this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. we'll begin today in the united states, in baton rouge, minnesota and in dallas. divides that seem to be shaking the nation. why are these tensions exploding now? how does america move forward?

we'll bring you thoughtful perspectives from america and abroad. also, the president of mexico, in an exclusive interview responding for the first time in depth to donald trump's claims and charges. >> i will build a great, great wall on our southern border and i will have mexico pay for that wall. mark my words. >> there is no way that mexico can pay a wall like that. but first here's my take. in 1944, the swedish social scientist gunner murdolph, published a landmark study of the united states titled "the american dilemma." he posited that over the course of american history, white prejudice have kept african-americans low in standards of living, health, education and manners and morals.

but those low standards conformed and wry inforced white prejudice setting off a depressing spiral. it's tragic to say that in 2016, 54 years later, those words seem to strike a cord. these are not simply cruel and abominable acts, but deeply dangerous. civilization rests on the rule of law and that rests on respectful officers of the law. i have never liked hearing marching crowds that chant slogans like "no justice, no peace." this is a not so veiled threat against civil society. we all rely on the police and other elements of the criminal justice system, to build order,

which is the building block of justice. look at countries like iraq and libya today, where order has collapsed. the rule of law has been replaced by the law of the jungle. but it's also worth noting that the rule of law gains credibility when it is seen as fair and that america has a problem in this regard. president obama this week cited some data that is worth repeating. >> according to various studies, not just one, but a wide range of studies that have been carried out over a number of years, african-americans are 30% more likely than whites to be pulled over. after being pulled over, african-americans and hispanics are three times more likely to be searched. last year, african-americans were shot by police at more than twice the rate of whites. african-americans are arrested

at twice the rate of whites, african-american defendants are 75% more likely to be charged with offenses, carrying mandatory minimums. they receive sentences that are almost 10% longer than comparable whites arrested for the same crime. so that if you add it all up, the african-american and hispanic population, who make up only 30% of the general population, make up more than half of the incarcerated population. >> take a state like maryland, where blacks make up 29% of the state's population, but a staggering 72% of its prison population. something has gone wrong with the criminal justice system in america. i don't pretend there is an easy solution, but i do believe we need to all recognize that there is a bigger problem than we want to admit. one final point, we need to keep

numbers and statistics in mind after one of these traumatic weeks, just as we do after a terror attack. you can feel safe in america today. law and order does exist. it does not need to be restored. the vast, vast majority of cops in the country do their very dangerous jobs admirably and fairly. we should not generalize for a small number of incidents about the force in general. the same is true of course about african-americans, the vast, vast majority of whom it should go without saying are law abiding citizens. if we can remember to see people as individuals and not as caricatures and stereotypes, that in itself would be a small step on a road to progress. let's get started. ♪

in the wake of the shootings this week in the united states, the small caribbean commonwealth of the bahamas has issued a travel warning to its citizens, 90% of whom are black. the key part of the warning says this, young males are asked to exercise stream caution in affected cities in their interactions with the police. is this how the world now sees america? is this the realty of today's america? if so, what's to be done about it. joining me to discuss all this in new york, is john mccorder. in atlanta, angela rye is with us, she's the former congressional director of the black caucus, a lawyer and a cnn contributor. and in paris, france's best known philosopher, he is an activist and frequent visitor to

america. bernard, let me start with you and ask you, what does it look like to you, you are a great lover of the united states, you wrote a book once where you retraced taupville's footsteps in america, when you hear about a week like this, when you watch it, what do you make of it? >> my dear fareed, i can hardly hear you, because it is a very special day today in france, as you can hear, it's the last day of the march of the football match, it is very noisy around. but i hear you. it's very sad for me, i was remembering all week the first speech i every heard from barack obama, it was 12 years ago, he was in boston, in the democratic convention in boston, he said, there is no longer white america and black america. there is no longer red america

or blue america, there is united states of america. when you see the situation, post ferguson, post dallas, there is so much heart breaking, and a friend of america who i am, and who we all are in paris, we are really concerned about what is happening in the united states of america these days. we have to fight that with all possible cold blood of course. i know that america will prevail on that. but it is in a way so sad and so heart breaking. >> when you look at this, you wrote something in the guardian that i was very struck by. you talked about the contrast between your experience as a man of african origin in britain, versus in america. explain how those are different?

>> well, i suppose in the uk, we have problems with police, and this year we saw the hillsborough inquest. and police in the uk, there can be problems, there can be problems around race, we have seen steve lawrence and their interaction there. but around people of color in the uk, they're very rarely deadly. that seems to be the difference. when it comes to america, when i first got here in 2014, it was eric gardner, there was michael brown and there was this kind of run of young african-american men unarmed being killed by the police. that is just shocking. it's shocking to be in a country where you are exposed to that and that's on your doorstep around the corner. >> in britain, most cops aren't armed. in the united states, the general population is armed, but in britain, the bobbies, even the police officers don't have guns, but is there also a

difference in the kind of trust and interaction, the profiling that takes place immediately by both sides? >> i think there are definitely issues, if you look at stop and search, in big areas like london. there's a lot of tension between police and communities of color. we had riots in the '70s and the '80s, so there is a mistrust of police and people of color at times in the uk. it's not simple to say it does not exist, but there's a difference in america. in this instance it seems that guns are the problem. police are interacting with people that they don't know if they have guns or not. in 2011, the martin gunther was killed, people came together and said what is going on in this country, if that was exacerbated

by more people killing police, it would -- >> it's something like more people die of gun violence in the united states, it's 30,000 due to gun suicides. angela, let me ask you, when you look at this, is this the common american experience, when you think about baton rouge and the interaction with police, is this something that you think is part of african-american life? >> well, i think a couple of things, fareed. the first thing i would say to you is that there may be a common thread, right, but african-americans are certainly not monolithic in this country, there are differences, if -- i was born on the west coast for example in seattle, my

experiences are vastly different from someone who grew up in philadelphia or new york, and they're different from what you see in the south. i think the one thing that i will say is common, is that when i'm driving down the street in my vehicle, and if a police car is behind me, whether the lights are on or not, i get extremely nervous and i venture to say that i speak for a number of african-americans, not all. i think at some point the issue, we have to id, and that's just identify, the fact that so much of this comes from the root of racism and what racism has done to every group in this country. that's what this country was rebuilt upon, because that is not how the indigenous people intended, when white people got here, this was a system that was built on the systematic oppression of people of color. and until we're comfortable, fareed talking about that, talking about the roots of racism and all of its societal

ills, we're going to continue to have this problem, because this issue is not unique to law enforcement exclusively. this is a problem we see in our economic systems, it's a problem we see in education, it's a problem we see across the board, because if you inherently believe that i am not equal, if you inherently believe that i'm three-fifths of a human being, you don't value my life the same and that's a problem. when we come back, i will ask john mccorder about some controversial statements he made. this week he will explain.

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"gps." joining me here in new york are john mccorder, angela rye and bernard joining us from paris. john, let me ask you about some comments you made about -- you said that if black lives matters really was worried about black lives, it should keep in mind that black-on-black violence is the overwhelming majority of the problem. and i want to tell you what i have heard from some cops, which is honest cops who will say, we go into these neighborhoods, predominantly african-american neighborhoods, we know there's a much more likelihood of violence there. we have lived that experience, about 50% of violent crime in the united states is committed by african-americans. so they're saying, look, that's why in the heat of the moment, we react as we do.

>> oh, i have no doubt that there's a fantasy vision of black lives matter, and it is mine, where black lives matter addresses both white cops killing black men and also the homicides that happen in black neighborhoods that black men are much more danger of suffering, i stand by that fantasy vision. but this week the topic is racism and without a doubt if anyone thinks that black people go on too much about racism. but there's certainly a lot of talk about what cultural appropriation is, when it comes to the relationship between the black community and the cops, we're talking about a house that's mostly burned down but the chimney that's still standing, if we could get by this knot about black cops and in particularly black men, we

could be getting past race. it's not cultural appropriation or whether somebody used the "n" word, this is tearing the world apart. i have been studying race for 20 years and the main thing i have found is that if there's anything in the way that people talk about race and racism, at the root of it is this grievous problem where too many black people are killed by cops for essentially no reason. and if that's not true, many people say that it's a distortion to say that this is a black problem and race has nothing to do with it. we need to see a list of white people in the past ten years, who have been killed in similar circumstances, not just killed by cops, killed for no particular reason, until we see that list, i think we can say that being black is central to this problem, and until this goes away, we are not past race in this country. >> america has this great reputation of being able to

integrate minorities, you look at it again from the outside and you often affirm that quality, do you think that race, that the african-american experience is america's distinctive problem and we simply have not come to grips with it? >> fareed, i would reply from a foreign point of view. which is that america is an unpoliticized country. there is a lot of politics and half politics in america. politics in a french and a european sense, a very strong sense of political struggle. and number two, i remember when i made a long trip in deep america ten years ago on the footsteps of taupville, i could see how much the race issue was unfortunately a political wound.

a lot has been done for sure for 50, 60 years, but it is not over. but the race, and i'm not surprised, at the root of all the tragedies that have happened in the last months and years. and what should be said from abroad also, is that unfortunately, you have sometimes in america a topic campaign, when i see a cop pick campaign that is thrown up in one of the candidates, by donald trump, it will not help to reunify this country. if i was an american today, i would say that two things are important. number one, to say black lives matter. this is so important. but number two, if i were an american, i would say policemen lives matter. if the american public opinion

and opinion leaders can unite and do two things, black lives matter, policemen lives matter. then america would prevail and would gain on this terrible tragedy of the last battle wounds. policemen lives matter, black lives matter. when we come back, we will ask about one other life, how does it play in that we have an african-american commander in chief. barack obama's role when we come back. , dairy or artificial flavors. so we invented a word that means that. shmorange! and it rhymes with the color of our bottle. hey, baby, make it your first word! (baby babble) not even close. reach for the orange, it's 100% shmorange! our vitamins contain no gluten, dairy or artificial flavors. so we invented a word that means that. shmorange! and it rhymes with the color of our bottle. to help spread the word, we made t-shirts!

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we are back with our panel. angela, what do we make of the fact that we have an african-american president? there is a theory, the fact that you have allowed in a member of an excluded minority, in a strange way gives you license to continue the old battery of discrimination, that after you go to the gym, you have earned

the right to have a milk shake. does the fact that you have elected an african-american actually could mean a certain reversion to patterns of discrimination? >> it certainly appears to be the case, i think even that you use the term allowed. that he was allowed to be there. that's a term that was never used to describe the 43 presidents that preceded him. i hope i don't get in trouble with a person on my team for sharing, after these shootings he was in tears, he said i can't believe that this is our experience and we have a black man in the white house, that this continues to be our experience, one that we can certainly identify with from all of our ancestors, and to see that this is the realty in 2016 when we may be on the verge of electing our first woman president, it's disheartening. i think people thought they were doing the right thing, i'll check the box and allow this man to become president, and it will show that because you all have

made it, that i don't have to -- the vestiges of slavery, and i think that we would be remiss if we believe that is in fact the case. or the remiss if that was in fact the case. if you compare donald trump -- and i hate to make this political, but if you compare donald trump and what he is allowed to do compared to barack obama and what he can't do, the things that are allowed to come out of donald trump's mouth that barack obama could never say, i think that is illuminating in and of itself. the fact that his campaign slogan could be make america great again and that pains me and the fact that he could reference something like operation wetback in a debate where hundreds of our mexican brothers and sisters were killed, slaughtered and taken

out of this country because someone didn't allow them to be here anymore is exactly the problem. the last time america was great to me, fareed, was in 2008, when he was elected president and ever since then we've been paying the price for that. >> you're a british citizen and you're married. when you think about having children, you said something interesting to me. >> yeah. i just think when you look at what is going on in america and every time i turn on the tv, watch cnn, watch "new day" with the guys, another black person has been killed by the police. not every day but there have been runs of that this week. it's shocking and it's not normal. it's not right. i grew up in a country where that didn't happen. most people grow up in countries where that does not happen and i don't want to bring up a child in a country where they think it's normal. it's absolutely horrific.

i don't want to bring someone into the world and put them in that context. it's not right. >> fascinating conversation. thank you all. bernard, best of all to france. we hope they win the soccer match. the football match. sorry. next on "gps," an exclusive interview with the president of the mexico. what about trump's claims that mexico is exporting drug dealers and rapists to america? i asked him about that. when we come back. it's in the quiet moments when you see why she does this.

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they are called the three amigos. president obama, ka and canadian and mexican president, their relationship is anything but awkward. the three men have further solidified relations between what the world has called the most powerful economic block, north america.

but what would a trump presidency do to this system? i sat down with an exclusive interview with mexico's president on the sidelines of the meeting at ottawa's historic hall. thank you for being with us. >> it is my pleasure to be here. thank you, fareed. >> let me ask you, as the president of mexico, how you respond to a very specific charge that the republican front-runner, the presumptive nominee has made. trump has said after explaining his initial comments about mexico, he said i'm going to quote, so i get it exactly right. what can be more simply and accurately stated, the mexican government is forcing their most unwanted people into the united states, they are in many cases criminals, drug dealers, rapists, et cetera. is that true?

>> i'll try to say this in english to cover a very clear statement on what i have said more than once. for my government, for me as president. i am very respectful on the democratic process that's taking place in the u.s. we are not part of that decision that has to be made by the american society. i believe that any of the candidates, mrs. clinton, mr. trump, i'm sure that both of them would like to build good conditions and better wellness for their people. so my position is very clear. we are very respectful to whomever is elected. we want to build positive and

constructive relation among mexico and to whomever becomes president of the united states. >> but he makes a very specific charge about your government. he says that you are sending the most unwanted people from mexico, criminals, rapists, drug dealers, that the mexican government is actually sending these people to the united states. is that true? >> that is not true. i categorically deny it. what is true is that both governments are working together, have a close relationship in order to bottle these kind of guys. there are drug leaders, which have a place to work, mexico and united states, both governments are given the battle to them.

those people who are living in the illegal position, those that are breaking the law, i believe that there is a cause for both governments to face, to deal and to work together in order to put these people in jail. >> so donald trump's main policy proposal, the one he began his campaign with, is that he intends to build a wall between the united states and mexico, along the border, and he intends to get mexico to pay for it. >> there is a way to help mexico pay for a wall, but any decisions inside the united states is a decision of its government. >> but under no circumstances would mexico pay for a wall? >> there is no way that mexico can pay a wall like that. but that's a decision for the government of the united states. let me switch to spanish, because i think i can say more precisely what i want to say. >> translator: what matters here is to place this relationship into context, we have to make it very clear that development and prosperity in the united states is built necessarily through the prosperity of its neighboring

countries. we also have to bear in mind that the security of the united states is linked with the security of its neighboring countries and this is what we have built. and i'll say it again, this is what we have been doing with the u.s. government. we have a relationship of coordination, of collaboration and of cooperation in the area of security. precisely in order to have security in mexico, to have security in the u.s. we are journey companions, we are strategic partners working for security in north america. >> mexico has made significant progress and you have made some very significant reforms and yet when you hear rhetoric about mexicans as being rapists and drug dealers and criminals, how does that make you feel just as a person? >> translator: i cannot agree with such a generalization of mexicans.

there is no way to agree with a statement that describes mexicans in such a way. i believe that in every country there are individuals that are criminals that we need to fight and apply the full extent of the law. i also believe that our societies, and specifically in mexico and the u.s., are largely integrated. not many people know, for instance, that every single day 1 million people cross the border between mexico and the u.s. and they do it legally. every single day, 1 million people cross the border from the u.s. into mexico and from mexico into the u.s. and they do it legally. our commerce is intensive. more than 370,000 cars and trucks cross our borders.

this is a sign of how active our relationship is and the level of integration that mexico has with the u.s. and the u.s. with mexico. when we come back, i will ask mexico's president enrique pena nieto about el chapo guzman. now that he's back in custody, the united states wants him extradited. will mexico allow it? ♪ bud light party here to discuss equal pay. women don't get paid as much as men and that is wrong. and we have to pay more for the same stuff. what? yeah. cars... what? dry cleaning... what? shampoo. what? you pay more but get paid less? that is double wrong. i'm calling everyone i know and i'm telling them about this.

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back now with more of my exclusive interview with mexico's president, enrique pena nieto. one of the things that -- steady flow of drugs from south to north. one of the things that americans

think of when they think of mexico is the drug wars and the cartels. one of the things people think about when they think about mexico is the drug wars and the drug cartels. is it your sense that your government is finally winning these wars and that this will, five years from now, be a much diminished and smaller problem in mexico? >> translator: i don't know if these battles will ever come to an end. but what i can tell you is that this administration has been able to revert the growing trend of insecurity that our country had in 2012. the number of malicious crimes, such as murders, kidnappings and extortions have come down. i must acknowledge that some regions in our country still face strong issues in the areas

of security and we are fighting that. but in general terms, i would say that, yes, mexico has seen progress. yes, we have provided more security to our people. but we still have to keep fighting in this arena. >> a mexican judge has stayed the order of extradition of el chapo to the united states. now, this makes a lot of people very nervous. this is a man who has twice escaped from mexico's high security prisons. obviously bribed people along the way. it does make people wonder, is he now bribing judges? can you assure us that el chapo will be extradicted to the united states? >> translator: it is an effort that the government, through the general attorney's office, is working towards, the extradition. with this legal procedure, the

government shows a clear and firm intention to extradite this criminal. it is a fact that, yes, he has evaded twice. but but i hope that since to the united states. >> how did he manage to escape? he must have bribed so many people to be able to do that.

>> translator: it is hard to say. anything that i would say would be pure speculation. but what matters to me is that he is in prison. what matters to me is that we recaptured him. in a three-year span, we recaptured him once and captured him again. more than 12 years have passed and he had not been captured and this administration caught him twice. of course, investigations are going on to identify someone was aiding his escape or not but what matters is that he is in jail and he is prosecuted. >> amnesty international is just out with a report on mexico and it is a pretty critical report about torture in mexican prisons, the use of rape, sexual violence against women. do you believe that that report

is accurate and, if so, what are you doing about it? >> translator: there is no doubt that we have a human rights challenge. we have seen progress. we have managed to strengthen our legal framework, our legal foundations. to date, we have new laws that aim to advance and protect fundamental human rights. you will find in our constitution the rights that are protected in international treaties. but this cannot happen overnight, nor can it be achieved by enacting new laws. we need to create a new culture specifically in the institutions that mexico has and even more in the institutions that enforce

the law. it takes an effort to create a new culture so that their actions are ruled by protocols which, evidently, are poised for the respect of the human rights. and it is still a work in progress. although i can affirm that there have been improvements and that human rights recommendations issued for mexico decreased, as compared to the number of recommendations that there were 3 1/2 years ago, i must recognize that we have a lot to accomplish. two pieces of legislation are up for debate in congress. the act against torture and the disappearance act. we want to have a stronger legal framework and fight these practices. i think we have made progress but, at the same time, a blunt statement and just to say that mexico is a country where there is no respect for human rights and liberties is a mistake. but we must say that, yes,

progress has been made but we still have a lot to do. >> mr. president, pleasure to have you on. thank you very much. next on "gps," patriotic rap from "hamilton" to china. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ pretty much over. show's (friend) wish we could start it from the beginning. (jon bon jovi) with directv, you can. you see, we've got the power to turn back time let's start over, let's rewind and let's go back and not quit the gym and have a chance to say goodbye to grampy tim oh, that's the power to turn back time. (vo) get the ultimate all-included bundle. call 1-800-directv.

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earlier this week, nasa's probe juno successfully entered jupiter's orbit after a five-year journey from earth. the main goal is to understand how the largest planet in the solar system was formed. it's expected to orbit jupiter 37 times over the next 20 months, concluding with a planned suicidal descent towards the planet in early 2018. it brings me to my question, how many years has the longest continuously operated space probe been up and running for nasa? 12 years, 21, 29 or 38 years? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week is "just mercy" by bryan stevenson.

he uncovered racism and corruption all permeating the criminal justice system. the book is beautifully written and will give all of these police shooting videos a sad and deep context. and now for the last look. here in new york, the hottest ticket ever is a musical about a famous founding father. ♪ alexander hamilton >> well, patriotic hip-hop is going global. last week, this video made the rounds in china. ♪ the stylishly produced video is worth listening to because the lively tone, rap lyrics and upbeat images are all in service

of classic state propaganda. ♪ the video is remarkably detailed, talking about pollution, corruption and technological advances. ♪ now, you can't find that kind of useful information in "hamilton," can you? the correct answer to the "gps" challenge question is "d," voyager 2 has been exploring safe for 38 years and counting. after passing jupiter, saturn and neptune, nasa is now exploring the outer reaches of the solar system. in cases discovered by extra terrorist tree yell, there's a record that includes dozens of languages. >> hello from the children of

planet earth. >> various musical selections. ♪ and one tweet from donald trump. i am, of course, just kidding about that last one. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hello. thanks for joining me. i'm suzanne malveaux. president obama right now is heading back to washington and is going to travel to dallas on tuesday. we have just learned this. he's delivering remarks at an interfaith memorial service for the five officers killed in last week's ambush. we're learning shocking new revelations from the dallas police chief about the final moments in that standoff downtown. a gunman writing the message in his own blood on the walls of his hideout. the chief's transparency comes after a