-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com i'm michael smerconish. i think we just reached a turning point for donald trump and the entire 2016 race. this altercation between trump's campaign manager and a reporter kicked off a bad week for the gop front-runner, and tuesday the wisconsin primary could be trump's waterloo as he is plummeting in the polls. john kasich is here to talk about his battle to endure until the convention. while bernie sanders continues his surge leading in wisconsin and landing a record 44 million in donations in march.

plus, a big surprise issue of 2016, the national heroin epidemic. i'll talk to one young mayor about his city's controversial plan to create legal injection sites. first, i have often predicted the political demise of donald trump. this time i might be right. he just ended political hell week. his campaign manager was arrested for misdemeanor battery. he flip-flopped on abortion, said some controversial things about nukes. now wisconsin votes on tuesday which polls have him trailing ted cruz by ten points. but most problematic for trump, among women his disapproval is abysmal, a cnn poll recently found that 73% of women disapprove of the gop fro front-runn front-runner. after wisconsin the next big prizes are new york on april 19 and pennsylvania on april 26. yes, recent polls show trump leading his home state by a

large margin but in a close race with john kasich in pennsylvania and here's the unpleasant truth for trump. both states have rules that put power in the hands of the party, which is not a good thing for mr. trump. in new york, a change last year by the republican state committee allows the party, not the candidates, to select delegates. the new process is intended to reward longtime party loyalists who might not be trump supporters. and in pennsylvania, most delegates are elected by voters without any indication of who they support with no requirement that they follow the will of the electorate. in other words, at a time when donald trump was hoping to seal the deal, he has instead hit a rough patch and is about to enter a phase where the gop establishment could further diminish his prospects if he doesn't arrive in cleveland with the 1237 delegates required, i don't think he leaves town with the nomination, which is why tuesday is such an important vote. joining me now is the host of

"cnn's inside politics," john king. john, what happens if donald trump loses wis ws? wisconsin? >> well, that would give the stop trump forces a big win because wisconsin stands alone. right now, donald trump clearly in first place, 739 delegates. ted cruz a distant second at 460. rubio still third. kasich in the race and he's fourth right now. so let's just look at wisconsin. donald trump spending the weekend there maybe can turn the tide and get the state back. if he does that, the stop trump movement will lose steam because so much time and money has been spent out there. let's assume -- we have two polls showing ted cruz with a ten-point lead. let's assume that's correct. if you win statewide by ten points, you not only get statewide delegates but probably most of the congressional districts. let's assume cruz wins them all, 42 maybe 36 or 30 something. let's assume for the sake of the argument that cruz gets most of them. and maybe kasich gets the rest. we'll give them all to cruz. what happens? trump stays static and cruz starts to inch up. does that mean trump is done?

no. but it means he's suffered a big loss in a big midwestern battleground and it will change the conversation, michael, as we head to what donald trump just like hillary clinton hopes is his fire wall, home in new york. >> but it doesn't sound like you're saying, hey, he can't get to 1237 if he loses wisconsin. >> no, but it would be a huge challenge. let's assume he gets shut out in wisconsin. or gets a handful of delegates. then we move on to new york. here is one scenario. the polls, there have been a couple but one poll out that shows donald trump above 50%. we'll see if we get newer polling. we'll see it a fed cruz victory in wisconsin changes that. but if trump stays above 50% in new york, that would be all 95 of the delegates in new york and that would make the pain of wisconsin go away a little quicker. because if donald trump, even if he's shut out in wisconsin, if he wins them all in new york, then he's out here again, he's at 834. then he's on his way. if he gets that he needs 53% of the remaining delegates. is that easy to do? absolutely not. is it conceivable? it is.

you have big states coming. and winner takes all states. if donald trump can get them all in new york, it would make the pain of wisconsin go away but that's the big question. let me give you another scenario. let's assume cruz wins wisconsin and out of that he gets momentum and trump falls under 50% in new york. let's say trump wins but with only 45%. then he's splitting the delegates. maybe john kasich comes in second and ted cruz comes in theb third but they take away at least halve of the delegates. that's where it gets fascinating because then trump is still in the lead. but if he doesn't get all 95, if he splits them, instead of 53%, now he would need 60% of the remaining delegates and yes, doable but difficult. and the stop trump movement if they keep him from winner take all in new york and wisconsin, they think they've got him. they think if that happens, they are going to an open convention. >> i keep saying this, but it really sounds as if we're about to enter the most fascinating part of the entire race. john, thank you. and tomorrow morning a special one-hour edition of "inside

politics." we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> now, the wisconsin primary looms large for my next guest, ohio governor john kasich. he needs to do well one. on one hand, polls have him the only of the three gop candidates beating hillary clinton. but he's also won only one state, and some are saying he actually helps trump by staying in the race. others including carl rove are suggesting that the convention may need to nominate an altogether new candidate. john kasich joins me now. is this the week that the trump campaign jumped the shark? >> well, there's no way i'm going to predict that. i just know that there were things said this week, not just the abortion but using nuclear weapons in europe and loose talk about it in the middle east and withdrawing from nato, these are things that show that mr. trump is unprepared. i do understand the trump voters' concerns about their economic future and their children's.

>> he caught a lot of flak for what he said about abortion and he flip-flopped. but wasn't he correct in the first round? in other words, if a person -- i'll take him at face value. >> no. >> why not? >> no, i don't -- i don't. i don't agree with that. i don't think it's appropriate. >> you believe roe versus wade, correct me if i'm wrong, should not be . >> michael, i know. yeah, i told you what i think about it. i think it was inappropriate, period end of story. let's move on. >> i'll move on but you got to give me one more crack at this because i want to hear the answer. if abortion should be illegal, shouldn't it follow that there's punishment for people involved in that process? >> well, look, pro-life and the pro-choice movement it's sad that's where you look at clinics or whatever. but you don't lay this on women. it's a tough enough situation for them, end of story. >> governor, callers to my radio program when they talk about john kasich, your ears ought to ring. they use words like substance, they use words like civility.

but then they say, how is he going to win? what's the answer to that question? >> well, look, we're going to go to an open convention. there's no question. i mean, i don't have -- i can't win enough to get to the convention with enough delegates and neither can cruz. he would have to win 90% of the remaining delegates and donald trump would have to win probably better than 60% and as you know, he's never got anywhere close to that. so we're going to go to a convention and when we go, there will be two things that will be asked. number one, who can win in the fall? and i'm the only candidate that consistently beats hillary clinton in the fall. and secondly, michael, delegates take this seriously. they feel the big decisions and they ask, who has the record? who has the accomplishments? and who can be president? >> i don't think trump can get 1237, therefore, this gets decided in cleveland. that is what john kasich believes.

>> yeah, i do. people that think delegate will walk out and this is an ugly process, they don't understand the process. who will the delegates be? they'll be electors or former legislators or people who have worked in the vineyards for the republican party for a long time. we'll be fine in cleveland. our kids will get an education about how does somebody get elected president? how does the whole system work? and for those of us who have wanted better civic education for our kids, they're about to get it. >> governor, do you believe fairness demands it be one of you? if no one arrives in cleveland, should it be one of the three of you who leaves with the nomination? >> well, since i'm one of the three, i say yes. but ultimately, that's a choice the delegates will make. >> veteran gop dirty trickster roger stone, i'm sure you remember roger said in "gq" when john kasich said he has no interest in being vice president that is a declaration of

interest. you would say what? >> i'm not going to be anybody's vice president, michael, don't worry about it. >> so if ted cruz should call and say, hey, gov, let's put it together and take down trump? >> michael, michael, michael. i'm running for president. i'm not going to be anybody's vice president. i will go back. i will finish my term as governor. and at that point i'llnter the private sector and be a citizen so i can then complain about all the politicians. >> all right, governor. >> i just made the cameraman laugh. >> governor, good to see you and best of luck. >> thank you, michael. god bless you and appreciate being with you. >> thanks for saying that. thank you very much. so governor kasich just said that he's got faith in the delegates because they tend to be, what did he say, long-term party loyalists who take their duties seriously. so meet a republican national committeewoman and gop delegate and someone who was a delegate four years ago and hopes to be

again. dianna orric is a trump supporter from the state of nevada. tom ellis is runtion to be a delegate in my home state of pennsylvania. diana, you just heard john kasich say and i agree with this that donald trump is not getting to 1237 before cleveland. first, do you agree with that? and second, do you see any scenario where on a second ballot, third ballot, fourth ballot trump can close the deal? >> i think donald trump could probably close the deal. it's a very realistic possibility that he won't have the 1237 going into the convention. but that's okay. >> okay, but you are one of 112 committee people for the rnc. you're the only one whose for donald trump and i'm unaware of a single state chairperson who's for trump.

that doesn't bode well for him that he's going to have support gathered around him at the convention. >> well, a lot of the state party chairs would prefer to remaineutral going into the convention, and that's done for very good reasons. you know, we have several kachbd dat that's are running, and i'm just the kind of person who likes to let people know where i stand, and i'm proud to be endorsing donald trump for 2016. >> tom, you were a delegate four years ago. you are running for delegate right now in my home county of montgomery county, p.a., which is a swing area. and i explained briefly we have a very unusual system in pennsylvania where you could be elected delegate as you were in the past but not be bound by the vote in your own county. how would you approach your responsibility? >> well, first of all, welcome back to the republican party, michael. we're glad to have you back. >> if only for a short time. if only for a day. >> yeah, but i think we need to have people that can make change

from within. so i'm glad to have you back, and we miss you on the radio in philadelphia. pennsylvania as you said is a different kind of state, and people need to know when they go to vote in pennsylvania there's a beauty contest for president but then they're voting for delegates. and the delegates even on the first ballot aren't committed to support whoever wins the general. >> so what would you do? >> i've already told people that i will support whoever wins my congressional district, the 13th congressional district, which is montgomery county in philadelphia because i don't want them to waste their vote. they need to know when they go out to vote that their vote counts, that i'll support whoever that they want on the first ballot. now, we get to the second ballot, then we get gore vidal, we then you don't know what happens.

>> this is a perfect lab experiment for the trump campaign. let's assume donald trump wins his county. you just heard him say he would feel obligated to support donald trump on the first ballot but thereafter he's looking for a winner. and it's john kasich who runs strongest against hillary clinton. again, that doesn't bode well for trump leaving cleveland with the nomination. >> it all depends who you talk to and who you think is going to be the strongest candidate against hillary clinton. you know, donald trump, his strong point is that he draws popularity and strength from all political persuasions, not just the republican party. we have democrats, independents who have not only switched parties to vote for trump in the caucuses and the primaries, but a lot of those same party people are staying until the party planning on vote willinging for

donald trump in the general election. so to me it's a moot point. >> you heard me say at the outset both of you that i suspect donald trump has just jumped the shark and on my website i have this poll question where more than 1,000 people have already voted. 62 of them agreeing with me, tom ellis. you're a seasoned political hand. do you think this past week was a milestone for donald trump? >> i think it hurt him, but i'm not 100% sure. he's come back -- i thought he was finished when he went after john mccain and said he wasn't a hero. >> me, too. >> and you said it. he's following the seinfeld mode. go opposite, and he's winning. i'm not sure that's going to be the case. i said to one of your producers and you know frank rizzo, you used to work with him. he polled always lower than people thought he was going to get, and he got a lot more votes because a lot of people said they weren't going to vote for him and ended up doing so.

i was with my fiancee in london on new year's eve, a guy there very well-to-do said, you know, we tell people we're against donald trump and we don't believe what he says, but actually we do. so, you know, i've discounted donald trump a number of times. i originally was with jeb bush, then chris christie. now i'm waiting to see. there is a lot of people i know i didn't suspect would be for donald trump. so i would never count him out. it's the beer test that you've talked about. who do you want to have a beer with? and i think of all the candidates out there, the two democrats nobody wants to go have a drink with. >> listen to me. hey, i would love to have a couple of pops with donald trump. but it doesn't mean i'm going to be voting for him. dianna, final question for you. >> he'll pay. >> here is a scenario i see. he doesn't get to 1237. now you've got a convention full of individuals like tom who've paid their dues to the party.

that get together, they say, trump has got a negative approval of 73% by women. he can't beat hillary. we've got to go to somebody else. dianna, respond to that scenario. >> well, if that's a scenario, i don't buy into it because 73% disapproval by women, i don't know who they're talking to. but the rallies that i've gone to for donald trump are loaded with women. and as far as the issues, i think donald trump could do very well against hillary clinton with her corrupt background. but, anyway, if it's a brokered convention, it's going to be very interesting and the convention is all about the delegates deciding who the nominee is going to be. >> it is. it is. >> let's go for it. >> you will both be there. thank you so much for being here. i appreciate your time. >> michael? >> real quick. >> you never know,

pennsylvania's favorite son tom ridge and i'm a penn guy, but go villanova this weekend. >> thank you for that as well. if the polls are right, both party front-runners hillary clinton and donald trump will lose on tuesday in wisconsin's primary. is the badger state out of touch or a sign of what's to come? i'll talk with a local conservative, a moderate, and progressive all from wisconsin. and tweet me @smerconish. here are a couple that have already come in. courtyard, the official hotel of the nfl, and i want to remind you that no one's the same without the game. take @youwishcommish8 for instance. he writes, "as commissioner of my fantasy league, i'm thinking about moving the draft up... to next week. too early?" commish, the season is a ways out. months in fact. no rosters are set,

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wisconsin's primary tuesday is crucial for both parties and if the polls are to be believed, both of the front-runners are losing.

states in a row and in the month of march alone raised $44 million leads hillary clinton in wisconsin 48-43 in the latest fox business. poll on the republican side, cruz 44% and trump 32% and kasich 19%. part of the upheaval on the republican side has been due to local wisconsin radio hosts and newspapers who seem to be determined to make the state a watershed in the stop trump movement. joing me now two radio hosts and jerry baiter, a conservative at green bay's wtaq. mitch hank is a moderate centrist at the mike in madison. and we have john nichols, a progressive associate professor of capital times and also writes for "the nation." mitch, let me begin with you. if the polls are to be believed, then the two national front-runners are going to lose in wisconsin. you heard me say perhaps at the outset, is wisconsin a sign of what's to come or an outlier?

>> it could be an outlier. but when trump said he'll go after ted cruz's wife and spill the beans. i'm a talk show host and i winced. imagine how women felt about that. he's losing women. and of course i think votes are coming from rubio and carson going to cruz. the talk show host in milwaukee, the governor, governor walker, the conservative coalition has found a home in ted cruz. that won't be the case in new york where the people with new york values may reject cruz. >> john, are donald trump and bernie sanders competing for the same votes and because of wisconsin's open system at odds with one another because someone voting for bernie perhaps voting for donald and vice versa. >> well, let's be clear from the start that donald trump and bernie sanders are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum. so people shouldn't see the

possibility that you scope out as some sort of ideological response per se. but because wisconsin has such an open primary and because wisconsin has been so incredibly battered by de-industrialize aigsz, trade policies that have not been good for a state that's see a gm plant a clihrysler pla, plants all over the state close. in some of those towns, could you have a situation where somebody might say i'm going to vote for some real alternative here and especially for somebody that talks about trade might vet vote for bernie sanders on one side and might vote for donald trump on the other? yes, i do think that possibility does exist in some towns. >> so jerry baiter, it means therefore that in wisconsin donald trump ought to be, this will sound so odd, rooting for hillary clinton. >> well, yeah, i suppose you could say that. you know, i think what you -- you know, you asked earlier, michael, is wisconsin an

outlier. i think in terms of conservative talk radio, you know, we don't parrot the national guys and that's why donald trump ran into what he did here in wisconsin. i think in terms of going forward, wisconsin provides the opportunity to take the mask off the charade off the sharl aton so what happens here in wisconsin might be the beginning of the end for donald trump and we'll find out. >> jerry, let me show you and the other panelist some numbers. i want to compare february to march and take a look at the growth of ted cruz. so initially, this is february now, from marquette, you have trump at 30%, rubio at 20%, cruz only at 19%, kasich at 8%. fast-forward one month. interestingly, trump is still at 30%. but cruz hasúdoubled. do you attribute that, jerry, to the strength of the talk radio message against donald trump? and, if so, what's the beef that you all have with trump? >> yes, i do.

and obviously the thinning of the field had a lot to do with that. but that 30% does tend to be his ceiling. the beef with donald trump is he's not real. let me give you a specific example of this. here is why he stumbled so horribly with the abortion issue this week. he's not pro-life. he has no idea what the pro-life answer should be. he's very much pro abortion rights. in his mind, gee, what's the caricature? what have i been told by pro-lifers? and it was that extreme caricature that we want to put women in chains that have an abortion. that's donald trump issue after issue after issue. he is trying to figure out what a conservative should sound like that's why he blows in the wind and that's why there is no substance there. that's our beef with him, michael. besides his poorish, childish playground behavior, he's not a conservative. >> mitch, i want to show you something politico wrote about another wisconsin radio host, charlie sykes.

if we can put that up on the screen. here's what he said in part. we bear some responsibility because we beat on the mainstream media for so long, and now there are no credible sources anymore. that jumped off the page at me. i said to myself, maybe all of the lamb basting of the so-called mainstream media lessened the credibility of those outlets that would otherwise right now be vetting donald trump. what do you make of that thought? >> we've had a la carte media for a long time. conservative stations and networks or papers ever since ross perot was on larry king, we've moved that way, phil donahue had them on his show. we've gone that way for a long time. no surprise. a lot of it is, can we don't have 17 candidates anymore. the math works against trump. carson and rubio people are going to cruz plus he's hurting himself with women. i think you can analyze this case by case. new york would be a different story.

we're not so doomsayers. the gloom and doom, we get to new york. trump has to fight hard this weekend to stave off kasich because kasich may have a path to creep up a little bit. i think with some republican women and moderates, he has tommy thompson the former governor and the former madison republican congressman and people that i call the polite republicans they want an alternative to the mud wrestling tandem. >> john, final question for you. 18,000 people showed up in the bronx in new york for bernie sanders this week and as we've already explained he's leading thus far against secretary clinton in your home state. all those folks coming out, all those folks giving the $44 million in this past month and who will vote for him on tuesday, they must believe that, despite all the media analysis of the delegate count, there's still a path for bernie. what is it? >> well, i think that wisconsin is a critical part of that. that's what obviously the sanders campaign has said from the start.

one thing to understand is that, as you talk about both of these campaigns, on the republican side and democratic side, you've obviously got your delegate map up front. but also have your momentum map. and i think that's an important thing to think about. obviously, if ted cruz wins big in wisconsin, if possibly john kasich comes in second in wisconsin or at least beats trump in a number of congressional districts, that gives both of them momentum map even though donald trump will still have the delegate advantage. similarly, if sanders wins big in wisconsin, has a really solid win, then he'll have some of that momentum math going on to new york. the key in all this is for these candidates who are relying on what i call momentum math, they have to keep winning, and that of course is the bigger challenge. >> i think that's a good insight. i agree with you. gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. it's now going to get even more interesting. jerry baiter, mitch hank and john nickels, thank you.

remember, keep tweeting me @smerconish with your thoughts. i'll read some later in the program. just ahead, heroin addiction has been an important topic on the campaign trail. i will talk to a mayor of one hard-hit theory ready to try a radical fix, legal injection sites. and will the criminal charges filed against donald trump's campaign manager for this altercation with a reporter stick or be dismissed? we have over 15,000 activities that you can book on our app to make sure your little animal, enjoys her first trip to the kingdom. expedia, technology connecting you to what matters. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped

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donald trump's campaign manager corey lewandowski is facing a misdemeanor battery charge in florida, and by now everybody has seen the video of the incident of lewandowski

grabbing reporter michelle fields as she tried to ask mr. trump a question. still, the tape has become a republican war shock test. people see in it what they want to see. but how is it going to play in court? and how might the actions be defended? joining me two sharp legal minds, criminal defense attorneys mark o'mara and danny sa value savalas. let's slow mo it. as we do, explain the elements for this type of charge. roll the tape. >> okay, remember, michael, we're looking for an intentional, part one, part two is the touching and part three that it was nonconsensual. you see her jerk back, there you go. you don't see his hand, i don't see his hand on her body, but one might reasonably infer she was grabbed because she suddenly jerks back. but under the statute and in most states the standard for criminal battery, simple assault, whatever it's call in your particular state is a very low threshold.

you need that intentional, the touching and the absence of consent. that's the black letter law, michael. now let's take a step into the practical world of criminal defense. would most police detectives in your town be interested or prosecutors be interested in wasting judicial resources on a case like this? it really depends on the individual law enforcement unit. >> well, mark o'mara, i hear danny say that intentional is a required element here. what's the alternative, that he insitinctively or reflexively hd that kind of reaction? >> well, it's not just the intentional act itself, he obviously touched her on the arm. what we have to look at is what's called in our business the mens rea. what is the criminal intent? so when i push past you to get on a subway car, that is not a crime under any set of circumstances. so what he's going to say, what

i would say as the criminal defense attorney is, look, i was reacting to the moment. it was a reporter trying to say something to my candidate, my boss who we were trying to get out of there. no criminal intend towards her. as a matter of fact, if you look at his face right afterwards, look at the second, half a second after the supposed batly and no anger, no animosity. he's literally moved her out of the way and moved on in what he was doing, trying to get mr. trump out of there. this would never be prosecuted if this was on a subway platform or a baseball game. it's only a subject of attention because of the absurdity of what we're in because of the political scene today. >> you guys are so good, it's why i carry each of your phone numbers in my wallet in case i get jammed up. but danny, isn't the response from the prosecution going to be, take a look several frames thereafter where mr. lewandowski continues walking and catches up to donald trump. if he really believed that she was a threat, he would have

stayed and neutralized that threat. isn't that going to harm him? >> i'm going to put on my defense hat for a second and the way that i anticipate them defending this is using something the great mark o'mara is very familiar with, is florida law on defense and self-defense and defense of others. and it only requires that you reasonably perceive some application of force and that you used the amount of force reasonably necessary. in essence, you're meeting force with commensurate force. you never want to answer somebody's fist with a ba zuk ka. so the idea is if he perceives her about to touch mr. trump, then perhaps lewandowski saw himself as using reasonable force to counter the perceived force. that may be what we see in terms of self-defense or defense of others. >> mark o'mara, do you agree there's a zimmermann aspect of this incident? >> here is the problem with that. if you're going to use self-defense and defense of others, you have to acknowledge

the actnd the and the intentionality of the act. so lewandowski would have to go in and say, oh, i absolutely did that. i grabbed her by the arm and threw her out of the way and did whatever i needed to do to defend mr. trump. very dangerous ground to be on. i think i would sit back and say, look, this is a virtual scum in this arena. this is what we do. we're trying to get trump out of there. she's throwing out another question like everybody else and i wanted to get her out of the way, get mr. trump out of the venue. i would sit back and focus on the lack of criminal intent to begin with and simply saying this is the way things happened in this scrum that exists in our political arena. >> danny, what i'm hearing mark say i think is context matters. i've heard him make repeated reference to where this happens and the raucous nature of these events. i want to ask you a practical question. if lewandowski, when it was all said and done, whatever it was, apologize and took ownership of it, would we be having this

conversation now? >> maybe. that depends on this individual reporter and how she perceived the interaction and maybe it's a broader political question, which is a little beyond my personal pay grade. but in a case like this, you know, look, the way we write our criminal statutes in the states, we have such low tloesh holds. and florida's a fantastic example. all you need is intentional, touching and absence of consent. florida courts have specifically said, you do not need injury, you do not need harm. one case i read involved a student throwing ravoli at another student and it caused no harm. but yet that contact, that intentional contact without consent, was enough under the law. >> lewandowski right now wondering, which one should i call, o'mara or savalas. >> call o'mara. >> appreciate you being here. up next, i'm going to -- this is not a laughing matter -- talk to the mayor of a small city hard hit by heroin and a

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caregivers to help with personal care, housekeeping, meals, and most of all, staying engaged in life. oh, thank you, thank you. you're welcome. are you ready to go? oh, i sure am. we can provide the right care, right at home. one of the surprisingly big stories of this election cycle is the attention paid by politicians to the scourge of heroin addiction. the tragedy knows no class or racial boundaries. it's been an issue in new hampshire and ohio and now wisconsin on tuesday. nationally every year about 30,000 people die from heroin and opiate overdoses. in wisconsin 500 addicted babies are born each year. and with new york's primary weeks away, the city of ithaca is considering a proposal that will keep addicts safe.

it means allowing a safe area for addicts to shoot up. something that exists nowhere in the united states. the mayor of ithaca was elected at age 24. at 29 the youngest mayor in the town, first one of color and he joins me. mayor, 20 years ago i would have laughed at your proposal. i'm not laughing now. >> yeah. even two years ago this idea would have sounded crazy to me. but it's clear that we have a problem, and it's clear what we've tried hasn't been working. it's clear that the state and federal government are not going to save us. so we've got to find ideas that have worked in other places and adopt them locally. >> the arguments that i'm hearing remind me of narcan. i have an emt on my radio show, dan henning, i'll give him a shoutout, saved somebody's life a week ago with narcan. and i've heard relative to narcan, people on one hand say, well, you're perpetuating drug use because you're providing a crutch and others i guess like you say, no, we're saving lives. >> that's exactly right.

these -- we've had these conversations before about harm reduction, about keeping people healthy and safe. we had them when we opened needle exchanges 25 years ago. and people thought, if you provide clean needles, aren't you just encouraging drug use? no. we're saving people's lives by reducing hiv transmission. when we taught sex ed in schools, you give them condoms. you don't encourage them to have sex, you make sure that they are safe if they do have sex. >> i read the coverage -- >> it is -- >> i'm sorry, i want to make this point. >> sure. >> i want to say i've read the coverage of your proposal, and i think the media has gotten it wrong because i also took the time to go to your website and read the proposal. it's comprehensive. this is one kpeent component, but it's gheting all the headlines. >> yeah, i think because it's the most controversial and the most innovative. and when you're on the cutting edge of something, you expect

controversy. the plan does say it's not enough to keep addicts alive. we have to surround them with resources. we have to get them medicated treatment. president obama's plan he announced this week is groundbreaking. you have to keep people from using drugs. you've got to prevent people from using tools. the program was pioneered in seattle and albany and we hope to bring it to ithaca next year. >> you're not going to supply the heroin? >> no, we don't supply the heroin. but we make sure -- increasingly we're seeing heroin laced with other more powerful drug that's are killing people. in buffalo just a few miles from us, we had ten deaths in ten days because of fent anal. when people bring in their own drugs, even if they overdose, we can save lives. in vancouver, they had over 2 million injections and not a single overdose death. in fact, in a 16-block radius, overdose deaths decreased by 35% in the city of vancouver.

final point, your mayor says, look, i'm not cool with us because it's illegal behavior. the d.a. for the county in which your city is located is appla applauding you. >> yeah, and this is -- look, because those of us who have seen addiction up close understand that we can't solve this problem with sort of logic and sober thinking that we've youed in the past. those of us, children of addicts like myself, those who have faced addiction, understand that you need to meet people where they are and help pull them into the light. by keeping them in the darkness, keeping people shooting up in alleys and gas station bathrooms, you're only assuring they'll never get better and too many will die. >> mayor samante myrick, i think we'll remember that name, 20 years old when you were elected, now the mayor. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> still to come, your best and worst tweets. here's one.

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hi, everyone. top of the hour, 7:00 p.m. eastern, 4:00 p.m. pacific. i'm poppy harlow in new york. glad you're with us. we begin with politics and right now the center of the presidential election universe is in the badger state, wisconsin, all five candidates, three republicans, two democrats fanning out across the state, rallying supporters and trying to convert the undecided, all before tuesday's primary. neither national front-runner is pull eight head in wisconsin. hillary clinton is trailing senator bernie sanders by a small margin and donald trump is trying to play catch-up with senator ted cruz in the badger state. and this just in to cnn -- word from the republican front-runner's camp that milan ya trump