tv Wolf CNN May 20, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT
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to speak this hour. live coverage. stand by for that. let's get to the breaking news. the first objects now being recovered in the med train yite sea. those are body parts and luggage that disappeared on flight from paris to cairo. that according to egyptair and greek officials. it was locate around 180 miles north of the egyptian coast but the fuselage have not been located. search crews from a number of nations including the united states, france, and greece all combing the mediterranean area right now. egypt now established a new investigative committee to look into the tragedy. it's being run by the same person who headed the investigation into last year's downing of russian plane in egypt. that was in sinai. killed 224 people. widely believed to be the work of terrorists using a very small bomb. here in the united states, officials are keeping a very
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close eye on the latest developments. >> we still don't know what happened there. we're following the investigation closely. our hearts go out to the families and friends of the people who were lost. but most importantly, it's a stark reminder that what we do is really important. we need to do it well and efficiently. >> right now, the reason for the plane's demise is unknown. although the prevailing theory for both the u.s. and egypt is that it was terror. u.s. officials, however, stress that as of now, there's no, quote, smoking gun. there have also been no claims of responsibility by any terror groups. at least not yet. the air base on the greek island is used as a staging ground for search and recovery operations. cnn international diplomatic editor is there with details on the search and how the weather is affecting the operation. >> reporter: wolf, this is one of the greek air forces seen
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with an aircraft and this is being prepared to go out on a search and recovery mission. they have one of these out over the search area. we understand as well that they have a surveillance aircraft also over flying in the area where the search is going on right now. also, today, three u.s. p-3 surveillance aircraft increasing the u.s. effort to try and find the debris out there on the mediterranean sea. now that some of that debris has been found, those body parts, the seats from the aircraft, parts of passengers or luggage, that's floating up as well and can focus this effort. there's a british naval vessel out on the water as well as egyptian vessels and also, that information from the european space agency and the oil slick on the surface of the water been seen close to where this debris has been spotted and found.
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that oil slick typical from an aircraft entering the sea. could be hydraulic fluid or aviation. it's not clear yet but if spotted by satellite, if it's associated with egypt, 804 but that's something again held into focus hoping to pinpoint the recovery effort. as friday as gone on, the visibility diminished, wind picked up and rain moving in. the swell has been high and all, of course, going to make the visibility and the recovery effort a little bit slower. but the pinpointing, the area now just southeast of where the aircraft disappeared off the radar, all of that very, very important right now, wolf. >> nic robertson, reporting for us. thank you. relatives of the crew of the egyptair flight 804 expressing frustration into the crash. 66 people were on board the plane. the co-pilot feels that egypt is
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being undually scrutinized. >> it's our airports. it's our flight. it's our everything. but it's not where the aircraft came from. just landed from some other country and then the passengers and flight. i mean, to us, normally takes weeks. and when it comes to an egyptian aircraft, it's ours. and then pointing fingers, it's our airports, it's our pilots, it's our entrance and then what? >> our senior international correspondent arwa damon in cairo international airport. arwa, what more can you tell us about this egyptian investigative committee that's been formed? >> reporter: well, its main focus is going to be trying to find the answers to those questions that everyone has been
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asking. how and why did this plane come down and what can be done to prevent this in the future? the problem is it's very difficult to begin that process before main parts of the plane have been recovered. now, the man who was heading up the investigative committee is the same person who headed up the metro jet investigation. remember when isis claimed responsibility for bringing down that russian budget airliner over the sinai and in that case, it was and ended up being explosives that caused the detonation that then brought down the aircraft and that led to a series of investigations into security procedures at the airport and then led to the country having a greater height and sense of awareness and beefed up security when it comes to its own measures within egypt but this investigation, wolf, is going to need to span across countries and across continents, given how many nations at this
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stage are already involved. >> we'll stand in close touch with you. i want to discuss the latest findings with my guest, our aviation analyst. peter as well as senior contributor david galla. they're finding body parts, pieces of the wreckage, other stuff. what kind of clues can they get from what they're finding right now? >> that's a very difficult process and the early stuff that they're going to pick up, the human remains that's floating is going to be the lighter things. and it may but most likely will not lend itself to analysis of whether it was a bomb or not. >> freorensically, can they determine it? >> they can if the bomb was located in the luggage and if you're lucky enough to get what was adjacent to that. most likely, that's not the case. because when a bomb explodes on
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a plane, the first material off the plane is always the most important and that tends to be further up the flight track so if you're in a large debris field, you're probably not going to see the first material off the plane. but you'll be able to see. you might be able to see whether there was fragmentation or pieces of shrapnel in the suitcases or in the human remains, there may be some indication. >> there could be important clues. take us through some of the challenges of finding the wreckage in the water, especially in this area in the mediterranean whether it's about 10,000 peopfeet above the surfa? >> it's a serious endeavor, wolf. if it's in the deepest part, we're talking about mounting a full blown deep water expedit n expedition. you have to have very sophisticated tools like robots, sophisticated sensors, sonar and then a ship and a team who knows how to work the water depths.
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we're talking about putting together a fairlylaborate expedition? >> if this is a crash, peter, a crash investigation right now, which it is, but if some terror group, isis, let's say, declares responsibility for this, how does that change the investigation? >> it will change it pretty dramatically. if it's an accident investigation, it will most likely be conducted under the guidance of what they call annex 13, which is a treaty that many of 200 plus countries have signed that guides how accident investigations are conducted. if it is an act of terror, then that treaty really doesn't apply and the country conducting the investigation is really free to conduct it any way that it sees fit in its national interest. and the french and the british are contributing right now significantly. they're probably continuing to
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contribute. so if it becomes a terrorism investigation, the issue of transparency ceases to be at the top of the agenda. >> how does that affect you, your colleagues, david, the size of the debris field is enormous, obviously, if it becomes formally a terror investigation, what is the direct impact on the search operation if you were involved? >> well, it just means that every single bit of that aircraft and every bit of human remains can be found as part of the puzzle, part of the mystery. so it just adds more intensity to the survey. you don't want to miss or leave anything behind. >> peter, for the all practical purposes, they're working on the assumption of the terror mission. >> that's the discussion so far. >> more than has been declared but that's the assumption a lot of these governments now have. >> that's right. >> everyone stand by. thousands of people with access to airplanes, airport maintenance crews, janitors,
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the united states' initial theory that a bomb brought down egyptair 804 is raising new questions about airport security specifically from the former cia director james woolsey in an interview with cnn, he believes the crash was, quote, an inside job and he questioned the tsa's ability to stop something similar from happening here in
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the united states. >> the whole focus seems to have been from avoiding terrorist attacks on tsa and let's add more tsa people standing around as we walk through the magnetic detecte detecters. that strikes me as perhaps not front and center as the things one needs to do. the hard thing in many aspects of law enforcement and intelligence is that you have to get into people's backgrounds and understand why they might be the radical ones and the process for doing that, people don't like, sometimes, it's done wrong and it would affect, you know, people's privacy. >> cnn's rosa flores asked the tsa administrator about woolsey's comments. >> anytime you have a trusted population, you want to verify that. the way we do it is running them continuously against terrorist screening and looking for
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affiliations with people who are in those databases or in databases associated with that and then looking at their criminal history background check and we do that ourselves regularly with the intelligence community. >> let's discuss all of this with representative john who is a congressman from upstate new york joining us from syracuse. you're a member of the house homeland security committee. is the tsa right now effective or is it failing in its efforts? >> i wouldn't say it's failing but there's room for improvement. both domestically but also internationally. let's not forget, we spent billions of dollars every year domestically trying to keep our skies safe but if we don't do a good enough job for airports and flights coming directly to the u.s., we may leave a back door open with vulnerabilities and i'm quite concerned about that. >> you're worried about james woolsey, the former cia director as well. the head of the tsa said it's down nearly 6,000 employees right now when you look at what
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happened to brussels airport, the bombing there and the belief that the egyptair flight was probably a terrorist attack. why are u.s. airports short thousands of security employees right now? >> well, one of the reasons they're short right now is they have that they would have much larger number precheck. the precheck system is basically a way of verifying up front and doing recurring vetting of travelers up front and then get expedited screening and usually twice as fast as people without the precheck program. that program has just not developed the way it should have and that's a big concern. >> you mean, not enough people have applied to go through the tsa precheck program? is that what you're saying? >> i am saying that, yes. and i passed a bill out of the house earlier this year that allows some mandated tsa to do reforms in the program and formed with private industry to expand a program.
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once you expand the program, you'll be able to process a lot more people in an airport at any given time and it's quite frankly flown to the senate except for one senator has a got on it and once they lose a hold, they can get that signed into law and start the process in the right direction. >> would you feel better if the tsa, if all those employees checking people during the security checkpoints were private contractors or government employees? >> well, we had a hearing on that earlier this year. the transportation security subcommittee called sbp program. a private partnership program. some airports have the private screeners, some do not. most do not still. but we haven't seen a discernible difference in terms of level of contraband. the only correction is whether we could be more from an administrative standpoint and we're looking at aspects there. we found last week by talking to stake holders that gives us
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indication that there's serious administrative problems and i'm working on a bill to introduce next week to address that. >> how confident are you, congressman, that airport employees who have access to planes where the janitors or others get the proper screening in advance? >> i'm absolutely confident they do not get the proper screening. i'll tell you why. we looked at this last year when i first got into congress, a fella got off a flight and had a backpack full of guns loaded in his backpack. most of which were loaded. turns out he was selling them on the streets in new york. this was his tenth trip up making similar in his backpack and had an employee from the atlanta airport who just walked through security unobstructed and searched and handed him the bag and walked down the plane with guns. i'm confident there's not enough scrutiny going on and not trying to say i've got the magic elixir to everything but we've passed a
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far reaching access control bill that flew out of the house as well and in the senate as well. that would really be up to scrutiny for employees nationwide. we must do that. >> congressman, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you very much. anytime. >> john from new york. coming up, france's charles de gaulle airport. the doomed flights. upping security and facing scrutiny after 85 employees actually lost their security clearances for alleged radicalization. we have details. it's your home.
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france is moving quickly to enhance security in the wake of the crash of egyptair flight 804. 66 people were on board. the flight originated at charles de gaulle airport in paris. the french interior ministry now said it's a necessity to reinforce security at the airport. joining us now from bahrain is natalie gulay. thank you so much for joining us. have you been presented any evidence that this was indeed a terror attack? >> no, absolutely not. we have no evidence yet. absolutely not. >> what is your working assumption? >> first, we have to be cautioned but then regarding the security of the french airport, i would like to underline that first of all, we are under heavy state of emergency since november and i think that we increase the level of security
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in the airport. that is a very strong assessment. >> as you know, there were reports that last year, maybe 40 or 50 or 60 airport employees were removed from their security clearances because they supposedly had gjihadi connections and access to planes. tell us about that. >> for paris airport, you have almost 80,000 people and the french system regarding the privacy and so on across the databases, but at the end of the day and especially after november, the police discover that 80 people were suspected to have linked with terrorism and then their clearance have been redrawn as a matter of fact after this double check of
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ability and past and regarding the databases, but previously, we have to admit that we didn't have this kind of control, unfortunately. >> do you believe that the security situation at charles de gaulle airport right now is very, very strong or could it be better? >> it always could be better. i was listening to the previous man who was talking with you and said we always can improve more regarding security but at the same time, nobody wants to slow down the traffic. so we have to increase the control but at the same time, the traffic is increasing too. so it will be very challenging. we saw that also in brussels and this time, we really don't know what happened. so we have to be really cautious about any kind of conclusion but at the same time, that could be a good approach to increase the
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control and especially the databases of the people and all the connections they could have and have a better control and also on the checking process. >> natalie gule, thank you so much for joining us. good luck. >> okay. one part of the investigation will be centered on the charles de gaulle airport. of the 86,000 workers there, we just mentioned as many as 85, 85 have their security clearances revoked recently for various reasons. joining us now from new york is miles o'brien, our cnn aviation and science correspondent. he is the pbs aviation and science correspondent for the pbs news hour. also joining us, phil mudd, cnn counterterrorism, counterterrorism official. thank you very much for joining us. who is best equipped right now
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to investigate this crash? >> you've got parallel investigations. you've got flight investigators at the physical property of the aircraft. people like me from the intelligence business don't know much about that kind of thing unless you have a missile involved which we didn't appear to have in this case and tsa in looking at the physical security in paris and looking at screening procedures. that's a transportation security information. intelligence guys like at the fbi are looking at people. that is flight manifests. were any of those people on watch lists? the people involved in unloading baggage, were they identified and looking at places like syria or iraq. al qaeda members are they talking about an operation that might suggest they're involved in this? a lot of agencies involved in different phases of this investigation, wolf. >> miles, talk about the levels of security investigators will be looking at specifically at
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charles de gaulle airport. this plane took off after 11:00 p.m. any security gaps that might be exaggerated, shall we say, because it's such a late departure? >> that's a good question. a lot of this is people looking after each other. that's a good healthy dose of the redundancy in the system is the fact you're seldom alone. to the extent there's a skeleton crew and under cover of darkness, does that provide a greater opportunity for somebody who has nefarious intent? i think that is quite possible. you know, when you think about the number of people who have access to the other side of the airport that you and i spent most of our time on, the ramp, the caterers, it's a huge security issue to track them. i told the european airport is better about screening close to aircraft but the united states
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is simply a matter of background checks and hoping for the best. as we've seen in the best, that doesn't always work out. >> phil, let's talk about two of the other places the plane stopped at that same day before the flight from paris. cairo, it was air ai trtria andn tunisia. especially in the aftermath of the suspicion the metrojet plane that exploded over sinai supposedly was the result of a bomb inside the plane that was a size of a soda can. >> look, wolf. if you're involved in an investigation like this and you can't close off any avenue of the investigation, that's why i oppose american officials including members of congress saying we have a working theory. we don't have a working theory. we have avenues of investigation including looking at those airports and the security at the airports you just mentioned. i would be thinking, did
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somebody put baggage on? i don't know the answer but i can't rule that out yet. that said, if we find out that's the case, that's a sophistication of operation that we have rarely seen among terror groups. we have only rarely seen that from isis including in the takedown of that russian aircraft last year. i don't think we'll find that in this case. but at this stage a day in, you can't say what will happen. you don't know and therefore, you've got to look at every avenue even if it's only a 1% possibility. >> if it were a mechanical problem, would they already have indications of that based on radar and other indicator findi? >> we don't know yet, wolf. that's a matter perhaps caused by a piece of wreckage one way or another. but most likely, it's going to have to get the definitive answer from the black boxes. it's a shame we don't have
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objectionabo the floatable boxes like in the military. that's a relatively easy solution to identify the boxes deep beneath the sea. just have to wait it out, unfortunately. it seems archaic to me. >> why is no terror group claiming responsibility, at least not yet? >> i think we've got a window. let's say, between one and four days before that question becomes more and more pertinent. with an organization like isis as we know not centrally controlled as al qaeda was, dispersed, they don't know operations or the operatives. these are independent players in things like the paris and belgium attacks who might receive training but go out and conduct an operation independently. i could see isis stepping back and saying, before we get out and say something, assuming this was an operation they conducted, let's be sure we know it's ours and what happened here. there's a secondary consideration. if somebody is going to come out and make a claim, they've got to
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be a little concerned what the reaction is going to be. the french air force, the u.k. air force, the americans coming down with loads of bombs on their heads. they've got to prepare for that eventuali eventuality. i am going to discount the fact i don't have a claim. i think that's a significant signal by that time. >> when you say a significant signal of what, let's say there's no terror organization that claimed responsibility by the weekend or even early next week. what does that say to you? >> the purpose of terror is to show an adversary what you can do to intimidate an adversaradv the egyptians and french and americans to stop runninglibya, iraq. if the adversary, washington, paris, london, don't know you conducted the attack, how can you claim you intimidated that target? you've got to say who it was. i think if we don't get a claim to say on monday, tuesday of next week, then there's a high
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likelihood of a terrorist incident, i'll start asking, why aren't they claiming it? >> that's a good question. thank you very much. we're standing by. donald trump is getting ready to address the national rifle association. you're looking at live pictures expected to lay out his position on gun control. will he knock hillary clinton in the process? we'll have live coverage of that and a whole lot more right after this.
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use gum® brand for healthy gums. soft-picks®. proxabrush® cleaners. flossers and dental floss. gum® brand. donald trump has said that the answer to gun violence is more weapons, not more gun control. getting ready to speak before a very friendly audience in the national rifle association's convention. our political reporter sarah murray is on the scene. what's trump's main message going into this nra event today? >> reporter: well, wolf, of course we have seen him over the last couple of weeks make a lot of overtures to conservatives to make sure to rally the republican base behind him. i think this will be a very friendly crowd for him. this is also an opportunity for
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him to set up a clear difference between him and hillary clinton, of course, the democratic front-runner as we shift more towards this general election contest. while hillary clinton in the past have listed nra among her enemies, donald trump has been very clear on the campaign trail he wants to stand up for second amendment rights and not looking for restrictions on gun control and that's the kind of message that will go over well with this crowd, wolf. >> his views on gun control and everyone is, of course, examining them closely. they seem to have changed over the years. back in 2000, he was in favor of a ban on assault weapons and longer waiting periods. will those past positions hurt him with gun rights supporters right now because clearly, his position has, as they say, evolved since then. >> reporter: that's a great question, wolf, because this is one of the many issues that donald trump's position has evolved on as he's become the republican presidential candidate but i think the mega phone over the course of the
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last year over his campaign events have completely sort of drowned out the fact he was not always as pro gun as he has been. he's much more pro gun now than in the past and he has made it clear this is an issue he's evolved on and surrounded himself with more conservative advisors who i think sort of shifted his narrative on the issue and get the sense with gun owners between donald trump and his sons, who are sportsmen, feel much more comfortable now and closer to what he actually believes. >> stand by with live coverage coming up once he starts speaking there in louisville at the nra convention. sarah murray on the scene as she always is. coming up next, donald trump also responding directly to hillary clinton's slamming his proposal for a muslim ban calling her response, and i'm quoting him now, dumb, saying it will only decrease terrorism in the united states. that's what he's saying. we're also waiting to hear from donald trump at the nra convention.
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divide over gun control playing out in the presidential race. donald trump is getting ready to address the national rifle association right now in louisville. hillary clinton appearing with mothers of gun violence victims tomorrow. let's discuss all of this and more. joining us, our cnn political commentator, ryan liz za and senior reporter, malika henderson. on the issue of guns between hillary clinton and donald trump, there's a huge gap. >> absolutely. and i think this will be the election where that gap is the widest that it's been in memory, frankly, since the last presidential election, the democratic party has been much more assertive on gun control. even obama in 2012 didn't focus on it as much as democrats do
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now. the president in the white house and hillary clinton. this was one of the defining issues between hillary clinton and bernie sanders in the primary and she was comfortable moving to the left on it. our husband, not an issue that democrats were confident on and the two parties like two other issues, much more polarized on it and nothing in the middle anymore. no more wiggling around the middle. both sides dug in and have clear views. >> this issue of guns, it's got a strong position and very different positions. >> you said the democrats didn't want to talk about it or would be fuzzy but that's not the way it is anymore. >> yesterday, at this time, chris cuomo did an important interview with hillary clinton. we watched it closely. she said donald trump is not qualified to be president of the united states. he responded earlier this morning on fox, i want to play a clip. >> it was one of the dumber statements i've ever heard. she's so ill equipped to be the president. if anything, it's just the
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opposite. because they're going to have to learn that we can't take this anymore. and they're going to have to turn in the people that are bombing the planes and they know who the people are and we're not going to find the people by just continuing to be so nice and so soft. and i have many muslim friends and they agree. >> he was responding to hillary clinton's assertion his temporary ban on muslims coming to the united states in effect makes him a recruiter for terrorists. >> she clearly went into that interview yesterday. it was a great interview about wanting to make news, asserting he was disqualified basically saying he was unqualified in saying that he was a loose cannon. i understand that bill clinton just responds to this idea. was asked if he thought that donald trump was unqualified. he said, listen, the voters will figure this out. >> the normal answer. which is the answer she gave a couple weeks ago to jake tapper but this time, minced no words. is he qualified to be president?
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no. >> exactly. and it made a lot of news. if you look at "the nightly news," her interview was paired out of paris as well and the plane incident. i thought it was a smart strategy. if you listen to a lot of republican voters and particularly who didn't vote for donald trump, one of their concerns had been sort of, whether or not they could concede donald trump in the white house and in that interview. she, for instance, tried to put donald trump in the situation room, not your situation room but the real situation room. saying essentially, he wouldn't know what to do or have the right temperament on what's going on in the situation room. >> this is very interesting, because up until that interview, hillary clinton's, the word that they were using to describe donald trump was risky, right? and some democrats have been reporting in the papers today saying, wait a second, well, there's, risk means you're taking a chance.
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maybe hillary clinton needs to go harder against donald trump and not just that he's risky but he's just purely not qualified to be in the white house and may be nuanced but i think that's a significant change that the clinton campaign landed on. the thing about trump still talking about the muslim ban. i've been doing a lot of interviews with republicans the last two weeks and no doubt the biggest story in republicans is the sort of consolidating but he's bringing people, he's c consolidating the party faster than people thought. >> the locations he's got a hit in order to bring those republicans on board. >> that's right. i mean, he's even reaching out to some conservative talk show hosts that haven't been too kind to him. they have seen republicans essentially do what in some ways, we thought they would do which came on board to a certain extent. i think there will be some holdout, particularly, moderate
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republicans or republican women as well. >> the ban on muslims comes up again in interviews that's the red line a lot of republicans wish he would not talk about and frankly, he would renounce and don't want to run on that. >> not just a suggestion. but it's a temporary ban. until they can figure out the terrorism. stand by. we're waiting to hear from donald trump. hoo he's going to be addressing the nra convention in louisville, kentucky. we'll have live coverage of that. also coming up, as the search for the wreckage of egyptair flight 804 continue, we continue to learn about the 66 lives lost. their stories next. ♪rock-a-bye stacy ♪running non-stop. ♪lifting up patients... ♪...changing their socks. ♪you're sore and you're beat ♪from all that you did. ♪for rest and relief ♪try sealy's hybrid. ♪so take a load off ♪and feel good as new. ♪cause sealy's support is perfect for you.♪
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the discover radioof debris from flight 804 is promising to investigators in the hope of finding some answers to what exactly happened. but for the family members of missing passengers and crew, it's nothing more unanimous a confirmation of their worst fear, that their loved ones are not coming home. the pilots of the flight have been identified, and the uncle of the copilot seen here on the right got quite emotional when
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talking to cnn earlier. >> he's absolutely very kind person. you never see a guy his age with his humanity and the sense of humor. he was about to get married. he's really ready in the relationship. and he just introduced me to s his -- >> so sorry. >> it's okay. >> heart goes out to that family. all the families. cnn's miguel marquez joins us now. you are learning more about those on flight 804, the egyptair flight. others on the flight are also now being identified. what can you tell us? >> look, the suddenness and the speed at which these accidents happen can be absolutely disorienting for these families, some of them still holding out hope their relatives may be alive. we are learning more about some of those individuals who were on
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the plane. richard osmond. he was a father, 40 years old, father to two young infant children. he was a geology from wales who worked in egypt. his brother spoke to us. >> richard was a very kind person, loving person, very focused. he was a workaholic. and he never deviated from the straight path. yeah, he was just, you know, a very admirable person. i think a lot of people admired him for his strength and values. >> now, also on board that plane was akmed halal, a 40-year-old director of a proctor and gamble facility in france. colleagues said this was a guy who was always smiling. he was headed to egypt to visit a sick father. a canyon who was living in cairo a mother of three kids -- the
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school where she worked -- they put up on their facebook page that she was a devoted and loving mother, always there offering a helping hand, and a pure smile. our hearts and prayers go out with her and her family. others that we're now learning about, pascal hess, he was a 51-year-old french citizen who was an independent photographer and took a lot of pictures of rocks and stones in the areas where he lived in france. certainly, we know the pilot and the entire crew. there were ten crew members on there, 56 passengers. two of those passengers were infants. wolf? >> what a sad, sad story, indeed. it's heart breaking just to hear the personal side of this, miguel. i know you are working this. is there an effort now to do something, to console those families, by egyptair, let's say. >> well, they are -- information is the best thing that the families want right now. they want -- they are headed to both airports in cairo and in
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paris trying to get information. some of the families overwhelmed because, one, there may be a language barrier, they don't understand what's happening there. so it's been a very, very difficult time. wolf? >> miguel, i'm sure it has been for everyone. our hearts go out to those families. thank you for joining us. that's it for me. the news continues next right here on cnn. ♪ here we go, top of the hour. you are watching cnn, i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me. we begin with breaking news on flight ms804, a total of 6 of people, including three young children are presumed dead. at the moment, in the mediterranean sea egyptair crew says they are recovering body parts, finding pieces of the plane, debris, we're told aircraft seats, suit cases. the scene is grim. it's floating in waters roughly 180 miles north of
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