factors and the lower cost of energy from other sources. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. >> hey, good morning. i'm brian and it's time for reliable sources. this week from the museum, the museum of news internalism, we're watching nbc. we're going to show you some of the coolest artifacts at the museum and also a brand new exhibit about the social election with new data about the real state of the presidential race. and ahead michelle fields speaking out about lewendowski. plus the anchor of the pbs news hour is here sharing what he

would ask the candidates this time. we're going inside the trump family's newspaper. one reporter quitting the new york observer this week saying he's deeply troubled by the family tie. hear his story later this hour. up first megan kelly and donald trump. is murdock warming up to trump and if so, what are the consequences of that? one of the foes slipped into trump tower for an hour long meeting leaving everyone else wondering if these were peace talks. kelly wants trump to stop attacking her and wants something else too. a big prime time sit down interview. as of this morning, i'm told there's no commitment from trump. killy has time and a prime time special exactly one month from today. we'll see what happens. the conservative media split

over trump is real. this is from the day of the meeting with kelly. this is when fellow fox news brought it up to trump. . >> they called last week and said can you come up and i said can you come to trump tower and she did and she was very, very nice and we had a meeting and she was very, very nice. >> megan kelly being booed on fox. these are strange times we're living in. trump did calm the audience down and said the interview might happen. we'll see. meanwhile, elsewhere in murdock's house, this week the new york post endorsed trump for president. that's a big change from last summer when the paper said trump was toast and printed this cover. now, another murdock paper, the wall street journalist has been more skeptical of trump.

what is this divide tell us about the media echo system? joining me here at the museum three experts. the expert at the museum tha. thank you all for being here. you said the body language and behavior is noteworthy and reveals something about fox. >> it reveals something about trump and fox. there he is playing the media like a fiddle. boos comes up, he hangs back and doesn't say stop, doesn't put his hand up. he lets that play because he continues to dominate the media narrative. oerntd, manty doesn't say stop, that's my colleague either. so the question, this kind of very strange and tension filled relationship between trump and media my stroe and using the media as a foil continues when it's conservative.

>> jane, you use to work at fox and a contributor for many years. what do you think is going on? >> i think megan kelly is considering leaving fox news and i think she wants to make the leap. she's under her contract and not suppose to be talking to other people but she indicated she might be interested in a different kind of program. she's not been happy about being attacked by trump and now wants to do a barbara walters type special. manty has been unrelenting in his support. she's been you be set with bill o riley. i think fox is suffering for defending megan kelly. >> thanks to him, he's had the best lead. 500,000 viewers every night.

at the same time she wishes o riley would speak up in her defense. it seems to me she's doing genuine soul searching. these interviews thinking out loud what she might do. >> i think so too. having mean her on fox, she's a journalist and always been somebody who was interested in the story. even when she was attacked. i think she's tried to not react in times. yet at the same time i think she's savvy enough to know an interview would be quiet an interview on fox. >> she gets the interview and gets a huge rating. it would help her leverage in me gesh yagss. keep in mind this goes along. tell us why murdock matters and his vote matters. this week, our reporter reported murdock and trump are talking.

it seems he's warming up. it's significant because of what murdock owns. one of the great things, the flamers, now we have voices just within murdocks em bier. let me show a tweet on screen. famous conservative commentator. he said i owe a lot to murdock. it's a disservice to his legacy and the country he runs. crystal, of course, anti trump and he feels that people like murdock have normalized trump. >> i disagree with you a little

bit. i think megan kelly may want to stay at fox. i'm watching her and watching this thing play out and i feel like i'm watching the news version of house of cards. she goes on with cobert and reminds the audience when she's on the air at 9:00, the person before her, o riley and the person before her, those are both taped shows but she's live and that makes it better. her numbers are very well in the demographics. she's been on for a year now and brought a new life and presence and credibility to fox. this also provides interesting -- >> i think she's pursuing publicly and she's answering honestly. >> more angling to leave. this is why i'm watching this. here's clare under wood. she's at work here. >> he's said anybody who is a true conservative is not in favor of donald trump.

now you see people thinkingthat maybe trump is going to do well and as you say, there's a plit between people who say it's a disservice to the country and people who say we can influence him. >> there's a split here. in a way it's most important to us. touch on it. there's a split between journalism. megan kelly is a journalist. other players across the spectrum are acting as decision makers. >> they're giving trump a friendly outlook. >> what's interesting about this, this is the challenge for fox. there is a gentlemen legitimate

and real and serious discussion debate within conservatism about where this part party and movement is going to go. how fox chooses to join that debate and pursue that debate is a marker for them. >> that's the story. i'm curious to see if kelly changes the tone about trump next month. it's one of the questions we all wonder and ask as we watch the interviews of trump. how much are these interviewers trying to treat trump in a way that's gentle in order to get him to come back. manty is an example of that. >> this is the second sunday he's not appears on any show. noticing what's not happening here. frank, why is he choosing that? he's getting hammered.

there have been at least try distinct media narratives in the trump tro jekt ri. first, he was a novelty. have him on, it's fun. he'll say next he's the insurgent. he's taking people on in a different form and now in some ways since super tuesday, he's real and doesn't know what he's talking about and predicts the states and that's when the journalist and anchors go at him hard. when they go at him hard and force him to make mistakes like chris matthews, it's embarrassing and donald trump doesn't like to be embarrassed. he's finding these rules, whether in state conventions or media, actually sometimes apply to him. >> maybe running out the clock before the new york primary as well. we should point out your organization hasn't had an interview with trump. he's chosen not to be interviewed even though the other candidates have. >> i don't know to be clear.

>> publicly to perhaps persuade him. he's more likely to come on mpr. several of the other republicans before they drop out. we won't make special rules. we'll let him come on and be interviewed as anyone else would be. >> i think regarding the sunday shows he, maybe he's getting advice that he may be trying to retool and maybe he's going to be surrogates out there. maybe he's trying to figure out how to win the delegates. he clearly, if he's smart he's trying to figure out how to play the delegate game cruz knows how to play. >> by the way, in new york this morning, we'll show a live picture of an event where he's going to be having later in the hour. to this point, i'm not sure if

he's going to answer questions at that point. please stick around. we want to have you back later in the hour. coming up next, talking about trump and press conferences, this video is played on a loop. it's trump campaign managers grabbing the reporter's arm after a press conference. the campaign manager is not apologizing. michelle fields, the recoporters here after an exclusive interview after this. what's with him?

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welcome back to reliable sources. let me remind you why michelle fields is a household name. six weeks ago she attended a press conference. afterwards, she approached trump and tried to ask a question. that's when trump campaign manager lewindowski grabbed her arm. she didn't say anything but her boy friend tweeted about it calling him a thug. this incident became plit sized. first he denied touching her. trump said fields made it up. then after all that, she went to the police asking for an investigation and the authorities used the security cameras in trump's building to

confirm he did touch her. police said there was probable cause to lewindowski. this week, local prosecutors dropped the charge and said he might have been protecting trump from the reporter. she said the website did not do enough to support her. some trump fans say he attacked her viciously. this is what they said earlieie this week. i think women have a responsibility to make sure.

>> was this a joke to you? >> i think this shouldn't been such a huge story. if i just received an apology as i was told i was going to receive, this would have not been such a huge story. the reason is is because corey lied and they defamed me and went on a huge smear campaign against me and i think it sheds light on the character of the campaign and i think a lot of people were surprised by their blatant lies about me. that's why it became a huge story. it's the defamation, not so much the grabbing of the arm. >> you're saying the grabbing of the arm is not the big story.

let me ask you about the incident so we have the details right. according to the prosecutor this week, you went around sort of trying to get access to trump suggests you were working your way around the area. do you feel you did anything wrong trying to get access to the candidate that night? >> i think the prosecutors decision, the way that they handled this entire situation was very unprofessional. >> were you wrong trying to get to trump that night? >> no. >> you say you brushed him first. >> katie at nbc said this bubble thing is ridiculous. i went and violated donald trump's bubble. then the prosecutor went and got information. they didn't even go to get an independent source and said their independent source was a source, an expert that the corey camp gave to them. the entire situation seems sketchy. >> you feel it was not handled

fairly by the prosecutors. >> they talked about trump lifting his arm. i must have touched him. the reason he was lifting his arm was because he was getting a pen out of his jacket. i think a lot of it is weird. you look at the prosecutors and his wife's social media. they are at donald trump's resort all of the time. you look at the prosecutors wife owns a pr firm. you look at the pr firm's website and she talks about why you should work with her pr firm because she has lots of great working relationships and the first picture is her and donald trump and her and trump's wife. i can't speak for anyone else but if i were a prosecutor and my wife was trying to mono tiez her relationship with donald trump and it's right on her

website i would rekuz myself from the itch situation. >> i want to go back to the night of this incident. afterwards, you said you were jolted, grabbed tightly by the arm. i was shaken. people want to know if you somehow exaggerated that story by suggesting you almost fell to the ground. >> well, after that all happened i was told to write something up about what happened. >> did you overstate it? >> that's what i felt, i walked up to him with a cell phone, pen and notebook in my hand. i was going up to him and felt someone pull me back. i'm in high heels and not expecting anyone to yank me. if you listen to the audio, that was my reaction afterwards. i never said i was pulled. i hit the ground and towards the ground, that's what i felt.

if you heard the audio, that was the prosecutors. >> let me ask you about the n t next, you went to the press before the police. you spoke out before going to the police. >> i never wanted to go to the police. i did not want to blow this up. i was told i was going to get an apology. i never heard from corey. >> let's talk about not hearing from corey. >> that evening after i read her boy friend's twitter account i made a phone call to michelle and never heard back. it's not that we didn't try to reach out to get to the bottom of it, she wanted to make it a story and now i'm glad the story is over. he says the phone log shows he made a call that night. did you receive a call? >> i did not get a call to my knowledge. there was no voice mail, text, e-mail following up to try to

communicate. >> if he would have apology apologized that night it wouldn't have blown up. >> i didn't do interviews, i was getting tons of requests. i stayed quiet. the only reason i went to the police is because donald trump was saying i was making it up and questioning the bruises. the spokes person for donald trump was going on tv saying if this really happened why didn't she go to police. i felt they forced me to. i had no choice. i had to go get my bruises documented and that show the police this happened. they were saying i put make up on my arm. i had to bring someone in the situation to take down the facts. >> will you file a defamation suit? >> i'm not going to rule it out. do i think they defamed me? absolutely. corey said he had never met me or touched me. we know that's a lie. donald trump said that the

secret service told him nothing happened. weeks later donald trump says that the secret service says i was grabbing at him. >> there were contradictions in the trump's reaction to this. >> i think it shows malice. >> you said the site didn't support you effectively, what will you do next? >> i'm taking it day by day. this has been crazy and not a fun experience. i had to move out of my apartment because fox news accidentally published my address. >> you're not even living in your own home now. >> no, i had to leave. d.c. police have been incredible and working on hopefully getting some of these very serious threats handled. >> i was watching hbo's movie confirmation about the anita hill case last night. there's a quote in it. when someone comes toward, the victim tends to become the villain.

do you feel that's what happened to you? >> i feel the trump campaign tried to peak me as a villain. i think there's a lot of smart people in america that sees right through this and they see they defamed me and they're noticing this in the conservative movement, i think, it's also becoming the parent and there are people who are providing favorable coverage to trump and maintaining access in helping them. there's others who realize the truth about trump and the situation and trying to shed light on it. >> does that mean you'll be blacklisted by a trump white house? >> i would not be invited, i don't think so. i would at least like an apology from trump campaign before i would even consider going to a trump white house. >> i've heard trump supporters saying you should apologize to lewindowski for dragging him through this. what do you say to this? >> it's laughable. he grabbed me. he denied it and defamed me and

if anything, he should provide an apology. this is a man who threatened to blow up the car of his former boss. i don't think i'm going to get an apology any time soon but it would be nice. >> michelle, thank you for being here. when we come back, we're live at the museum in washington d.c. who better to talk to this than one of the most influential journalist in our lifetimes. jim joins me after the break and later this hour, wouldn't you like to cover politics at a newspaper owned by donald trump's son-in-law. hear from one reporter who decided he couldn't do it anymore. stop... clicking around book direct at hilton.com for the lowest price online and... start playing start relaxing start loving

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welcome back to reliable sources. live from the museum in washington d.c. the walls show the history of media, including this image of my next guest. he's a journalism legend dubbed

the dean of presidential debate moderators for moderating 12 of them. he led the pbs news hour for 40 years was. he's here this morning the tell me why. thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> you know you watched a lot of the primary season debates and i'm curious for your reaction to them. a lot has been made of the crowd, the audience this week at cnn's democratic debate. even though the audience members were told no booing, there was a lot of booing and hollering. should there be an audience at these debates? >> i think it's okay for the audiences to be there but they should shut up. they should not be part of the debate. the debate should be among the candidates. if you have, if you allow reaction from the audience, that becomes a part of the debate itself. that's not what the debate should be about. in the fall debates, the general re-election debates, there's

absolute silence from the audience and that's enforced by the moderators, et cetera, et cetera. that's the way it ought to be frankly in the primary debates. >> i was at the one in brooklyn and they came up beforehand and told the audience. let's have the debate on the stage and not the audience. some of the reporters were not heeding the request. what's the most important questions asked in the fall debates. as for now, there's not anymore primary debates. what's the most important topics? >> well, it's impossible at this point to be specific about what the question should be. it's not impossible to say the kinds of questions. they should all be about what the difference is between candidate a and candidate b on the things that matter. what would you do, billy bob, if you are elected president compared to what he would do or

she would do sammy sue or whatever? ne in other words, it should be about the differences over issues over what they would do as president of the united states and by the time you get to the fall debates, all the other issues, all the other things, all the things should be off the table. and having been disposed of and what will remain is remember, these debates are for the audience. they are for the people whose going to make the decision and vote. what they want to know is why i should vote for this person rather than that person and anything that effected that is fair game. >> when you say things should be disposed of by then, what are you talking about, side show stories? >> well, some of the things you just talked about that are side show now that are not going to be part of the fall debate. >> a lot of people said this election is like nothing we've

ever seen before but you've seen a lot of elections. is this new 1234 is it really new in politics? >> it's new the courseness of the language is new. the rudeness between and among the candidates is certainly rude. there's always been a little bit of rudeness and courseness. this particular round of primary discourses whether they were in debates or interviews or town halls, whatever, has been even more so. they are adversarial operations. it's going to be and you want differences. it's about differences. how you express the differences in our democratic society, one of the underpinnings of our democratic society is civil discourse, civil disagreement. i disagree with what you say, what you stand for, brian, but you're an okay human being and i don't hate you for that and i

don't disparage you or insult you and unfortunately, that line has been drawn. not only is the line drawn but the line has been passed over. >> it's been erased. so what do you wish for different in this election cycle? a lot of journalist watch this program, what do you wish they were doing differently? >> here's the problem as i see it? keep in mind that my view is no more special than anybody else's. when you're covering the courseness of a campaign, nein other words, some of the nasty things people say about one another, that eats up time that would have otherwise gone to covering the differences and what to do about isis and the difference in what to do about the wage disparities in this country. the unemployment, all the issues that health care, all the things that really matter to people.

even if you have a 24-hour, 24/7 news network. even then, you can't cover everything and so much of the time is devoted to these other things. those issues get lost in a should feel. there's just not enough time. >> what news do you seek out? what programs do you watch and what do you read? >> i watch the cbs news hour first and foremost and i follow the daily newspaper and i watch cnn a lot and i watch msnbc a lot. >> well rounded news diet. >> yeah. then coverage. this election, these elections have changed and there's so many events, not only debates but town halls and interviews but all kinds of things, a lot of stuff to watch and i don't watch owl of it but i am very interested.

i've been involved profession professionally in all this for years. i'm still, even though i'm not anymore, i'm still interested in all of it but i'm interested in the difference in the way these -- on the other hand part of my problem with what's going on is that you do get a feel for these people as individuals. that is also part of the debate process. even talking about a lousy subject or irrelevant subject you do find out something about these people. that's part of the judgment. that's true, they could be talking about nuclear proliferation for 30 minutes or an hour. you could also learn about the personality of the person and even though you're talking about a serious subject, that is relevant. people want to know, they can see this person as president of the united states and all the qualities. >> can you see all five of them as president?

>> all five of the current candidates? i can, i could imagine them as president of the united states. i can imagine anybody as president of the united states. so that's not a big deal. >> jim, great to see you. thank you so much. coming up next here, donald trump says the media is dishonest and disgusting. are members of his own family in the newspaper business? we'll see what its like to work there after the break. my school reunion's coming fast.

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welcome back. we are live here from washington d.c. this week, the new york observer made headlines after endorsing donald trump for president. the reason it's notable is because the newspaper is owned by donald trump's son-in-law. donald trump is the father-in-law of the observer publisher. that is not a reason to endorse him.

giving millions of disillusioned americans an opportunity is a reason. a day after the endorsement was published one of the top reporters announced he was resigning. ross, you were the national political reporter there and leaving in two weeks. why did you decide to resign from the observer? >> well, brian, it was a confluence of factors. one factor was the endorsement. i expected our newspaper given our deep pride that we would perhaps remain neutral. i was blind sided by the endorsement. maybe a bigger issue was the fact it was reported that our editor in chief had a roll advising donald trump before he tlifred a speech from the conference last month. >> right. he was looking at the draft of the speech and said he was not doing that again and the observer said the staff was free to report on trump. do not believe the hand kuchs are off and you are allowed to

cover trump like any other candidate. >> i would like to believe that i am and i want to believe the organizati organization. i have a lot of respect for the organization. i felt my position was becoming untentable and it was time to go. i think the observer can cover national politics and do it well. given what had happened for me personally, a line had been crossed and it was time for me, myself to depart. >> do you expect other political staffers as well? >> i don't want to speak for them. it will be their personal decision. i know it's been a trying month, a trying few months at the observer. at the same time, that's their decision and i'll let them announce it when they're good and ready. >> it's a complex ethical question. you don't have a next job lined up, do you? >> it's been a little difficult. certainly, i don't have a job lined upright now.

there's been a little interest. nothing set in stone. i don't know where i'm going next. financially, sure, it's not the best thing. at the same time i've gotten a lot of support from this. i can't say it's been horrendous. it's been an interesting few days. >> pay attention and watch it. thanks so much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, we're here at the museum and going to look at whose winning the social media election. fascinating data after the break.

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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. welcome back to reliable sources. it's all about the social media election. the screens behind me show all the social media chatter about the candidates. now, the biggest spikes are for

donald trump. he's harnessed twitter and facebook to get out the report. to get in the news and stay in the news. josh, the ceo of a accompany that crunches all this data says trump is not the only candidate standing out online. >> there's bernie sanders actually gives him a run for his money at certain points. you can see with our data behind us here that donald trump is at 54% and bernie sanders is at 30%. he's catching up. >> that means that people are talking about sanders pretty much as much as they're talking about trump? >> yes. this is a big change. last summer trump had upwards of 60% of the share of voice, now down to 35%, especially as bernie sanders' mentions go up. >> a screen here at the exhibit that shows emojis about the candidates and the emojis about bernie sanders are different. how so? >> they have a big flame in the

middle of them. >> that's feel the bern, of course? >> feel the bern. >> and for donald trump it's the train because everyone is talking about getting on the trump train. >> i didn't even know what they were until a couple of years ago and now these little symbols can be used as campaign slogans. it's not something the campaign comes up with but something his supporters do organically. i think that's why it's so important. there's another set of screens here at the exhibit that provide a sort of reality check to all the campaign coverage we consume every day. nowadays there are companies that predict the results of elections. one of those firms, pivot, says the democrats have so many structural advantages this year that the democratic nominee is the overwhelming favorite to be president. here is how co-founder jason finch explained it to me. so, your data contradicts a lot of what we think we know about politics. according to the pivot data, hillary clinton has more than a

75% of being president. >> right. >> donald trump has a much smaller chance. where does this data come from? >> we look at a lot of polling data. we look at other prediction markets, betting markets and, you know, one of the main sources of our data is our users. we have 150,000 users who will continually giving us feedback on our own odds. >> let's look at your predictions for the fall. you show hillary clinton with a -- let's find it there. 73% chance to be the next president. >> right. >> where is donald trump on this list? >> down here in the republicans. >> 14% chance? >> yeah. >> to be the next president? >> right. >> what he's saying is forget the horse ray race. at least be really skeptical when you hear about it. we'll be back with our panel from the newseum after this. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair?

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welcome back. we've talked a lot about the gop

this hour but after that contentious debate in brooklyn on the eve of a primary coming up this tuesday, let's bring back our all-star panel on final thoughts. frank cesno. we've zoomed in on new york and the northeast here on our magic walls. are some overstating the importance of this because it's happening in the media capital of the world? >> possibly but again it's new york. there's nothing like campaigning in new york. it is just different from the rest of the country. for example, here we have a texas conservative campaigning in the most democratic district in the country, in the bronx. there are a handful of republicans he can get to vote for him. a former new york senator actually from illinois and a vermont senator who is actually from brooklyn. there's no other place that creates situations like that. >> i remember last summer i heard a presentation where some political director said we could

see competitive primaries all the way through the spring, april, may. and i thought no way. >> it's a great story to cover but it's also a real story. on the democratic side, you have two people, clinton and sanders, both with some kind of roots or pretended roots in new york and sanders is coming off of seven wins in a row. can he gain traction here? can he bump her off? can he eclipse her presumed huge victory? this is a big question. and the issues in new york, whether it's race and policing in the city or upstate and agriculture, those actually resonate if anybody is paying attention to issues, which they should be. >> do you think endorsements have mattered in the past weeks and months? the new york post endorsed trump and the new york daily news, in a big way, endorsed hillary clinton over bernie sanders and other endorsements as well. do they matter? >> in new york, you have these newspapers and i think these newspaper endorsements may matter. and, clearly, the two of them

fighting it out. i will say when they said that trump had made reich mistakes, i thought this is a man who planned his campaign, says he is his own adviser. >> this is "the new york post"? >> right. i think they may matter to voters in new york. they may not matter anywhere else. >> do these old-fashioned endorsements have any influence? maybe new york is the one market where they do. >> the other interesting thing is this is the place that has had a relationship with donald trump since the beginning of time. donald trump has been talking in new york about running for president for basically 30 years. >> and new york still is the ellis island of politics, i think. things do ripple out from new york. >> it's interesting. >> we will be watching very closely to see what happens with the internals, what these numbers are, and how the media report the narrative coming out of new york. that's going to be interesting. >> frank, michael, jane, thank you all for being with us on this special show at the newseum. >> thank you. >> we're wrapping up on tv.

sign up for our newsletter, e-mailed version of all the day's news at money.com/media. "state of the union" starts right now. democratic dogfight. >> she didn't answer the question. >> i did. >> no, you didn't. >> yes, i did. i did answer. >> can i please -- well, don't put words in my mouth. >> who landed the toughest punches at the brawl in brooklyn? plus, is the pope feeling the bern? bernie sanders ditches the campaign trail for the vatican. he's just back from rome, and he'll tell us about his secret meeting with pope francis. and donald trump says the system is rigged. >> the republican national committee, they'd better get going because i'll tell you what, you're going to have a rough july at that convention.