myanmar will be the world's fastest-growing economy, on the other hand, venezuela is expected to contract by 8%, the worst projection of any country in the world. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. good morning and happy mothers day. i'm brian stelter and this is "reliable sources." our weekly look at the story behind the story as news and pop culture get made and what a week this has been. we're going in-depth today examining what donald trump's hostile takeover of the gop means for the media. so many experts while trump would never get to this point and would never succeed and one of them is preparing to literally eat his words, but we have more than cooking segments ahead this hour. the top editor of "time" magazine is here to explain why this is a huge opportunity for journalism. you could also call it a huge challenge.

what should reporters do when trump quotes the national enquirer? we will try to answer that later this hour. one thing is for sure, none of us have seen a story like this before. while the gop's primary battle seems to be over, the party's civil war is just beginning and it's being waged every minute on the airwaves. >> he won. he won. fair and square he won. time to move on. >> we have never had a nominee of our party who is so disliked. >> these statements from ryan and mcconnell that trump's got to unify the party. i say trump has unified the party. >> it's up to us to stop him. >> i think he's a pathological sociopath. >> you are signalling to the republicans stay home. that will elect hillary clinton. >> i don't think i would be capable of voting for donald trump. the question is what do i do? i don't know yet. >> with #nevertrump commentators on one side and trump believers like sean hannity on the other side and a lot of turmoil in

between, does the media need to cover this election differently? my view is that stereo typical debates between two side, one on the right and one on the left, that's not going to cut it this time. let's take stock of the conservative media divide with matt lewis and senior contributor to the daily caller and kailey mcmainy, and cnn political commentator and trump supporters. thank you to all of you. >> good morning. >> good morning, brian. >> matt, i think you might be in the middle here. someone who says you can't vote for clinton and for trump. do you think in these debates on cable news over the next six months you'll get squeezed out of the picture? >> that is the danger. at least historically speaking, from the right i'm tucker karlsson and from the left i'm paul begala. we want to make the binary choice to pit the right against the left and somehow that makes sense any this is unique. that's one reason why the never

trump movement probably won't have as much legs. it probably won't last as long as i think there is an incentive for people to kind of come home. you'll be pushed into supporting somebody. most people will be. >> ben, do you agree that it will fizzle out? you've said you will vote for hillary clinton, quote, i'm with her. >> you know, i think that the less likelihood that they'll be coming home and more likely that they'll be staying home if we can just get 3% to 5% of the republican party to not come out for the presidential candidate, i think that will be enough to keep him from winning and at least for me, the reason that i've said that i would even vote for hillary is because i believe he has to be stopped. >> let me ask you, though, to be honest here. is part of this to get attention? part of this to get on tv? isn't he the most in-demand person a conservative who hates donald trump? >> i've been talking to a lot of people about that. i've been writing about and

appearing and talking about trump for probably since last june when he first announced. when he announced i said i thought he was a clown running straight for the circus and that he was dangerous. there were a lot of pundits and radio hosts and television hosts that i felt were propping him up, and i think that if we don't stop him we're going to end up in a much more dangerous situation than we've been in in a long time. >> we know bill crystal is outside courting fair long time and he's a commentator. what do people like him have wrong about what's going on right now? >> here ate thing, brian. you are not a conservative if you do not support donald trump and it's crazy to me that i hear ben and i hear matt using conservatism as a shield. they're now all of a sudden concerned about conservative values and where were they when john mccain was for cap and trade, and where were they when

mitt romney when they laid out the blueprint for obamacare. those movements didn't exist. what you have going on here is an establishment, an elitist establishment that is rejecting their voters saying we know better than our voteders and we see that embodied in paul ryan and we see john mccain and mitch mcconnell who say you know what? my voters aren't agreeing with where i stand and therefore it's time for the party to change rather than kick out the voters. this party would not exist absent the voters and it's not conservative, this never trump movement. >> ben, i see you wanting to respond. >> okay, look. the republican party is the vehicle for conservatism. conservatives who joined the republican party did so because we believed our values would make their way to d.c. if the candidate isn't conservative then it's propoft rouse to claim that i must support him. that's not in support of conservatism and that's in support of republicanism, i'm not just a republican. i'm a conservative.

>> i hear so much -- >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> i just hear so much outrage from now and the never trump movement and as rush limbaugh pointed out, where was this outrage, about the iran deal? where was this concerted effort and the millions and millions of dollars and the outrage they see now against donald trump, no one, none of you have exhibited that over the left wing extremism in washington and it's interesting that it comes out now against your own. >> part of the reason for this is that hillary clinton and barack obama cannot destroy the conservative brand. donald trump can. donald trump can redefine what it means to be a republican and what it means -- in a way, trump is more dangerous to conservatism than obama and hillary because he is posing as a conservative. >> do you think the story we're seeing play out is the breakup of the gop and will this party exist in december of this year. this is making for strange

bedfellows and we're used to a certain cleavage here and for example, normally speaking you might have people like national review and intellectual conservatives and writers who are supporting people like marco rubio and paul ryan and you might have bloggers and talk radio folks supporting someone like a ted cruz, but with this donald trump candidacy you are seeing a breakdown that really defies even what we've come to know as the traditional split where you have people like mark levin, eric ericssoericsson, ne trump people and more populist authoritarian types who are more than happy to support donald trump. >> let me ask ben about something interesting that happened on tuesday. on tuesday, ted cruz's last, dying gasp of his campaign involved attacking fox news and attacking rupert murdoch and robert ailes. >> there is a broader dynamic at

work which is network executives have made a decision to get behind donald trump. rupert murdoch and roger ailes at fox news have turned fox news into the donald trump network. 24/7. rupert murdoch is used to picking world leaders in australia and the united kingdom, running tabloids and we're seeing it here at home with the consequences for this nation. that comment border line conspiratorial, saying this man coming in from australia and the uk affecting our election here and that the media did want donald trump to become the nominee of the gop. >> i don't know that they were concerned about whether or not he would be the nominee. i think it was just a matter of he creates ratings. there were plenty of networks that were able to charge more for advertising when he was in a debate, but i want to address the idea that we were all missing in action when obamacare came around, when the stimulus

came around. i don't know about anybody else, but i was out there marching with the tea party in 2009 and 2010. i was out there on the ground in 2012 and in 2014. i've been fighting the left and fighting obama ever since i've been able to have a voice at all on these issues. so the fact that now i'm coming out against donald trump is actually very consistent. i'm against liberalism and the destruction of conservatism and that's what trump represents. >> let me go to cruz -- >> sorry, kayla, go ahead. >> that's just so funny to me that you're saying that you want to vote for hillary clinton and somehow you're saying that furthers the conservative movement and that's so inconsistent and it makes no sense whatsoever. what do four more years of obama values destroy it. it would furthdestroy it, not fr it. >> he changes his positions? >> no, i think i know exactly

what i'm getting. i think i'm getting a sociopathic maniac. not only do i feel that's what i'm getting, if donald trump was president we have four years of him defining conservativsmconse. to have donald trump be our standard bearer would be so destructive, i don't think we could recover. this would be a third party situation if we can't get him to lose the election. >> let me pull it back to media for one moment before we run out of time. thinking about this divide and conservative media which we're seeing play out on screen, and think about what cruz said about fox news. do you think it is a problem for fox news and other conservative media outlets that have to figure out where to stand and where to be amid the possible meltdown of the party? >> trump has changed the rules and the paradigm and dynamic and i think individual commentators will have to wrestle not just with where they ought to be morally and ethically, but what positioned themselves for their

careers. that's part of the calculous and the same is true with networks. fox news, they're going to have to sort of decide where to go, and i know right now it's not monolithic. you've got straight reporters like brett baer and brett hume have been tough and you've got the more evening and the sean hannities who have sort of sucked up to him, but had is a time for choosing, and i feel like we're going to look back and i don't know who will be -- who's going to come out looking good, but what's happening this election cycle will define you i think going forward. >> so even ten, 20 years from now when we think about the rising stars of conservative media, this will be the year, you think -- >> yeah. >> where brands are made. >> people look back right now at 1976 and 1980. where were you? were you with reagan? people look back to 1964, i think 2016 will be our generation's 1964. >> matt, ben, thank you both for being here.

kailey, please stick around. we'll get back to you later this hour. coming up, why one columnist is literally eating his words while another is being praised for kaecorrectively predicting trump's rise and we'll be back with that and a meal preparation right after this.

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by now we know that many experts did not see donald trump coming and did not know he'd become the presumptive nominee. what about the people who did? what can we learn from him? let's consider political scientist norm orrenstein that the gop has become ideologically extreme and he doesn't recognize his party any longer. orrenstein fsz one of the few to declare that the time was right for a candidate like trump. that he wasn't a flash in the pan, but i force to be reckoned with. here's a headline from "the washington post." trump will lose or i will eat this column, making a promise that he plans to fulfill this week. crispy, newspaper dumplings and ground tacos and falafefalafel,

he's along with the aforementioned norm orrenstein and the american scholar at the institute. do you have any recipes for dana and suggestions for how he should consume his column? >> dana, i think you have fold it into gefilte fish. >> that sounds tasty, norm. >> a little horseradish. >> let me read your original argument from last october. quote, i'm so certain that trump won't win the nom mission that i will eat my words. i will eat the page on which this column is printed on sunday's post upon i have the confidence for the sammy reason mitt romney does. americans are better than trump. so, dana, did the voters disappoint you? what happened? >> no, brian, i don't think the voters disappointed me and i don't mean to sound defensive because i'm eating these delectable dishis and the same

week he announced, this is a monster the republican created and he's not a joke and a flash in the pan. i do have faith in the voters generally and even in the republican primary voters and it was vindicated in the sense that he never got a majority of them. he got 38% overall and the others never really got one clean shot at him other than ted cruz and that was hardly a consensus candidate. so that's sort of my excuse and it was really the system that let us down more than the voters. i will double down and expect that the american voters will get it right in the end and they will reject trump and however, i want to see how my diej else works aft digestion works after i eat the column. i want to see how the body consumes the ink and apparently it has heavy metals in them and it also has fiber and it could be beneficial. >> i do have a copy of trump's the art of the deal here and maybe that's an idea for the fall if you want to think about

it. on thursday you will do this live on facebook and you will do this in the kitchen with a four-star chef. >> we have the washington post food critic and he'll do a food testing and i don't know what sin he committed, and i think we'll have a seven-course meal and really consume some delectable pulp. >> you're all in on this. >> all in. >> let me get serious for a moment and talk about what this moment means and what we can learn from the wrong predictions. the cable news, right-wing whoings and social media and the activist voters who make up the primary and caucus electorate have become angrier and angrier and not just at the canyon socialist president and also at their own leaders and we've seen that in the exit poll and we've seen most of the voters in the states where we did these polls saying they felt betrayed by their own party. is that why you believe early on trump had a real shot at the nomination? >> that's one of the main ren, brian, there were a lot of others including the way the

rules were set up and the large number of candidates and the money and all of that. i do think that republican leaders seduced and abandoned voters over a period of time, promising them things that they simply couldn't achieve including bringing obama to his knees and repealing obamacare and dodd frank and blowing up government as we know it and we have just as examples the three young guns that did a book in 2009 and that's eric cantor, kevin mckarthy and paul ryan. so eric cantor knocked off in a primary by an unfunded tea party candidate. kevin mccarthy blocked from moving up after john boehner was hounded out of the speakership and paul ryan facing a challenge from the right in his own primary in august and being called paul ryno by a lot of people that it's almost impossible to reflect on it. >> there's been asymmetrical polarization that the republican party has moved further to the

right than the democratic party has moved to the left. dana, do you agree with norm's critique that the media has not fully explained to the odd wrens and the readers and the viewers this idea of asymmetric polarization and as a result we pretend there is balance when there's not? >> i think that's exactly right and we in the media generally are guilty of this sort of false equivalency and saying there are equal and opposite things occurring here. the fact is they have not been equal and opposite things and i think there is a real problem now in the coverage of trump and that the instinct in the media say he's going to be the republican nominee, let's cover him the way we've covered mitt romney and george w. bush and john mccain. my argument is no, this is something fundamentally different and this is a character acting outside of our democratic system and he needs to be covered differently, but that's a real challenge and i can't tell you exactly how to do it. certainly, the huge volume of free advertising the media are giving donald trump who hardly

had to spend a thing to do the nomination, this is what we looked at. >> i don't have the answers either. should trump be covered like any other candidate in history or should he be covered outside the norms and outside the mainstream and so we don't have a list of votes or a list of actions he's taken and what we haven't said is a businessman track record and a reality tv show to compare with. it's a very different situation. norm, i wonder if trump should be covered, should he be covered fundamentally differently than mitt romney and others. >> let me go back to your question to dana. when tom and i did our book in 2012 it's even worse than it looks. and we heralded it with the washington post outlook column which said let's just say it and this time the republican is the problem. there was almost a willful decision especially by television networks, cable and broadcast to ignore that argument completely. they didn't even want to touch the idea that this was anything

but both parties are the same and now i think there's a dilemma that trump is a different kind of candidate. you're discussing some of it, your first segment and the divisions among republicans and on the conservative side, but the degree to which trump is being treated in a fashion different from other candidates is one in which he can sit there in his pajamas and call in in a fashion that no one's been able to do before, doesn't get challenged with the second or third follow-up question. i think this is a real gut check time for american media. >> we are seeing that change. the call-s in, for example, i noticed on the morning shows and "meet the press," both had trump on camera and there does seem to be a change there. >> let's hope so. >> i have to go to a bottom line. why had should we believe experts like you, dana, who weren't entirely last fall or last winter when you tell us what will happen now? >> i don't think you should

believe me or anyone else in making predictions about the future. it's only that, a prediction and speculation. obviously, we don't have crystal balls and we can give you snapshots in time like polls do. i think what's important to listen to in the media is what's being described of this man. you ask why should he be covered differently? well, i think it's fair to say he has a consistent record of being a racist and misogynist, demagogic, and talking about doing things that are unconstitutional interms of targeting innocents and torture. this is outside of our system. >> his supporters say he doesn't mean it when he says that. >> let his supporters say that, but we in the media should be saying this is something fundamentally different from what we have seen certainly in modern times. >> norm, final word to you. who should we be listening to, who should we be listening to in the fall because already we've heard how the deck is stacked

against trump in support of hillary clinton and how she has the electoral advantage and the electoral maps in the fall show that and yet there are worries on the democratic side about not taking trump seriously in the months to come. >> one of the things that i would say, brian, as i watch the talk shows whether it's on sunday or during the week, you get an array of people who have been wrong for a very long period of time consistently and who keep coming on the air and that's all right. we're always -- we have to be humble. not everyone will be right in making predictions about human behavior, but the guests that come on. the democratic strategists and the republican strategists and the ones that bloviate a lot. i just haven't seen it. i think it's a broader problem than trump. it's a problem with the way that television especially handles its analysis. >> the reality here is that there's two x factors in this fall, right? hillary clinton expected to be

the nominee. for the first time a female nominee president of the a major party and on the other side, a billionaire businessman who does not have a political track record and we don't know what can happen because we've never had those vierable yabls before and that's what makes it so hard to forecast where we'll be in six months. we look forward to thursday and norm, thank you for being here, as well. >> thank you, brian. >> coming up next here, will we be seeing fewer donald trump interviews? will he change his free media strategy if we'll talk about that and what one top manager calls a huge opportunity for journalists right after this. ei. this is huge news! it's all thanks to our birds eye chef's favorites side dishes perfectly sauced or seasoned. what are you..? shh! i'm live tweeting. oh, boy. birds eye. so veggie good.

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welcome back to "reliable sourc sources." i'm brian stelter. everyone has been about how donald trump should be covered including the president of the united states. >> i just want to emphasize the

degree to which we are in serious times and this is a really serious job. this is not entertainment. this is not a reality show. this is a contest for the presidency of the united states and what that means is that every candidate, every nominee needs to be subject to exacting standards and genuine scrutiny. >> hillary clinton said much the same thing in a private fund-raiser on friday urging reporters to ask more follow-ups. with all these media critiques swirling around, i asked one of the top editors in business nancy gibbs how she's telling her staff to prepare for the fall election. >> nancy, thanks for being here. happy mother's day. >> thank you. i would love to hear your impression of this week's coverage and you say this is a huge opportunity for journalists now that we know who the

presumptive go, p nominee is. >> there has never been a candidate in most of our life times about whom we know so little in terms of what his vision of his presidency would be, what his actual policies would be, what his -- who would be advising him and who he would listen to and what his priorities would be. there is no road map. >> each though he's been in the media spotlight for 30 years. so there certainly isn't a voting record or a legislative record or governing record to look at. i think that there will be a lot of excavation on his business record going back now as people sort of put together the pieces of what and who has shaped him, but we still don't know what a trump administration, were that to happen, would be like and to the extent that when people ask him who do you respect, who do you take advice from and he says he listens to himself that makes

an even greater reporting challenge if the answers are all in his head and reporters will have to get them out of him. >> are you adding more reporters to this beat in the months to come? >> it depends on how we define the beat. the actual following candidates, probably our plans don't change and the real opportunity and the real challenge is actually to turn the cameras around away from the candidate and to the audience. i want to understand this electorate much better than i do now. we have been surprised from the very beginning of this campaign. that's why so many predictions were wrong and i think understanding what it is that has caused to this point, republican primary voters to behave in ways that define all sorts of expectations. what levels of anger, of dispiritedness and of hope are driving them. i think there's so much we do not know about where the public is right now and that is an

enormous challenge and that takes a lot of shoe leather. >> you mentioned some of the faulty predictions made in the past. last time you were here in the program you said the early coverage of trump was like a continuous obit. now that he's the presumptive fom me, do you think that's changed marketedly and has there been overreaction in the coverage? >> it hasn't changed in certain quarter where this week you heard some conservatives saying that republicans in the senate should push ahead with merrick garland's supreme court nomination because there's no possible way that the republicans can now take back the white house and hillary clinton nor bernie sanders would surely nominate a more liberal justice and so merrick garland is the best they can get. so they're already predicting that november is settled and have written off the prospects of a trump presidency. having said that, i think by and large what we saw this week was an extraordinary reckoning and of this -- he actually now is the presumptive nominee when

kasich and cruz dropped out. i think more quickly than anyone had anticipated. >> let's remember on tuesday, we were not expecting these speeches from kasich or cruz. >> that's right. and you just felt it within the political establishment of oh, my goodness, this is actually real. this is actually happening and you're right. i don't know if you would say it was an overcorrection, but certainly the fact that the entire storyline that this was going to be fought right up to cleveland and that cleveland itself would be a fight and so the prospect of donald trump as the republican nominee was by no means fixed and then all of a sudden everyone wakes up wednesday morning and there we are. >> once again, reporters are maybe disappointed they're not going to get a contested convention this summer. of course, a lot can happen between now and july, and so much has happened in the last 11 months and at the moment, no contested convention. >> it depends how you define contested. you have reince priebus as the rnc chair and speaker ryan as

the chairman of the convention and then you have trump as the presumptive nominee. those three men are not complee exactly on the same page and what is the message of that convention and what fights will take place within committees? there will still be a lot of cruz delegates on those committees. i think the idea of a very predictable, scripted, stayed, republican convention that party leaders in the past have always tried to orchestrate is probably a less likely prospect this year. >> i had a hard time on tv on wednesday morning trying to get my arms around what was happening because this was such a historic moment to see trump as the presumptive nominee. you wrote the book on there "the presidents club" about all of the living former presidents and this was in 2012 and it made me think of the iconic image of barack obama in 2009 with all of the living former presidents in the oval office, just help us imagine what that picture might look like if it's president trump. >> this was also the week when both former republican

presidents and both presidents bush came out saying they couldn't support trump and we couldn't sit this one out and you're facing the prospect that if such a lunch and such a gathering the club were to meet the new guy were to happen before president trump's nomination. every single person there would have been opposed to him. you would have president obama and president clinton and president bush and president carter y eer all in a row to we someone that the both parties deposed. what the presidents say to each other it doesn't matter what party you belong to, we want you to succeed and the country is more important. that's what president bush said to barack obama. leave aside party. we all are here to help you. >> so how many more times do you think trump will be on the cover of "time" now and november? i'm going to put the over under on five. coming up next here, we all know donald trump distrusts the mainstream media.

he says we're dishonest. what is the link between what he reads and what he says. we'll have the conspiracy theory election next. at red lobster's create your own seafood trios, you get to pick 3 of 9 all-new creations for just $15.99. and with this many new flavors trust me, you'll be glad you can try three. like creamy baked lobster alfredo and grilled chimichurri shrimp and panko-crusted crab cakes bursting with crabmeat. because some choices are hard, but this one, this one's easy. so hurry in before it ends!

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we are all only as good as our sources of information. we make decisions about how to vote and who to believe based on the information we consume. that's why we need, pardon the use of the title here, reliable sources, and that's why i cringe when i hear donald trump reciting conspiracy theories. this is harmful no matter how well journalists debunk what he says. case in point this week the national enquirer story alleging a link between ted cruz's father and jfk assassin lee harvey oswald. this is unproven. just to be clear, there's no evidence to believe it's true and lots of evidence to believe it's not true. it made its way to the enquirer and then made its way to donald trump's mouth.

>> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald's being, you know, shot. i mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. what is this right prior to his being shot and nobody brings it up and they don't even talk about that and that was reported and nobody talks about it, but i think it's horrible. >> the most troubling part of it, i think is when trump accuses the press of covering up this horrible family secret. later in the day cnn's jake tapper fact-checked him on that. >> we in the media don't talk about it because there's no evidence of it. so any suggestion that cruz's father played a role in the kennedy assassination is ridiculous and, frankly, shameful. that's not an anti-trump position or a pro-cruz position. it's a pro-truth position. >> tell me if you agree. i think it's pretty unusual to see something like that on tv, but it shouldn't be because by re-tweeting false information or

repeating what he reads on obscure websites trump represents a unique challenge for the press. before we go further, let's be honest, trump is far from the only politician who tells exaggerated stories and dubious statistics and he is the only one that repeats a smear that is on the national enquirer or tabloid. the journalists who fact check him every day say he is categorically different from the rest of the contenders out there. >> trump said he was counter punching because cruz's father had attacked him. he said he didn't believe the enquirer story, but he thought people should know about it. trump has been doing this for a long time. he bought into the birther conspiracy, repeatedly saying that president obama was not born in the united states and in some ways that led to his rise among conservatives. more recently trump cited grossly inflated numbers of syrian refugees, relocated in america and falsely said that thousands of people in new jersey cheered on the day of the 9/11 attacks. >> i watched when the world

trade center came tumbling down, and i watched in jersey city, new jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering. >> that story has circulated via chain email letters for years, you know the ones you get from your relatives as george stephanopoulos pointed out to him, it wasn't true. >> i saw it. >> you saw that with your own eyes? >> george -- >> there were people that were cheering on the other side of new jersey where you have a large arab populations. they were cheering as the world trade center came down. it was well covered at the time, george. >> to be clear again, that did not happen. if lots of people have been cheering in jersey it would have been a huge story and we would have the video and we would play that video right now. to be fair to trump, he has not repeated that 9/11 claim in a long time, but he has invoked other conspiratorial ideas. back in march he wrongly claimed that this protester who rushed the stage had, quote, ties to

isis. chuck todd tried to tell him that he'd been tricked by a hoax website. >> you have to check it before you ask the question. >> no, we have checked it. that's my point, sir. there's no ties to isis for this man. no law enforcement official and this video that you link to appears to be a hoax. >> supposedly there was chatter about isis. i don't know. what do i know about it? all i know is what's on the internet. >> all i know is what's on the internet. i think that sentence is key to understanding trump's campaign. it doesn't seem like he distinguishes between "meet the press" and "the national enquirer." it's important to recognize that many voters don't either. we can't put our heads in the proverbial sand and pretend like this misinformation is out there and we have to address it head-on as journalists and i think a lot of us have a lot to admire about his campaign and not a tendency to accept the conspiracy theorys. >> how some news outlets have

higher standards than others and some people will believe me and some people won't. the self-inflicted wounds and the lowering of standards have made it tougher for the media overall and have made it tougher for us to hold candidates accountable. like the ones we saw from taerp, neve non louse and todd are part of the solution because as seth meyers predicted this week we'll be hearing more conspiracy theories this fall. can you imagine what trump's going to say about hillary? i think it's time for hillary to tell us where she was when biggie got shot. that's all i'm saying. if she has an alibi, i'd love to hear it. >> that in a nutshell is maybe what the next six months will be about and it is a unique challenge for the press. when we come back, more on this relationship with trump and conspiracy theories and we'll ask two supporters what the press is getting wrong about the gop nominee. we'll be right back. milk has 8 grams of protein to help give me energy to unleash my potential.

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welt come back, before the break, we are talking about conspiracy theories. i want to follow up and ask what the presses perhaps missing about the presumptive gop nominee. i want to bring back -- she's in sacramento, and here in new york is i don't receive barelli, a counc councilman and cochair of donald trump's new york campaign. when something like that happens, when trump brings it up and creates a news cycle that is unproven, does part of you at least wish it doesn't happen, wish he wouldn't express those sorts of beliefs on tv or phone-ins? >> he mentioned why hasn't the media looked into this, but i agree you should never cite a store from "the national enquirer" and it kind of took us off message. i guarantee it's probably not a source, but he mentioned it in passing, instead of him focusing on the gnome near, we talk about this time and time again.

i think the big story is he's about to have more votes than any presidential nominee in history. >> we can't pretend like other media exists. people are seeing it at the supermarket, i think we have to knock down that information. see if it's true, knock it down. >> i think it does detract from some of the better articles that could have been written about him. that said, look, people do sit on the grocery line and see "the national enquirer" and it endear him to a lot of people who lead quite regular life and don't read "national rerue" for example. >>, this was a call-into "fox & friends" do you think this free media campaign will continue? do you have any insight on that? >> you know, i will say that him

being in the headlines, a constant story, it's a double-edged sword. on the one hand, but on the other hand this media conch has been extraordinarily negative. every week i look forward to waking up to see what the media is saying now. every week it was something new and the vote we realize were able to see through the bias and sigh we not the caricature, so i think the media coverage has been a double-edged sword, but in the end i think voters were able to see through it. >> i agree. it's disproportionate coverage that some of it has been negative. joe, what do you think is still misunderstood by anti-trump whereby journalists very skeptical, what is still misunderstood about his appeal. >> whether they're until beltway or sort of in the mainstream media don't really understand that trump has a better ability to bond with regular people than

most people of that class. >> didn't that come from "the apprentice"? >> i don't know. he's always come off as rather normal in person, but this taco tweet thing, media went head over heels for it almost a couple days, fp hillary clinton went to junior's cheese cake and absolutely refused to even touch it. what do you think voters find more another? >> talking about fried chicken and saying i loved blacks, do you think he was setting up for racial debates by saying i love hispanics. >> he's not the first candidate to ever eat ethnic feed to appeal, ted cruz was rolling matzos and eating dominican food. guess what? it's working. he's gotten the most votes in the republican nomination, but we'll see him probably have more votes than hillary clinton. >> thank for being here and lets

us wrap up this conversation. we'll be right back on "reliability sources. meals. and they only take 15 minutes to make. ahh! birds eye voila so veggie good

thanks for tuning in today. happy mother's day to my mom and marilyn. and student, "state of the union" starts right now. tapper up next. what a week. >> we had 17 people, all smart, one by one, week after week, boom, boom, boom, gone, gone, gone. >> donald trump clearing the decks, republicans taking sides. will his own party support him? >> i'm not there right now. >> the cnn exclusive that has everyone buzzing. plus, sarah palin. she was one of the first big names to back trump. >> we needed a revolution, and we found a revolutionary. >> will her former running mate john mccain join her? exclusive interviews with both mccain and palin.