>> i enjoyed it. >> thanks again to president obama for his time and his thoughts and thanks to all of you for being part of this special edition of gps, i will see you back here next week for another special edition, this time marking the 15th anniversary of the september 11th attacks. good morning, i'm brian stelter and this is "reliable sources," a look at the story behind the story, about how news and pop culture get made. this weekend is the perfect chance to take a step back and really look at how the presidential campaign is being covered. on a week when sean hannity says that glen beck is waging a holy war against him, and two of the top news -- both in swing states, will tell me about the hate mail they're getting. all year long, i have been hearing one very specific description of the election

coverage. it's not bias, but it's close, it's false equivalents. those who are trying to cover trump and clinton fairly are -- here's another way to frame this idea, when trump is covered, is he graded on a curve making it easier for him. or do these cries of unfairness ring hollow? this morning i have assembled an all star panel of three veteran journalists, jacob weisberg, soledad o'brien, a former anchor on cnn, and mark lieb-- what dot mean to you, what does it signify? >> i was really concerned that we were going to have that, that this was essentially going to be

a process of treating donald trump as if he were a normal presidential candidate. the structure of covering politics is you compare an apple and an orange, they have different attributes. but they're both fruits, you can take your pick. but this is like the difference between fruit and rancid meat. these are things that are outside the norm of what's accepted in american politics and i think what the press is struggling with, how do you not normalize him, but at the same time do your job and be fair as a journalist. >> when you start the show calling him rancid meat -- >> yes, i think trump is rancid

meat. it doesn't represent what republicans have stood for in the past. >> are other journalists not calling it like it is, covering trump like the unique candidate that he is? >> i think it's the contortion to try to make things equal all the time. but hillary clinton points outa what donald trump has done is normalize white extreme i. you would say that clinton is white, and she would say that. >> clinton has made a great argument, like a lawyer, here is ways she has worked to normalize conversations that many people find hateful. i have seen on air white supremacists being interviewed because they are trump delegates and they do a five minute segment. then donald trump will say, hillary clinton, she's a bigot. where the journalist part comes in, they trade barbs, he says

she's a bigot, and she says he might be appealing to bigots. when in actuality, when hillary clinton said that he's a built. when you look at hillary clinton's speech, she actually did have some really good, factual things that have happened and do exist, they're treated as if they are equal, he might be a big-- that's where journalists are failing. >> that may be the default. but i have seen a lot of good examples of the press i think doing their job of calling him out and telling it like it is. like on this show, there's no basis to claim that the election is going to be stolen. not on the editorial page, but as a news story, because that's fact not opinion.

>> that's a bit more optimistic take. mark, are you more optimistic or pessimistic on how journalists are trying to treat trump? >> i should step back and say in fairness, a lot of hillary clinton supporters would say that jacob is just being fair to rancid meat. i think we have to have both sides here. i would say this, there are a few terms that we're using that i think are kind of flawed. the whole grading on a curve. the notion of a curve, in, say, math, fourth grade math, there's something objective that you're basing it on. there's nothing -- the agreed upon argument in our culture, that's one arbiter that can decide. i mean i think the notion here

of sort of false equivalencequi whatever you want to call it, is not so much to strain to call both candidates one from another. to actually use your platform as a journalist to say, look, what donald trump just said has no basis in fact, or hillary clinton hasn't given a press conference in 238 days, but when a blatant falsehood is -- to state it simplistically, that this is just not true. when you get into on one hand and on the other hard thing, and then make a judgment that says this is racist, this is white supremacy, you're basically trying to overturning a judgment that's been rendered by our major party, which is that person is acceptable to be the

head of a party. but i don't know if it's a journalist's job to make that rendering. >> to say flatly, this is not true, or in the case of donald trump supporters, this is white supremacy, doesn't that put you at risk as a journalist? >> the gentleman i'm referring to refers to himself as a white supremacist. >> he would say white nationalist that's the appropria appropriate. >> i'm very slow the call anybody a racist, but i think in this case is it's irrelevant. but are you softening the ground for people who are white supremacists, who are white nationalists so self-identify that way to feel comfortable where they can do a five-minute segment on national television,

and the answer is yes, clearly, and there's lots of ed of that. do i have a question, or do i have a hard time saying that's just not true, i may be overeager to do that. it's one of the most interesting things being a journalist is that when you find politicians -- to say that's not true and here's how it's not true. >> the question is it happening enough? i saw a lot of emails from viewers, one says i am tired of trump and his surrogates being treated with kid gloves. >> television coverage is, it's not singular, i mean there are a lot of different interviewers, a lot of different reports. i think it's been especially glaring in this -- to be steam

rolled especially trump's filibusters, his long answers, things that are often not true. hillary hasn't done that many interviews, so there's a heart of compare son there, i guess we should say, donald trump gets immense credit for making himself as available as he has. at the same time, i think there's been way too much patience for listening to kelly anne conway. fill la -- filibustering one show or another. tv's public affairs shows can say this side has been represented, it doesn't matter if what they have said is complete nonsense or just bad television. i think there's been a movement especially on -- with certain interviews to actually become more aggressive, which i think

is absolutely appropriate in this case. >> jacob, i think some critics would say we're too tough on trump surrogates and not tough enough on clinton surrogates. do you think that's a true statement? >> i think there will be a calling to account after this election about the role of cable news in particular. >> why is that? >> early on, there's a real case to be made that trump was overcovered. now he's a presidential nominee, may be president. but when he was low in the polls, he's been so good for the tv news business financially and i don't think reporters consciously exaggerate his pompbs because of that, but it has an impact. i think in the early days, he got too much attention based on where he was and from cable news. >> if there's any lesson to be learned, it's wow, over the top

hateful speech brings a really interested angry audience, this is genius, we should do this more often. what shall we do when this election is over, we'll have to figure out a way to rile people up and make them angry because that's something that cable news can cover. now it is he said she said all the time. question have lost context, we actually often don't on cover the diet details of something, just cover the back and forth. >> you're talking about hateful speech, makes me wonder if it's just as compelling on tv to fight back against hateful speech. if you say trump is hateful, is there people arguing against it? >> i think it's very compelling to see video of people beating up protesters, absolutely. i think that has been -- i think

the quality and legal of discourse has dropped so far, it saddens me to see and i don't think we're going to have this reckoning that happens after the election. it has made a lot of money, it has done well ratings wise and it's going to continue. >> i think the financial impact of donald trump's presence in this race has not been overstated but it misses the point. i actually think trump's hyper exposure through much of this race has been in a weird way very good journalistically, because he is very expose. anybody who feelings they don't know what donald trump is about at this point, we haven't seen the tax returns, we haven't seen complete or even unfunny medical records at this point. but i feel like most people know what this guy is about. and either they going to vote for it or not. and i think in many ways it's been a very sad election, it's been a very disspiriting

election. but information is a double-edged sword and i do feel like, it's not going to be -- basically people have seen this guy at work being who he is for a long period. >> it's the softening of the stance of the immigration, we're back to the hardening of the stance on immigration, we're covering the drama around the thing and not the policy and the specifics around the thing. and if you were to go and highlight various parts of the speech, you could have a policy conversation. most of the conversations that are happening today are not policy conversations, they are trump says this, clinton says this, what really happens in mexico, the fluff around it. >> this is actually the perfect segue. after the break, i want to ask all of you, where is the substance, where is the policy?

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press. it says that to date, trump's campaign has posted just 17 policy proposals on its website. there are 38 on clinton's issues pages, so rather than duking it out, let's get some straight talk from veteran journalists. so -- doesn't have positions? >> some of the questions that he is on, he's being interviewed all the time. spend some of that time asking policy questions as opposed to some questions that tee up the questions of he said she said, i think that would be more helpful to the public. dig into the policies that american voters would like to hear about.

>> mark, you've been able to interview donald trump, what about when policy or conflict? >> i mean, look, he doesn't give you much, my sense is he hasn't thought much about it. i do think there's a way to interview him on tv. i'm not a tv reporter, but to ask the same question over and over again, and take a fairly incredi incredulous tone. white couldn't the fact that his ancestors came from mexico, why would that disqualify him? i think the problems with interviews this day and age, is that they have their ten things they have to cover, it sort of makes you vunl to a filibuster.

but if you stuck to one thing. i think one of the more revealing moments, some of the more revealing moments about trump in this election, when he went throughout, the nuclear triad, or if someone asked him a few weeks before brexit. those to me are revealing, and there's going to be a lot of people on twitter who are just trying to say gotcha. >> jake, you mentioned conspiracy theories. all those claims about hillary clinton's health, let's look how it's been covered in the past month. >> hillary clinton, illness, take a look at the videos for yourself. >> the weird pausing she has, the coughing fits she has. >> she doesn't have the strength, the stamina or the ability.

she doesn't have the strength or the stamina to make america great again. >> he's been repeating that s-word, stamina over and over again. is the press making it worse? >> he's lost using his surrogates like rudy giuliani, to put -- hillary has put out a conventional doctor's report. trump put out a doctor's letter, and it's not a medical report. so for trump to be standing there insinuating that there's something wrong with hillary clinton is i think a classic illustration of the double standard. what does the press do about it? you've got to point out, as mark said, press him on policy, but point out that he doesn't have

policy s that he has a different idea of a policy in a presidential campaign. >> you're talking about that trump's doctor's note. that's on the one side. there's been so much speculation on fox news, about trump's mental health. >> he's i think clinically inge sane. i really do. >> basically we have a psychopath running for president. >> it's time to hear from someone in the mental health community, to look at this person who's been on television for months, and to give us a sense of what we have going on here. >> soledad, you're responsible to be speculating that way? >> i think it's crazy, if you will, that reporters would tee up people and people would really talk about bringing people in. dr. drew is a really good

example. if you bring someone in and talk about someone's physical health or mental health, they'll do it. there used to be a rule that you would not comment on someone's health if they haven't examined the patient. they would say i have never examined the paint, but let me talk to you about heart disease or stuff and such. people are opining on, here's what this could be. i know dr. drew was talking about hillary clinton's internist is some back water where there isn't that many doctors and maybe they're not that good. i think that's what journalism is doing. don't be surprised that someone opines got a patient. i think that is horribly, w horribly wrong. >> it's true that real psychiatrists won't diagnose

someone they haven't examined and that is still a strong ethical proviso in the -- i'm not making a mental health diagnosis, and actually when i say donald trump is an extreme narcissist, that's a term in popular culture, i'm not diagnosing him. >> one of those clicks were literally talking about the medical definition of insanity or someone who is mentally not well. they're not sort of colloquially saying, hey, i was crazy for a moment about something, so i think it is a mistake. where journalist makes that mistake, a good, ethical psychiatrist should not be diagnosing someone they have never looked at and you can see it on tv all the time. >> i have been worried that mental illness is being stigmatized by some of the coverage of this issue? >> again, i basically agree with what soledad just said, i think

you've got to be very, very careful before rendering a diagnosis. i also think there's a difference between a possible head injury or stamina, it's something you actually have to be looked at and tested. obviously mental health is a different area, but the fact is these are people that have behaved a great deal in public there's a big comment about -- it's not about their deeply probed psychology. could be quite instructive. i do make a distinction between the two, but i think there's a lot of caution we should take before going into those areas. >> soledad, jacob, mark, thank you for being here here. sean hannity and glenn beck are in a war of words. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis,

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you own her, you own hillary clinton. that's what sean hannity hold some of his conservative media counter parts this week. in an angry radio monologue, hannity called out glenn beck and other trump skeptics saying they're going to blame you if trump is elected. there is a giaskiz m. is this the new normal? and what's going to happen after is election. is there a fracturing going on in conservative media circles right now? >> oh, there's been a fracturing that has been going on for the last probably 8 to 12 months, i don't think that the left could

have planned a better candidate to blow up the right than donald trump. >> is that what we saw this week between you and sean hannity. i wanted to play a little bit of the sound, sean hannity being criticized on his radio show. >> glenn beck, it's a holy war for him at this point, he's off the rails attacking me every stay, blaming me to trump. no, i was fair to everybody, glenn, whether you want to admit it or not. i know i was fair, my conscience is clear. >> i'm not on some holy war against sean hannity and i don't blame him, i blame donald trump for being the worst candidate for either party, the country has ever seen. if donald trump loses, it's going to be trump's fault.

if donald trump wins, it will be donald trump's fault. >> i had a question from a twitter follower. it says what was the defining moment for you of your no-trump position? >> i don't think there's been a defining moment. i mean i laughed when he -- i didn't take him seriously when he said he was going to run for president. i was on the air when he announced it and we played it and we laughed at it because we didn't think it was serious, we thought it was a publicity stunt. >> do you think that might have given him more fuel for his rise. >> your job is to look at the media, look what the media did, instead of taking him seriously from the very beginning and actually holding him responsible for some of the things that he said, a lot of people just looked at hill as a circus show and this will drive up nib numb

and he's goings to burning himself out, and this was a huge mistake. by last august, we were taking him very seriously, still thought he would blow himself up, but i don't think so, it's not trump, it's us, what is it about us, this one i write about in my book, liars, what is it that makes us buy into these lies that we all know are lies. why are we buying them? what is it? and, you know, one of the things that you can see right here is, well, he's better than she is, or she's better than he is. okay, well, they're both bad, they both stink on ice. what? >> talking about what happens after election day, i know you look to trump to launch a television network if he loses. what have you learned about launching a network like that?

>> that this is a lot harder than you think. there's a reason why everybody hasn't done it. and that playing to your little crowd can make you a lot of money but not -- not have you able to really influence things, except in your little crowd. you need to partner with people. if you just want to use your own people up. then the over the top, ott, is the greatest thing that donald trump will be fantastic at it. because you can just keep juicing those people up and saying crazier and crazier things and they'll just keep paying you money and you'll make $12 million a year. >> just to tell our viewers, a

net work style streaming service. but then you tried to get on cable, just like cnn's on cable, did you do that to reach a broader audience? >> if smoke signals were a possibility of the future, i would be on smoke signals and i don't think that donald trump will be competitive in any real sense of the world, where he will be competitive, is in the world of the alt-right, and that makes it to me extraordinarily frightening, because it becomes not a broadcast, but a very narrow cast, and you keep feeding people those same kinds of things. >> he would be feeding them the truth, what the media doesn't tell them. >> that is the problem, i mean for a long time. our slogan was the trilt r truth lives here. and we wrestled with that at the

time and we still do, you know, we have talked a lot about maybe we should facts live here. it's this idea that no one is giving you the truth except me. that i think is problematic. because quite honestly. the best coverage of the campaign and all the athrough. when it came to republicans, you didn't have a horse in the race. because you didn't have a horse in the race, so you just praenlt presented the facts the way they

were. and you have to understand that it's good for people to see the other view and not bash the other point of view. listen to it. and then know their side, know your side, know somebody else's side. listen to each other, i think is becoming more and more important. >> i could not have said it better, glenn, thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you. >> we posted even more from our beck interview online at cnnmoney.com, up next, we're going to the front lines to battleground swing states to find out how two local newspapers are being courted by the candidates. hey america, still not sure whether to stay or go on that business trip? ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ this fall at choice hotels, the more you go the better! now earn a free night when you stay with us just two times.

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ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. reporters love these daily developments. but as recovering these battles. we have to put the polls in proper perspective.

let's look at cnn's latest electoral content. right now cnn's map has clinton with 273 electoral votes. those are from states that are either solid lly blue or leadin blue. even from states that are sol solidly red or leaning red. it's just a snapshot of the moment, of the prediction. whenever it does happen, it's likely to take place in one of the five states you see shaded back here on the map, shaded yellow on the map. true battleground states, florida, north carolina and ohio, iowa and nevada. so this morning, we want to find out how the race is being covered by the local papers in the trenches. joining me or evidence. the editor for the cincinnati inquirer in ohio. i know those candidates have

been all over your states. do you get a chance to look into the runging mates that are witnessing florida. we get access to both candidates, we have gotten access to donald trump, he has a previous relationship with the newspaper, given his part-time status as a florida resident, and also that he owns that golf resouth right around the corner. to we have gone one-on-one with him. >> what about you? what about in ohio? are the candidates accessible, or are you having the same problems national media outlets are having? >> exactly the same, that the national media outlets are happening. we did get an interview with trump recently when he was here for a campaign rally, and it was right when the whole kerfuffle

because it was the topic of the moment. we have invited them to meet with our editorial boards, so far no luck. they were both in cincinnati last week, both spoke back to back or one day after the other, and we still haven't had a chance to sit down with them. we hope they do. >> what's the difference between this year and 2008 or 2012. what it's different about the race, or what's being covered by local outlets. the volume of people calling and yelling at us literally about our coverage is greater than its ever been. i have never seen quite anything like this, and i have lived in really red places and really blue places. i have never seen an electrion around this. >> that feedback you're getting, is sit from both sides, the same amount, or trump such porters are calling moror clinton supporters are calling mow. >> this this case, i have had experiences in the past when it's been 50/50, when you're an

editor, you have been called everything from a fascist to a communist. in this case, it's much more the trump people in this particular instance. >> and how about you at the miami herald, are you finding the same kind of audience feedback? >> we find that the community is polarized and that's a direct result of how this campaign has been waged. i think it's a little less because of the demographics of, you know, of our community. which tends to be a little bit heavier democratic and independent, but among, you know, like republicans and some conservatives, we certainly have heard displeasure. >> before i go, any feedback of what the national media ask saying, mindy, we start with you, we look at the current polls in florida, and it looks like clinton has a serious lead. what does the national press

miss when it comes to florida? >> when it comes to florida as this mon -- you've got the panhandle, north florida area, really behave like the south, you have southwest florida which is like the midwest and in orlando, the i-4 corridor is really swings both ways and so i think it would be a mistake to really cast florida for anyone right now. we think it's within the margin of error right now between both canning dat candidates. >> what does the national press not understand about ohio? >> well, i think that, like in florida, the stereotypes get played out, cleveland is very democrat, of course, southern ho hoo, eastern ohio, more rural,

tends to be tilting more towards the republicans. who's interesting about ohio is there are all these different economies in the state, all these different counties, just here in cincinnati, cincinnati is a blue city, the leadership in cincinnati is democrat. but all around us, including across the river in kentucky, but all around us are heavily red areas, after all, john boehner comes from north of cincinnati, and i don't think even with everything that happened in congress, anybody's going to accuse speaker boehner of being a liberal. so it's a very, very complicated place, and because of the changing voting patterns this year, i think it's even harder to predict than it has been in the past. so it's very hard to report on it. there's some amazing and interesting things with donald trump going on all the time in ho h b ohio. >> do your staff get any time off between now and election day? >> not much.

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welcome back. picture yourself on the presidential debate stage. what would you ask hillary clinton and donald trump? lester holt is figuring that out this weekend. he'll be the moderator of the first of three presidential debates. what a year holt has had. 18 months ago, he was the weekend anchor of "nbc nightly news." this will be a huge opportunity

for him. the first debate is 22 days from today, september 26th, and the second debate will be led by anderson cooper and there will be questions from social media. the third and final debate will be moderated by fox news anchor chris wallace. that's on october 19th in nevada. there's one vice presidential debate on october 4th moderated by elaine keyano. there were many well-qualified journalists to choose from and all five of these names i think make perfect sense. there is one anchor from each of the five biggest network cable channels. it is also sure to be the most scrutinized list ever.

let's face it, trump is going to be an especially tough candidate to moderate. trump and clinton together, may be criticized for doing it. i think it's fair to say this is the biggest assignment of these five anchors' careers, definitely in the biggest audience at a single time. you and i know the whole country will be watching on september 26th and for all of the debates after. it's up to the moderators on their own to come up with the questions. some people don't know this but the commission says it has no input on the questions, nor do the campaigns. so holt and wallace and cooper and keyano will have a very busy few weeks. when is the last time you saw four documentaries? cnn is taking an in-depth look at the life and times of

clinton. >> i accept your nomination. >> for the presidency of the united states. >> we are stronger together. >> i love you. we will make america great again. >> one blockbuster night. clinton has been called the most famous person no one knows. >> i never understood that. she never forgets who she's fighting for and fighting first and foremost and no one has more energy than him. >> find what it is that you're passionate about and pursue it with your full heart. >> their stories and hillary clinton at 8:00 and donald trump at 10:00. cnn, labor day. starts? 11 hours. oh. well, i'm heading back to my room.

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that's all for this televised portion of "reliable sources." stay tuned for "state of the union." outreach meets outrage. donald trump greeted by protesters as he visits a black church in detroit. >> the african-american faith community has been one of god's greatest gifts to america. >> can he make headway with minority voters? plus, meet the new trump, same as the old trump? trump follows his diplomatic