at the scene were involved in the shooting in some way. this is a person of interest, as you can see, they're in camouflage and they have a rifle strap slung with a rifle butt sticking up. rifles were used to injure and kill dallas officers. if anyone knows or recognizes this picture, please, immediately call 911. do not approach this suspect. we'll bring them to justice. >> chief, i'm sorry. to get the numbers straight. there are ten police officers shot that are shut. three deceased. does that include the ten? >> so, again, the initial release was we had ten officers shot. one of those officers is a dot officer and they're deceited. another dot officer was injured

and not deceased. there are two dallas officers. from the initial ten, we've had an additional officer to bring the total to 11. any other questions? >> we also have one civilian who was shot. >> yes. wounded. any other questions? >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we'll get back to you guys. >> okay. that was a press conference by the dallas police chief david brown saying there are 11 officers shot. and he said one of the dart officers is deceased. he said two of them are dallas police officers that are deceased so that makes up for the three officers there and also saying that there is one civilian that was wounded in this. what you're looking at now, this is what they're asking for. they want to know who this man is and if you can help identify this man and locate this man in the camouflage shirt with the weapon slung over his shoulder, they believe he is a suspect in

all of this and may have, again, according to them, have helped or committed some of the shootings here. they're also saying that they believe that the suspect may have planted a bomb, may have planted a bomb. they're asking for the public's help. they're also asking for the fbi's help in locating this man and trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done. the situation, the bomb situation, and so forth. we have a horrific situation that just happened here. 11 officers shot. three officers dead. no suspects in custody now. they believe that there were two sniper. they believe one of them could have been this gentleman or this gentleman was an actor some way in this and are looking for them. they believe these two snipers shot the officers were elevated positions during these protest rallies. another officer, three officers

are in critical condition tonight according to the latest release and from the press conference there with chief david brown. that is the latest situation happening in dallas as we look at what is unfolding here and still what is a very active scene, an active shooter, an active search. we're speaking to members of law enforcement here tom bernie, a retired police detective. a retired maryland police officer. charles blow is here. he knows people at the scene and we also have andre felix, who is in a hotel in dallas and also took a picture and is also helping police to speak to them as well. let's talk to andre felix. alary, this is your picture, this is this man from the back that you turned over to dallas police. tell us about your eastbound --

about your encounter with him. andre, are you there? >> i'm here. >> tell us about your encounter with this man. we're looking at your picture now. the shot from the back. >> we didn't say anything to him. we didn't talk to him. we basically just kind of snuck and took the picture because we just thought it was odd that he was stand tlaeg in front ing th us with this huge weapon there. we're not from texas so we don't know, you know, the laws in texas, so we took a picture because we just thought it was a little odd. come to find out, we have this big incident going on and so immediately i called dallas police number or actually dialed 911 first and then shortly there after, the detective called me and i'm waiting on him to come and we'll speak to him and everything and basically tell them everything we saw.

standby andre. i want to read information to our viewers. don't go anywhere. we'll get you back. this is a picture of a suspect that dallas police are looking for right at this moment. the police chief, david brown, held a press conference just a short time ago and asked for the public's help in locating this man. here is what they said at the police department, at this press conference. we believe the suspects were positioned to triangulate around police officers. we are reaching out to the families of all of the officers getting them transported to the hospital. the suspects have threatened to plant a bomb in the downtown area. they also added that there could be more than two suspects. we do know at least two snipers were elevated in positions at the protest rally march as it

ended and began firing on officers ambush style. john matthews, a former dallas police officer said, coordinated, the police chief backing up what you said, john matthews. john is not there? we don't have john. we'll go back to andre. andre, you still tll? >> yes. >> okay. andre, you're going to speak with police. you did not talk to this gentleman. you did not approach him. was he engaging with other people? were other people talking to him? was he just sort of on his own standing around? >> he was just pretty much on his own standing around. not really talking. and that is another reason why we we believe, don, that he was in some way involved in this. everybody that was out there from kids to older adults were chanting and participating in

the protests. this gentleman was standing around, looking around. it sparked us as odd. first we thought tg was a fake gun and now, you know, we find out that it might not even have been fake. it is kind of scary so that is why i wanted to contact the dallas police department and i myself have worked in law enforcement just on a different level for the department of corrections and so i wanted to do what i can to help them out. >> all right. standby, andre. i want to bring my law enforcement guys in here. so neal, when you hear about planting a bomb. they believe they planted a bomb. my goodness, if indeed so well coordinated. >> yeah, but there is one thing we have to understand, that the coordination had to occur within probably the last 24 to 36 hours since all of this started to break. what the police are probably

focused on right now, now that they have a person of interest is they'll be looking for and pulling any kind of video that they can from businesses and locations throughout that area and we know that there are plenty of cameras and plenty of video in that area. one of the other things they should probably do if they hadn't already is put another announcement out to the public to review their photos, a lot of people were taking photos and video. if this is one of the people, the thing to do next is to link him to other people. do we see him talking to other people? once we identify him, if we can get a name for the individual, and this is why it is important for the public to come forward. if we can get a name, we can even do research for phone records to see if he has a cell phone, okay? then we can pull that record, get a subpoena for those records, which will happen very quickly and then start identifying numbers that he may

have called or that may have called him, and then start tying other people to this individual. so the police are already on this. this is the type of work that they're doing and they'll try to do it very quickly. if there is, in fact, i hope it is not, but if there is, in fact, some sort of explosive device planted somewhere or they plan to do it, we need to get on top of that really quickly. >> they didn't say, tom, how they knew, that the sfukts had threat -- how the suspects had planned to plant a bomb. did you hear that, neal snl. >> i did not hear that. what will be interesting is how they would come across this information if they did not in fact apprehend anyone yet. >> tom, would it be surprising to you. they knew there were at least two snipers but they said there could be more than one, maybe

two or three other people involved in this? >> well, i would hope that there is not more people involved in this. they're talking bg two so far they are looking for. and also, by the way, they also report, there was a civilian shot as well. people, at this point. this is an emergency situation. people need to, you know, there will be time to break down what happened in these two previous police involved shootings in baton rouge and also in minnesota. there will be time to extrapolate what happened in those areas. not only in dallas, but all of the other cities. police will be on alert and people will be on alert as well. if you have people attending the protests that have -- they're held bent on doing damage to the police. they're not going to be particular on where the bullets are flying and hitting other

bystanders with the police or around the police. people need to touchback -- need to be aware and taking pictures of things that don't look right to them and reporting immediately to the police so they can stop before more damage is done. >> the picture on the screen is the person who dallas police want to get in touch with. they're trying to figure out or at least they want to identify him and figure out -- locate him. figure out where he is and bring him in because they believe that he had something to do with the shooting of these 11 officers in dallas, texas. three of them now dead. charles blow, it was mentioned earlier there is a climate of fear with all of this going on and sadly so. >> right. as everybody i think on the panel has been saying before we have to figure out who these guys are, what their motives are and what have you. if this is in fact somehow associated or connected with the

protests, it marks a significant ratcheting up of tactic. the way that we have seen previous police shootings before, they're almost random in a way. someone with a handgun. even cases you mentioned before with new york city it was one guy with a handgun. this is a different sort of thing which makes you really want to know who they are and how they did this. if it is a coordinated attack. long guns, in texas, you can see somebody being able to get into an area like this with guns because it is an open carry state. people show up with guns like that. i was just in dallas two blocks away from where this happened. i understand that terrain. i also understand texas in that way. but if this is connected in any way, whatever it is, we know temporary is a mass shooting. and if it is connected in any way to kind of retribution, it is a significant ratcheting up and that is -- that is something

that we as all americans have to worry about. how do we live in an environment where everybody, where there is miss trust or there is animosity to this kind of level that someone, for whatever reason would target police officers in this way and do this much damage. >> i want to talk about the legal part of this and listen, when you injure a police officer and if you kill a police officer, that is -- you're not going to see the light of day. >> yeah, we're talking about some very serious charges whenever and hopefully when we find the two suspects. it is ironic that we were here, started the show talking about the shooting in baton rouge and the shooting in minnesota and what that meant for the country and how the president was asking us to have empathy and as we're having that conversation on your show, we're watching this horrific police shooting, the

violence, the level of violence that family members and all of us in the public are being subjected today is just really unthinkable. i just want to say, as much as our heart is breaking for these police officers and their families it is so important what you keep reiterating sg that we don't know the connection, if any, between the protestors, when we look at the protesters and i've been at some of the protests, they're often times women and college students and family members and grandmas and grandpas. they're not people typically walking around with assault rifles with the intention to target police officers, so i think we have to remain very clear about what the facts are as well definitely realize the emergency situation that we find ourselves in and the horrific shooting but not to, in any way, mar the peaceful protesters out there and hard pressed to

suggest the peaceful protesters are in any way planning this kind of attack that the police officers on the panel have talked about, the level of skill and planning that would be needed to carry out what we've all just witnessed on this show. >> standby, areva. we want to get to ktvt with live reporting. >> at the very least, they want to talk to them. >> i got to go. dallas police department tweeting now, and i'm going to read the tweet to you. it says with heavy hearts, we're devastated to report that a fourth officer has been killed tonight. those words are coming from the dallas police department. so four officers are now -- >> that was our -- >> and again, we don't know if it means if it is one of their officers or not because the chief had in his summation earlier included one dart officer who had died earlier so i hesitate to tell you in any

way whether this is a dart or a dpd officer. there is not a lot of clarity on this but the tweet is coming from the dallas police department. again, telling us that a fourth officer has died tonight. so let's go back to, here we are at one of the hospital scenes and it has been a massive police presence there. obviously family and close friends have been arriving through the night in a very, very heavy police presence you would well expect in a situation like this. one trying to comfort the other as we go through this horrific night here in north texas. the officers shot and we look at how this unfolded tonight the best we know it now. this information came from the chief. the two snipers were in elevated positions and we believe them to be in a parking garage that was downtown off main street. so they're in elevated positions. 11 officers in all were shot. four of them now, again, that is an updated number, four now deceased and the chief went out of his way there is no question that he believes these shooters

planned to injure and in this case, to kill the officers they were going after tonight and yet another situation that they have to deal with, the snipers apparently threatened to plant a bomb somewhere downtown, so they've got that whole side of this thing to deal with tonight as well as did. >> so you're listening to the affiliate ktvt. the death toll, sadly, in dallas has risen to four officers and again, reading the tweet from the dallas police department with heavy hearts, we're devastated to report a fourth officer has been killed. dallas pd department tweet, again, four officers now dead. 11 officers shot. i'm not sure if that officer is with the dallas police or with dart. the dallas area rapid transit -- pardon me, i'm getting nation my ear. this is unbelievable.

four officers now dead in a protest that started off as peaceful and there is also information out now that there is video of the suspect from the dallas morning news and we'll try to get that to you as soon as we get it on, but again, police are looking for the suspect now. there are pictures of him that are out there that they released at the press conference, the dallas police officer tweeted out. we spoke to a man who saw the suspect in the crowd and tweeted out and sent us a picture of the man. there he is right there. police want to know who he is. i want to bring in ben ferguson, the cnn political commenter who lives in dallas. what do you have for us? >> reporter: yeah there, is active shooting that has just taken place in downtown dallas and apparently the police have have been engaged with at least one of these snipers, but literally, just as i was looking and talking to an individual that is in the area with police,

the shots started to ring out. so there is apparently an active situation there in downtown, in this area that we were talking about, if you're looking right by, close to the dart station. this is the same area where the picture was taken of that suspect. he was walking in this crowd when this assault rifle over his shoulder and we, you know, as we were told earlier, these individuals shot from an elevated position. you have the horrific news that another police officer has passed away. there is -- there were active shots, multiple shots that were just fired in that area there with police taking cover. we see s.w.a.t. team members now who are going car to car in this area looking in the car trying to figure out where some of these shots may have come from. this is happening, as we speak now, the police helicopters also are spotlighting some of the

shorter routes. there are shorter building that's are a lot smaller and they are now spotlighting each one of the roof tops in this area. you can see, as everyone just was told to get out of the way, trying to figure out where the shots are coming from now. but this is the first time we've seen more shots since the beginning of this happened. >> okay, ben, i want you sto standby. i have a question i want to ask. neill franklin, are you there? >> i'm here, don. >> i want to ask you. okay, so they said that these snipers were in an elevated position but then during the shooting or right after, you see the suspect in the crowd. how is that possible unless he was just someone else who was involved in the shooting? do you understand what i'm say snaeg. >> when i looked at the picture, it appears to be daylight. are you talking about the picture -- >> the picture that the police put up, but then there is also video out of the same person.

>> i haven't seen that. >> he appears to be in the crowd right after or during the shooting, so i am sort of, you know, how he is in one of the positions and how he is involved. he could be ininvolved but maybe not in the elevated position part. >> we don't know how many people are involved. the police believe that, you know, there was p at least two but there is still so much that is unknown so we don't know if this person really is involved yet. it is a good possibility that he was but we don't know for sure. someone has to know this guy. i mean, someone, i mean, people are watching these broadcasts. you're obviously not the only network putting this out, someone has to know this person. someone has to come forward and call that number and identify this person so we can get to the

bottom of this. >> yeah. >> as we said before, this is an immediate emergency, needs to be dealt with right now. >> yeah, and as we have been saying here, again, they just want to talk to this person, we don't know their involvement. they're not saying the involvement. they asked for the public's help in getting in touch with this person and identifying this person, and again, you can carry a gun as charles blow has said, in texas. >> it is open carry. it is an open carry state. we have other states that open carry. missouri is open carry. we have protests in missouri. we have protests all across this country right now and again, this is where it really becomes touchy for police officers. >> yeah. >> and again, i'm going to keep pushing in this that we need leaders to come forward and start speaking on this and start bringing a sense of calm about, to all of us involved in this. law enforcement side and the citizens and protesters.

>> yeah. >> you're looking at, these are pictures that happened earlier. hang on one second. let me read this. stand by, everyone. okay. there are reports out there that the brother of the person of interest says his brother is not a suspect. he handed his long rifle over to a police officer so we're working to confirm that. but at any rate, the police in the press conference asked for information on this person and put that out there, so we want to just, you know, again, we don't know what this person's involvement is in this if there is involvement at all but that is it. but also, there is video, a 45 second video that has dramatic sound of multiple gunshots a

woman can be heard saying people are on the ground. i hope they're just hiding followed by more gunshots and again, if we can get that video up. that video is in the cnn system. but again, that is from an eyewitness news who is on the ground and we're getting information from all of these eyewitnesss showing that they heard multiple gunshots. some people thought it was fireworks. they didn't believe it was real at first and after people started running and they realized that it wasn't fireworks and it was actual gunshots, people began hiding and trying to get to safer positions. some heard gunshots of rapid succession of 20 at a time. here is the video i just mentioned. take a listen. >> there are people laying on the ground. i hope they're just hiding. [ gunshots ]

>> somebody is really armed to the teeth. this is not, this is not one person. this is a person -- [ gunshots ] >> okay. so there we go. that is, that is what you hear. that is what was heard in downtown dallas. again, this is brand new video into cnn. it is about 45 l seconds. dramatic, dramatic sound you can hear of multiple gunshots. listen to that. you also heard the woman saying there are people laying on the ground. i hope they're just hiding and you hear a man saying someone is armed to the teeth and i'm not sure if this is coming from the

snipers or if this is coming from police. tom bernie, you can't tell that from listening to the video. >> it is hard to tell. there is certainly a lot of fire power going on right there. it has to be an extremely scary situation for the police and anyone in the area and people need to be looking in that area as well, if people are in the hotels and the surrounding area and they see, you know, certainly someone on the adjoining roof top, they should be recording that or calling 911 first and letting police know where they're at so they know where to focus their attention. >> okay. okay, so listen, i also want to say, listen, according to the police chief statements that they believe that the police officers, that the snipers shot the police officers from elevated positions during the protest, but again, they believe that that is what happened. the information that we get in the beginning of this, these situations are not necessarily,

it doesn't always pan out because it is a chaotic situation but this is information directly from chief david brown in a release saying that they believe the snipers were in elevated positions but they're also believing that there could be more than two suspects involved. they put out a picture and a request to try to find one person, again, don't know if that person is connected but they just want to get in touch with that individual to see, to check him out to see what is going on. danny, rerack this. i want to play this from the beginning. this is what it sounded like in dallas as this all unfolded. let's listen to this video. [ gunshots ] >> oh, my god. there are people laying on the ground. i hope they're just hiding. [ gunshots ] >> somebody is really armed to the teeth. this is not just one person. this is a person with --

[ gunshots ] >> oh, my god. they can't be -- [ gunshots ] >> okay. a lot of fire power there. that video into cnn. i want to get to our affiliate of ktvt. they're in they're interviewing a father and daughter. >> can you tell what happened to your family member. >> one of her partners called my wife and told her what was going on and that is when we came down here. >> how long has she been with dart? can you tell us? >> i don't know, five, six, seven years. >> has she ever been in any scary situation like this before? >> no. just your normal stuff. a few fights and stuff.

nothing like this. >> thank you so much for talking with us. >> no problem. >> i understand it has to be very difficult. i'm happy your mom is okay. so, again -- >> can we get your names first? >> can you say and spell your name. >> richard mcbrad. this is hunter. >> hunter mcbride. >> how old are you? >> 10. >> listen, i'm just assuming here. they're at the hospital and saying i'm glad your mom is okay. the mom must be a dart officer because i heard that towards the end saying has she ever been involved in anything like this and the husband said no, but, again, this officer is okay. so officers taken to several different hospitals. the latest information, as you can see on the screen, 11 police officers shot. four killed in downtown dallas tonight in the business district by what police say are targeted snipers. they say shot from an elevated

position but again, that is initial, that is the initial information coming in very early. also asking for the public's help and locating a suspect. they put out a picture. they're also saying they think the suspects may have planted a bomb or bombs and are asking for the fbi to help and again, asking for the public's help as well. i am just reiterating what our law enforcement experts are saying here to me on cnn tonight that this is obviously an emergency situation. a horrific situation unfolding in dallas tonight as there was a protest going on, after two police shootings in this country. one in minnesota, the other in baton rouge, louisiana. i'm joined now by my panel of experts, charles blow is a cnn political commentator. neill ferguson is a retired maryland state major. areva martin is an attorney in women's rights and tom verni, a

retired new york police detective. neill, you heard the fire power in the video we just received in to cnn. someone was armed to the teeth. >> absolutely. a lot of shots rang out but one thing we have to realize in that particular area where we have high rise buildings, a lot of the shots were echos that's we were hearing. but still, a lot of fire power, obviously. there is a recent tweet here from the dallas police department. can i read that to you real quick? >> yes. go ahead. >> so it says the person of interest who's picture has been circulated just turned himself in. another alleged suspect was in a shoot out with dallas s.w.a.t. officers. that suspect is also in custody. a suspicious package was discovered near the suspect's location. the package is being secured by

the dallas police department bomb squad and they'll provide more information when is it available. >> okay. thank you, neill. if the producers, if you can get that to my e-mail. i'll read it again. but according to that, the person who's picture was put out by the dallas police turned himself in. >> this is where i think it is important for us to take a breath here. that is someone of interest on their part. there has been a lot of video on social media basically showing this guy on the ground when the shooting broke out. whether or not he is involved or not, we don't know that but taking a breath because if he is not in fact a part of this in any way, was not a shooter in any way, you know, his face just got blasted across everybody's television screens and you know, he has a life and we want to be careful to make sure that this guy is actually involved instead this and how we framed the

discussions around him and in fact, the second part of this that would be very unusual for these sorts of people is that he walks into a police department and turned himself in. so i just, i urge a bit of caution. >> yes. >> but also, we should be urging a bit of caution. that was a police department that put that out. >> on their part, too. let me read the information i have. hang on, areva, we'll get to you. here is the information, the latest we've gotten in. they said with heavy hearts, we're devastated to report that a fourth officer has died. the person of interest who's picture has been circulated just turned himself in, they said. a person of interest. another alleged suspect was in a shoot out with dallas s.w.a.t. officers. the suspect, that suspect is also in custody. so now we have one person in custody. a suspicious package was discovered near this suspect's location. the package is being secured by the dpd bomb squad.

again, in the press conference they said that they were concerned about a possible planted bomb so they're checking out the suspicious package. they also said there was no suspect in custody at the time. now they're saying there is a suspect in custody. that was in a shoot out with dallas s.w.a.t. officers and again, they're checking that suspicious package. the person of interest who's picture that the police department sent out is -- also has turned himself in. again, they're not saying if he was involved. they're just saying turned himself in. now they're saying that there are four officers dead. 11 shot. areva, go ahead. >> i was just going to say, don, consistent with what charles was saying in terms of being cautious about the statements we give and what little information we have. what we haven't heard is making any connection between these shooters and the peaceful

protest and we know that the protests were planned around the country tomorrow and maybe even into the weekend with respect to the shooting in baton rouge and the shooting in minnesota and we want to make sure that the people who are engaging in peaceful protests are not in any way being attached to whoever is involved in the heinous crimes that were committed tonight and all of us in the civil rights community. we want to see the people who shot the officers to be brought to justice. we want the justice to be swift and held accountable but we also know that those protests that are going to take place tomorrow and the next day, those people need to be able to do so in a peaceful way and not have these criminals and the criminal acts in any way to mar or tank those protests. >> areva, thank you very much. i want to get to ben ferguson who lives in dallas and joins us now by phone.

what do you know? >> we're talking about the suspect who's picture was given out. >> the person of interest. >> the person of interest, yeah. he apparently what i was told by one person that he actually, after the shooting took place, handed his gun over to the police early on in the night to make it clear he was not involved in it. he knew obviously having the gun, a long rifle, he was not breaking the law carrying the gun in texas with the laws that we have in texas and his brother has come out and videos have come out of him running apparently when the shots were taking place. what we also have been told is that the hospital, baylor hospital, there was a police car that was actually taken there with one of the police men in it and it had bullet holes in the police car. we just heard about obviously a moment ago about s.w.a.t. teams with the one suspect they've

taken in but the mayor came out and made it very clear and the police director as well that they're looking for another suspect or suspects and if you know anything, they're now just saying hey, there is a tip line but just call 911. to put this into perspective object how chaotic it is downtown and why the police director may have had the police conference with the suspect even though police may have known he gave it over to police there, is so much chaos right now downtown that game wardens have been called in to help set-up this perimeter in downtown. this is the most i think shocking display of cooperation among police, local police and the fbi. rarely, you have game wardens coming in. dart coming in here. anyone that is in law enforcement with a badge basically has come to the scene and is actively taking part in trying to find this individual.

i've been able to watch 20 plus s.w.a.t. officers who have been going car to car with their guns drawn, lights on, looking in the windows of cars in the downtown area. they really, this is such an active situation that they're saying anybody that can help, we don't care if you're game wardens, please come help us and they're being involved in part of this as they're continuing to bring in the s.w.a.t. teams in the area where this package was found and trying to secure this area where the one gunman was found as well. it is definitely, unfortunately, far from over at this point. >> and an emergency situation obviously happening in downtown dallas. there have been -- >> also, the hospitals, just so you know, whether it be the parkland, baylor, in east dallas, we're still seeing the

gu gurneys in the entry way there, not only with law enforcement out there protecting the nurses and doctors and protecting the area because they're concerned on what will come in but rarely do you see the police officers in a defensive standpoint at a hospital waiting for people to come in. >> and you can see just the amount of force out in dallas tonight as you were talking about officers going door-to-door and asking for anyone who can help them to come in and help them. game wardens, so listen, i have say, we have the two suspects in custody but i understand one suspect is in custody and then a person of interest has turned himself in, so -- >> correct. >> yes. one person of interest turned himself in and one other person in custody. one suspect, alleged suspect in a shoot out with dallas police, so listen, and this appears to be live pictures on the interstate in dallas, again,

from ktvt. ben ferguson, do you recognize where this is? >> this would be coming right in from downtown dallas there. you can see there, you're looking at ann arbor street is one of the signs so this is close knit proximity to downtown and if you look in fronth of the police cars, there is one car that was a nonpolice car in front of them, so i don't know if this was, you know, some sort of possible chase, but as you can see as the camera is moving back there. ann arbor avenue, in the heart of the downtown area. this would be an easy way to get out of downtown. one of the things about downtown dallas and the reason why this is, i'm sure they were trying to put a perimeter up is you can go to houston, you can go to oklahoma, you can go through into arkansas, you can also go out further deeper into texas

from the major intersections coming in whether it be 30 or 45, coming in or you can go out to fort worth. in this area, literally, there is probably four different ramps you can take within 30 seconds of where the shooting took place and head off to any part northwest without having to find your way onto the expressway. that is the convention center and the reason why they built it that there is it was a center point for people to pull in. >> i hear a person, excuse me, of interest or suspect that police were pursuing and so we don't know exactly know the circumstances behind that but that is what we're hearing from our affiliates there on the ground. stand by ben ferguson. i want to get by to anthony may, a retired atf explosives enforcement officer. anthony, hi, you're there,

right? can you hear me? %-pr you, and talk to you about the fire power here and also talk to you about this suspicious package which officers believe may have been a bomb but first, let's play this video of the actual gunshots in downtown dallas tonight. [ gunshots ] >> there are people lay eing on the ground. i hope they're just hiding. [ gunshots ] >> somebody is armed to the teeth. this is not one person. this is a person with -- [ gunshots ] >> oh, my god. they can't be -- oh, my god. [ gunshots ]

>> okay, so anthony may. talk to me about the fire power and the suspicious package discovered near the suspect. there was a shoot out with police. a shoot out with s.w.a.t. officers, there is a suspicious package discovered near this suspect's location and it is being secured by the dallas pd bomb squad so you have the swat team with one person, you have lots of fire power there, and then you have a bomb squad. walk us through this. >> the initial shots you are hearing in the video. the first one or two shots, it sounded like obviously a long gun, somebody taking a precision shots. the only problem we have with analyzing that in this downtown setting with the building, you have echos, you have noise distortion, definitely a long gun, but then as the video progresses, you have the rapid fire, probably a semi automatic rifle of some type, assault weapon if you want to go that

route. as far as suspicious package, when officers are taking fire like this, anything becomes suspicious especially with someone of interest. so it will be exploited. the problem is now we have a bomb squad working under conditions that are, where they're taking fire so the s.w.a.t. teams will provide cover and they will be exploiting that package, probably not in their normal routine manner. i would suspect that they are going to violently rip the package open with some of their disrupting tools, explosive disrupting tools in order to not be on target and be out in the open for any other sniper type fire. >> i want to update our viewers right now, anthony. don't go anywhere, because again, we have 11 officers shot. we have four officers dead here. we also have information from the dallas police department. the dallas police department tweeted in a statement. the person of interest who's picture has been circulated has

turned himself in. another alleged suspect was in a shoot out with dallas s.w.a.t. officers. that suspect is also in custody. a suspicious package was discovered near the suspect's location. the package is being secured by the dpd bomb squad and i should tell you that cnn is aware of local media reports saying that the man in the photo tweeted by dallas pd earlier this evening is not involved in this shooting. we're aware of local media reports saying the man in the photo tweeted by dallas pd earlier in the evening is not involved in the shooting. cnn has not confirmed these reports, again, so we should, we just want to be transparent and let you know what we know at this hour. again, very fluid situation. you see the law enforcement there out on the interstate in dallas, texas, also law enforcement combing big chunk of downtown dallas. the buses and the trains, the rail service has been halted in

downtown dallas at this hour. they are still looking for the possibility of other suspects and the possibility of a bomb and we're talking to ishmael dejesus now who has been holed up in his hotel, at one point in the basement of the hotel. now in his room and will talk to dallas police. what is going on with you now, ishmael. >> right now we're just -- >> that was andre felix before. i'm getting my guests confused. that was andre felix. ishmael, what is going on with you? pardon me. >> i'm sorry? >> what is going on with you? >> right now we're just in our hotel room right now. everyone is here. honestly, i got up from the bed, i went outside, saw this man,

clear as day, shooting around aimlessly. it was complete mayhem. people were running all over the intersection, honestly i don't know how there were any more dead bodies out there, but i can't confirm the man that was shown on the picture here on cnn was not the guy that i filmed shooting. on the ground. >> you have video of someone shooting, right? >> yes, sir. >> let's put it up and then we'll talk. let's play it. >> okay. [ gunshots ] >> there he was shooting at the

intersection over to the right side. >> my god. my god, what is going on. right there, man. >> okay. again, so ishmael. this is a guy you see at the center of your screen, right? it is kind of hard to tell. the guy you see at the center of your screen is the shooter snr. >> yes. yes. >> so between the two poles, if we can -- >> yeah, he is in between the two pillars. >> okay. >> does he appear -- what are we

seeing here? were there other officers engaging him. >> there was one single officer that came across elm street from the parking lot, came by himsy, hid behind one of the pillars, the assailant was facing to the left in the video and he wasn't able to hit him so the assailant then turned around, i mean it was devastating to watch. you know. >> my god -- >> okay, if you're just joining us, ismael dejesus is on the phone now, shot video of the shooter. and let's rerack this. ismael, don't go anywhere, we're going to play it from the beginning, again, this is very graphic but we want you to watch

it. here it is. [ gunfire ] >> yeah -- it's really hard to watch, you know. i do want to say you know, this was -- this is -- a really, really unfortunate event. and i really don't think that you know, social equality should be dealt in this manner. i know i'm live, and i just want to put that out there. it's my personal opinion, i don't think that this was the

best way that -- you know, the community can make a point for you know their movement. i'm all for social equality, protest, freedom of speech. but this was not the way to do it. this was really -- this was -- a tragedy. this was -- this is nothing -- nothing less than a terrorist attack, honestly. i mean, that is my personal opinion. >> no, listen, you're free to say that. you know, that is your opinion. and having shot this video i just want you to walk us through it again, because you know it's not shot in the format that -- that would make it clear on television. so explain to our viewers what we're seeing. how close to the officer, where the shooting was, where the officer was. >> okay, basically came out to the balcony. i did hear some popping sounds. i did think it was fireworks at

first. came out, man had a rifle. ar-15, clear as day. pretty big magazine. and you could see towards the end of the video here he goes ahead and drops a few mags. >> this is him here right by the column? >> yes, that is him by the white column, you know, shoots to the left, shoots on the right, shoots on the other side of the pillar, you know, he was shooting at somebody, aiming at somebody. then he turned around, you know, checked his back. made sure no one was coming but the officer did come across the right side of the screen to the pillar of the right, and the officer did try to take him and it didn't end well. it just ended very tragically.

>> and that is the officer getting shot right there? >> no, i didn't get the video of the officer, that is the officer down right there. it was -- it looked like an execution, honestly. he stood over him after he was already down. shot him maybe three or four more times in the back. so at that point i didn't know if he was confirmed dead or anything. obviously. but he was down for about five more minutes until anybody could come get to him. >> how far away from the suspect were you and how clearly could you see him? >> maybe -- 50 yards. >> what did he look like? >> honestly, in the video, i don't know the exact skin color. i can't throw that out there. but he did have some tactical pants on, a green shirt on. i don't know what race he was. i can't just throw a race out there.

but it did look -- it did look planned. i mean, he just parked and he knew where to stand and he opened fire and had ammo ready and he was ready to go. >> is this car with the flashers? >> yeah, that is the chevy tahoe there, late model. chevy tahoe. so he just got out of there, walked over to the pillar, put a magazine in and was ready, started firing. >> and where did he go afterwards? did he drive away in the car? >> no, afterwards, what he did, after he killed the policeman, he walked to the right of the screen around the corner and went up -- he went west down elm street towards el central college, down that alley over there. so after that i just got live on facebook and was just going on from there. i didn't get anything else. i didn't get them on video. >> was he standing over?

was it execution style? >> i would say so. he -- he -- when he shot the officer first, the officer was clearly down. was already you know -- he was already done. and stood over him again. and popped another three or four rounds into him. and it was -- honestly, it was very, very -- disturbing to watch. >> i mean, it's just unbelievable that you caught this on videotape. and i am sure it was just a surreal moment for you. >> yeah, it was really troubling. i came away you know -- a little staycation. i had a few days off and you know wanted to relax. and i'm going tomorrow to work, hoping i would get a good

night's rest, and something like that happens. and it was definitely troubling. >> yeah. so you said -- and i'm going to -- read what you said to our producers, okay, and then you can also walk me through it. you're staying at a hotel downtown. i don't want to say what hotel you're staying at. don't say that. you heard the shooting and started filming. you said the shooter had lots of 30 round magazines, correct? >> yeah, that is my guess, they were not short mags, they were definitely high capacity magazines. >> so many that you say they were falling out of his pockets? >> yeah, he dropped two of them, he had multiple pockets, you can't see in the resolution of the video, but he did have about three or four coming out of his pants. >> you said it looked like he was wearing body armor? >> yeah, it looked like he was

wearing something in his shirt, the police officer shot him in the back but it didn't faze him. he just turned around and shot the officer like nothing happened. i can only assume there unless he was a really, really big guy that he had some type of body armor on under that t-shirt. >> you said you watched the officer sneak up behind the shooter and then watched the shooter turn up and hit the officer multiple times? >> yes, sir, he came up behind the right pillar, the pillar just to the right of him and was hiding with his back to the pillar, turned around, shot about three shots. maybe hit him with one. the assailant turned right around, came around the corner. the officer thought he came around the other side of the pillar. that is when he caught the officer from the back. and shot the officer. >> at first you say the guy was shooting wildly. was he just shooting randomly or aiming -- >> when i stepped out to the

balcony, he was shooting into the intersection. shooting into a parking lot. but then he directed the fire obviously, some police officers were on the corner over there on the left side of the video. and he started directing his fire that way. so maybe he was trying to get the commotion going to get the cops' attention, that is all speculation obviously. but that is what i gathered from it. >> and how long before other officers -- other officers showed up to help, correct? >> it was quick, i would say about after the shooting started maybe about two or three minutes, honestly. if that. >> unbelievable. if you're just tuning in, i'm phone the phone with ismael dejesus, he was in a hotel across from where one of the officers was shot.

he is on the phone with us live. and you see his video up there live, he is describing what happened. let's take you back to this video again. it's very difficult to watch and listen to and we'll continue our conversation with ismael deju dejesus. play it. [ gunfire ]

okay, everyone, if you're just joining us it is 1:00 a.m. eastern time. i'm don lemon live in new york. we're reporting on the death of three officers, at least four officers, excuse me, killed in dallas this evening. 11 officers shot. we are speaking now to an eyewitness to one of the officers being shot. he witnessed it from his hotel. we're speaking to ismael dejesus. ismael tells us the shooter drove up in the black suv or the dark suv. you can see there started shooting wildly at an intersection. a police officer quickly engaged him. and