terrestrial terrestrials. >> hello from the children of planet earth. >> this is musical selections. and one tweet from donald trump. i'm of course just kidding about that last one. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, i will see you next week. hey, good morning, it's time for "reliable sources" our weekly look at the story behind the story in the media world. how news and pop culture get made. you have heard it and i have heard it. america is in crisis, america is divided. that's what we keep being told. but is it true? and is some of the overheated news coverage making things even worse? we're going to examine the coverage of the latest police shootings and the acts of domestic terrorism in dallas. this video here from deray mckes

son. at the moment he is still behind bars, several journalists have also been swept up in the arrest this is week. there's also been a story about the media this week, prosecutor roger ailes. gretchen carlson filed a lawsuit claiming sexual harassment by ailes. ailes says this is a retaliatory suit for the network's decision not to renew her contract. lawyers for ailes are also charging that carlson violated her contract. she, quote, never agreed to arbitrate anything. and that she intends to fight

for her right for a public jury trial. carlson's lawyers also tell me and the other reporters who have been calling, that other women, perhaps more than a dozen have come forward with their own stories. yesterday, new york magazine must published six more allegations. so what does this mean for ailes. a national affairs editor of new york magazine who published yesterday's accounts. and the executive director of women, action and media. gabe, let me start with you and your most recent reporting. how would you summarize the allegations from gretchen carlson and from these women you interviewed on the phone? >> really the allegations from the women i interviewed were over a 25-year period dating from the 1960s when roger ailes

was a producer on the mike douglas show. that he basically propositioned women for sexual favors in exchange for job opportunities. >> your book published in 2014, what is different now? obviously one difference is there is a lawsuit, a public document. >> i published accounts of on the record women who had been asked for sexual favors in exchange for job opportunities by roger ailes. a major news anchor has come out with -- now we bring it up to the present day, that is the crucial difference. >> to reflect on what this represents, to have a high profile anchor come out and make these allegations.

>> thank you so much for having me, i think that this is a very important moment for us to really focus on what it means for women to have less access to ownership in media. for a woman that's as high profile as gretchen carlson that was a hostile working environment for her, where she's constantly enduring a barrage of sexist misogynistic comments that have been made toward her, but also having to endure sexual harassment every day in her workplace. and she's just one example of many women across the country who are enduring this and women who are enduring this in the newsroom. we can look at the case in canada as well, for examples of how pervasive this is. think about all of the other stories that are now being cast in the shadows that will start to come to light as a result of

her speaking out. >> so that is what she is alleges and her what ares say this is a brave stance because she may never work in television again. you interviewed these women, you worked with the law firm to gain access to them. i have been told that before the women could not or would not give their names. could you tell me what conditions if any you made before you spoke to these women? >> i pushed back on working with the law firm. like any reporter, i persistently covered this story. so i chose to call them as a source like anyone. >> but the law firm did provide the information? did you find them to be credible? >> incredibly credible. it fit a pattern of behavior that i covered in my book. i interviewed them at length. these are stories they didn't even tell their husbands, their

children, these are incredibly personal stories so for a lot of women they faced fear of retribution for speaking out. >> kelley o'boyle who told us that she corroborates the story. i'm homeland securilding an eig lawsuit here. when you assess it, do you believe this will eventually go to trial or will it eventually reach a settlement? >> for a plaintiff -- the defendant is saying there's an arbitration clause that keeps them -- >> you and i have klaus have -- >> not only your contact with

your job, but consumer electronics, but the key here is that the plaintiff has wisely alleged new york city law, not new york state law, new york city discrimination laws arguably, the strongest in the entire country for plaintiffs, a very good strategic move to use that law. on the other hand if a court decides that they validly agreed to arbitrate cases like this, this case will go to private arbitration and it will be out of the public eye. the plaintiff in this case will argue, no, no, no, not so fast, we didn't agree to arbitrate with roger ailes, we agreed to arbitrate with fox news. >> the law requires that this issue be determined relatively quickly as compared to other cases because courts recognize that parties that have arbitration clauses want them to remain private and they should go to arbitration as quickly as

possible. i should add that courts, by the way, love enforcing arbitration clauses. why? one less thing for them to worry about. they would love to shove it off to a private arbitration and clear their docket. so there's a well recognized preference for courts to uphold arbitration clauses. but the court must find that the parties did agree to arbitrate under a valid contract. >> let me show greta van sustren said to me on the phone this morning. this does not ring true to her, i have been there 15 years, i have never seen it, never heard it, never heard anything close to these allegations. we heard similar comments from jeanine pirro, as well as former host karen chetry, who said all of my years at the network,

roger ailes never put forth any sexual advances. we have now heard from megan kelly, the highest profile host at fox news, does it matter that these women are coming forward speaking for roger ailes? >> it very well might end up in arbitration, but assuming that it does, the new york city law is so permissive for plaintiffs. for example all you really need is a single act of discrimination that qualifies under the laws, other state and federal laws require a pattern of hostile and pervasive conduct. but given how strong new york city law is for plaintiffs, you don't need to show a whole lot if you are a plaintiff. but remember, there's another wrinkle, the plaintiff has filed in new jersey court having them to enforce new york city law. i'm not so sure, and i'm sure

there are master strategists on both sides of this case, i'm not sure they can have new jersey law uphold new york city law. >> gabe, you have been covering fox news for years, fox news is antagonist, they believe you are hostile against fox. are you viewed as antagonist? >> i cover fox the same way i would cover any other media organization or political cam pain, i am basically focused on reporting the story. this just happens to be the biggest story in media and i cover it no differently. >> roger ailes is probably thinking this is liberal media bias and that people are out to get him. >> his strategy is to go on the attack, let's go back to 2004

wha host accused -- said she was trying to seek money, extortion, so if history is a judge, fox, and we already see a push back, they're trying to discredit carlson's claims and any other women that come forward. but my aim is not to get lost in the strategy and to focus on these stories and these women who are taking a personal risk by coming forward and challenging the most powerful man in news business. >> if you could give us a bigger picture, a context, do you believe this is a positive in some way, a positive for the news business, to have these allegations surface because it may make women in other newsrooms and other situations feel more comfortable coming forward if they say they have been harassed? >> i would like to say that the anita hill case radicalized the increase in reporting of women

who are reporting sexual harassment in the workplace. it's very important that we think about that case and look at the history now and how it's influencing this generation of women and the next generation of women that are coming after them. >> as ailes is denying both the allegations by carlson, an attorney is also denying the allegation from other women. is there any chance ailes would step aside as the owner of fox news the murdocks are involved in the investigation? at and soy. for your pet, we go beyond. put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists.

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welcome back, even fox news boss roger ailes has a boss. three of them actually. executive chairman rupert murdock and his sons. this is what the murdocks are saying. while we have full confidence in mr. ailes and mr. doocy, who have served the company brilliantly for over two decades, we are investigating the matter. >> fox news is not named, steve doocy is not named but roger ailes is. media critics, observers are

wondering if this is an opportunity for murdock's sons, who are said to be les fans of ailes than their father rupert. could ailes actually be ousted as a result of this? it's being asked online. let me ask my guests. i got to be honest, i feel weird even saying it out loud, that roger ailes tenure at fox could come to an end. it sounds almost outlandish to me. is this something that's conceivable now that there's this internal review going on and we know nothing about it. >> it is conceivable and part of the question is what other allegations surface in public view, you know, the real spector of what ee's looming over this bill cosby, in which there was a parade of women that came

forward. >> those are allegations of r rape, there is no such allegation against ailes. why this is being called the bill cosby of media, is that there might be more women coming forwa forward. are you talking to other sources? >> we're looking at it from the defense, that mr. ailes is confirmively arguing, you can see the memo he sent to gretchen carlson, about let's see how her numbers go. carls carl algs -- ailes went out of his way to seek more promotion for her. we're trying to speak to for colleagues of mr. ailes at fox to find out what he was like as a boss as a figure, to see if these advances were made. >> do you have any other

allegations from women who did or do work for fox news? >> i no there's a grave concern for people who are fearful of speaking out. this is a case in which when gretchen carlson talked to a small local outlet, she was rebuked for doing so on a completely benign topic. >> the "new york post" has not mentioned this lawsuit, i mention that because murdock owns the "new york post." "the wall street journal" which he also has. we're talking about the coverage of this story, we're talking here on cnn, a rifle val of fox but yet this is a massive story that everybody in the tv business is talking about. what is your impression about how fox has handled it so far.

>> you expect it, brian, if you have followed it so far, you know that they were coming out swinging. >> by reading the memo-- >> let's talk about that, fox has a very sophisticated very aggressive, very even nasty operation where they attack opponents and they put stuff in the hands of reporters at certain places and there's a lot of ways that that game is played and you saw that happening. i could tell where things were being placed by what was showing up in the first couple of days of this. that's the way the game's played. i hate it, i have never played it with fox and i don't like it. they're going to do that. it's going to be tough. you know, as a matter of fact i do want to say something, brian, about gabriel sherman in the first thing. i read his reporting, i read his work, i read his work, if they come after him that way, i think

reporters like us need to stand behind his work, because he does good work and he's a good reporter and all that. i think everybody knows what kind of hardball fox plays on this sort of thing. >> when you say this thing going on, you don't mean sexual harassment at fox. >> no, no, no. i'm talking about undercutting swung who tries to report against fox, trying to bully reporters who are trying to report this story. thank you for that clarification, i didn't mean sexual harassment at all. he had walter congreronkite, th his channel, it's built on hiss ego, and when you account about stepping aside, you can't ask him to step aside unless he's

going to -- they will fall apart if he's not in the lead. everyone i have ever talked to over there has almost a personal roger ailes story and they're personally loyal to him. everything about it, the culture of that network seems to me to be a culture of personality. that he gave this little startup, the swagger and the arrogance to become what it is. but if that's go is involved in treating women the way carlson allegati alleges, that could take them down. >> it seems to me that this is a moment in which the interests of fox news and roger ailes may divert in the eyes of the murdock family. >> it's not against fox, it's against ailes. >> right now the public relations war is one in which fox is really on the defensive

and really taking incoming fire. at the same time, the legal fights, the murdock family is responding a little differently. when bill o'reilly was sued for sexual harassment, he was let go for wrong doing, and amount of that was on tape. gretchen carlson says they have documentation. >> there might be reportings, but we don't know. >> but nonetheless, the murdock family have not denied reports that they are hiring outside counsel to do this. this gets it out of internal control. there was not an outside counsel to do this when bill o'reilly was accused of the same thing. they did not appoint an outside counsel to do that. this is a different model.

i think a lot of this has to do with the fact that you have rupert murdock transitioning the control of the company to his sons. what you're seeing now i think is this tension between rupert murdo murdock's loyalty, and his sons wanting to -- >> should ailes step aside during the company probe, i have asked 20th century fox if he's in charge or not. i think as of today he is. but the murdocks have not said a word on this. >> one of the interesting threats is how does this affect fox? how do they cover this issue? i have been told that one of the issues that fox was intending to

pursue was bill clinton's sexual actions towards, say, a subordinate, does this make it more complicated for them to go after that story? >> it's fas naturing. we'll be back in a moment here. coming up here in turn, gosh, what a week. you know, a pair of deadly shootings caught on camera, then a murderous rampage of dallas police officers. sometimes you feel like you're speechless talking about it. you don't know what to say. but i want to ask if the media is making it better or worse. we'll be right back. preservatives, sweeteners. no colors from artificial sources. 100% of our food will be clean by year's end. that's food as it should be. ♪ so we know how to cover almost almoanything.hing, even a ufh2o.

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it has been to put it simply a bad week. has the media coverage made it worse? the media has covered the

shootings of philando castile. in and of itself, the nonstep coverage has an effect on people's perceptions of what's going on. particularly the television coverage, what is being debated, who is being interviewed? it's been hard sometimes to get a word in edge wise on cable news. >> excuse me, sir, i let you speak, you're going to let me speak. >> let me finish my point because -- >> shame on you. >> why don't you be quiet, why don't you listen. you're so arrogant, you can't even hear. >> you're saying the same things that led -- >> let's talk about this in more detail with our panel.

thank you all for being here this morning. and let me start with you, tomi, am i mispronouncing your name? >> it's tommy, like the boy's name. sam sanders said in dallas, it's actually much better on the ground that on the internet. i'm wondering, you're there, is that true? is that what you're sensing among your neighbors? >> dallas has really come together in the aftermath of this particular ambush. last night i was driving in downtown las and our uptown, everything is lit up in blue. everybody's talking about backing the blue and blue lives do in fact matter, so dallas is strong and coming together. >> we have heard conservative radio show rush limbaugh call -- covering police violence, police

brutality. do you prescribe to that idea that blm are a black supremacist group? >> they were seeking equality and to bring attention to things in their community. in the wake of ferguson, we saw looting, we saw rioting, we saw burning down of communities, though this is not all of the protesters, we do see some that are holding signs saying ax the police, kill all pigs, and social media, thouey are postin horrific things. >> is there a danger of reading too much into the worst of humanity, whether it's the far right or far left of the line. rather than focusing on the core of most people? >> i think right now our anger on both sides are killing us.

it's killing us -- >> i think, bryan, you can't exclude what's happening on social media anymore. because it's absolutely there. we are not, i mean this is a, you know, sounds like duh, but we are not gate keepers in any way, shape or form anymore to this discussion. the difference is when you had gate keepers in, with all the sins of our system. before you got to publish, you were socialized to a set of values that said, like -- it was like driver ed, be careful, you can destroy career with these words, you can inflame things with these words and they didn't let you publish until you were a responsible drive. social media, they put the worst things out there, they publish in the midst of this heightened

warfare almost. and then they take it down, duh, i was wrong. that's so wrecklereckless, it's working with the media who are doing that. it's really uncouple bent on the people who own the flplatform. it's not enough to have somebody on, it's awful and it den greats a whole group, and you take it down and you say never mind. >> we saw the dallas pd yesterday saying that the media was reporting misinformation, saying that shots had been fired outside the police department, actually the police had been doing their jobs to enter a locked fence. you can see the complaints from the police department there. let me pivot back the position of who's speaking on social media too.

and joe walsh was on cnn tonight with don lemon. joe walsh made a number of tweets, saying there was a threat against the president. i have heard a lot of people online on social media saying he should not be allowed on cnn it's airwaves. what do you make of that? >> it was disappointing to see that he was given a platform to promote a dog whistle to racists, as well as to use coded language and overt threats that were undermining legitimate movement work to help bring people together as well as end state violence against black people. >> brian, i think -- i have thought about this and i agree with jamia, i totally agree with her feeling about this. but on the other hand, i feel

that those voices have to be explored. they have to be not necessarily heard in their own voice, but put in some kind of context. my compromise would be, you talk about what walsh said, but you don't bring him on, you talk about it with people, you have spokes like jamia, you have a panel like this and let us talk about it. by doing this, you're saying this man is irresponsible in this kind of rhetoric, you need to know it's out there, but we're going to try to conte conceptual's and talk about it. >> si actually worry that we're not hear that maybe half or more than half of the country that's pro civil rights for example. >> if you disagree with what

somebody is posting on social media, you bring them on and you allow them to talk about it. you allow them to clarify and you have that open and honest conversation, as i have asked to do on many of the platforms that have said i went too far. you bring that person on and let them speak for themselves. >> you did go too far, you did. >> that is your opinion. >> si wish it was your employer's opinion. what you did appalls me. let's end it. i'm trying to be civil about it. >> a, i'm not a journalist, i'm a commentator and i'm allowed to have my opinions and i stand behind what i say. when you're honest and you bring it forth, you're immediately labeled and you immediately criticized. what the media wants to do is silence people who disagree with

them. i don't play that game. >> the kind of ignorance that your detail put out there in our history. >> si do agree that there's divisive language out there. i agree that some of the things that i said come from a place of anger about what happened in my city of dallas. but make no mistake, the first amendment applies to everyone. and t and. >> tommy, david, thank you very much for being here. i think it's important that we not cut off these conversations, we have other guests we want to hear from. before we go from this conversation, though, we have a number of arrests, the number of detensions of reporters this weekend. this is friday night in rochester, new york, two reporters from a local station, the only african-american reporters actually on the scene of this protest who were taken

away. according to the station manager, they were very concerned by this. but the journalists were released pretty quickly and the police department did apologize. in baton rouge, there's been at least two detentions of reporters at protests last night. this is deray mckesson, who was arrested last night. how it is changing citizen journalism in bold new ways, we'll be right back. hey there, starting your search for the right used car? i don't want one that's had a bunch of owners

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welcome back to reliable sources. this morning one of the leaders of the black lives matter movement is deray mckesson. the only way we knew he was arrested was he was shooting live. in this case he's using per scope. but live streaming is one of the threads that connects all of this week's tragic stories. diamond reynolds live streamed

on facebook making her friends eyewitnesses to the shooting in minnesota. protesters in dallas were live shooting the shootings. at one point one of the videos zoomed in on the bodies on the ground. if anyone feels like they're not part of the main stream media is increasingly able to produce their own media. my panwe were texting in the mie of the night last night, have you slept and how is the staff doing after the events of the past few stays? >>'re all affected by the

emotion of the situation but it's helpful to have a story to tell and a community to serve. most of the hard work is done by the people you see behind me. >> you think through these issues, there's a media coverage of these stories, what has been missing? what has been lacking? especially in the main stream media coverage, the television coverage of both the police involved shootings and the ambush in dallas? >> there's one thing we would never have seen that diamond reynolds video through traditional media outlets. certainly the discomfort, the extreme discomfort of witnessing someone sky before your eyes, i think it's something that people have been very hesitant to broadcast on main stream media. the bigger question is that people have said that we have to

kind of bypass media, because we want the broader community to see what's happening. >> do you agree that it's increasingly important to go around main stream gate keepers, so that there aren't any gate keepers at all? >> i do agree with that statement, but i don't agree with the amount of showing of the deaths in the videos we have seen. this is not something new anymore. this is not something that just started yesterday, this is not something that is a surprise, we have been being murdered by police for decades. this is stories you have been told by your grandparents, your cousins, by your nephews, this is something that has been very, very -- it hasn't been heard, it hasn't been believed. it's always what did you do, how did you get yourself into that situation, and we're seeing that these people weren't in these situations, but at a certain point, you can't keep watching

black death over and over. the trauma's happening to a community across the nation, because this is no longer local'sed, as social media has continued to grow and as social media has continued to push these stories, you see these things and communities are being connected across the country, but at the same time, communities are being traumatized greatly. i know that we're being murdered, i don't need to see it with my own eyes, because the fact is it's not going to -- if you need to see someone get murdered to understand that maybe racism is still a part of america, that maybe racism is part of the problem, maybe you didn't care in the first place. >> to see these videos over and over again on our most personal of devices, our cell phone screens. how do we have all these conversations at once? guns and violence and media and all these conversations at once?

>> i think it's been part of the conversation. i completely with respect where he's coming from and the idea of people having this kind of consistent and recurring trauma of seeing these images is one that resonates deeply with me. at the same time, i teach about lynching and one of the primary means that we have of documenting lynching is that people actually sent postcards, people were so depraved that they sent postcards, as kind of recreational things saying these are the images of these people who are dead. and the moment it happens is absolutely horrific and inhumane, but in the long-term, this is actually mart of our record, the way that we're able to document the inhumanity that we have witnessed and survived in this country. so that's the counter balance here. the other part was guns. >> another common thread, i actually believe that the gun debate hasn't really been had

this week, it's all been about race. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good buy with a gun. we saw what happened in dallas, there was one individual who was armed and was able to shoot 12 other armed and highly trained individuals before he was cornered and taken out. and so the kind of idea that a highly armed society automatically equates to one that is safer, it seems that dallas refutes that. >> let me pause here, and come back with all of the guests here in a moment. i want to go back to dallas and mike's newsroom, "the dallas morning news," a quick break. be right back. i found her wandering miles from home. when the phone rang at 5am, i knew it was about mom.

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welcome back. let's look at the front page of "the dallas morning news." a tear drop image. the editor is joining me.

mike, why the front page editorial today? >> you know, after a couple of days running on this story and covering a lot of pain and a lot of noise, we wanted to step back and have a quiet place to talk about what this means for the community and the front page is meant to be that quiet place. >> you just tweeted it's a first for me. i fear, however, the audience need to see it to understand. elam, let me get your reaction to that. >> here's the thing. for some people, yes, they need to see violence in order to understand violence. we've been showing violence on television for decades. people watched rodney king be beat in the street and people still don't believe it. the fact is, the media has to take responsibility for some of this problem. media uses black death as a point of reference, as a point to sensationalize and get ratings. it's unnecessary.

if you want to do the job that media is supposed to do, they should be having these conversations when there isn't a murder video on there. they should be having a conversation when they are talking to presidential candidates asking them about the black death as opposed to ramble on what they think should happen in the black community and not get real answers so we know what will happen. >> one last point here. media silos. everyone is so damn siloed. i don't even know if the fox news viewers knew about these shootings in detail. what do you do? >> you have the al a carte media. >> you have to force ourselves to -- >> it was also the nra as well. >> at this moment, we have to force ourselves, i think, to be better than those silos. unfortunately, i'm out of time. thank you all for being here. we'll see you back here next

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thin blue line. the nation mourns five dallas police officers murdered by a domestic terrorist. new details on his background, his arsenal and his journal. the latest from the dallas police chief. >> this must stop, the divisiveness between our police and our citizens. plus, can the nation come together? after a week of exceptional violence. america seems on edge. what can the white house do?