control, what have you, they might be pro-life but they also support what planned parenthood does that isn't abortion related. that gets lost sometimes. >> does donald trump have a

ceiling? it's just higher than a lot of people initially thought his ceiling? >> i think donald had an unnatural buffer based on his celebrity. the real donald trump is someone who speaks off the mind is it is the personification of what so many republicans are so concerned about, they will spend the next six months answering to the statements that donald trump makes and there are no good answers when you save something as incendiary and ridiculous as mothers, women would be punished for daring to have an abortion, something that's so personal, a decision that no one should take lightly and they have to worry that the would-be president of the united states wants to find a which to outlaw a practice

that's lawful right now and worry this is going to be illegal, they're going to be punished for it, worry about law enforcement. it's hilarious that donald trump would talk about law enforcement in any way. law enforcement in florida made the decision that his campaign manager perpetrated a crime yet he can't be bothered with the facts. >> a.j., you're disagreeing. >> did kurt just say that abortion is legal now? could you repeat that? >> roe v. wade is the law of the land. >> your comments make no sense. true pro-lifers are saying that the woman committed murder, yes or no. and then you have kurt and matt saying you should be clever, a trickster to go on national tv. >> roe v. wade is the law of the land. that is the law of the land period. >> not all abortions are legal.

>> what's your point? roe v. wade is not the law of the land? >> no, of course it is. some abortions are not legal. i cannot go and have a seventh month abortion right now. >> i don't think that's what kurt was saying. he's saying abortion in general -- >> yes, he was. >> i don't even know what that has to do with anybody. >> i don't either. matt, i have to go to break. what did you want to say? >> i want to say real quick people who are strong pro-lifers don't care about punishing the woman. they care about defend being the life of the unborn and protecting the life of the unborn and they view women as victims as well. and so this -- >> who commit murder. you say who commit murder. >> let him finish, a.j. >> this is a world view that wants to preserve unborn life. >> is corporate america having second thoughts about sponsoring

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and we're back. kurt bardella, a.j. i want to play you something. >> can you tell the middle east we're not using a nuclear weapon? >> i would never take any of my cards off the table. >> how about europe? >> i'm not taking it off the table. >> you might use it in europe? >> no, i don't think so.

>> i'm just saying -- >> i'm not taking cards off the table. i'm not using new mexico. the sane people hear you are and the insane people are not affected by your threats. >> i think they're more affected than you might think. >> okay. your call. >> bob, your response first. >> listen, i think that donald trump going forward, the republican party is going to be picking a nominee over the next four months. i think what republicans are looking for are not arrests of campaign managers, not abortion controversies, they're not nuclear weapons stuff that can attract attention. so i think that they're looking for a little bit more boring. donald trump suggested he's going to be more presidential. i think he's got to be basically more presidential, a little more boring over the next several months because this is the crunch time, this is when the republican party is picking a nominee and he's had a bit of a

rough stretch. he's still got a big advantage in the delegates but he's got to close this deal and he's had a rough run this week. no doubt about it. >> you guys keep saying he's had a rough stretch, it's been a bad couple weeks or so for donald trump, yet he's saying it's great. his surrogates come on and say the "new york times" interview said he's great, it was just a little kerfuffle, he's misspoke. does he realize he's had a bad week, matt? >> i don't know. just in the past 24 hours he has reversed himself on numerous issues. he talked to the "new york times" about how he wants -- he's okay with japan going nuclear but last night he said he doesn't want nuclear proliferation. last night he said that one of the most important -- of the three most important things the federal government can be doing, health care and education are two of the most important things the federal government can be doing.

he later said the federal government shouldn't be involved in health care or education, those are state issues. and later, the abortion issue, he completely reversed himself on it. this is a guy who in 24 hours has changed his position on numerous issues. >> "new york times" is reporting that corporations are reassessing how they're going to participate in the republican convention, if at all, particularly in donald trump snags the nomination. big businesses not supporting republicans. do you see an irony, bob cusack? >> i think this actually helps donald trump. this is what a lot of the republican electorate, they're very frustrated that big business, the lobbyists have been controlling the party. he goes after the pharmaceutical industries, goes after hmos. this is something that he says

the iraq war was a disaster and a mistake by george w. bush. so i think in this situation, there are corporations who doesn't like how unpredictable trump is. that helps his populous allure. >> the article says they have largely avoided the delicate choice between possibly offending mr. trump's passionate followers by distancing themselves from him or angering the equally vocal constituencies opposed to his candidacy. >> look what happened to nbc, they had this big falling out with him and then a few months later he's on snl. if they do so, it's up to them. i don't think it's a good business choice or smart p.r. move.

up to them. >> there is pressure being put on companies to pull out. should they? >> whether or not you want to be on the right side or wrong side of history, whether or not you're comfortable putting your support in any name, next to a person who says incendiary things. do you want to be associated with that or not? you're going to see a mobilization of all kind of groups, pushing every sponsor of the republican national convention saying do you condone the things that donald trump has says, do you condone what he's doing and if you don't, you are need to pull your money out. >> thank you. i appreciate it. when we come back, one of the biggest figures of the 80s, are the legendary golden girl betty white.

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sitting down with the actress that created one of the decade's most unforgettable characters. joining me now, the incomparable betty white. i'm sure that's something a lot of people have used -- >> they use a lot of adjectives. >> are you used to these cameras? >> first of all, with the lighting, do you notice them or -- >> no, you can't see them at all. >> i mean do you notice them or do you feel at home in front of the camera? >> well, i started out five, six days a week. they become a good friend the. so you're not aware of them. but when you do glance at them, you think of them as just a friend. you don't realize there are a couple of people behind them. >> actual friends back there. you're younger than me.

you're 94 years old -- young. >> yes, 94 and a quarter. >> miss white, i see you everywhere. >> miss white? oh, boy. >> may i call you betty? >> yes, you are may call me betty. >> thank you. i see you late night, i see you early in the morning, i see you everywhere. >> are you trying to tell me you're sick of me? >> no, i'm not sick of you. i wonder where you get the energy. i love watching you. >> it's just love, it's a feeling that's so great. you're talking to friends who have been loyal to you for 90 years and i just enjoy it. >> i like your sense of humor. you've been known to use naughty words. >> not naughty words. i just like to use a sexual sense of humor. >> she tried to come into the changing room with me.

>> i did. he locked the door the. >> so you're here to talk to us about our series on cnn can called "the 80s." >> i don't remember the 80s. that was before my time. i was just a kid. >> "the golden girls," when i say that, what comes to your head? >> one of the happiest periods of my life. it was the happiest time to not only work with those wonderful broads, but to get to know them. it just -- we wouldn't even have to say anything to each other. something would happen, we'd be out here talking with the camera and something would happen and we'd just take a look and it would crack us all up. it didn't take anything to break us up. >> was that your favorite part of the 80s doing that show? did you have a favorite time of the 1980s? >> robert redford comes to mind.

with you then robert redford always comes to mind. >> was that your crush? i know that your husband was the love of your life but was robert redford your crush in. >> what do you mean was? >> he still is? oh, god, yes. but don't tell him. i don't want to tell anybody. >> he doesn't know? no, no. well, maybe. >> let's get back to "the golden girls ". that show really broke so many barriers. you talked about gay rights, you talked about hiv, you talked about all sorts of things. you broke barriers on that show. did you realize during that time you were breaking barriers in the culture? >> i had been in television since the very beginning so i was aware that we were going into new territory, let's say. but thanks to our team of writers and producers, they handled it -- they didn't handle it like, hey, hey, let's talk about this. they tried to talk about it as a

fact of life, which it is. and i found that kind of refreshing. >> you think it was easier or maybe more palatable coming from these ladies rather than, you know, a bunch of guys sitting around talking about these issues? >> it could very well be. that's a good point. it probably could. but they didn't know what kind of ladies we were. >> do you think that that role sort of made a difference for women, especially older women in hollywood in the 80s? because it was tough for women of a certain age to get roles. and there you are, these broads of a certain age, if you don't mind me saying that, doing it to death, i mean winning awards, breaking barriers and there you

are on television every single week. >> well, i think it was kind of ground breaking at that time, but it was kind of painless. we didn't lay it out like, look, look, we're women and stuff. we just were. >> but you were single women, widowed women on your own. >> and not impervious to romance and all kinds of things, but i think the writers did a wonderful job of making women of that age not quite as dull as everybody thinks they are. >> betty white, what keeps you ticking? what keeps you going? >> oh, i'm the luckiest old broad on two feet. the fact that i'm still able to be in the business i love, meet nice people, it's such a privilege. that's what keeps you going and keep you loving it. >> and i'm lucky to have met you and to have interviewed you. thank you so much. is there thank you so much and welcome home.

now you get some rest. >> i am. i'm going to go. and a cocktail. you can come have one with me. >> oh, well, let's -- we'll talk. >> all right. >> betty white, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> boy, we needed her positivity after all the negative stuff we have discussed this evening. cnn's original series "the eighties" premieres tomorrow night. it's called race on television, that's the first one. 9:00 eastern here on cnn. we will be right back. thank you, betty white! . .

that's it for us. thanks for watching. "early start" begins now. donald trump's new controversy saying if abortion becomes illegal, women who get them should be punished. later recan'ting the statement. in fact, three positions on abortion in 12 hours, but this morning, taking condemnation from both sides of the aisle. good morning. welcome to "early start." i'm christine romans. >> i'm boris sanchez. >> facing another day of putting out fires. he took three different positions on abortion in the space of