alisyn did a good interview with him. you should watch it online. we'll have it up there soon. we have an exclusive interview with vice president joe biden. we ran down to florida. he's trying to help clinton in that state. the polls going back and forth very tight. he was very spicy about this election, why it matters. the case for the middle class. now he also talked about the vp debate and what can happen there. that's tonight. there's your debate clock. only 35 days until election day, only 5 days until the next big presidential debate. let's begin our coverage. we have cnn political director david chalian live in washington. take us through the poll numbers. what do you see? >> the top line from alisyn. 47% to 42%. take a look at where the candidates came from in our last poll. you look here and see hillary clinton grew 4 points. 43% around labor day to 47% now. donald trump lost 3 points, 45% to 42%. there's her new 5-point edge

right there. what's behind it? let's first look at independent voters. there's a fascinating gender divide here. among female independent voters hillary clinton has a 20-point lead. barack obama beat mitt romney among female independent voters by 1 point. hillary clinton significantly out performing obama on that score, 20 point lead among women and trump has a 4 point lead among independent men. let's look at white voters and how they split with their education level. this has been a telling indicator all election season. hillary clinton has a 13 point lead, 50% to 37% among white voters with a college degree. mitt romney beat barack obama among these voters by 14 points. hillary clinton has completely flipped that script. this is the trump base right here. white voters with no college degree. he's got a 21 point lead, 55% to 34% but the key thing to remember here is that in our last poll that was a 44 point lead so hillary clinton has

narrowed that gap. african-american voters, another group that donald trump has been trying to go after here. not making much progress. this is obama level support among the african-american voters. 95% to 5% and very important, take a look at enthusiasm. this is what helps drive what is a likely voter. hillary clinton narrowing the gap. in september 58% of trump voters were very unthese see as stick. only 46% of clinton voters. that was a 12 point lead. now it's a 6 point lead for trump. his voters are still more enthusiastic. hillary clinton used that debate performance to enthuse her base. alisyn? >> david, thanks so much for that. donald trump is digging in on his tax bombshell. saying he, quote, brilliantly used the tax laws to pay as little as possible. hillary clinton said he took from america with both hands. phil mattingly is live tonight.

>> reporter: which is it? is it the angle the clinton campaign will donald trump or is it the opportunity for donald trump to take the issue of his business and spin it as a positive? well, it appears to be both, at least according to the candidates yesterday. take a listen. >> the unfairness of the tax laws is unbelievable. it's something that i've been talking about for a long time. you've heard me talking about it. despite being a very big beneficiary, i must admit. you're more important than my being a beneficiary, so we're going to straighten it out and make it fair for everybody. >> some of his supporters says, well, it just shows he's a genius, that he didn't pay any taxes. well, what kind of genius loses a billion dollars in the first place? >> now, guys, the question becomes who does the -- which candidate do the voters end up siding with on this issue? now trump campaign advisors for the last couple of months when it came to his tax returns and

his unwillingness to show them has said, this isn't a big issue. this isn't something that resonates with our supporters or independents. according to the latest cnn/orc poll says 86% believe candidates have a civic duty to pay taxes. this is certainly something you'll hear hillary clinton repeatedly attack donald trump over in the weeks ahead. the big question is if donald trump can spin this issue, which was a bombshell, no question about it, into his advantage as we get closer to that next debate. chris? >> the question is how deeply under trump's skin does it get every time clinton says what kind of great businessman loses a billion dollars. phil, thank you very much. we've got this opportunity to have an interview with vice president joe biden. he is very exercised about the election. he was banging on what matters for the middle class, why trump is wrong for this country, why he believes clinton is right for the country. here's a taste. >> when you hear about situations where trump says he's

smart for finding ways to use the tax law as is provided, it bothers you? >> i thought it was about making sure you did your part for your country. i grew up in a house where my father used to say -- and he never really made any real money. they'd say, i'm paying this or that in tax money. dad would say, it's a small price to say. since when does somebody who lives at the top of the world in a pent house overlooking the world feel no obligation to pay any federal income tax to support military, education, our foreign policy. since when is that a patriotic thing to do. can you imagine any other president, any other president to ever say that and be proud of that? i can't fathom of it. >> he says the law is what it is and you guys made the law the way it is and he knows how to work the system and that's why he's the right change agent. >> if you notice the change agent proposed, the change agent

is what he's proposing in the tax cut would lock in all of those special interests for real estate folks and cut their taxes even more. this is all about trump. the vast majority of billionaires and multi-millionaires, they pay their taxes. i mean, can you imagine warren buffet saying this? can you imagine steve case saying this? can you imagine any of these guys saying this? it's just offensive. what's it say about all the people here, are they all suckers for paying their taxes because they can't hire a tax lawyer, because they couldn't make significant contributions to try to change the law to benefit themselves? come on, man. it's just not right. >> trump is making headlines for saying that those who avoid pts, post traumatic stress, are strong. those who succumb to it therefore by implication are weak. what does that statement mean to you? >> this is an ignorant man. this guy says things he has no

idea about. he's not a bad man, but his ignorance is so profound, so profound. i had my staff contact the defense department every morning at 6:00 to tell me exactly how many troops are injured, exactly how many troops are wounded because every one matters. it's not 6,700 some. it's 6,753 deaths. not 50, 53. it's 52,419 wounded and the number of people coming home with unseen injuries, post traumatic stress and traumatic brain injury is significantly higher. what's this say about a guy who doesn't have any notion of that? look at what these kids are going through. look at the sacrifices they're making. and look what they go to sleep dreading. i was asked to present a silver star to a young man who had jumped into -- a young commander who jumped into a burning humvee

to pull out his buddy after it exploded and the kid died. he asked me to pin on a star. you know what the kid said to me? i don't want it. i don't want it. he did not live, sir. he did not live, sir. that kid probably goes to sleep every night with a nightmare and this guy doesn't understand any of that? how can he not understand that? how can he be so out of touch? he's not a bad guy, but how can he be so out of touch and ask to lead this country? >> wow. great interview there. we will show more of it as well tonight. senator tim kaine and governor mike pence will face off in the first and only vice presidential debate. what's at stake when they take the stage at longwood university, cnn's sunlen serfaty is live for us. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. both candidates taking a much more consistent, disciplined

approach as they prepare for tonight's debate. certainly that's notable for mike pence who contrary to his own running mate, donald trump at the top of the ticket, seems to have engaged in a traditional, for formal debate prep. they have been studying up, hitting the books. they've been running through full-fledged mock debates using stand-ins for the other opponent. team pence going into tonight top on their mind do they have to play cleanup. mike pence will be facing questions over donald trump's tax returns. team kaine hoping to cash in on a little home field advantage here in virginia tonight. we know they are looking to draw some ideological contrasts with mike pence up there on stage. alisyn, each and every moment so important for both men tonight being this is their first and only debate. >> sunlen, thank you very we'll all be watching obviously very closely. joined now by brian fallen, press secretary for hillary clinton's presidential campaign. good morning, brian. >> good morning.

great to be with you. >> okay. so hillary clinton has been talking about donald trump's taxes ever since "the new york times" had that revelation on saturday night that it is possible that he has not paid income taxes for the last 18 years. the problem, brian, is that many voters thinks it shows his strength, it shows him being crafty, it shows his business acumen. we've talked to a lot of voters this morning as well as over the weekend who don't see this as a negative. let me play some of their sound for you. >> i don't know anybody that checks the box under tax returns and says i want to pay twice as much as i have to. so i don't have a problem with it if it was done legally. he's been audited every year apparently forever. i don't have a problem with it. >> to me it doesn't matter what his tax returns show. it's more about what kind of person he is. politicians are more crooked than business men to me. >> so, brian, you heard them there. they don't have a problem with it. how doubro you know that talkin

about this and taxes isn't actually working for trump? >> well, look, alisyn, i think if we've seen one thing over the course of this campaign is that a lot of donald trump supporters are going to support him no matter what he says. i think with those critical persuadable voters that remain that both campaigns are fighting over, i think they're going to be very troubled by what we learned over the weekend. first of all, we saw the scale of business failures that donald trump endured in the 1990s, something that he's clearly ashamed of. it's probably one of the big reasons why he's been keeping his tax return a secret, but more important than that, he was able to leverage those huge losses, $1 billion almost in one single year, into a huge mother of all tax writeoffs. i think if you look at all the ordinary people that were put out of work with those business failures that trump had in the early 1990s, to see all those contractors that he left holding the bag, i think that shows that he's the embodiment of the

rigged system that he says he'll fix. heads he wins, tails he still wins. so he says he's going to fix this corrupt system, but there's no sign of that. the tax proposals he's putting forward would make this worse and further stacked in favor of people like donald trump. he wants to repeal, for instance, the estate tax which would provide his family with up to another $4 billion in tax savings. so i think this is going to be highly troubling to people the more they learn about it. >> brian, let's talk about some vulnerabilities for hillary clinton. there is new cnn polling that shows weak spots. let's look at the ohio poll, for instance. donald trump is getting 47% to hillary clinton's 42%. are you confident, brian, that hillary clinton can win without ohio? >> well, look, i think that there were a bunch of state polls that came out yesterday. a lot of them had hillary clinton ahead, but in all of them they're tight including ohio. ohio we're very confident in the ground game we built there. we have more than 50 offices

open. she was there yesterday campaigning in akron and doe lead d -- toledo. i think in the last week donald trump has given us more to talk about in terms of who truly represents working class voters in states like ohio. not only did you learn that donald trump went potentially 18 years without paying any income taxes contributing nothing to our first responders, to our military, to our schools, but we also learned yesterday from a new report from "newsweek" his recent developments are made on chinese steel, not u.s. steel. he howls and complains about all of the manufacturing jobs. just like he outsources the production of his clothing lines. we learned he is sucker punching u.s. manufacturing by going to china for his goods and materials that go into his construction projects. so i think that that is something that is going to resound in ohio. if you talk to somebody like

senator brown, they campaign on these issues. i think rob portman would have a hard time defending donald trump's outsourcing practices. >> speaking of working class voters, let's look at another possible point of vulnerability for secretary clinton because our new poll shows that she is struggling with the non-college graduated white voters. she gets 37 -- let me look at this. she gets -- it's on the screen. she gets 34% to his 55%. so, brian, why don't you think that she's speaking a message that is more -- that would resonate with them more effectively? >> well, there's no question that that's one of the last b t bastians for the group. hillary clinton is out performing barack obama and is out performing at a historic

level when it comes to white voters with college degrees. i agree we are fighting over -- donald trump and hillary clinton are fighting over those voters that you're talking about. that's why she was in ohio yesterday talking about these issues. i think at the end of the day when voters compare hillary clinton's plans, which include wanting to raise the minimum wage. donald trump is against that. wanting to make investments in infrastructure, wanting to actually deal with this problem of outsourcing as opposed to donald trump who relies on chinese made steel and aluminum for his projects, i think they're going to find that hillary clinton is the one that sides with them, stand up for them, not donald trump. we're learning more and more about his business practices. the more we learn it appears he doesn't stand with the working class voters. >> brian fallon, spokesperson for hillary for america. thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you, alisyn. meanwhile, vice presidential nominees will face off tonight, 9:00 p.m. eastern. cnn's debate coverage begins at 4:00. all right.

the trump campaign coming off a tough week feuding with a former beauty queen, going after bill clinton and hillary clinton's fidelity in their marriage. now defending "the new york times" tax bombshell. how does it recover? trump campaign manager kellyanne conway joins us next live. good to see you, kellyanne. 't i? try lactaid, it's real milk, without that annoying lactose. good, right? mmm, yeah. lactaid. the milk that doesn't mess with you. sureor put themhave ston a rack.e tires. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee. yeah, we're strong when it comes to tires. right now during the big tire event, get a $140 rebate by mail on four select tires. ♪

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we've got a new cnn/orc poll. you have hillary clinton retaking the lead after the first presidential debate. clinton has a five point

advantage over trump. the numbers out this morning as the trump campaign continues to grapple with a tough week with this "new york times" tax headline. let's discuss a bunch of different facets of the campaign with trump's campaign manager kellyanne conway. always good to have you on the show. >> hi, chris. >> let's talk about you for a second. i saw you on "the view" the other day. they were asking you about the dynamic with you and trump and machado came up, the beauty careen. i scolded trump for some of those comments. i thought that was an interesting choice of words because, one, no one scolds donald trump. >> they used that word in their headline. >> they used it as a representation? >> they did. they did. >> did you have a moment with him? >> i never used that word. >> look, i think donald trump is the best when he sticks to the issues. if that weren't true, then hillary clinton would be talking about the issues. you have her husband, president bill clinton on the stump saying obamacare is a disaster. it hurts small businesses. organized well. not doing well. this morning's "new york times" agrees with that. >> hold on a second.

i want to get some insight into the dynamic. if you don't like something that he says or if he is saying something, what is the dynamic in terms of shaping a candidate like you do with any of your other clients when you're working on the pollster side where you go to them and say, this works, this doesn't, here's what i would do. can you do that with trump? >> absolutely, and i'm heard and i'm listened to and i'm respected by him enormously. he's the candidate. he will make his own decisions and the campaign will continue in his own words according to what he thinks is most important, but he takes my counsel and other people's counsel very seriously. we have a fabulous relationship. i can see why, chris, he has employed thousands of women over the years and promoted women to some of the highest positions in the trump corporation. i can walk into trump tower right now and introduce you to women who have worked for him for years if not decades who thinks that he just draws out of them talents that they didn't -- skill sets that they didn't know that they had. he's very gracious to them. very generous. this is how i find him to be as a client and a boss.

>> so these other incidents where he said things that are a reflection of poor character, are those outliers? >> they're cherry picked. they're very unfortunate because they don't show you the measure of the man. i don't know if it's working for hillary clinton and here's why. in a new cnn news poll, she has 53% among women. 53%. she has tried everything she can to try to turn women her way and away from her opponent. >> 20 point lead. >> it's not quite that, but it's not working. in other words, president obama carried women by double digits both times. she's running as the first female president and she's not owning that with america's female voters. what's holding them back? i think what's holding them back according to your earlier polls, you don't ask the questions, people don't trust her. they don't think she's honest. they don't like her. she's out there attacking donald trump. what happened to that pivot we were promised a couple of weeks ago? we're going to switch to an aspirational, uplifting,

optimistic campaign. where in the world is that? in her lock box. >> both campaigns bash the other side. there's a reason both of these candidates are in the gutter with their likability. >> for different reasons. for different reasons. >> tick through a couple of states. the tax thing. i agree with you, when it came out of the box, you follow the law when you're trying to pay taxes. i have an accountant, you have an accountant. there is or should be no suggestion that donald trump did anything illegal absent what we learned from the audit, which is basically up to him. the main hammer that you're getting hit with on this is how great a businessman can you be if you lost $1 billion. "the new york times" says his loss that he recorded, all by himself, donald trump, represented 2% of all losses recorded for the entire industry. it seems to be like he distinguished himself by screwing up, not by being great. what's the rebuttal. >> he distinguished himself by being great before that and after that. he's the art of the comeback. as he said in colorado with an

overflow crowd of thousands and thousands, he thinks this country needs a comeback. many americans believe that. we can do better than wage stagnation, women in poverty. hillary clinton, you've been there for 30 years, you're running as the first female president. how can you look at these women, you and your husband are worth a quarter of a billion, you earned that much anyway, and women are struggling and yet he's the one talking about the comeback. it depends what he did after that. as you say, it's perfectly legal. let's review here. it's a prevision that's been around since 1918. i didn't see president obama beat his chest and say, we need to get rid of this provision, especially when he had democrats in the house and senate for two years when he first got there. this has not been a priority for them. >> it's not been changed, reinforced. >> that's right. there's a reason for that. may i? there's a reason for that. it's because this is america and we appreciate business owners and entrepreneurs and those who take risks. in the case of mr. trump,

brilliantly after that he absorbed those losses. by the way, it's a loss. he absorbed those losses going forward. what did he do? he invested in new york when very few would not. he created thousands of jobs. there are many trump buildings where people live and people are in hotels and people eat in restaurants. in other words, he invested that. it's a great american success story. >> one of the things that i think is going to deserve more attention is he says i get that the system is rigged in favor of people like me. i will change it. his current tax plan does nothing to disallow any of the things that he does with carry forward loss, operating losses or the ability to put away money and self-fund retirement, capital gains. not in any material way. will he do that? will he make good on his promise to change the system so trump can't keep doing this? >> first of all, president obama didn't have it as a priority. >> trump said the reason you should pick me is i know the system. >> he's had a great tax plan

that we talked about on your show. >> there's nothing in the tax plan that will fix what he does with net operating losses. why not? this is his opportunity. >> it's been around for 100 years. >> it's not right. >> what he said is he knows how to leverage the tax system in a way that allowed him to absorb those losses in one year, 21 years ago. it moving forward created thousands of jobs, reinvest and have an amazing comeback. the man is an american success story and i think that's why he's in the hunt in these polls. i think it's why he's going to win. it's a very simple race. past versus future. disrupted outsider versus consummate insider. change washington versus benefit from washington. that's the way people see this race. look, his american success story was also shown on "the apprentice" which was the number one show back in its heyday when it was first on the air. people love that. they love that whole idea.

"shark tank" they love that idea. you can come up with an idea, fail, pick yourself back up and keep going. people appreciate that. "the new york times," chris, says in addition to this provision being 100 years old and other tax plans not being able to eliminate it, in the year of 1995 when mr. trump absorbed this loss and carried it forward, 500,000 people did the same thing. >> he represented 2% of the over all amount. i mean, it's massive. we have never seen someone take a loss that he did. he had a lot of advantages. >> we've never seen anyone like donald trump. >> that is true. he is unique. we'll end this interview on that. it will be interesting, kellyanne, to see if he makes good on his promise to make the system better. >> he'll make it better. seven brackets to three brackets. >> doesn't change this stuff that's why i bring it up. >> stop paying good money for having to prepare their own taxes. in other words, simplify it in a way that americans are already hit with this large tax bill under obama and clinton, don't have to turn around and pay a

tax preparer -- >> nobody will argue with simpler taxes. >> yeah. >> kellyanne, that's how long we've known each other. great to have you on "new day" as always. >> thank you. >> alisyn, dated myself. >> no one else will date you. meanwhile, vice president joe biden offering his candid take on donald trump and a 2016 race. wait until you hear what he has to say. that's next. i got it. hashtag "mouthbreather." yep. we've got a mouthbreather. well, just put on a breathe right strip and... pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone. so you can breathe... and sleep. shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right. across new york state, from long island to buffalo, from rochester to the hudson valley,

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learn more at yeson64.org vote yes on 64. so we have this opportunity to sit with vice president joe biden, actually, we stood, and he was on his feet because he's very exercised about this election. he believes that now is the time that people are clearly seeing trump for who he is and clinton for whom she is. here's a taste on his thoughts on the race. >> we're here in florida. polls are tight. there's a suggestion that it's even getting tighter. the main points of dispute are the need for change, the questions about trust, and the idea of energy. that's what trump is saying, those are his advantages. how do you answer those questions here in florida?

>> i bet he couldn't carry his bag 18 holes on one of his own golf courses, speaking of energy. but, look, i think the real issue here is can you imagine a president getting up at 3:30 in the morning and tweeting vitreole. i really mean this. he lacks any sensibilities about the american people. i just don't get it. he is so woefully uninformed on foreign policy it's dangerous. >> people take it as strength, as speaking the way we do. he doesn't play those games that politicians play and they reward him or at least don't punish him for saying things that you find out of balance. >> well, i think they're now starting to focus, chris. this is getting deadly ernest. every election people make up their mind later and later in the process, but now they're beginning to focus. they're getting to see who this guy really is. i predict to you she will win and she will win clearly.

>> he says that whatever you have been doing hasn't worked and put us in a situation now where people are more afraid than ever. he will put america first. they feel america is weak and he plays on that. it sent him to the top of the polls. does that need to be respected by hillary clinton? >> well, yes. the way to respect it is speak to that. she's doing that. the fact of the matter is we're still far and away the most respected country in the world. number two, we're in a situation where there are more american companies coming home than going abroad. there's been this megaphone out there about how bad off we are, how weak we are, how weak the military is, et cetera. it's simply not true. and the fact of the matter is, now people are beginning to focus. >> we didn't see that this was going to be about finding the center of america again and this definitional proposition in this race. do you believe anybody can fight that fight as well as you?

>> well, i'm sure there are people. i don't know anybody that feels more passionately than i do, but i think if there's any one thing we haven't communicated enough to the american people is they're in trouble. they're scared. we don't speak to them enough. we don't let them know how much we respect them. we do all things that benefit them, but we don't speak to them. >> trump, many of them, believe speaks to them. >> yeah, they do, but they think he speaks to them because they haven't listened to what he's saying. much of it has been a negative attack on hillary and a failure to focus on what she's saying. our job here is to get a focus on what really matters. what's going to change the circumstance for middle class person. it's about being able to send your kid to a park, you know they're going to come home safely. be able to own your own home and not have to rent it. be able to send your kid to a local high school, they get to college. if they get in, you can find a way to get them there. and in addition to that, be able

to take care of your geriatric parent when the other passed away and never have to be taken care of yourself by your children. and what hillary feels, i know but she doesn't say enough, is she understands that when that kid doesn't get that loan to go to college, it's not just, quote, the mind wasted, it's that father or mother who looks at this telling the kid like my dad did. i remember i was trying to get to amherst. i got into a lot of schools, but amherst was the school i wanted to go to and they gave me grand and aid, division iii football, but it still wasn't enough. and i remember going down to see my dad where he worked. he ran an automobile agency, he didn't own it. i asked him -- the person who ran the show, mary, where's dad? he said, out in the lane going into the service center. i walked out and my dad was pacing back and forth. this is a true story. he looked at me and said, ah, joe, i'm so sorry. i am so sorry. i said, what's the matter, dad? i thought -- before cell phones. i thought something happened to

my family. he said, i went to the bank today. they won't lend the money to get you to school. i'm so ashamed of myself. i'm so ashamed. all those parents out there. all those parents out there. it's not just about the kid, it's not about school, it's about being able to meet the expectations of the children and not having a level playing field out there. that's what this is about. i know hillary feels that, but every time she expresses emotion she gets clobbered, she gets clobbered. i know her. i know she cares. i think that's sort of -- at least i want to talk to those folks who are looking at trump and saying maybe he's the answer. he doesn't deliver anything. >> we're going to talk about the take aways from that biden interview in just a few moments. first, the east coast on high

alert this morning. we're watching powerful hurricane matthew as it makes landful in haiti. we have the latest hurricane track for you. ah! you're not taking these. hey, hey, hey! you're not taking those. woah, woah! you're not taking that. come with me. you're not taking that. you're not taking that. you're not taking that. mom, i'm taking the subaru. don't be late. even when we're not there to keep them safe, our subaru outback will be. (vo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

breaking this morning, hurricane matthew making landfall in haiti. it is big. it is slow. and it's going to be deadly. now there is concern about the new track of this storm and how it could hit the east coast of the united states. cnn meteorologist chad myers joining us with the latest. we know these tracks change. >> it's what i believed yesterday. we had the first 24/48 hours with the models turning to the left, chris. we know that's the most accurate part of the model. we know the 72 hour part of the model is least accurate. it did what we anticipated. 145 mile per hour storm over haiti. it's interacting with the land. what you need to know is the left-hand turn that happened with the models overnight, that is a category 3 just off shore

of florida. or if you look at the cone, could be completely on shore. it could be making landfall in miami. that's a possibility. it's also a possibility that it could be completely off shore, but what you need to know is that there will be heavy rain, there will be heavy wind. in that purple area through cuba and bahamas, there's a chance we'll see tropical storm or hurricane winds over the next 48 hours. slighter chance but that's only because we get a little bit farther away from shore. take a look at this. this is what haiti is going to be experiencing now for the next couple of hours. we are going to see such significant flooding here because the land is topographically high. 5,000 feet high. you're going to put 25 inches of rainfall on a mountain, you're going to get flooding, landslides and you'll see flooding. >> that's scary. thanks for keeping an eye on it for us. there are new polls to share with you. trump versus clinton. also, how does joe biden feel about not running in this election? we're going to get the bottom line next. first, an interesting story

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okay. so we've had a lot to talk about in this show. a lot of material today. chris sat down with vice president joe biden and asked whether biden now regrets his decision not to run for president? >> and i wish i were a better man, but i just wasn't ready to do that, but i'm doing my very best as i can to see to it -- i'm confident hillary will be a first-rate president. and, you know, everybody thinks when they're considering running, they only consider running if they think they'd be better. that all changed for me when bo passed. >> let's get our political bottom line. we want to bring in david

gregory. what do you think when you hear joe biden talk? >> it was a really compelling moment and a really good interview. i think a lot of people have so much sympathy and compassion for joe biden as a dad who's gone through just an immeasurable loss in his life. and not just with bo but of course his -- his wife and daughter as well. i think, look, you look at this politically and say here's a guy who could be very effective against donald trump, there's no question about it, but he's not running and that happens in politics a lot. i think if you're hillary clinton, what you rely on is his testimony when he says to you, look, she cares, i know that. that doesn't make a difference. people have made a judgment. joe biden can't change it. he can try to do his best where she's struggling. the rust belt may make a difference for her. she can focus on florida, like other sunbelt states. >> if he had gotten in the race, what would have been the big liability that people aren't imagining right now? because it's always about, you know, the positive until you're in the race. what do you think people have to

remember in an analysis of what would have happened if biden ran? >> well, i think he would really wear the cloak of the obama years, the foreign policy of the obama years, obamacare. i think he would wear that a lot more strongly. again, you have obama at 55%, so that wouldn't have been such a huge liability. i think biden can make an economic values against trump as he did to you more strongly than hillary clinton can. to whatever extent that is going to be effective, we don't know. this idea that he's out of touch as a rich guy, he didn't pay his fair share of federal taxes. you heard in our interview that biden makes that case in a much more compelling way as a candidate than hillary clinton, but, you know, liabilities about the obama years and just, you know, personal issues that i think would come up in the course of the campaign, the rough and tumble of the campaign that he shoots from the hip as well, we should say. things that we can't predict. that he can be unpredictable. >> we also had on governor gary johnson who's running for

president. he's had some public foreign policy flubs of late where he didn't, for instance, know where aleppo was in syria. this morning he was fired up and he explained why those flubs shouldn't matter. listen to this. >> i guess because you can -- you can dot the is and cross the ts on foreign leaders and geographic locations that now somehow you're qualified to put us in that situation? hey, if that ends up to be the case, so be it. i guess i wasn't meant to be president. >> first of all, why is he yelling? okay. >> he's fired up. >> but if that were hillary clinton, people would say, why is she yelling? we should point that out about a mantha he's yelling because he's on a remote interview. what he said prior to that is we're involved in a civil war. the criticism is that we're not sufficiently involved in civil war and there's been carnage as a result. gary johnson doesn't know the world. foreign leaders and the scrutiny that he faces is symptomatic of what he doesn't know.

i think some of the enthusiasm you're seeing for hillary clinton that is on the uptick is a sign that maybe younger voters who are still gravitating towards him might be moving away. >> however, there's enthusiasm for him as well. he's had very crowded rallies. >> and his numbers in colorado are really strong. he's a factor in a state like colorado and the west where he can do some damage to hillary clinton. there's more work for her to do. i think the debates are important for her in that regard. the weakest part of her coalition remains younger voters. >> unlike nader, he had a reason that went beyond his own candidacy. i don't care if i take from these people because this idea matters, whether it was climate change or being -- what is that with gary johnson? he has to live with whoever he's taken votes from at the end of the day. what makes it worth it for him? i wonder about that. >> i don't know. >> third party system that he believes in. >> yeah, but it's that he's not trump or clinton. i don't think it's enough. you have to be a viable third path.

it could be enough with a certain segment of voters. nader got 4%. he could do better than that. >> gregory. thank you. >> you bet. >> how about a little good stuff next. "credit karma huh?" "yeah, it's free." "credit karma. give youself some credit."

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go home safer, then i'll drive it every day of the week. together, we're building a better california. good stuff. a sweet surprise for a world war ii veteran. so many young men, 91-year-old was called to serve in 1943. that means he spent his senior year of high school aboard a

ship, "the u.s.s. gillette." one veterans affairs person felt it wasn't right that he never got his diploma so he took action. >> i wanted to pursue it because he's earned it. >> veal served in the navy from '43 to '65. he reenlisted in the korean war before entering the work force. >> this diploma means everything to me because it's the only way i would have got it and i appreciate it and everybody that was involved. >> so whole generation of men like veal, so anxious and devoted to the country to get in and serve in just their teens that they forgot about themselves, forgot about their own lives in high school and went and served and many never came back. he did and now at least he got his due. >> he is wonderful. all right. let's have a little levity. late night laughs focused on the trump bombshell and they even

sprinkled in a joke about zika. nolg funnier than that. according to a new report zika virus mate be able to spread through sweat and tears. come november we're all getting zika. >> the vice presidential debate between mike pence and tim kaine, yeah, experts expect a record number of people not to watch it. >> lebron james endorsed hillary clinton over the weekend, which clinton says for her campaign is a real home run. >> "the new york times" released some of donald trump's old tax returns which they say were leaked by someone inside trump's camp. >> ohhhhhh. >> or as trump's lesser known daughter tiffany put it, want to pay attention to me now, dad? >> that was the year he was married to marla maples, tiffany's mother. >> even i got the lebron james

joke so that means it was a good one. that's good. all right. thanks so much for watching us on "new day." we'll see you tomorrow. time now for "newsroom" with carol costello. good morning, carol. >> you're a funny lady, alisyn. >> thanks, carol. >> have a great day. "newsroom" starts now. and good morning. i'm carol costello live from farmville, virginia, where in a matter of hour tim kaine and mike pence square off fighting not just for themselves but their ticket. thank you so much for joining us this morning. the cruel reality of vice presidential politics, kaine and pence can't win many votes tonight but they can certainly lose them. neither ticket can afford that in a race this close. new cnn/orc poll shows hillary clinton has seized the lead by 5 points. she has gained