today is september 11th, 2016. the 15th anniversary of the attacks on america that changed

so much in so many places. this is "gps." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, we will look back and evaluate the past and push forward to the future. leon panetta will talk about whether america is safer today. the new mayor of london and a practicing muslim will join me. what does he think it will take to stop young men from blowing themselves up. and i will be joined by a great panel. tom freedman will be discussing terror and the politics of terror. let's go to the panel to reflect

on all this. from washington, tom prooed oninuses and is the author of "thank you for being late." a professor at the london school of economics and author of the book of the week," isis a history." on set, the president and ceo of the think tank, new america and former director of policy planning for hillary clinton. and mary kissel is a member of the wall street journal's editorial board. annmarie, where were you on 9/11, 2001? >> my husband called to say a plane hit the tower. i turned on the television and then called my mother in virginia. i remember, kind of clinging to her over the phone as we watched

the plane hit the second tower and then the towers collapsed. then we heard the pentagon had been attacked and i thought they are going to attack every sector. they are attacking finance and wall street, the pentagon and there i was in cambridge, massachusetts. so, i went to get my children who were in day care about 15 minutes away, feeling like that sense that every part of america was under attack and all i could think was, you know, to hold my family as close as i could. even now, when it's that brilliant september blue and you love the fall and for me it's always that shadow of this is what it was like on september 11th. >> do you recall your reaction? i'm struck by how most americans didn't have any idea who might have done this and for those of

us who had been following al qaeda, it was obvious, they had done the call, they had done the embassy bombings. what was your reaction? when you saw it, did you think to yourself, this is al qaeda? >> fareed, i was in new york teaching a course on american foreign policy in the middle east. they said is this the beginning of world war iii? there was a great deal of confusion, anxiety, fear. few americans knew about al qaeda. some of us did not take it seriously, fareed. we estimated and basically thought al qaeda was a very small organization. it did not have large numbers. this particular sense, i was surprised that it was able to carry out such a spectacular number of attacks in the heart of america. >> mary, what was your thought

about what this meant? did you have just personal thoughts or did you start to have political thoughts? >> i was in london working in the bank on a trading sight the size of several football fields, hundreds of people in one room and remember looking up at the screen. we had the bbc coverage at the time, so we didn't see what everyone else in america saw. there was complete silence on the floor, if you can imagine 800-900 people falling silent. >> normally very noisy. >> normally very noisy on the trading floor. i was next to brits and the norwegian team was behind me. e recall the sense of deep horror, anger and shock. i think no one had conceived such an attack could be executed in the way it was.

i think there was an appreciation the world changed. there was a solidarity at that moment. remember the french and the big headlines were all americans now. in the years after that, many of the countries forgot that lesson, we forgot that lesson in the united states. the consequence of that, we are starting to see today. we'll talk about that in a moment. >> tom friedman, you were in tel aviv, correct? >> i was in tel aviv covering the palestinian conflict. i was in the office of the president of tel aviv university interviewing him when the news flashed on the television. that night, they closed the road and i was trapped there. i happened to know the chief of military intelligence and i contacted them and said i need to know everything you know about suicide bombing.

he wanted to talk to me as well. we met the next morning at 7:00 a.m. with the whole team. i got an insight from that dialogue that stayed with me through today and governed how i look at this problem. when i asked what they learned from the suicide bombing, the basic message was our intelligence is good, we have the west bank wired. we can get them before they blow up a pizza parlor or a disco club. they will get through unless the village says know. it takes a village. if the village says this is martyrdom, not murder, it will continue. if they say it's murder, it will stop. it's true then and just as true today. >> when you were in the state

department, how did you tackle the problem tom friedman is talking about, which is ultimately the only way this is going to stop is if you somehow get the atmosphere in some of these arab countries to be not just less permissive, but deeply condemnatory. saudi arabia does not wink and nod at jihadis because they are not doing it in saudi arabia. as long as they do it somewhere else it's okay. that's a tough problem for foreign policy to solve. >> right. we addressed it at the macro level with president obama eels new beginning with the muslim world, which was following in the footsteps of condi rice's proclamation there has to be a robust, civil society in arab society and that means arab governments loosening up.

that's a conflict between those governments we support. we attempted to say we need to talk to islamic groups in these societies even when their governments don't like it. strengthen ways they have connection to islamic extremism. that was before the arab spring, then came the arab spring. we tried to support that. it's like the french revolution, it takes decades to make that change. >> very messy. >> absolutely. we had to be working with those governments, knowing those governments are not only repressing their own people in ways that create support, but also, sometimes, working with those groups in ways we don't like. it's very hard to take one position or another. tom is right. in the end, you have to penetrate the society, not the government. that's very hard for another government to do. >> fawaz, we don't have a lot of time, but quickly, would you say

there are a lot of people who feel the u.s. response very quickly became too military and yet these were very bad guys. do you think that there was any -- was it not inevitable there would be a very strong military response? >> you know, fareed, i wish we had more time. i will try to be precise. often the question is asked, did 9/11 change the world? i argue that a more pertinent question, to what extent did 9/11 transform america? in the sense of shattering america's innocence, not only about security, but about the world, given rise to interventionist and crew saiding

impulses. involving the united states in wars and distant plans. donald trump in his incoherent way talking about the founders of isis. in fact, it's the unintended consequences the american global war on terror that really paved the way for isis and prolonged the life of jihadist groups. as we know, al qaeda was almost defeated in 2002-2003. it was the invasion of iraq, the distraction of iraq institutions, this intervention impulse, social engineering project by the neo-conservatives. trumps policy proposal, what we think the proposals will have tremendous massive negative consequences and unintended consequences in terms of trying to defeat isis. >> fawaz stick around. tom, mary, we will come back to you. next, you will hear from a man who dealt with the aftermath of 9/11 in both of his top jobs in the obama administration. leon panetta was the cia and the department of defense. when we come back.

>> doesn't mean that we have resolved all the issues. terrorism has continued to me it's a size.

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i spoke with him earlier about the state of the world 15 years after 9/11. secretary panetta, welcome on the show. >> nice to be with you, fareed. >> where do you think we stand 15 years after 9/11? >> i think 15 years after 9/11 has marked a period where the united states has really developed the capability of dealing with threat from terrorism. i mean, during that period of time, we have improved our intelligence capability. we have improved our ability to be able to track and do surveillance on terrorists. we have improved our ability to work with the military on counterterrorism operations. i think we have done a great job

at being able to go after the leadership, particularly of al qaeda. so, we have developed some remarkable capabilities and i think the bottom line is we have been able, as a result of that, to at least prevent another 9/11-type attack on this country. doesn't mean that we have resolved all the issues terrorism has continued to metastacise. all of that remains. >> we have a spirited and interesting critique of the obama administration's approach and the bush administration support. donald trump says it united states has been intervening too much in the middle east, been trigger happy. he says we would have been better off if we hadn't done anything at all or gotten involved. what do you make of that

critique? >> if only the world were as simple as that. the reality is that when you are confronting the threat from terrorism when al qaeda was able to strike at this country, kill over 3,000 people and devastate not only the world trade centers but hit the pentagon and try to hit even other targets in washington, there was no question that the united states had to go to war against terrorism. we had been attacked and i think for that reason, it was important for this nation to go after al qaeda and we did. obviously president bush began that effort. some policies we can agree with,

some we can disagree with. the reality was he knew we had to confront that threat. president obama understood that we had to confront that threat as well. >> donald trump calls hillary clinton trigger happy and unstable. you worked with hillary clinton. what do you think of her temperament and would she make a good commander in chief? >> fareed, from my experience having worked with hillary clinton for over 25 years as first lady, then when she was u.s. senator, then in particular when she was secretary of state, i always found her to be extremely careful and thoughtful, someone who

understands the world and the challenges that we face in the world. who understands the nature of the crises that we are confronting. more importantly, wants to exercise thoughtful judgment in the approach we take. i think she does have the right temperament to be commander in chief. i think she is somebody who can provide the kind of experience and the kind of diligence and care that a president has to use in dealing with a lot of threats that we are confronting in the world. i want to have somebody who understands the nature of those threats and how the united states should respond. that's what hillary clinton can do. >> let me ask you about a specific foreign policy challenge that you would be consumed with while still in your old job, which is the battle against isis and particularly the efforts now under way to retake mosul, the second largest city in iraq, the gain that isis had, which it is

hoped will be reversed. general petraeus had an interesting, smart column in the "washington post" which he said the u.s. is winning the battle against isis. the iraqi army with the help of the u.s. military will certainly be able to retake mosul. the real challenge is, what happens next? who governs mosul, will there bb a political sentiment there that will allow it to include the sunni's so they don't feel excluded and join isis again? what is your sense of whether or not it would be possible, not just militarily to defeat isis, but create the kind of political settlement that will keep isis defeated? >> fareed, i think that is the most important challenge we

face. i agree with general petraeus, that, from a military point of view, i think we have the capability to defeat isis in mosul and ultimately to defeat isis in raqqah as well in syria. we have great special forlss. we have great military capabilities, working with the iraqis and others. i think we are making progress on that front. one area we have not been as effective as we should be is in providing the support system that will ensure that if we defeat terrorism that iraq, syria, libya and yemen and other country that is went through the arab spring are able to govern themselves and establish the institutions to be able to govern themselves and provide stability in the future. that is the one area, frankly, where we need to devote a lot

more attention both diplomatically, economically and we also need to consider the root causes that have produced terrorism, which, frankly, we have not done enough to confront. >> secretary panetta, a pleasure to have you on. thanks so much. >> nice to be with you. next up here on this special edition of gps, marking the 15th anniversary of 9/11. i will talk to the new mayor of london. the first muslim mayor of a major western capital. i'll ask him about the backlash against muslims in his country and elsewhere when we come back. >> one of my opponents would try to divide our city. to have a mayor of islamic faith and in london, hope succeeded over fair unity succeed over division. it felt like i had just gone to the dentist. it just kind of like, wiped everything clean. my teeth are glowing. they look great. they are so white. crest hd 6x cleaning. 6x whitening. and at two weeks, superior sensitivity relief

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four months ago, a man was elected mayor of london. hooeps a muslim whose parents immigrated from pakistan. perhaps it shouldn't have been so astonishing. the last census found 45% of 21st century londoners were white britains. and the second most prevalent after christianity is islam. this week the mayor will embark on his first official visit to north america. before he departs, i had had a chance to speak with the mayor in his first american television interview. he joined me from his offices at city hall. >> where were you on september 11th, 2001? what was that day like for you?

>> it was a day i will never forget. i was at home and i saw the images on tv of the first plane going into the tower. couldn't believe what was happening. the feeling of shock, horror. as the day unfolded and the days unfolded, the real scale of the horror sunk in. on the 15th anniversary of 9/11, my thoughts and prayers but the thoughts and prayers of all of london are with the victims and their families. >> do you think that there is a responsibility for moderate

muslim leaders, particularly, to denounce radical islam and to call for kind of reform? you know, you have heard this cry that they are quiet and that's why the radicals and extremists win. >> if you analyze actual terror around the world, actually the vast, vast, vast majority of victims are men, women and children of the islamic faith. they are victims in muslim countries. what's important is not that we speak out because we are more responsible, sometimes, we can be more effective in stopping the young people from become k radicalize zed or becoming extremists it's important we

tell them the west doesn't hate us. it's not true it's impossible for muslims to have friend that is are jewish, hindu, those not members of an organized faith. there is no conspiracy. what is great about america, london, the uk and other countries around the world is it's possible to be western and liberal values. i'm muslim and really proud in may of this year, london chose me as their mayor. a religious minority and london islamic faith. it shows the world in parts of the world, we cannot simply have our potential fulfilled. we are tolerated and respected and embraced as well. >> what do you think causes that downward spiral of radicalization? we have all looked at the profiles of some of the people who have ended up turning into islamic jihadis. the people behind the london bombings. the people in france. these are young men, sometimes they are religious. often they are not religious. what is it you think causes the downward spiral?

>> one of the reasons why i was so keen to come to north america, going to montreal, new york and chicago is to see how we can work together to address what we face. i was recently in paris. you are right, the last year alone, horrible attacks in paris, brussels, nice and elsewhere. there's a challenge for integration, social integration, making sure our youngsters are resilient. as a young citizen in america, canada, the uk and france or brussels or anywhere, when you are approached bay preacher of hate, when you are approached by someone that says it west hates you and the way to achieve success is turning on your neighbors and your friends, your resilient enough to say you are talking rubbish. i know the truth of islam. i know what being a muslim means. >> what is the mood in britain today? do you think the vote agrains britain staying in the european union, the brexit vote was an

expression of fear or distrust of foreigners? it did seem to me like the campaign moved from economic argue mlts like those who wanted to stay in the european union won the debate. it moved quickly to the issue of migration and the worries about foreigners swamping britain. >> one of the other reasons i'm keen to come to this visit is to show the rest of the world london is open. we are going to carry an open mind. i'm proud that london chose to remain in the european union. it is a fact you are right that my fellow countrymen and women voted to leave the european union. there are a lot of explanations for this. you are right, there was an anti-immigration union. it was used as a scapegoat for the concerns we have.

the ability to get a decent job. the inability to get a home you can rent or buy. waiting times to see the doctor or have an operation. the easy thing to do t lazy thing to do is blame the other, blame the european union. the challenge we have in my country and the elections coming up is to ensure that we show that we can achieve far more working together. london was one of my opponents to try to divide our city and give the impression is that possible to have a mayor of islamic. unity succeeded over division and it's disappointing, you are right. my fellow countrymen and women lose it. london is still very much open. >> now, we are delighted you are coming to the united states. are you worried if he were to implement his always shifting and varying ban on muslims or some muslims or all, you wouldn't be able to get here in

a few months. >> well, i'm looking forward to my visit to america. the election is a long way off. wait and see what happens in november. all i would say is, i'm a firm believer in building bridges rather than walls. a firm believer it's okay to be liberal and practice a faith of islam. the great thing about america is your history tells the rest of the world it is possible for people from italy or ireland or pakistan or syria or from mexico to simply get on with each other, but fall in love with each other, work for each other and work for the common good. i'm looking forward to my visit to america. i love americans. i have a family in america. america is a great, great country. in november, the best candidate a woman. i hope she does. >> a pleasure to have you on. >> pleasure.

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we are back with my all-star panel today. tom friedman, fawaz gerges. tom, i want to suggest to you, we are in a very different place from the years after 9/11 in the sense that it seems to me, americans have understood that we have these terror organizations on the run, they are not a threat to the united states. every time there is an episode, one, you know, lone wolf attack, it does raise the temperature. politicians, like trump, take advantage of it, but it fades

quickly. are we at a different, maybe one would argue a more realistic assessment of the threat from islamic terror? >> i think it's true, fareed, it's less easy for any politician to exploit these things in any sustained way. i would put a couple caveats on it. a reason i find 9/11 such a sad day is not only all the american who is were killed and others, it's the fact, it's like "d" day or pearl harbor day in our memory. pearl harbor pressed a giant war in the pacific where millions of people were killed, it had a happy ending. a more democratic japan and stable europe. 9/11 produced none of that.

9/11, really has -- the only real transformation in the middle east is that we could change germany, we could change japan because they were states. al qaeda, they are not states. these are movements. these are movements that can only be eradicated by the host countries. we have tens of thousands of males in that part of the world that never held a job or power or a girl's hand. the latter may be the most important of all. so, while yes 9/11, these terrorist attacks can't take us down in the exaggerated way that is people predict, but the problem is still there. i worry about the rising power of one. i wouldn't be putting up my feet now. >> mary, what do you think of the politics of terror? do you think that many people think if there were a dramatic attack a few weeks before the election, it still will have the tendency to help a candidate like trump who seems more bella coast? >> i have to take -- terrorism

is a major threat to the united states and our allies. we have isis investigations going on in all 50 states. the president likes to compare isis like bathtub falls. it's not apples to apples comparesons here. we have people that want to come to the united states with chemical attacks and terrorist attacks. we are lucky we haven't had another 9/11 event. we had a promotion that worked. iraq was stable. al qaeda was down to a couple hundred members in iraq at the time the president took office. we engaged with president obama in a policy of retreat. what did that lead to? it led to an expansion of the threat not just in the middle east, but africa, east africa and pakistan and places around the world. i hear rhetoric on this show that this is something we need

to come to terms with and deal with as the president said after one of the attacks, this is just a war within the muslim world. these american casualties are collateral damage. no! the majority of people do not accept that. we need to re-engage in the world. we cannot continue these policies. if we do, we will have another major attack here. that's a large part of the reason donald trump is still in this race. >> annmarie, i have to give you a chance to quickly defend the honor of the obama administration for which you worked. >> i don't think iraq cuz stable when president obama took over. president bush negotiated a withdrawal and president obama continued it. i do think that the invasion of iraq was a massive foreign policy blunder. let's talk about whether we are safer now.

there have been 350 attacks since 9/11 in the united states. 12 have been lethal. only 94 people have died compared to 3,000 on that day. we are much, much safer from the kind of 9/11 style attack. they have tried, they have been stopped. the danger now is exactly as tom friedman said, isis is a virus, right? it spreads from the fragmentation and radicalism in the middle east and we have lone wolves, we have mentally unstable people who can suddenly find purpose in isis propaganda and those lone wolves are part of a pact on social media. we now face a new me tast sized threat that is something you can trace back to 9/11, but then, honestly, i don't think either president bush or president obama can fully address or could

have foreseen. >> we are going to have to come back to you fawaz, which we will. everybody should read his brilliant book on isis. the best book around on isis. we will be back now with my reflections on 9/11. ♪

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the cold war ended overwhelmingly on american terms. dozens of countries from latin america to africa to asia were once staunchly socialist were moving toward capitalism and democracy, embracing a global order they'd all once decried as unjust and imperial. america in the 1990s was consumed by talk of economics and technology. the information revolution was just taking off. i tried to explain to my children that only two decades ago, much of the world that seems indispensable today, the internet, cell phones, did not exist for most people. what few of us recognized at the time was one part of the world was not being reshaped by the winds of change, the middle east. as communism crumbled, latin america yielded apartheid cracked and they gave way to elected leaders. the middle east remained stagnant. almost every regime in the regime from libya to egypt to syria was run by the

same that had been placed for decades. the rulers are secular, autocratic and deeply repressive for the most part. they maintained political control, but produced economic despair and social paralysis. for young men in the middle east and there are a surfeit of young men, the world was moving forward everywhere except at home. into this void entered political islam. now there had always been preachers and thinkers that believed islam was not just a religion, but a system of politics, economics and law. as the secular dictatorships produced misery, more people listened to ideologues who had a solution. islam, they said, is the answer. the seductiveness of that slogan is at the heart of the problem we face today. it is what drives some young, alienated men and some women not just to kill, but difficult to understand, to die. they may be handfuls, but they have succeeded by sewing fear.

have succeeded a sowing fear. the striking change that is taking place across the middle east is that today stability has been replaced by instability. america's intervention in iraq might have been the spark but the kindling had been piling up high. the arab spring, for example, was the result of powerful demographic and social pushing up against regimes that lost the ability to respond or adapt. when the repressive ruler was toppled, saddam, gadhafi, the entire political order unraveled and the nation, itself, fell apart and chaos rained. apart and chaos reigned. the pressing challenge now is defeating isis. it's not really about vanquishing it on the battlefield. america has won battles like that for 15 years in afghanistan and iraq, only to discover the week u.s. forces leave, the taliban or isis or some other radical group returns.

the way to have these groups stay defeated is to help muslim countries find some form of politics that address the basic aspirations of their people, all of their people. the goal is simple, stop waves of disaffected young men from falling into despairing conditions, surfing the web, and finding the same slogan, islam, by which radical islam is the answer. when those young men stop clicking on that line, that is when the war on terror will be won. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week.

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thanks to secretary panetta, mayor kahn and my panel for being here today. thanks for being part of this special program. i will see you next week. hello i'm wolf blitzer in new york. we're following breaking news of hillary clinton's leaving a 9/11 event early after feeling unwell. cnn obtained new video showing hillary clinton stumbling as she leaves the 9/11 memorial ceremony earlier today here in new york. the campaign says hillary clinton campaign says she left the event early after feeling overheated. you can see her appearing to lose her balance, as aides assist her into the car. her motorcade took her to her daughter's chelsea's, nearby apartment and a few hours she left waving to the media, you see her walking out that door, saying she felt