>> the shrapnel has gone out in all directions. if you look at the plywood you can see some holes in the this chunk of plywood. >> if a person was standing where this plywood was? >> they are going to be severely injured. the global expression of knowledge is what it is today. as much as you can learn anything on the internet, i think that is what we're faced with. >> and that was keung law. good evening. federal prosecutors have just filed charges against a man suspected of planting bombs in new york and new jersey including a weapons mass destruction charge and we're getting more of the puzzle, including how the suspect allegedly gathered the components for the bombs. suspect still in a hospital in newark. and we're getting more about his

home life. more in a moment first gym sciutto has the details.jim sciutto has the details. >> reporter: some remarkable details here. one, he bought many of the components on ebay, shipping them to an address in new jersey. as recently as two days before the attack he was testing out these explosive devices. what looked like a cylindrical explosive device. filming it on a relatives cell phone and then another one-half buried in a backyard, laughing. himself seen in the frame of the video laughing as he made this test. raising reasonable questions as to whether someone should have seen or heard him do this. this as the fbi was revealing that he was on their radar screen two years ago. at least questions of his terror involvement dismissed at the time. >> tonight u.s. officials tell cnn the fbi interviewed the father of the suspect in 2014. after a violent domestic dispute

led to a tip allegeding the father was calling his son a terrorist. after the father then down played the accusatioaccusation, ultimately conclude it was a domestic matter. today the suspect's father told cnn more about the violent altercation. >> now he say he is a terrorist. i say okay. >> why did you call the fbi two years ago. >> pause he doing bad. >> what is he doing bad. >> he stand my son. he hurt my wife. and i put him to jail two years ago. >> investigators are now attempting to question the suspect, though police say he still isn't talking. one urgent question, did he have help in carrying out the alleged attacks? >> do you still believe that he acted alone with these attacks and attempted attacks? >> well it is very early in the investigation so as we move through this we're going to determine who the acquaintances were, family, friends, go through the social media. see if he had any phones. we'll go through all that to

make that determination. >> pointing to possible inspirations, a notebook the suspect was carrying when captured, referenced american aqap lead er. investigators are now scrutinizing the suspect's travels to afghanistan and pakistan where he married and had a child and spent time in areas with a heavy taliban presence. this to determine if he was radicalized overseas. the afghan taliban has publicly denied any involvement in the bombings. >> the officials are trying to determine if he had help in this endeavor. it would have taken some time to get all of the materials to put these bombs together. >> reporter: the explosive devices themselves hold clues as well. they were made with easy to obtain ingredients and with

recipes that are accessible online. but those materials, considered by experts to be a high explosive could have created a blast even bigger than was seen at the deadly boston marathon bombings. >> jim, what did the fbi have to say about the fact that the father called them years ago? >> reporter: this is their answer. they said they made an assessment at the time. conducted multiple interview, they conferred with other law enforcement agencies and checked their databases and made a conclusion that at the time two years ago he had no established ties to terrorism groups. these are judgment calls they have to make. they cannot predict what someone will do. they can only make a decision oz to who is an immediate threat. two years ago that was their decision. of course two years later just behind me here he did attempt to carry out a terror attack. >> jim, thanks for those details. the new details about the suspect of his relationships and family life painting a troubling

picture to say the least. pamela brown joins me. what do you know about the suspect's wife? >> we learned he met his wife traveling overseas. her name is asia rahami. and in 2011 sna put an application to dominant the u.s. it was approved. there were some issues with her visa and passport. she became pregt. eventually we're told by u.s. officials she did come to the united states but she left sometime before the bombs were placed by her husband. there is no indication she fled this early stage in the investigation. in fact we know u.s. officials in the united arab emirates have been peeking to her and she's been cooperating giving information and not been accused of any wrong doing but of course she's someone that officials want to learn from about her husband why he did something like this and what she may have known. >> and when the suspect returned to the u.s. after traveling to afghanistan, pakistan.

was any further action taken after that? >> we learned from u.s. firnls that customs and border protection enter the information they received in the secondary screening into a database shared by law enforcement. and in addition were told that cvp notified law enforcement agencies, including the fbi, about rahami given where he traveled to, these high risk areas and given the fact that he spent a year in pakistan and had been there previously. i'm told by law enforcement officials he was in a batch of people. so there was a list of names. he was one of them. he wasn't singled out and that these notifications are pretty common. but we're told anderson, that the fbi was notified about him just a few months before the inquiry was opened up in august of 2014. yet he was never interviewed. so all of this is really under review right now anderson? >> thanks for the details. joining me now --

a layman looking at this saying, wait a minute. the dad called the fbi, said my son's a terrorist. we know he traveled in afghanistan. pakistan. spent a year in pakistan. in quetta no less. headquarters of taliban. and yet, you know, and was blowing up stuff in his backyard on video and yet they didn't put the pieces together. is it a mistake on their part? or is -- i mean, you know what is like to make the threat assessment. what happened? >> we're look at this in the wrong direction. we take one case and say are there things that should have been suspicious? of course. go the other direction. the direction i lived in. take a sea of information of the a dad calls and says he's concerned about his kid. he claims he told the fed his kid was a terrorist. that's what e says.

that that. he doesn't have to declare when he returns to country. let's take those facts. a dad calls and says he's concerned about a kid and the kid travelled to pakistan. 330 million people in this country. 2 million plus traveling overseas every month. you cannot take that information, anderson and say this should leave me to develop a further investigation. too many people, too many problems. i think people are taking a case and saying we should have spent more time on it without thinking about how you boil down notion to get to a case. >> you are essentially doing triage with all the variety of -- >> correct. >> there are cases going on in the country. investigations. you have to do triage. >> right. if you were to take a physician and say there are 500 patients in the emergency room. and sure if you succeed with 499 that the last one doesn't die you would say that is a good success rate. with the fbi you say take 500

suspects and ensure the last one doesn't succeed an attack. that is not a bar that you can meet. you are looking at this case saying his dad says i'm concerned saying he traveled. you cannot investigate aevery oe of those individuals. one last point. if you were to go court to look at that individual's e-mail. to do that you need a court order. the court would say not even close to enough information. >> this guy some of the components on ebay. >> including citric acid class component of hmtd which is believed to be the detonate ner this device. but stunning new details from. the power of -- >> the kind of explosive was particularly powerful. >> powerful. it was high explosive. and some details giving an idea of just how powerful 400 feet

away windows were shattering up to three stories. 650 meters of -- feet, of fragmentation. this was a very very powerful device. propelled a heavy duty metal dumpster 120 feet across the road. if it had not been placed inside that dumpster it could have been a lot lot more deadly. experts believe that contained some of the force of the blast. we don't know whether he decided to place it in the dumpster for some reason or perhaps a passer by put it in there thinking it was litter. we don't know the case. this was a very powerful device. hmtd the detonating device. very few have manage dod that without getting training overseas. very worrying new details. this device produced the most powerful blast in an islamist terrorist plot on the united states since the world trade center attack of 1992 3.

>> original world trade center attacks. >> this guy put it on subways or something we could have seen dozens and dozens of people killed in new york. >> the point the fact was the guy at some point had bonn the fbi's radar. his father had called hymn a terrorist. the fbi apparently knew that. although we haven't heard that directly from them. it apparently was tangled up in a domestic dispute? do you agree with phil? so many cases and just one doesn't rise to the surface at the time? >> yeah, i think in some way the family dispute may have led the fbi to believe that they were -- the fbi was getting entangled with a very complicated family and you look at the family's interactions amongst themselves. this was a family under tremendous stress and a lot of hostility. and so i agree with phil. we also don't know what exactly was said. we're hearing this from the father. we know in all of these cases the father or the mother or

someone else tries to sort of say, i tried do something. and often that doesn't end up being true. i think where there might have been a trigger moment, a moment in which something different could have happened because remember that was two years ago, was in the purchases. phil and i know there is a lot more monitoring of purchases around the country than people might believe or think of materials that might be used for bombs or violence. whether it is, you know, raw materials or instruments of violence or whatever else. and i'm curious whether and in the investigation will find out to what extent anything might have been triggered by the ebay purchases or the fact they were through third party vernsd which is what ebay essentially is. and that might be a loophole we might begin to think about closing. >> the fact that -- i mean in this federal complaint we learned there is video showing the guy in the words of the federal complaint igniting incendiary nearly a backyard. there is laughter in the

background. it does raise questions about where and how the suspect was allegedly building this device and who else knew about it and/or helped him here or overseas with just the training of how to do it. >> i think that is right. this is a snapshot of the evolution of terror. in 2001, 2012 2 when i was at the cia i would have said it is the fed's responsibility to find these guys. we look at communications for example back then of al qaeda. we look at human sources going into al qaeda and afghanistan or pakistan. and we might be able to say in los angeles or new york or washington. there is an al qaeda plot moving into america. today when we don't have a central group that is organized this stuff. when we have individual whose self radicalize, the evolution of terror means that a family member, a friend has too call the feds in contrast to 15 years ago and say i saw something in the backyard. my kid is talking about something that is uncomfortable. he's talking about violence. the game is really shifted from the fed's responsibility to

identify these people to local folks who are family members saying, the guy's experimenting with explosive devices and i'm uncomfortable. that is the question i have. who knew what when? >> more breaking news source closest to president george h.w. bush said he told a room of people he's voting for hillary clinton in the november. and new reporting how donald trump used charity money to settle lawsuits against him. his own charity, the donald trump foundation, more than a quarter of a million dollars. the question is did he violate any laws? we'll look at that ahead.

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cnn has conformed former president george h.w. bush has said he's going vote for hillary clinton in november. his remark went public. brianna keilar joins was details. what are you learning, brianna? >> it is really quite unprecedented anderson. we've learned about this event. there were about 40 people there according to multiple sources. and george h.w. bush at his foundation event talking to board members was talking specifically to kathleen kennedy

townsend but there were other people around and he told her that he was planning to vote for hillary clinton. according to multiple people who heard. this came to light after kathleen kennedy townsend. the daughter of bobby kennedy and former lieutenant governor of maryland posted this on her facebook but. an extraordinary rebuke of donald trump. donald tru --. michael hayden called trump a recruiting sergeant for isis. >> it demonstrates a level of ignorance about the terror threat that really is disqualifying for a person seeking the presidency. when she says my opposition to radical islamic terror providing aid and comfort to the enemy, we know that hillary clinton has once again demonstrated that she's really unfit for office. >> as clinton takes a break from the campaign trail to get ready

for the first presidential debate, trump is taunting her about her health saying on twitter hillary clinton is taking the day off again. she these the rest. sleep well hillary, see you at the debate. with less than a week to go until the nominees share the stage we're getting a preview to trump's approach. >> i can talk about a record which is a disaster. i can talk about all she's done to help isis. >> i expect ugh do that anyway. >> and ill will be doing that. so we're going to go back and forth. she's got a lot of baggage. >> what about personal attacks. he wouldn't rule them out is this. >> if she treats me with respect. i'll treat her with respect. it really depends. >> telling the steve harvey she's not worried about it. >> i've been at this and, you know, i understand as the contact sport. but i'm not going to take what he says about everybody else, you know, his attacks on african americans and immigrants and muslims and women and people with disabilities.

>> there you go. >> it is just something we cannot tolerate. >> as the candidates gear up for their showdown trump's son is having one of his own with a candy company. donald trump jr. tweeting this image with a bowl of skittles with the caption, if i had a bowl of skittels and told you three would till you, would you take a handful. >> that is our syrian refuge problem. and brought a rebuke from mars usa. skittles are candy. syrians are people. we don't feel it is an appropriate analogy. and more scrutiny for trump. the workshop post reporting the charitable organization spent more than a quarter million dollars to set lawsuits against trump's business interests. a possible violation of the country's tax laws. >> i want to correct something. i think i had said that former

president george h.w. bush told a --. >> he did though seem to say it in earshot of many people. we don't know exactly how many but certainly it was more than a couple. >> just wanter to clear. i misspoke. i shouldn't have said a room full of people. secretary clinton is off the campaign trail today. is she expected back tomorrow? >> she is. she's been spending hours looking at tape of donald trump. but she's going to be on the campaign trail tomorrow. she's in battleground florida. she'll be giving an economic speech in orlando. the economy really the issue anderson that her campaign thinks is going to be so important in this election. but it is also interesting to note that she's going to be talking about what she calls an inclusive economy. she'll be focusing about disabled americans and other groups of american whose suffer higher unemployment rates than

the general population. >> brianna thanks very much. talking with ore panel now. joining me --. john, is there a chance former president bush actually wanted this leak? do you really this day and age say something in front of people and expect it won't get out? >> people around the former president say it was a private conversation. he meant it to be. i believe kathleen kennedy townsend has taken down the post but let's be real here. number one, he may not be at the top of his game anymore but he is hasn't lost his game. he knows how to play off the field, if you will. and remember the bush family's contempt. donald trump mocked jeb bush and repeatedly ridiculed george w. bush and his statements about the iraq war he has said he wishes the first iraq war was

finished right. that was george h.w. bush's war. the bush family is incredibly loyal. if you know the family, they're not for trump. ity he knew this would happen. >> how much do you think this could effect things? kirsten? is it just shy of an endorsement -- you could say it is shy offen doris from a former republican president a leader of the republican party. formally. >> obviously it is a big deal. this is unprecedented to have a former president from the other party endorsing the opposing party. but i would tend to think that any establishment republican who's not voting for donald trump has probably made up their mind at this point. i now the clinton campaign is definitely starting to target republicans with an ad using mitt romney and kelly ieiot and different republicans speaking about trump but ultimately i don't think this is what's going to particularly move voters. if i i this you are a trump

supporter anding towards trump you are going to look at this and say of course this is what happens. this is what the establishment does. the establishment sticks together and hillary is the establishment and the bushes. and they are all friends and we all know bill clinton is friends with him and bill clinton is friends with w. so i'd be surprised if it makes a huge difference in the race. >> also john you could say that for liberals, maybe some bernie sanders supporters, hearing that former president bush is supporting secretary clinton, that may not be, you know, top of their list of endorsements they want to be following. >> i don't think -- i don't think it is going to drive a lot of votes either way. there are some republican whose can't vote for donald trump who don't think they can vote for a clinton who might be in the gary johnson or might sit it out. so there is maybe a small group of people out there. i don't think in this campaign what have we learned? people aren't following the leader so much. i don't think establishment matters. h.w. bush has largely stayed out of politics for a long time. i think it is embarrassing if

you are donald trump to have this happen but he's been running against the establishment all along. >> both candidates are clearly trying to position themselves as better to do with the threat from terrorism. do you see either's handling of this moment attracting new voters? or does it reinforce reasons why people support or oppose them? >> i think it mostly refersis wh -- reinforces what they have shown us. hillary clinton says -- i do think because the attack is so fresh it will -- g f you add up the third party candidates and undecided it is about 20% of the electorate. i do think there are some people out there with something like this front and center. we'll watch over the next days but more importantly we'll watch when they are shoulder to shoulder on monday night and maybe close their eyes and say okay who do i see in the oval office? >> do you agree that these

debates could be defining? >> yeah i think the debates are definitely important. and hillary has typically polled better on this issue than trump. not by huge margins but still she is the preferred person. i think it is an issue also in terms of enthusiasm. because if you lack at the quinnipiac poll 70% of trump supporters are concerned about terrorist attack harming member of their families of contrast with hillary voters. 30% are concerned about that. so you can see a really big difference how this animates both sides. >> coming up more breaking news. new allegations against the trump foundation. that donald trump actually used charity money to settle lawsuits against his businesses. we'll have details on that. [ "on the road again," by willie nelson ] ♪ on the road again

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tonight there is even more reporting on allegations surrounding the trump foundation. namely that donald trump took money intend forward charity

donations and used it to settle lawsuits against his own businesses. according to the washington post this happened to the tune of $258,000. the trump foundation was already under scrutiny because allegation he used the foundation to funnel other people's money to other organizations. this new report says he actually wrote checks from his charitable foundation to settle lawsuits from his for profit businesses. of all things reported about the trump foundation, this is pretty surprising. can you explain exactly what donald trump was using money from a foundation to pay off? >> so the money in his foundation was given by other people to donald trump. it belongs in the charity. it can only be used to do charitable work. but instead we have two cases where trump's businesses, one a club in florida the other a golf course in new york got in legal trouble and made settlements to get out of that. as part, the club, the busine businesses agreed to make

donations to charity. what trump did was take must be from the charities and use that to pay off the --. >> in the case of i think it was mar-a-lago, the club in florida. there were a bunch of -- was it fine organization liens or something the local community, that he was supposed to pay but the local community agreed to get rid of those if he made this donation. >> he put p a jooigtic flag poll that was like 30 feet too tall for the code. and he build up all these fines for his club. the town settlement said we're not going make you pay the $120,000 but you the club have to make a donation to charity. and the -- >> is that okay under the law? is it ethical?

>> the law says a bar against something called self dealing. that is, if you are the head of a foundation you can't take the maun out of the foundation and use to it buy things for yourself or things that benefit your businesses. people i've talked to said this is a pretty clear case where trump took the money out of his charity and kid a thing that saved his own business money? >> what might happen? if somebody looks at this, does he poem pay a fine? >> penalties could include trump may have to give the money back that the foundation paid on his behalf. he would also pay penalty taxes. he could pay penalty taxes for having filed a false irs return because he told the irs he had not engaged in acts of self dealing he could even have his charity's non profit status t e taken away. >> the new york attorney general -- is he going to be looking at these specific attractions or only stuff in new york. >> since the trump foundation is head quartered in new york all of these attractions are under his purview. >> is thereny timeline for this

investigation? any chance it will be done before the election? obviously trump's supporters say this is politically motivated. >> i imagine they are trying to work on it fast but i don't know if it's before the election. >> last time you were on the program you are trying to track down a six foot tall painting he bought with foundation funds and i understand he bought a second portrait using money from the foundation. i understand just a little while ago owe tweeted out a picture of that portrait from trip advisor, is that right? >> trump bought this painting for the charity in 2014. and since the charity bought it has to be use for charity purposes. yet it is hanging on the wall in trump's club. >> david, thanks very much. up next, the american white

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just six days from the first presidential debate. white college graduates make up 66% of trump supporters. back in 1994, 62% were whites with no college. four years only made up 36% of voters. the demographics in america are clearly changing and with those changes come supervisions of the white working class. we want to get past those and --. we teamed one the kaiser family foundation for a in-depth survey. what we found both confirmed and challenged basically a lot of conventional wisdom. one finding, 40% of white working class believe america's best days are behind us. take that information and take trump's repeated slogan, make america great again.

and you can see reason why this votic bloc is the occur of donald trump's support. john kink joins us with more. we talked about the importance of the white working class and now we have this detailed look after who drives their politics. can o you take a us through what the survey found. >> at its core is the economic anxiety and feeling left out. left out of the economy and feeling i in order by government. look at this. will your children be worse off? essentially the american dream question. 50% of the white working class believes yes, their children will be worse off than they are. and the black works class is 43%. this is a much higher number than other subsets. economically they are pessimistic about what comes down the road for themselves but more importantly for their children. also they don't think government understands this problem and understands them. how well does government represent your view. the percentage saying not at all well. 56%. much higher than other groups. nearly 6 in 10 members of the

white working class saying my government doesn't get me. it doesn't represent my needs and my concerns. you can understand why ab outsider like trump appeal that that. economics again. trade agreements here? what impact? only 5% say international trade agreements create jobs in the united states. they agree with donald trump. 69% of the white working class says trade agreements bleed jobs from the united states. only 21% say they make noo difference at all. remember that 70% number just about. 69%. shouldn't surprise you then. of those considering voting for donald trump, members of the white working class, 79%. so nearly 8 in 10 members of the white working class thinking about voting for donald trump agree the trade agreements cost u.s. jobs. 8 in 10 of white working class voters thinking about voting for trump, they are with him on this. they think nafta should be

ripped up. >> and about immigration and tougher calls about letting muslims into the united states? >> no question about that same anxiety and security anxiety factors in. this is the white working class. nearly half say immigrants are a burden on the country today. only 40% and we don't have the other groups up here but this is higher. 47% say this is a burden. higher than other groups. especially white college-educated voters. the terrorism question. immigrants from muslim question, do they increase the terror risk. 63%, more than 6 in 10 of the white working class think yes. muslim immigrants increase the terror risk and probably no surprise you can make this connection. 82% of white working class voters considering voting for donald trump agree that immigrants from muslim countries increase the terror risk. among those not supporting donald trump? 63%. so no question in this group

they agree to do something about it. >> do the numbers back up the idea that this group t white working class is the basic trump support. >> yes. and overwhelmingly so. >> yes. there will be about ho% of the electorate. 60% of white working class voters are considering voting for donald trump. 6 in 10 say i'm going think about voting for donald trump. that is a stunning number but now look at this number. 68% say they will not consider voting for hillary clinton. so she has a huge problem with the white working class. only three in ten only give her a chance. that is pretty overwhelming. >> i want to bring back the panel. a lot to discuss. maria, only 29% of white working class would consider voting for hillary clinton in battleground states like pennsylvania and ohio, that is a huge issue.

does she lose if she can't get that number up? >> i think first of all that number is not really all that surpri surprising. it is not a group that she's giving up on however. she has focused her policies frankly. her policies will help white working class voters when she talks about doing the biggest jobs investment since world war ii. that is strictly focussed on white working class voters. >> if number doesn't rise can she win? >> i do think so. that is not show he wants to win. s wants as many voters as possible. but president obama didn't do well with white working class either. >> why isn't the message resonating is this. >> because i think unfortunately what donald trump is doing, we've seen from the very beginning that his message does resonate for all of the reasons that we saw. he is focused on playing to the fears of this electorate. and there is no question that there is anxiety there it is something that hibbert brings up all the time. they do feel left out.

we have to help with the policies that will help them. she focuses on trying to bring them together along with the rest of the country whereas donald trump is? b who focuses on their fears and 23459 not leadership. >> 8 in 10 white working class voters are actually satisfied with their lives and yet the majority of them believe their kids are not going to have as good a life. >> i think that is very typical. and where this comes to play. i'm a pennsylvaniaen. when you go to places like altoona and johnstown and williamsport? southwestern pennsylvania. if they are trying to provide an education for their kids and do various things to help their kids down the future they are looking at this and saying she's shutting off their future. >> in 1970 it is democratic party was the party of the white working class. why the shift to republicans generally in trump specifically?

>> how much time do you have? if you gok go back and look at it play out we can talk about the civil rights movement and the civil rights act. we can talk a democrats becoming known as the party of tax and spend. and the republicans so called strategy --. [ slow down ] >> you can talk about even the election more recently of the first african american president. you want to talk about trump. remember no longer but until friday a champion of the birther movement and he play -- i'm not saying all trump supporters agree on that. but there is a long list. we could spend an hour or go on the democrat's party's decline of the white working class voters. including -- so there are a number of reasons but no doubt about it that the shifts in white working class now favor trump and they are the backbone especially in the rust belt states. e needs them to turn out and in huge numbers. >> angela and the rest of the panel by we dat goth to take a break. also what donald trump said in north carolina today. including comparing african american communities and

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african-americans, with the same kind of message that's drawn fire in the past, but kind of on steroids. listen. >> we're going to rebuild our inner cities, because our african-american communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before, ever, ever, ever. you take a look at the inner cities, you get no education. you get no jobs, you get shot walking down the street. they're worse. i mean, honestly, places like afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities. >> and back with the panel. angela, when you hear donald trump say that african-american communities are, quote -- and i want to get this right, in the worst shape they have ever been before, ever, ever, ever, do you know any african-american who would agree that statement? >> probably a trump supporter. and for what it's worth, there are a few that appear on this network.

i think the challenge i have is, when we talk about, they have no education, i wronder where he went to school. i wonder what textbook he had. i wonder why he never learned about slavery. the atlantic slave trade. i wonder why he didn't learn about jim crow and segregation. i wonder if he knows about, you know, the soldiers who fought in the korean war and world war ii, who came back -- world war i, who came back here to communities that didn't accept them, because they were other. and when we go full circle back to this poll you were just talking about, with white working class voters, this is an election that donald trump has made about otherism. and otherism is, frankly, racism. where it is wrong to be different. he just compared black communities to afghanistan and the timing of it is dangerous. we are talking about someone who just spent a year in afghanistan and is a terrorist. a bomber. so that type of connection to a community that i come out of is

immensely frustrating, it's hurtful, and it's wrong. >> donald trump has said, he'll never lie, you know, but to say that african-american communities are worse than they ever, ever -- and they probably are. they're probably less safe than they've ever been in the history of this country. >> no! andre, do you know about lynching? >> -- than they've ever been. >> but, wait, wait, we're talking about -- ever in the united states. slavery, segregation, i mean -- >> the death rate is probably higher now in those urban communities than it's ever been. >> jeffrey lord, do you believe that? >> well, certainly, what's going on in chicago at the moment is not good. >> but african-american communities are worse than they've ever, ever, ever been? >> i think when you've got the murder rate in the city of chicago? what was the murder rate for african-americans -- >> the last person could not walk down the street -- in some communities in america, a black

person could not walk down the street and look at a white person in the eye without having great risk to their life. >> now they can't do it -- >> no, wait a minute! wait a minute, you guys. i just have -- i just have to say this. because anderson just said something, as if it's past, right? that a black man couldn't look a white person in the eye. if we talk about terence crutcher, who is the black man who just lost his life, hands up with a police officer, one who supposed -- an entity that's supposed to protect and serve. it's not just black people who are killing each other. and i want to be clear about this. white people kill each other, too. you kill people who you are in proximity to. that's just a fact. >> americans kill each other. >> that's true. and you were just talking about black americans. i'm telling you about an issue of excessive force and excessive violence with black people and men and women in uniform. that is also a problem. so i just think that you all -- i'm asking you now, as your friend, when we go off air, please utilize facts when you bring up these points about how

dangerous -- >> but also, let me point out, crime rates nationwide have gone down since the 1990s, during the crack epidemic. i mean, there are -- to say that it's worse than it has ever, ever, ever been is just factually incorrect. >> yeah. i mean, maybe he's exaggerating -- >> maybe? >> but to make a point. to make a point, things are not satisfactory. >> but you can make that point without making up a fact. >> anderson, i think we have to keep getting back to why -- you started to brick this up, but left out one key thing. jim crow and slavery and all the things that got us here. who was responsible? >> racism was responsible! jeffrey, jeffrey! >> excuse me! anderson, anderson doesn't like when we all talk at the same time, so let me respond to you, jeffrey. >> then i will respond. >> that's fine. it's up to him, he's the moderator. i guess what i would say to you is this.

you continue to blame the democratic party for something that is a vestige of slavery in this country. it is called racism. we can continue -- >> -- racism for the democratic party. >> systemic oppressive racism for white people against people of color and that other that your candidate continues to prey on. we have to acknowledge what that is. racism is bipartisan. it is a nonpartisan problem. jeffrey, start putting it at the feet -- >> wait, wait, wait -- >> first. >> when president obama said the other night to the congressional black caucus -- >> i was there. >> okay. and did he not say, if you don't -- meaning the black community -- vote for hillary clinton -- >> that's not what he said. he said if this community does not come out and vote, it will be an insult to my legacy. and i'm happy to give you time. >> i want to bring john in here. donald trump only has 3% of the black vote according to the latest polling. if his message is, what the hell do you have to lose, if that's

failing to resonate according to polls, how will this statement improve that standing? or can it? >> well, as you listen to angela speak, there's no question the clinton campaign says, part of the problem is, we should applaud. we should applaud any candidate that wants to compete for votes. one of the problems we've had in american politics for the last 20-plus years is republicans have not gone into the african community in a sustained way and competed. however, you hear angela and from a lot of democrats is donald trump use these issues as black and white issues. and they're not. he didn't talk like jeffrey just did. donald trump doesn't say, we have a huge problem in chicago. i would like to get to understand it better. i would like to help if i'm president. in detroit, you had economic exodus of jobs. if i'm president, i would like to help. he talks about this best and work and stark and this. and democrats abandoned you. and he also doesn't acknowledge, anderson, in north carolina, there is a thriving african-american middle class, in maryland, in many places across the country. i don't want to overgeneralize. but in that state where the african-american vote is so key, look in the charlotte area and charlotte suburbs.

go up to the research triangle in raleigh-durham, there are doctors and researchers and professionals who happen to be african-american and who are critical to the vote, and some of them are open to taxes and spending, but it's the language he uses that gets him into trouble. again, we should applaud the effort, but i think he needs to spend more time in the community, because he'll learn the language better. >> we've got to take a break. much more ahead on tonight's breaking news, more on politics coming up. but we'll take a look at the charges federal investigators are filed against the suspects in the bombings in new york and new jersey. the latest on that. tween you ans beautiful moments. flonase gives you more complete allergy relief. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything. ♪

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