i've never been to prison, except for this show. i've never been. which is again one of those weird things to say out loud. me going prison is how a person who lives in new york who's been there and never stepped on poop. doesn't mean you're good, just means you're lucky. you know what i'm saying? i feel there are two things true about prison. every man in this room has had the thought about who he would be in prison. i think every guy feels like i'd be the guy who ran the yard. i would be the guy who was in charge. come to me if you need everything. every guy thinks he would be that guy. when most think -- [ crying ] please. >> my name is w. kamau bell.

as a comedian i've made a living finding humor in the parts of america i don't understand. and now i'm challenging myself to dig deeper. i'm on a mission to reach out and experience all of the cultures and beliefs that add color to this crazy country. this is "the united shades of america." ah, the san francisco bay area. my home. when the producers told me we were shooting our next episode in the bay, i couldn't wait. so many stories to be told here. the tech industry is pushing working-class people out of san francisco. oakland is the birthplace of the black panthers. hell, bruce lee even lived here. well, the producers looked at me and said the four words no person ever wants to hear. you're going to prison. right across the bay, just 12 miles from san francisco, sits san quentin prison.

one of america's most famous and infamous prisons. this place has locked up the best of the worst. from serial killers to presidential assassins to maybe the worst husband of all time. but it has also been home to people you would not expect like country singer merle haggard, actor danny trejo and even stanley "tookie" williams, a convicted killer turned novelist and nobel peace prize nominee and children's book author, who the state still saw fit to execute. san quentin is a handful of american prisons who like a pop star or a-list celebrity for some reason rise to a weird iconic single name status like alcatraz, folsom, rahway, or britney. which means of course johnny cash recorded an album there. now, why in the world would i be going there? well, whether we like to think about it or not, there are human beings behind these walls. yes, some very bad ones. but then some who i've heard are

just people who have done bad things. some who just made mistakes. got caught up in the system. and i want to meet these men to find out what life is really like in prison. and see if they are being rehabilitated or are they just doomed to become a statistic in the growing business that is prison. more than any other prison in the state of california, san quentin is known for its cutting-edge rehabilitation programs. these programs are all about trying to cut down on the rate of recidivism. the national average rate of recidivism is 60%. that means 60% of paroled prisoners are returning within three years of being released. and that fact is only the beginning of what is a disturbing reality that is the prison system in this country. to get me started on my time here i'm meeting up with lieutenant sam robinson, who will be my tour guide. because yeah, not really looking to get lost in here. >> lieutenant sam robinson. >> kamau bell. >> nice to meet you.

>> i hear they call you the mayor of san quint. >> well, i may be called many things here, but officially, i'm the public officer of san quentin. >> thanks for bringing me in here. >> i'm glad you guys could come in here and experience this world. now i know when you step inside prison it is a different feeling than on the other side of the walls. >> this feels like a community college. >> it does. this is the adjustment center. this is where we say here at san quentin we house the worst of the worst in the state of california. >> this is the worst inmates in the state of california? >> this is the worst inmates in the state of california. >> i feel like i shouldn't be pointing. >> well, they're not coming out this way. >> yes, san quentin houses california's only death row inmates. yet it's actually the prison that california inmates want to get transferred to, because it has the highest number of rehab programs by far, and it is also a level 2 prison. see, prison security levels range from level 1, think like a martha stewart prison, to level 4, like a really frothy episode of "oz."

san quentin used to be a level 4, but in 1989 it was changed to a level 2. >> our inmate population is down below down there. >> i have to say, it's not what i was expecting. i thought we would turn the corner and there would be several gates and i would be strip-searched. you know what i mean? >> why would we strip search you? do we need to? >> no, you do not. let me be absolutely clear. sam, you do not. so this is what those of us who watch prison movies refer to as the yard. >> this is the yard at san quentin. we house 3,864 inmates at this prison. currently there are 731 guys on death row here at san quentin. >> is there anything i should be aware of or think about or know as i walk in here? >> i think just be yourself. >> okay. it's amazing how many times people give me that advice. >> so for a guy who's never walked inside of a prison, what does that feel like? >> it's funny. it feels like i'm walking into a neighborhood i'm unfamiliar with. >> nice comedy, brother. >> thank you, sir. now it feels great. >> now you know.

>> i'm looking around, i see different groups of people in different areas. are the areas broken up in any way? >> the areas are broken up in a way. just beyond the tennis court are primarily where the white guys are. there are a couple different areas for those guys. basketball court. that's primarily where all the african-americans are. there's a little area of land just behind us near the shack where the paisis -- >> the what? >> piesis. those individuals from mexico south. hispanic inmates. not california, so to say. then for thennos, which are northern hispanic. there's an area where they're at. so the yard is segregated based upon some of those underground rules. >> so it seems like the black guys got the basketball court. no surprise there. but if you're a white guy that wants to play basketball, is it just not recommended that you go over there? i mean, if a white guy's got a good jump shot, would they welcome you in there? >> you may feel that way and it may not be that these guys

have an issue with you. it's that the guys who look like you may have an issue with you coming over here. >> is there any effort to try to create that cross-pollination? >> there are many efforts. whether through educational opportunities. through programs we have. work assignments. we do try to bring our population together and we successfully put people next to each other who traditionally will not be next to each other. >> okay. sam wanted me to meet rashawn thomas, a writer for the award-winning prison newspaper "the san quentin news." >> rashawn, want to introduce you to someone, bro. >> hey, kamau bell. >> how you do, kamau bell? heard a lot about you. >> i just wanted to come say hello. i heard i should talk to you about what's going down here. >> i'm the sports editor. >> sport editor of the newspaper? >> yeah. >> can i ask how long are you in for and what's your sentence? >> i'm a lifer. got convicted of second-degree murder and attempted manslaughter. 55 to life sentence. i will probably never go home. >> 55 to life. >> 55 to life.

level 2 is a blessing. >> you consider this a blessing? >> this is. free college here at san quentin. meeting you. level 4 this wouldn't happen. >> level 4 they don't bring in unknown comedians to talk to you. >> what's up? >> that's the alarm here at the prison. when there's an alarm, as you can see, people no matter where they are here, everybody gets down on the ground. and they get down on the ground until our staff figures out what's going on. >> how often does that alarm go off? >> some days not at all. other days it might go off four or five times. but it's usually pretty short. like that. >> that means it's over? >> yeah. that means they found whatever and we're back in business. >> okay. there wasn't any reaction. everybody just sat down. there wasn't like a lot of -- >> good thing about san quentin the level 2 part of it especially, nothing hardly happens on this side. >> cool. >> so kamau. >> duck. >> duck. what would you say is the biggest surprise that would surprise people on the outside about being in san quentin? >> the name itself is not the characters it produces anymore. it actually produces positive

people now. >> yes. >> some people come here who couldn't read, write, spell. now you walk around and they're geniuses. >> you have cell phones so you need someone to walk around -- >> no doubt. >> you need someone whose nickname is wikipedia. to give you information. >> that keeps you aware. they make us think we are still part of some sort of humanity. >> yeah. >> because other than that we'd just be numbers on the yard. >> yeah. numbers on the yard. >> yeah. just numbers on the yard. >> what's your sentence? >> i got 7 to life. >> how long you been in here? >> i'm on my 40th year. >> seven to life and you are on your 40th year. >> 40th year, yeah. >> wow. >> same thing i say every morning i get up. wow. >> seven to life sounds like that's not -- >> you would think that it would be -- you'd be gone a long time. >> i thought you were going to say 6 1/2. it sounds unfair. sound like if you're able to live here -- >> right. because they call this rehabilitation. so if you've been rehabilitated,

then you get to a spot like this, then there should be some rewards at the end of the gate. >> yeah. >> but it don't seem to be that way. >> it should be incentive. you should get out sooner. if you can complete programs and get past the checkpoints and be rehabilitated. because once you are rehabilitated, you have the potential to be an asset to the society. america's a country that likes to give people second chances. but for some reason prisoners don't usually get that second chance. you get defined by the worst moment of your life. >> yeah. >> it was time for rashawn to take me to meet the staff at the "san quentin news." >> so this is where i work. >> with a press run of 13,000, the newspaper is distributed to 18 other prisons in california. and it is also one of the few papers in the world to be run by prisoners that can be read by people on the outside. >> everybody's got it for the meeting. this is where the magic happens. >> okay, all right. any inmate that wants to write for "san quentin news," all they have to do is come to the journalism guild and get lessons

on writing and they can start being assigned stories. >> so you just have to show a willingness to do it and also pick up the skills? >> yeah. >> okay. are these computers connected to the internet? >> heck no, i wish. we have berkeley students that do research for us. we write it, we come up with the ideas, but they come up with the information and all the support we need. >> so it's basically the old school internet. people. >> people. >> there's nothing about the way these guys are working that says this is a hobby or just a way it pass time. at first glance, seems like san quentin is taking this rehab thing seriously. >> all right. i like the way kamau comes to work. that's right. >> hey, kamau, you know any spirituals? ♪ swing low sweet chariot ♪ coming for to carry me home [ laughter ] if you have allergy congestion

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♪ today at san quentin i'm meeting back up with rashawn thomas who is on assignment for the prison newspaper. as we walk the yard, i see a lot of black faces. i wish i could say i was surprised. while only 13% of america's population is black, black people make up 40% of its prison population. and there's more bad news. due to oversentencing and unequal application of the law, 1 in 3 black men will go to prison at some time in their lives. >> so kamau, how did you get past the 1 of 3? >> i don't know. i feel sort of weird talking about it. >> you weren't poor?

you weren't a victim of crime? you didn't have some kid try to take your sneakers? >> no. if a kid tried to take my sneakers, i'd be like all right. i think a part of it was what's called conflict avoidance. that's why i became a comedian. you make people laugh to avoid the fight. >> that's a blessing. >> one of the things i keep hearing from the guys in prison is how they need to do things that make them feel normal. and for a lot of these dudes, playing sports is one of those things. >> kamau, have you ever seen baseball in prison? >> no, until this week i had never seen anything in prison. at san quentin, if you want to play baseball and you work hard and stay out of trouble, not only do you get to play but you get to play against outside teams. not teams of other prisoners, teams of regular folk. regular folk who voluntarily agree to let convicted felons hurl objects at them. >> how are you doing, sir? >> cleo. >> kamau. >> how you doing? >> good. >> he's one of the top players. this guy here. >> i wouldn't say the top.

but somebody who really loves the game with a passion. >> all right. somebody that loves the game with a passion. >> what does the baseball program do for you? >> the baseball gives me the opportunity to practice leadership, teamwork, confidence, hard work, dedication. and i think streets treated me wrong, but baseball always treated me right. >> wow. as we watched the team practice, i got curious why would rashawn work so hard at a rehab program when he knows that he has almost no chance of ever getting out of prison. >> why do you want to be a journalist? what does this do for you? >> it does a lot. first of all, my voice is the only thing still free. and having so much time, you feel like you're going to waste. there's nothing meaningful to do, except for writing. so this gives me something meaningful to do. >> finding a purpose in life is not exactly what we generally think of when we picture what inmates are doing in prison. you know what you think of. racially rioting. well, check this out. yoga is another one of the rehab

programs here. and phum singh, a practitioner and another writer for the "san quentin news" is letting me tag along while he gets the story. why do you believe it is important to do yoga? >> it helps me to relax. whatever bad energy i accumulate throughout the day. i am able to use that energy. >> mentally, what has it done? >> i'm more clear. focused. i'm ready for, you know, another challenge. it's good. >> next, me and foon head over to cell block c, where 420 men are housed, including foon. >> when i first came, i was actually scared. >> yeah. >> you know, i was like here's this little guy, you know. >> and so can i ask you how you ended up incarcerated? >> yes. so i'm in here for first-degree murder on a drive-by. >> so what exactly happened?

>> i had a nephew who was in school. who was getting picked on. so i went to go pick him up so he could get home safely without getting harassed. right when we were getting ready to take off, another car pulled up behind us, came out and rushed us. so i told him to drive the car. i was looking for anybody who resembled those guys. and as soon as the opportunity arrived, it was all innocent victims. >> so it wasn't even the guys you were looking for. >> wasn't even the guys. >> how many people were killed? >> i'm in here for one murder and four attempted murder. so 35 to life. >> okay. >> i've been 20 years now. >> okay. >> and it was a big tremendous amount of guilt that i hold. because my nephew is also here because of that. >> is he here in san quentin? >> he's here in san quentin. >> oh, wow. >> yeah. so me being the older one, i took him down this path.

>> the way a lot of us men define ourselves as men, if we feel like that's challenged, it can lead to destructive behavior. >> it can definitely lead to violence and destructive behavior. >> because we put so much on what it is to be a man. >> put way too much sometimes. you know what i mean? >> another thing that impressed me about the prisoners i've talked to so far is you've all clearly spent a lot of time talking about your issues. >> i think it's important to talk about it and it's important for us to take ownership about what we've done. it is part of you, who you are. however, with a better understanding, it doesn't have to be who you are today. oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula available. it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and... ...even deep wrinkles. "one week? that definitely works!" rapid wrinkle repair. and for dark spots, rapid tone repair.

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everyone in here says to do time you have to know how to kill time. and i'm not talking about a gang leader named time, i'm talking about killing time playing really overly complicated card games like pinochle, which turns out is another hole in my education. thanks, mom. i know it's slowing you down. >> how are you going to grow up black in america and not know how to play pinochle, man? >> i don't know. we missed that. >> is this a game common in prison? >> yes. >> and why is it this game? >> because it's fun. it's time-consuming. and a lot of people have nothing

better to do than to sit around and make time go by. >> so that's why this game is so complicated, because it takes time. can i ask how long are you in for and what's your sentence? >> i'm currently incarcerated right now under the three strike law. i committed a non-violence non-weapons involved, no physical injuries second-degree robbery. and you know the crazy thing, i got almost as much time as him. 30 years to life. >> can i ask you what the crime was, sir? >> first-degree murder. >> possession of a firearm. i'm doing double life. they termed me a career criminal when i had never been to juvenile hall, y.a. but i like this prison. >> out of the 35 state prisons in california this by far is the best as far as educational, self-help development programs, whereas at these other prisons the resources aren't available. the resources aren't available. programs aren't there. we worked our way down from those higher level security institutions by obeying the rules, staying out of trouble. programming.

doing what is necessary to get out of those places. >> but recognition about change it seems like that's a hard thing for people to swallow because they don't think that we can actually change. >> i keep coming back to the fact that i believe it's because as long as i sit here, it's a paycheck for someone. >> that's exactly what it is. you hit the nail on the head. yes, you did. >> when he made that statement, he told the truth. because a lifer is bread and butter for a whole lot of people that work for the partment of corrections. >> what they are talking about is the business of prison. the u.s. spends around $70 billion a year on prisons. to put that in perspective, look at this chart. since 1986, we have increased spending on higher education by only 5.6%. not great. we increased spending on kindergarten to high school by 69%. sounds pretty good, right? but we increased spending on

prisons by a whopping 141%. while we have our charts out, lets's look at another one. during that same time the prison population has grown from around 300,000 in 1980 to over 1.6 million prisoners today. >> what's not good here? >> you go up those stairs, it's totally different. >> what's up those stairs? >> going to north block. going to our housing. >> i'm glad you guys are telling me the truth. >> yes. >> when you go home, you google pinochle. [ laughter ] >> those guys mentioned the living conditions here. so i figured i would ask my new friend juan haines, managing editor at "the san quentin news," to give me a tour of his cell. it won't take long. >> this is the cell i'm at. >> okay. >> you can go in it. >> thank you. thank you. >> one of the things about the cell is -- you can secrecy as big as you are, two people can't

stand down here at the same time normal normally. like if i want to get down then my celly, he lays all the way there so he can get by. >> so you have to choreograph how to live in here. >> yeah. >> do you get to pick your roommate? >> technically, no. but the department understands that you have to. it's better if you are living with someone you want to live with? >> yes. you have to be able to deal with another person's personality in this close space. there is some term called cell slug. >> cell slug? >> yeah. that's a person who stays in his cell all the time and never leaves his cell so the other celly never gets any real privacy. >> i hate it bring it up. but we have to talk about it. i think that you know what i'm going to say. >> what's that? >> the toilet. >> yeah. >> when i go to the bathroom, i like privacy. i want to be alone. don't want anyone talking to me. >> most cellies negotiate that is if my celly has to use the rest room, i will just find something to do. he normally leaves at 6:30 in the morning so my regular system is hooked up so after 6:30, i'm good to go.

>> is it like when women live together their cycles also he align like -- >> yeah, you got it. yeah. o'. >> when you live with aw a guy you make sure you're on the same gastrointestinal cycle. >> and finding a celly. that's one of the things. will you leave. that's the cell slug. that's where the cell slug comes in. >> thank you. we can step on out of here. starting to get a little claustrophobic. >> one thing that has become clear to me in my short time here is that every inmate is open to talking about the reason they are in san quentin. and not in a gossipy way or a defensive way, but in a taking responsibility way. >> can i ask you, how did you end up in san quentin, sir? >> i was arrested in 1996 for a series of bank robberies if san diego. >> you don't seem like a bank robber. >> right. i robbed a bank before and the lady said, are you serious? >> how did you do it?

what was your process. >> the fbi gave me the moniker of the "brown bag bandit." >> you got a moniker, you got a name. >> so i still got the bag. no, it's not. it's not the real bag. >> okay, okay. >> so i have something like this, right, then i just write in like red marker, i have a bomb. put the money in the bag and she just opened it up, put in a bunch of 50s and 20s and then i walk out of the bank. >> who was the person that you were back then who decided to rob a bank? how did you get to that decision? how did you get to that place? >> it's a part of that process that i look into myself to try and figure that out. because i don't see myself as a bank robber. why was i doing that? one of the tellers that i robbed came in and testified against me. and was crying on the stand and told me that terrified her her whole life.

and right there, i was like, you know, it kind of hit me knowing that i just ruined this woman's life. that's because of what i did. >> yeah. >> but i couldn't process that the way i'm processing it right now. after my trial, conviction, received a sentence of originally 85 years to life. but then -- >> for bank robberies. >> yeah. and finally came to the realization when i came to prison what my impact is on this planet, and it wasn't all good. >> 85 years to life for bank robbery may sound reasonable to you. but not to me. even if it does sound good to you, how does juan sound? to me he sounds contrite, responsible and well, generally like a good dude who made the most of his time. and yet he's got no date for possible parole, even on the books.

at san quentin i've been lucky to meet some prisoners who are clearly doing everything they can to better themselves. but let's be honest, there's a whole other side to this place that frankly the administration won't let me see. but i'm meeting back up with lieutenant sam robinson, who's decided to give me a little peek of how the other side lives. >> where are we? >> we are in our small management yard complex. >> small management yard complex. >> small management yard. exactly. these are individual yards designed for people who have security concerns here within the prison. whether it is someone that's

predatorial or someone we've identified to have some kind of victimization type issues. we place them in an independent yard by themselves to ensure the safety of them and the rest of our population. many times guys who have issues with other people inside the prison, either they say in their cells themselves until the issues resolve themselves or they would go out and there would be drama out within the prison. >> is there anything in there with the inmate? >> what we generally do -- >> can we walk in one? >> sure. our mental health team -- >> and can we get out quickly? after we walk in. >> we can get out. yes, i'll assure that. >> okay. >> now generally in a yard like this, it'sor one person. we'll improvise. it will be you and i. the guy inside the cell, can't really stretch out like this and walk around so this gives you an opportunity to get some circulation going.

>> yes. >> as a person, i like to pace a lot. so this would be the place. >> could you come and pace. many times you see guys doing push-ups, burpies, talking to the guy that's in the yard just next to them. they may be mortal enemies. >> and the sun is blocked out. >> in this area, yeah. this was an afterthought. this yard doesn't exist here until five or ten years ago. >> all right. it's funny. a lot of the things i've seen in this prison are things i've seen in movies, portrayed in tv shows but this is something i've never seen before. >> this is prison on a different level. >> i want to go back to the prison on no level. >> looking at those cages reminds me that even though san quentin is a level 2 prison that this is still, well, a prison. and a lot of ideas we get from movies about prison, the movies get from prison. and san quentin has had its share of riots and violence.

which makes me wonder, who in the hell would want to work here? apparently this guy. he was busy. and had the kind of energy that said, if you go to far, mr. comedian, i'm throwing you in the hole. >> so d. robinson. co here? >> yes, co here. >> i assume by the costume. outfit. uniform. i'm nervous too. how long you been here? >> 22 years. >> 22 years in san quentin. >> 22 years in san quentin. all my time at san quentin. >> sounds like doing time at san quentin. >> yes. it is it loud. violence. you will see a lot of things that you won't necessarily see on the streets. you come here, you need to be prepared. adjust your mentality to maintain your sanity. >> is it hard to go home and let this all go? >> you definitely have to have an outlet. it's not easy but you've got to have one. >> having an outlet seems to be something for employees and prisoners alike.

one has gotten so good on the inside that it's gotten him attention on the outside. get ready to meet the hottest and interesting financial adviser. >> tell me your name. >> curtis carol but everyone calls me "wall street." >> because in prison there's government name and there's what people call you. why do they call you wall street? >> 11 or 12 years ago i had a financial literacy class at another institution i was at. >> how do you know all this stuff? >> my cell mate at the time used to read different publications to me. i didn't know how to read at the time. one day i went to get the sports page so he could read it to me, and i accidentally picked up the business section. when i picked it up to walk off another guy asked me, would you play the stock market? what's that? he said, oh, it is a place where

white people keep all of their money. when he told me that, first thing i thought was, okay. as i started to learn how to read, i started reading a lot of business publications. bill gates, warren buffett. like my thing at the time. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> developed on its own in a way. >> are you actually working with money? >> yes, investing money for myself, family, friends. >> how does that work with prison? i know there are rules and regulations around that. >> i'm not running a company. >> okay. >> i trade stocks. i get on the phone, call, talk to my family. say hey, buy this, buy that. and they buy and sell. >> now you're on tv and the newspaper and people are talking about you. i hear they named you the oracle of san quentin? >> yeah. all i've done is take what's available to me and i packaged that and made it where it is easy for guys to use and it's been a tool that's been very successful. >> can i ask you another question? >> yes. >> how did you end up in prison? >> i was tried and found guilty of first-degree murder, attempted robbery and gun possession and sentenced it 54 years to life in prison. >> 54 years to life? >> 54 years to life. >> how old were you?

>> 17 years old. >> 17. >> yeah. boy's life in prison. people see that and like wow, you're kids. but for me at this stage in my life, i work hard to move forward. right? >> are you making good money doing this even from prison? >> yes. making great money. >> okay. prison standards. millions. >> when the standard is 40 cents an hour? >> yeah, i'm making millions. >> if you don't mind me saying, this is kind of nerdy. >> you know, what is crazy, the nerdy ones are the wealthy ones. notice i didn't say rich, wealthy. >> wealthy is nerds. >> billions. >> have you ever heard of the word blurred? >> blurred. >> like blurred lines? >> no, like b-l-e-r-d. people use that, like a black nerd. >> oh, i like that! a black nerd. >> yeah. how do they avoid trips to the post office? stamps.com mail letters,

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♪

every man thinks he knows everything he needs to know about prison because he's seen the movie "shawshank redemption" 11 times. every time it's on tv, men just sit down, okay, let me keep studying. we think "shawshank redemption" is what it would be. we all cast ourselves in the characters. like, would i be morgan freeman? no, i'd be probably andy dufresne.

i'd go to prison, embezzle millions of dollars. go to prison. then break out and live on the beach with my best friend. living in mexico with my best friend. >> oh, you'd be andy dufresne? yeah. would you be sexually assaulted? everything but that. back in san quentin, juan told me there is a man i should meet who knows all about rehabilitation and accountability. inmate ron self. self is a decorated former marine and founder of his own program here at the prison. the u.s. has over 200,000 incarcerated veterans. challenges like ptsd, unemployment, and substance abuse contribute to these high numbers. ron's program helps them address tough issues in an environment of trust. it's called veterans healing veterans from the inside out. >> we were with juan and he said, are they going to talk to any of the veterans? and i was like, what do you mean veterans? it just didn't occur to me that of course everybody's in here. so we said who should we talk to? and you were the first name that came up. how many veterans are here in san quentin and what is their

experience? >> like 362 main line, gp, in blue, on the yard veterans and we have 51 on death row. but yeah, it's a large veterans population here. in the capacity of my job as the veterans liaison, for me it's a way to help reduce the number of veterans coming to prison and the number of suicides. >> so in a way you're sort of continuing your service to the country through your service here in san quentin? >> yes. >> how long have you been incarcerated? >> i came it prison in 1997. >> 1997. >> so i was in the marine corps from '87 to 1997. >> can i ask you what you're in prison for? >> conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder. >> talk to me how that guy goes from in the newspaper as a hero to a person that's incarcerated. >> we are all given the opportunity to defend this country at one time, and clearly by the fact that we came to prison we did something we shouldn't have. so we violated that trust.

and i think the nation as a whole has a right to expect better of me. >> and talk about why you feel it's important to give back. >> i think that i can speak for all veterans, we just want to give back and redeem ourselves and make up for whatever shame we brought to our branch of service, for me the marine corps. and i think for me san quentin prison is probably the best example for that. they make it possible for to us give back, and they'll help you. and that is something that is unprecedented that happens at this prison they'ven't seen at any other prison. >> do you have a possible parole date? >> i go to the board this december. >> how does this feel? >> this is strange. i want to get out so i can come back. >> you don't mean recidivists. you don't mean it that way. >> no. i found my calling in life. and that is doing these therapy programs with veterans and other just prisoners. >> one thing that's clear to me is that you are proud of your service and you are a veteran who still wants to serve his country. >> very much so. >> and i wish you good luck in december. >> i appreciate it.

>> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> now, i understand that the prisoners i'm meeting have had years to change from the people they once were. and while it may be easy for me to forgive them, i also understand why those directly affected by their crimes may not ever be able to. but there is a man here hoping to change the views of men and women of those in prison. father george williams who is a catholic priest and a man who has forgiveness in his job description. >> talk to people on the outside, they did this horrible thing that defines them, they should be in prison for as long as the cells have room for them. >> there are men who've been here since the '70s. i would say how many people watching this program are the same person they were in 1978? we all change. i think that the greatest tragedy in our culture is that we found a way to kind of throw people away and ignore them. and it goes against my values as a christian. but i think that it goes against our values as americans. these are our fellow citizens,

and there are so many of them. and disproportionately men of color. and it's wrong. i think really prison, nowadays should be a call to us to look at ourselves to search our souls and say we're doing something wrong here. we're not treating our brothers and sisters the right way. and we need to change. we need to live up to the ideals of what made us americans in the first place. >> it's powerful to hear that coming from a member of the cloth. and i don't think i do have a vote, but you have my vote as next pope. if that comes up. i'll stir up the black smoke for you.

during my time at san quentin i've met all sorts of people working hard to rehabilitate themselves. not for us on the outside but for themselves. and before i leave rashaun reminds me that there's one thing i've yet to experience. chow time. can't we just order in? >> so kamau, this is the chow hall. >> okay. >> now, there's two choices tonight. i usually get the religious meat alternative. which is hot dogs, turkey dogs. or they have chili mac on the main line. which do you prefer? >> i'll try the chili mac. >> okay. just grab a tray. >> okay. >> this is what i get. next meal is tomorrow at 5:00

a.m. 5:30 a.m. >> and it's 5:00 at night right now. >> this is 5:00 at night. >> this is your last meal of the day. >> this is my last meal of the day. >> 5:00 p.m. until dinner? there's days i don't eat lunch until 5:00 p.m. >> i don't even like the turkey hot dogs. let's see you try it, man. >> all right. look at that. >> i can do it. >> it's hot. this is carrots? >> how does that taste? >> what is on it? >> well, we would like to know, too. [ laughter ] >> it sort of feels like a lunch that like a middle school kid would eat. >> i come eat whatever they give me then i go back and make myself a soup. they have top ramen soup for 25 cents each. >> i feel like if you eat this, you'll be hungry in two hours. or if you don't eat this, you'll be hungry in 15 minutes.

we're in here in san quentin talking to people about all the programs and rehab. but the message i keep getting is this is a unique situation. with all the lack of programs at other prisons it's got to be -- you can fall into a bad cycle there just by virtue of the fact there's so much shit going down. >> you can get caught in riots. you can get caught in wanting help and needing help and not being able to get it. i found out that needing help that makes a big difference. >> you see the door is locked now, right? like when an officer in a few minutes, he will see that everything died down and says hey last call, everybody got to get up and leave. >> there's one catch, though. we can't leave until you eat all your food. >> that's not a -- >> that's a "san quentin news" rule. >> oh, i'm at the san quentin news table. >> yeah, i feel like you're one of us. >> i feel like one of you. i feel as much about this food as you guys do. >> 1, 2, 3!

>> game day for san quentin a's. and they are taking on a team from the bay area. looking at this scene it feels like any major league game in america. there are fans, security. half the players are criminals. >> what do you say to people who are sitting home right now watching us on a sunny day watching some baseball, enjoying ourselves, people who think that's not what prison is about or should be about. >> well what i would tell them is that first of all, everything you see on tv and the picture that's been painted about who prisoners are, we're more than that. that doesn't define who we are. that was a snapshot in our life. it was an obvious bad choice. and we're here paying our dues. we're human and we're here trying to do what is necessary to make an amends for the harm we committed in society. >> my time at san quentin has come to an end.

and i want to say good-bye to all the guys i met at the paper. >> what's up fellas? >> hey, man, good to see you. >> looks like this is our last day here. >> good to meet you, man. >> good to meet you, man. >> that's it. i got my clothing. yeah. to be real. thanks for being so open and honest and telling your stories. you know, you guys are doing great work in here. when you get out, i hope the door is open for you to do this great work elsewhere. >> hey, man. >> welcome back, brother. >> just see you in the yard like hey, guys. [ laughter ] >> definitely won't walk out the gate with it. >> all right. >> thanks, fellas. >> all right.

>> as i walked out the doors of san quentin, i realized i was actually sad to leave. by many people's definition, maybe even mine when i got here, these dudes are hardened criminals. but after spending time here, i see many of them as men who made mistakes. many of them when they were teenagers. men who will spend 20 years or more working hard to change who they were and to expand their own personal definitions of who they are now. like duck said, rehabilitation has led to rehabilitated. but for most of the guys i met, they aren't getting out. and if you feel good about that, then you need to rewind this show and watch it again. >> this is the old san quentin dungeon. dark room, ball and chain. >> i see graffiti in there. >> you see graffiti in there? >> is that from 1938? or is that db -- >> that's not from 1938, no. our construction workers occupy the dungeon for supplies,

equipment and -- >> they left their tools. >> some left a couple tags inside there, yeah. >> so that graffiti is not 1938 graffiti. >> no. >> i don't want people to be thinking that you are pulling an . 45ahead this hour, the thir day of searching for clues in the egyptair disaster and still no significant find. and hillary clinton accuses donald trump of pandering to the gun rlobby. and confronting the heroin epidemic in the united states. we'll tell you about a controversial proposal from one city mayor to address the problem. live from cnn world headquarters in atlanta, welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm george howell, cnn newsroom starts right now. >