that does it for us. hope you have great night. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts now. you're look at downtown manhattan and the tribute in light as the world prepares for the remembrance of 9/11. donald trump and hillary clinton battle who will keep us safe. i'm don lemon. trump speaking to conservatives in washington, saying this. >> just today it was announced that north korea performed its fifth nuclear test. it's fourth since hillary clinton became secretary of state. it's just one more massive failure from a failed secretary

of state. >> >> clinton after meeting with national security officials says this. >> i don't want to rehash everything my popponent has sai but no conversation would be complete unless we acknowledge that the candidate on the other side will do things that will make us less safe. >> meanwhile trump says this about clinton. >> she's being so protected. she could walk into this arena right now and shoot somebody and wouldn't be prosecuted. that's what has happened to our country. >> this from the man who once said he would shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and

not lose a vote even for donald trump, is this going too far? we're going to discuss that. let's go right now to juliette kayyem. joel dudedo and rooer ad mirl charles "chuck" williams who supports donald trump. as you were sitting here and i read this, juliette, you grimaced at hearing this, why? >> it's just a very weird thing to say that the other nominee can kill 20,000 or 30,000 people. weird is wrong. it's crazy. start using the word. >> it's a crazy thing to say, especially in the world where there's a lot of gun violence. sorry for the grimace. i don't have a poker face, hadn't heard it before. just got into the studio. >> saying in front of audience. going to discuss it later.

jim sciutto, i want to go to you now. for the last few days both candidates have been focused on proving they can keep the country safe. last night north korea tested a nuclear missile. how big of an issue is that for the next president? >> in a word, enormous. this is a prospect that successive administrations have tried to prevent, try ed to they've tried punishing north korea, rewarding north korea and everything has failed. now north korea is essentially a nuclear power. and the options on the table to try to change that, the possibility of a military strike, that would be an act of war, chance of sparking a war in asia, possibility of a military blockade, seen possibly as act of war. economic sanctions, they've been tried over the last several years and those haven't worked. alarming reality that we're facing right now, one that u.s. officials have been bracing themselves for and warning about for years now apparently a reality and the options to

change that reality, none of them really palatable. >> and he's been testing ballistic missile to test these weapons on. how close are they to getting a delivery official? >> the official view of u.s. intelligence is we have to assume they have the ability to do that. james apper tells me it's an untested capability because they haven't proven it but they've certainly been trying. we've seen they have the ability to launch short and medium range missiles. they're launching those every few weeks. in terms of intercontinental ballistic missiles, they've done a space shot. that's nothing to do with exploring the moon or going to mars. that's about developing an icbm. the own part of that they haven't proven is developing a reentry vehicle that could take a nuclear war head to the united states. but the u.s. intelligence says we have to assume they have that capability. >> i want to play something

donald trump said today about north korea. listen to this. >> just today it was announced that north korea performed its fifth nuclear test, its fourth since hillary clinton became secretary of state. it's just one more massive failure from a failed secretary of state. >> admiral, let look at the time line here. the first test was during the bush administration and secretary of state was condoleezza rice, the next was in 2009, hillary clinton was secretary of state and then the in 2013 and this year during secretary kerry's term. is it accurate to blame hillary clinton for these tests? >> >> partially, she was secretary of state. happened on her watch. there's something like 15 million people that live in seoul. if north korea were to attack be

-- we've done this exercise every year. if they attack would be tens of thousands of loss of life in seoul. chinese don't want to use yellow sea. it's an economic zone for us. you cannot operate in this area. we've been operating there for years. it was during secretary of state's term. klein chinese demanded we pull the ships out and akweensed. moved exercise to the sea of japan. once you give up those rights hard to get it back and was during hillary clinton's time. >> juliette kayyem, is that accurate? >> it's one piece of a complicated issue. it's very easy to say this is a problem. no one is denying it. the administration is saying it, the u.n. is saying it.

but what is the solution? the solutions are limited. they're probably limited to two different things, one is us doing a first strike, not nuclear but something militarily in north korea, lot of consequences for that. second is china, what we're going to need to do is to have china begin to take their support of north korea more seriously as a -- and their support of essentially propping up an economy that wouldn't otherwise be able to withstand the fact that they don't manufacture anything anymore and to take seriously this is now a threat not just to south korea but to the entire asian peninsula. that is not going to be solved by saying it's their fault. it's easy to say there's problems in the world. there's been problems in the world for a very long time. >> jill dougherty, you've been covering international -- go ahead, admiral. >> don, here is my biggest fear. we had a retired flag conference about a week ago. we often keep either a cruiser

or destroyer up there, usually it's a cruiser. it's hard to keep a ship there 24/7. we do have the capability to take out short range and medium range missiles. my fear is what if north korea accidentally -- they launch a weapon and it doesn't go where it supposed to go like the sea of japan where it lands in japan or south korea. they are not the most redictable or accurate. i really have a huge fear that one day they could launch a weapon and hit something accidentally. >> jill you've been -- >> i don't mean to interrupt, but the u.s. just decided with south korea to deploy the fab missile theater defense, which is designed to protect south korea from a launch for north korea. south korea has been pushing this for some time. they got what they wanted. that further antagonizes china at them and to juliette's point, it shows how complicated it is.

you put in a defensive weapon to protect your ally, south korea, and makes it more difficult to get china on board for measures to stop north korea. >> i started this question three times. so, jill, i will just say you have been covering international affairs for cnn for decade and so you know this reason well. what's your assessment of what's been said here so far? >> i think i would go with the idea that it's very complicated, that you move one piece, which sounds, as jim is just saying, sounds logical, sounds like a good idea but china is a key player when you're talking about north korea. so keeping china on board, keeping china putting pressure on north korea is extremely important. you have a lot of chess pieces right now on that board. so, again, a simplistic idea might sound really attractive but in the end it could complicate things very seriously.

>> this is what hillary clinton said today. hang on ad mirl, the u.s. needs to rethink its strategy and lean on china to rein in kim jong un. let's listen. >> we are not going to let anyone who is treaty partner of our be threatened and we're not going to let north korea pursue a nuclear weapon with the batistic missile capacity to deliver it toed united states territory. that is absolutely the bottom line. >> admiral, what's your response? >> right now the range they have is about 2,500 miles. they can reach japan and reach guam. i can remember people saying they might be able to reach hawaii. i don't think so. i heard some argue they could reach the west coast. i don't believe that either. i think your panelists will agree with this but i'm not sure if your audience really appreciates that dynamic between north korea, south korea and china and if you want, i'll go

into that for a moment. >> go ahead. >> okay. the reason china cares about this, they want a buffer. they don't want to see south korea -- there's some fear the south koreans and united states would want to invade north korea and there is no buffer. we're up against the chinese border. there's a fear on the part of chinese the north koreans if there were any kind of conflict, there would be just hordes of people that would pour into china that they'd have to take care of it's like having a bad child. sometimes it's hard to control. you have a pretty erratic leader in kim jong un. i'm sure the chinese want to help but they're having trouble controlling them. >> and people saying why do we keep talking about sanctions for

poor country? one of the reasons we're doing the sanctions is to ensure that if the country falls, a bunch of north korean leaders don't lead it with money. we're trying to say get rid of this leader and then we'll drop the sanctions. >> i have a question for jill dougherty when we come back because donald trump has been thinking that vladimir putin is saying that he is brilliant but does he have the translation wrong? we'll discuss that when we come right back. we'll be back. have conquered highways, mountains, and racetracks. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available traffic jam assist. ♪ nomy favorite parted adjustable base, is to be able to lift your legs up a little bit, and it feels like i'm just cradled. change your sleep, change your life... change to tempur-pedic.

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donald trump did an interview that aired on russian tv and what he said is causing plenty of controversiy i. jill you were saying the bureau chief in moscow, studied russians for decades. donald trump has been praising vladimir putin and saying he likes him. let's listen to him on that tonight. >> she talks about me, oh, donald trump likes putin and putin likes trump. honestly, i don't know the gentleman but you know what? he's been nice to me. if he's nice to me, that's fine. not going to make a bit of difference. if we don't get great deals for our country, nothing matters to me. it's all about getting great

deals. and i'll tell you this, if we got along with russia, that wouldn't be so bad, would it? that wouldn't be so bad. and if russia, which has a huge isis problem also wants to help us get rid of isis and wants to spend billions and billions of dollars along with us on getting rid of isis, i'm all for it, folks. >> so, jill, you think he's playing right into putin's hands? why? >> well, look, everybody wants better relations with russia ultimately, at least when it comes to working out things like syria and north korea, by the way. but the problem is how you get there. and the things that donald trump is saying, nato is obsolete, you know, we can work -- let's see.

nato is obsolete, we ought to, you know, not continue in the path that we're continuing and these things that kind of drive a wedge between the united states and its allies do play into putin's hand. when he says, for example, that putin is a strong leader and has high ratings, that also is very, you know, technically true but very naive explanation of what's going on inside russia. so when putin looks at this, it's easy for putin and russian media and their propaganda organs to exploit that play it right back and they don't even have to work hard to do it. >> you say he believes putin called him brilliant but that's a mistranslation. explain that. >> it is. in fact i was at this news conference quite a while ago during the primaries and

president putin used a russian and what it means it bright in the sense of bright lights, flashy >> colorful. >> colorful. essentially he said he's one colorful politician. that would be the right translation. but then it appeared on wires and other places as brilliant and, again, you can see there's a lost in translation moment. so that gets translated into donald trump is brilliant, smart and scary smart. now, i don't know why this hasn't gone away. it hasn't gone away. because it's not correct. >> maybe jim sciutto can explain. go, jim. >> here's the other thing. from a u.s. intelligence perspective, a u.s. defense perspective, these are the folks whose job it is to protect american national security. what russia does is not just

unpalatable, it is dangerous. you speak to the director ofs in intelligence, james clapper, director of the cia, brennan, you ask them what are the number one threats to u.s. national security they put russia and china at the top, above director clapper calls russia an existential threat to the u.s. because oftion nuclear power and its military moves in recent years. invading ukraine, annexing crimea, challenging america's nuclear sub force, putting planes, ships and submarines close not just to u.s. naval and military forces abroad, these fly-byes that weigh talk about and report on, but on the coast

of the united states. you speak to people in the security establishment, this is not just an uncomfortable or impolite issue, it is a dangerous issue when they look at russia. >> one quick question for juliette kayyem. well, maybe two. maybe as jill said, why won't this go away, because it sounds good, he can use it as rhetoric on the campaign trail. but does russia really have a big isis problem? >> the former soviet republics, people are being radicalized. if you think what's the issue with russia, isis does not come to mind. it is exactly the stuff that jim and jill were talking about, which is it has nuclear weapons, it's a strategic threat to us, it's a destabilizing impact in europe. let's not forget they're doing lots of cyber weirdness and madness and attacks here in the united states. so donald trump throws up isis

as if, if i just say ice it's okay because everybody's afraid of isis. but the meeting i was in with secretary clinton and isis is a complicated problem but at some point you just have to admit you can't just sort of throw up sort of words and say that's going to solve the problem. these are very complicated and distinct issues. >> admiral, are you comfortable with hearing so much praise fo vladimir putin lately, especially coming from donald trump? >> let me talk about this don because i think as important. first let's talk about the space program. if i'm not mistaken we have two astronauts up in space with russian astronauts and we are dependent on russia launching their recovery vehicle, their space shuttle to go up and get these americans and bring them back. i've done a lot of real estate deals. i think i understand donald trump a little bit on the real estate side. here's the premise of that. as long as you're talking, as long as there's a conversation, there's always a chance of a

solution. when the two parties finally decide i don't want to talk anymore, we'll never come to a conclusion, we'll never reach agreement, then the deal's dead. i think trump is thinking like a real estate man, as long as i have a conversation, i have a chance to work out something. isis, putin has had -- >> does that work in foreign policy with the president? >> i think it works everywhere. we're talking about human beings. putin is almost like a street fighter. i don't know what neighborhood you grew up in but if you're in an area and you've got a gang here and a gang over here and they each see each other as equals, nobody wants to take the other guy because i don't want to have him -- i don't want to lose and have him take all my turf, so i'm not going to attack him if he's not going to attack me. but once a sense weakness, i'll attack the other guy and frankly, i believe when president obama drew the red line in the sand and syria didn't act, six months after that day, russia went in to syria. i think russia saw weakness.

they rebuilt their whole port -- they only have one port outside the russia and that in syria. now they're a menace in the mediterranean. they have more access to indian and atlantic ocean. i think when he sees weakness, he acts. if he sees strength, he'll back off. >> i want juliet to respond. >> george bush looked into putin's eyes, this is a man i can communicate with. by the end of the bush administration -- so you can say he's my friend and therefore we're still communicating. you can say this guy's a problem who has to be managed. that's just a philosophy of diplomacy. if you think what does putin want in terms of the different choices that are before the u.s. population, does putin think he'd get away with more under a president trump or a president clinton. i think the answer is pretty clear. >> thank you. that was an amazing conversation. and admiral, to answer your question, the only gangs growing up on my street was our gang, the little rascals.

>> if i could add something if you have a minute. >> i don't but if you go quickly i will allow. >> harvard had a program inviting american generals and admirals and russian generals to an international program to try and develop relationships. i can tell you if you sit down with a russian at about 2:00 in the morning with vodka and a cuban cigar, you'd be amazed the stuff you'd begin to hear. there are some things we can agree to but they have some fears. if we had more time could get into what their fears are. >> i appreciate that. thank you, sir. thank you, everyone. join cnn for an exclusive interview on 9/11 this sunday morning at 9:00 and then again at noon eastern. when we come right back, donald trump has said a lot of shocking things but what he said about hillary clinton tonight may be going too far. we're going to discuss it next. hey, it's been crazy with school being back- so we're constantly going over our data limit. oh, well, now - all of our new plans come with no data overages.

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donald trump went off script in his florida rally tonight making this shocking charge about hillary clinton. >> she is being so protected. she could walk into this arena right now and shoot somebody with 20,000 people watching right smack in the middle of the heart and she wouldn't be prosecuted, okay? that's what's happened. that is what's happened to our country. >> let's discuss now.

boris epstein is here, senior adviser to the trump campaign. a trump supporter. ben jones and bob. i have my hands full. welcome. boris, why say this? >> it's hyperbole. says talking about the fact she's getting away with everything, loot at whitewater, lincoln bedroom, all the scandals and e-mails, information that came out last week. destroying blackberries with hammers. she's being protected. he's right. she should have been indicted. >> it sounds a lot like she -- van, did you want to say something? >> i'm happy to point out if she's being so protected, how do you know all this stuff? this stuff is reported on 24 hours a day.

you guys are ginning it up, who is protected here. the american people have made a judgment they'd rather have someone like her, who is flawed but at least is prepared than someone who is both flawed and unprepared to be president of the united states. >> to be fair, they haven't made any judgment. the election hasn't happened. donald trump is up in the poll, and he's up by 15% on truthfulness. if the american people are making a judgment, it's that she's not trustworthy. >> up by 15%. it sound like a big number but -- >> go ahead, bob. >> i'm in the polling business and you always shock me by coming up with a new number. where did you get that? >> cnn/orc. on trustworthiness. >> i hate to say this about our own poll but it not very good. >> cnn has been knocking its own poll all week. i love seeing it. >> i bet you do. >> doesn't matter what the polls say, but what the american people are saying. when you look at time and time again things that have happened to the clintons, especially secretary clinton, there's a narrative that seems

to suggest there's a different set of rules for the clintons. even colin kaepernick said the same thing. he said the football player said if anybody had done what she did as related to the e-mails, she would be in jail. he's not a political scholar or pollster, that's what american people feel. so what mr. trump was saying was in hyperbole that things just don't stick to her because there seems to be a different set of rules. >> you name me two public figures who have not been more investigated than the clintons? >> sure george w. bush and george h.w. bush. all republicans -- >> 26 investigations. >> indicted >> investigated and indicted are two different things. after bill clinton has a pow-wow with loretta lynch, all of a sudden hillary clinton is not indicted. the forum, anyone else who had done that would have been indicted and in jail. >> wait a minute. >> i have to get in here, what

was george bush and w. bush >> they've been vetted and investigated for -- >> what were they investigated for? >> they haven't done anything criminal but what were they investigated for? what's the investigation? >> look at their public lives. they've been on public display. >> there's no proof they have been investigated about anything. >> you have to commit a crime -- >> i understand that but you're saying -- you made the assessment they had been investigated. for what? >> the last two republican president, of course they haven't been because they didn't do anything criminal like hillary clinton has. they were vetted. hillary clinton has been vetted and she's been lying to the american people. >> to bob's point, yes, the clintons have been investigated quite considerably over their decades and decades of service. but the point is they have never had the same type of charges and convictions like any other regular american would have. that's the narrative that the rules don't apply to the clintons.

they seem to get away with almost anything. >> hang on. are they getting away with it or is it just that there's no evidence there to indict them? >> you saw the evidence. >> i'm just asking. >> the evidence is on its face. >> i got to get in here, don. listen, this is what we do. donald trump is a master of this. he throws out some crazy statement and then his surrogates come on and use the statement to basically smear and malign hillary clinton and raise all this stuff. what they never want to deal with is the fact that we have a candidate who is more interested in praising putin -- we no longer have a trump/pence ticket, you have a trump/putin ticket. you have a nuclear arms threat against this country and a leader who's manipulating a major candidate for office and they want to talk about whitewater. >> you should probably tell john kerry that because he just entered into an agreement with russia. the united states today entered into an agreement with russia on

a cease-fire in syria. if russia is so bad and terrible, you should tell president obama who you worked for, van, to not work with russia. just like fdr and jfk did, like nixon, reagan and on and on and on, the united states has worked with russia, which has been its strength for a long time. >> so we're pedigreed with a country is not the same as praising a dictator. reagan never praised soviet dictators. >> he worked with them. and issue. >> gorbachev as well. reagan and margaret thatcher praised gorbachev >> i want bob to have the last word. >> i would say, look, there were 28 hearings on benghazi and hillary clinton got through that and there was no way the committee could do anything. bill clinton was the second president of the united states.

impeached and laughed out ults senate because of the republican right-wing efforts. hillary clinton has been on the defensive every today in public life and you wonder why there was some trust problems >> she committed so many times. >> one at a time. >> you have to be careful before you say things like that. i think you're a decent guy but you should not say somebody commits a crime. >> she's not been -- >> hold on, hold on. this is something that you have to be clear about, okay, especially as a network. she has not been convicted of any crime. >> doesn't mean she didn't commit them. >> she's been accused -- >> doesn't mean >> oh, come on. >> boris, boris -- >> you sound like joe mccarthy now. >> i have to be accurate here as a journalist and cnn as a network. she has not been convicted of any crime. you cannot say she committed any -- >> you can say accused >> let me give you an example without bob yelling in my ear.

march second of 2015 the "new york times" ran a story that she had a home server. on march 3rd, there was a preservation letter, on march 4th there was a subpoena. >> boris, i understand that, boris, i understand that. when you can say someone has committed a crime is when they have been convicted -- >> that's incorrect. that's what a prosecutor would do. >> yes, it is, boris. it's called a fact. >> i'm a lawyer. >> just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean you're accurate. >> check the law books. >> anyways -- stand by, bob. >> i could make the statement that donald trump has committed a crime but i won't do it. >> can we stand by, for the sake of this network, hillary clinton has been accused of crimes, has not been convicted. it is not fair to say she has committed crimes. we will be right back. donald trump not the only one making controversial statements tonight.

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all right. we're back now. boris is here, paris, van and bob beckel. anyway, van, donald trump wasn't the only one making questionable statements tonight. listen to secretary clinton at a fund-raiser here in new york. >> to be grossly generalistic, you could put half of trump supporters into what i call the basket of deplorables. right?

the racist, sexists, homophobics, xenophobic, islamo phobic. you name it. but the other basket people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them. >> so donald trump made a statement about shooting people in the heart, right? so should she have made that statement, basket of deplorables, racist, sexist, van jones? >> i think she was trying to do something good but i think she bobbled it there. i don't think she should say half. there certainly are strains of people part of the trump movement, frustrated by strains of xenophobia, nationalism, some of the white nationalist organizations. i wouldn't say half. there are those elements. i think she was trying to say something that's actually good, which is that the legitimate concerns of a lot of people who have been let down by the

economy and have been let down by the government and have been let down by the elites have found expression both in the sanders campaign and in the trump campaign. i think it's important for the democrats to stop demonizing the entire trump movement and saying they're all bigots and deplorable but it's not much better to say half of them are. she's moving in the right direction but needs to more quickly. >> paris you don't think that's what she's saying? >> that's incredible spin there. there's no way anyone could listen to that sand not say that she was totally out of line. i think she owes me an apology, she owes boris an apology, the thousands if not millions of americans who are good hearted people who have a simple disagreement, they want to make america great for everyone by electing donald trump. we're not racist, we're not sexist. >> paris --

>> bob, go ahead. >> let me say on the other side donald trump says that hillary clinton and her supporters don't mind rapists and murderers coming in from mexico. of course we do and we're not for that. >> i didn't hear him say that. >> just a second. let me say something in defense of trump here. this may come as a surprise to you. but i think that when hillary clinton's campaign manager said that donald trump -- the question is whether he's a puppet of the russians, now that is going way over the line. that is wrong. i don't believe that for a second. and i think that we on our side and i think van made this point very well, we have to be very careful that we don't let this campaign get into things that are -- i mean, that kind of statement, that's treason you're talking about here. that's not -- it has no place in presidential politics. the last thing i'll say to boris is in your honor i went through 143 polls tonight and i got to

tell you one thing, you're right, this race is tightened and it's all hillary clinton backing down. donald trump in the state of ohio has 41, 41, 42, 41, 40, 39, 41, 42. >> that's a lot of numbers, bob. >> let him finish his point. >> but my point is if you go through ohio and pennsylvania and michigan, trump's numbers have not moved. he's hit a ceiling. she's come back and at 50 some percent negative, i'm not surprised she has. the real problem donald trump has you have to stop selectively picking out polls like cnn. >> hold on, that was cnn's poll, right? >> let him respond. >> that was cnn's poll right but here's the larger issue. the larger issue if you look at what's going on in this race, hillary clinton is absolutely losing momentum. that's why she's going unhinged

like today. the clintons start losing and -- let me finish, and they get angry. that's what happened in '08, that's why they became extremely racial about barack obama -- >> can you never have a civilized conversation on facts here? >> i'm talking. i don't understand what you're doing. bottom line is the clintons are upset, she's losing and she's frankly losing it while doing so. >> bob, you want to respond? >> i think that's a gross statement to make but leaving that aside, i admitted to you she's backing up. the key point here is that trump has not moved up at all. she has come back down. >> the cnn poll that came out on monday -- >> wait a second, boris. there was a 79,000 sample poll done by "the washington post." now, in texas there were 3,000 people polled. the margin of error was almost zero. she's tied with him. in texas -- >> are you saying she's going to win texas, bob? you know that's not going to

happen. >> i don't think she's going to win texas but. >> we're going to carry texas and win ohio and florida. >> no, you're not going to win ohio but leaving that aside, if you look at the polls -- >> that's going to have to be it. you guys will be back next hour and we'll continue our discussion. van jones, stick around. the firestorm over colin kaepernick's protest shows no signs of dying down. we're going to talk about it when we come back. ♪ so nice, so nice st. croix full of pure vibes. ♪ so nice, so nice. ♪ st. john a real paradise. this winter experience us virgin islands nice. book your trip at visitusvi.com before october 31st to receive your 6th night free, plus $600 in spending credits.

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nfl quarterback colin kaepernick's silent protest is spreading but so is the controversy around it. van jones is back with me. joining me now is ben ferguson, the host of "the ben ferguson show." the reaction to colin kaepernick's refusal to stand during the national anthem was very swift. people burned his jersey and at the same time, the jersey became the number one seller. >> i'm not surprised by this. obviously, there's a lot of people that are going to back him and support him. you've got the anniversary of 9/11 on sunday. there's other athletes jumping on this. on the day where america came

together after 9/11, is it appropriate for teams and some of these players to not honor the american flag and the men and women that have served this country? that's my thing. i also am really disappointed in the nfl. the nfl has rules for all of their players with what they can say, what they can wear, when they can have a tie on, they get fined for everything. celebrations, talking negatively about the commission per this they should have a rule if you want to play in the nfl, you honor the american flag. if you want to do whatever you want to do outside of that, that's fine. while you're on our field, we're going to honor america and our veterans. they should enforce that and they haven't. it's embarrassing. >> van, if you don't stand and you kneel, does that mean that you're not respectful of 9/11 and the troops and the country? >> i don't think so. part of the thing is we seem to be very interested in the symbols of patriotism, the symbols of love of country, but what about the substance of love of country? i think what you have to applaud

all these young athletes for is talking about the substance, of what are we doing, how are we falling short of being a more perfect union? are we really a country where we have liberty and justice for all already or is that an ongoing quest? it is a form of patriotism to dissent. in fact, that's one of the great things about the country is that we actually honor dissent. it's so interesting to me, in the same year where you have muhammad ali, who was the ultimate athlete dissenter, he didn't not just want to salute the flag, he refused to be inducted into the army in the middle of a war, and yet, years later, he's held up as a hero. i think we have to recognize patriotism in its many forms. frankly, when you look at what's going on in some of these communities, the fact that young athletes are raising this hue and cry, the patriotic response is to liston them, not to lecture them about how they should express their feelings.

>> ben, you take offense to that. do you think that there is some sort of contradiction there or some sort of hypocrisy when i think that you were a fan of the tea party, get out of government, get out of my business or political correctness? is this not a form of political correctness to say everyone should behave a certain way and everyone should stand up and do the same thing at the same time? >> let me be clear. i have no problem with any players on their own time doing and saying what they want do. if they want to go out and join black lives matter, more power to them. but when you're on the football field and you're in a situation where there's people that are there on the high notes of this country to enjoy a football game in america and in that moment it's very simple, we're honoring those who have fallen, those who fight and defend this country, those that protect those football players and protect those stadiums and especially on the anniversary of 9/11. what i would say is just be

mindful of that. to these athletes, i think their message would go a lot farther if they realize this sunday on the anniversary of 9/11 is not the time to make yourself the center point of attention. it should be on those that have fought and died for this country, those that died on 9/11 that didn't wear a uniform, that died in the twin towers, it's not a time to bring up this type of controversy. i also say this. a lot of people do not have the right to go out and have protests when they're in their work uniform at their place of work. you were reprimanded for that. you do it on your own time. the nfl should be accountable for. they will fine guys for not wearing a tie, not showing up for a press conference, for celebrating in a unique way on the field. they should have rules if you're going to play in the nfl, you're going to honor the country. ar least at the bare minimum be respectful of this country. >> go ahead, van. >> i don't understand the relationship between playing a football game and being compelled and forced to express patriotism in a particular way.

i just don't understand. >> here's my thing. you're not being forced. you have the choice to not play. it's not force. you have the choice to play in the nfl or not play in the nfl. you can play anywhere you want to. >> but there's zero relationship between playing a game and being forced to express your patriotism in the way that you say is patriotic. part of the thing i think is interesting here is that the deep patriot -- dissent is not cheap patriotism. cheap patriotism is wearing a flag pin because you're going to get in trouble if you don't. it's deep patriotism to reflect on the short coming. saying listen, i'm saying up a signal we're not where we need to to be yet. >> van, personally, i have a lot of respect for you. you are someone that actively

protests and have been consistent throughout your career. i would say this is cheap protest by these players who have never been involved in any type of protest before they were the center of attention in an nfl game. if they want the respect, have the guts to do this on your own time. they're nowhere to be seen. that's called cheap protesting. i don't think much of this is really genuine. they haven't shown up for the protests you've even been a part of. i would have more respect if the players were out on street with you out in ferguson. >> i do have to go and you know i'll have you back. that old saying if a tree falls in the wood -- go if they do it on their own time -- >> they would be covered. they're players. >> still, they wouldn't have the attention. isn't that part of the theme is to get the attention soing that they can make a difference. this happens to be their particular platform. regardless whether you agree with them or not, they may

actually take the fall for doing this and that's part of being an american. you can do what you want but you also take the criticism and you have to suffer the circumstances. what's wrong with that? >> i would say show me a picture of colin kaepernick, show me a picture of the guy for the broncos last night that -- a picture of them actually using this as a plateau for another platform to do it outside that stadium. they're nowhere to be found. >> thank you. i'm way over. thank you guys. i appreciate it. we'll be back. we'll be right back. inge-watchi. soon, she'll be binge-studying. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. today, the only spanish words he knows are burrito and enchilada. soon, he'll take notes en espanol. get back to great with the right gear. from the place with the experts. office depot officemax. gear up for school.

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