tv Smerconish CNN August 20, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PDT
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of them just don't work. trust me, i found out the hard ways. only three of them stayed connected, the stiphon worked well. the samsung microphone x is the best and they are the cheapest at $199 and look the best and felt the most comfortable. "smerconish" starts for you right now. ♪ i'm michael smerconish, home in philadelphia. fascinating week. trump pivoted, he shot but
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didn't score. donald trump didn't offer any apologies but he did tell us this week that he regrets some of his behavior. he softened his tweeting tone. and last night asked what they have to lose by voting for him. and he is empowering a conservative firebrand to manage his effort and proving in the process what i've been saying about who holds the real power in the gop. i'll talk about trump with that other reality tv billionaire mark cuban. you know, he tweeted a complaint at me last week during the course of the show. so i invited him on. and another campus firestorm, this one you might not have missed. should college students be allowed to demand of a particular roommate. and more controversy on ryan lochte and this makes me more sympathetic to him.
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but first, i told you so, six months ago i told you that if you want to understand the rise of donald trump, you should look to the people with microphones. in an essay that i co-authored with brian rosenwall that got a million views on cnn.com, we wrote this. over the course of the last three decades the media personalities have surpassed party officials and elected officials assaulting to the staff of atop publications. dannon wrote as "the new york times" wrote, he's a per -- purveyor of scorched-earth right-wing media who dwells in the darker corners of american
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politics. the website he runs breitbart news, recently accused president obama of importing more hating muslims, compared planned parenthood's work to the holocaust and called bill kristol, the conservative commentator a renegade jew, and advised female victims of online harassment to just log off and stop screwing up the internet for men, illustrating that point. this used to be earned by insiders paying their dues and gaining seniority. today it's achieved by insiders and the two have different priorities, political parties they exist for just one purpose, and that is to win ideological vessels. but not the titans of talk, they are on a business mission with a goal of computer clicks and ears
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and eyeballs all to generate revenue. so the passion, the engagement and desire for conservatives to breitbart news or liberals to msnbc is what it takes to win a general election. for their first act, they considered a more contrite trump with the recruitment, mr. trump would ensure that the next three months will be highly entertaining for some. but the question remains whether they are far too alienating for many. joining me now, buck sexton, regularly fills in for sean handy, and amy from rasmussen reports, and brian rosenwall, an instructor from the university of pennsylvania writing a book on the development of talk radio. bob, let me begin with you, are
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conservative talkers upset with trump as their nominee reaping what they sew? >> it depends what conservatives you're referring to. there are people who have done everything in their power on the conservative media to prevent the rise of trump. there's the very prominent never trump movement. if you actually look at the national review week and among others, they believe trump has hijacked the republican party and this is a faction. trump-ism, if you will. in part largely because you had 17 candidates starting out. now you see one gop individual of the laboratory individual and has taken over things. so some supporters have been on the trump early on, but others said this was a disaster for the
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gop and they continue to say that to this day despite the fact we have had the convention and trump is the nominee. so it depends on which fraction you're looking at. >> brian, if i pick up on what buck said using the word laboratory, the guys with the bunson burners are pouring the concoctions for 30 years. and donald trump is showing them in their own image, am i wrong? >> absolutely. this reminds me of a guy eating poorly, not exercising for 30 years and turns around exercising and six months later surprises he has a heart attack. he's validated the views of the conservatives that wanted a community and talk radio provided that community for them and cable news now and websites like breitbart.
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and the fact is that this is -- he's a creature of this. i mean, this is -- you hear his fans saying the things about rush bah in the early 1990s. >> amy, the political argument i'm making is that is great for the base, that will put 20e 20,000 people in an arena. but part of me says that's not necessary. am i wrong? >> i would agree in saying you can't apply that. many are pointing a finger at who gave us donald trump.
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if you look at the midterm election in 2013, voters said to mitch mcconnell and paul ryan, we want to put the brakes on legislating by executive action, by president obama taking this agenda to the left and donald trump supporters, if you look at polling data, they span the ideological spectrum. they are not just from the right but they are voters who want a voice in politics and feel the beltway politicians have not been listening to them for a very long time. >> but buck, here's what i'm saying in drawing a lynn year connection between what you hear on the radio and conservative athlet athletes. is it any surprise during the course of the campaign you hear donald trump talking about megyn
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kelly talk about blood coming out of her wherever. or the other experience was glenn beck making reference to barack obama as a quote/unquote racist with a deep-seeded hatred for white people. is it any doubt that you're going to hear candidate trump say out the risks and peril that the obama presidency has presented to america? i see it all as connected. they have cultivated a receptiveness to the tonality and speech. you can reply as i know you disagree. >> yes, those are completely disconnected. i don't know how it is that you go and pull comments from different individuals over a period of many years to say, this comment was bad or i didn't like this, this comment was bad, therefore, that is what the gop have come to when you look at what is said on the left by all sorts of people in the media. i'm not really sure what you're saying, what, there is a courseness that conserves in
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media but not in liberal media? >> no, i'm saying it may exist in liberal media as well, but it hasn't taken control of the party. and the reason i'm bringing it up on the outlooks is formally running the trump campaign. so it is coming full circle. >> hold on. i want jump in here. >> one at a time, one at a time. bill p you go first. >> the idea that zrump the culmination of decades of radio. you have some of the most conservative talk show hosts in this country who are horrified by this. >> they built the lab, they just don't like what it created. amy, respond to that.
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>> i think you don't like what the american people are saying through donald trump. and where i wanted to zblump is you're also -- i believe that kellyanne conway is shaping donald trump voters. so you're pointing to breitbart rightly, but you're not pointing to the fact that donald trump just delegated a woman known in conservative circles, also in television and right-wing media, is actually being a very lovely, thoughtful, centrist woman and i think that is not very fair of you, michael, to be honest. >> i had her here last weekend as my guest. dr. rosenwald, bail me out here. i'm under assault. >> no, michael, you're 100% right. you can't put the genie in the
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bottle once you left it out. you can't cultivate something for 30 years and say we don't like it. to amy's point, it's not the american people but a segment of the american people. the segment great for making money on fox news or talk radio, but you can't elect a candidate. you can't win with 45% of the republican base that got donald trump to this point. if he does not come back to the center and hiring steve bannon is that he wants to continue down the chain to be entertaining to thrill his fan, but how does that get you to 51%? >> ironically, what i find amazing is that paul manafort, his private campaign manager that now resigned, kept promising us a presidential pivot that never happened and then he hired steve bannonand it does happen. donald trump does give the speech and goes to louisiana to start the outreach. so i have just -- this whole theory that zrump creating cre
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that donald trump is creating. >> guys, this is a great subject for more talk on a different date. thank you for being here. tweet me @smerconish. i'll read the best later in the program. still to come, a sfasbook post looking for a roommate led to the headline, students at claremont colleges refuse to live with white people. is that accurate and acceptable? plus, he funds entrepreneurs on "shark tank" and now is in the tank for hillary clinton, billionaire and smerconish viewer mark cuban is here. another fan of the program, kellyanne conway just made reference to by amy. she tweeted me after appearing on last weekend. check this out. hey, i hope that doesn't cause mr. trump to tell her that she's fired.
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i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself,
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do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] and as of now, i'd have to say no. when you ache and haven't you're not you. tylenol® pm relieves pain and helps you fall fast asleep and stay asleep. we give you a better night. you're a better you all day. tylenol®.
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we love getting your feedback on twitter. last week i got a complaint from a billionaire viewer whose done reality tv and become a real american power in american politics. no, not donald trump, mark cuban who owns maverick -- the dallas mavericks and is the star on the reality show "shark tank." cuban tweeted, smerconish, he never proves anything, schweitzer, he is the king of innuendo. mark, you did tweet me interviewing peter schweitzer, and i don't know if you took the time to read the book, but i thought it was well substantiated. and his reporting was built on by abc, by "the washington
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post," by "the new york times," not exactly institutions looking to do a hit job on the clintons. >> no, they certainly reported on it, but when you read the articles, they don't come to conclusions, they just report on what he wrote. i'll give you the perfect example. he talked about the iranian deal, right? he made a big deal that there was a big pro quo and she sold the rights to yuranium, et cetera. he didn't say there are nine agencies that had to approve the deal, including the treasury department, the department of security and others. he didn't talk about what their response was and it didn't seem entirely like it was secretary clinton's decision. and there's reporting that said she was not involve in the decision. >> mark, i like you because i think you're an independent
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thinker. you say liberal things. that is what i do. i don't know anybody so robotic that they see the world off to a liberal or conservative lens except for the tv presenters from whom i rub elbows, so that is why you're here. people are saying this guy did a hit job because he had association with the coke brothers. he might have an association with the coke brothers but may not necessarily mean -- >> i don't care about that. >> maybe a -- one final observation and then i want to get off this, but you tweeted at me while having the conversation because what was documented last week in the news was how this lebanese businessman who had expertise or wanted to contribute to the state department, there was contact made by the clinton foundation doug band to the state department at the highest level and said, hey, he's an important guy, give him an audience. now, apparently he never got a meeting, but there is supposed to be a chinese wall between the clinton foundation and the state department that seemingly was breached. >> no, i don't think there's
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supposed to be a chinese wall. look, if i haven't given money to any campaign, but if i called somebody -- in this administration a future trump administration and said, you know what? can you guys help me get access to so-and-so? they are going to try to make an introduction because it's an american business or, you know, it's an affiliate, somebody they are trying to help. that happens in politics every day. that happens in government every day. that's the job of the state department is to facilitate international, transinternational commerce, international security and other things. the foundation does good things. when they say this lebanese business person just wanted to convey information, never got a meeting and just conveyed information, then somebody did their job. they felt the information wasn't worthwhile. there was no reason to have the meeting. there was a connection made and nothing happened. nothing happened. >> so this has been an interesting week, paul manafort is out, steve bannon is in, i expected the campaign would go
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in more of an insidiary direction. and yet on thursday night we saw a more conciliatory donald trump. what do you see? read those tea leaves? >> i don't know that we saw a more conciliatory, showing regret is far different than apologizing, but i will give him credit and did on twitter that his presentation skills were far better. he didn't look bored reading the teleprompter, he was engaged and emotional and that was something we had not seen from him when reading prepared remarks. i have given him credit for making the move but it doesn't change the content. so we'll have to see what happens there. >> you are known for your business prowess, has it occurred to mark cuban, and this is hot online so let me float the theory, that this is all about business and that the tag-team of trump and bannon and ailes somewhere in the background now that he's out at fox, this is all about building a conservative empire that can take business away from fox news. >> no, i don't see that at all.
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but i will see, i have not dealt with steve bannon in a long time but have in the past and he was super smart. i can say quite confidently he's a lot smarter than donald trump. and that the master plan is probably steve's. and i think a lot of what happens, steve is smart enough to make it donald's idea. and i think this is going to benefit steve bannon, it's going to benefit breitbart news, but i don't see donald participating in the benefit whatsoever in terms of what happens after the fact. >> mark, help me understand what went on, because last september i remembered 20,000 people coming to the home of the dallas mavericks and donald trump praising you for facilitating that visit. >> he paid me to use the arena. he's a customer. what could you like to know? >> well, come on, at that time you said publicly you were open to the idea of being his running mate. >> right. no, when donald first got into the race, i was actually very
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excited. i thought it was a unique opportunity for somebody with a business background to step in and change the game. i liked the fact that he was honest and he didn't give prepared comments. so i thought there was a real opportunity. and on top of that, i was really not a fan of ted cruz. i was clear to be an abc person, anybody but cruz, because i thought ted was a demagogue but he's also smart. that's a dangerous combination. so i told donald that i would help him try to get past ted cruz. but i also told him at some point you have to dig in and learn policy, understand the issues and recognize that it's a very difficult job. and that the only certainty in the position is uncertainty. and if you're not willing to learn and read and dig into the issues, that's going to be a real problem and that's where we had a falling out. >> i know you don't agree we donald trump and made it clear that your support of hillary clinton is not just opposition
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base to trump. there are things about her candidacy you like. here's a question for mark cuban, do you look at him and say, wow, he's had a hell of a ride and maybe i should look at the serious run in the future. has he changed your true? >> no, the exact opposite. there's so little -- >> how so? >> there's so little focus on policy and programs and getting results, you know, we cover the same five, six topics over and over and over again. and we never go into depth about any of them. there's no real new discussion. we don't -- we don't talk about automation and the impact on employment. we don't talk about what is happening in terms of internet naming. we don't talk about patents. there's all these little things that add up into big things that no one even brings up anymore because we scream and yell, whether regrets means apology or
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not, and whether clinton's foundation and clinton cash and all the other nonsense is real or not. and then we call her to lie and lying hillary and catch donald in his lies. there's no their anymore, why would i want to stand in the quagmire. >> have you stopped to think about the impact of "shark tank" beyond the episodes that get aired? >> oh, yeah. >> i have four children, three of them are teenager sons, one is now 20, but we watch it together. we talk about business strategies and ideas and it occurs to me that the ripple effect from what you've started must be enormous. >> oh, it fills me with more pride than you can imagine, michael. the reason i do the show is one and only, it sends the message that the american dream is alive and well. we have been told, anyways, we've been told, i'll use a donald quote. people have said it's the number
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one show on television watched by families together. that's important to me. i hear it all day long, parents come up to me with their eyes welling up with pride about how -- for example, like the one you just gave, their kid, their son or daughter who might be 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 years old is now talking about starting a business. talking about wanting to be an entrepreneur. something they have never talked about before. that's why i do the show and why "shark tank" is important. that's why donald trump is wrong because the american dream is live and getting stronger. i'll put in a plug again. i have sat and talked with the clinton campaign and they are wide open to listening to me on a lot of ideas on small business, creating better efficiencies, reducing paperwork, et cetera. i could never get through the door talking to donald to begin to talk about those things. so the two dovetail together, but i'm super proud. and the new season starts on september 23rd on abc. >> i can't wait.
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just in time for the night of to end and for me to go back to "shark tank." >> "the night of" is great show, isn't it? >> awesome. unbelievable. two episodes left. thank you, mark. good to see you. thank you. >> always. still to come, i should have asked mark cuban whether he thinks kazir did it in "night of." and when does a roommate spark a national debate? only when the person writes "person of color only" apply. and what do you have to lose? look, what do you to lose? you're living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58% of your youth is unemployed. what the hell do you have to lose? this is the summer.
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another campus firestorm erupted into a national debate this week. this one about roommates and race. it started with a facebook post. an african-american student at pitzer college was seeking a fourth roommate for an off-campus house and wrote, poc only, meaning people of color. she later defended herself saying i don't want to live with any white folks. it got picked up by a student newspaper with this headline which then got picked up nationally. can that seemingly discriminatory post be defended? joining me is a civil rights attorney, areeva martin. areeva, my mother is a real estate broker, my wife is a real estate broker, you know the
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rules that apply to ads. now, this was a facebook post, but my god, you can't even advertise a mother-in-law suite. how can this be justified? >> well, you know that the fair housing act, michael, has exceptions. and i think the whole conversation has been framed inappropriately. and everyone's pouncing on this student and the other two roommates in this situation. and for me, this is not about racism or segregation. it's a cry from help by an african-american student and her roommates who are saying on this campus where the population is 5% african-american and almost 50% white students, they feel ostricized and isolated. i think the president on campus did a disservice denouncing the student's comments rather than reaching out to the students to figure out what drove the students to the point where they felt the need to make that kind
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of statement. that's the real injustice here is that the students have not been embraced in their issues framed in a way to give them some kind of peace and solitude on that campus. >> here's what you made reference to, melvin oliver is the president, can we put that up on the screen? because areva just noted while he said pitzer is a community of individuals passionally engaged in establishing intracultural safe spaces for marginalized groups, the facebook post and several sub constituent comments and inconsistent with our mission and values. our shared goal is to create a balanced approach to engaging complexion intercultural issues not to isolate individuals on the basis of any protected status. >> i agree with part of what reva stated, it's part of the
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trend of recessi-segregation ta part on campus. many students feel there's a double standard when it comes to codes of behavior. had it been a white student, the student would be forced to undergo mandatory sensitivity training and may find his or herself in a position where they would be under some type of penalty on that campus. they would certainly being ostricized. >> reva, if it had been white students who had acted similarly -- >> i would take the case for the three students who made the facebook post, mike. the issue here, race issues on college campuses are so complex, so nuance. this is the same campus where a dean had to resign her position last year because an e-mail she sent to a latina student saying that student didn't fit the mold
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of claremont student colleges. that's just an example of the racial hostility on this campus. and quite frankly, white students do not bear the burden of slavery. they don't bear the burden of the jim crow era of the violence of segregation. so it is inappropriate to talk about the students without that context. and it is inappropriate to talk about race and segregation without addressing the feelings of isolation they feel on this campus. it's been reported -- >> wait, i want one final statement from you, carol. a final statement from you on this and then i need to raise a different issue. >> what is going on is that we have aggressive affirmative action programs that are bringing some students to campus that are not fully prepared, the students get shepherded into ethnic studies programs where they learn more and more victimization. they are not learning how to think, they are not learning hue to be independent. the whole thing about safe spaces is because some of these students probably should have
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gone to a historically black college or one where they will naturally get segregation. >> there's no evidence of that, that's ridiculous. >> studies show re-segregation and studies -- it is about affirmative action. it is about affirmative action. there's a study that shows that there is more integration on campuses in states where they have banned affirmative action. there's more integration. >> we're not going to solve this one. >> i compose my studies. >> let's try to solve the next one because we have not solved that one. donald trump last night made a pitch for african-american voters. here's what he said. >> and what do you have to lose? what do you have to lose? you're living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58% of your youth is unemployed, what the hell do you have to lose?
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>> i think, and i should add this, when he uses that 58% number, he's adding in all african-american youth regardless of whether they are looking for employment. but in any event, areva, is that a good strategy for him to make that pitch? >> that's the most nonsensical ridiculous strategy ever. he's in an audience predominantly white audience talking about youth, your people, the most insulting comments i have ever heard from a candidate. it's not a strategy. firefight in fact, it's a ploy, it's about white voters. he's doubling down on the white voters and trying to say, i've checked the black box and talked to african-americans. he has no chance to quote african-american voters and historically black colleges and black communities. both of the pictures and pitches he's made this week have been to predominantly whitish shoes. he's not addressing the number
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one issues that african-americans say is pivotal in this race, the justice of criminal justice reform. and when he talks about it, we know he's talking about law and order, that's a racist code word for lock up african-americans. >> but you know, professor, steven a. smith was on this program in spring of 2015 and said something similar. watch this. >> i definitely believe that the black vote has been taken for granted. i'm simply saying, let's not be so transparent in support of one party over another when that does not appear to be working for us. force people to flatter us. white folks do it, jewish folks do it, hispanic folks are doing it, why can't black folks do it? that's all i'm saying. >> professor swane, isn't that exactly what donald trump is saying? >> yes, i challenge african-american that is watching your show to listen to the speech that donald trump gave a few days ago about race
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and law and order. and one reason he's speaking to audiences that are predominantly white is that unlike the democrats, it's not easy for republicans to take that message to a church. that church will find themselves under investigation by the irs. so there is a double standard there. it's foolish for blacks to all be in the same political party with the democrats, what they are doing and have been doing is killing them and keeping them on a plan station. people need to see the new movie, "the secret of the democratic party," because they will figure out that the democrats have never been their friends and the agenda is really killing the population. >> i find that -- i think i am going to bring just the two of you together and spend the full hour covering the landscape because i think the three of us can do it. unfortunately, we're out of time. >> i just want to say,
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african-americans were flattered at the dnc. you were there, mike. you saw how many african-americans were represented at the convention from the bottom to the top. >> window dressing. window dressing. window dressing. >> thank you, both. thank you. still to come, new details on the ryan lochte olympic scandal. and they have got me more sympathetic to the americans. danny savalos will join me. here's another tweet. @smerconish, today's show was the worst i've ever seen from you and it's because you are so desperate to lie for hillary. tweet me separately so anybody can see it and be specific. i want to know what the lie was. back in a sec. you're not you. tylenol® pm relieves pain and helps you fall fast asleep and stay asleep. we give you a better night. you're a better you all day. tylenol®.
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at gunpoint by men dressed as police. but as the week went on, they became the ugly american stereotypes. but now one of the swimmers gunnar bentz released the account and makes me more sympathetic to the men. joining me is cnn legal analyst danny savalos. let me mention to you, they were hammered and were stupid tearing down a sign, but they didn't do anything to warrant the drawing of weapons on them. and why were they paying cash outside the judicial system to be let go? >> yeah, this statement, first of all, is brilliantly crafted. certainly a team of pr and lawyers were involved because it really is a very, very good statement. and its obviously serving the swimmers' interests. but i've been saying this from the beginning, that the problem i had with brazilian authorities holding a press conference and saying these men were not robbed and then in the same breath they
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say, what happened may have been that somebody pointed a gun at them and demanded money. well, that is robbery. and this statement also locks in that lochte may have ripped down a sign, but if you read the statement, then two guns are drawn on them, then they are made to sit down on the sidewalk with their hands up, we saw that from the video, and then thereafter lochte gets into a shouting match with the guards. which doesn't look good for lochte in terms of poor behavior. but in terms of a robbery or some sort of exhortation of force, it doesn't look very good for the security guards, unless, of course, this is a legal common practice in brazil. if you believe somebody owes you money and then you can point a gun at them, i'm not entirely sure. i'm not admitted to the brazilian bar. but here in america that is what we call robbery. and it is probably even kidnapping. >> it seems like they acted, the swimmers, in an asinine faction,
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but where do they go to get their reputation back. it may not be as bad as we officially feared. and i feel many americans have moved on from the story. any chance that my of them have to go back or has it run the process in that country? >> this story changed so many times over the course of the week. if i were to chart the likelihood of an extradition of any of the swimmers back from the united states to brazil, it would be a chance vanishing and going down very quickly. i would say they are approaching zero now. and the only person brazil could possibly be interested in at this point would be ryan lochte. but i have to say, it doesn't seem likely. and then based on the extradition treaty of the united states with brazil, simple vandalism is probably not within the list of extraditable offenses. and nor is giving a false statement to police. although other similar crimes might meet the description, it just doesn't seem likely that this would be considered an extraditable offense by the
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u.s., significant enough to return lochte even if brazilian authorities chose to charge him. >> one final observation. the statement we both read also suggests that there are perhaps other so perhaps there's more to come? >> you know, michael, the thing about this story is in the last week it's as if nobody's heard of anybody giving statements that slant to their own best interest. anyone who does any amount of litigation, criminal or civil wouldn't be surprised that one side, the brazilian side that emerged favored the brazilian story. now here's a good statement from one of the swimmers that happens to favor that particular swimmer's interest. it's not necessarily lying. we all spin our stories, even unconsciously for self-preservation. this is no exception. we may never find the truth. maybe it lies somewhere in between. but we shouldn't be surprised that these two stories are at polar opposites. >> more to come, perhaps.
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dan excellent job. thank you for that. still to come your best and worst tweets. let's see what he or she says, you were great squashing another baseless cnn premise. i don't think that was directed to me as praise. i imagine that was directed to amy and buck sexton as praise. we're back in just a sec.
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you can tweet at me if you can spell smerconish. i don't know what's coming. let's look together. what came in this week? hit me with the best or the worst. trump is yelling what right wing media has been whispering for 30 years. that was my point. the opening segment and i think some misunderstood. what i was saying this climate that allowed his ascendancy was created in the conservative media. the fact that today some of the conservative hosts don't like
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what they created is beside the point. you know the old expression you reap what you sow. give me another e-mail or text or tweet. amy holmes proved your point. deflect anything to be obama's fault. nothing was better for the world of talk is the clinton years. the best is to be outside lobbying grenades inside. maybe that's a scenario that would be reality if hillary is elected. you're a big disappointment. what should the guards have done to retain vandalism suspects? use harsh rhetoric. let me tell you something if it were one of my kids and somebody shows up and pulls a gun on them for urinating outside and wants cash to be paid to them, no. sounds to me like a kangaroo court. see you next week. you don't let anything keep you sidelined.
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what do you have to lose? >> donald trump making a passionate pitch to african-american voters. >> they can make him read new words from a teleprompter. but he is still the same man. >> five individuals have been confirmed connected to the miami beach area. >> what if you're a pregnant woman living in that neighborhood? can you imagine the emotional toll that must take? >> when you get this much rain over this area it will be devastating. >> come on down, donald. glad to have you. >> i want to thank mr. trump for coming to louisiana. he brought attention to our state. >> president obama will travel to the devastation on tuesday. the two
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