if you miss any show, check out our podcast at cnn.com/podcast. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, and i will see you next week. hey, good morning, i'm brian stelter, and this is ""reliable sources."" our look at the story behind the story, of how news and pop culture get made. at this hour, is this cause and effect. donald trump is slipping in crucial swing state polls and he's attacking the media like never before. is he rewriting the art of the deal with the art of the blame? and at trump rallies, some of the hostilities towards journalists is really shocking. it covering trump and being at these rallies has her worried about her personal safety. and a change at fox news, how will it look as a viewer, as

a journalist? first, with apologies to nbc, let's start donald trump's favorite show, no it's not the apprentice, it's beat the press. that's what he's doing right now, running an anti media campaign. the media is trying to cover a man who -- trump says the media is trying to take him down. he says they're trying -- we're trying to protect hillary clinton. >> i'm not running against crooked hillary. i'm running against the crooked media. that's what i'm running against. but these are the most dishonest people. the good news is, i love -- you know, i put down failing at "new york times." the newspaper is going to hell. crooked cnn, cnn is so disgusting. cnn.

oh, look, their camera just shut off. their camera just went off. that's funny. i got to know all the cameras. all these red lights on. >> the cameras never did turn off, they continued to broadcast and there were several cnn reporters at the rally last night. joining me now for a perspective about how the trump campaign is being covered by the press, jason, i know that you have strong feelings about a "new york times" story on the front page of today's paper, you say it's a hatchet job. the story describes trump. what's inaccurate about the times story? >> thank you very much for having me on, brian, i appreciate the warm introduction. i referred to the article as a liberal hatchet job. this is exactly why the american public is so frustrated and

irritated at the media and why they view mr. trump's campaign is being treated unfairly. there was an article on the front page of the "new york times" today, there was anonymous quotes from meetings that quite honestly never happened. we have an energetic base, we're talking about how we're going to rebuild the economy. trump will be in youngstown, ohio, we're putting good messages out there, they're starting to contrast hillary clinton. but brian, really quick. >> are you asking for a correction on anything in the story? >> these cakes are already baked before they even get to us. it's completely ridiculous. it's chock full of -- >> tell me what you mean by that. >> they're talking about supposed events and meetings that didn't take place. >> what meetings? >> it's talking about things that quite frankly didn't even

exist. this is a campaign's energized, we are having excellent events. it's not just today, it seems to be groundhog day where every day or every week, the "new york times" and too many other publications are writing things like this. it's chock full of people who don't want to come out and put their names on what they're saying. and we're going to push back on it. >> i can imagine, this is a very difficult job you've got. i could imagine you would like to have a flack jacket at times when dealing with reporters, but you're not asking for any corrections on the "new york times" story? >> we're being asked to punch at ghosts here. when you can have an entire story that has, you know, these supposed quotes and you know descriptions of meetings that quite frankly never even happened. >> you're throwing doubt on the sources. do you have any evidence of the times manufactured sources?

>> brian, that's not what i'm alleging. >> why did he say they were nonexistent? i found that on offensive. >> some reporter, i'm not going to go after reporters by name or try to make this thing personal. but someone is writing down and believing that they're talking to someone. but the fact of the matter is these meetings didn't happen. the entire description of this is garbage. you ask if we're going to have a retraction. i would urge people to cancel their subscription to the "new york times." >> when i was using anonymous sources of the "new york times," i had to tell some of the top editors of the paper what my sources were. when he says that these sources were nonexist end, that means that he thinks they made up the story. >> they were talking about things that didn't exist, when you talk about a retraction, i

would take the entire article and throw it in the trash. >> okay, i know what it's like to have stories written about you that are false. i have had stories written about me that were so untrue, i could document it. i have had stories that i -- do you feel like this is a case where you don't want the stories written, they're painful to read, but they're true, that there are struggles behind the campaign? >> we have a unified candidate with that campaign, we have a candidate who knows exactly what he needs to do, who's talking about the economy, defeating islamic terrorism. what we're not seeing out of too many publications, the "new york times" being one is what exactly is going on with hillary clinton's campaign. we're not seeing the attention that deserves to be paid to the corruption, to the pay to play

scandals, the disastrous hadn handling of the middle east. those emails were all about yoga, they weren't all by wedding plans. we want to know where those 30,000 emails are. >> last night trump renewed his warning against the "new york times," that he's going to stop giving them press credentials. is that going to happen? >> we'll see, obviously today's article was complete nonsense and we'll be reviewing that very closely. >> do you think it's -- >> our events are open to anyone. anyone can sit in the audience, but as far as areas we have blocked off for press credentials and increased access. if there's complete biassed,

ridiculous reporting that's going on, we have to stand up and defend ourselves. >> almost every day this week, you have been sending out emails, the label specific web pages and articles as examples of media bias. is it fair to say that donald trump also consumes bias media and then repeats things that he hears on fox news? >> well, brian, you're putting up a couple of images of these. so very specifically what we have started doing with the campaign is that we have started pushing back on these examples of media bias that are out there. a lot of times when folks think of media bias, they might by thinking of a reporter editorializing. or the full picture of what's going on isn't actually being presented to the reader. but one of the biggest problems that we have are the filter with which news is being presented to

people. there were two days in a row this past week, where the "new york times" or maybe the week before, where the "new york times" had two top of the fold, t stories, where hillary clinton was going through -- the administration sand secretary clinton's failed leadership, we're continuing to talk about emails over and over again. but there was none of that on the front page of the "new york times." one of the other things that we have started to point out is website biases, washingtonpost.com, our first repeat winner for the biassed media award. the first six or seven stories in the column were hit pieces on donald trump. >> you call them hit pieces, i call them reporting, there's a lot to write about the donald trump campaign. and you're making it sound like there's an equivalent a lot to

write about the clinton campaign. >> when you have in one column seven negative pieces against donald trump and now have nothing on a home page that has nothing negative against hillary clinton. that is a hatchet job, to it's not just the way media is being presented to folks, but it's also the fact that negative attention to hillary clinton is not being reported. and that's a form of media buy yaz as well. and our approach is that we want to let people know what's going on and that there is a thumb being put on the scale regarding how coverage is being given to consumers at home. >> i think media literacy is kmushl. let me ask you about trump holding up charts. he says he's a chart guy now. this is actually from a fringe

right wing website. he's holding up a chart here that shows alleged donations from middle eastern countries to the clinton foundation. but if you look at this website, before it's news.com. it's got alien stories, conspiracy theories, things like that. who check this is data ahead of time to make sure the sources are accurate and reliable? >> brian, on this particular chart, i haven't seen this particular chart. >> who on the campaign gave it to him. somebody printed it out, gave it to him and sent him up on that stage. >> this particular chart, i have not seen that, these are usually produced with our policy department. but what mr. trump is talking about is that the american economy is going down and is not doing well under president obama. >> we can't start with the facts, if he's going to hold up made up articles or made up charts from fringe websites, how

can we believe what he's actually saying? >> brian, are you saying that our american economy is going in a good direction right now. >> i want all the candidates to hold up charts that are factual lir accurate. >> i would like to see a chart from hillary clinton showing where those emails went. that's what i would like to see. >> so you think she would hold up charts as well. but where is he getting this stuff in who's vetting this stuff? >> you already heard me give the answer, i haven't seen that particular chart. but the point that trump has been making is issues about the economy. >> i got to give you credit for coming on this morning. somebody else we have been trying to book is katrina pierson. she's trump's national

spokeswoman on television. one yesterday that was inaccurate, let me play the clip and then ask you about it. >> what i'm saying is. >> we just said we weren't in that -- >> obama and hillary clinton -- that was obama's war, yes. it was under barack obama and hillary clinton that changed the rules of engagement that probably cost his life. >> i'm speechless because i'm trying to follow your logic here, katrina, and i'm having a hard time. >> i can tell. >> she said that the afghanistan war started under president obama, she later said that there were audio problems that were not actually happening. will katrina pierson continue as the -- the premise about president obama and hillary clinton destabilizing the middle east is an important one, and as

part of that discussion shouldn't be glossed over. >> do you believe that she should continue to appear on television like this? >> katrina is a great advocate for the campaign. that example of potential obviously, obviously i didn't have an ear piece in my ear at the same time. >> i will be the first to admit that live television is incredibly tough. so i don't want to scrutinize anybody too much. it make mess wonder where her sources of information are coming from. >> brian, that's just a ridiculous comment. that's just an unneeded slight toward one of our campaign members and i don't think that's really part of the conversation here. >> my biggest concern of all, is that trump saying the election could be stolen. he's saying the election is going to be rigged and that pennsylvania will only go for hillary clinton if there's cheating involved. what are we going to do jason between now and election day to

ensure the integrity of our voting system? >> in our campaign, mr. trump eels vision and our vision is that we want open, honest and fair elections. >> we all do. >> and we want all the people who are registered to vote take part in this. and we want as many people to participate as possible. again, now -- >> you're a veteran political strategist, for cruz and others. you know how dangerous it is for a candidate to say that this election ask going to be stolen from him. you understand that he could cause unrest in this country. >> we think going into election stay will be a good enough spot in pennsylvania that the only way we could lose pennsylvania is if there's funny stuff going on. there was a report that came out of philadelphia in 2012 that cited a number of voting irregularities in philadelphia,

that in some places he had more votes than voters, you had examples of people voting more than once. we need to make sure that the integrity of our elections is intact, regardless of where it is, whether it's in philadelphia or anywhere in the country. this is important and people fight hard for the right and the ability to vote. and we want everybody who is legally able to vote. >> but voter fraud is vanishingly require and your candidate is sewing distrust in the system. just to be clear, you don't think it's dangerous for him to be doing that? >> i think it's important for him to raise the issue of voter integrity. and that's why we're for voter id laws. i think you're going a little bit too hot on this. >> if hillary clinton was saying that the election is going to be stolen, i would be freaking out abouta right now. >> when you see the corruption and the pay to play and the

dishonesty of hillary clinton in the past week, but brian, the one thing i would also just want to make sure is that when we talked about media bias a little bit earlier, one thing that's not accurately being portrayed is the enthusiasm and the size of these crowds that are coming out in support of his campaign. the fact that he is energizing and mobilizing entire parts of this country who have felt left behind, people who have felt disenfranchised. >> that's why reporters shouldn't be blacklisted. they should be able to be in the rallies. will you submit to taking them off the blacklist? >> i think we should see honest and unbiassed reporting from all news outlets. >> so it's sort of a test, you're testing them before they can have access to the press club? >> we want to see honest and unbiassed reporting. our events are open to the public, so people can come, but if people want the special

access, i think it's only reasonable for us to ask for honest and unbiassed reporting. >> i hear you on that, and i respect that. >> i was going to say that doesn't mean that we're going to like every single story or everything that's written, but we want to have an honest exchange of ideas and make sure that is being presented and it's not about always even the article that's below the headline, but it's also about making sure that there's honest representation of what's going on with the enthusiasm behind mr. trump's campaign, his economic vision, his fighting to defeat islamic radical terrorism. and this week hillary's been on vacation. i guess it's nap time, i don't know. >> thanks for your time. after the break, one of the great magazine editors in america joins me to discuss coverage of donald trump and hillary clinton.

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and being fair. what does being fair look like in an election the likes of which we have never seen before. some reporters think that trump's campaign is a bigger story than the clinton campaign. notice the red line, you see it spike up there in the middle of july, that was the republican convention, then you see a spike on the blue line, that's the democratic convention and ever since you see trump leading clinton in terms of the number of mentions on television, clinton getting a lot of coverage, but trump is getting more. is the way that trump is being covered fair? he does not think so. let's talk to a former editor who has spent his career answering questions got this. he was a fellow at harvard's journalism school. do you think the normal standards of journalism apply to donald trump? >> well, i think that in order to answer that, you have to

really define what it is that donald trump has done that's changed the environment and i would -- i would propose that the most overused word in political rhetoric is probably demagogue, and demagoguery, we throw it around like it is almost meaningless. >> what do you mean by the word, define it for me? >> i'm going to read very quickly from that unimpeachable source wikipedia. a demagogue is one who gains popularity by spreading ignorance by the popular people, whipping up the passions of the crowd. demagogues have urnlly directed -- while accusing mod rats and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty. demagogues violate established rules of political conduct. most who are elected into high office change their democracy into a form of dictator ship.

james fillmore cooper wrote a similar article in 1858. there's really nothing new about what he does. what is new and what's challenging hchallenge ing here is the emergence of a demagogue who's very skilled at manipulate televised media and social media. that pie that's what we should be looking at. since 1972, when the primaries were reformed, the media in the united states has effectively been in charge of running our electoral process. the media is neither institutionally nor. temperaturementally.

you have high -- that our electoral process is somehow rigged. that's the questions. >> i think about hillary clinton coverage, there's been tough coverage of her this week by cnn and elsewhere. and yet its true, we're talking more about trump. what do you say to his supporters who say that's a flagrant display of bias. >> because of her many flaws or missteps or mistakes, hillary clinton who's not her own worst enemy, to me, she's still a traditional politician who operates by traditional means, whether you agree with them or not, whether you think they're honest or not. donald trump is more media than he is politics. your show ostensibly is a show about media, but it's become pretty much about politics, and say politico play book is ostensibly a newsletter about

politics, but it's largely about media. so trump is more media than politics and now after using vehicles like cnn to launch himself, he's turned to bite the hand that fed him. and so he can the cause of this media -- he does something every day to put himself in the media, and a classic demagogue always has to have a scapegoat, first it was the muslims, then it was the media. hillary has avoids the media at all costs, she buys advertising, she has blogs, she has podcasts, she doesn't create media -- >> she's interviewed by swung

who supports her, that's her example of avoiding the press. john, hope to have you back here soon, thank you for being here this morning. coming up, the art of the blame. is trump at war with the media or is it the other way around? we want to be fair about this, we're going to look at the other side. (vo) a lifetime of your dog's nutritional needs... all in one. purina one. healthy energy, all in one. strong muscles, all in one. highly digestible, and a taste he loves, all in one.

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hey, welcome back to "reliable sources." if you had to summarize trump's week in one image, it might look like this. this is "time" magazine's cover. an image of trump melting down. it certainly is the media narrative, but is it trump's fault? here's what he tweeted this morning. if the disgusting and corrupt media covered me honestly and didn't put false meeting into the words i say, i would be beating hillary by 20%. does the truth get lost in this

back and forth? joining me now jennifer posener, and steve mosburg. is it true that trump would be up on hillary clinton by 20 points if the media wasn't covering himming innively? >> it's a lunatic fringe that the media is having a war against him. he would not be the nominee of his party if it were not -- >> you think the press has been rooting for trump up until now? >> i don't necessarily think the press has been rooting for trump, but the commercial implications, the commercial biases of media consolidation allowed for trump to dominate coverage, which more than any other gop candidate. >> i just thought he was a better story. >> it depends. if he was -- if they were covering it as a better story, there could have been critical,

there were a zillion different angles to take critical journalistic -- we have cbs as ceo les moonves talking about this may be bad for america, but it's great for -- the exact quote was, this may be bad for america, buttize good for cbs, good donald, go. >> clinton is the one right now buying a lot of ads. did the media build him up just to tear him down? >> i don't know kbhi they built him up. i have been saying for weeks that there is a media war going on. i have never in my life seen anything so disgusting, i have never in my life seen anything so biassed. i can give you example after example after example. i watched jake tapper this morning. 45 minutes went by in that show, a state of the union show, before hillary clinton's emails,

anything was covered. you mentioned that you were worried about delegit mize the licksation. >> i what i know is that no candidate for president has ever come out and said the election is going to be rigged? >> did it wore are you you when barack obama threw off "the dallas morning news" off of his plane? >> that was very different. >> that's the problem. you're calling out tapper's show, but manafort was on for 30 minutes, he had ample time to talk about clinton. >> the suggestion that the media is rigged against trump, donald trump is saying that and you're calling back to it. trump's idea that the election is rigged and that the media is rigged toward trump, is basically like every frat guy that says a woman won't go out

with him, she must be gay, it can't be just that she doesn't like him. >> isn't there media biassed? most journalists have some liberal -- >> individually the political ideologies of journalists don't actually change the overarking structural bias that comes out in the best that's not liberal. when donald trump was talking about a war on him in the media, i just published this week at the establishment an analysis of coverage of trump up until this point and it has been incredibly facile and not critical at all until the unprecedented moment, it took a political nominee, of a major party for president making a veiled threat of assassination against his competitor.

>> can i get a word in? >> can i finish? >> you're saying that the media coverage changed after that time? >> but if i can finish the comments, i will say that when you dog whistle to unstable members, a certain small percentage of members of the club the media finally went off script and covered him critically. >> hillary clinton said i'm not developing out because -- in your mind, brian, they're not the same thing, what she said was worse, she said i'm not dropping out because robert kennedy was assassinated so barack obama might get assassinated. how is that not the same thing or not worse? >> to call out to second amendment people that they should do something with their

guns. >> how about the plagiarism? >> online this afternoon -- i've got to take a break, though. jennifer, steve, stay with me, don't go anywhere. but i have one segment i really want you to see right after the break, it's an important one, we have been working on it for months. there's been some interesting behavior at these donald trump rallies. we're going to talk to a reporter who's been at dozens of them, right at a quick break. ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. introducing the first-ever cadillac ct6. does your mouth often feel dry? multiple medications, a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications.

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hey, welcome back. have you heard of the press pen? it's where the journalists are kept during trump rallies. trump's events are different. he oftentimes, almost always actually criticizes the press and that causings the crowd to boo and jeer in response. at one event this week, the crowd kind of turned on the reporters in a new way. that anti-hillary clinton chant of lock her up, it began as lock

him up. this trump supporter calling reporters in the room traitors, saying he is a patriot. he put up his middle finger in response at one point. i think it's important to look at how reporters are treated during these events. you have been at over 100 rallies so far? >> just about. >> trump's campaign rallies? are they different from a journali journalist's perspective. >> a donald trump rally is just a very different beast than another candidate's rally. >> and when you're being booed, what is that like? >> the way the campaign structures it is think put reporters in this cordond off press area, as reporters come into the auditorium, they often come over and take pictures of us because they haven't seen

reportered positioned like that. >> do you feel like you're in a zoo? >> there's a feeling of that, because people are looking at you and trying to get a sense of who you are. >> when i'm on live shots, people come over and take pictures. some reporters say it's not threatening, but sometimes it does feel threatening. have you ever felt personally in danger at these rallies? >> it's something i have not experienced. but i think it's quite different for network correspondents who are familiar faces to a lot of people at these rallierallies. but it's undeniable when you are sitting in the room and 100,000 people take their eyes off of trump and turn to you and start booing and raising their middle finger fingers. you see more of that footage, people screaming at us, calling

us liars and trade fors. >> sometimes people are nice? >> it's actually kind of lovely to see, we have got people who come up and thank us for being there. a lot of people do not obviously interact with reporters all that frequently and i think that all of us try to be as considerate as possible and can see that we're real people, that we're giving up our kind of lives to be there to work there. and i have actually had very positive moments with trump supports. >> it sounds like it's kind of getting worse? >> it definitely -- you have seen over the past couple of weeks as trump has been struggles that he's increasingly blaming the media. in his speech now he dedicates long portions of his remarks about going after the media. >> doesn't he refer to us as the lowest form of humanity? >> i have to say i'm a fan of yours, we all work really hard. what am i supposed to say. >> i think we make mistakes

sometimes, i think we should fess up and learn from those mistakes but most reporters are trying to do their jobs at these rallies. >> most reporters are standing there for hours, they come over and ask to charge their telephones. >> maybe we canably chargers for all the trump supporters. hannity spreading his conspiracy theories with hillary clinton's help. nobody really believes that i take notes this way, but they actually make sense to me. i try to balance my studying with the typical college experience. this windows pc is a life saver! being able to pull up different articles to different parts of the screen is so convenient. i used to be a mac user but this is way better. i just want to find a used car without getting ripped off. you could start your search at the all-new carfax.com

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[ hip♪ olympics 2016, let ] me get you on my level. ♪ ♪ so you never miss a moment, ♪

♪ miss a minute, miss a medal. ♪ why settle when you can have it all? ♪ ♪ soccer to wrestling. track and field to basketball. ♪ ♪ fencing to cycling. diving to balance beam. ♪ ♪ all you have to say is, ♪ "show me," and boom it's on the screen. ♪ ♪ from the bottom of the mat, ♪ ♪ to the couch where you at? ♪ ♪ "show me the latest medal count?" ♪ ♪ xfinity's where it's at. ♪ welcome to it all. comcast nbcuniversal is proud to bring you coverage of the rio olympic games. welcome back. let me ask you a question. if photographers followed you around for decades, would they come up with any embarrassing video of you? with that in mind, watch sean hannity. >> some of the weird pauses she has, the coughing fits she has, there are moments when i'm

literally watching her and i'm thinking, the facial expressions are odd. they seem off. >> well, i don't know this because i'm only looking at video but i saw the same video you saw and i'm wondering about where you're searching for words, you suddenly loose those words and that could be the sign of a traumatic brain injury. is it possible she had a stroke or do you really believe it was a head injury, traumatic head injury. >> i believe she had a concussion with a possible brain injury. >> let me go back to this video that is on the screen. we'll put it up again. it's a violent, violent, repetitive jerking of the head. you can see, it's uncontrollable. watch the reporter pull back. the reporter got scared and she keeps doing it. what is that? >> let me be clear. that was reckless speculation by sean hannity.

this is promoted by conservative news sites for years. there's a grain of truth to the idea about her health because she did have a health scare in 2012 and it was well-reported at the time. her doctors now say she's physically fit to be president. there's no doubt violently uncontrollably jerking her head. the reporter got scared, he said. sean, why not go ask the reporter. go ask the reporter. she said fox never contacted her and said she was never scared. here's what she said happened that day. reporters were asking about meeting with elizabeth warren. lots of questions to ask. "perhaps eager to avoid answering or maybe just taken aback by our volume, clinton responded with an exaggerated motion, shaking her head vigorously for a few seconds." the conspiracies are so much

more interesting than the truth. fox still has the word "news" in its name. it's many things, including a news channel as well as a political channel. rupert murdoch has spoken. as you know, roger ailes is out, he resigned weeks ago. and so now there will be co-presidents of the channel. are these the only changes for fox news or just the beginning of many other changes? joining me now to discuss that is sarah ellison, contributing editor for "vanity fair" which really explores the concern that fox news employees have about the future of the channel. sarah, clearly the murdoches are trying to get all of this over with and name new bosses so we'll all move on. what's the significance of these appointments on friday? >> bill shine started his career as a producer for sean hannity and they have both been with fox

for a long time. jack abernathy left for a while but this is the effort to move on and the fact that roger ailes who controlled everything is gone. it's trying to cut the head off of this hydra and then leaving behind a lot of the people doing what ailes asked them to do. >> it's showing that they don't believe they need brand-new leadership to clean the house. >> they feel they would kill the goose that lays the golden egg. >> and lose some of their stars. >> like sean hannity. >> the allegations against him, the law suit by gretchen carlson now more than a-month-old and there are settlement talks under way. what can you tell us about the latest on that? >> the settlement talks are something that have started pretty recently and one of the things that came up in those

settlement talks, multiple women were taping calls with roger ailes and that's at issue in the discussions which is -- the number that i heard floating around was eight figure settlements. >> more than $10 million? >> more than $10 million. >> you're saying there's multiple tapes of women recording inappropriate talks with roger ailes. >> that would lead you to believe they were not just talking about the weather. >> what do you expect to happen next? >> it's got many more -- there's a lot more that is going to come out. i think what we'll see is an effort of interest didverging. i think we'll have more women coming forward. >> we're out of time on tv. let's keep talking online. sarah, thank you for being here. we're out of time on tv. sign up for our newsletter,

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