embassies around five cities around the world. thanks to all of you for being apart of my program this week, i will see you next week. good morning, it is time for reliable sources. our weekly look of the story behind the story. team trump verses, well, the entire media. h his lying is getting worse. we'll ask two experts and this question, do newspaper endorsements still matter. we'll look at the red states papers speak out. and plus, shawn hahnty, he was the subject of the joke on "snl" last night. first, lets yield back the curtains on the first surprise

of october. trump's taekxes are the story o the day. trump's tax record, he could have avoided paying taxes for nearly two decades. this story landed on a huge impact on the front page of the newspaper. how did the "times" get a hold of these records. suzanne pulled out a pile of mail and spotted an unusual return of address and it says "trump tower." she was astonished and she was not sure to believe it. here to tell us is suzanne craig. you rerecei you received the voenvelope in e male and what did it tell us? >> it was a large number with a negative in front of it and it was his net operating loss that he had rocked up enough losses over the years to essentially moving that forward into future

years and be able to reduce his taxable income to zero so he would not have to pay tax potentially. we have not seen the future returns to see what he did it in but it gave him a billion dollars of leeway which he could have income that he would not have to play taxes on. >> you he may not pay federal income taxes for many years. >> you could say that you have this number that you can carry forward. it is safe to say for several of the years he did to a billion dollars sure of his documents were real, what did you do to verify it? >> we got a group of people together and i went over to talk to a colleague of mine who had been working with david barstow. we got a group together and verify what they have and

obviously, there were large concerns that they were not real. we had no sort of solid and where did they come from? >> you thought maybe someone trying to trick you or dupe you. >> they could be very much and that's why we wanted to verify it and do some good, old fashion reporting. >> you reached out to his former accountant basically. >> yes, tax returns are hard to verify, there is only a few people who could vaerify them. david barstow, one of the reporters i worked with went down to see jaock and had a lon discussion and it is legitimate. >> when you see a story like this in the front page o f the time, weeks of work had to check it out. let me check to see what fox news say about this. >> a bold news trying to take down donald trump claiming that he had not paid taxes in years.

the evidence and how they got it raised a lot of questions this morning. >> raising a lot of questions. so fox had some doubts about your sources but they're saying that you are trying to take down donald trump, is that what you are doing? >> it is an incredible important issue, there is pressure on him to release his tax returns. i think it is called reporting, it is simple as that. >> you think fox does not understand that? >> we are doing our job and part of that is to look things like donald trump tactics and defi defining whether he has paid taxes or not. it is an important issue and that's what we do. >> there was a legal threat before you published this story, i have been asking the trump foundation if they'll follow through. are you expecting legal action. i don't think it is a crime to check your mailbox and that's what we did and we did some

reporting. they told us they may sue and we are comfortable with the story and went ahead with it. >> are you sitting on more documents. we are doing a lot of reporting around this. we are going to keep ongoing. >> you have more document than besides the three. >> maybe a no comment. >> the return address was trump tower, that does not mean they came from trump tower, does it? >> no, it does not because it could have came from any number of sources. >> do you know who? >> again, no comment on that one. >> i appreciate your willingness to talk about the story and make us more curious of what is come next. suzanne, good to see you. >> here to talk more and what it means for the rest of the campaign, let me bring in tim graham and john. >> let me ask you, john, do you expect any legal action from trump as a result of the story

and keeping in mind his organization did threaten to sue before the time it was published. >> he can file whatever suit he liked but he does not have much grounds to stand on. if you look at trump's history of failed first amendment lawsuit from tim o'brien or the chicago tribune where he sued them describing trump tower is lousy. these suits get thrown out of court. it is an intimidation tactic but it can have a chilling e if hff. >> tim, do you see something in this story that feels wrong or off base. >> we have all kinds of anonymous sources. this story just calling it plain reporting is wrong. >> what do you mean anonymous sourc sources? >> they published the documents from 1995 from the newspaper.

>> they are on the front page today saying he benefited from the vast destruction. this newspaper had the restrain from a flesh of eating zombies they announced on the front page where their job is to take him down and repeated editorial of how he needs to be defeated. >> the editorial pages produced way upstairs and the newsroom is downstairs. there are differences between them. john, do you want to chime in? >> lets have a simple reality check here. i understand that so many historically republican papers have had the first time of history -- this story is sourced not only documents but end pd up through good reporting and reaching out to the accountant who filed them. the trump campaign is notably

not denied them and simply threati threatening lawsuits. >> the new york times is pure partisan spin and the story admits itself it is fragments. this newspaper is trying to intimidate trump in releasing his tax returns. they're out to get him defeated. >> donald trump notably in january of 2012 encouraged mit romney to release his taxes for reasons of transparencies. and hillary clinton never violated a standard? a story about hillary clinton and gold mman, i don't remember the networks going on saying bomb shells or stories that's

going to damage hillary clinton. everybody is out to destroy trump. >> when did the movement started lo loving the vicktims so much? >> again, i am looking at right now and pulling it and i was searching the keywords because i want to make sure i find it and find it. i don't see it referenced from the hurricane as you are mentioning. >> i am saying nobody believes when they are looking at this information that they're don partisan or disinstance jou journalist. everybody understands that the new york times declared in the front page, we are not here to be fair this year, we are here to beat this man, they are suggesting that he's a threat like hitler and sudan hue ssan.

that's the levels of threats that we are seeing. >> h is tax reforms have failed. rooted and documents that are there in black and white. i know that's uncomfortable for people with agendas. >> well, you don't have one, john. you are as much of a republican as lester holt to come here to say that you are not ideology. >> lets take a break here, both of you, stick around for me, please. we are dissecting the debate and this feeling of team trump verses the entire media that tim is talking about. we'll be right back after a quick break. becayou'll never forget them. join marriott rewards and we'll help you find your moments with our diverse collection of hotels and resorts around the world.

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. donald trump says so much that he overwhelms news cycle. we really cannot keep up as if he goes on media benders with rallies and twreeets. we are the one that is canterburily stand up straight. last weekend, all the newsrooms concluded the same thing. yes, trump lies la times and all times used the "l "word.

no one people doubted him when he was complaining of the microphone. it turns out there were issues that regarded trump's audio. it did not affect the tv broadcast though. this weekend, trump is taking a truth that there were audio issue and spinning it into a conspiracy theory saying that tit is rigged against him. >> in a new post debate polls that came out, the google poll had us leading hillary clinton by two-points nationwide and that's despite the fact that google search engine was s suppressing the bad news of clinton. >> google did not conduct a poll. number two, google's algorithm

is not biassed against him. lets dispel of one more trump's missed. he tweeted of all the recent stories about his aids shaping up and study for the next debate. any time you see a story about me and my campaign, sources say, do not believe it. there are no sources, it is just made up lies. he says if we don't name on our sources, the sources don't exist. this is untrue. it is flatly untrue. it is actually troubling to say because cnn and new york times and all these outlets have important sourcing. bottom line is these false claims by trump has serious consequences. back joining me, tim, i believe

your position is anonymous sources are not acceptable or not appropriate to be using for stories? >> anonymous sources are for important information, when you have information, you cannot get any other way, we see too often in political and news media today as i suggested in the previous segment is using mo anonymous sources to say nasty things. like i cannot say nasty things about other republicans because they may hire me later this year. what you are saying when -- this person does not have androg age. ru n you are not going to tend to truce your anonymous sources. >> john, what do you make of this it is been a theme for 15 or 16 months. it seems to be heightened in the

recent weeks. >> he's been clear that attacking the media is a core strategy by his campaign and expressed by surrogates like newt gingrich and others in particular. he simultaneously craves media attention and attacks media when it attempts to hold him accountable which is our job. >> part of the reasons of trump's line of attack works for reporter -- the rise of partisan media which allows people to segregated themselves in separate political realities. that's a angelina jollarger and problem. in the long run, it is about trying to diminish the idea of truth itself. that's dangerous to democracy. every one is entitled to their opinions but not their own facts. that's what is being modelled here by the republican nominee. >> donald trump praised lester

holt but later in the week, he had some words for the moderator. lets look at what he said. >> when i first did it, -- when i reviewed it, i saw a lot of commentary because a lot of people thought he was terrible. i realized he was much tougher on me than he was on hillary. it was a day and night. >> why do you think trump is bringing this up repeatedly. >> it is a terrible analogy. if lester holt was referencing a football game, he would have gotten thrown out. i think the "saturday night live" skit i would do. it would be end of top gun where he lands and everybody applause applauds him. >> he heard the lesson and he

obviously did this in a way that -- >> it is not lester holt when donald trump lies more than clinton on the stage >> but the whole assumption of liberal media is hillary never lies. >> who's saying that? >> the fact the matter is, hillary is, why is her trust worthy level is so low? because people watched her over decades and lied about everything. including i gasped for air and i had no idea that he cheated on me with monica lewinsky. >> a couple of things here. >> as close as we are going to get to an objective tallying of this year's sum in total. we know donald trump is not a hyped man. he admits freely and engages in

the hypbole. and so it comes back to partisan media and the role it plays. it is the job of journalists to insist on the facts base to base and it is our jobs to call out lies on the one hand or the other. those of you on the side of partisan media who say that the explicit beating of biassed main tropical storm hermine over the years can be corrected by explicit biassed. now it is a fundamental under your tricks. >> knobbiwhen you sat in the st and you all made fun of dick cheney's heart trouble and how you would take his heart. >> go back and look at your own

clips. you will see that i defended cheney which is ancient history. there is a need for a place like you to call out bias on the left. you sacrifice your real credibility because you ar only going to focus on one side of the problem and that per ppetuas the polarization. we'll report without fear favor and you have explicit favors. >> the daily does not. that's why your crediblilitlili fails. >> i want people to know what they are and what they stand for. gentlemen, thank you both for being here. >> his essay on what news needs to do now in the weeks ahead of the election. check it out on cnnmoney.com.

>> they're here for a segment that you have to see right after this. sick of getting gouged for limited data? introducing t-mobile one. one price, all unlimited for everyone. get 4 lines for $35 per month each with unlimited 4g lte data. switch today.

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a huge impact in my life. welcome back to rh"reliable sources," i am brian stelter. this is an example of trump seeking an alternate reality. all week long, he cited these online surveys showing that he won the debate by a huge margins. he tweeted a bunch of them. these are not really polls at all. he's misleading you when he says they are polls.

it is informal. watch this. >> you know those are bogus. >> you know these are bogus and they're beyond scientific and you have evidence that they are computer program that is help refresh, all you have to do is enter your history and they're not real again. >> the energy of the enthusiasm of this race is all with mr. trump. >> the vasurvey shows enthusias but nothing more than that. >> kristen anderson and republican pollster and margmargio margio merrel. >> you are a democratic pollster. i want to start with you and get both of your assessments with

this. why should people not take to mean that trump won the debate in the eyes of the american people. >> there are a lot of outlets experiencing with online surveys and a lot of great surveys out there. the issue is whether or not you have a representative sample or asking poo eople to participate people are going on themselves to participate. when people go online and take one of these quizzes at these various websites, you don't know what kind of samples you are getting. that's different than making sure you have a poll sample that looks like america. >> these are vulnerable to manipulation meaning people could vote thousands of times if they want to. kristen, let me ask you as a prominent pollster, should ka y

should kellyanne conway steps into knock off these bs polls. >> you have a deep understanding of how the data works and what it means. there is always this sort of debate about how much do you put yourself in the position of, sometimes people want to shoot the messenger. if you try too hard to get folks serve statistically correct and understanding the data in a different way. a candidate like trump may just bulk and say he does not want to listen to you anymore. trying to keep and making sure that he is still listening to you so that you can try to influence him if you are on the inside. i certainly want kellyanne to come out and say yes, these polls are wrong because certainly she knows it is wrong. >> they're going to keep on doing this and posting these surveys.

part of the problem is news outlets giving them the credible to these incredible polls. kristen, do you see democrats doing the same kind of misleading things with polls? >> you know i think the big story right now is still the trump campaign with this stuff. trump's brand is all about being a winner. if he's down in the polls or anywhere or if there is a perception that he does not won, that under cores of what he is trying to sell to the public. >> are we all paying too much to the attention of the real polls that are out there of the real poll data about this election. >> it is funny to say as a pollster, maybe we are paying too much attention to polls. we talked to pollsters on our show, well, it is like the game is always on 24 hours a day and people want to check the score.

the thing to remember is that there is a lot more to polling and understanding public opinion or horse race questions. prior the polling or internal polls or practitioner, we do a lot more than testing the horse race, it is really hearing of what people think of the country. there is a lot more than just who's up two-points or odown on. >> what should viewers focus on and keep in mind as we hear about them all the time? >> follow the trends and follow the trends. it can be easy to see an individual poll comes out that that i thi change the narrative, i always encourage the people look at how the polls change month to month or cbs' polls. look at those trends within polls rather than panicking and seems to change the game

>> all right, kristen and margy, thank you very much for being here and cutting through these clutters. >> do check out their weekly broadcasts the pollsters and just google it. >> the seasonal opener of "snl." maybe donald trump should be thankful for it. we'll explain why after the break. the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier we're here to make healthier happen.

monday was the most watched debate on american history tv. it was the first debate references to rosie o' donnel and howard stone and shawn hannity. i was against the war, ask anyone in the world named shawn hannity. >> you told shawn on his show and there is proof? >> no, i told him in private. >> no, it was just me and shawn

late at night and i leaned over and i whispered in his ears, shawn, i am against the war in iraq and the next thing i knew that i was kissing shawn hannity. >> lets talk about "snl" and trump with mark and our critic from the baltimore suns. >> what did you like and what disappointed you with the opening of the debate. >> nothing really disappointed me, brian, the most interesting thing to me about that opening was i remember when i first saw tina fay and sara palin, i had to put down my notebook and enjoy it as a fan. baldwin was good and the make up is great and all of that worked.

then i started thinking what changed? >> in 2008, late night comedy and particularly in "snl" was saying the things that mainstream journalism could not say that palin is one of the dopest and goofiest candidates that we'll ever have and she's a disgrace if she's elected. we could not say that and now everybody from editorial writers to the people of the campaign trail are saying all things about trump that reveals in baldwin's take on him and that's a big change in the media because -- it is not anything that "snl" did, i thought their weekend updates was really funny in terms of nailing how disappointing each of the candidates to many americans. >> well, this gives to something like the conservative like tim graham are saying, they feel all

the media is a singular thing that could be summed up in a word is trying to take down trump. do you feel there is some truth to that, that the idea that most journalists are afraid or concerned by donald trump as president? >> you know i don't think that "saturday night live" or the media is trying to take down trump. i do think that there is, you know, a kind of way of thinking that many members o f the media shared and it does creep into the comedy and the certainly commentary and sometimes it creeps into news story, yes, i think it does. >> is that a bias or a reaction from when ever it senses a threat to reality. >> we can look at this as mainstream media calling out

lies and used the word "lie." that's a break from what is done in the past. you know i think it is fine to call what it is. >> when it is very clear when he says google of suppressing news. >> what about trump's strategy and given a dozen interviews and no other national tv interviews off of fox. do you believe this is a problem for journalists that we cannot directly question trump? >> i don't think it is a problem for journalists and he entitled to try that strategy but i have to tell you something, brian, when i was thinking of sea sean hannity in connection of this, i found the piece of interview of sar a palin and in it he was serving softballs and he never follows up. it looked like it maybe an

executive office building so she would look normal in the setting. it was so pitiful to see the way it was going. last line of my review was look, she could not handle the softball from sean hannity and next week she was supposed to talk to katie couric, maybe she needs to think that. she's so much in the bubble that she cannot deal with the real stuff. you saw this in the debate when trump kept on saying i don't know why the media won't call up sean hannity and i'm siting there and thinking who would cares what he says. >> they would laughed and threw me out the window in the newsroom. he's in that bubble. he's in the fox bubble where he believes that sean hannity can

verify your story and anybody would believe it. he's too far in the bubble and it really hurts him in that debate. sean hannity was a strong woman. >> hannity does not have creditable to it does not matter what he told trump. >> hannity is an arm of the trump campaign who's sort of an island on fox. i don't know the extent to which the fox audience or you know the general public really knows or sees that. i think we have a different view of it and we don't see him as a journalist and i think he actually said that. he does not see himself as a journalist and there are variations on this theme and there are hard news reporters and commentators and hannity in this case is sort of a class itself. >> you know i mean i think even it makes it uncomfortable,

that's what expressed to me that way. i am curious to see how burdock is going to be feeling. >> david and margaret, thank you for being here, up next of the threat over the president's endorsement. >> we are going to talk about that with the editorial page editor of the washington post right after this. mornin'. hey, do you know when the game starts? 11 hours. oh. well, i'm heading back to my room. oh, wi-fi password? super bowl, underscore houston underscore 51, underscore super bowl, backslash 51, backslash houston. got it. (announcer) want to wake up at super bowl 51? all caps. (announcer) enter courtyard's super bowl sleepover contest at courtyard.com for your chance to win.

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a new word this week, disendorsement, that's what several papers are doing. these are not just blue states papers, the dallas morning news and usa today going on saying trump is unfit for presidency and cincinnati saying "it has to

be clinton." she's the only choice that america has. it was a move met with subscription cancellations and alleged death threats. this morning, the new york times is out targeting latino voters and urging them to exercise their rights to vote. that's not all. the washington post this weekend starting a new editorial series aimed at looking at the harm of what trump would do if he was elected. it says this. if you know that donald trump is ignorant and unprepared and bigotty but thinking to vote for him anyway, this editorial is for you. all these papers are making move from trump to clinton. lets talk to fred hyatt, he's joining me this morning from washington. great to see you this morning. >> hi, brian. do you view this as

fundamentally different as for editorial pages like yours and >> i think it is fundamentally different because this election is fundamentally different from anything that any of us have ever known. you know, first i think we should just remind our viewers that what we do on the editorial side is different than the news side. when we're writing our editorials, we're not speaking for the reporters who are covering the campaign or the news side. >> right. >> but on the editorial side, the post already did something which we never did before, which was back in july is write up the nomination of donald trump. we wrote an editorial saying no matter what happens in this campaign, what happens in the debates, we are not going to be able to endorse this republican nominee for president, because we look at him as an

unprecedented danger to the presidency and democracy and in a lot of ways to the world. >> when we hear comments like that, which we're hearing from many corners of the media, do you interpret it as media elites criticizing trump and potentially bolstering him and supporting him among his base which is as opposed to elitism as he is? >> you know, i don't think it's my job to kind of think of what are the politics of what i do. we have an editorial board that is quite diverse ideologically. we're not on one time or the other. over the years, we've endorsed people from both parties. and our job is to give people the arguments as we see it and let them evaluate it. you know, that he had tore yell i referred to back in july was certainly the most read washington post editorial in history. there a lot of people paying attention. i'm sure there are a lot of

people who dismiss it. we don't expect to convince everybody in the world. but what we try to do is present arguments, particularly for people who are still thinking about it that may be useful as they make up their minds. >> trump tweeted over the weekend saying that people are really smart in canceling subscriptions of the dallas and arizona papers and now usa today will lose readers. the people get it. >> well, first, i'd say i admire these papers like "the arizona republic" that are following principle as they see it without regard to what the business consequence might be. i think that's to be respected. in our case, no, we've certainly gained readers. as a newspaper, as a digital publication, we have more readers than we've ever had and that's definitely true for the opinion side and it's definitely true for our editorials. >> let me ask you about

something here at cnn that i'm worried about and other places in the media. 26 mentions of trump this morning and like six mentions of hillary clinton. if you ran the numbers for this hour of cnn, you'd probably find the same thing. do you feel that's a form of bias, that the press is focusing too much on the person who is likely not to be president and not enough on the woman who is, according to polls, to be president? >> i think that's a good question. i mean, we have -- we said in july that we'd continue to run hillary clinton honestly and we have done that he heditorially. so we're covering both. the series that we started this week is aimed at people who, you know, might realize that trump

is -- they might not agree with everything he says but think, how much harm can he do? and we felt that one thing an editorial page can do is be substantive and thoughtful and look at what can a president do unilaterally without courts and congress interfering. i think we have to continue to keep covering both campaigns and we do. >> fred, great to see you this morning. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. i'll be right back with more "reliable sources" in just a moment.

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finally this morning, rhetoric is not overheated, it's fully on fire. and we're all inhaling the smoke. sean hannity said america is on the brink of death. >> i know i'm out on a limb here

and i don't care because it's the right thing to do. you have a choice. america lives or dies in 39 days. that's how i look at it. >> it would be easy to make fun of this. in fact, it would be too easy. there's a straight line from this end of america rhetoric to the rise of trump. there's a straight line from hannity saying america lives or dies straight to the hate that pollutes facebook feeds. don't get me wrong, polarization is polluting all sides of the race. some, not all, but some supporters of clinton are saying stuff they will regret. the more you're paying attention, the more fearful and anxious you probably are. i keep asking myself, what can we in the media do to make things better, not worse. i think it starts with empathy, sympathy. sympathy for the other side, whatever the other side is for you. attempts to listen and build

trust. i know what doesn't help. name-calling, death threats. i want to explore what we can do to help heal some of these wounds. i'm @brianstelter and i'll see you next week. send me a tweet. bombshell, pages from a trump tax return sent to "the new york times" by a secret source. what do they reveal? plus, late night wars. trump mocked on snl. >> i stayed calm just like i promised. it is over. >> as clinton attacks his 3:00 a.m. tweets. >> his latest twitter meltdown is unhinged even for him. and trump launches another wild and unsubstantiated attack. >> i don't think she's loyal to bill, if you want to know the truth. and really, folks, really, why should she be,