this is gps the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the wormd. i'm fareed zakaria. on today's show, i will bring

you a gps exclusive. the 77-year-old cleric accused of being the mastermind in the attempt to overthrow the turkish government. did he do it? fethullah gulen in a very rare interview. his first and only one-on-one since the failed coup. and russia trump and the hack of the democratic national committee. did russian agents perpetrate the hack? we'll look at the evidence. and what to make of trump's comments about clinton's electronic messages? >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> sarcasm, as he claims, or conduct unbecoming a potential president? we'll dig deeply into the long distance like between trump and putin. and the two dueling political parties of the united

states agree on very little. but there is one thread in common in their party platforms. they both want to break up the big banks. why? >> financial sectors creates only 4% of all u.s. jobs but it takes 25% of all corporate profits. >> but first here's my take. as party conventions have shown over the past two weeks, the political world has been turn e upside down. let me talk about a personal member. i came to america in 1982, attracted to the country and deeply interested in its politics. those were days of economic trauma, a deep recession and national security fears. still, i found myself fascinated by ronald reagan and his republican party. reagan seemed to embody the spirit of america, optimistic, flee.com loving and big hearted. the democrats were well meaning

but in pointing out domestic flaws and foreign policy failures they seemed to miss the big picture, that the united states not the soviet union represented the future. today it is the democratic party that radiates confidence in america and republicans who harp about their country. the 1984 convict very long enti first i had the chance to watch the address i remember most is the celebrated one from the republican konst vengs in dallas. reagan had appointed his ambassador to the u.n. a lifelong democrat jean kirkpatrick. she secured the democrats with argument that's could just as easily be be applied today to the republicans. i should note jennifer ruben has also written recently on the resonance of that speech. kirkpatrick explained she had xmriered democrats such as harry s. truman because they they were unashamed at seeing america as a great nation but the democrats

she said had now lost that instinctive faith. when moscow was hostile, she noted, the democrats chose not to fault the kremlin but instead blamed the united states. listen to her charge. >> but then they always blame america first. >> those words became a catchphrase for the campaign. it was an exaggeration as all this kind of rhetoric is, of course, but it captured something real as it does today about donald trump. whether talking about the chinese or terrorist attacks or vladimir putin, he doesn't really criticize them. instead he tends to focus on american flaws, washington's weakness, stupidity, naivety. kirkpatrick more aptly applies to the republican nominee. she said the of the democratic party -- >> she behave less than a dove or a hawk than like an ostrich.

like ran ostrich, convinced it could shut out the world by hiding its head in the sand. >> and she roundly reswrekted this retreat. >> the united states cannot remain an open democratic society if we are left alone, a garrison state in a hostile world. >> kirkpatrick noted that reagan's success derived from his confidence in america. that's not how donald trump sees the country. >> this country is a hell hole. we are going down fast. >> we contrast, it was the poised and confident obamas who reminded their party their country and the world -- >> america is already great. >> posters and pundits point out that a large majority of the country feels we are on the wrong track, that in these circumstances optimism won't work. but it's worth keeping in mind

that in the last 45 years the period when this question has been asked as dean oeb adella notes, there have only been three brief periods when the majority of the americans thought the country was on the right track. clinton and obama are making a big bet, that these negative sentiments are neither deep nor permanent. they're banking on the hope that americans are not so angry that they will embrace the politics of decline and division. in this their channeling franklin rez volt in the depths of the depression and the wake of war, roosevelt believed that the majority of americans wanted a country confident in its future. that was the democratic party he built and that is for the most part the one we saw on stage this week. in 1980 just before i got here, a large majority of americans thought things were headed downhill. four years later, they were convinced it was morning in

america. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. let's get started. >> the democratic national convention may have ended on a high note but began an on a sour note, showing that party officials had given -- a u.s. official told cnn there was little doubt that russia was behind the hack. donald trump used the opportunity to invite russia to dig a little more. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> under fire for those remarks, he later claimed he had said it

sarcastical sarcastically. there's much to discuss. let me bring in today's panel. david sanger is the national security correspondent for the "new york times" who has been out front on much of this story. mash sha guessen ann apple balm an author and max boot a military historian and senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. david, where does this story go from here? do you think there will be more revelations? do you think there will be more we'll learn from u.s. intelligence agencies? >> well, i think there are a few things to look for, fareed. the first is whether there are more revelations and we don't know if whoever is holding this is doling them out. there's a fair bit of forensic evidence that points back to these two russian intelligence agencies but that doesn't necessarily means that's who's got the documents today. i think the second thing to look for fareed is the question of whether or not there is any relationship between the people surrounding mr. trump and the

russian authorities. i think the third question is whether or not the u.s. government decides to actually accuse russia of being behind this hack. so far, the u.s. government has been very cautious, just as they were cautious about the hacks into the state department, the white house and the joint chiefs of staff, all of which are widely believed to have been conducted by the same actors. so it's a really remarkable story in which you may now have for the first time that we can recall a foreign power seeking to influence an american election through cyber means. but we don't yet quite have the evidence as you frequently don't in cyber to be able to prove that case. >> ann, you have written that this kind of thing is not so unusual for russia to do to try to influence elections on the eve of the election or during campaigns in europe. >> yes.

no, there's a pattern now. it sometimes involves hacks, as did was done in ukraine. it sometimes involves secret tapes as in central european countries. it involves funding of political parties, in some cases information campaigns, disinformation campaigns to support one party or another. but russia has been very actively involved in european politics for the last several years and generally the pattern is that they're looking to support people who are in the case of europe anti-european but also anti-nato, anti-american. not necessarily pro-russian. that's not necessary for them. they're looking for spoilers and they're looking for people who can disrupt and undermine democracy and in particular undermine western democratic multilateral institutions like i say like eu and nato. >> max, what would be the motive here? would russia and putin really

have a strong preference in your view for trump over clinton? >> it's pretty clear that the russians do have a strong preference for trump fareed. in the first place, putin blames hillary clinton secretary of state for backing protests against his rule and in the second place and i think perhaps even more important is the fact that trump is the most pro-russian american presidential candidate ever. i mean, he has nothing but kind words for putin when he has nothing but nasty words for everybody else. he's said that nato is obsolete, which is a key goal that russian foreign policy seeks to achieve, destroy nato. trump says he would not defend nato allies against a russian invasion. he watered down the republican platform so that it did not call for providing arms to the ukrainians to resist the russian invasion that's going on there. he has even said that he is open to recognizing the illegal

russian annexation of crimea. i mean, if vladimir putin was going to draw up a candidate for the american presidency, this is who he would come up with. >> masha, you think too much is made of this trump/putin love affair, friendship? >> yes and no. i mean, i agree with everything that's been said so far. i just think that the important points when we start talking about, you know, is trump in conspiracy, i think we go too far. i think the important points about putin are that putin hates hillary clinton. he will do anything to make sure she is not elected. and that is in the chronology confirms this, why the hackers were in the dnc. aside from the fact that they're generally zrumt disrupters and try to disrupt the politics of all western powers. but if trump is elected, he will be elected by americans, not because he is a candidate that

pouten putin is promoting. >> stay with us. max boot mentioned the whole issue of trump's views on nato and things like that. that was all in an interview david sanger did with donald trump. and i will ask him about that when we get back.

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an interview with you where he essentially said that he was not sure he would abide by the automatic guarantee that exists within nato, that is an attack on one is an attack on all. it is the article 5 kmixt. when he told you that, he said it would depend on whether these guys have paid their fair share, when he said that, do you think he understood how controversial he was being, that he was really taking exception with or violating seven decades of american foreign policy? >> fareed, we had two different interviews, my colleague maggie and i, with mr. trump. one was in march, and that was when he took the first step here and said, if nato allies don't pay their fair share, then he would think about pulling back from nato. he was going beyond where president obama, where people like robert gates have gone in

the past where they have all urged the nato countries to pay more and made it clear that the american public would lose some support for nato, they thought, if the member countries weren't paying more of their own defense. in the second interview which we did during the cleveland convention, i then asked him to go the next step and asked him, would you automatically come to the defense of any of the baltic states that might be invaded by russia? n any of the baltic states that might suffer any kind of short of war kind of attack? and his answer was a very transactional one. it was, i would look first to see what contributions they made to nato. and you saw president obama take a shot at that during his speech at the democratic convention when he said, our alliances are not up for sale.

we make commitments and we abide by those commitments. i think to mr. trum temperaturetemperaturp it's a much more transactional relationship. we provide protection. you pay for it. we look at things like what our trade deficits are. it is not a broad concept of where american interests are or shared interests are but rather how the transaction would work out. >> anne, a lot of foreign policy experts believe that it is the automatic guarantee, the unconditional guarantee, that the united states provides that has kept the peace in europe, that has deterred a certain kind of expansion. you live in the heart of this. you've spent part of your life in poland. do you think that this has rattled eastern europe? >> yes, very much so. obviously particularly the baltic states since david's interview asked particularly about them. it's very important to understand that nato is not an aggressive organization. it was not created to invade other countries. it was created as a deterrence,

as an alliance, as an institution that would prevent invasion. and yes, it does very much rely on a kind of assumption that if something happened america would intervene. it's built to -- it's built almost on a guarantee and almost on a promise. trump by saying that he said, he's now said it actually repeated repeatedly. i think he said it back in 2008. he said it in books xs. he's said in conversations. trump by undermining that assumption of the american guarantee has i think already damaged the alliance. he's already helped put into question, will america really come in? is the alliance real? is the nuclear umbrella real? >> max, you describe yourself as a lifelong republican. you've always been -- you were a tough cold warrior. you've been for an aggressive expansionist american foreign policy that preserves order, preserves the peace.

what does this all make you think? >> i'm horrified, fareed. this is not the republican party that i joined in the 1980s when it was led by ronald reagan when he was saying, mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. now we have a republican nominee who seems to be in ka hoots with the russian leader who is calling the russian leader to carry out cyber attacks on his political opponent, a former secretary of state, somebody who expresses nothing but admiration for putin. if you recall, this amazing interview that trump gave last fall to morning joe, where he was actually asked, now, what about the fact that putin kills his political opponents and journalists? are you troubled by that? and trump's response was, well, we kill people, too. it's staggering to me because this is exactly the kind of moral relativism that ronald reagan and other republicans have been decrying for decades. this is the world view of the san francisco democrats, the people that jeanne kirkpatrick

was denouncing in 1984 who blame america first. it turns out it's actually donald trump who blames america first and he's taken control of the republican party. what's staggering to me are these republican leaders who have called for the expansion of nato they have done a 180 and they are suddenly backing donald trump who says the opposite of what they have espoused for decades. it's a shattering and deeply depressing moment for me that this has happened. i cannot believe that the republican party has sold out everything that it stood for and created an opening for the democrats now to become the strong on defense party. >> masha, in the russian president i notice another one of trump's comments is being highlighted in that same press conference where he sort of invited the e-mails to be unearthed, he also said when asked about crimea, whether he would accept the annexation of crimea, he said we'll see,

whereas of course every other western leader has said no, never. has the russian media playing up the idea of trump as a kind of -- as somebody who will end the sanctions on russia and isolation and be much more pro-russian? >> absolutely. and the russian press has been generally -- and by russian press we usually mean russian state press -- playing up the idea that putin has influence on the trump campaign when about a week and a half ago or two weeks ago when carter page trump's foreign policy adviser was in moscow, the kremlin leaked the information that page was in moscow. and then they sent reporters to a lecture that carter page was doing to ask page whether he would advise trump to lift sanctions on russia. putin very much wants to create the impression that he is

playing puppeteer with american elections and that he has trump in his pocket. >> foascinating important conversation. thank you all. when we come back, the republicans and democrats agree on very little except this. they both want to break up the big banks. we'll explain why when we come back. your receipt for a chance to win a u.s. olympic training center experience and over 1,000 other incredible prizes. visit milklife.com/champions to enter. and over 1,000 other incredible prizes. ♪ one♪coat, yes! one coat guaranteed marquee interior. behr's most advanced paint. come find our top rated paints, only at the home depot.

donald trump: i could stand in the middle of 5th avenue i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay? and you can tell them

to go f--- themselves! you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever... you gotta see this guy. ahh, i don't know what i said, ahh. "i don't remember." he's going like "i don't remember!"

in this wild election season in the united states, there are very few areas of agreement between the two parties. except one. both want to break up the big banks. both platforms call for bringing back the 1933 glass/steagall act. bernie sanders put it in the democratic platform and the donald trump put it in the republican platform. fdr signed glass/steagall shortly after he took office to

douse the fuel that fired the stock market crash of 1929. the act separated plain vanilla banking, deposits, savings, lending from investment banking in which banks use cash to invest or speculate. that part of glass/steagall was repealed in 1999 ironically during the clinton administration. so why in the world do the republicans and democrats agree on this? joining me is -- whose great new book makers and takers delves deeply into the heart of the issue modern finance. she is an assistant managing editor at "time" and a cnn analyst. so why is it that both sides have converged on this idea? is it at heart that people feel like these big banks are dangerous? >> i think so. i think that you've seen a lot of populist anger around this issue on both sides of the political spectrum, and if you look at the facts, there is some

justification for this. you know, over the last 40 years, finance has tripled in size as a percentage of the u.s. economy. financial sector creates only 4% of all u.s. jobs but it takes 25% of all corporate profits so that's a lot of economic oxygen being taken out of the room. there's also a feeling and research to back it up that the financial sector has gotten so large that it's actually become a head wind to economic growth rather nan a catalyst as it was meant to be. >> so one of the fears about these big banks is that they are too big to fail. >> right. >> either they fail and bring down the whole economy with them or the government decide that's's too risky so they bail them out. is that a valid concern? >> it is a valid concern u. know, as part of the dodd/frank financial regulation that came in post-2008, you now have these sort of living wills, the fed regularly looks at these banks, could they be wound down in the case of emergency? nobody really knows until it

happens. it's going to come down to political will. i think it's going to be very difficult if we were in a similar situation to 2008 for any pol tipitician congress to yeah, let them fail. it will be interesting to see what happens. >> hilary clint chb eironically has said things that she is not in favor of reinstituting glass/steagall. look, it wouldn't have helped at all in terms of 2007-2008 becauses the banks that failed were not covered by glass/steagall, in other words, bare stearns, lehman brothers, merrill lynch all of those were actually separate and exactly the way glass/steagall allowed. >> true enough. hillary has a point. one of the reasons i think bernie sanders didn't get farther with the break up the big banks argument is it's complicated. a lot of risk has migrated from the big bank noose the shadow banking sector which hillary is concerned about. i don't want to say that

bringing back glass/steagall to preventing the crises. there's plenty of things that can happen even if we have a glass steagall rule. >> back to your book the distortion that this produces in the economy, this kind of huge large finance and large banks is that companies themselves become more focused on finance and financial engineering, general motors is a great example. explain that. >> yeah. gm, ge, i've looked at a lot of these companies in my book. it's interesting. all of them have become much more interested in the last 40 years in actually moving money around the balance sheet and in doing financial services themselves. until recently, ge was a too big to fail bank. gm's ignition switch crisis was part because of this system. the ceos of those systems are trying to change that. but if you look statistically all u.s. businesses across all industries get five times as much revenue today from

financial services as they did in 1980. so it's like we're all bankers now. >> on that note, rana, pleasure. >> thank you. >> next on gps, my exclusive interview with the man who the turkish government says was the mastermind behind the recent coup attempt, fethullah gulen is a 77-year-old cleric who lives in self-imposed exile in pennsylvania. you will want to hear what he has to say in response.

just over two weeks ago, all eyes were on turkey as that nation's government fought off a coup attempt. it was a dramatic night during which it was unclear to observers just who was in charge. with morning it came clear. president erdogan was still in command of the nation. the bridges east and west and asia. since then president erdogan has presided over a severe crackdown. since the coup, more than 15,000 people have been detained

including 10,000 in the military, more than 8,000 have been arrested including 5,000 in the military. more than 20,000 teachers have been suspended and about 130 media outlets have been shut down. almost all of those are in trouble because of suspected ties to this man, fethullah gulen whom president erdogan blames for masterminding the coup. gulen is a muslim cleric who calls his movement -- which translates into service. turkey calls the group the fethullah gulen terrorist organization. just days after the coup, turkey requested the 77-year-old gulen be extradited to turkey from his self-imposed x ed exile in the d states. i met gulen at his compound in the pocono mountains in rural pennsylvania for this exclusive interview. mr. gulen, thank you so much for joining us. >> translator: i do thank you.

>> let me ask you about the coup. the prime minister of turkey has now officially said that there is a direct connection between you personally and the people who plotted the coup in turkey. what is your response? >> translator: let international organization investigate this matter in depth. if there is anything i told anyone about this verbally, if there is any phone conversation, if one-tenth of this accusation is correct in fact, i will bend my neck and will say they are telling the truth, let them take me away, let them hang me. but i am talking with certainty. i have neither talked to anyone nor did i say anything to anyone on the phone. now in the background there could be naive people tricked who are sympathetic to you or appear to be sympathetic to you

in the situation or pressured so say things with promise of a reward. i don't know and i don't be able to say anything about them. howeveror, one of the most important proofs of a hastily made decision is the fact that the day after the event thousands of people were fired from their jobs. this clearly shows that they have been labeled previously and they needed a scenario for such operations. common sense and good conscience tells us as such. >> the prime minister and people around him have now made a very specific charge which is that the coup plotters captured the chief of staff, the army chief of staff, and that he was told that he could be put directly in touch with you and you would persuade him to support the coup. is that true?

did you have a message out to the army chief of staff, or did you offer in some way to talk to the army chief of staff? >> translator: seeking forgiveness from god. if i talked to joint chief of staff, one should ask him did he talk to you on the phone? did he send you a message via someone? or did he send you a written and signed document? i only know him from distance. sfafrs as far as i know him from a distance he's a man of integrity. i don't think he will say anything contrary to truth. in this respect, one should ask him this matter directly to him with its entire background and if there's such a scenario and if somebody were tricked into saying something to him, it should be investigated.

>> but who do you think organized this coup? >> according to some, the ultra nationalists have planned this and they put some religious appearing people at the front in order to demonize them with the idea that such a scenario would receive grass root public acceptance, some said so. in fact, the president himself said this has been a godsend for us. from now on, we can do whatever we want easily, et cetera. >> you think erdogan may have secretly planned this coup himself? >> translator: i would consider such a claim as slander, that is, even if he were my archenemy wanting to drink my blood, i will submit myself to god before i make such an accusation knowing that i am accountable to

god. >> but you don't deny that many of the people involved may have been sympathetic to you and your idea ideas. >> translator: there might have been some sympathetic people among them. i would consider them to be be betraying the nation. i would consider them to be disrespectful of my longtime ideas basic thoughts. because in every coup d'etat the poor have been adversely affected. i have been against coups since i have spend my entire life with coups and pressures. i have the opinion that nothing good would come out of coups. coups will divide, separate, disintegrate and make people enemy of each other. this animosity would also affect future generations just like it is in turkey now. in this regard, as the common sense requires, i have always been against coups and i curse

them. i would curse people who resort to coups against democracy, liberty, republic. this is my general opinion. >> we will be back with more of my xmusiexclusive interview wit fethullah gulen. i will ask gulen what he would like to say to the man accusing him of being the mastermind of turkey's coup attempt.

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back now with more of my interview with the person whom turkey accuses of masterminding the recent coup attempt. i met with the 77-year-old cleric fethullah gulen at his compound in the pocono mountains of pennsylvania. the government charges that you

have created a pa ed a parallel that you have a network of schools that brainwash people, that you have people within the bureaucracy that are sympathetic to you. that you have people in the army who are sympathetic to you. and that this creates a danger to the turkish state. what is your response? >> translator: yes. it is completely natural for people of a nation to be appointed in positions in their own institution. this is to say that they are a part of turkish nation and they see themselves as a part of turkish nation. they see themselves as anatolan people. this country belongs to those who have sympathy for yours truly as much as it belongs to other. whether i know them or not is

another issue. i cannot know who has been appointed in which position. >> but just to be clear, the claim of the government is that you have all these people who are in the military and the bureaucracy and the judiciary. they are loyal to you and that at your urging, at your direction, they are trying to destabilize the erdogan government. you say no. >> translator: i don't think it is possible. as i have just mentioned, some people stage a scenario, that someone who is seemingly a fan has let some people into this. it looks more like a hollywood movie than a military coup. it seems something like a state scenario. it is understood from what is scene that th seen that they prepared to what they already have. i'm cautious to say that -- i

think, i am not jumping to a conclusion, i am not making a definitive statement. this is what it seems like is happening. >> there's a poll out, an opinion poll in turkey. it says a majority of people believe that you are behind the coup, and a majority of people, a very large majority believe you should go back to turkey and be tried. how does that make you feel? >> translator: when the oppositional media is totally silenced and not a single one is left, and they are in control of all media organizations and voice the same claims again and again through radio, television, newspapers and magazines, it is a natural result that there is such a public opinion at the moment. >> would you be willing to go back to turkey?

>> translator: going back to turkey would complicate the issue even more so and turn it into an impossible problem to solve. they will do whatever it takes, but if they could provide evidence for one tenth of what they have been claiming and take me back by force, there is not much i can say about this. what matters is whether or not they can do this by means of law, and i don't think this will happen with the will of god. >> what is your message to president erdogan? >> i only pray that he would not go to the presence of god with all these sins he committed. >> mr. gulan, thank you so much. >> translator: not at all. i would like to thank you. they have come all the way. maybe i have heard them with my inappropriate words, so i apologize. >> that was the cleric whom turkey wants extradited

immediately from his self-imposed exile in rural pennsylvania. the turkish justice minister has said that his nation believes the elderly cleric is a flight risk in the united states and that if the u.s. gives asylum to gulen, it would bring negative impacts to relations between the two nations. i should note that we did offer to fly to turkey to get president erdogan's side of the story. his office declined. we will be back. lly made of. after five hours of spinning and one unfortunate ride on the gravitron, your grandkids spot a 6 foot banana that you need to win. in that moment, you'll be happy you partnered with a humana care manager and got your health back on track. because that banana isn't coming home with you until that bell sings. great things are ahead of you when your health is ready for them. at humana, we can help you with a personalized plan for your health for years to come.

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a country's high gdp does not necessarily translate into its citizens' well-being. that's according to a new report from the boston consulting group, and it brings me to my question of the week. which of the following countries has improved its citizens' well-being the most since 2006, according to the report? china, germany, south korea, or ethiopia? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer.

this week's book of the week is actually a movie called "eye in the sky," which stars helen mirren. the movie follows the decision-making involved in a single drone strike. somehow the director is able to make that utterly gripping and yet raise all the political and moral issues that surround this new and highly unconventional form of warfare. it is an entertaining movie, but it will also make you think about something very important. the correct answer to the gps challenge question is d. ethiopia topped the countries who made the most progress to improve their citizens' well-being, according to the 2006 sustainable economic development assessment report. ethiopooet yoeethiopia has help6 and 2014. life expectancy, for example, has increased from 57.3 years to 64 years in that time, according to the most recent world bank data.

overall, citizens of western european countries have the current highest levels of well-being, while the united states ranks 19th. in part due to high income inequality. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hello, everyone. thank you so much for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. he is the standout speaker from the democratic national convention whose powerful message is resonating across the country. but provoking outrage and criticism from donald trump. >> donald trump, you're asking americans to trust you with their future. let me ask you, have you even read the united states constitution? [ cheers and applause ]