community, but the president, wolf, spoke from the heart and he brought facts. he told you about the incidences of african-americans and hispanics versus the larger culture, and that as i said earlier that people of color are not making these things up, that they do, indeed, go on, and i would hope as he said that this would be a turning point in america. all of those people that are out there, who are trying to use pretzel logic and twist this into something that oh, you should be complying and you should be doing this and doing that, if you didn't have a criminal record, you need to check yourself because as the president said, the data shows, the facts show, not just emotion, that this happens to people of color more than any other ethnic group, and if you are indeed an american of good conscience, folks of good conscience, then you need to dig within yourself and stop trying to come up with excuses to make excuses for police officers and

for bad behavior and maybe for your own unrecognized racism or bias within you. this is an american problem. black people are americans, and we make up this country. and we are dealing with issues that we are telling you need to be corrected in this country, and as americans we would hope that you would come along with us to help us and not fight against us because it's no good. the definition of insanity is thinking that you're going have a different outcome by doing the same thing. clearly, this is not working. it must be changed. >> strong words from don lemon. don will have a lot more later tonight, as well. our special coverage will continue. right now erin burnett "out front" starts. this is cnn breaking news. good evening. i'm erin burnett. the breaking news tonight. outrage in america.

the president of the united states just making an extraordinary statement landing overseas in europe about two police shootings in this country within 24 hours. in minnesota and louisiana, and as i said an extraordinary statement. let me just play the president for you. >> when incidents like this occur there's a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels as if because of the color of their skin they are not being treated the same, and that hurts, and that should trouble all of us. this is not just a black issue. it's not just a hispanic issue. this is an american issue that we should all care about. all fair-minded people should be

concern concerned. >> all right. joining me now to talk about this extraordinary statement from the president our contributor ann jones, bakari sellers and david gergen. van, your reaction? >> i was very, very proud of the president. you know, i think especially the video of the young woman with her fiance dying next to her. many of us have built up almost an immune system over the past couple of years and almost like a fatigue with this, and this video just shattered all of that. i've seen people walking around looking like zombies and african-americans and people who care about the community saying this is a nightmare for any black parent. you tell your kids, look, make sure your car is registered. his car was registered. make sure you have your license. he had his license. make sure if they pull you over, you pull over. if you have a gun, make sure it's -- everything you tell your kids to do, this young man did.

he wasn't arrested. he didn't have an overdue library book and he winds up dead in this way, and i just think that you have to be able now to say something is desperately wrong in the country where somebody who is doing everything right, not just in that moment, but in their life can wind up dead that way. i was proud of the president speaking with that pain. not just with african-americans today, people across the country are just shocked. >> bakari, what's your reaction? do you share that pride? did he do this the right way? >> i definitely share that pride. i echo many of the same se sentiments that van jones said. i couldn't sleep, and i know most of my peers couldn't sleep because this happened again and you get so weary, tired and broken because it happens over and over and over again and one of the first people i texted today was van jones and ben gelis. i don't know what to do. i'm at a complete loss and there is no policy fix for what

happened in minnesota. there is no policy fix for that. i have a great deal of respect for men and women who are in law enforcement, and i grieve every time one of them is gunned down, but i can also say black lives matter because we're having to question the value of black lives right now. african-americans in this country do not get the benefit of their humanity and that is the most troublesome thing that we're facing today. let me say one last thing about the president. i disagree with him on one point and one thing alone. it's not a trust issue. this is a stop killing us issue. >> so just expound on that a little bit more, bakari. what are you saying when you say that? stop killing us issue. >> we've seen this too much. whether or not you have a broken taillight, whether or not you made an illegal turn, whether or not you're selling loosy

cigarettes and whether or not you're selling cds, whether or not you paid child support, you are literally getting death sentences in this country for being african-american and you've seen people that have flown gyrocopters and landed on the lawn of the white house. dylann roof who police knew had a gun, and murdered nine people and got the benefit of their humanity. i trust law enforcement to a certain degree, but my question is, can you please stop killing us? >> van jones, you come from a family of law enforcement and it's a point you've made many times as we, unfortunately have had this conversation many times and you make that point and i think it's a significant one because you say that as a black man. >> my dad wases a cop in the military. my uncle just retired i guess now a year ago from the memphis city police department, milton douglas jones, he always wants me to make sure i give him his

full name. i get it. i never wanted my uncle to be, you know, one of those flag-draped coffins and part of why bakari's generation in particular is so upset is because we don't show it on the air. the internet today is flooded with videos of white men attacking police with hatchets, with their fists, and police going above and beyond the call of duty to apprehend them alive and it just seems like there's this idea, if you're a white guy. maybe you're just a drunk frat boy. i'm not going to kill you, and you're just acting out, but if you're a black man, no matter what you're doing, you might be a threat. >> david gergen, what i think is important in this speech and i know you used the word eloquent to describe the comments that the president just made. he was very careful to say one thing that is incredibly significant. when people say black lives matter, it doesn't mean that blue lives don't matter which was very significant because there are many who do try to say

well, if you're going to say black lives matter, by definition you're taking a side and you're only on the side of the black man taking the shot. you're only on the side of the police. he's making it very clear that that's not what he's saying. >> i felt, erin, that the president tonight was particularly eloquent, and i thought he was balanced, and too often in these statements people do come down on one side or the other, argue a particular point of view when, in fact, the only way reel get real solutions is if whites and blacks work together on these issues. as a white, i feel totally inadequate to understand and fully appreciate the black experience, and i feel, as i know a great many whites feel about how can we get beyond the incidents and get to action and get to progress? i mean, was there one thing that i thought was a short coming in

the president's speech which i think did was eloquent and heartfelt, and he made an effort to move the conversation forward with everybody, and what i hope he'll do when he comes back is -- is not let this issue drop. too often gun control, for example, becomes a sporadic or spasm rather than a real, continuing effort, but to bring leaders in from all points of view to the white house and renew the conversation to figure out what steps can be taken? some short term and some will require long-term commitment on inequalities, but this is a serious, serious issue, and i think the president spoke extraordinarily well and i'm glad he spoke the way he did, and i thought van and bakari captured much of what i believe. i would ask them, what can we do together so we can get beyond these divides? >> well --

>> van, what does the president do now, right? he gives this eloquent comments when he lands. we all remember, of course, after the trayvon martin shooting when he said, if i had a son he would look like trayvon. after subsequent shootings he was never so personal for his remarks and very careful to wait for the system, the legal system to render its verdict. he's never been that personal again and it seems in this case he's sort of in between the two. what does he do next? >> i think a couple of things. first of all, let's not forget this young generation of african-americans is actually squeezed between some police violence, yes, but also street violence. the vast majority of african-americans when you're talking about funerals is african-americans that have been killed by other african-americans and you have street violence crushing this generation. we have to be honest about these factors. one thing that could help on the police side. it seems like we can't get easily the officers once they've

done something bad, disciplined, demoted, fired, prosecuted, but why don't we start off on the front end and have better screening. we need to make sure every officer hired is screened psychologically, are they sociopa sociopathic? do they have deep bias? rather than focus on the firing, we should focus the hiring and do a much better job of making sure. you can't train people if they're deeply biased, and we are not screening across this country for sociopathic behavior, for gender bias and gender bias and maybe we can come together on that and at least make sure that the people coming in are coming in with their hearts in the right place. >> if i may, erin -- >> go ahead, bakari. >> no, i was going to say we can talk about demilitarization, de-escalation. we can talk about training on implicit biases, but when you look at what happened on minnesota, that's what i'm trying to wrap my head around. you have someone who did everything they were supposed to do correctly and still ended up being carried out in a body bag.

so, i mean, this is the difficult part. this is difficult for me and my generation to juxtapose. when you do everything the country materiels you to do and you still end up on the wrong side of things. i do think we have to do somes very serious sensitivity training and things of that nature. we have to talk about the way that these investigations are handled because of what we have seen throughout the country is that officers, they oftentimes get indicted and not untimes get found guilty like a ten-year misdemeanor, these things happen, but we have to begin to talk about something that's here. we don't have a -- we have a heart problem in this country. we don't necessarily have a real training problem, per se. we have to deal with the hard issues we have first. >> all right. well, thanks to all of you. you will be with me through the hour as we continue to cover this because the president's words coming on the back of what's fair to describe as fury across much of the country.

live pictures now of demonstrators on the streets of new york. there they are protesting the shooting deaths of both of the black men killed by police. both of the shootings happening within 24 hours, and we have new details breaking tonight about the shooting of the black man in louisiana. we are learning more about the specific officers involved tonight, and then the fbi director grilled about hillary clinton's emails for hours and hours today. did his testimony help her or not? [burke] at farmers,we've seen almost everything,

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working my canister off to clean and shine... and give proven protection... against fading and aging. he won't use those copycat wipes. hi...doing anything later? the quiet type. i like that. armor all original protectant. don't be dull. breaking news. outrage in america this evening. protests growing at this hour from st. paul to chicago to new york. fury over two black men killed by police in just two days. the latest a 32-year-old philando castile shot and killed by a minnesota police officer during a traffic stop. the man's fiance says he was reaching for his i.d. when the officer opened fire and then his

if i san a began recording what happened next and streaming this live on facebook. we want to warn you the video you're about to see is very graphic and it may be disturbing to watch, but it is important to see. >> we got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back and the police -- he's covered. [ bleep ] he's licensed to carry. he was trying to get out his i.d. and his wallet out of his pocket and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm. >> i mean, it is horrific. you see him moving and groaning. those are obviously his dying moments. she wanted that to be seen by all of you, though, that was why she was broadcasting it live for the world to see. that incident happening less than 24 hours after another black man was shot and killed by

police. that's alton sterling. he was selling cds outside a baton rouge, louisiana, convenience store. [ bleep ]. [ gunshots ] [ bleep ]. >> get on the ground! >> i want to go to sarah ganam now. she is with protesters in new york city. sarah, what are you hearing from them? [ cheering ] >> reporter: hi, erin. these protesters have been out here for almost two hours now. they started in union square as a rally. a couple of hundred people has turned into what i would estimate to be more than a thousand out here marching and

chanting the entire time and much more than 20 blocks in new york city. >> obviously, we're having a bit of a transmission issue there. we'll get back to sara just as soon as we can. the justice department is standing by and it will provide assistance if minnesota investigators need it. jim grass is out front in st. paul, minnesota, with more on that horrific shooting opinion. >> reporter: philando castile and his fiance diamond reynolds pulled over for a broken taillight. reynolds streamed live what happened next live on facebook. >> stay with me. we got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back and the police -- he's -- he's covered. he killed [ bleep ] my boyfriend. he's licensed to carry, and he was trying to get out his i.d. and his wallet out of his pocket and he let the officer know that

he was -- he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm. >> as the 32-year-old castile lay dieing from multiple gunshot wounds, the officer who shot him keeps his weapon pointed through the car window. reynolds' 4-year-old daughter watched it all from the backseat. we're waiting for him -- >> i will, sir. no worries. i will. he just shot his arm off. we got pulled over on larpinner. >> told him not to reach for it! i told him to get his arm out. >> >> you told him to get his license. >> please don't tell me he's dead. please don't it will me my boyfriend went like that. >> reynolds is cuffed and put behind of a patrol car. at one point, she breaks down and comforted by her daughter. [ screaming ] >> it's okay, i'm right here with you!

[ crying ] >> after being questioned by police, reynolds spoke at a rally and criticized the responding officers. >> they instantly rushed their colleague off to the side where they comforted him, where he began to moan and cry, oh, my god, i can't believe this. >> reporter: just one day after another black man, alton sterling was shot to death by police in baton rouge, louisiana, people took to the streets and minnesota's governor called for a federal investigation into the shooting. >> would this have happened if those passenger, the driver or the passenger were white? i don't think it would have. so i'm forced to confront and all of us in minnesota are forced to confront this kind of racism exists. >> reporter: speaking to cnn earlier today castile's mother valerie was quietly outraged. >> we are being hunted every day. it's a silent war against

african-american people as a whole. >> and valerie castile just spoke at a vigil where philando castile worked for three years at this school behind me. she's not a talker and she said she needed to speak out and something needs to change. in a strong showing of solidarity the entire castile family is actually leading this crowd of hundreds of protesters towards the governor's mansion where they're going to meet with more protesters and, erin, it's important to know among this group are children, elementary school, boys and girls who knew mr. phil from the lunchroom. they know they're never going to see him again. >> thank you very much. >> up front now, harry howe is a former nypd detective and van jones is, of course, back with us. let me start with you, paul. you have defended officers in

the past, and obviously amidst the broader, macro issue we're talking about in this country here there is a deep need to find out exactly what happened in this specific case and what happened wrong? if the officer claims, as he does that castile appeared to be reaching for his weapon, does the officer have the right to protect himself as he did? >> this is not a case of an officer protecting himself. what did this gentleman do wrong? what did he do right? it seems to me that we are reaching a point in our society where no matter what we do, if we follow the instructions, they kill us. if we don't follow the instructions, they kill us. if we raise our voice, they kill us. if we're respectful, they kill us. this is a pattern that is -- is -- is spilling over that has to be addressed, and i'm not sure if it can be addressed in any policy. this is a societal problem that

we need to address and take it straight on for what it's worth. this is just racism. >> van? racism? >> well, it definitely seems that way. i mean, part of what is so remarkable, you know, to be fair, you don't see on the video exactly what happens. you don't see him pulling the gun or him following instructions or not following instruction, but she is so credible. it is so remarkable that she's literally narrating what's happened, and i think that any jury or -- i think the reason the world is outraged is because of her credibility and the entire time she's saying sir, sir, sir. she's trying to be respectful and trying to be composed in the most horrific moment in anyone's life or in the worst nightmare and she would not be the kind of person that could be making up something there and that's why people feel like -- and this police officer seems completely incredible the way he's acting and that's, i think, why people have come to this conclusion that something terrible happened

there. >> now, harry, she is calm and collected in the part of the video that we just heard. look, when she started recording this it was after, obviously, the shot. she says he was putting his hands up when he was shot and van says comes across calm, collected, very credible, but you don't believe that her version is true? >> well, i'll tell you what, what we have to do -- what we have to do is that her version has got to be checked out, all right? the video shows exactly her version of the events that occurred. i want to hear the officer's version of events that occurred and that video was basically useless. that video just shows you how upset the officer was and it gives you her version. people are thinking that looking at that video that's how the crime was committed, all right? not only that, but the fact that

everybody is rushing to judgment here. there is no evidence to indicate that this was a racial incident at all, but everybody is making it a racial incident because it falls into their narrative. there is no evidence of that, and i -- and people who say there is, i want to see what their evidence is. >> this is my evidence. you want to hear the evidence? i'll tell you the evidence. >> i want to hear it. >> the evidence is this, have you heard what the president said? we are stopped three times more. we are -- >> no, i'm talking about this case. i'm talking about this case! >> excuse me, sir! >> let me speak! >> so we can get him in, then you can respond, harry. >> this case! >> let me tell you about this case, we have another black man that's dead for no reason. >> who had a gun? >> for no reason. >> who had a gun. you're a criminal defense attorney. i expect that. the man had a gun. >> let me ask you this, this is the problem that i see, and this is something that we're going have to confront individuals who

just do not want to accept that there are racist and racial components to these cases and the fact of the matter is that a police officer would not have approached this gentleman and this young lady if they would have been of a different hue. if they were white this situation would have never occurred and so don't tell me that race does not take a place in this case! you're -- you're not living on the same planet that we are. >> no. you're not living -- you're making an assumption and that's the whole thing here. you're making an assumption because it is part of your narrative. >> my narrative? >> sir, i have represented -- >> harry! harry! hold on one second, i know we have a delay, but let me ask you this question. harry, hold on. the point that paul make, that black men are stopped three times more often than white men, the point that the governor of minnesota said, this death would not have happened that castile was white. don't you have to admit that the situation may not have presented itself at the very beginning at

the traffic stop if he had not been black? >> how do you know that? how do you know that? >> i'm not saying i know it. isn't it a fair question? how can you say race played no role? >> it's not a fair question. how can you say that? it's not a fair question. that vehicle was stopped because of a broken taillight, all right? that's why the vehicle was stopped. >> nonetheless, it's true that white people can drive with a broken taillight and sometimes not be stopped. >> i have pulled many of them over and i've given white people sermons for the same, exact thing. lots of white people get summonses every day. >> let me just say a few things. first of all, i think harry has a point which is that all of the facts are not yet in. we don't know exactly what happened and so far what we've seen is a very powerful piece of video evidence from one side. i think he's right that we need

to expect that there may be some -- some surprises down the road, but i think, harry, where i'm disappointed in what you're saying, the statistics don't lie -- >> you always are. >> the statistics don't lie about the excessive numbers of stops. let's not talk about traffic stop. let's talk about something tough like drugs. they don't take more than white, but we wind up getting arrested, not 50% more. we wind up going to prison six times more because there seems to be some institutional bias. doesn't that bother you? >> that doesn't show any institutional by a van jones. i have gone to trial in many cases and it is very hard to go to prison no matter what color your skin is. it is very hard to go to prison. i've seen many cases like that. i've worked in some of the inner cities here in new york city, and i see a lot of black defendants walk all the time.

>> this is the problem. >> let me say this, maybe you should travel down to 100 center street at 9:30 in the morning. maybe you should travel down to the front of the queens criminal courts building. >> been there. >> have you noticed anything about those appearances? there's very few white people in those lines that get into those criminal court buildings. do you know why? do you know why, sir? because they are arrested -- >> i always do. >> they are arrested three times as much. >> minorities commit the majority of crimes in new york city and that is why you see that and the statistics spare that out and you do not want to face that. >> that's because that's where the police go. believe me, they arrest -- listen, if you go -- >> excuse me, sir! go down to wall street and see the brokers outside smoking joints and they're not being arrested. there's no undercover buys on broad street. >> they're not being arrested in harlem or brooklyn. they stopped that a long time

ago. i think you need to wake up. >> van? van? >> there is this perception, it's not just harry, a lot of people have this perception that african-americans are just so much more criminal and they might say it's cultural and some people say it might be genetic and they're so much more criminal. i of the to say personally -- >> it's not just -- >> let me finish, sir. i went to yale law school. i saw many, many more people doing drugs at yale law school than i have ever seen at any housing project or black community. i saw more undergraduates at yale doing drugs. it was crazy. i never saw a single arrest on those campuses. if you went to new haven you would think all of the poor black people are the criminals and all of the rich kids that go to yale are not, but there is a bias in enforcement that is a part of this driver and i think we have to be very honest about that in america. >> that's not true. that's not true. >> that's not true. >> you have no statistics that bear that out at all.

>> you said nobody was arrested at harvard? >> i just read about a case where a bunch of drug dealers at an ivy league school were arrested for dealing drugs and someone smoking a joint down the street, right? somebody smoking a joint in the street. >> nobody gets arrested for that anymore no matter where you are. >> according to you, the series of killings that have happened systematically year after year after year just happened -- >> systematically? >> just happen by chance, they all happen to be black. is that your position, sir? i don't know about these cases you're talking about. tell me the cases you're talking about. >> where do you want me to start? you want me to start? >> you want me to start with miss bumpers. >> do you remember her? how about -- let's -- you want to go down the list? trayvon martin. >> mr. rice? how many do you want us to name? >> trayvon martin attacked

somebody and he got killed for it. >> how many cases do we have to name. >> he was cleared, right? >> how many -- how many -- >> do you hear yourself? you're -- you're not living in a reality. let me ask you a question, sir. >> you're not living in reality! >> can i ask you a question? you know, i have to explain -- excuse me, i have to explain to my 4-year-old child how he has to deal with police officers for fear that he may be a victim, and i can almost guarantee -- >> i explain the same thing to my nephew, all right? anybody. any parent should say when a police officer stops you, you should comply with a police officer. >> on that point from what the president said and what paul just said, though, don't you admit that it is impossible for you or your nephew assuming that he is white, to truly understand what it is like to be black when you are dealing with police?

do you acknowledge that there is a difference? >> i don't know. i can't read minds. i don't know. i can't tell you that. i'm not black. i can't tell you that. i have worked in a lot of the bad areas here in new york city, all right? you know, i've tried to help as many people as i can. listen, i have put my life and many police officers put their lives on the line for minorities every day and to say that police departments are systematically racist is a ridiculous statement. >> erin, the problem is not the police department. it's a societal problem. i think we have a society where african-americans or people of color are viewed as a threat and as long as we are viewed as -- >> no, they're not. >> excuse me, sir. >> i never viewed an african-american as a threat at all. never unless they made some kind of threat. >> except for you, harry. >> except for you. >> and a couple other thousand

police officers i know. >> you didn't hear what i said. >> [ indiscernible ] >> he can finish his point, harry. then you can respond. >> this is not a police department problem. i think the majority of all police are good police. i think a majority of police officers want to do the right thing, and i also understand that they want to get home at night, but this is not a police issue. this is a society issue, and the problem is that we have a society in which they are threatened or fear for the african-american or person of color, and that goes to police officers that are black -- excuse me, sir. that goes for police officers that are black, white, hispanic or asian, and -- and it's an issue that we'll have to deal with. >> let harry respond because i said he could and then van. >> i don't know any police officer -- i don't know any police officer who i have worked with in the 25 years and now

that is afraid of an african-american because he's an african-american or because he's black. >> can i say something? >> maybe you do. then maybe you should not be a police officer. >> here's what i think is interesting. if you're home trying to watch this and understand this, there's something called unconscious bias, and it turns out it's not -- >> that's a new narrative. you guys made that up recently in the last six months. >> harry, i let you talk. here's the thing, you are so rude and interruptive that you are making my point. this relationship between police officers and african-americans, no matter how respectful we are, this is the way that it goes down even on national television so let me finish. there is something that's being proven by science and subconscious bias. it turns out that people, even subconsciously see women and men differently. even subconsciously see

african-americans differently. may register seeing an african-american face as a threat. it's not a conscious thing. all of us don't want to be that way, but you can show it's a problem. maybe there's some subconscious bias, we can work together, but if we can pretend that every single police officer is an angel or a saint that has never had a single, bad, wayward thought we'll never get anywhere. >> i will leave it there, thank you for a very provocative and frankly, very honest conversation and i appreciate it and i know the viewers do, as well. the police officers that were involved in the shooting of a man in louisiana and the fbi director with a four-hour testimony. we'll be right back.

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breaking news. protests being held in cities across this country after two deadly police-involved shootings were caught on camera, that includes baton rouge, louisiana when police killed a man selling music outside a convenience store. a source now confirming to cnn that officers pulled a gun from alton sterling's body.

we do now know that that happened. video of the killing show sterling's hans were empty as he was tackled to the ground and pinned down by both officers and five shots were fired and then they removed the gun. those officers are now on administrative leave. martin savidge. the details of what happened are so crucial. you have details about these specific officers involved. what do you know? >> reporter: the two officers are howie lake and blane salamoni and we have recovered from the freedom of information over 600 pages of do you means and basically their personnel file. howie lake, the officer that was involved has been involved in the shooting of another person. it happened in december 2014. he was with other baton rouge police officers chasing a suspect. that suspect according to these records opened fire and he returned fire and that suspect survived. also we find out that both of these men have suffered from use of force complaints.

several of them, however, i have to point out if you're a cop on a beat today it's rare that you wouldn't have a use of force complaint filed by someone you take into custody. no disciplinary action was taken against either man. from blane salamoni he comes from a family that has dedicated itself to law enforcement and public service. his wife is emt of the year here in baton rouge. his mother is a retired police officer from the baton rouge police force. his father is on the command staff several years ago and was being considered as a possibility of a chief of police. it you think it might earn him favorite positioning in this investigation, remember, the feds are the ones taking the lead, erin. >> now, martin. it's pretty incredible to learn more about these individuals because it is going to be so crucial their side of the story. in terms of how this started. we've now learned the 911 call that came in about the shooting came from a homeless man. what made him make that actual

call? the video comes from the police cam, but he made the call. >> reporter: right. the call is what started it all, and the reason according to the sources that we have with the investigation, cnn's nick valencia learned that the homeless man allegedly had gone to mr. sterling several times that evening apparently wanting money and sterling said he had enough of it and according to this person lifted his shirt to reveal the gun. it was later that the homeless man who had a cell phone called the authorities and that's what began the tragic chain of events, erin? >> martin savidge, thank you very much. these officers' actions now under incredible scrutiny, but what goes through the mind of a police officer when they respond to an incident like this? miguel marquez is out front. [ bleep ]. >> reporter: the video, shocking, but also revealing details of what happened early tuesday morning in baton rouge, louisiana. >> anything that could have went

wrong did go wrong in this particular scenario. >> reporter: darren porcher, 20 years with the nypd with the use of force and internal affairs says despite having limited video of alton sterling's death, it was clear there were problems from the start particularly in that police were responding to a call about a man with a gun. they should have called for backup and not tried to make an arrest themselves. >> what i draw from this is the use of a firearm is questionable in this particular scenario. >> reporter: questionable because it's unclear if the 37-year-old actually reached for his gun that was in his right pocket. from a second angle, you can see sterling's left arm pinned down by police, but his right arm? >> right now we have the deceased -- his hand is being held by one of the other officers, however, a split second later it disappears. >> reporter: less than two seconds after alton sterling's right hand disappears, two

shots, then three more. [ gunshots ] >> this is something that happens in a split second. i question the use of force in this video. >> reporter: he says we still don't know what led up to the confrontation between police and alton sterling or why the officers felt it necessary to confront sterling rather than wait for backup. >> i told him to get his hand out! >> similar question, 2,000 miles away in falcon heights, minnesota. the video streaming live on facebook wednesday evening. >> we are waiting -- >> i will, sir. no worries. i will. >> a loved one has just been shot by police. the officer is on one side. his adrenaline is through the roof, but this lady is patient. she's reporting this information over cell phone. the officer should be the avid professional, not the witness. >> he was just getting his license and registration, sir. >> diamond reynolds calmly explains to the officer

repeating three times in exact terms during the nine-minute video that her boyfriend philando castile had a permit to carry a weapon, had told the officer that and said he was reaching for his wallet. >> i believe her statements are credible. here we have a licensed gun owner, a licensed gun owner goes through a course in how to introduce the documentation ask your firearms if stopped by police. >> reporter: we're down at union square in new york where a second bunch of protesters about several hundred of them are rallying for justice and equality and they're marching south in manhattan and they will perhaps join the other group that's marched north. two things to keep in mind, though, with the two different shootings that we've had over the last couple of days, in baton rouge, there were body-worn cameras on police that will tell us more about the confrontation that led up to mr. sterling's death, but in minnesota there were no body cameras on those police.

it will make an investigation of how this went from a taillight out to a deadly shooting much more difficult to solve. erin? >> all right. thank you very much, miguel. next, the fbi director grilled over hillary clinton emails for hours and hours today. republicans are saying this is not over.

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breaking news. the fbi director defending his decision not to charge hillary clinton with a crime for her use of a private email server while she was secretary of state. he insisted in four and a half hours of testimony before congress that he didn't bow to political pressure. >> i did not coordinate that with anyone. the white house, the department of justice, nobody outside the fbi family had any idea what i was about to say. i say that under oath. i stand by that. >> the clinton campaign says that the case is officially closed. in a statement saying the director's explan station shut the door on any remaining conspiracy theories once and for all. while the republicans may try to keep this issue alive, that will only backfire. there is a lot of bad news in

this for clinton and joe johns is out front. >> mystified and confused. >> reporter: fbi director james comey under fire from republicans vigorously defending the agency's decision not to recommend charges against hillary clinton over her handling of classified information on her private email server. >> i think she was extremely careless. i think she was negligent and that i could establish. what we can't establish is that she acted with the necessary criminal intent. >> republicans trying to get comey to draw first blood. >> so if hillary clinton or if anybody had work said at the fbi under this fact pattern, what would you do to that person? >> there would be a security review and an adjudication of their suitability and a range of discipline could be imposed from termination to reprimand and in between suspensions, loss of clearance. >> reporter: comey was the witness, but clinton was the focus. comey's answers were met with stares and shaking heads from the republican committee members

who picked apart clinton's multiple public assertions that comey had found to be false. >> secretary clinton said i did not email any classified material to anyone on my email and there is no classified material. was that true? >> there was classified material emailed. >> secretary clinton said she used just one device. was that true? >> she used multiple devices during the four years of her term as secretary of state. >> reporter: but comey stood his ground on whether clinton broke the law. >> we have no basis to conclude she lied to the fbi. the recommendation was made the way you would want it to be by people who didn't give a hoot about politics. >> reporter: republicans suggested they would keep the heat on the democratic candidate opening the door to more investigations. >> did the fbi investigate her statements under oath on this topic? >> not to my knowledge. i don't think there's been a referral from congress. >> you'll have one. you'll have one in the next few hours. >> reporter: democrats came to comey's defense. >> if prosecutor his gone

forward, they would have been holding the secretary to a different standard from anyone else. i firmly believe that your decision was not based on convenience, but on conviction. >> reporter: in today's hearing we also got the fbi director's response to repeated claims by republicans that hillary clinton should have been charged under a statute that makes it a serious crime to use gross negligence in the handling of government information. comey said there's only been one other such case brought by federal prosecutors in the last century and that no reasonable prosecutor would have done it this time. erin? >> all right. joe johns, thank you very much. david gergen is back with me now. you heard comey today, four and a half hours standing by that she didn't break the law. this issue of intent, but he couldn't say she didn't lie and that obviously could be very crucial. is this a win for her or not? >> listen, i think this is one

man's opinion, but my sense was that director comey held both sides. i think he made a compelling case why she should not be prosecuted and no reasonable prosecutor would go forward based on these facts. at the same time, he made it clear if this had occurred by one of his employees had done t what she did and there would be severe sanctions and that plays into the republican argument that there are two standards. one for clinton and one for all of the working people. the second point is, to go to your point, that there are significant discrepancies in what the fbi has found and what mrs. clinton and others around her have told the country over the last year, and so i do think it's still imperative that she face questions and not regard this as a closed door. i would note that the state department, we've learned has

opened its own investigation and that some of her top aides may now be sanctioned before this is over. it would be terrible and it would be an outrage if they're the ones who pay the price. >> that certainly would, and of course, the fbi admitting if one of his employees would do that and one of the sanks could include being fired, thank you very much. david gergen, we'll be right back. ♪ so nice, so nice st. croix full of pure vibes. ♪ so nice, so nice. ♪ st. john a real paradise. this summer experience us virgin islands nice. book 4 nights at visitusvi.com before july 16th to receive the 4th night free, plus $350 in spending credits. & in a world held back by compromise, businesses need the agility to do one thing & another.

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and thank you so much for joining us. don't forget you can watch "out front" any time anywhere on cnn go. "a.c. 360" begins next. john berman in for anderson tonight. from president obama to protesters in minneapolis, new york and elsewhere from an outraged governor to yet more grieving parents and growing reaction to a pair of police killings of african-american men. two dead in two days. the first fatal shooting of a man named alton sterling baton rouge, louisiana, that caught on video. the aftermath of the second in the suburb of the twin cities live streamed on facebook narrated by a mother, her 4-year-old daughter by her side en the man she loved and was