driving this race rightly and wrongly. and we have a look at what happened when hillary clinton took questions from the press this weekend. >> okay. this morning we have this new cnn national poll and it shows the race is as tight as possible. we are nine weeks away from election day, but early voting begins in 17 days for some folks. the first showdown between trump and clinton, it's 20 days away. that of course will be their first debate. so we have all of the political headlines covered for you beginning with the breaking news. >> so our new cnn/orc poll shows a statistical dead heat. in fact, trump has a slim lead on hillary clinton. clinton's post convention bounce gone. some headlines, my friend. >> good morning, chris. let's get to the four-way race we're showing basically a margin of error race.

trump with a two-point lead, 45%, clinton at 43%. gary johnson at 7 and jill stine the green candidate at 7. rerks this is a national poll right now. let's look at what is underneath those numbers. look at independent. donald trump has a 20-point lead. 49% to 29%. remember, mitt romney won independents in 2012 by about five points and still lost the election, but a 20-point gap is huge and that's work that hillary clinton has to do. take a look at women. this is one of the most fascinating findings in the poll. hillary clinton is winning woman overall by about 15 points. look how single women and married women differ. donald trump has about a 17-point lead among married women. hillary clinton 53 point lead among single women. difference in marital status dictates where your vote is

right now. another key factor is enthusiasm. look at now 46% of the voters are telling us they are extremely or very enthusiastic versus 57% said at this time in 201260% '08. 64% in '04. this may raise questions about possible turnout. this is key. 58% of trump voters say they are extremely or very enthusiastic about voting. 46% of clinton voters say that the clinton camp is going to want to boost that if they're going to hit the kind of turn out projections they're looking to have. finally, let's take a look at the issues that are driving this race. on the economy, donald trump is walloping hillary clinton by 15 points. it's been a strong suit of him for much of the campaign. 15 points is a pretty wide gap on the number one issue for voters. he has a six-point lead on terrorism. immigration, big topic in the last week, it's about a draw,

49% clinton, 47% trump and on foreign policy, this is hillary clinton's strong suit, 16-point lead on who would better handle foreign policy. this race now is returning to sort of where it was prior to the conventions, which is basically a margin of error race, alisyn. >> thanks so much for breaking it all down for us, david. the fact that the convention bump has evaporated. we were expecting that. there you see it in print. then the enthusiasm dip. it's the lowest enthusiastic voter base since 2004, at least. >> interesting that even when they asked that question, it was are you enthusiastic about voting, not about trump or about clinton. what if they asked it that way, those numbers may bell even lower. >> hillary clinton and donald trump mixing things up in ohio. trump using retail politics and once again trying to explain his immigration plan. clinton answering questions from

the press for the first time in a long time. we have the battleground blitz. give us the headlines. >> both candidates inviting the press on to their planes. first time for both candidates. you talked about the post-labor day sprint, that manes battleground state after battleground state and ohio was ground zero yesterday. donald trump, hillary clinton and their running mates all making stops in the states. in fact, take a look at this picture. their planes just cross the tarmac from one another. something you'll see a lot if you live in ohio, live in florida, live in north carolina, you're going to see tv ads. you're going to see web ads and you're likely going to see the candidates also. as you noted, the big question for donald trump is still on immigration policy. we're a week from the major immigration speech and there's still a key issue that no one can figure out, primarily is the possibility of legal status for undocumented immigrants something trump is willing to consider? this is what he said yesterday --

>> to become a citizen you're going to have to go out and come back in. [ inaudible question ] >> we're going to make that decision into the future. >> now, guys f you go back to that arizona speech, donald trump was explicit. there was no pathway to citizenship and there was no pathway to legal status. ever since then, trump and his advisers really muddying the waters on that. hillary clinton also in ohio yesterday and she's making a series of allegations, both on russian involvement in the election and donald trump's ties to the russians. take a listen. >> never had a foreign adversarial power be already involved in our electoral process with the dnc hacks.

we've never had a nominee of one of our major parties urging the russians to hack more. >> and clinton advisers say those attacks are going to continue in earnest going forward, again, trying to paint trump as temperamentally unfit. ohio yesterday, battleground states again, north carolina and florida among them. expect that every single day going forward to november. chris? >> appreciate it. so, with this post-labor day push here to the finish, we see what the battleground is the state of play. with trump, i don't know if he can do the job. and with clinton it's, i don't know if i'll trust what she'll do in the job. we see that reflected in the new poll. voters find donald trump more honest and trustworthy than the former secretary of state. now, one of the clinton's major supporters, vice president joe biden is talking about what he calls the truth about clinton's trust issues as the vice president joined tim kaine on

the campaign trail. both sat down with cnn senior washington correspondent jeff zelny. he joins us now. good opportunity. >> good morning, guys. seeing joe biden back on the road for his final campaign, he said he and the president are all in for this and they want to keep the white house in democratic hands, of course. he is trying to improve on one of hillary clinton's biggest weaknesses. the white, working class voters. he and tim kaine who wants to succeed him in that job were in pittsburgh yesterday when we caught up with them. biden had plunt advice for secretary clinton. >> hillary knows it's a problem. and she's trying to figure out how to remedy do it. talk about what you care about. talk about it with some passion. and people will see through it. but this is going to be -- you know it better than i do, jeff, this will be the most negative campaign in the history of modern politics, i think. and so my question is, is anybody going to be able to

breakthrough what has just, you know, sort of a notion -- that's why you hear her talking more about explicitly what it is she's going to do? how she's going to change things? >> we're making the case on issues. we feel like talking about our small business backgrounds to people that are looking -- people are looking for a ladder. they want to see there's a ladder they can climb. that's what hillary and i are talking about. at the end of the day that will pose a comparison that's very, very stark. >> that, of course, is their challenge making voters see those stark comparisons. as the vice president said, it's an open question of how much those issues will even breakthrough in this negative campaign where i think he rightly said some voters do indeed see this as a pox on both of your houses. >> they have their work cut out for them. >> no doubt, especially with the new poll this morning. >> absolutely. joe biden just spells it there in bidenesque style. >> no one does it better. >> thanks so much for that. so the woman known as the

first lady of the american conservative movement has died. activist and author phyllis famously led grass roots campaigns against communism, abortion and equal rights amendment through the conservative group she founded more than 40 years ago, the eagle forrum. most recently she endorsed donald trump for president. schlafly was 92 years old. >> another institution and amazing she leaves right in the middle of this race where at play so many issues that she dealt with. he made a vulgar threat towards the president of the united states. let's get more from michelle kaczynski traveling with the president live in laos. michelle? >> yeah. how do you overstate how bizarre this situation is? i mean, any world leader tries to put the best face on these kinds of meetings, especially in

this setting, even when there are glaring differences. now you have another world leader, the president of the philippines, on what would have been his first meeting with president obama, who is a treaty ally calling obama a son of a whore to reporters and promising to curse him if he brought up the vigilante killings of thousands of people just over the last few months during the philippines drug war. so listen to durtete's comments and how president obama responded in a press conference. >> who is he? i am a president of a sovereign state and we have long ceased to be a colony. i do not have any -- nobody but nobody. >> i just heard about some of this, but i have seen some of

those colorful statements in the past, and so clearly he is a colorful guy. >> white house of course cancelled that meeting and they told me today after president u duterte made those commens -- he apologized. his regrets were taken as an attack on president obama. it's tough to see how they could be taken otherwise. he wants to have a constructive meeting some time in the future. today here in laos, the president is trying to focus on this relationship, starting with a big commitment to try to remove some 80 million unexploded bombs of the more than 270 million cluster bombs that the u.s. dropped on laos during nine years of the vietnam war. those bombs continue to cause casualties to this day. tomorrow president obama will

meet with some of those victims. alisyn. >> michelle, thank you for that. it was an open question whether he would meet with the president of the philippines after those comments. it seems like that would have been awkward, so the president decided to cancel. >> that's one of those apologies that is not about being sorry for what you said. you're sorry for the consequence of what you said in losing the bomb. but michelle buttoned that up the right way. the unexploded ordnances is a huge issue in the philippines. >> we need to talk about the new cnn national poll, it has trump and clinton locked in a statistical dead heat, but the real story may be what's behind those numbers, and we show you that next on "new day." >> announcer: "new day," brought to you by -- 6/ soon, she'll be binge-studying. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade.

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donald trump and hillary clinton are locked in a statistical dead heat in the final stretch of the campaign. here is the proof -- c-nn's orc new national poll shows trump with actually a slight edge among likely voters.

many in the media were saying this race was all but over, not us, and now you know why. it is a new game with 63 days to go. let's bring in to discuss our political director david chal on, phillip bump and jeff zeleny. mr. chalion, i start with you, you laid out the numbers for us very well. i appreciate you unpacking the poll. how would you describe the state of play in this election? >> i would describe this as a margin of error race right now, that the sort of august convention bump for hillary clinton and the swirl of controversy around donald trump specifically coming out of the democratic convention with the khan controversy, the gold star family, that created a great august for hillary clinton. now it's returning to the tight race that quite frankly both campaigns predicted that it would be. >> let's dive into some of the numbers. phil, let's look at

independents. the all important voting block that both candidates need. independent voters he gets 49% to hillary clinton's 29% than the other candidates you see 16% and 6% that's a huge margin. >> yeah. not only is that a huge margin, it's a big change from the last poll at the end of july. these are brand new numbers, so it's hard to figure out exactly what made that sort of movement, but the fact that hillary clinton has lost so much support from independents, it's a big problem for her. the percentage of republicans say they're strongly behind donald trump has increased. republicans were soft coming out of the conventions. if she's going to lose independents and republicans strongly behind donald trump, that's bad news for her candidacy. >> they're dealing with a mood election. that is now proof positive in these numbers. we can look at it a few different ways. let's look at it for women. the presumption they'll be for hillary clinton and they're right. it depends on how you break down

the women. if you look at the difference between single and married, it tells you something, jeff. what does it tell you? >> it tells you that hillary clinton and the democratic candidate traditionally does much better than single women. it still has, a, an important there among some married women, some older women voters particularly in the swing states but shows that she has not yet sealed the deal. the nature of this historic candidacy has still not yet broken through. it's one of the frustrations to some supporters and advisers in the clinton campaign that no one is talking about this being an historic election. some women voters are not moved by the fact that she would be the first woman president. she has struggled with it herself. she does not want to make that the thrust of the candidacy. some voters are not inspired or excited by that. but excitement is the key here. the clinton campaign worried about complacency, worried about enthusiasm and you see why when

you look at these numbers inside the poll. >> let's talk about the honest and trustworthy numbers because obviously that plays into the narrative on both -- both candidates. look at this, who is more honest and trustworthy, david. donald trump gets 50% to hillary clinton's 35%. neither gets 15%. what does this mean going forward, david? >> well, this is a really interesting finding in the poll, alisyn, they has been closer negatively on this score, equally viewed through a negative prism on this by the voers. donald trump now opening up a gap there in a significant way. we should remember, of course, this poll was taken thursday through sunday and lot of the news regarding hillary clinton was about the fbi investigation, their report being released, the notes of her interview being released. that may have had an impact there, but clearly the clinton campaign knows -- look at how they've been dealing with it, that honest and trustworthy has been a problem for hillary clinton and one that she needs

to be sort of working on on a daily basis on this campaign. and what we're seeing here is that donald trump is now actually being able to turn that into a bit of an advantage for him. >> again, very often when we look inside the numbers you start looking at how things were asked. who is more honest and trustworthy? not is he or is she honest and trustworthy. that's where you get the big spike negative numbers. in a relative assessment, that's where this becomes a war of attrition. that's why the last heat will be about who is less bad. not a great proposition of the voter but certainly the state of play. the big issue seems to be immigration with trump. he just can't seem to get it right, the same way clinton can't seem to get it right with convincing people that she has trust. we have a mashup of his sound and evolution on this still after the big speech where he laid it all out, it's not clear. listen to this -- >> they're illegal immigrants. they have to go out. >> how do you do it in a practical way? you think you can round up 11

million people. >> we'll try to get them back the good ones. >> you'll have a deportation force and you'll do it humanely. >> are you going to send in officers a force of people into people's homes to get them out. >> we'll be giving notice. we'll say you have to go. we have at least 11 million people in this country that came in illegal legally. they will go out. they will come back -- some will come back the best through a process. they have to come back legally. >> yesterday he changed yesterday again. >> right. what was the flash point? the flash point wound up being, are you open to the suggestion that people who are here illegally, undocumented, may be able to change that status while they're here? and he said he was open to it. you can't be open to this and maintain the position that made him such a star in the primary? >> are we sure this is a mistake, though? there are a lot of polls out there. this is a snapshot. he has consolidated his

republican base, which she has in this poll, i'm not sure him offering a buffet of issues on immigration is such a bad thing electoral for him. i'm not sure he understands all the nuances of the this issue, boy, he has softened his edges on this for some voters. some of those married women voters and others here. i'm not sure this is as big of a mistake for him politically as it may see when we watch all those iterations. >> he said yesterday in terms of the deportation of undocumented immigrants, we're going to make that decision in the future. that okay for voters? >> we tend to overestimate voters are particularly concerned about the nuances of policy. it's worth noting that in this poll hillary clinton actually matches donald trump on immigration, where she doesn't on some of his other issues. i don't think it's a big strong issue for him in the way that he thinks it is. this is a poll of likely voters as opposed to registered voters. hillary clinton seen better on

immigration. i'm not sure that talking about immigration really does him a lot of good. >> hillary clinton has beening to dogged by the press really more by the trump campaign for not giving a press conference. he opened it up. she got some questions from the media. what did you make of it? >> i think she was trying to lamp that boil being told there's a certain number of days a clock running since her last press conference. she got her plane and wanted to be able to get in front of press and take some questions so that that story line can die. but listen, i think that if you look at what she was talking to the press about, i think it's a lot of the issues quite frankly that we're talking about in this poll, the targets that she's trying to make. the issues she's grappling with on her honest and trustworthiness, all of that was very much present in the questions that reporters were asking. >> she took 12 questions from the reporters on her press plane. doesn't that count as a press conference or no? >> it does in my book. we get caught up in press conference -- yes, she took

questions. now, if that's the only time she does it for the next month we'll be raising this again. >> we know why. we know what she's doing. she has an opponent who the more oxygen you give him the more he turns it into a flame. that's why she's doing it. >> but the poll numbers don't seem to suggest that it's hurting him. that in other words, if her strategy was to step back and to let him hoisted on his own, not working. >> depends. remember, this is a mood election. and she could be in a big hole against somebody who actually was capturing the enthusiasm of the american people. >> sure. >> hillary clinton is happy to have this be a closer race as november rolls around. she wants her voters to feel like i need to go out and stop donald trump. if she's up by ten -- >> she got her wish. >> panel, great to talk to all of you. >> so with hillary clinton's convention bounce all but gone this morning, this morning cnn is asking two of her top surrogates the tough questions -- >> some working class voters still have not sold on hillary clinton. why do you think that is?

>> that was our own jeff zeleny right there. >> he is all of us. >> vice president joe biden and tim kaine on the record about the challenges facing hillary clinton. plus, what they think of the clinton foundation controversy. that's next.

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so now i'm not being perky, telling you that drivers that switch to progressive save an average of $548! whoo! i mean, whoo. all right. the post-labor day push in the presidential election. the challenge for hillary clinton now clear, convince people you be trusted. find a way to explain away controversies that dog her like suggestions about the clinton foundation. what are the answers? vice president joe biden may know. he is on the campaign trail with clinton's running mate, tim kaine. jeff zeleny put the questions to him. what was your take? >> chris to see joe biden out on really his final campaign year

as a vice president, he was enjoying the voters clearly. he knows this is a tough road ahead for democrats. it's why he, president obama and the entire democratic bench are coming out starting now. and he had some advice for hillary clinton. >> we are positioned in a way that the united states can lead the world in the 21st century here. no time to go back. and for donald trump to be elected president, he is already in the area of foreign policy, making america weaker, i can't fathom what he would do. the idea that he cares about the plight of middle class people is just inconsistent with everything he's done. so i think really it's a consequence. >> senator kaine, what's it like having this guy out on the campaign trail? i saw you watching him earlier as he was firing up the crowd. >> yeah. >> what does he do for some of these working class voters who may not be on your side yet and

why aren't they on your side yet? >> well, vice president biden is fwes we have in terms of making the connection with the middle class folks on the issues that they care about. i've been watching and learning for a long time. when he was in the ticket in '08 and virginia was a battleground state because they decided to invest when nobody had for a very long time, we campaigned together. in 2012 when i was running for the senate, vice president biden did the last rally for me the night before the election in virginia. and then in the senate, you know, we've worked together on issues from -- administration policy in latin america to foreign relations issues. i've been learning an awful lot from joe as a senator and vice president and as a friend, but in terms of making that case to people about can we create an economy that grows for everybody? we don't have a better person than joe biden. >> some working class voters still are not sold on hillary clinton? why do you think that is? her trustworthiness, honesty? what can she do to turn that

around? >> i think it's an incredibly confusing year, number one. i think a lot of the criticism of her has been veiled and nonspecific. i think what you're going to see now as we focus on what each of the candidates are going to do, i think you'll see that change. and i feel it. look, the one thing hillary understands, he understands the pain these people. she understands the people of actual folks out there who can't get their kid to school. and so he has no notion of it. and my advice to hullry always is, just open up. let them see your heart a little more. she has the heart. >> does she need to do more explaining on some of these controversies like e-mail and other things or should she stop explaining? >> well, i think she's -- my understanding is she is going to make a final judgment about what

they're going to do with the foundation and just lay it all out and this is what's going to happen from this point on, this is who i am, this is what we're going to do. >> has she not been clear enough? >> well, it's been a moving target. look, the whole notion of how foundations function is now all of a sudden put in play like it never was before. so, i'm absolutely confident she is doing it by the book and i think she is going to figure out what she is going to say crystal clear to the american people about what the relationship between the family and the foundation from this point forward. >> one of the things that's interesting, jeff, she made a commitment about the foundation activities about the election. we'll stop taking donations, the foundation will from certain groups and after the election additional commitment about president clinton stepping back. meanwhile, there's been a story about the trump foundation that they used charitable foundations

money in the trump foundation to make an illegal campaign contribution to a florida attorney general who is considering whether to sue trump u or not. after the $25,000 went to the florida ag, she didn't pursue the lawsuit. and then when the trump foundation filed their financial forms, they misrepresented it to hide the fact that they gave a political donation. so, while hillary is announcing these steps that will be taken to make sure that they do what's ethically right, we have this counter story of the trump foundation being fined by the irs for acting illegally in the foundation. >> so there we heard the vice president calling these foundation issues and e-mail issues a moving target here, but he is offering advice to hillary clinton to open up, show her heart a little more and she is not new at this campaigning clearly but that is still one of her challenges why a lot of those white working class voters simply haven't signed on to her like they may have with some other democrat. >> really interesting interview. thank you, jeff.

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president obama cancelling a meeting with the philippines president rodrigo due tearty after vulgar marks that duterte made. let's discuss with ambassador to nato nicklaus burns. thank you for being here. >> thank you, alisyn. >> let me read the comments that president duterte said about president obama. this was in response to president obama saying he wanted to bring up at their meeting the drug crisis and drug trade going on in the philippines. i'm not beholden to anybody. i do not have any master. except the filipino people, nobody but nobody. you must be respectful. do not throw questions and statements. son of a blank, i will swear at you at the forrum. after a comment like that, was there any question, beard burns, that president obama would cancel that meeting?

>> no question it was the right decision by president obama. you know, this was an offense against president obama personally but it was also answer offense against the office of the presidency of the united states and in international politics, there's a level of decor rum that nearly every leader matches and this is a very rare occurrence when another leader uses such crude and uncivilized language. he made the right decision. duterte sounded contrite this morning when asked about that. it was the right signal to send. he has to learn, you can't treat other leaders like that. >> let me read his contrition this morning where he does seem to have regret for those statements. the meeting between the united states and the philippines has been mutually agreed upon to moved to a later date. the immediate cause my strong comments to certain press questions that elicited concern and distress, we regret it came across as a personal attack on the u.s. president. basically, mr. ambassador, what they're saying now is that the

president meant that in reference to the reporter, he was directing those vulgar comments at the reporter, not at president obama. >> yeah. clearly not acceptable either. you can't blame the press for everything, right? i know you agree with that. >> i do. >> he is in a tough place. he's inexperienced. he is new to global leadership. he is showing it. the president sent the right signal. u.s./philippine relations are very strong. there's a common concern, chinese aggression against the philippines in the south china sea. it won't end the relationship, but president obama is a very experienced leader and hopefully president duterte will learn a little about how to be a polite world leader from president obama. >> in terms of the alliance between the philippines and the u.s., you think this is a minor hiccup. >> i do. this guy has been a problem. he also criticized very -- in very personal terms our ambassador of the philippines.

he has a track record of doing this. he even believe it or not cursed pope francis last year. he's clearly got a problem, but the relationship between the united states and philippines of long standing is very important to both countries and the philippines needs the united states right now protect it from chinese aggression. the chinese are assaulting filipino sovereignty in the east philippine sea. >> let's talk about another international issue and that is the hacking into the dnc computers and whether or not vladimir putin and the russians were behind it. hillary clinton addressed this yesterday with reporters. listen to what she said. >> we are facing a very serious concern. we've never had a foreign adversarial power be already involved in our electoral process with the dnc hacks. we've never had a nominee of one

of your major parties urging the russians to hack more. so i am grateful that this is being taken seriously. >> so, ambassador burns, if this really was the russians and vladimir putin -- let me say vladimir putin denies this. he said, listen, does it matter who hacked this data? the important thing is then cotent goichb the public. there's no need to distract the public's attention from the essence of the problem by raising minor issues connected to the search for who did it. but i want to tell you again, i don't know anything about it and on a state level, russia has never done this. >> first, i don't think we can trust vladimir putin obviously. he is formerly kgb. still kgb in his dna. for him to sap that the value here is that the public gets the information when he runs a dictatorship where there's no access to information, it's

laughable. and so secretary clinton is obviously right here that the united states has to pursue every avenue to understand what exactly the russians are doing. there was this hack of the democratic national committee. there are persistent rumors that the russians may be intent in interfering with our election. it's hard to believe they would go that far on a rational basis because that would sink our relationship to a new low, unacceptable cost to the russians from interfering with election in the united states, but putin for several years now is trying to diminish not only the power and influence of the united states but also the reputation of the united states. it seems farfetched, but with putin you've got to look at all the angles and have your eyes wide open in dealing with him. >> ambassador nicklaus burns, thanks so much for being on "new day." >> thank you, alisyn. >> chris. >> if you own apple stock. it could be a big day.

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what can we expect this year? here is the latest in iphone rumor roundup, but we make it an improved camera, new shade of black and water resistant phone but what could be the most controversial update yet is the rumor that the headphone jack could be completely removed. the company needs these updates to make a splash. apple's iphone sales fell for the first time ever this year. chris, i am certainly in the market for a new iphone. i dropped mine on the floor and cracked it. >> you know why, because gorilla glass is a joke. >> yes, it is. >> it is not gorilla glass. it's the weakest gorilla ever. >> i'm with that. >> hopefully they um prove that. up next, strong reaction from president obama's defending 49ers quarterback colin kaepernick's constitutional right to protest the national anthem. was the president in the wrong? or did he just say it the wrong way? we debate next. final days of te ford freedom sales event... and the deals just got better. ♪ i'm free to do what i want and have a good time. ♪

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hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move.

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so did the president say the right thing about the controversy surrounding 49er quarterback colin kaepernick? once again in silent protest of the national anthem, he says over issues of race in the u.s. here is what the president said about the situation -- >> he's exercising his constitutional right to make a statement. i think there's a long history of sports figures doing so. i don't doubt its sincerity based on what i heard. i think he cares about some

real, legitimate issues that have to be talked about. >> the issue has never been whether he has the right. obviously the first amendment allows it, but is it right for him to do what he is doing this way? that's the continuing controversy. let's discuss. cnn political commentator host of bet news, mark le mont hill and ben ferguson. ben, your take. >> well, two things here. i this i the president should look at colin and the entire aspect of what he's trying to do here before he comes out. colin kaepernick said something i do agree with. look, we have a presidential candidate running for office and she's deleted e-mails and got away with it and normal citizen as he put it would be in jail. so if he's standing up for that, hey, if the president is backing colin kaepernick's word on that one, i'm all about it. he also wore socks depicting police officers as pigs and wore those socks to protest the police describing them as pigs. when you're the president of the

united states of the america and you lend your name to support somebody's cause and what they're doing or you back them in the way the president did, knowing that he wore those socks, knowing that that was part of the controversy, it undermines yet again the police in this country and the president seems to do whatever he can to undermine them when someone else speaks out. you don't back a football player that's all over the place, one minute saying hillary clinton should be in jail and the next minute saying the police officers are pigs and refusing to stand during the national anthem. you have the right to not stand, but the president shouldn't back you up for that when you're the commander in chief of the united states of america. >> mark? >> first of all, i don't see those as competing claims. you can be critical of hillary clinton and critical of police. it's not all over the place. it's two different issues. second, barack obama didn't back colin kaepernick's wearing of any socks one way or another. what was specifically asked about in the press conference was colin kaepernick's refusal

to stand the national anthem. i'm not sure if the president knew about the socks. remember, he said i hntd been following this closely and he responded to the g20 he responded very specifically to that issue. if he knew about it, he certainly didn't respond to it. we may or may not agree with the president, but he certainly didn't speak to the socks. it's not fair to suggest that he did. also, the president didn't back colin kaepernick. in fact, what i heard, and was a little disappointed, just a little bit, was him not spo supporting one way or another. he has the right to do it. i'm sure his heart is in the right place. he was not taking a position on it at all. the kid has a right to do it and i don't think he's a bad kid. that's what the president was saying. i actually wish the president would come out stronger and say i do support colin kaepernick. i don't expect that from the leader of the american empire. >> the president knows about issues like that that are going on. he has no problem diving right into it. to imply that somehow, well,

maybe he didn't know about the socks or didn't know about colin kaepernick when you're the president of the united states of america, then don't back someone or give comments that seem to imply that what he's doing is okay when you're in charge of the united states of america. this is about standing up against somebody who calls the police pigs and wears literally on the field wears those socks. the president is a smart guy. he knows about colin kaepernick. if he didn't know about it then i'm sure his staff let him know about it. he knows sports than any president we ever had. to somehow say he didn't know the whole controversy is absurd. >> it's not what i said. >> but hold on a second, guys. let reframe where we are right now. everybody says that colin kaepernick has the right to do what he is doing. the first amendment is clear. it's about whether or not he is doing something that is productive and that is going to be respected by people.

there seems to be a division on that certainly there is on this show, but mark, what do we do with this situation? >> well, i think one we have to have the substantive conversation which is not does he have a right to do it but is this the right move? the president did not speak to that. the president quite deliberately did not speak to that. he does quite masterfully sometimes. he waxes eloquently but doesn't speak to the issue that's at the heart of the political stroers. i would love to hear him say the kid is coming from the right place. he has the right to do it. he has a good heart. he knows the issues and i agree with him. or i disagree with him. at least then we could have the conversation. i quite clearly stand with colin kaepernick. i agree with colin kaepernick. i think his position is right, informed and principled. that is the kind of response i would love to hear the president have. if the president doesn't agree with me or colin kaepernick, that's cool, too. then just say it.

>> ben, final point. >> when you say his idea is well thought out. would you say that about him saying that hillary clinton is in jail, would you say that when he wore a fidel castro shirt claiming that african-americans are oppressed in this country. would you say he is well informed about his socks -- >> is this rhetorical? >> no. >> i would say that. i thought it was a question. >> the president should not come out and back someone that has been in this way because when you lend your voice or somehow imply that this is okay, everybody knows you have a right to do it, but when you're the president you don't help advocate for an individual like this that has said things that are this extreme all over the place you don't comment on it. the president can say i don't comment. i don't know. >> all right. let's leave the debate there for now. it will be nice to see what colin kaepernick does to advance his beliefs about this issue. let's see what else he does to try to make a positive difference. gentlemen, thank you very much for having the debate. appreciate it. >> thanks. the's