hillary clinton at the same time and she goes up against him in terms of policy, in terms of concrete proposals, that's going to be a huge challenge for him. i think that's what we saw last night. >> that was a little preview for what we'll see. dylan, brian, thank you. >> last night was the easy version. they didn't have to be there at the same time. one thing is to be sure, last night was a big night for you. you got to see things about these two candidates that you have not seen before. there are moments from last night that are going to matter all the way through to election day. so let's get right to it. barack obama did not follow what our experts said to do. >> i don't think the guy is qualified to be president of the united states. >> we're going to defeat isis without committing ground troops. >> i have great judgment. >> we've got to do it with air power. we've got to do it with much more support for the arabs and

the curds wkurds who will fight ground. >> it was a mistake to have a personal account. >> e-mail exchange between colin powell and hillary clinton. >> i valued his advice. >> powell advised secretary clinton on how to skirt security rules and bypass requirements to preserve federal records. >> i communicated about classified material on a wholly separate system. i took it very seriously. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning, everyone. welcome back to your new day. the president firing back at donald trump. this was just about an hour ago. president obama calling trump unqualified to be president. >> the president's comments come after a commander in chief forum last night that was a must see. don't worry, we have all the big moments for you now and what they're going to mean in this election. you had clinton and trump facing tough questions from people who deserved good answers. veterans and active duty troops

and their families. both candidates were often on the defensive, trying to prove themselves ready to serve. who did a better job? let's get to our coverage. we have cnn's sunlen serfaty. >> reporter: it was so fascinating last night to see both candidates appearing back to back at this national security forum and what turned into a small preview of how they would handle themselves at the fist debate, both trying to gain the upper hand on the big question, who is ready to be commander in chief. donald trump drumming up more controversy. >> the man has very strong control over a country. >> reporter: praising russian president vladimir putin while trashing president obama. >> he's been a leader far more than our president has been a leader. >> reporter: and attacking the performance of u.s. military generals, standing by his statement claiming he knows more about isis than the generals do. >> under the leadership of

barack obama and hillary clinton, the generals have been reduced to rubble. they have been reduced to a point where it's embarrassing for our country. >> reporter: but giving no details on his plan to defeat isis. >> i have a substantial chance of winning. if i win, i don't want to broadcast to the enemy exactly what my plan is. >> reporter: hillary clinton making clear her plan to fight isis will not include ground troops. >> we've got to do it with air power. we've got to do it with much more support for the arabs and the kurds who will fight on the ground against isis. we are not putting ground troops into iraq ever again, and we're not putting ground troops into syria. >> reporter: clinton getting grilled over her use of a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of state

and her vote to go to war with iraq. >> classified material has a header which says top secret, secret, confidential. nothing, and i will repeat this and this is verified in the report by the department of justice, none of the e-mails sent or received by me had such a header. i think that the decision to go to war in iraq was a mistake. >> reporter: later, trump repeating his false claim that he opposed the iraq war from the start. >> i've always said, shouldn't be there. >> are you for invading iraq? >> yeah, i guess so. you know, i wish it was -- i wish the first time it was done correctly. >> reporter: and declaring that the u.s. should have stolen oil from iraq. >> but if we're going to get out, take the oil. if we would have taken the oil,

you wouldn't have isis. used to be to the victor belong the spoils. >> reporter: and sparking outrage for defending his controversial 2013 tweet that suggests sexual assault in the military is the result of women serving alongside men. >> it is a correct tweet. there are many people who think that's absolutely correct. you have reported and the gentlemen can tell you, you have the report of rape and nobody gets prosecuted. there are no consequence. >> reporter: also drawing criticism, nbc news anchor matt lauer being accused of aggressively questioning clinton. >> i want to get to a lot of questions. >> reporter: and not fact checking trump's claims throughout the event. >> i was totally against the war in iraq. perhaps almost as bad was the way barack obama got out. that was a disaster. >> people talk about you and commander in chief and not just secretary clinton, but some of your republican opponents in the primary season and wonder about your temperament. >> reporter: and afterwards, both sides slammed the other over their performance.

the rnc chair specifically calling out clinton for, in his words, being angry and defensive the entire time, tweeting out that she had no smile and was uncomfortable, upset she was caught wrongly sending our secrets. the clinton campaign shooting right back, saying that's just what taking the office of the presidency seriously looks like. once again, you have both candidates trying to gain advantage over this big issue of who has the right temperament for this job. >> that was the big night, the first moment we've had, both of them answering the same questions. again, to a crowd that deserved good answers. everybody's weighing in. president obama was on an international stage and took the opportunity to criticize donald trump. after meeting with leaders of ten southeast asian nations in laos, the president was asked about trump's criticism of his foreign policy. the president made his strongest statement yet about the 2016 election. here it is.

>> i don't think the guy is qualified to be president of the united states. every time he speaks, i think that opinion is confirmed. i think the most important thing for the public and the press is to just listen to what he says and follow up and ask questions about what appear to be either contradictory or uninformed or or outright whacky ideas. there is this process that seems to take place over the course of the election season where somehow behavior that in normal times we would consider completely unacceptable and outrageous becomes normalized. people start thinking behavior and people start thinking we should be grading on a curve.

but i can tell you from the interactions that i've had over the last eight or nine days with foreign leaders, that this is serious business. you actually have to know what you're talking about, and you actually have to have done your homework. when you speak, it should actually reflect thought-out policy that you can implement. and i have confidence that if, in fact, people just listen to what he has to say and look at his track record or lack thereof, that they'll make a good decision. >> so that's some big news overnight. there's other news that's happened last night. hillary clinton's e-mail saga taking an interesting turn. an e-mail exchange between secretary clinton and her predecessor, colin powell, has been released. and it reveals the tips paul gave her on how to handle personal e-mail. let's bring in manu raju with

more. what does it stay? >> hey, alisyn. remember that first story about hillary clinton's e-mail use broke in march of 2015. it continues to be a major distraction for the democratic nominee's candidacy. but on the eve of more house oversight committee hearings into clinton's e-mail arrangements, democrat elijah cummings of maryland releasing an e-mail exchange intended to give clinton some political cover. >> i'm not going to relitigate in public my private conversations with him. >> reporter: private conversations no more. the ranking democrat on the house oversight committee releasing a surprising 2009 e-mail exchange between former secretary of state colin powell and hillary clinton. two days after clinton was sworn in as secretary of state, she wrote to powell, asking what the restrictions on his blackberry were, hoping to bring hers to the state department. powell, who used an older version of a smartphone during his tenure, responding, what i

did do was have a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line so i could communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the state department's servers. powell said the state department gave me all kind of nonsense about how they gave us signals and could be read by spies, et cetera, adding the real danger is that if it goes public, government or not, to do business it may become an official record and subject to the law. be very careful. i got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that capture the data. >> i have the utmost respect for secretary powell. i appreciated the time he took when i was preparing to become secretary and i valued his advice. >> there is evidence that they were extremely careless. >> reporter: the e-mail coming hours after fbi director james comey released a staff memo following fierce criticism of

his e-mail investigation and the decision not to recommend charges against clinton. comey writing that the case was not a cliff hanger, nor prosecutable, concluding that the critics are full of bologna. now, powell has yet to respond to cnn's request for comment, but a spokesperson has said powell used a secure computer for classified information and his correspondence was about unclassified information. as we know from james comey's testimony, that there were classified e-mails in clinton's exchanges. so already, chris, republicans saying it hardly exonerates her, especially since she's the one running for president. chris? >> manu raju, thank you very much. let's bring in republican congressman from wisconsin, sean duffy. good to have you on "new day" as always. >> good morning, chris. thanks for having me on. >> let's play some sound from last night and get your reaction. here's what donald trump had to

say about vladimir putin in comparing him to president of the united states favorably. >> if he says great things about me, i'm going to say great things about him. i've already said he's really very much of a leader. you can say, oh, isn't that a terrible thing. the man has very strong control over a country. now, it's a very different system, and i don't happen to like the system, but certainly in that system he's been a leader, far more than our president has been a leader. >> congressman, do you agree that vladimir putin is a better leader than the president of the united states? >> i'm not comparing the two of them. we have two different systems. we're a democracy. we elected barack obama, and that system and our leaders in that system are far better than the russian model. >> but the man you support for president, congressman, just said that he thinks that vladimir putin is a better leader than the president. do you agree with his answer? >> listen, no, i look at the systems. i think our system and our

leadership is better. but also, hillary clinton hit a reset button with russia absolutely failed. people misjudge situations all the time. but no, i look at this, i go our system is better, i'll take our president over any russian leader any day of the week. though i might disagree with obama, and i don't like putin, i like our system better. >> of course you do. what did you hear last night that gave you confidence in your decision to support donald trump as commander in chief? >> listen, i thought he came across presidential. i thought he looked good on the stage. so often we see him on the stump talking to 15,000 people. he gets animated and his voice goes up. i thought it was a nice setting where he was calm and took the questions from matt lauer and answered those questions. i think that was the biggest feat of the night, looking presidential on the stage with matt. >> you believe that donald trump has a secret plan to fight isis? >> yeah, i do. i think if you look at what he's

done in business, i don't think he wants to telegraph what he's going to do or how he's going to do it. i think he's seen the mistakes of barack obama telegraphing especially our plan and our exit from iraq and what that did in our ability to fully execute that plan. i don't think he wants to do that. >> it's easy to criticize the stat us can quo. we know that. you have to deal with it in government all the time. if the if he has a secret plan that's so good, why does he need this immediate rush to judgment by generals when he becomes president in 30 days to come up with a plan? >> well, i think any smart leader will say, listen, i've got a great idea. it happens in my office. i'm sure you do the same thing. as a leader, i know what i want to do. but i also bring my team around me. what do you think? is this the right strategy, the wrong strategy? let's compare ideas. any strong leader who has good ideas will use a really good and smart team to bounce those ideas off of and ask them to present

their own ideas so you get the best plan possible moving forward. that just makes sense. >> congressman, if i had a secret plan to make "new day" the best morning show ever and i was put in power to execute it, i wouldn't be having any conversations. >> but chris, you don't have to because you are the best morning show out there. >> oh, come on. you're the man. >> it's because of alisyn, not you. >> believe me, my mother says the same thing. all right. let me play you another moment from last night that goes to the fundamental character test between these two candidates. obviously hillary clinton had to deal with her e-mail stuff last night. the idea of being for or against the war came up last night and what that means. clinton said, i was for it, it was a mistake, i've learned from it, i can move on. trump doubled down on something that he has said all along, let's play it. >> i think the main thing is i have great judgment. i have good judgment. i know what's going on. i've called so many of the shots. i happened to hear hillary

clinton say that i was not against the war in iraq. i was totally against the war in iraq from -- you can look at "esquire" magazine from '04. you can look at before that. i was against the war in iraq because i said it's going to totally destabilize the middle east, which it has. it has absolutely been a disastrous war. >> now, congressman, as you know, i've gone at it with mr. trump over this issue before. get a lot of heat from his supporters. there is no proof that he has been able to provide or we've been able to find that he was against the war at the time that it was being debated or any time soon thereafter. should he be held to account for something that he cannot prove, even though it is politically convenient to say? >> well, first of all, i haven't done the great research on what he said and what he said it and what the context of it was. i think you have, and you've called him out for that. so have other networks. i think the american people will make a decision based on his judgment on the war.

but i think they'll also look at hillary, chris, and her judgment that she's made, not just on the iraq war that was addressed last night, not what i mentioned before, the reset button with russia, but she called assad a reformer. the failure that she's had in libya. those are all big issues that she has been involved in and has been an utter failure at. now, donald trump hasn't been on the foreign policy stage, not in the government arena, but in business the guy's made good decisions. he's been very successful, building out the trump empire in a way that shows strong leadership and good judgment that i think a lot of americans and especially the military men and women who have served under commanders in chief, they look at the two candidates and by points of almost 20%, they like donald trump more than hillary clinton. even if you go to iraq -- i'm sorry, if we go to isis, last night, not a lot of detailed plans coming from either of them.

this was not point-by-point strategy and plan on how we execute military strategy. but when hillary comes out on isis, which a lot of americans are concerned about, she has the same plan barack obama has. try to bomb them, get someone else's boots on the ground, and have a twitter war with isis to try to win. that strategy has failed us. i think americans want a different strategy because they want that threat not just away in the middle east, but they're tire the of isis inspiring radicals in our homeland and killing innocent american citizens. for both of them, it was, you know, it was a presidential night but details were slim from both sides. you know, can i give one push on matt lauer? i know everyone is saying is he was so hard on hillary. what i thought was he kept using quotes from donald trump. i would have loved if he would have used quotes from hillary clinton saying i turned over all my e-mails. she told you that. she told the congress that. and then we find out she didn't actually turn over all her

e-mails. there were 17,000 she didn't turn over that are work related. not only that, she's deleted all these other e-mails. those also would have been in the cone of that debate and prior statements that could have been used against her as well. >> except that in context, there was probably a reason they didn't. the fbi found those e-mails, reviewed those e-mails. not all of them were things that were new. in fact, very few were. and they made a determination that there was nothing there to prosecute on. that part of the equation has to be there as well. >> no, no, no, no. prosecution is different. she told us, i turned over all the e-mails to the state department. she didn't turn all the e-mails over to the state department. i know you do hot yoga, chris. i don't know if you use bleach to delete your hot yoga schedule. >> but those are two different issues. how she destroyed things is one issue, worthy of criticism -- >> taking a hammer to cell phones is consciousness of trying to destroy data.

your hot yoga schedule isn't deleted by you smashing your iphone. so all of these things are coming into play. it goes to this greater argument that in a very serious time in american history with our economy and foreign policy, we have two candidates that a lot of americans don't like. >> that's for sure. >> it's going to be an interesting election. i think it's going to be fascinating to see the two of them on the debate stage together where they're laying out their ideas and their strategy. donald trump is going to have to up his game on the plan front to go toe to toe with hillary clinton. >> well, certainly a precursor for what we'll see in the debates. congressman sean duffy, thanks for being on "new day." >> thanks, chris. >> alisyn? donald trump laid out his vision for how to help veterans. a democratic congressman who sits on the veterans affairs committee joins us with his reaction to the national security forum next.

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people are dying on line, waiting to get to see a doctor. they're waiting five days and six days. under a part of my plan, if they have that long wait, they walk outside, they go to the local doctor, they choose the doctor, they choose the hospital, whether it's public or private, they get themselves better. >> that was donald trump criticizing the department of veterans affairs over health care for vets. he proposes letting vets see local doctors outside of the government system. let's discuss this and more with u.s. congressman mark takano. congressman, good morning. >> good morning. >> what did you think of donald trump's plan to speed up healthcare for our vets? >> first of all, let's clarify that the va health care system already does engage with contract care, with providers in the community, so it's not new. but donald trump is proposing a

mass expansion of the choice program. most veteran service organizations oppose donald trump's plan as a huge step toward privatization, something which they oppose and hillary clinton clearly opposed last night. >> why oppose the privatization? donald trump got it a little bit wrong in making i had poie inhi night. our drew griffin at cnn did an investigation into the phoenix va. they wait five to six months in some cases to get in for health care. there are at least 40 vets who died while waiting. so why not try to speed it up with privatization? >> well, first of all, it wasn't really clear that those vets died because of the va wait times. the va wait times were inexcusable, and we held extensive hearings into that issue and attempted to address

the wait times. look, the veterans would face in the private sector care in many cases wait times as well. those wait times are not necessarily published by private sector health care organizations. the va is open and transparent to -- well, potentially transparent to public scrutiny because all of their activities are potentially discoverable by the public and the press. so the expansion of the choice program would drain nearly 40% of the va's resources away, leaving the va with the most complicated, most difficult, most expensive patients. donald trump's expansion of choice would cost nearly half a trillion dollars over the next several years. he doesn't explain how he'll pay for that. at the same time, he wants to raise military budget by $100 billion. >> let's talk about another issue that came up last night. that is the crisis of sexual

assault in the military. donald trump was asked about a controversial tweet that he sent out in 2013. let me read you that tweet. trump said then, 26,000 unreported sexual assaults in the military, only 238 convictions. what did these geniuses expect when they put men and women together? last night he was asked about that and he said he stood by that tweet. listen to this. >> it is a correct tweet. there are many people that think that's absolutely correct, and we need to have a strength -- >> so this should have been expected? does that mean the only way to fix it is to take women out of the military? >> by the way, since then, it's gotten worse. no, not to take them out, but something has to be happened. right now part of the problem is nobody gets prosecuted. you have reported and the gentlemen can tell you, you have the report of rape and nobody gets prosecuted. >> congressman, what's your response to what he thinks the problem is?

>> i think military sexual rape or assault is something that will be addressed through proper leadership and judgment. donald trump clearly doubled down on that tweet, the idea that sexual assault and rape are a natural, inevitable consequence of putting men and women together in a working context is simply absurd. donald trump should have rejected and repudiated what he said instead of doubling down on it. he showed further very little knowledge about our military justice system. we do have a justice system in place. there was a robust debate in congress about whether we should change it. we have been paying very close attention to this, but donald trump showed no preparation, no serious thinking about what he would do about this problem. he just sort of spouts off what he thinks is politically expedient to suit the moment. >> what about his claim that nobody gets prosecuted and that there's a much greater number of

accusations and assaults than there are prosecutions. >> it is indeed a problem that we have to deal with. as i said, there's been a robust debate within the armed services committee among both male and female members of congress. >> but what's the answer? >> well, the answer for the moment is to keep these prosecutions within the chain of military command. the military commanders have been successful in arguing to the policymakers to give them a chance to get it right, and they know very much that hanging over their heads like a sword is the possibility that will take it out of their hands and put it into a civilian court. so right now congress is giving the military the benefit of the doubt to go back and get it right. >> congressman mark takano, thank you very much. great to have you on "new day"

with your take on last night. >> thank you. >> let's get to chris. so the e-mails came up in this commander in chief forum last night, obviously talking about hillary clinton's use of the server. now there's a big piece of the puzzle you didn't hear about last night but you'll hear about on "new day" coming up. the e-mail from colin powell to hillary clinton. what did he say about what she should do and what she should avoid? a closer look at the messages next. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. get back to great. all computers on sale like this dell laptop. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great.

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so the house oversight committee released an e-mail exchange between hillary clinton and former secretary of state colin powell in the hopes of shedding light on what colin powell told hillary clinton to do about the use of personal e-mail. let's bring in david gregory, our cnn political analyst and host of the david gregory show podcast. hi. this answers a lot of questions, actually, and raises some new ones. colin powell had lately denied he was the person giving her the blue print for what to do about her personal e-mail. here was his denial. he said, her people have been trying to pin it on me. the truth is, she was using the private e-mail server for a year before i sent her a memo telling her what i did. turns out that's not true according to congressman elijah coup cummings, who released this e-mail exchange. two days into being secretary of state, she asked for his advice.

>> let me point out again that my wife is an attorney representing hillary clinton's aides. >> so you have the scoop. what's the real scoop? >> i don't actually have the real scoop. but in this case, i mean, it's hard for me to decipher how long, you know, based on this she was still using the private server. what is clear is she did reach out. she wanted to get information on how to handle her personal communications, and that's what he's counseling her on, which is to be careful about doing it, but here's a way i did it. he's definitely offering her that advice. >> here's some of the things he tells her. he's talking about blackberries, palm pilots. he says they gave out signals and could be read by spies, et cetera. that's what the state department was worried about. i had numerous meetings with them, the state department. they never satisfied me, and the n nsa, cia wouldn't back off. in other words, here he is expressing frustration with how tightly controlled they wanted his e-mail to be. >> that's right, which is -- so

in this case, hillary clinton is trying just as he was to find a way to have private communication that wouldn't trigger the law, that wouldn't become public record. again, still a matter of dispute as to whether, you know, he was ever using a private server. he was not. he was using a private telephone line, he says. >> a personal computer attached to a private telephone line, we now know. so he was sort of jerry rigging his own system as well. >> it's not clear to me whether, you know, state department rules -- well, we know state department rules did not allow for a private server. her knowledge of that is not 100% clear to me. >> here is where he talks about warning her about what could happen with her personal e-mails. colin powell tells her there is a real danger. if it is public you have a blackberry and it's a government one, and you're using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and subject to the law. be very careful. i got around it all by not

saying much and not using systems that captured the data. i mean, he's warning her that this will be a problem, and she, it sounds like, interpreted this to mean, okay, i'll set up my own system. >> look, what's not in dispute is this was not illegal, right. because the fbi has said there was nothing that was illegal that she did here and didn't recommend any charges. what's also not in dispute is this was really bad judgment on the part of hillary clinton, regardless of what advice she was getting from former secretary powell, and she's admitted that as well. what's also clear is that, you know, anybody who's a high government official is looking to have some form of private communication. that became even more complicated, even since 2008, and how we treat e-mail and the vulnerability of e-mail. >> what does this change? now that we know colin powell did try to say, hey, this is very dicey, and by the way, the state department is all up in your business and you should try to do something so they're not,

what does it change in terms of our perspective on how she happened ld this? >> i don't think it changes a lot. the political war over this, why she made a decision to delete thousands of e-mails, which was a mistake, why she handled this, the explanation of the accountability for this in such a poor manner. that's still going to be political grist for the mill. what's important is that there was nothing illegal about this. >> i mean, is that right? is nothing prosecutable the same as nothing illegal? the fact the fbi said you'll never win this case and we can't prosecute, that that was their recommendation, doesn't that mean something improper and probably legally suspect happened? >> no. in our system of justice, the fbi investigates, and if you don't recommend charges, then you don't charge because there's no case there. that's our system of justice. it is trying stri it is striking to me that the fbi director does something he would normally never do, which is why he decided not to

recommend charges and why loretta lynch is not standing up for judicial independence. whatever your politics, our jus sis testimony is such that if you don't decide to charge somebody, you don't talk about it. in this case, this is completely in the political environment. you have members of congress who apparently believe in judicial independence who are calling for this to be relitigated and reinvestigated, which again is not our system. >> david gregory, thanks so much. great to get your insight. let's get to chris. >> all right. thank you very much. governor mike pence is ready to release his tax returns. donald trump still refuses. does trump have something to hide? we're going to ask one of the few people who have actually seen trump's tax returns, next. ♪ it's peyton. ♪ it's peyton on sunday mornings. ♪ e-man! what up, peyt. you know i have directv nfl sunday ticket. i get every game, every sunday. all in hd. yeah. i know that. so you wanna come over? i'll make nachos! i can't right now man. i'm playing. oh yeah. alright. i'll pencil you in for tuesday.

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when the audit is complete, i'll release my returns. i have no problem with it. in the meantime, she has 33,000 el e -- e-mails she deleted. >> his campaign and surrogates came out quickly to say, no, he still has that audit. there's a lot of pressure on him to release his taxes for the obvious reasons. candidates have done this since richard nixon. is he going to release them? no. what does that mean and why might he be doing that? let's discuss that with two people who have unique perspective on this situation. we have executive editor at bloomberg view and author of "trump nation: the art of being the donald," timothy o'brien. also joining us, the co-author of trump's "the art of the deal:

the seminole work of donald trump," tony schwarz. good to have you both here. do you believe trump is trying to hide things and that's why he's not releasing his taxes? >> of course he is. i don't think he's going to release them because of that. i think the stuff that's in the returns, chris, is going to go right to some foundational myths that he's campaigned on. his success as a businessman, whether or not he's a generous philanthropist, the kinds of financial and business pressures he'd come under should he enter the oval office. we know the executive isn't behold on to a lot of the same complex interest laws as everyone else. he'd have a lot of latitude as president to wheel and deal from the oval office. i think the tax returns are a demonstrable record of his business wherewithal and his business operations. for those reasons, i don't think he'd want to make them public. >> as somebody who's tasked with figuring out how to translate what he thinks on to the page,

when donald trump says i'm under audit, nobody would give their taxes under audit, what he has to know or someone had to tell him, that's why nixon was under audit, then he'll say, i get audited all the time because i'm such a strong christian. that type of tactic on the taxes, where is that coming from this with man? >> an utter contempt for the truth. a belief that you can say anything and that that's acceptable, even if it's patently false. we saw that last night throughout the 30 minutes. trump will lie with impunity and reflexively, and he does it on the taxes, but he did it in five different ways last night. what he's done is he's made telling lies acceptable. >> you said this about when the idea of him being against the iraq war -- now, people who support him say, why do you harp on this so much? the war was wrong.

he's against the war. isn't that good enough? obviously the answer is no because when you're testing somebody as a potential leader, you want to know where their head was on key judgments. you weren't surprised. you said of course he'll keep doubling down and saying he's against it, even though there's no proof. where does the confidence come from in doubling down? >> i would actually describe it, chris, as an absence of conscience. so if he believes it serves him well to say he was against the war, you can show him a videotape of him saying i was actually for the war and he'll say, well, that actually, no, that didn't happen. in his own mind, vir chully believe it. >> and he's gotten away with this for decades. this is a pattern of behavior that he's deft in and has an unusual level of expertise because he's been able to lie or evade for decades without really being called out about it. in this election cycle, he's under a different kind of scrutiny. >> if you look at what every person who spends time with

trump, unless they're really at a point of such abuse and so much battering, which will eventually happen if you deal with him, if you're part of his group, every person knows that he's lying. every person who works for him knows who he is. mike pence is releasing his tax returns. it's an explicit statement that this is what you should do. what's happened is that we have a eliminated the idea -- we have focused on the notion that there's -- we can talk about hillary clinton in the same breath with donald trump. the truth is, we oughten to talk about mike pence or hillary clinton or ted cruz or jeb bush, joe biden, any of them are over here with hillary clinton, and donald trump is a man uniquely unqualified to be president. >> and you know it's bled into his staff. when katrina pearson recently said trump didn't flip-flop on immigration -- >> changed the words.

>> you know, the staff -- >> the burden of the spinmeister around a candidate is often a difficult one and can wind up being handcuffed by what the candidate says. that may be a unique challenge when it comes to trump. he says if she releases her e-mails, he'll release his taxes. there's a problem with that. she has no e-mails to release. she gave over everything she had. >> and he's been saying this for 18 months. this is not a new statement. when hillary clinton releases her e-mails, i'll release my tax returns. in the interim, he said on three or four different occasions, okay, it's the right thing to do, i will release my returns. then he hasn't. >> right. let me be very clear. donald trump will not release his taxes. he has defined it as too costly. if hillary were to in some way meet his challenge, he would find another way to say, well, i can't do it because of that. what he doesn't want to do, he's not going to do. what he believes to be true, even if it's not, he's going to say is true. this is why he's a unique

candidate for president of the united states. i mean, just the fact that last night he said so many complimentary things about vladimir putin ought to be a sign to his supporters that this is a man who wants to be a dictator. he wants to be able, like putin, to declare the equivalent of marshal law. we can't have that person be president, and we oughten to put -- >> tony, he says he just wants to be on good terms with someone to have a relationship and stop the obstructionism. but your point is well taken. i got to leave it there. appreciate your perspective on trump. you too, timothy o'brien. good to have you both here. alisyn? >> alisyn. polls show not trusting donald trump or hillary clinton. which candidate lies the most. keeping track of the truth in politics, that's next.

afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. i know more about isis then the apprgenerals do. age. john mccain, a war hero. he's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured ok. donald trump compared his sacrifices to the sacrifices of two parents who lost their son in war. how would you answer that father?

what sacrifice have you made for your country? i think i've made a lot of sacrifices, built great structures. i've had tremendous success, i think... those are sacrifices?

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truth enough. according to the fact checkers. we have a new cnn poll showing 50% of voters said donald trump -- yeah, 50 to 35. who is more honest and trustworthy. trump has the ativan takedvanta that doesn't mean either of them are trustworthy. what does it mean on this race overall? we have a great guest for it to weigh in on this and what has happened to date. we have the the deputy editor for politifact. katie sanders. katie, good to have you here. so i love the different ways that you reconcile voracity. i love the pants on fire index. what stood out to you last night about whose truthiness rose to the top? >> we fact checked several claims. you can find them on the website. we have a good wrap up what stood out, donald trump continued to say that he opposed the iraq war, and once again, we

rated this several times, we rated that false. he has not pointed to any evidence on the public record that shows he opposed the war before it started. he did start to oppose it while it was happening, and when it wasn't looking so good. but this continues to be not true. >> now -- >> on hillary clinton -- i'm sorry. >> go ahead. please. on hillary clinton's side? >> yeah, hillary clinton took some tough questions from matt lauer about her e-mails. but she made a really technical point about the classified markings and the e-mails she got from those -- or the e-mails that she didn't receive any with the classified header, if you will. so we checked a claim about that as well. >> what did you say? >> we found her wording was really careful, but leaving out part of the story, so we rated it mostly true. >> because you believe that her saying it didn't say classified on the top of it wasn't enough to explain the context of the decision she should have made? >> right, and she was still, you

know, james comey said she still received e-mails that were classified, they just didn't have the explicit marking and she should have known they were highly sensitive, even though they weren't marked in that way. >> the disparity, in the polls i just showed, 50% of people believe that trump is more truthful, more honest, whatever word you want to put on it than clinton. but what you have found with your pie charts that you do of truthiness, it shows something else. let's put them up. what have you found in terms of these two candidates and their relationship with the truth? >> well, the pattern is actually, like you said, pretty much the opposite. now, we have to stress that we don't fact check everything they say. we're not academics who look at a random sample of statements and try to figure out who was lying more. but of the statements we choose to fact check because we think they're interesting or

provocative, donald trump and hillary clinton have very different relationship. trump's statements are largely more inaccurate than clinton's. it is kind of like an inverse. clinton gets at many, about as many on the correct side as trump gets on the wrong side. >> is that because you cherry pick your choices and you overload on instances of what trump says and you go easy on clinton? >> no. that's not why the breakdown is that way. you know, i don't know what's going through their heads, but i think if you look at their background, trump is in his first election ever. he comes from entertainment background. in his book, he talks about harmless ex aaggeration. they're not as lawyerly as hillary clinton. we've been checking hillary clinton since she ran for president back in 2007-08.

we've always fact checked her statements, especially when they sound dubious like her recent comment about her e-mails. we choose what we fact check but we're not letting things go. we're covering them both aggressively. >> this election, we have never had two candidates with such low ratings when it comes to trust and honesty. why do you think that is? we use terms like post fact and post truth. what do those mean to you? what do you think our reality is today? >> i think a few things. when we did our analysis, we compared our fact checking of this election to 2008 and 2012. we weren't all that surprised. we knew it felt like things were getting more inaccurate. but we didn't know until we looked at the numbers. what we found was that in 2008, it was more honest than 2012.

2012, the statements were more honest than 2016. so do i think that means we're in a post truth era. i've heard that a lot. but i do think that fact checking still matters, and i think that it is really widespread. you're seeing a lot of, you know, news organizations that don't specialize in fact checking like we do. take that on, and we love seeing when journalists are calling out inaccuracies as quickly as they have been. i think that's the biggest service to voters, and that's what voters want. >> any news organization that is not in the business of fact checking is not a news organization. katie sanders, you are helpful to the process. it was good to have you on "new day." thank you very much. >> thank you. all right, this was a big night. we got to see the two candidates on the same stage at different times answering tough questions about national security. who came off more like a commander in chief. let's get to it. >> i don't think the guy is qualified to be president of the united states. >> under the leadership of

barack obama and hillary clinton, the generals have been reduced to rubble. >> we have to defeat isis. that is my highest counterterrorism goal. >> i have a substantial chance of winning. if i win, i don't want to broadcast to the enemy exactly what my plan is. >> this is a serious business. you have to know what you're talking about. >> i think i would have a very, very good relationship with putin. he has been a leader far more than our president has been a lead z leader. >> colin powell's e-mails have been released. >> it the utmost respect for colin powell. >> he used a personal computer hooked up to a private phone line. >> as i have said repeatedly, it was a mistake to have a personal account. >>announcer: this is "new day," with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. good morning, welcome to your "new day," it is thursday, september 8th, 8:00 in the east. hillary clinton, donald trump, facing tough questions from veterans, active duty troops,