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this hour of "360." a lot to get to in this hour including my ent view with alicia machado, the former miss universe who says donald trump bullied her when she gained weight. it came up in last night's debate. trump talked about her weight gain again today. i'll speak with her in this hour. first, last night's fiery debate is over. the sparks are still firing. the cnn/orc poll says a clear majority say clinton won. brianna keilar in north carolina where clinton's trying to leverage her momentum from last night. brianna's going to have the latest in a moment. cnn's sara murray also in florida tonight where donald trump held a rally. she'll join me live. the candidates have been trading punches all day. trump has been insisting he won the debate despite what voters said in that cnn/orc poll. at the same time he spent part of his day blaming and complaining about the debate as well. here's sara's report. >> but it was an interesting evening certainly. big league. definitely big league. >> reporter: a day after the first presidential debate donald trump is playing the blame game. >> well, he didn't ask her about the e-mails at all. he didn't ask her about her

scandals. he didn't ask her about the benghazi deal that she destroyed. >> reporter: after complimenting the debate moderator last night -- >> i thought lester did a great job. i thought -- honestly, i thought he did a great job. >> you thought the questions were fair? >> yeah, i thought it was great. >> reporter: today he's taking issue with nbc's lester holt. >> i had some hostile questions, but that was okay. >> reporter: and even the quality of his microphone on the debate stage. >> you have a bum mike, it's not exactly good. >> reporter: now trump's trying to reset the narrative, taking to twitter to cast clinton as a career politician. in a year when voters are looking for change. saying "crooked hillary says she is going to do so many things. why hasn't she done them in her last 30 years?" that's after some of trump's sharpest lines early in the debate. >> your husband signed nafta, which was one of the worst things that ever happened -- >> well, that's your opinion. >> -- to the manufacturing -- >> reporter: were at least partly overshadowed by feisty exchanges later on that put trump on defense. >> so you've got to ask

yourself, why won't he release his tax returns? maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. or maybe he doesn't want the american people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes. >> that makes me smart. >> reporter: clinton pressing the billionaire businessman on his refusal to release his taxes yet again today. >> it got to that point where i said, well, maybe he's paid zero. he said that makes him smart. now, if not paying taxes makes him smart, what does that make all the rest of us? >> reporter: and leaving trump's campaign manager to explain the gop nominee doesn't believe climate change is manmade. >> he believes that climate change is naturally occurring. >> reporter: after clinton scoffed at trump's beliefs last night. >> donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the chinese. i think it's real. >> i did not -- >> scientists -- >> i did not say that. i do not say that.

>> reporter: back on the campaign trail today, clinton couldn't resist one last chance to needle her opponent. >> anybody that complains about the microphone is not having a good night. >> donald trump did seem pretty subdued earlier today. what was he like at tonight's rally? >> reporter: well, we saw a much feistier candidate on the stump here in florida this evening. it's clear that whatever opportunities he may have missed to go after hillary clinton on that debate stage, he wanted to make up for tonight on the stump. he called clinton virtually incompetent. he went after her over her e-mails. he went after her over foreign policy. and also over trade. and he laid out, anderson, what i think is going to be key to his pitch between now and november, which is essentially saying that he is the candidate of the future, his is the campaign of the future, and if hillary clinton is a candidate of yesterday, that she's had decades in public life, in public office and has very little to show for it. i expect we'll be hearing a lot of that in the next 40-something days. >> as we said, hillary clinton hit the campaign trail as well with a much different tone than

trump. here's brianna keilar. >> reporter: hillary clinton all smiles after her first debate showdown with donald trump. >> did anybody see that debate last night? [ cheers and applause ] >> one down, two to go. >> reporter: jabbing at her rival today at a rally in north carolina for his criticism that she was overprepared. >> he made it very clear that he didn't prepare for that debate. you know, at one point he was kind of digging me for spending time off the campaign trail to get prepared. but just trying to keep track of everything he says took a lot of time and effort. >> i think it's real. >> i did not -- >> scientists -- >> i do not say that. i do not say that. >> reporter: the clinton campaign thinks trump's constant interruptions of clinton won't go over well with women and reinforce her attacks on his temperament. >> wait. the af of lcio the other day behind the blue screen, i don't know who you were talking to, secretary clinton, but you were

totally out of control. i said there's a person with a temperament that's got a problem. >> secretary clinton? >> whew. okay. >> clinton also went after trump, the former owner of the miss universe pageant, for criticizing the weight of one winner. >> and one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. he called this woman miss piggy. then he called her miss housekeeping because she was latina. donald, she has a name. >> where did you find this? >> her name is alicia machado. >> where did you find this? >> and she has become a u.s. citizen. and you can bet -- >> oh, really? >> -- she's going to vote this november. >> okay. good. >> reporter: the clinton campaign followed up today with a new online video featuring machado. >> hello, miss piggy. sometimes he'd say hello, miss housekeeping. >> reporter: and trump's comments about her. >> she weighed 118 pounds or 117 pounds and she went up to 160 or 70. so this is somebody that likes to eat. >> reporter: a trump spokesperson said machado's

claims are unsubstantiated. but trump refused to back away from his comments today. >> she gained a massive amount of weight. and it was a real problem. >> reporter: trump did land blows on the issue of trade, where clinton's ardent support of the transpacific partnership as secretary of state despite her reversal as a candidate has been a vulnerability in rust belt battleground states. >> you called it's gold standard -- >> well, i -- >> you called it's gold standard of trade deals. you said it's the finest deal you've ever seen. >> no. >> and then you heard what i said about it and all of a sudden you were against it. >> well, donald, i know you live in your own reality. but that is not the facts. the facts are i did say i hoped it would be a good deal. >> sabrina, has clinton talked more about tpp today? because she did call it in the past the gold standard. >> reporter: that's right. she did. she did not talk about it today. this is an area of vulnerability for her. so perhaps not surprising. her spokesman tried to spin this and say basically what hillary clinton said, that what she was

saying was she hoped it would be the gold standard. but that is certainly not what she said, anderson, when she was secretary of state. she never said that her support for the trade pact was contingent on the final details that were going to be negotiated. and we've looked into this. there were dozens of times, more than 40 times where she pushed for this trade pact and she was -- you know, you would describe her support for it as really effusive, in fact. >> brianna keilar. thanks very much. just ahead, how do donald trump's claims about stop and frisk stand up to a reality heck? and who strayed most from the truth last night in the heat of the debate? a reality check on that ahead. plus i'll talk to former miss universe alicia machado who landed smack in the middle of the debate last night. today donald trump kept up his comments about her. you'll hear her response next. i'm fa-reezing! well, i told you to bring a warmer jacket. when? every day since you could walk! now i just say it with my eyes like... folks, park ranger mark. -sup, bro? -hey, forest cop. you're taking up a lot of space. i'm going to need you to move a vehicle. todd, load the four-wheeler into the truck. flo: that's like bundling!

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and customer service experts to help answer your questions. so you can learn to be better. good job. start building your credit skills today for free. visit experian.com/free right now. experian®. be better at credit. last night was a busy one for fact checkers including our team at cnn. hillary clinton and donald trump made a lot of claims during the 95-minute debate not all of them true. who strayed more from the truth? tom foreman takes a look. >> reporter: amid new fears of rising crime a controversial police tactics worked its way into the debate. stopping people and frisking them for minor suspicions. donald trump all for it. >> it worked very well in new york. it brought the crime rate way down. >> reporter: but clinton knew the facts said otherwise. a spokesman for the police department tweeted "crime kept declining even after the practice was largely stopped, with murders down 80% since

1990." and with a federal judge having ruled against the tactic, clinton hit trump hard. >> stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional. and in part because it was ineffective. >> reporter: to be sure, clinton waded into deep water at times too. at one point, for example, insisting she never flip-flopped over the transpacific trade deal. >> you called it the gold standard of trade deals. you said it's the finest deal you've ever seen. >> no. >> reporter: she does not support it now. but listen to her back in 2012. >> this tpp sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free transparent fair trade. >> reporter: still, trump strayed from the facts more often. on iraq -- >> i did not support the war in iraq. >> reporter: but listen to him with howard sten in 2002. >> are you for invading iraq? >> yeah, i guess so. you know, i wish it was -- i wish the first time it was done

correctly. >> reporter: on women. clinton insisted trump is -- >> someone who has said pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers. who has -- >> i never said that. >> reporter: but he did in 2004. >> the fact is it is an inconvenience for a person that is running a business. >> reporter: and on climate change. >> donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the chinese. i think it's real. >> i did not -- i did not. >> scientists say -- >> i did not say that. >> reporter: but there it is in a trump tweet from 2012. global warming was created by and for the chinese. although trump took a worse beating than clinton from fact checkers following this debate, the question is how much does that matter? after all, in this election polls have consistently shown voters don't really trust either one of them. anderson? >> tom, thanks. a lot to discuss. joining me now cnn senior political commentator and former obama senior adviser david axelrod.

also cnn senior political analyst and former presidential adviser david gergen. first of all, david axelrod, do you think either candidate moved the needle significantly last night? or even moved the needle just in terms of poll numbers. >> the nature of our politics is that there are large blocs of vote that are really set and so there isn't a lot of movability within the electorate. i think two things happened. one is i think donald trump failed to do what he needed to do in terms of giving particularly these college-educated white voters who are key to his success a sense that he has the temperament and has the mastery of substance that he needs to be president. i think she also may have given some more encouragement tho these younger voters who have been flaking off to the third parties. so she could pick up some votes there. but i don't look for massive changes in the vote as a result of this debate. >> david, do you see donald trump altering the way he prepares for the next debate based on this debate?

>> he sure should. he might actually practice. and i think that would make a major difference. i think what we have seen in stark terms here in the last few days is that the professionalism of the clinton campaign is beginning to make a difference. >> that's what we saw last night? >> yes, that's what we saw last night. and very importantly, that's what we've been seeing today. i agree with david. we don't yet know whether blocs of voters have been moved. we'll have to wait for polls later in the week. but what we do know is the dynamics of the race are changing. and he went from a bad night last night to a terrible hangover today. with the momentum changing and the clinton team going on offense. and today he had one of the worst days of his campaign. he was just being pummeled left and right today. and what -- >> which he made worse by continuing to talk about alicia machado. >> there's a pattern to this, though. after the democratic convention when the conclusion was that the democrats had had a much stronger convention and he had been beaten up, he went on a long sort of downward skeen in

which he had one bad story after another, bad story in which he -- of his own creation. and the question is whether he can handle this debate and the aftermath of this debate in a way that doesn't deepen his problems. >> what's really striking to me, and you'll have a chance to miss machado here in a few minutes, is we now know that this seems to have been planned by the clinton people well before the debate. she gave an interview to cosmo magazine some days ago, got the pictures all ready, so they could publish it today. what were they thinking about? this is going to become a big story today. >> hillary clinton almost didn't get it into the debate. it seems like she kind of shoehorned it in the last minute. >> she had a strategy. you can see it from the moment she arrived to unsettle donald trump. she raised what we know is a hot button for him, the fact that he was given money by his father to start his businesses. and you could see her systematically trying to unravel

him. and by the end of the debate she had succeeded. >> after the first president obama debate in 2012 i understand -- where he did not do well, and last night you were saying you knew within the first ten minutes of that debate it was not going well at all. i understand you actually showed -- is it true you that you showed him videotape of what specifically wasn't working and that that helped? >> there's no doubt. we always reviewed tape with him. but he needed a whole different approach. he had the wrong approach to that debate. i think he would say that. and he needed to approach it in a much different way. these debates are -- they're not trials of fact. they're not like a courtroom proceeding. they're not a press conference. they're theatrical in nature. and you have to plan carefully how you're going to deal with each question and the next debate was a town hall meeting as the next debate will be between these two. so there's the blocking

associated with that as well, how you move around the stage. >> and how you relate to other people. >> which is going to be very important. neither of them were particularly evocative last night in terms of talking about people. here they're going to have to face people and talk to them about their problems. i think this could favor her in that this isn't donald trump's longsuit, but we'll see. >> it gives her an opportunity to relate to people emold-fashionedly, empathically in a way she has not before. but one of the big questions overhanging this debate is she seems to be trying to goad him into bringing up bill in the second debate. >> interesting. >> and it looks like -- >> that would be a huge mistake. >> it would be a huge mistake. >> we'll see what happened. david geringen and david axelrod, thank you very much. coming up just as david noted i'm going to speak with former miss universe alicia machado who's now in the milled of the presidential election. she says trump called her miss piggy and miss housekeeping. just today trump talked about her weight again. she joins me next. "is that credit karma again?"

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- so that's very, very important for us. she's the former beauty pageant winner who's now in the middle of the conversation about who should be the president of the united states. i'll speak with alicia machado in just a moment. but first a quick reminder of the backstory. watch this from last night's

debate. >> and one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. he loves beauty contests. supporting them and hanging around them. and he called this woman miss piggy. then he called her miss housekeeping because she was latina. donald, she has a name. >> where did you find -- >> her name is alicia machado -- >> trump of course is not apologizing or even letting up on the idea that ms. machado may or may not have gained weight 20 years ago. here's what he said today on fox news. >> i know that person. that person was a miss universe person. and she was the worst we ever had. the worst. the absolutely worst. she was impossible. and she was a miss universe contestant and ultimately a winner who they had a tremendously difficult time with as miss universe. >> did not know that story. >> she was the winner.

and she gained a massive amount of weight. and it was a real problem. we had a real problem. >> and alicia machado joins me now. thanks so much for being with us. first of all, were you aware that secretary clinton was going to bring you up in the debate last night? >> no. hi. hello. how are you? >> i'm good. how are you? >> i can't believe i'm in this show with you. >> well, i'm happy you're here. >> thank you. and no, it was a big surprise for me. and supporting her campaign. and for -- because -- because i'm a latin. i'm a latin worker. i'm a latin mom. i'm a latin businesswoman. i'm a latin actress. i'm not -- i'm not miss universe

anymore. that happened 20 years ago. and the only reason then i want to share my story with mr. trump is because now i'm a u.s. -- an american, u.s. citizen, and i feel really proud for that. i have american daughter, because my daughter, she born here. and that is my reason. because i know this person very well -- >> let me ask you about -- about what happened. before i do that, though, donald trump this morning said that you were, quote, the absolute worst, and that you had gained what he called a massive amount of the weight. were you surprised that he didn't back down from this today or apologize? that he continued to talk about this? >> yes, it's ridiculous. because he used this distraction. the point is, that happened 20 years ago.

that is not important now. i know what i left with him. and he knows, too. and he was really aggressive. he was really rude. he was a bad person with me. and that is the story that i need to share. >> when you said -- >> for my community. >> when you said -- >> we can't accept -- we can't accept more insults for my latin community. no more. no more insults for the women. >> you said that he had told you -- >> i know very well mr. trump. >> you said that he had called you -- >> and i can see the same person that i met 20 years ago. >> so 20 -- >> and that is -- >> so take me back. in what circumstance did he -- because the trump campaign is denying that he called you miss piggy or miss housekeeping.

you're saying point blank he said that to your face? >> yes. all the time. and i share a lot of time with him in the office, in the events. maybe now, maybe now he remember me. but i think he didn't remember me maybe after last night, you know, because i was a really good miss universe. i did it maybe 100 campaigns. and publicity around the world. i never lost any contract for that over make a weight that i win. and he's using that as a distraction. the point is, no more abuse for the girls.

no more violence for the women. >> there was a time -- >> we are an amazing country and you know this is a really natural moment for me. nobody are paying me for this. i'm supporting mrs. clinton for my ideas. it's my responsibility. and after 20 years, maybe i need to share my story with this person. because i can't believe that he could be a possibility. >> there was a time back then when he had you work out in front of a room full of reporters and he gave an interview that we just showed earlier where he said that you -- that you liked to eat. i think at one point he called you an eating machine. what was going through your mind

that day when you're in that room, in front of him and all of these reporters taking pictures of you working out? >> in that moment i was in my 19 years old. and you know, i had my self-esteem on the floor. i -- you know, it was the most horrible moment that some girl can live. and you know that i forgot that moment. i forgot a lot of moments. and i have now my career, after 20 years. and i know i'm a big voice from the latin community. and in these elections our vote will be great, will be powerful. we have that power.

and for that reason i'm trying to share this bad experience that i had with this person. >> the trump campaign gave a statement to cnn today saying that your claims are, quote, totally baseless and unsubstantiated. what's your response to that? >> well, all that pictures and all that videos and all that things are on the website. are on the web. in the world web. and the people know me. a lot of people know me. and it's not important what happened 20 years ago. i know what happened. and i had a lot of moments with him, between just him and me. and that was really rude for me. but, you know, now, he will use

all that things to try to make a distraction. but the message is really clear. no more abuse for the women. >> let me -- >> can't be somebody that don't have any respect for the girls. that is my point. and for that reason, you know, i'm supporting mrs. clinton and i believe in his politics plans, in her plans for our community. >> let me ask you -- >> and i believe in her. >> you said that the trump campaign will try to discredit you. there are reports that trump surrogates tonight have been referencing and pointing to on cnn and elsewhere about an incident in 1998 in venezuela, where you were accused of driving a getaway car from a murder scene. you were never charged with

this. the judge in the case also said you threatened to kill him after he indicted your boyfriend for the attempted murder. i just want to give you a chance to address these reports that the trump surrogates are talking about. >> he can say whatever he wants to say. i don't care. you know, i have my past. of course, everybody has. everybody has a past. and i'm not a saint girl. but that is not the point now. that moment in venezuela was wrong, was another speculation about my life, because i'm a really famous person in my country, because i'm an actress there. and in mexico, too. and he can use whatever he wants to use. the point is, that happened 20 years ago. he was really rude with me.

he was -- he tried to destroy my self-esteem. and now i'm a voice in the latin community. that is the point. he can say whatever he wants to say. i don't care. i'm in this moment in a great moment in my life and i have a very clear life. and i can -- and i can show my taxes. >> lastly, donald trump has said that he will, and i quote, be the best for women if elected. i'm wondering, what do you -- what do you think when you hear that? >> well, of course, he don't -- he doesn't want a woman. he's -- i -- i believe and i

think this person, he think our exist a second class of people. and somebody like that can't be a president. you understand me, what i want to say? >> i think our viewers do. >> that somebody believe then everybody are down, maybe you are not in my style, you are not in my level. and somebody like that can't be a president. it's -- this country is beautiful. i love this country. i don't want to have some misogynic president. i have a daughter. and she's growing up in this country. and she has the same rights.

than some guy too. i want my daughter, then in the future she can -- she can receive the same salaries. she needs to have the same rights than the guys has. >> alicia -- >> that is my opinion. >> alicia machado, i appreciate talking to you, thank you very much, and congratulations on being an american citizen. >> thank you very much and -- [ speaking spanish ]. >> muchos gracias. thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, none of trump's past statements about women seem to make that much difference to some of his supporters. will this one be any different? we'll have that conversation, next. game show. and everyone knows me for discounts, like safe driver and paperless billing. but nobody knows the box behind the discounts. oh, it's like my father always told me -- "put that down. that's expensive." of course i save people an average of nearly $600,

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before the break we just heard from former miss universe alicia machado, who says trump called her miss piggy when she gained weight after winning one of his pageants at age 19 and publicly humiliated her. trump is on tape telling howard stern in the '90s that she was an "eating machine." just today, trump repeated that she had gained a, quote, massive amount of weight, and it was, quote, a real problem. another problem for trump on this is a comparative lack of support among women. with me now cnn chief political analyst gloria borger, chief political correspondent dana bash, political strategist angela rye and trump supporter kayleigh mcenany.

it's interesting, gloria, the trump campaign is putting forward some news reports which we haven't been able to confirm yet, but doesn't seem like she's -- >> denying. >> i put the question to miss machado, she said she's not a saint girl and everybody has had a past. not everyone's driven a getaway car or threatened a judge. but -- >> not that we talk about. >> not that we talk about. but it's interesting. >> speak for yourself. >> she basically just sort of says, look, people have a past but this past is what happened. >> she said they can say whatever they want to say, with that hand movement. but i think that she didn't deny it. and then she continued to go on and say her piece, which is that she felt insulted. she felt belittled. she was a 19-year-old who had no self-esteem and she said it was the most horrible moment a girl can have. the more she talks about it, it's not good for donald trump with women. she is not perfect. she does have a checkered past, obviously.

but i do think that she was very clear about her message, which is that he was rude and a bad person. >> it's interesting, you know, we talked about this, kayleigh, and you said it wasn't a great idea for donald trump to continue to talk about it because it allows the story to continue today. he was clearly asked about it. i don't think he brought it up independently. but this is not -- this is the last thing donald trump needs, just in terms of reaching out to women voters. >> exactly. and you know, you see the way that his mind is working on this. he's trying to explain it from the business perspective. because, i mean, i'm guessing she had some kind of clause in her contract, even if she didn't, her job was to be, you know, to be a pageant winner. and he's approaching it from the idea that, you know, that his -- that his winner, who was supposed to go around and be the person to represent miss -- somebody who's a pageant winner, who's supposed to look good, did not anymore. but not taking into account the

fact that not just a woman, but also a father of a young girl, the mother of a young girl, people who are already concerned about society and what society says to and about young women, about how they look, about how calling someone miss piggy and so forth, about how that makes people feel, which feeds into the ad that the hillary clinton campaign already has up and so forth. so he doesn't take it to the next step in his mind about what the effect is going to be. >> she said she didn't expect -- didn't know that hillary clinton was going to do this. it certainly seemed that hillary clinton knew she was going to do this or wanted to get this in. because they've been able to roll out this commercial today, there was an article about it. it doesn't seem like this was all just a -- it just popped up. >> yeah, this definitely wasn't happenstance. and i think, frankly, the video was rolled out right after the debate last night. impeccable timing. and it is the most compelling advertising work that hillary clinton has this election. i would argue this is the best

political ad of this election. it's compelling. whether or not this woman has a past or not or how checkered it is, it doesn't matter. she is talking about this man who wants to be the commander in chief for all citizens. this is someone who belittled her, who called her miss piggy, miss housekeeping, an eating machine. this is someone who likes to eat. and he said today, "to that i will plead guilty." and he's right. and what that resulted in for her was anorexia, bulimia, perhaps even the bad judgment to drive a getaway car, if that's what that was -- >> he's denying the housekeeping and i assume the miss piggy -- >> and maybe he is denying it. but let's be honest in saying that donald trump definitely has a selective memory. so maybe he doesn't -- >> okay, so we're going to take the word of someone who just on national tv was asked if she told a federal judge that she would kill him, she just said, well, everyone has a past. we're going to take her word? i find that very hard to believe. >> i don't. >> not only that, you know who i do believe, i believe miss usa, tara connor -- >> but just again for the

record, she was never charged or indicted or found guilty -- >> there wasn't enough evidence. >> she was just asked on national television about threatening the life of a federal judge, and she said, everyone has a past. it's well documented. the ap reported on it -- >> she also said it was wrong. it wasn't -- >> the a.p. reported on it. the economist reported on it. she in my mind just admitted it on air when -- >> she didn't. >> -- she said the past is the past. but i remember miss usa tara connor who was threatened to remove her title for being caught with drugs and donald trump fought to keep her in that place. he likewise fought to keep alicia machado in her place when the miss usa board wanted to remove her. that is well documented as well. he likewise, when miss wisconsin was -- had an incurable disease, wrote her a handwritten letter and took care of her and her mexican-american son. he has a well-documented history of taking care of these women, fighting for them to stay in their place -- i'm going to look at past -- >> why, when he did his interview this morning, why didn't he say that? why didn't he say that --

because he continued to say oerk it's a problem. and he fed the perception that hillary clinton put out there last night. >> literally "to that i will plead guilty" is literally what he said. and i think the bigger problem is, whether or not you can argue that he fought to keep her in place. he said, it was either termination or this. i pick this. talking about humiliating her in terms of tons of reporters. as she worked out in a gym. >> and we'll get back to the discussion we had before. but when you look at that press conference with the workout and all the rest, it's demeaning. >> absolutely. >> i don't think so. >> absolutely, it's demeaning. >> she said herself -- she said it was the lowest moment -- >> when why did she do it? >> a 19-year-old. >> a big part of that is promoting -- >> but she's a 19-year-old, she's not a citizen of the this country, she's here to work for the miss universe pageant, she's from venezuela, and donald trump, a powerful person, tells you to go and do this, you're telling me as a 19-year-old that

that's not a burden? >> miss usas all the time do events promoting physical fitness. i watched that video, and if you watch the video, what you see is her hugging donald trump, her smiling. why is it that now 20 years -- >> under duress! >> why is it now 20 years later, she admitted in that interview, now was the time to bring this out, 20 years later when donald trump decided to run for president. >> angela, you can -- >> she finally has courage. she has her citizenship. >> she has a spotlight. >> let her answer. let angela answer. >> let me answer anderson's question. the question is, why did she do it now? she has her citizenship, she has a community to speak up for. she said in the interview, i'm a big voice for the latin community. we have power. she wanted people to be empowered. and that's why she did that. >> we've got to leave the discussion here. gloria borger, dana bash, angela rye, kyle yooeg mcayleig. thanks. even some of those close to donald trump admitting that his debate performance not what they were hoping for. how much do the debate performances matter? dana bash takes a look, coming up next.

even some trump supporters admit they were disappointed by his debate performance. this does not mean he can't bounce back. >> reporter: even some of donald trump's closest allies admit this was not the performance they were hoping for.

>> they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. >> beknomoaning the way hillary clinton got under his skin. >> who gave it that? >> reporter: as he played much of the debate on defense. >> he thinks climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the chinese. >> reporter: disappointed trump advisors are trying to take solace in history, candidates that rebounded. you only have to go back a few years. president obama bombed in his first debate against mitt rom y romney. obama used it as wakeup call and came back strong. ronald reagan's first debate performance in his reelection bid was also a flop. >> an income tax on this same

amount of money. >> reporter: his answer meander meandered, feeding into the notion that he was too old for another term in the white house. but reagan recovered with debate number two with a prepared line delivered perfectly. >> i am not going to exploit for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> reporter: still, obama and reagan were already in the white house and didn't have as much to prove to voters as trump who is a novice. his primary goal was to use the debate stage to sell himself as presidential. team trump can look back to 19 88 for evidence that first debate don't always matter most. there was a great first debate against george hw bush. . >> governor, if kitty were raped and murdered, would you favor a death penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, and i think you

know i've opposed the death penalty during all of my life. i don't see any evidence that it's a deterrent. >> reporter: that policy response instead of a human one fed bush's narrative that he was weak. >> i also have a much better temperament. >> reporter: reinforcing trump's trouble spots is what trump source say they their candidate did with repeated moments like this. >> i have a feeling by the end of this evening i'm going to be blamed for everything ever happened. >> why not? >> reporter: ban dana bash. >> we have a long time national correspondent. he wrote a fascinating cover story, who will win, the debates and the election. james joins me tonight. there were no incumbents on the stage. secretary clinton clearly had a much more political track

record. does that make it harder for him to make up ground in the next debates? >> i think it does. and there's another factor. there was another piece that just played. for those able to recover, president obama, and ronald reagan, all of them were really experienced political operators. ro rond reagan was a performer. they had teams who they listened to. the question is donald trump, who is entirely new to politics and gives to sign of being able to listen or wanting to listen to coaching, whether he is able to make the adjustment that other did after their first disappointing first debates. >> david axelrod said they showed president obama video tapes of what went wrong, the moments that went wrong, and he pivoted from that. he learned from that. >> right, and all the other people took the debate as a really serious thing. they trained for it and have practice segs.

they watch themselves on tape. it's not a pleasant thing to do, and there's no evidence trump has done it. if he's able to recover and learn from the next debate, you'll have an upclose view, and that will be an impressive sign of his growth. we haven't seen that from him before. >> i kept thinking of your piece in the atlantic. you talked in that piece about watching a debate with the sound off. and the way cnn was broadcasting it with the reaction shots of both of them on the screen at the same time, always, you really could get a sense of, again, maybe it was hillary clinton was completely practiced on it, but she was trying to smile. she had different emotions at drc different times, but it was thought out, and she knew she was on camera the whole time. donald trump didn't act like he was on camera. >> indeed, and in addition to hillary clinton knowing she was on camera, she also knew from all of her life in public office

that it's harder to be a woman on the public stage than it is to be a man, and donald trump, i think he's gotten a long so far in the year and a half in politics being mr. natural. we may have come against the limit. >> you wrote about the simplicity of language donald trump used. it's a fourth grade reading rev level. it's about the value of simplici simplicity. do you think that was the case last night? >> as we discussed before, there's a way in which seventh of eighth grade language, if they parsed the discussion right now, i bet it would be in the seventh or eighth grade. that's what most news is. i think in the primaries, he was able to do a simple third grade build a wall, we don't win anymore, we lose, we're going to win with trump. i think trying to stretch it out over two minutes of answers was

harder for him than in the primaries. >> it's interesting. when you read transcripts of what he said, i'm doing that as research, when you see it on the page, it doesn't make the same sense it can make when he's saying. when you see the breakdown, you see the structure and it's startling adt times. >> the same thing was true with bill clinton. if you read the transcripts, somehow they wouldn't make the sense they did in person, because there's an in person performance still. i think with donald trump it's starker and you see a stream of consciousness looking for what will appeal in realtime and going to that and coming back to build a wall, we don't win. it's a different sort of environment in the debates. >> jim, thank you for being with us. we'll be right back. g is a skil. very gently release the clutch. -okay that was too fast. so is managing your credit. get experian creditworks basic

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