chilling new details about a credible and very disturbing plot to kill police officers in louisiana. the arrests come amid the growing tension over the deadly police shootings over two black men this week. we want >> reporter: good morning, poppy and chris. when you listen to each president -- you had president george w. bush and president barack obama both standing in front of a crowd, you hear the same message from them. the message was that america needs to unite. but one of the hardest parts of all of this is going to come today with three officers being laid to rest today. those officers are michael thompson, brent ahrens, michael smith, lorne ahrens, and brent

thompson. >> we are not as divided as we seem. >> reporter: president obama urging the country to unite at a memorial service for the five police officers killed in dallas. >> i know how far we've come against impossible odds. race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime. >> reporter: the president trying to once again to console the nation. >> my faith tells me that they did not die in vain. i believe our sorrow can make us a better country. i believe our righteous anger can be transformed into more justice and more peace. >> reporter: for the 11th time in his presidency, he addressed a city reeling from another mass shooting. the president visibly frustrated by this reality. >> i have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. i've hugged too many families who have lost a loved one to senseless violence. >> reporter: president obama

acknowledging both the plight of police officers and the grievances of the community they serve. >> insisting we do better to root out racial bias is not an attack on cops, but an effort to live up to our highest ideals. we cannot match the sacrifices made by officers zamarripa and ahrens, krol, smith, and thompson, but surely we can try to match their sense of service. >> reporter: those five officers represented by these empty seats, draped in uniform, hats, and folded american flags. >> these slain officers were the best among us. >> reporter: calling dallas home, former president george w. bush offering his condolences and reminding the country of the force that unites us all. >> we recognize that we are brothers and sisters sharing the same brief moment on earth and owing each other the loyalty of

our shared humanity. >> reporter: the city's top cop, david brown, receiving a standing ovation for his leadership in this crisis. the chief honoring his fallen comrades. >> there's no greater love than this. these five men gave their lives for all of us. >> reporter: reciting lyrics from stevie wonder's "i'll be loving you always." >> until the ocean covers every mountain, and i've got to say, always, i'll be loving you always. >> reporter: the president also took time early on tuesday to personally call the families of the two men killed by police last week, but i do want to reiterate that the families will be laying to rest these three officers, brent thompson, michael smith, and lorne ahrens.

this will be a hard day for dallas. >> it absolutely will be. thank you so much for that beautiful piece. at the same time, as the country is focusing on those fallen officers, tension is high in louisiana after police there, after the shooting death of alton sterling a week ago. police have announced they've foiled a plot aimed to kill their own police officers. we're live in ban ton rouge wit the latest developments. this is absolutely stunning. >> reporter: yeah, stunning and extremely disturbing. it all started as a pawnshop burglary here in town. it's now risen to the level of being a credible threat against police officers here in baton rouge. let me explain what happened. we were told there was a break-in at a local pawnshop over the weekend. about eight handguns were stolen. during the course of the investigation, authorities were able to track down at least three individuals and detain them, one of which 17-year-old antonio thomas telling investigators they planned to look for bullets to kill police.

obviously investors still following up on those threats, but they are also using this as an opportunity to explain what has been a truly impressive police presence at some of the demonstrations that have taken place here in baton rouge since the initial shooting of alton sterling. take a listen. >> what you saw in the response is because of the very real and viable threats against law enforcement. all i can say beyond that is look what happened in dallas. a very peaceful protest and then some crazy madman did what he did. so i think the threat speaks for itself. >> reporter: again, it's been just over a week since the alton sterling shooting, but it's been seven days since the sound of gunfire erupted there in dallas. that's one of several reasons why authorities here are at a heightened sense of alert. there's a second possible threat. investigators are following up on reports there was an individual following one of the

baton rouge police officers here. investigators didn't go much into detail there. again, it just speaks to the level of awareness we're seeing by law enforcement here. >> even on high alert it seems these days. polo, thank you very much. let's discuss the implications of what's happening in dallas and where we are in dealing with the situation in this country right now. we have cnn political commentator and host of "the ben ferguson show," ben ferguson. we have cnn political commentator and host of b.e.t. news marc lamont hill. and former federal prosecutor laura koets. we know why we are in dallas. we know why these deaths matter. or we should know. we know what the challenges are going forward. we had two presidents try to lay it out yesterday. they both did so, i thought, with beautiful language. the question is, will the ideas be accepted? it seem the crux of it, the crux of the challenge was laid out by president obama this way. >> i understand how americans

are feeling. but dallas, i'm here to say we must reject such despair. i'm here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. i know that because i know america. i know how far we've come against impossible odds. >> how do you think that message will be received, marc? >> i think people will be inspired by it. i think people will be moved by it. the question you spoke to is will it lead to substantive change? i think it will not. the reason i say that is we are, in fact, divided. there's a huge gap in this country between how people perceive people and how other people perceive police. some see them as a protecting force. some see them as an occupying force. with those gaps there, we're going to maintain a divide. what we need to do at some point is have a deeper and more

thoughtful analysis of who police are, what police are in our community, and how we can either change the relationship between communities and police or change the role the police play, period. >> ben, i was listening to you yesterday. i know that you felt the first half of the speech was good, the second half of the speech when louisiana and minnesota were mentioned was not appropriate for the occasion. why? why don't you feel that you have to look at all these losses of life the same way? >> because i think dallas had nothing to do with those two instances. when you see these police officers, these five that were murdered and gunned down, their lives and what they did when they went to work every day had nothing to do with those other two cities. we're at a point now, i think, in this country where we're teetering on an issue of there is so much disrespect for police, and there are policemen around the country since dallas that have been targeted. their lives had nothing to do with the actions of what happened in st. paul or in baton

rouge. we still are getting mixed signals. there needs to be a clear signal. this is from policemen here that said this to me. my life and what i do every day in this city in a diversified police force that is incredibly involved in community policing had nothing to do with the bad actions of other police officers. yet, we still feel like we're all being held accountable with the possibility of our life taken from us because we have gotten into this grand debate without remembering that the police, the mass, mass majority are good people that go to work, that protect protesters, that protect people that disagree with them, just like we saw here in dallas. so there is a certain point here where we have to have the unequivocal backing of the police force as a whole. you can still call out bad police officers, as we should. you can still investigate police corruption, as we should. but there should be no debate outside of that with overall police. >> laura, put your mind to that.

obviously there was a simple answer to the proposition, we wouldn't be where we are. if there were a way to show unqualified support of the overall while condemning the few, we wouldn't be where we are right now. seems to be a balance that's difficult to strike. why? >> well, the problem that ben is talking about is actually what black americans are talking about in general. it's more simple than he's making it out to be. neither police officers nor black men or black americans in general would like to be judged by the few that are not law-abidi law-abiding, the ones that are doing the wrong thing. officers are asking the same thing that black americans are saying, which is my life is valuable, i have a role in society, and please respect that role. at the same time, let's have a collective condemnation of those who are not lawful. that's the same struggle that blacks are having against officers, and officers are now having against them. the president's words are very resonating for that reason. the divide is not as great

because we have the common objective of having accountability for those that are lawless. if we stop having the competing narratives of whose story is more impressive or has more thought-provoking emotion, then we can come to a common ground of saying, we already have a justice system in place that is designed to protect and ensure accountability. unless officers are held to the same standard, we're going to have a greater divide. >> i'm saying something slightly different. i agree with you. the idea of not holding an individual accountable for an entire system, it's compelling. i agree with that when it comes to black men. they shouldn't all be criminalized. police should all be demonized. i'm saying there's something structural here. we don't hate individual soldiers, but the military structure -- >> take one more step. people have a hard time accepting how you can say there is systemic racism, but you are not indicting all of the people within that system. in this case, all of the police officers. >> right. and that's why i used teacher

example. i can say public education is broken. there are great teachers who come in every single day and want to do a good job for the public good. if you're given a bad curriculum, if you're mandated to teach that curriculum, you're not given resources, the things you need, and you're forced to do a million other jobs, you're an agent of a system that's broken. i'm saying the individual cop might love people. he might love the community. he might live in that community. she might live in that community. that's not the issue. if you have laws that force you to overpolice one neighborhood and you have laws that force you to overcriminalize a particular group of people and you have a system that's broken from the time you get arrested to bail, the prosecutorial system is broken because of contract lawyering and all this other stuff, then it's not just about the individual cop's nature or his or her character. it's that the system is broken, and even against their best efforts, they can't do anything about this. i ain't demonizing cops. i'm saying the system doesn't work. >> ben, final point.

>> marc, here's the one thing though that is so frustrating about this conversation. the majority of what you just talked about, marc, dealt with a legal system that has nothing to do with the average police officer that puts a badge on and walks out in any city you had a police chief, who's african-american, and said most days we do not feel the support of community. please let us feel your support now. that's an overall encompassing point for police all over the country. there should not be debate about their purpose or what their intentions are in general. and there is still somehow debate to justify the anger or actions of people against police officers in a way where they're being targeted. when you have an african-american police chief in dallas who's doing it right, everyone has agreed he's doing it right, the way he polices communities, the way he has community policing, when he has african-american police force that jooutweighs the number of e population, and he still says, we do not feel like we have the support most days. that's a massive problem in this

country. >> all right. this is one step down the road of a conversation. we seem to take a step every day. that's a good thing. laura, marc, ben, thank you. ben, please extend our regards to where you are this morning. this is not an easy conversation, but that's exactly why we need to have it. you know what, even though there's a lot of attention on policing right now, doesn't make it any easier. in fact, it makes it more difficult to have this conversation because we're doing it from such a source of pain. tonight, we'll have more of this conversation. right on your screen you see "black, white & blue: america 2016" town hall hosted by don lemon tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern. meantime, big headlines this morning. donald trump is calling for supreme court justice ruth bad r er ginsburg to resign after she called him a, quote, faker, and a lot more in a cnn interview. escalating war of words heating up this morning. this is definitely a first. a public feud between a

presumptive presidential nominee and a sitting justice. >> reporter: good morning, po y poppy. you're absolutely right. donald trump has had a number of surprising political foes this campaign season. he's battled with members of his own party. at one time he was battling with the pope. now it's a supreme court justice. donald trump intensifying his battle with supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. trump now calling on ginsburg to step down, tweeting early this morning that justice ginsburg embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot, resign. in an interview with cnn, justice ginsburg blasted trump as a faker who really has an ego. house speaker paul ryan addressing the controversy in a cnn town hall last night. >> i think it's out of place for an appointed branch of government. that shows bias to me. >> reporter: meanwhile, trump playing to the hometown crowd last night.

coyly hinting indiana governor mike pence might get the vp nod. >> i don't know whether he's going to be a governor or vice president. who the hell knows. >> reporter: as trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick is coming this week. pence is aiming to prove his prowess on the campaign trail. >> i think it would be extremely careless to elect hillary clinton as the next president of the united states. >> reporter: the vice presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail. a string of shootings claiming police and civilians alike. >> these tragedies tear at our soul. >> reporter: clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias. >> get law enforcement the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. the tragedy of black men and women and black children being killed in police incidents. >> reporter: while trump says he

stands unequivocally on the side of police. >> the hostility against our police has to end. >> reporter: trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity with the shooter who kale e kile police officers in dallas. >> the other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. marches all over the united states and tough marches, anger, hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him, for the killer. >> reporter: now, trump has been noun to play fast and loose with the facts throughout this campaign, but he's already facing a little bit of blowback for that last comment there, which appears to be unsupported by any facts or reporting we've seen. trump is going to continue to fuel speculation today. unexpectedly, he decided to stay the night in indiana after campaigning with mike pence.

his campaign says he'll still be heading to california today for fundraisers. of course, we'll be waiting to see, chris. >> mike pence, sara murray, that's a name we'll be hearing a lot about today. we'll see where that leads. thank you for the reporting. so here's the latest turn in this election. on the list of things that you thought you would never see happen in an election. a supreme court justice is getting into it with a presidential candidate. ruth bader ginsburg has said critical things of donald trump not once, not twice. she says it, she owns it. now trump wants her to resign. what is right and wrong in this situation, and what will happen? next. at the beginning of the 21st century, the earth needed to find a new way to keep up with the data from over 30 billion connected devices. just 30 billion?

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welcome back to "new day." donald trump calling for supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg to resign. this is a first. this is after she made comments in an interview with cnn, very negative comments, about donald trump, calling him a faker and a

lot more. trump tweeted very early this morning, quote, justice ginsburg of the u.s. supreme court has made embarrassing -- has embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot, resign. joining us now to talk about this, cnn political analyst and host of "the david gregory show" podcast, david gregory, sara murray many indianapolis, and juana summers. this is a first, but who's surprised, but this election has taken so many twists and turns. david gregory, what's your reaction to the public brawl between trump and ginsburg ? >> it's so very much 2016. it's just in keeping with the bizarre nature of this race. every jurist i've known on the federal bench and certainly on the supreme kourlt ascourt as a

usually stays away from public engagement on political matters. it's not so today they don't have deep friendships in the capital with political figures. certainly antonin scalia had that and others have as well. justice ginsburg does as well. but generally speaking, i think this is highly unusual to comment so directly about a presidential candidate and to get in this kind of back and forth is i don't think anything that somebody wants to see. >> we got different layers to this, right, sara. are judges supposed to do this? we all know there's somewhat of an artificial notion about judges being apolitical. we deal with it all the time in confirmation processes, then they get on the bench and we see exactly who they are politically. but they don't do this. there's no code of behavior for the supreme court. she can say whatever she wants, but it avails her of conflict going forward. politically, sara, how do you think this plays? >> well, i think politically

that's why you've already seen a number of conservatives, including paul ryan last night, come out and say this was inappropriate, she was overstepping. i think it should be no surprise to us to see that donald trump responded in kind. he does not take this kind of criticism well. he also feels like this is completely inappropriate by a supreme court justice. so i think we could expect to see more of this kind of criticism as david gregory was saying. it is highly unusual to see a supreme court justice weigh in like this, particularly as we're in the throes of this heated campaign season. >> juana, do you think this is another opportunity for him to point and say, look, they've got it out for me, look at this, this is so uncalled for, this is so out of the norm, and look at these judgments being made publicly and not just the cnn interview, by the way. "the new york times," the associated press. does this actually help trump galvanize supporters? >> that's absolutely right. this isn't just one comment by

justice ginsburg. this is a string of obviously very intentional comments to a number of publications. i think in that sense, this does help trump. a lot of people who are tuned into this election are clear that the next sitting president could well have a chance not to nominate just one but several supreme court justices. this gives donald trump something to attack. he's got a prominent justice, arguably one of the more prominent jurors on that bench who he's now able to say, look, she's stepping out of the role she's supposed to have. if i'm elected president, i can perhaps replace her and several others. i do think in some ways with he could use this as a positive. >> go ahead, david. >> let's also remember in an election year when bernie sanders is the cool guy who can reach the young people, ruth bader ginsburg is the notorious

rbg. she has a large following. from a political matter, her speaking out may be seen as some as an act of courage. i don't think that changes the fact that most see it as uncalled for and inappropriate. it also reveals something about donald trump and how he sees himself. he sees himself as under attack all the time, and he won't let any attack go unanswered. i was struck by him saying that in a vp, he's looking for someone who can answer those attacks so he can be more presidential, as if he would ever stop answering those attacks. >> i say it as a joke, but it does happen to be true. when i first did an investigation into donald trump, one of his legal letters back to us threatened to sue not just my employer by new parents. this is a guy who does not suffer criticism well. >> as you noted, he didn't start this fight. >> no, he didn't. but that's what power and leadership is about. how do you deal with the negative that's coming your way. david's right. to a lot of his critics, ruth

bader ginsburg galvanized exactly what the criticism is. all right. so who thinks the vp for trump is going to be newt, pence, or other? chris christie then becomes the face of everybody else, right. could be him. could be anybody else. david, start with you. >> well, i mean, in the end, i think he's going to want a strong washington hand, somebody who knows the game and can perhaps give him the kind of advice, the ways of washington advice. i think he'll want to couple that with somebody who can have a sharp tongue. i think that gives newt gingrich the edge there. i think pence is more of a move to mollify conservatives. i just don't know how much donald trump really cares about that. so i don't know. i think he wants something a little brasher but more government experience. >> but sara, doesn't he have a problem with newt on a number of fronts? first of all, one of the biggest supporters of nafta. then you have a lit of criticism

that gingrich was very public about the comments with the judge a month or so ago. and other remarks he's made about muslims. is newt really what people are pointing to here? >> well, i think one of the difficulties with newt -- and when you ask donald trump about newt, he said newt is newt. one of the difficulties is his willingness to come out and critique donald trump publicly. i do think that it was telling to hear trump say he wants an attack dog, and we saw mike pence last night going out on offense in a way we haven't seen before. that's because this position has worked for donald trump. i mean, we've been talking for weeks about how his campaign has been struggling and jumping from controversy to controversy again since he's locked up essentially the republican nomination. but the latest round of swing state polls this morning show that he's effectively tied in florida and ohio and pennsylvania. so it seems like right now donald trump feels like the strategy he has going is working pretty well for him. >> want a quick answer. who's it going to be? >> i think i agree with david that he's looking for someone

who can both channel washington and bring that forceful attack. sara put it well. we saw that from mike pence last night. biggest striking thing for me, you had 17 republicans competing for the nomination. many of the bright stars of this party not on that list. the other list is pretty short. donald trump's pick is likely to be out of the box. it's probably anyone's guess. >> anyone's guess, and it could come any moment. thank you so much, all three of you. coming up next, finger pointing following the deadly police shooting of philand philando castile in minnesota. now conflicting reports about whether the officers administered first aid to him after he was shot. a live report from minnesota next. brace yourself... the first ever gsf is here. with a 467 horse power v8 engine... torque vectoring differential...

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well, this morning the family of philando castile is still demanding answers a week after his death. an investigation is unveiling really a string of contradictions. he said, she said, including whether or not castile received medical aid after he was shot. our rosa flores is live in minnesota with more. look, this is critically important when you look at when emergency services are usually called and when you look at what the governor said the next day

versus what we're now hearing from police. what are police telling you, and how does that counter what the governor said? >> reporter: well, poppy, all of those details are very, very important. that traffic stop happened on this street, that fatal shooting near this memorial. like you mentioned, all new this morning, we're learning from a neighboring police department what they say they did to try to save philando castile's life. you've seen the dramatic cell phone video of philando castile in a white t-shirt covered in blood after being shot by a police officer. >> i told him not to reach for it! i told him to get his hand off it! >> reporter: now we're hearing from police what they say happened after the camera hit the ground. >> we are people. >> reporter: roseville police chief says it's his officers who arrived first on scene. >> at that time, our officers didn't know who had shot whom. it was a chaotic affair.

>> reporter: but within three minutes, he says, they administered cpr on the street right outside castile's car. >> one officer from roseville of the four that did cpr showed me his blood-soaked pants. another showed me his blood-soaked boots of mr. castile's blood. so roseville officers tried to save his life. >> reporter: a clear contradiction of what minnesota governor dayton said thursday about what happened. >> she recounted it this morning that philando was not given first aid, nobody tended to his condition as they were attending to the condition of the police officer who did the shooting. >> it hurt me as the chief of roseville police department to hear the governor of minnesota saying that mr. castile did not receive cpr. it hurt. >> reporter: but that's not the only contradiction the chief points out. >> i didn't arrive home until about 5:00 this morning. >> she wasn't held all night.

she was held for about two hours. >> reporter: reynolds was held in this room, the chief says, called a soft interview room because it has toys, book, and blankets for children to play. >> they manipulated me to go to the station, where they agreed to feed us and give us water, and they didn't. they separated myself and my daughter. >> reporter: a state investigator ended up helping her that night. >> she had talked about how her groceries were in the car and her child hadn't eaten all day. so chris olson took $40 out of his own billfold and gave it to her. >> reporter: and before dropping her off at home just before 1:00 a.m., the chief says a police officer gave the little girl a teddy bear. now, since that governor's press conference, he has come out publicly several times in support of law enforcement. right after the dallas shooting, he thanked police for their service and for saving the lives of so many around the country. >> rosa, this isn't going to be just he said, she said.

this is going to matter. this is a fundamental element of any litigation that is to come in this case. we'll stay on it. rosa flores, thank you. let's take a quick break. the race for the white house growing tighter. polls out this morning, key battleground states. remember, this election is going to come down to not just a few states but a number of counties. that's how tight it is. we have the numbers next. ♪ when you can take your hands off the wheel to get out of a tight spot. when you can relax with your foot off the brake and stay put. and when you enjoy 400 horsepower that's both smooth and controlled. that's the more human side of engineering. this is the lincoln summer invitation, hurry in now to your dealer for limited time offers! lease an mkx for $349 a month or get 0% apr for 60 months and just announced $1,000 summer invitation bonus.

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so much has happened in the country and in the race. how is it reflected in the polls? now we know. this morning we have new numbers. trump and clinton locked in a dead heat in key battlegrounds states. clinton has taken a big hit in florida, losing the eight-point lead she held just a few weeks ago. what does it mean? once again, david gregory and juana summers. david, answer my question. do you see this as just a moment in time? do we see something that we can discern as a trend? >> well, i think there's two things. one, i think you had such a dismal month that donald trump

was in the middle of with these self-inflicted wounds where he was driving up his negatives among every voting group. so it really couldn't have been worse for him. i think he's been able to right the ship a little bit. at the same time, you had hillary clinton have this e-mail conclusion come her way. obviously not facing charges but facing withering criticism from the head of the fbi. i think all of that has mounted for her and really cast a pall over some of her polls. so i think it is more of a reflection of where we are in this particular moment. she's got some consolidation among -- inside the democratic party, but there's a cementing of that view against her among a lot of voters. i think that's what starts to play out here. >> juana, let's look at ohio and pennsylvania. if history is an indicator, you can't take the white house without taking ohio. if you look at pennsylvania, it is so much more in play this time around. you know, you've got the comparison between sort of philadelphia and the suburbs versus the rest of pennsylvania

and the rust belt of pennsylvania. what do you make of the pretty much tie we're see iing in thes states? >> all of these results are all within the margin of error. so these are all very, very close races. what this tells me is how much these states are up for grabs and how much that's going to have to do with just how much effort the candidates, along with the respective party committee, how much work they can put on the ground to convince those persuadable voters. the other big thing i saw looking across all of the polls just released this morning is this trust issue that's come up again for hillary clinton. she's taking knocks again for a trust deficit with voters. david mentioned the e-mail controversy, the fbi saying that there would be no charges and what have you. i think that's going to be really important if hillary clinton does hope to regain those leads she has. it's certainly something donald trump could be able to capitalize on. >> certainly does seem to be a lot baked in. david, let me ask you something. there's this confidence among the clinton people and supporters that she's going to win, and it seems to all come

down to not message, not how she sizes up against trump even personally, but ground game. a lot has been written about that on trump's side as a negative. how do you see it? >> well, i think it's ground game, and it's ultimately demographics. you know, the math for her is simple, which is to replicate barack obama's demographics and his turnout in 2012. young people, minorities, women. she has a full embrace of barack obama now, the president, and she's embracing president obama as tightly as she possibly can. so she's putting all of these pillars in place here. she does have this deficit among younger voters and this trust issue, which i think is significant. here's the difference. as far as we can tell, trump is not deploying the kind of resources in terms of get out the vote, in terms of targeted media and advertising that we're seeing on the clinton side. we're in the middle of the summer. by the end of the summer, the clinton team hopes that they have had a slew of very targeted negative ads against trump that will define him among these key

voting groups so that by the end of the summer, perhaps she can build up enough of a lead that is sustainable. and we're still early in that. they're looking at those numbers. they see there's a lot of work to do. because of her high negatives and the bad press she's getting and this lack of trust, it can depress her turnout. that's what trump is after. when trump was criticizing bernie sanders and saying that bernie supporters won't support her, it's not that he thinks they'll go to him. it's that he wants to keep those people home. >> to david's point, juana, is it conceivable in your mind that even if the clinton camp does everything right on the fundraising front, on the ground game front, follows it textbook perfectly, that she doesn't have the enthusiasm that donald trump has and that once again we will see a surprise to his side what we've seen in this election so far because his supporters are so energized about him just like sanders supporters were. >> i think that that's certainly possible. if you look at not just this poll but the body of polling that's been out over the course

of this election cycle so far, you have two candidates in hillary clinton and donald trump who have the lowest unfavorability numbers we've seen historically in the modern presidential era. you have two candidates that concdo not inspire the same levels of enthusiasm. what i'm looking forward to see is whether or not donald trump claims repeatedly, i've brought new voters into the fold, whether or not he can do that in the general is his big test. >> it's trending that way, though, right, because he's knotted up in the polls. we'll see how this ground game plays out and who wants to come out and vote the most. lady, gentleman, thank you very much. so donald trump, we've been talking about him this morning in very different context. the polls are tight, and now he's in a tight fight with a supreme court justice. ruth bader ginsburg. he's calling for her to resign for saying mean things about him. we're going to talk to the cnn analyst whose interview with

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you criticize donald trump, you're going to hear from him, and he's going to come back stronger. he's doing that even with the supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. she called him a faker for a cnn interview, kind of doubling and tripling down on what she has said in previous interviews. here's trump's quote this morning. justice ginsburg of the u.s. supreme court has embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot, resign. let's discuss with the writer whose interview with ginsburg ignited this controversy. cnn legal analyst. and joining us, cnn senior legal analyst and author of "the oath." joan, you know what you're doing when it comes to covering the supreme court. you know ruth bader ginsburg. you sat down with her after she had put this out there, gave her a chance to walk it back, and what happened? >> well, just to be clear, i was in there on monday evening

talking about a lot of different topics. the chief, what had happened in this recently completed term, and then i referred to the fact that she had made these comments that had been in other news outlets, including the front page of "the new york times" that morning. i said, you know, what do you think of the criticism you're getting? she repeated the -- she said she wasn't surprised and repeated that line about moving to new zealand. then i said, well, elaborate, tell me why you think that of donald trump. that's when she went on again. i wasn't surprised, in part -- look, if i hadn't seen what she'd already said, i might have been a little bit taken aback, but i knew she'd already been out there. this is a woman who doesn't have that kind of political instinct. okay, what should i be saying here? she's saying what she wants to say. she's measured. she's thoughtful. it seems totally out of context for us all now because it's about this candidate and we're in such an unusual political

cycle here, but she obviously felt that way. given a chance to walk it back, decided not to. >> let's show our viewers exactly what she said to you. she said he's a faker, he has no consistency about him, he says whatever comes to his head in the moment. he really has an ego. jeff, to you, you know the bench well. frankly, she's saying what's on her mind, just like donald trump says what's on his mind. i guess in that respect, they have something in common. is there any chance that she would resign? >> no, i don't think there's any chance she will resign, but i think it's appropriate to criticize her about this. this is not how supreme court justices have talked traditionally. they do not get involved in day-to-day political controversies. they do not endorse or unendorse candidates. i think there are lots of good reasons for that, not least of which something involving the election may come before the supreme court in a bush v. gore type case.

i think she'd have to recuse herself at this point. i just think as someone who's a great admirer of justice ginsburg, she's completely wrong in this situation, and she should not be making these sorts of political statements. >> but there is no official code of conduct. >> there is none. it's interesting. a lot of legal minds are debating this now and saying that this is proof of why you should have one. but it wouldn't be enforceable anyway. joan, is there anything we can draw as an analog to this, maybe when alito mouthed something during the president's speech, some of the things that scalia, you know, said on the bench but certainly off the bench that played to political issues before the court. is there anything that's been like this? >> not in our recent times. certainly justice antonin scalia, who i knew well from writing his biography, people always say, do you believe what he's saying now? shouldn't he be impeached? but a lot of his comments were directed to groups, not toward individuals, and not certainly

in a political campaign like this. so i would say you'd have to go back decades and decades to find these kinds of statements. but again, look, there's no -- jeff is right. if we had another bush v. gore, a trump versus clinton, it would be a direct issue that could possibly raise the recusal question. but right now there is no trump case before the court. she probably was thinking of it -- she probably wasn't thinking of it in the legal context at all, which may have been something that folks would fault her for. i can't imagine she was thinking that suddenly she would have some sort of case before her that would give rise to questions about any kind of bias or impartiality in a lawsuit. >> and if i can just add, imagine if each supreme court justice announced his or her preference in the election. samuel alito trashes hillary clinton. is that really what we want of

our supreme court? >> so why do you she's done it? she's done it three times now in the last week. >> well, you know, she's 83 years old. in my experience, people become more like themselves as they get older. she has certainly got all her marbles. she's definitely a very on-the-ball supreme court justice, but i think her political leanings are becoming closer to the surface, and she decided to express them, unfortunately. >> is that why, joan? >> well, i think she's a very honest individual. i can't get into her mind set. i just can tell you that she wasn't going to back away from it given the chance. >> clearly. great interview. go to cnn.com, read the entire thing. jeffrey toobin, thank you. joan, thank you. three of dallas' finest being laid to rest today. what an important day in that city. will president obama's call for unity really be heard and acted on? that's the key. we'll talk about it next.

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hillary clinton was getting out of this problem with e-mails. houdini couldn't have done that. >> she must become our next president. >> you can either say governor or vice president. >> we'll see what happens. it's a little bit like "the apprentice." >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning and welcome back to your "new day." alisyn is off. poppy harlow and i are here for you. we are dealing with the hardest of moments in dallas. the final farewell for fallen officers there. three of the city's finest laid to rest this morning. president obama appealing for unity as the national divide between black and blue appears to be widening. >> all of this as we are learning authorities in louisiana have foiled a credible plot to kill police officers. they took three people into custody. the arrests come amid growing tension over deadly police shootings of two black men over the last week. we begin our coverage this morning with our sara sidner. she's live for us in dallas. good morning, sara.

>> reporter: good morning, poppy and chris. you know, this city is in mourning. we heard yesterday from two presidents, president george w. bush, and president barack obama. both of them had a very clear message to the country. the country, they said, must unite. today there will be unity. it will be filled with sorrow and support for the families of the three officers who will be laid to rest today. brent thompson, who was with d.a.r.t., the first dallas area rapid transit officer to be killed in the line of duty will be laid to rest today. michael smith with dallas police department, and lorne ahrens. all of them laid to rest today as the city mourns. >> i know how far we've come against impossible odds. race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime.

>> reporter: the president trying once again to console the nation. >> my faith tells me they did not die in vain. i believe our sorrow can make us a better country. i believe our righteous anger can be transformed into more justice and more peace. >> reporter: for the 11th time in his presidency, he addressed a city reeling from another mass shooting. the president visibly frustrated by this reality. >> i have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. i've hugged too many families who have lost a loved one to senseless violence. >> reporter: president obama acknowledging both the plight of police officers and the grievances of the community they serve. >> insisting we do better to root out racial bias is not an attack on cops, but an effort to live up to our highest ideals. we cannot match the sacrifices made by officers zamarripa and ahrens, krol, smith, and

thompson, but surely we can try to match their sense of service. >> reporter: those five officers represented by these empty seats, draped in uniform, hats, and folded american flags. >> these slain officers were the best among us. >> reporter: calling dallas home, former president george w. bush offering his condolences and reminding the country of the force that unites us all. >> we recognize that we are brothers and sisters sharing the same brief moment on earth and owing each other the loyalty of our shared humanity. >> reporter: the city's top cop, david brown, receiving a standing ovation for his leadership in this crisis. the chief honoring his fallen comrades. >> there's no greater love than this. these five men gave their lives

for all of us. >> reporter: reciting lyrics from stevie wonder's "i'll be loving you always." >> until the ocean covers every mountain, and i've got to say, always, i'll be loving you always. >> reporter: while there are protests that have been going on around the country, anti-police brutality protest, here there hasn't been any single major protest since thursday, the fateful day that took the lives of five officers. poppy, chris? >> sara, thank you so much. live for us in dallas this morning. and with tension already high after the police shooting death of alton sterling last week in baton rouge, police will today announcing they have foiled a plot aimed at killing police officers. our polo sandoval is live in baton rouge this morning. what did they find? >> reporter: poppy, we know this

case has very quickly evolved from a local pawnshop break-in to what authorities consider a credible threat to police officers here in baton rouge. i want to take you back to this past weekend when authorities say a group of individuals broke into that local pawnshop and made off, or believed to have made with at least eight handguns. throughout the course of the investigation, they were able to recover most of the weapons and also able to arrest at least three individuals, one of which, 17-year-old antonio thomas, told investigators they planned to, quote, look for bullets to kill police. investigators are still following up on that threat to see if they, in fact, did intend to do so. when th this is increasing this sense of awareness among law enforcement since dallas. it's also explaining why we have seen such a significant police presence during the initial protests that have followed alton sterling's shooting. i want you to hear directly from the sheriff why they've increased that police presence. >> what you saw in the response is because of the very real and

viable threats against law enforcement. all i can say beyond that is look what happened in dallas. a very peaceful protest, and then some crazy madman did what he did. so i think the threat speaks for itself. >> reporter: the sheriff there saying that dallas is the obvious reminder of why they have to remain vigilant right now. finally, chris, we do understand they're following up on another threat, an unrelated one, in which an officer reported being followed by an individual. again, investoigators haven't released a whole lot, but it gives you a sense of why people are on edge. >> scary any way you look at it. polo sandoval, we'll check back with you in a little bit. let's talk about the threats facing police with commissioner charles ramsey. he has been the head of the police departments in both philadelphia and d.c. he's the past chairman of president obama's task force on 21st century policing.

chief, what do you think? do you think that officers are you should under a unique and severe threat because of what's been going on? >> well, i think there's a threat that's out there. how serious it is, i don't think anybody really knows, but certainly it's perceived as being very serious. in light of dallas, obviously we have to take these threats very seriously. you do have a lot of unstable people out there that will take advantage of a point in time when we do have this conflict unfortunately in some cities between police and community. and some harm could come to police officers and some harm could also come to them. so it's just not a good time and a good situation. >> how worried should we be about the conventions? you've said i don't think they're going to go without some incident taking place. i don't want to give more weight to your words that you intend. how do you see it? >> well, i think we need to be concerned. that's not to say that anything is going to happen. obviously we're going to have protests. that's good.

that's fine. protests are healthy for this country. my concern is always whether or not someone will take advantage of a situation like they did in dallas to cause harm. hopefully that does not happen. the secret service, the cleveland police department, the philadelphia police department, all those agencies involved are monitoring this very, very closely, and i'm sure they'll take whatever steps they need to take to avoid any kind of violence from taking place. but you have to be concerned about it. but hopefully they go off without a hitch. >> does open carry matter, or is the threat profile the same whether or not it's legal to carry the weapon or not? >> well, open carry does cause confusion. you don't know the intent of an individual. >> obviously ohio has open carry. that's why i'm asking, like texas. >> well, yeah. and i mean, so if someone shows up at a convention or a protest and they have an ak-47 slung over their shoulder, a .45 on their hip, yeah, you're going to

be concerned because you don't know the intention of that individual. it's not just the policemen that feel that. how do the other protesters feel? because they don't know one another for the most part either. so yeah, it's an issue. >> when you look at where things stand today, there are big questions circling in the air about are we unified, are we not. can you support the police and at the same time feel that the shootings of black men need to be investigated and that there's a problem there as well? can you balance these interests? >> well, you have to balance the interests. you have to support police because the majority of police do the job well. but we've got some police officers whose actions are inconsistent with department policy, inconsistent with the law, and we have to investigate those thoroughly and take the appropriate action. i think we've lost the trust, largely, to be able to do that. that's why i think independent investigations are so critically

important if we do have these kinds of cases. but we've got to be able to take a step back, take a deep breath, and bridge the gap. if we continue down this path, which i think is very scary because there are so many extremes on both sides. you can hear some of the protesters says very extreme things. you hear cops saying extreme things. most people are in the middle. that voice needs to be heard, that way we can have thoughtful discussion. >> i hope you're right that most people are in the middle because right now there don't seem to be a lot of open minds. let me ask you something. president puts together this panel after the last rash of shootings that we went through, and you get all these recommendations. very few municipalities have adopted them. you were the head of that board. there are good ideas on there. they're not hugely burdensome ideas for forces to take on. how do you make more people take good ideas? >> well, i mean, that's part of the challenge.

we have 18,000 law enforcement agencies in the united states, at least approximately 18,000. i don't know if anybody knows the exact number, quite frankly. that's far too many. that's a problem in and of itself. i would like to see a goal that in ten years maybe that number is cut in half. we need to look at more regionalization of departments, more standardization in terms of our training, our policies and procedures, and the like so this we can get everyone on the same page in terms of how they handle not just incidents of deadly force but anything that a police officer happens to get involved in. i think there needs to be more consistency. so until we have that, it's not going to be as widespread as we'd like to see, but we've made an enormous amount of progress. right now we have 15 cities, large cities in the united states, that we're providing additional support to in terms of helping them implement the task force recommendations. i've been to numerous meetings talking to chiefs, talking to sheriffs, talking to community folks about the task force

report and helping them implement the recommendations. a lot of progress has been made, but a lot more needs to be made. >> charles ramsey, thank you very much for your perspective. >> thank you. >> all right. tonight, the big questions are in the air, as i just said, and they need to be talked about. we have a special two-hour town hall "black, white & blue: america 2016" on the tensions between police and minority communities. don lemon is going to moderate. 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. poppy? >> also, donald trump tangling with supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. he's calling for her to resign this morning in a tweet overnight. he's calling her a disgrace after she labeled him a faker in a cnn interview. our sara murray is live this morning in indianapolis with more. this is a first. that's for sure. >> reporter: it is certainly unusual, poppy, but donald trump has had a number of unusual political foes since he jumped into this campaign arena. he's fought with most of the

leadership of the republican party. he fought with the pope. now he's on to a supreme court justice. donald trump intensifying his battle with supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. trump now calling on ginsburg to step down, tweeting early this morning that justice ginsburg embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot, resign. in an interview with cnn, justice ginsburg blasted trump as a faker, who really has an ego. house speaker paul ryan addressing the controversy in a cnn town hall last night. >> that shows bias to me. >> reporter: meanwhile, trump playing to the hometown crowd last night. coyly hinting indiana governor mike pence might get the vp nod. >> i don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president. who the hell knows. >> reporter: as trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick

is coming this week, and pence is aiming to prove his prowess on the campaign trail. >> i think it would be extremely careless to elect hillary clinton as the next president of the united states. >> reporter: the vice presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail. a string of shootings claiming police and civilians alike. >> these tragedies tear at our soul. >> reporter: clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias. >> get law enforcement the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. the tragedy of black men and women and black children being killed in police incidents. >> reporter: while trump says he stands unequivocally on the side of police. >> the hostility against our police has to end. >> reporter: trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity

with the shooter who killed five police officers in dallas. >> the other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. marches all over the united states and tough marches, anger, hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him, for the killer. >> reporter: now, trump has been -- in spite of that last trump comment that's already drawing blowback because it appears entirely unsupported by facts, there are still plenty of reasons for the trump campaign to wake up in good spirits this morning. for one, a new round of swing state polls shows trump and clinton are essentially tied in florida, ohio, and pennsylvania, and secondly, trump continues to whip up speculation about the veep stakes. he made an unplanned overnight here in indianapolis yesterday evening. his campaign says he's still expected to head to california later today for fundraisers. we're standing by to see whether that is, in fact, the case. back to you guys.

>> i got to tell you, these tight polls that are out now showing the battleground states up for grabs, that's going to add to trump's momentum as well. so who is out of line in the war of words between donald trump and justice ginsburg? and what will their public feud mean for the campaign? we're going to discuss trump v. ginsburg next. f protein in birds eye protein blends. ok. they're delicious side dishes with the protein of beans, whole grains.. ...and veggies! mmm good. my work here is dooooone! bird's eye protein blends. so veggie good. the earth needed to find a new waytury, to keep up with the data from over 30 billion connected devices. just 30 billion? a bold group of researchers and computer scientists in silicon valley, had a breakthrough they called... the machine. it changed computing forever. and it's been part of every new technology for the last 250 years. everything? everything! this year, hewlett packard enterprise

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welcome back to "new day." donald trump has a new rival in washington. supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. he's calling for her to resign this morning after she called him a, quote, faker, in a cnn interview. let's discuss all of this. i should note, john is jackie's boss. feel free to fight in this. >> let's see if jackie disagrees with him once. >> let's begin. >> i think john can attest. >> yes, no problem with disagreements here among fellow beasts. >> let me start with you, john,

just about the political implications of what ruth bader ginsburg said in this fascinating interview with cnn, saying he's a faker, he has a big ego, he has essentially no filter. paul ryan condemned it last night in the town hall. do you think there's any real political implication though? >> long-term political implication, probably not. look, all those things may be true, and it's also true that it's totally inappropriate for a supreme court justice to say them. there's a reason that justices are supposed to stay out of partisan politics. and it's troubling enough when the wife of, for example, clarence thomas gets involved in partisan politics as a two-party activist. for a sitting justice to weigh in is totally inappropriate. it's beneath the court. it's beneath ruth bader ginsburg. >> jackie, we know that the idea that supreme court justices are apolitical is a farce. we go through it every time there's a confirmation process where we allow these men and women to go up before congress and just really, you know, give

only their best selves. we just know it's not the truth. however, this is -- we've never seen this in our lifetime. people don't do this when they're on the court. it's hard to justify on any level. people may agree with what she said, if they're clinton supporters, but they can't see this as the right thing to do. can you take the other side of that proposition, or is that just the truth? >> i mean, their job is to stay above the fray on things like this. that's why it's so shocking she came forward and said this. joan notes that she's known as a very blunt person who speaks her mind. maybe she went a little too far here, or maybe a lot too far when weighing in on the presidential election. >> but it's an example of how this election is making us all a little crazy. we're not being our best selves.

there's an absence of statesmanship across the board. >> i think that's a really important point. this is perhaps a pre-eminent example of it. >> i think it is a pre-eminent example when you go to basic constitutional principles like separation of powers. we saw a bunch of eminent historians come down off their mountain top to say, you know what, seen with the eyes of history, this election is a departure from the normal. >> there's no rule. there's no right, there's no wrong. but they don't do this for a reason. >> a really good reason. >> what's your take on this? who's more wrong? donald trump is -- has a hair trigger in response to all critics if they hit him with attack, he hits them back with a spike. that's how he is. but who's more wrong here? his reaction, which is pretty much par for the course, or her as a supreme court justice going down to the level of political

commentary. >> first of all, i want want to congratulate you for coming up with the ultimate drinking game for this election. who's more wrong? >> it's become my life, john. >> in this case, i will go with ruth bader ginsburg is more wrong because she's a supreme court justice, and donald trump is trump. you know, he is the caricature of himself who just sort of spews without filter. a supreme court justice is supposed to be the opposite of that. in the game of who's more wrong, i'm going rbg. >> let's talk veep stakes. jackie, to you, when we look at the three men, it's looking like gingrich, christie, or pence. pence is the safe choice. yes, trump stayed in indiana last night. you choose why. but he's the safe choice. that seems so anti-trump. but you still think it's going to be pence. >> until you crawl inside donald trump's head, i don't think you can say for sure who this is actually going to be. i don't think he knows at this

point. >> really? >> he said that on the podium. >> that was just a creepy being john malcovich image, by the way, crawling into donald trump's head. you get someone who's a former radio show host -- >> also -- >> yeah -- >> he was in congress. >> someone who's in congress, someone who connects with the base. christie and gingrich are much tighter with donald trump personally. that kind of loyalty and chemistry probably matters more. >> here's a bold suggestion. you know how we know that this -- if trump wanted any of these guys, you know how you'd know? he would have picked them already. this is not a man who allows a deliberate process to play out and let me hear from everybody. if he had a guy he wanted, he would have picked him already. >> he may have already picked in

private a long time ago. this is a reality tv show rollout, folks. >> you think he's playing us? >> oh, i think donald trump's entire campaign is a reality tv show punking the american people. >> putting that brazen criticism to the side for a second, this process could be playing out. he could have a lot of different minds. they could be testing, they could be polling. >> it is entirely possible that one wing of the campaign is doing that. jackie, what's your wisdom? >> i think there's been a lot of trial balloons akin to someone walking outside and releasing a bunch of balloons. we were talking about michael flynn last weekend. he came out and said he was pro-choice. so he was taken off the table. so really, until you know what donald trump is thinking, we don't know for sure who the veep is. >> jackie, john, thank you both. so why is donald trump waging a war with a supreme court justice? she actually started the fight, as chris rightly pointed out. we'll ask his campaign about the

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donald trump calling for supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg to resign because she criticized him in several interviews. that is one of several big issues going on in the campaign right now. let's discuss with a man who knows. sam clovis, chief policy adviser of the trump campaign. sam, thanks for being here with us this morning. >> always great to see you. >> is that the right move, calling for supreme court justice to resign? >> well, i'm not sure it's exactly the direction you go, but i think you have to put a place holder out there that says that, hey, what you did was so out of character for supreme court justices that perhaps you can't show the impartiality you're supposed to show when sitting on the bench. you said earlier, chris, rightfully so, that everybody has political bias. it's a dog and pony show when we go through confirmation. sometimes we're surprised by the bias that appears on the court,

but i think we should not have been surprised at justice ginsburg. she has always been a fire brand. even from her confirmation days -- and i remember those hearings, going through that process and listening to what she had to say. i thought it was fascinating. >> let me ask you this. the veep stakes, you going to help me out here this morning? i can't believe that donald trump is ever uncertain about what he wants in any situation. so is this a deal where he knows who he wants and you guys push back against him to want somebody else? mixed minds here? >> i think there may be some, you know -- everybody has their favorites in the veep stakes. i think -- and everybody gets the opportunity to make an input. once your input is made, you leave it to the boss to decide. i think that we're all eagerly anticipating his decision. i'm excited. i think whoever it comes out to

be is going to add to the campaign, it's going to add to our ticket. i think this is a fascinating experience. i also think that, you know, think about what we're talking about right now. every outlet, every cable outlet, every news outlet in america is talking about this very issue today. so we're gaining earned media from this. >> i know. >> this is a really -- >> you're playing me, sam. you're playing me. >> well, i'll tell you what, chris, you know, you got to take a lick. we're a spartan outfit and we run a spartan campaign. so w got to get it where we can. >> all right. well, it's working. i hate it, but it's working. i hate that you're stringing me out, but it's working for you. let me ask you something about something that's decidedly more serious. the situation that's going on in dallas, two beats on that. the first one is trump says i'm squarely behind the police. you would hope that everybody is squarely behind the police, but that's not the question. the question is, how do you balance the interest of humanity here between securing the

respect for your police and also securing the rights of the people that they do police. why would he pick a side in this? >> i don't think he's necessarily picking a side. i think what he's looking at is offering up support for the people in blue around this country. i think that this is very much an important part of this. i don't think there's any question -- i know mr. trump. there's no question in his mind that he thinks about these issues that took place in baton rouge and st. paul as absolutely tragic and uncalled for and unnecessary violence and confrontation, but i think that he has been a strong supporter of the law enforcement people in this country for a long time. i want to add one thing, chris. i think it's very important here. this whole issue, i've heard some talk today on your show and other shows this morning that i

think it's very important. this is where we have to start. one, these are local issues. these have to be dealt with at the local community level, and if we spent more time builting community, i think we would have a much better and much more secure operation in that aspect. the other part of it is there has to be some form of standardization across our policing in this country. i'm normally not one ever to go that far, but i think because of my own experiences working in homeland security and working with law enforcement across this country for the past 15 years, this is one of those things that i think is very important and we probably ought to address it. >> well, look, there's no question about it. but the local is often affected by the national. this is certainly something we see that spreads across the country in a way that it's more than just a local issue. i take your point to where change starts. but it's also about the tone he sets as the leader, all right. that's why i ask you about taking a side. i also want to ask you about his claim that he has heard of

people calling for moments of silence for the murderer. where is he getting that, sam? we were trying to find any proof of that anywhere. if there is no proof, what we worry about is it is once again him calling on an image that's a very dangerous image for his own, i guess, perceived sense of momentum in a situation. kind of like the 9/11 celebrations that he believes he saw. now he says he hears people calling for a moment of silence for a murderer. have you heard that, sam? >> well, i have seen it reported that we have seen some very interesting moments in dealing with this tragedy -- >> calling for a moment of silence? >> well, it depends on the context, i guess, chris. frankly, i've had my nose buried in other issues. i'm not dodging your question. >> sam, you're dodging it. you're doing it artfully, but you're dodging it.

context, my eye. either you've seen they were calling for a moment of silence or you haven't. >> i personally have not. i've seen moments where i've seen in some of these demonstrations, i've seen there's a reverence paid to the shooter that is really startling. i think that is -- when you have a person who purposefully and with intent murders five police officers, that's terrible, and i don't think you should celebrate that in any way shape or form. >> no question about it. >> and we have unfortunately seen that type of thing take place. i think that's very much a tragic issue. >> i know. we both know what matters here. in the worst of situations, people often are at their worst, but we demand from our leaders they be at their best. that's what we need right now. sam clovis, thank you for joining me, as always. i hope that i get a quick call from you a little ahead of when the vp announcement comes as

well. wouldn't mind that, sam. >> well, okay, chris. i'm sure i'll see you next week in cleveland. >> absolutely. dinner on me if you give me an advance. >> i believe he said, okay, chris. you'll have that breaking news here on "new day." all right. coming up, contradictions emerging in the investigation into philando castile's death. his family demanding answers. now their lawyer, judge glenn da hatchet, is talking to us next. , but they're daughters heart was set on going to the zoo. so we said if you need safelite to come to the zoo we'll come to the zoo! only safelite can fix your windshield anywhere in the us. with our exclusive mobileglassshops. and our one of a kind trueseal technology, for a reliable bond. service that fits your schedule. that's another safelite advantage. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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this morning a family demanding answers as the probe into the shooting death of philando castile draws major

inconsistencies. the new controversy surrounds when castile was given aid after being shot by police. i want to bring in the attorney for the family, glenda hatchett. i understand you're looking at filing potentially multiple lawsuits. at this point, what is the family looking for? what is justice in the family's eyes? >> well, i'm going to be dealing with the civil side, poppy. and thank you very much for having me this morning. but i am going to be watching very carefully what happens in terms of criminal charges being brought, prosecuting the officer involved, and absolutely looking at what happened. you know, was there a delay? there's a question about whether he was taken to the closest trauma center. there are a lot of unanswered questioned. one of the things that you all have seen and know about me is that i will always be very

transparent. what i am able to know and share, i will be very open. the problem is we are just beginning this investigation. rather than to speculate, i always want to be able to come to you with what i know definitively. there are concerns about the basis of the police stop to begin with. the actions -- >> let's begin with that and let's get on to the aid rendered in the aftermath of it. because the attorney for the officer who shot and killed philando castile, the attorney says this had nothing to do with race. he says it had everything to do with the presence of a gun, indicating, he's saying, that there was cause, he's arguing, for shooting mr. castile. also, the associated press is reporting that that attorney said that the officer believed he, castile, was a possible match for a robbery suspect, indicating there was more of a reason, they're saying, to pull him over than a broken taillight. you say to that?

>> and i will say that the audiotape that was released has not been authenticated by the police department. so i don't know what was on that tape. again, i'm going to be very careful not to respond without actually knowing what's on the table. let's just say for a moment that the tape is authentic in the sense that the description was a broad nose. that's what's been widely reported. that's a description that fits a lot of african-american men. even if he stopped him, even if he stopped him thinking that he was a suspect in a felon, this is a man who was complying. he had a permit to carry a gun. he had a valid driver's license. he had car insurance. this man had never been charged with a felony. and somehow from that, poppy, we

find someone who is dead. when he is in the act of complying and reaching for the documentation that the officer has asked for. so you can't have it always. >> now, the family -- >> deadly force can -- >> i just want to also get to the aid rendered. that's really important here as well. the family said -- >> it is very important. >> the family says aid wasn't rendered. they told the governor mark dayton that aid wasn't rendered and the focus was helping the police officer, not castile. the neighboring police department, the roseville police department, takes issue with that. here's what they say. >> our officers didn't know who had shot whom. it was a chaotic affair. there was a lot of things going on that they had to work through. by 9:00, 10:00 p.m., they started to perform cpr on mr. castile. so four roseville officers using an aed had performed cpr on mr.

castile. >> what can you tell us about that, what they've told you? >> we're still waiting for the official reports, poppy. so until we have those, and we thoroughly review those, but there have been questions. ms. castile has raised the question, why wasn't he taken to a closer trauma center? was aid sufficiently rendered? we will be looking at that very, very closely. >> i know that president obama did call castile's mother yesterday, and you said that they've been holding up exceptionally well given the circumstances. >> exceptionally well. >> please keep us posted. >> she's a very strong person. i will. she's a very strong person and has been remarkable through every phase of this and has a lot of family support. so absolutely, i will keep you posted. >> thank you very much, judge hatchett, representing the castile family there in minneapolis. we appreciate it.

chris? >> let's bounce back to the election, poppy. the trump university fraud case is back in court. the big question, is the judge going to release trump's video deposition? cnn sits down with one of the trump university's instructors. >> we can't find your broker's license anywhere. >> okay. >> and i have no idea what homes you built in atlanta, georgia. you build homes in georgia? >> i'm not prepared to answer those questions today. >> that's just the beginning. hear what else he had to say next on "new day." hcare, seconds can mean the difference between life and death. for partners in health, time is life. we have 18,000 people around the world. the microsoft cloud helps our entire staff stay connected and work together in real time to help those that need it. the ability to collaborate changes how we work. what we do together changes how we live.

a california judge is going to decide today whether to release donald trump's video deposition in the trump university fraud case. trump was recorded answering questions about trump university as parts of a lawsuit. now, it's just one of the suits that allege despite promises, trump university was not a university, the school did not teach donald trump's real estate secrets, and teachers and mentors were neither real estate experts nor hand-picked by donald trump. this morning, you're going to hear from one of those so-called experts, decide for yourself. senior investigative correspondent drew griffin invited the man who helped bring in the money for trump university to chat, and he did. drew, thank you. >> thanks, chris. james harris claims to be a real estate expert and for trump university, he claims he was one of the best salesman there.

the real estate seminar business for trump raked in an estimated $40 million from people who thought they would be taught donald trump's real estate secrets. james harris is one of the people who sold them on that dream. >> we will bringing in the money. >> a lot of it. >> a lot of money. >> were you the top guy? >> i know i'm good at what i do. >> maybe i was the top guy. i don't really know if i was or not. i know that my numbers were one -- from week to week to week, my numbers were in the top one or two. >> james harris' job was to get people to believe they too could be as successful at real estate as donald trump. and to reel them in, sign them up, get them to pay as much as $34,000, and the promise that the next seminar, the next class would teach them all they would need to know. >> what do you know about real estate? >> real estate is a very wide,

huge business. i got involved in real estate personally myself in the '90s. >> and if you attended a james harris trump university seminar, you would hear a lot more about harris's claims of success and experience in real estate. claims made in this verbatim transcript of a trump seminar he made in san bernardino, california. >> do you remember when he said this, i'm a formerlines broker and became the top 1% broker in the country? i build homes in atlanta, georgia, and i used to live in beverly hills. >> yes. if i said those things, then they are true. i did live in beverly hills -- >> we have no record of you ever living in beverly hills. >> okay. >> we can't find your broker's license anywhere. >> okay. >> and i have no idea what homes you built in atlanta, georgia. you build homes in georgia? >> i'm not prepared to answer those questions today. >> this is part of your -- >> is any of that true?

>> again, i'm not going to answer those questions, because i haven't seen them. >> well you certainly know what you've done in your life. >> i don't know where that's coming from. >> this is a transcript, submitted in court -- >> i have never seen it -- >> of the taped -- >> i don't know that -- i don't know if that's a court document or not. >> it's a court document. >> okay. >> well what do you know about real estate? >> again, i'm not prepared to answer those questions today is, this is about trump university. >> he kept walking up and down the aisle, flashing his rolex in the faces. >> bob was one of james harris' students, he is part of a lawsuit trying to get back his $34,000. he says the school was a fraud, so was his teacher. >> he bragged that he had dinner with donald trump. >> did you ever dinner with him? >> i never had dinner with him. >> hmm. bob was in one of your conferences and you said you just had dinner with donald trump. one of your speaking

engagements. >> i don't have any recollection of that. >> james harris admits his main job wasn't to teach real estate, it was to sell real estate seminars. always with the goal of hooking his audience into buying more classes. >> i was told to promote and sell the trump university packages, and the programs that they were offering. and that's what i did. they had to pay a fee to come to further their training at the next event. so it was -- it went from event to event to event. >> is that step by step as it's been described upsell by upsell, by upsell? >> kind of sort of, yep, if you pay this amount, we're going to teach you this much. we're going to go further with you. >> here's an e-mail you wrote. i just spoke to boston and older retired couple who had to pull the $30,000 with gold and she said, it's done, and should be in monday. so that will be another 35k. we will easily have another 100k in by friday, yahoo.

your associate in my response, we've always been a dangerous team, brother man. these peeps don't have a chance against us. smiley face. that's called sales. is that called ripping off an old couple? >> absolutely not. $30,000. >> i never saw that e-mail, but that is sells. that's a typical sales e-mail between two sales people working oen a deal. i don't know if those people had the money or not, they could have, they could have been putting up their last dollar, i don't know. all i know -- >> do you care? >> of course we care. but i was doing my job. we did our job. >> regardless revenue if they could afford it or not? >> regardless if they could afford it or not, i didn't know if i could afford it or not. that was not my position, not my job. other people did that. i don't know if they could afford it or not. we were told to show them all the ways that they could afford it, they could come up with the finances to get into the

business. period. end of story. >> chris, did donald trump even know james harris? the answer seems to be no. trump couldn't recall a single name of his live events instructors when he was asked under oath, even the sell described salesman who claims he was trump's number one. as for james harris, he moved on to a new venture, hosting easy money work from home money on the internet, yes, he is touting his success at trump university for one of the reasons to trust him. chris. >> you had all of us silent watching that entire thing, drew, and i kept asking myself, why did james harris talk? why did he talk to you? >> you know, he is all over the internet, he calls himself uncle jim and he likes to sell this idea that you could make so much money from home. i think the guy just had a huz ego. he didn't understand what was happening in that cnn interview. and many of us thought he would just get up and walk out. he stayed there and answered the

questions, sort of. >> he does think of the people, the $35,000, that couple, and how many more? >> you asked all the right questions, all the right questions, and often some of the best answer to the answers they can't answer or won't answer. drew griffin, there's more reporting to be done there, we'll stay with you. there's a lot of news this morning, let's get right to it. i have spoken at too many memorials, i've hugged too many families. >> these five men gave their lives. >> we asked the police to do too much and we ask too little of ourselves. >> we are grief-stricken, hea heartbrok heartbroken, and forever grateful. >> these tragedies tear at our soul. >> i am the law and order candidate. >> it is either donald trump or hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton will make an outstanding president. >> bernie sanders people, they're going to be voting for

trump. >> we are joining forces. >> i'm just as anxious as the rest of you are. >> i don't know if he'll billion vice president, who the hell knows. >> this is "new day" with chris and alison. >> good morning, thank you to new day, this wednesday, july 13th, 8:00 in the east, alison is off, poppy harlow and i are here for you. we are talking about dallas this morning, it is in a state of mourning. three of the city's finest are going to be buried, thousands are expected to honor these fallen heroes. president obama consoling mourners and challenge the shaken nation to define the character to unite. >> this as chilling new details emerge about a plot to kill police officers in louisiana. three people now in custody as tension grows over the deadly police shootings of two black men in just the last week. we begin our coverage with sarah sidner live in dallas, the morning of these three funerals for the fallen officers, good

morning, sarah. >> reporter: good morning, poppy. let's start with the names of those officers laid to rest today. it is brent thompson, he was the b.a.r.t. officer who was shot and killed right outside at el central college. he is the first officer to lose his life in the line of duty from b.a.r.t. then you have dallas police officer michael smith and dallas police officer lorne ahrens. they will be laid to rest. this memorial brought together two presidents, vice presidents, senator, and the message was overwhelming, we have to come together. >> we are not as divided as we say. >> reporter: president obama urging the country to unite at a memorial service for the five police officers killed in dallas. >> i know how far we've come against impossible odds. race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime. >> reporter: the president trying once again to console the nation. >> my faith tells me that they

did not die in vain. i believe our sorrow can make us a better country. i believe our righteous anger can be transformed in the more justice and more peace. >> reporter: for the 11th time in his presidency, he addressed a city reeling from another mass shooting, the president visibly frustrated by this reality. >> i have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. i've hugged too many families. who've lost a loved one. to senseless violence. >> reporter: president obama acknowledging both the plight of police officers and are the. grievances of the community they serve. >> insisting we do better to root out racial biases is not an attack on cops, but an effort to live up to our highest ideas. we cannot match the sacrifices made by officers zamarippa, krol, smith, and thompson.

but surely we can try to match their sense of service. >> reporter: those five officers represented by these empty seats. draped in uniform, hats, and folded american flags. >> these slain officers were the best among us. >> reporter: calling dallas home, former president george w. bush offering his condolences and reminding the country of the force that unites us all. >> we recognize that we are brothers and sisters sharing the same brief moment on earth, and owing each other the loyalty of our shared humanity. [ applause ] >> reporter: the city's top cop, david brown, receiving a standing ovation for his leadership in this crisis. the chief honoring his fallen comrades. >> there's no greater love than this. that these five men gave their lives for all of us. >> reporter: reciting lyrics

from stevie wonder's "i'll be loving you always." >> until the ocean covers every mountain valley, and i've got to say, always. i'll be loving you always. >> reporter: and if you have any doubt of about how people feel about the dallas police here, this memorial, you could basically see the cars there underneath, there are two dallas police cars, they are completely covered with flowers and balloons. and every day the crowds get larger and larger here. poppy. >> they do. sarah, thank you so much. well at the same time as we will mourn these police officers, tensions are running high after the police shooting death of sterling in louisiana and police foiled the plot was aimed at killing more police. we are live in baton rouge with the details, what did they find?

>> reporter: yeah poppy, as if law enforcement didn't have enough to worry about, now there is this. what investigators are considering a credible threat to law enforcement here in baton rouge. go back to the weekend to understand what they are following up. there was a punch out, about eight stolen guns throughout the course of the investigation, officers were able to arrest at least three individuals and actually recover most of those weapons, but what's disturbing here is one of the suspects, a 17-year-old antonio thomas told investigators quote, we planned to look for bullets to kill police. investigators are also trying to find that there's a fourth individual involved in it. what is being considered as this plot. also another threat to tell you about, something that we're working to find out more about, and a police officer here in baton rouge reported being followed, at least one occasion. that's also concerning to officials here on the ground, but what this is doing, chris, it's ultimately increasing the police presence and explains why we have seen such a significant

police presence as some of the protests have happened. alton sterling was shot and killed at this very parking lot last week, obviously people here on the ground, especially authorities, well aware of what happened in dallas seven days ago. >> and the threat is very well, polo, it doesn't have to be the brightest light that decides to act on it. deranged or just a dumb kid. and that's why officers are on-edge. let's bring in the deputy chief rft chair of the national black police association. malik, and representative from texas, democratic congressman mark. gentlem gentlemen, thank you for joining me, especially on this all-important day. i want to play a little bit of what the chief said yesterday, because it really resinated all over the country. >> until the trees and seas, up, up, and i'll be loving you, until the day that eight times, eight times, eight times, eight is full, i'll be loving you until the day that is the day that are no more, i'll be loving

you until the day, the earth starts turning right to left. i'll be loving you. >> malik, i keep hearing from people that that was a demonstration of why the chief is beloved so much and it is such an example of how he loves and how he feels about his officers, quoting the lyrics from stevie wonder, we also heard him a couple of days ago referring to the early commercials and beginning of the show for superman, what are we seeing about how this man acts? >> well, i would say, you know, i've said this before, the leadership of the mayor mike raulings and the chief david brown during this time of crisis here, he's risen to the occasion to provide support for the 3,500 officers and being an example of what a police chief is supposed to be around the world. he's done that during this crisis. and he's shown what he could be and what he could do. i think over the last three or four days, you've seen him hold

press conferences, you've seen him in a briefing, you've seen him. this is a man who knows tragedy. where his own -- his words resinate because he experienced tragedy when his own son killed a friend of mine, craig shaw, a fellow bpa member. so when he was telling the family, i love you always, i could imagine that's what he was going through during his tragedy when his own son would kill a police officer. so i think that right there is given him in a resolve, and inner strength to try to find something to say to the families and the world would lose, who could lose such great men, five great men, fell in this city and four fell under his watch which no police chief wants. i'll say this, you can't ever go wrong with stevie wonder, he's a little unconventional, when you say stevie wonder and you realize that he can give, he can quote the lyrics of stevie wonder and give an arousing speech, i never thought stevie

wonder lyrics could do such a thing, when he said love always. that's what he was trying to tell a family what it comes down to. he just couldn't say i love you, he had to say it with stevie wonder lyrics to tell a family i love you, and i love you always because i've experienced the same thing here, in a very different way of tragedy, but nonetheless, a very different -- i mean, a tragedy nonetheless. >> doesn't matter how you say it -- >> let me ask this -- >> go ahead. >> let me ask this, chris. you know, yesterday, it was one of those days with a beautiful ceremony and you know, seeing former president george bush talk about, you know, people using the worst example of people, but the best example and best intentions among themselves to the mayor of, you know, bringing the city in unity to chief spiller who didn't say a word, but his presence was felt, d.a.r.t. police chief spiller, his presence was felt. it was a felt at the vigil the night before.

and then the president, you know, and balanced way, in a very balanced way, he tried to bring families who were in mourning and the world who was watching, who had taken sides and not to politicize anything, but to extend the hand and saying with unify, because at the very end, they held hands on stage. and it was beautiful to see the demographics holding the hand of world leaders for the greatest country on earth, holding hands and showing that what we could be and how we could be and what was supposed to be, and we could have our differences, but one thing about it, we should end with i still love you, brother, that's how it should work. >> always, always. congressman, tough task for president obama, and one that he has had to undertake too many times before. this is the 11th city he's visited this way. he took the trip to dallas with the president, what can you tell us about his state of mind on the trip over? >> well, i can tell you that me personally, i thought that it was one of the best speeches he ever gave. i really like the fact that he

talked about how we're going to come together, but we have to acknowledge some of the paths, problems that we've had in this country in order to be able to do that. and, you know, we talked to the president a little bit on the plane, and you could tell that he, you know, was bothered and moved by what happened in dallas, but i just thought that it was really, as a lifelong north texas resident, i was moved, and it was just one of the best jobs that the president has ever done in my opinion. >> congressman, how did you feel about the president including not just the incident in dallas, but also what had happened in louisiana and minnesota as part of his comments? >> i thought it was part of the healing process for our country. i thought that was very timely and very appropriate, and i think that the country needed to hear that. >> malik, what do you think about that? members of the law enforcement community are saying, what happened in dallas has nothing to do with what happened in louisiana, with what happened in minnesota. why combine the occasions?

>> well, in a way it doesn't have anything to do, five of my brothers failed the other night, just a few blocks away from here and it's very painful for us and we have a painful three or four days ahead. so yes, at the same time, it didn't have anything to do, we didn't bring that to our city. a madman killing them, but the world is looking, the nation is experienced in these type of things. and so, this is the reason, this is the reason why we're so polarized. this is the reason for black lives matter. the reason for killing an unarmed black man, and we have to have the compassion to understand that side. i don't have to agree with you, but i do have to understand and i can say even the castile family or the sterling family, do you think they love their children less? my mother lost a son and my brother, he wasn't much of anything during those years, but i can tell you, she cried for days. and did she cry over a guy that wasn't contributing to society

as much as he should? a mother and father a's pain is experienced, and we should understand that pain because we know pain all too well. we're going to have to grieve with what got us here, we have to agree on we can go forward with love, we can go forward with dallas with police officers who lead with community members who we need. i wasn't bothered by it. i know people who were, but i wasn't bothered by it. i'm not bothered by showing love and compassion to my fellow man, and at the same time, holding them accountable for the actions. i have no issue with playing it out. we'll play it out in the coming days. we have a lot of work to do. so we should say it. and this is the hard conversation and in hard conversations with, we often disagree. we should never disagree violently, but we're going to disagree, and we should understand that, but we still need to sit at the table. and i think our leader, our president, when you have gone to the top, that's my president, it's my president. so he came, he took his time out

to come here from running the best nation in the world to extend his sympathies to a family and embrace them and then he also said, let's come together. he talked about doing an injustice to the past. dishonoring the memories of martin luther king or malcolm x or hearriet tubman. we should understand that. if we're not going to sit down as honorable or respectable men and women, that's not an honorable way for us to do things. i implor the president to call for a national conversation on race and police brutality. i request that the congress call on it, be men and women and stand up and let's have a tough conversation in washington and every city across this nation. >> malik, thank you very much, congressman, thank you for your perspective as well.

malik is saying what many are saying is we have to have this conversation, even though it's hard, that's why we have it, we're having it tonight. for a special two-hour town hall, black, white, and blue, america 2016, about the tensions between police and minorities which are all too real in this country today. don lemon will moderate, it starts at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. all right. supreme show down between ruth bader ginsburg and donald trump. she labeled the supreme court justice a disgrace. this is after she called him a quote, faker and a lot more in a cnn interview. we are live in indianapolis with more, wow, this is a first. >> reporter: wow is right, poppy. it's unusual in the case of a supreme court justice doing this, not just in one interview, but in multiple interviews with different news outlets, as donald trump, he hit back. he has not had any odd political foes this cycle from the leaders

of his own party to the pope and now to a supreme court justice. donald trump intensifying his battle with supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. trump now calling on ginsburg to step down. tweeting early this morning that justice ginsburg embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot, resigned, in an interview with cnn, justice ginsburg blasted trump as a faker who really has an ego. house speaker paul ryan addressing the controversy in a cnn town hall last night. >> i think it's out of place for, in a pointed branch of government. that shows bias to me. >> reporter: meanwhile trump, playing to the hometown crowd last night. hinting indiana governor mike pence might get the vp nod. >> i don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president, who the hell knows. >> reporter: as trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick it coming this week.

and pence is aiming to prove his promise on the campaign trail. >> i think it would be extremely careless to elect hillary clinton as the next president of the united states. >> reporter: are the vice presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail. a string of shootings, claiming police and civilians alike. >> these tragedies tear at our soul. >> reporter: clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias. >> get law enforcement, the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. the tragedy of black men and women and black children being killed in police incidents. >> reporter: well trump says he stands unequivocally on the side of police. >> the hostility against our police has to end. >> reporter: trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity with the shooter who killed five police officers in dallas. >> the other night, you had 11,

think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage, marches all over the united states, and tough marches. anger. hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him. for the killer. >> reporter: now even though trump is facing backlash today for that last comment, his team haze still some reasons to be in good spirits this morning. a new set of queen pea yak's poll says donald trump is tied with clinton in florida, ohio, pennsylvania, and on top of that, they will have the veep stakes speculation continuing to whirl today, that's after donald trump decided he would spend the night in indianapolis. he's supposed to be headed to california later today, but we will see, chris. >> doing a good job of getting free media out of his vp stakes thing. we'll keep following it because it matters. sarah murray, thank you very much. breaking news out of great

britain, david cameron about to leave ten downing street for the last time as prime minister. in just hours, he's going to head to buckingham palace to handle the queen a formal letter of resignation. in his speech he encouraged the country to stay as close to the eu as possible. now his successor, theresa may is going to meet with the queen today and be invited to form a new government as she officially becomes the uk's second female prime minister. more on donald trump and ruth bader ginsburg going toe to toe, did the supreme court justice cross a line and just how much so? also veep stakes, who will be trump's number two? our all-star political panel, next.

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welcome back to new day. big questions on the campaign trail this morning. donald trump ams taking on a supreme court justice, she actually started the fight, the back and forth. this as the political world watches and waits for veep stakes. who will be trump's vice presidential pick? let's talk about all of this with former communications director for jeb bush's presidential campaign and communications advisor for the anti-trump, political commentator and trump supporter, and democratic strategist, senior advisor for pro-hillary clinton. i'm exhausted getting through

your introductions. >> so are we. >> sorry about that, poppy. >> i'm glad you're with us this morning. jim acosta out with reporting about veep stakes. don't count chris christie out yet, a source very close to the vp selection process says, trump wants a fighter and christie fits the bill. to you, paul, what do you make of that? >> jim's a great reporter, i'm sure that's right. christie would do a lot for trump. he would be doubling down, right? christie like trump is kind of a tough guy, bombastic, northeasterner, and so double down on the trump brand. and there's some merit in that. i wonder somebody far distant from it, chris christie when he was a prosecutor, prosecuted the family of trump's son-in-law. and that kind of could make for some weird politics. i have no idea how that plays out. >> isn't it the more than weird politics? he prosecuted charles kushner, he spent two years in jail after

a plea. this was very, very personal for jared, and jared and ivonka are parts of the trump camp. isn't it weird? >> they seem to be indispensable. i have to say. i don't know this personally. a gift of people and mr. trump needs them. we can't do out with the a son-in-law. that's interesting. christie has an enormous amount of talent, he's a very abled politician. he didn't do well in the campaign, but he's a very talented guy, and i think he might be the attack dog that trump wants. >> if it mattered that much, christie wouldn't be as close to trump as he already is. so i think that they've kind of made that already. jeffrey, i've never known donald trump to make decisions by committee, i have never known donald trump to not know his own mind. is this just all a clever way of stringing out free media attention for a decision he already has made? >> i absolutely have no, chris. it's possible he's made the decision already.

it's possible he's still deciding. she is a showman and frankly he would not be the only one to string things out to the last to get maximum attention. this is a fairly standard thing for presidential nominees. jimmy carter did it as i recall, ronald reagan burst into the convention hall, breaking all sorts of rules, informal rules about a presidential nominee and announced george bush in 1980. so he is, i'm sure playing it for all it's worth, and he should. >> tim miller, to you, when you look at the options on the table right now, pence seems like a safe choice, right? got that political experience, newt gingrich and christie trump said he has good chemistry with, but you've got, you know, pretty much all of them who disagreed with trump on a lot of policy issues, including free trade, where do you go from here? >> it's not a good sign when trump feels like he needs to shore up his conservative base with somebody like mike pence,

because they don't trust him. but what the reality is the trump veep stakes is trump is trump, and trump is erratic and as chris said, he's going to make decisions for himself. i don't know that his vice president really matters that much. donald trump is not the kind of person to rely on a vice president. quickly on chris christie, one big issue with picking chris christie is in the primary, trump said multiple times, chris christie knew about bridgegate, which if true, is a crime. and so that would basically be trump saying either i was full of it back then or i don't care that chris christie committed a crime. >> chris christie also called trump unfit to be president. i mean, there was a lot of back and forth there. >> look, that's the nature of the game, that's one of the reasons that people don't have faith in politics -- >> don't call people a criminal. >> the rules are gone, and that's why people have -- >> who's less wrong? >> who is more wrong? >> this is the question of the day. who is more wrong? >> i can't wait to flay freaking game with you, chris.

>> i'll drink to anything at this point, chris. the idea of asking for ginsburg to resign, is this the right way to handle the situation? i don't think anybody can argue that a supreme court justice should not weigh in on the election. there's no official rulebook, but they don't do it for a reason. do you like trump's response? >> sure, i do. you know, i'll tell you what, when you read this article she gave an interview in, that's not the only really out of the park political thing that she said. she said how she wanted to, if it were up to her, she'd get citizen's united overturned, she chas sized the u.s. senate for not confirming garland to the supreme court. what she's saying basically is she's a politician. which of course is ben's big criticism and that's one of donald trump's criticisms of the court. they're not in the legalities or the constitutional, they're into politics. sop she has played right into this. and he's hit it out of the park,

yeah, he ought to make it a big issue. >> chris, jeffrey made a career here on your network on defending all of donald trump's dumb political statements, and so now, judge ginsburg says one dumb thing and she has to resign. >> wait, wait, wait, paul, jump in here, not of of as to apples all. >> the late senator came up with a concept in crime actually called defining dooef yen si. we accept it, worse and worse and worse behavior as the norm. that's what donald trump has done. he has defined civility downwards, of course justice ginsburg was out of line. of course she was. supreme court justices, they're supposed to do what the late justice scalia did, which is don't say anything in public, and then steal the election in private from the guy who got more votes. which is more partisan? i happen to be more offended by what scalia did, i think what the justice did was wrong.

donald trump played into this. he told the senate there were 12 articles in the institution. there's only seven, don. >> gentlemen, gentlemen -- >> gentlemen, come on. >> all i know, it's time to go. fellas, thank you very much. appreciate it as always. let's take a little break here. when we come back, a former alabama beauty queen, kalin chapman james is making heat after the dallas attack. take a look. >> i don't feel sad for the officers that lost their lives, and i know that that's really not my heart, but i can't help but feeling like the shooter was a martyr. >> she's going to join us live. she's going to explain why she said what she said, next. the ford freedom sales event is on! with our best offers of the year! ♪ i'm free to do what i want... and 0% financing is back!

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welcome back to "new day." kalyn chapman james, the first african american woman to be crowned miss alabama right now taking heat for comments she

posted on facebook in this video after the dallas police shooting. >> i'm dealing with a bit of guilt because -- because i don't feel, i don't feel sad for the officers that lost their lives, and i know that that's really not my heart. i value, i value human life. and i want to feel sad for them, but i can't help but feeling like the shooter was a martyr. >> that video has since been taken down, and she has been placed on leave from her job. she says she's received death threats. she's with us now to talk about it, kalyn chapman james joins me, thank you for being with me

this morning. >> thank you, poppy, for having me. >> out of the gate let me ask you, what we just watched, that was a few days ago, that was sunday after you left church. is that still how you feel today? >> you know, what people witnessed was a lot of emotion in progress and like i said in the video, guilt, confusion, and really a conflict about how i was feeling. and i process those emotions and i think any person with a heart and a conscious has to realize that, you know, the death of those officers, and the death of the men who were shot, i mean, it's tragic. and it's senseless violence that affects all of us very deeply. and a lot of people said oh, she did that for attention or, you know, she is spreading hate, but it wasn't about that at all. i think about dr. williams, the trauma surgeon who treated the officers who admitted that he had been so deeply affected by all of the things he witnessed

in the media, and those, those, the way i was affected was in direct conflict with my personal values. i do value human life. since then, i watched the memorials for the officers and i couldn't help but feel extremely sad when i watched one of the sons of one of the officers draped over his father's casket. i know what that feels like. i suffered and mourned with him. and honestly the video was me trying to reconcile my feelings, try to understand why i felt that way, and even asking for guidance. and i think people latched on to one word, and it's amazing that a world can watch the exact same video and get two totally different responses by latching on to one word that i really used in the context of a person dying for his beliefs, not my beliefs. >> and that is what is so important here. and that's why this is such an important part of the debate. the word you're talking about is the word martyr. and we heard the dallas police

chief, david brown, say earlier this week, words matter. words matter. and we heard the president yesterday talking about the equal value of all lives. would you use the word martyr again today? >> well, again, i wasn't saying that he's someone i celebrated, that i hold in high esteem, a marter is truly and the simply defined as a person who dies for their belief. and that's really all that -- that's the context in which i used it. that's not belief. >> you expressed sympathy for him. that is part of the context as well. >> right, it's complex being an african american in america, watching people being gunned down. it doesn't mean that i don't value all human life, because i do. but i think that i've been, you know, more directly affected by the atrocities i've seen done against people of color, so i had to deal with that as an african american woman. and i do have to admit, while i

detest the killing of those officers and the taking of innocent lives, i did, in a way, i understood what could drive the shooter to do something like that. i would never do it, i don't condone it, i don't consider him a hare. and i think it's really important for people to realize that i don't consider him a hero. i don't advocate -- >> what do you consider him? >> regardless of their color or their lifestyle. i consider him a kill ore. i consider him a frustrated, angry person who decided to take the law into his own hands. and if that continues to happen, our country will continue to deal with senseless, violence that's absolutely unnecessary. and that's, it's really bigger than this video. what this is about is is the way that all americans are deeply affected by the senseless killing that they're witnessing on a daily basis. some people are becoming desensitized, and that's what -- when i came out of church and i was grappling with my feelings and i prayed about it, i

realized, there's something really wrong here. i'm being desensitized because i know i would never feel, i would not ordinarily feel any sympathy for someone who decided to take a human life. and, you know, to kill police officers. i said time and again, i have family members who are police officers, i respect what they do, i know how much they put their lives at risk, but, i just had to deal with my own feelings. and that video was sent, it was posted on my personal facebook page to my friends, people that i know, know my heart and understood what i was grappling with. if -- i never condoned what he did. i never celebrated what he did, i admitted on the video that what he did was wrong, and that i'm against that. and you know, it's really all i can do, people are who are racist and want to put their racist agenda, want to lock on to that word and villainize me, but that's not who i am. it really isn't. >> look, it's an important conversation to have. i do appreciate you coming on, talking about it with us. and hearing that your thoughts

are with all those families of those fallen officers. kalyn chapman james, thank you. chris. come up with a lot of wrong ideas in situations like this. we heard the presidents yesterday, bush and obama, obama said we need to find the character to unify. president bush said we need to remember our loyalty to humanity. how do we do that? how do we bridge this divide? we have comedian and political commentator d.l. hughesly, he has given some of the most powerful and emotional commentary on this situation to date. he's going to weigh in next. this family needed their windshield replaced but they're daughters heart was set on going to the zoo. so guess what, i met them at the zoo. service that fits your schedule. that's another safelite advantage. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ world saleilton is on honors members save up to 25% on brands like hampton, doubletree, hilton garden inn, and waldorf astoria

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time for cnn money now, allison costic joins us live this morning from new york stock exchange. >> two days two all-time highs. dallas city at a record after a three-day winning streak. the s&p 500 hit the all-time high on monday. what a wild year it's been for stocks. big drops on this concerns about china, crashing oil prices in the brexit vote, all now a distant memory. nasdaq also hitting a

significant mark for the first time, it's positive for the year. the dow and the s&p 500 are both up more than 5%. the nasdaq also up again a third of 1%. wait for your 401k, many funds reflect the averages. if you couldn't bear to look at your account earlier in the year, chris, i would say today is a pretty good day to go ahead and check your account. chris. >> pretty, pretty, pretty good day, says allison. thank you very much. all right. so the last time d.l. hughley was on the show, he got emotional and for good reason. he was talking about his life as a black father. and his concerns for his kids and what he's forced, he believes, to talk to his kids about. we have d.l. hughley back, and we're going to build on that conversation. and discuss his ongoing twitter war with rudy giuliani. what matters in this conversation should matter to you.

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then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates. maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. just one of the many features that comes standard with our base policy. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. and i just do not understand, we love our children, we love our parents, our mothers, our fathers, they're brutalized, and nobody says anything. it's too much. it's too much. >> emotional words from d.l. hughley the last time he was on "new day." they came after those two police shootings back to back in baton rouge and minnesota. we to want talk with him again

because the situation has grown. radio talk show host, d.l. hughley, author of black man, white house, is back with us. d.l., thank you for coming in. >> i promise not to cry this morning. >> well listen, let me tell you something, very often, vulnerability is strength, to show you you feel in a situation like this is very powerful. very powerful. >> not at my house, it wasn't. but okay. >> why wasn't it? >> it does make you feel a bit -- and certainly something i didn't intend, and even getting up this morning and being asked to salespeople on it, to me, no person can incapsulate, you know, like one black man with 33 million people, one black man, we are a race of people again, barack obama and flavor flav. i don't think one guy can hit that note. >> there seems to be, i'm with the police. i respect the police, i believe in the police. or there's, these shootings are

wrong. not the same way white people are and it's got to stop. why can't we see those as the same continuum of concern? >> they're not binary -- >> but they're being treated that way. that's why i ask. >> i think that black people have always been brutalized by police in this country to a greater way, even when nuclear families were together, before the reasons have changed. before you could get killed because you were looking at somebody in the eyes and deems as suspected. there's always been a need in this country to make us feel maligned and kind of justify the reasons that people can brutalize us. to me, they're not mutually exclusive. i think that your bias and opinions as a police officer, biases and fears should not been me being killed or killed by them or somebody getting angry and frustrated and what happened in dallas is a license to kill police officers. that i think humanity, when people die is a sad thing for

everybody, but i think that you want people to be safe out there. whether it was a blue uniform, has black skin. i don't think that's the same. the first thing that hams when a young black man is people instantly go on and check his criminal record. as if that justifies what happened to him. when the boy fell in with the gorilla, the first thing they did was check on that boy's father's criminal record. the first that i think they did was check on his father's record. trying to malign him to justify what happened to him. >> and what happens then? then you have awe pendulum effect, so then and get it covered. and the officer winds up being acquitted -- >> everybody winds up being acquitted. >> that's not true. >> gurley got killed by the police officer. >> that's right. >> he got sentenced and still didn't serve one day in jail. >> look, justice is certainly not a perfect system, it's supposed to be fairness under law, it doesn't always work that way, the idea that nobody goes

to jail, that's not true. >> here's the thing, 98% of people do not. i can give you a litany of names where people have been killed, and nobody brought to account. that doesn't happen, when you tell me all lives matter, if you show me a number of white kids or, non-black kids getting brutalized like that. i'd say the same thing, but no one can give that. >> there is a danger in false parody, you're right. more whites get shot by cops then blacks, you don't adjust for population and there are factors that go into it as well. i've been researching like crazy, how i can be a value here? and i had a social scientist say to me, this idea that blacks resist more than whites, i'm trying to put my hand on it, i don't think that's true because blacks have an odd disposition, they feel that way.

>> how about 120 more, but there are 120 million more. >> we have five times more likely -- >> five times more likely. >> you know what happens, racist and bigotry have great pr. people throw out statistics that they know aren't true but people will believe it because they want to. black people are five times more likely to be shot than white people. black on black crime, when you say black on black crime, that gives you the incentive to do something about it. it gives you a call for action. now we have an immediate situation that has to be dealt with. when we repeat those things, it gives it breath. >> you also have a situation where what happens in the

immediate sense often context gets lost. why do you have more blacks coming into contact with police where it turns violent? so you start looking at the numbers. well where are these police? what's going on in the neighborhoods. you can stop your analysis and say they're high-crime, poor, black areas, feel for the police there, they have to do the job, but why are they high crime areas? where's the education? where's -- this is complex, and i feel the reason that people don't have an open mind is we don't want to go there. we don't to want go with the real reasons. let's end it with this one guy and the one cop, do you think that's the right way? >> it hasn't served well. look at tamir rice, he was a 13-year-old kid playing with a toy gun. the police officer that shot him was employed by the independence police department and fired because he was such a bad police officer, they thought that no amount of training would ever make him a reasonable officer. then they put that very officer, nine months later in cleveland, and he killed someone.

and society, and we all know this, we all know this happened, and he's let off, and it's not his fault. you cannot tell me all lives matter when someone treated distinctly different. i can mourn for police officers that got slain and i can mourn for two black men slain. i don't have a moral dilemma in it. >> i think that all lives matter is a perversion of what makes black lives matter special. >> sure. >> there is an obvious inequity, everybody knows that, the reasons need to be debated, how you fix it needs to be praised, but there's an obvious parody, my question to you is, i want you to promise to continue this conversation. two, i want you to give me your best sense of how can we get better from where we are? >> it is a simple -- you know, everybody asks that question. do unto others how you would have them do unto you. a time to kill, and made this great analysis and said if she

were white, he made that equivalent to her being white, people are treated different, bias, police officers have fears and biases, and there's no doubt about that. but if your fears and biases get me and my anger and frustration get you killed, as human, we are no less or more human. a moral reason why someone's slain in the streets, and it would be if young black man slaughtered five police officers or you see police officers slayed bay black man. when rudy giuliani says black lives matter, let me tell you something, i don't think all black people are all anything or all white people all are all nick. to cast the same breath of micah johnson would say that all think like dylan roof. and to allow somebody to say that on air and go unchallenged saying it on air because a lot of people -- >> not here. >> no, no, a lot of people want

that because it adds that. >> when it comes from someone like rudy giuliani. i've been watching the twitter war, people can see for themselves. but do you think that he was trying to make a more aknock white house point, have love for humanity. >> there was nothing loving, he was a brutal mayor who had basically a reign of terror on the city, to me, taking parody advice from rooud yi giuliani is like kim kardashian giving me marital advice. it is ridiculous when you have a person who says some of the most heinous things to black people and to say something like that every time somebody says something about injustice, they have a chance. gandhi was a terrorist, mandela was a terrorist, and all they were trying to do was fight for legal -- for justice. and to me, when all white men tell black men thousand act. that's the most ridiculous thing in the world. like he'll tell you how to tell

wlak people to speak a certain way and act an certain way is no way. >> bush said yesterday, we need to remember our loyalty to humanity, obama said, we have to define it. d.l. hughley, i feel like you're doing both. thank you for being here to continue the conversation. >> indeed, thank you. >> our coverage continues as well. let's get to newsroom with ann nap cabrera. anna. happening now in the news room. stolen guns and a mad search for bullets. to target police. how officers foiled the plan. >> we are not as divide as we see. and she say he's a faker. he sails her mind is shot. the feud between justice ginsburg and