certainly contributed to it but it started with the debate. no question. >> thanks. our cnn countdown continues now with erin burnett "outfront." tonight, the vice presidential candidates in high pressure test. >> hillary clinton will never be elected president. >> with a close e lebs lection line. >> donald trump wants us to trust him? are you kidding me? >> senator tim kaine and governor mike pence battling for the nation's second highest office and making their case for their campaigns. >> when donald trump becomes the next president of the united states of america, the change will be huge. >> hillary is ready. she's ready to fight. and she is ready to lead. >> this is cnn's coverage of kaine versus pence. >> trump represents the same

rigged system that he claims he's going to change. >> two choices. one state. and america's future up for debate. the vice presidential nominees are getting ready to appear on this stage in a debate that may be all about the candidates who are not here tonight, donald trump and hillary clinton. coming live from the campus of longwood university in farmvillevirginia. welcome to all. i'm erin burnett with a special edition of "outfront" tonight on this debate night in america. tonight tim kaine and mike pence are trying to pass a crucial test. they want to prove they can handle the most preponderance job of any vice president, of course taking charge if

something happens to the commander in chief. donald trump will watch tonight this at the hotel in las vegas. he has assured everyone he'll live tweet from the event. now the presidential candidates right now are gearing up for their own debate rematch this sunday. polls showing clinton getting a bounce from their first round match up. all with only about a month to go until election day. now let's go inside the debate hall to wolf blitzer. he's there with more on what question expect tonight. wolf? >> erin, the vice presidential candidates getting ready to take the stage about two hours from now. viewers will see tim kaine on the left and mike pence on the right. they will debate for 90 minutes with no commercial breaks, just as hillary clinton and donald trump did. our first question will go to senator quinn -- hkaine.

and we'll also talk to the wives of the vice presidential nominees. tim kaine's wife ann. and mike pence's wife karen. let's bring in jake tapper. jake what are you look for tonight? >> the candidates don't come onto the stage tonight in equal footing. about a week in change ago donald trump had the momentum but now it is a very different race because of donald trump's performance in the last debate, as well as a brew ha ha with the former miss universe and questions about his taxes, donald trump is playing defense. hillary clinton has the momentum. hillary clinton is the one who now leads nationally and in key battleground state polls. so the question is how is that going to effect the dynamic? mike pence, arguably with a more difficult job tonight trying to explain things that his running mate has said and done in the last week that he himself has

not. wolf. >> very interesting. i want to bring in dana bash as well. stand by vice presidential candidates have both been in politics for a long time but they have never actually met. what do you make of tonight? >> this is a proxy war, no question about it. and these guys, the bottom of the ticket. they have only a couple of nights. they are out on the campaign trail all of the time. but this is one of them. and the expectations are really high that they cannot only deliver the messages of policy of their campaigns but also attack their opponent and also defend their candidate. but it is no question that mike pence has the steepest hill to climb because he's got to get in a lot of the things that donald trump simply didn't last week when it comes toen hillary clinton and her record. >> and you have covered both of these candidates. you know them well. we're going to have much more coming up. erin over to you. >> we're getting late word now

on the candidate's debate sfrgs tonight. as you can see how high the stakes are. let's go to brianna keilar. what are you hearing from the clinton campaign and of course tim kaine tonight? >> reporter: well as one senior campaign source told me, tim kaine is prosecuting donald trump even more so than mike pence. his goal we're told is going to be to drive a wedge between the vice presidential candidate and his own candidate trying to force pence to choose between his own defending capability and his running mate on controversial positions and statements he's made. and we do expect donald trump's taxes to be a focal point for tim kaine. specifically the "new york times" report over the weekend that he may have avoided paying taxes for as many as 18 years because of a nearly 1 billion dollar loss he claimed in 1995. key arguments, if you do take a billion dollar loss in a year,

what kind of businessman are you really? so poking holes in that and also if you are not paying taxes, you are not supporting the military and roads and bridges. he's going to try to force mike pence to defend donald trump and poke some holes in that. >> which of course puts pence in difficult position. he wants to turn the tables and put the spotlight on the hillary clinton. let's go to jim acosta and what about mike pence's debate strategy and how he's going to respond what to brianna was j t talking about. >> reporter: aides say he is ready. they say he is prepared for tim kaine's attack ordinance donald trump's tax records. they say if he's not prepared he shouldn't in this race. he'll be the expecting indiana governor to folks on hillary clinton as well. all through the night from benghazi to the the clinton foundation and mike pence, make no mistake, he's done his hork. in contrast to donald trump's

last of preparation, pence has been preparing for months and he's very prepared. his marching orders from one official is quote, win. they want to change the narrative of the campaign and they want to get back to winning way, erin. >> the stakes are incredibly high tonight. >> a critical time for this debate. mike smerconish, how -- for tim kaine, the clinton campaign is sort of hitting the trump campaign from different directions on a variety of topics. i guess my question is which does tim kaine pick to go at? i. >> i think the first rule of business is the hippocratic o h oath. >> to do no harm. >> right. but the specific answer i think is to focus on the very recent donald trump because that is the one who right now is in the descent. the donald trump who had a poor

debate performance and has this tax issue that just won't go away. i think it will be his job to accentuate those negatives. >> i think what kaine is going to do is president the case against donald trump's temperament and against donald trump's character and also try and portray hillary clinton as a person who a likable. tim kaine is very likable. is a likable guy and maybe he can be the character witness for her. >> there was a time when donald trump was more on teleprompter when hillary clinton was making the argument that on judgment that he was unreliable. where that became a more difficult argument to make. donald trump has helped the clinton campaign over the last couple of weeks. >> as we saw during the summer when he had a bad couple of convention weeks and went off the rails for several weeks, he doesn't handle situations well, where he's viewed as having lost. and tends to lash out.

and that is what's happened. and now it is up to mike pence to be a circuit breaker. i lived -- i don't know if you remember. the president didn't have a very good debate. the first debate back in 2012. and democrats got a little nervous as democrats want to do. >> i think freaked out is -- >> yeah. i'm trying to be kind about it. >> yeah. >> -- [inaudible]. >> -- freaked out too. >> i was focused. but joe biden really turned in a very strong debate performance. and that steeled everyone's nerves. i think republicans are looking for mike pence to do that in this debate and for him to deliver the tax they wish donald trump delivered in the last debate and didn't. >> benghazi, the clinton foundation, e-mail scandals all left untouched in the first debate. i think is trick is going to be he's going to have to find a new way to talk about those issues i think. because a lot of these issues are already baked into the cake.

and you saw from lint last go round she found a new way to talk about donald trump's sexism in the form of the alicia machado and that was very memorable and lasted several days after he mentioned it. so is he going find a way do do that? new information are a sound bite or phrase? it is interesting but he's used to . >> these guys are very different than the people they are running with. >> right and the question for pence, does he sort of foreshadow the next debate? does he start attacking hillary clinton and bill clinton personally? because pence is kind of a low key and he can deliver an attack pretty well that way. and i'm wondering whether they are going to turn to him to start that. >> jeffrey lord, do you think mike pence is going to do down that road? >> well i -- i hate to say this. but i think vice presidential debates, other than the

occasional one liner are forgettable. >> thanks very much. [ laughter [ laughter ] >> however, however. >> and we have two more hours. [ laughter ] >> except for this time. >> i'll have to say they get off a good line here or there. but the possibly exception here is that mike pence can serious help donald trump with his base. the pence base. evangelicals. social conservatives. >> which was the reason he was picked in the first place. >> reassuring them that this is the person that they should be voting for. which is important because there was a falloff of mitt romney of conservative whose felt believe it or not there was no difference -- >> is it they who need reassurance or new voters need to be reached? >> it is both. you see 90% of republicans like trump, and likewise 90% of dmkts

support clinton. >> and also -- >> and he needs to shore those voters up. there is a vote who are really stuck out in my mind last week. in the voter focus group. and is she was a young millennial and she said i didn't hear from either candidate monday night who's going to make my life better and if the mike pence can take this to the issues, that is where donald trump wins. he won the first thirty minutes because he was talking about the issueses. if he can elevate the dialogue i think that can be a big -- >> -- kaine has do? >> first we're in this weird bizarre world where pence is like a reasonable, moderate person. i mean, this is the guy who, you know, doesn't believe in evolution apparently. who's been very very tough on the gay community. orderly this guy would represent the extreme. but trump has so transformed this party that pence is now the moderate. such a strange situation for us to be in.

this is a very extreme right winger. and guess what? there is no reason for tim kaine to spend a bunch of time prosecuting him on his record because trump is such a target rich environment. so you are never going to get a chance to hear it. if this guy were president most of the people in this country would be appalled to have someone like kaine as president. we'll never even get to that. >> do you think that is true? >> right. dana was a right to call this a proxy war. this is not about mike pence. he used to come on cross-fire, this terrible show i used to hold. a good guy. pleasant. very conservative. but his temperament, which is mr. trump's biggest flaw, is just wonderful. a really nice guy. the two of them. they have seven things to do. attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack. and each of them will be doing that. i don't think tim kaine gives a rip snort about mike pence's conservative record and pence about kaine's.

they are each going to attack the other's boss. >> interesting you use the word temperament, because that actually could help donald trump that he comes across as a temperate person. that could actually donald trump. >> let paul finish. >> i hope the staffs are getting to the principles. because all you are doing is attacking. what you are not doing is defending the boss. now, you know, next week when you do it. it won't matter. it is just the two of them. and that is going to be much more exciting frankly. but tonight when you don't defend i'm going to be happy for both of them. but i sat and watched. and the governor kept saying he's not defending me. he's not defending me. governor, we told him not to. we told him to attack bush. not defend you. >> when you are not attacking -- >> you're losing.

so if in fact pence does not trump a lot. which i would counsel him to. but if he doesn't -- >> -- offense -- >> i don't think trump can stand that. i think trump can't stand if every sentence is not about donald trump. so mike -- >> donald trump wants to win. and i think -- >> i'm not sure about that. have you seen him lately? he's like completely self destructing. >> remember joe lieberman and dick cheney. >> the worst. >> exactly. democrats were very upset because joe lieberman did not defend. >> or attack. >> all he did is try to persuade what a lovely guy joe lieberman. and that is not your joe at the debate. it is to tear the heart of the other guy. and cheney by the way did a fine job tearing apart part all gore. >> a little bit like mike pence. same manner and it's quiet yet

he can attack quietly. >> hence though is a human being which is different from cheney -- >> up next, exclusive interview with vice president joe biden big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked.

made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

to the future of gaming. transport you... grab the new cheddar habanero quesarito box with a doritos locos taco, crunchy taco and medium drink and you could win playstation vr. [sfx: bong]

when legalizing safe, responsible adult use of marijuana, the most important question is how? by voting yes on prop 64: adults 21 and over could only purchase marijuana at licensed marijuana businesses. and prop 64 bans advertising directed at kids... requires strict product labeling... child-proof packaging... and bans edibles that appeal to children. smart provisions to safeguard our families. learn more about the safeguards at yeson64.org.

and we are counting you down to the vice presidential debate right here at longwood university in virginia. it is two hours away. and we are traveling the country talking to voters in battleground states in partnership with instagram, facebook and other technologies and we want to hear from you. post pictures on instagram, tell us who you are voting for. use the #my vote. your picture could be used in our election coverage. now let's hear from a man who's been in a high pressure debate exactly like the one we saw tonight. the vice president of the united states joe biden talking exclusively with our colleague chris cuomo earlier today. here he is.

>> polls are tight and suggestion it is even getting tighter. the main points of dispute are the need for change. the questions about trust and the idea of energy. that is what trump is saying. those are his advantages. how do you answer those questions here in florida? >> i bet he couldn't carry his bag 18 holes on one of his own golf courses, speaking of energy. but look, i think the real issues here are, can you imagine any president of the united states saying any of the things that he has said about -- can you imagine a president getting up at 3:30 morning and tweeting vitriol? i really mean this. this goes to this man lacks any sensibilities about the american people. i don't get it. and he is so woefully uninformed on foreign policy it's dangerous. >> it worked for him, mr. vice

president. people take it as strength. speaking the way we do. he doesn't play the games politician play and they reward him or at least don't punish him for things that you find out of bounds. >> i think they are now starting to focus now. every election in the last four presidential election people make up their mind later and later in the process. granted there's not a lot of enthusiasm across the board here but now they are getting to focus and they are getting to see who this guy really is. and i predict to you she'll win and she'll win clearly. >> when you hear about situations where trump says he's smart for finding ways to use the tax law as is provide td. it bothers you. >> it does. >> -- suggests something wrong about the position. but that is what the tax code is about. is finding ways to pay the least amount possible. >> i thought it was about making sure you did your part for your

country. i grew up in a household where -- and they never made any real money. and i'd say i'm paying this and that and my dad would say it is a small price to pay. since when does someone in a penthouse over looking the world be in a position where he doesn't feel any obligation at all to pay any federal income tax to support the military, to support education. to support our foreign policy. since when is that a patriotic thing do? can you imagine any other president -- any other president suggests to ever say that and be proud of that? i can't fathom it. >> trump is making head lines for saying that those who avoid pts are strong. those succumb to it therefore by implication are weak. he wasn't been insult it seemed in the video of it. but it does speak to an ignorance about the issue. what does that statement mean to you? >> this is an ignorant man. this guy says things you have no

idea. he's not a bad man. but his ignorance is so profound. so profound. can you imagine what that means if he believes that and he acts on that. what that means for, you know, i carry a card with me every single day and i hope i have it with me now. it is my schedule here. and on my schedule i have a little box on the schedule. i have my staff contact the defense department every morning at 6:00. to tell me exactly how many troops are injured, exactly how many troops are wounded. because every one matters. it is not 6700 and some. it is 6,753 deaths. not fifty. it is 53. and 15,419 wounded and the number of people coming home with unseen injury, posttraumatic stress and brain injury is significantly higher.

that is why we need another 50,000 nurses right now to take care of people. what does this say about a guy who doesn't have any notion about that? look at what these kids are going through? look at the sacrifices they are making and look at what they go to sleep dreading. and i was asked to present a silver star to a young man who jumped -- a young commander jumped into a burning humvee to pull out his buddy after an ied exploded. this kid and the kid died. the commanding general asked me to pin on a silver star when i was there. do you know what the kid said to me? i don't want it. i don't want it. he did not live, sir. that kid probably goes to sleep every night with a nightmare and this guy doesn't understand any of that? how can he not understand that? how can he be so out of touch

and asked to lead this country? >> the debate for the vice president, what do you want people to remember? >> i want them to remember that whomever is vice president they are looking at is supporting is amine w someone is who has the trust and confident of the president, their candidate and believe what is their candidate believes. because it is not -- and no longer is it sufficient for a president being able to handle himself or herself. they need additional help. and one of the great, great gifts that i've had being vice president is that the president's given me major responsibility, turned it over and said just do it. presidents from now into the future are going to have to do that. and so if you have a candidate, like i have a feeling -- i don't know -- that mike pence is. and i don't know that he really thinks a lot of what trump is saying makes any sense. what a hell of a way to make a living have to be vice president and have to get up every morning

and support someone you don't agree with. maybe he does. and if e he does agree with him, then maybe people with see the difference in policy here. i know tim kaine. he's smart as hell. and he has significant experience. and i know hillary. she called me and asked my opinion. i know she trusts him and i know he'll be able to --. >> great interview there with joe biden. and no matter where you stand on this, no matter who you are voting for can't say you weren't moved by the young man and the silver star he just told chris. as we get closer to the debate. we're going to talk about hillary clinton's post debate bounce in the policy and would it shift again as in the past debate? more with us in the special edition of "outfront." ritos to late night quesadillas 20 decadent cravings $1 all day at taco bell. let the feast begin.

freshly made in the tokyo-japanese tradition, each batch is small. special. unique... every bowl blurring the line between food...and art. when you cook with incredible ingredients... you make incredible meals. fresh ingredients. step-by-step-recipes. delivered to your door, for less than $9 a meal. get $30 off your first delivery blueapron.com/cook. ii'd look her right in that fat ugly face of hers.age. she's a slob. she ate like a pig. a person who's flat chested is very hard to be a 10. does she have a good body? no. does she have a fat [expletive]? absolutely. do you treat women with respect? i can't say that either.

but zzzquil is different have pain medicine because why would you take a pain medicine when all you want is good sleep? zzzquil: a non-habit forming sleep-aid that's not for pain, just for sleep.

i am a first responder tor and i'emergencies 24 hours a day, everyday of the year. my children and my family are on my mind when i'm working all the time. my neighbors are here, my friends and family live here, so it's important for me to respond as quickly as possible and get the power back on. it's an amazing feeling turning those lights back on. be informed about outages in your area. sign up for outage alerts at pge.com/outagealerts. together, we're building a better california. and as we count you down to tonight's vice presidential debate hear, moments away we have a new snapshot of the presidential race that we're projecting here on the campus of longwood university. hillary clinton now has a five point lead over donald trump in

our latest cnn orc poll of likely voters nationwide. now, she's sharply increased her support among independents, a crucial group since her first debate with trump. so called undecided. there's also a significant shift among men. clinton trails trump among likely voters but she was 22 points behind early last month. that is a pretty incredibly about face. you can track everything on the cnn app. but now let's take a closer look at the state of the race. just over third days to the election day. john king is at the magic wall. and right afl the convention hillary clinton was so far ahead. a month later that flipped to donald trump. now a month later she's back on top and you have one month to go. >> quite a remarkable swing just eight days ago the day of the debate. and five weeks from now we'll be waiting for the first polls to close. let's look at the cnn electoral map as we have it right now.

we have hillary clinton at 272. that is enough to win. the dark blue states solid democratic. the light blue leani inin ining democratic. eight days ago donald trump was leading in nevada. and internally at cnn we were look at polls showing colorado was close. maybe we were going to have to put that back in the toss up category. pennsylvania was getting closer. maybe we're going to have to put that back in the toss up category. that was eight days ago. you could see donald trump getting two 264 and waerp looking at some states saying he has more possibilities to try to get to 270. that was then. let me flip this back this way. this is now. in just the past 24 to 72 hours polls showing it is not donald trump but hillary clinton leading in in evidence. hillary clinton leading in florida. hillary clinton leading in north carolina. trump still leads in ohio. but look at the map right now. if she could hold the leads in those states it gets her to 322.

what it says is under this map it is impossible. it is impossible. now it's swung a lot in eight days. it can certainly swing back again. but as you mention with five weeks to go, tonight is very important for pence to stop this momentum and then donald trump faces an enormous task on sunday night. if you have to turn a state like florida where clinton has a five point lead now? that is hard. as the big, diverse state. you want to make a play, it's hard. i one or two states you might be able to trump but if you are donald trump and look at a map like this you would have to change one, two, three and then still look for more? time is getting very short. the map's swung in clinton's favor. with mike pence's help he hopes tonight to stop the momentum. but what a difference eight days make. >> i guess the question is it's swung this much in eight days.

can it swing back? at a person point there is momentum but could it go backwards. >> first of all. people are voting right now. we should mention that. 40% of the country will have voted by the time election day rolls around. so the election is under way. i have to tell you this though. my experience in 2012 and 2008 was that the public polls tended to shift much more dramatically than our ole polling did. partly because campaigns have greater resources to poll into polling. have richer data to append to voting lists from which they make these calls. and we didn't see -- we saw in public polls great shifts in 2012 that didn't show up in our polling. and i suspect that this race is a little bit more stable. it is hard to move big blocks of voters in america today. we have a very polarized country. these candidates have been under scrutiny for a couple years now.

people have formed opinions. so the notion that we're going to be swinging back i find hard to believe. i believe hillary clinton probably has a lead now that is not huge but a significant and is going to be hard to dislodge. >> you know it seems that her lead has been pretty durable. we don't know whether, you know, she just got this bump out of the convention or -- out of the debate or it went back to kind of where it was, where it had been. and also the question is how many undecided voters are there? polls show somewhere between -- >> when you have a 60% or above unfavorable as donald trump does. 64 in some polls. 65. it's very hard to patch together the kind of votes you need to win. >> we got to take a break. coming up. are the vice presidential candidates ready to attack as hard as their running mates did? we'll also talk to their wives

safety doesn't come in a box.

it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. at safelite, we know how busy life can be. these kids were headed to their first dance recital... ...when their windshield got cracked... ...but they couldn't miss the show. so dad went to the new safelite-dot-com. and in just a few clicks, he scheduled a replacement... ...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage. (girls sing) safelite repair' (girls sing) safelite replace.

sprint? i'm hearing good things about the network. all the networks are great now. we're talking within a 1% difference in reliability of each other. and, sprint saves you 50% on most current national carrier rates. save money on your phone bill, invest it in your small business. wouldn't you love more customers? i would definitely love some new customers. sprint will help you add customers and cut your costs. switch your business to sprint and save 50% on most current verizon, at&t and t-mobile rates. don't let a 1% difference cost you twice as much. whoooo! for people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay.com.

counting down to the first

and only vice presidential debate tonight. this will be the first time that mike pence and tim kaine have actually ever met in person, pretty amazing, even though both have been in politics in this country for decades. we're learning more at this moment about the vice presidential candidates final preparations for tonight's debate. will they be more or less rehearsed than their rubbing mates? jim acosta is with me now. and how doid mike pence get ready for tonight? >> he is ready erin. i'm told that mike pence has been practices for tonight's debate since the indiana governor got the call from donald trump, get this, back in july. now, check this out. we want to show you the sharp contrast between pence's debate prep and trump's practice sessions. trump prepped with no stand-in for hillary clinton. instead huddling with advisors. pence has gone the more traditional route. we know the sessions took place around a table and pence has been prepping for weeks with

wisconsin governor scott walker who played tim kaine. and pence advisor played the role of the moderate herb. other top aides were in the room also. pence held these in indianapolis and wisconsin and sparred so much with the wisconsin governor erin that one official joked he's glad pence is not debating scott walker. also going over binders of material and he's also reviewing his congressional record i'm told knowing full record that tim kaine will likely go after the indiana governor's time in congress when he was in the republican leadership. so not just what happened in indianapolis when mike pence was in indianapolis but also when he was a top republican in washington d.c. that is going to be crucial as well erin. >> thank you very much jim. and now to tim kaine's debate preparations here in these final moments. brianna what are you learning about tim kaine? and you're going to hear about mike pence not doing it the trump way. what did tim kaine do?

>> reporter: well we know he and his team have been tight-lipped 5b9d the way he's been preparing but he's been preparing in his hometown of richmond, virginia. as well as in raleigh, north carolina. a chance to get away and prepare intensely. but he too has been sitting at a table, as we'll see him tonight, sitting with mike pence and the moderator during this debate. and playing mike pence in these preparations is bob barnett. washington super lawyer and agent who's spent ten cycles now helping candidates prepare for debates. mosten recently he played bernie sanders for hillary clinton in the primaries and tim kaine has described barnett as extremely tough in the preparations and also karen dunn and ron klain who been helping hillary clinton out. they have been leading her debate preparations so that's taken a pause to help out tim kaine and really helping him in a kind of debate that even he says is a little different than he is used to.

he's debated but he's normally been asking voters to support him, to vote for him. now he has to sell voters on hillary clinton's vision for the country, erin. >> brianna, thank you. so the vice presidential candidates, you know, as you hear about the specifics for this debate have been preparing for weeks and weeks but really for months and all comes down to how tonight plays out. i'm joined by our distinguished political panel. mike pence and tim kaine have built their reputations on being the nice guy, in both cases. and tonight they are going to have to have moments where they are simply not so nice. here is how they tested the waters on the campaign trail. >> since i've been governor of the state of indiana, unemployment has been cut almost in half and it doubled under tim kaine. >> this is somebody who has said lgbt people would bring about a societal collapse. that is just not right, folks. >> you know it does seem to me he's just a pretty good match for hillary clinton. i mean the you want more taxes,

more spending, more regulation, more government and fewer jobs, just vote for the clinton/kaine ticket. now add to it this latest things which is almost surreal is donald trump and mike pence's unusual fascination with vladimir putin. this is almost nightmare scenario. >> all right. what does mike pence need do tonight? >> mike pence is going to come out looking like a president, qualified to be a president. but what he's got to do is he's got to convince the american people that he's a genuine authentic individual who doesn't speak washingtonian. he doesn't have the slick phrases that people that usually run for president but he's authentic and he can get the job done and he's a businessman. so he's not going to be what

people are normally use toed to. but more than ever our country needs a change agent, someone who can come in and turn our economy around and trump is that guy. >> what do you do if asked about tim kaine about donald trump's comments about a beauty queen being fat or other things like that? that is a scenario -- does he defend it? >> somewhat he defends it but he deflects it too. he's got to talk about donald trump's strong suits and that is business. turning the economy around. being an outsider. coming to washington as a change agent and not get drilled down and do what donald did and talk about the issues. those aren't the issues that win the votes. he needs to deflect them and move onto the stock suit of the campaign why the people elect him as the party nominee. >> does tim kaine try to force mike pence to defend these things, some of the ind defensibles or does retry to go after more substantive issues. >> there is no question he's going to try to split pence and

trump. and as a politician he's a little better at deflecting and moving on to not answering questions he doesn't want to answer. tim kaine and mike pence on both have been in public office for a long time. they have records. and so you would see tim kaine do more on substance i think tonight than we saw perhaps in the presidential debate. because whether it is appealing to women with pence's attacks on planned parenthood or on climate change or other issues that you will see tim kaine holding mike pence in the donald trump ticket with their feet to the fire in a way that appeals to those centrist voters. because much of the country is center-left of donald trump and mike pence on these irssues. this is a big opportunity. the other thing that's worth noting though is this is their shot.

this is the biggest audience these audience these two will ever have to be seen as potential presidents. and i think you will see tim kaine really ready for that. the other thing is i've been thinking that the unspoken issue tonight is that tim kaine is out there saying, i am a white guy comfortable with hillary clinton as my leader. and that is kind of an important thing. he's going to be out there promoting hillary clinton in a way that a lot of men have not been doing. >> interesting point. >> and give an extra level of comfort to voters on that score. >> it will be interesting to see how the women issue goes. of course a female moderator here. recently mike pence was is telling me his views on chaik child care have changed over the years. tonight really is jamie the curtain raiser. the curtain raiser for round two. round two and donald trump desperately needs to go very differently than round one. your reporting shows that there is a lot of focus at the very highest levels of the gop on this. >> so these are gop

establishment, long time leaders who know about debates who are backing donald trump. and they feel that debate number two for trump cannot be anything like debate number one. they want him to be more disciplined. they want him to practice. one said to me he has to stop going down rabbit holes. he has to stop chasing the rabbits. . he has to learn to answer a question with two sentences. and guess what, pivot to where he wants to go. can't take the bait. they all also set the following. they are not sure he's cape only of doing it. and one of the things we just found out a few hours ago is that donald trump announced he is live tweeting tonight's debate. so he may be overshadowing and stealing the show tonight before we even get. >> which is a crucial point. this is a man who bab banned the

word pivot. one of his close advisors came in and said you can't say the word pivot or he'll kick you out. >> from reince priebus who's here to the senate majority leader and trump has promised them himself. i get it. i'm the nominee. i'll be responsible. i understand this is not just about me. i can affect house and senate careers. i can affect the image of the party for decades to come. repeatedly he's told them. just moments ago at the campaign rally in arizona he's blaming hillary clinton for the fact he didn't close the tax loopholes he took advantage of when he filed no taxes so he's still going down the rabbit hole. he's donald trump and anyone who expects him to change is not paying attention to the election. and tonight is critical for mike pence but sunday night for donald trump.

when tough high grouped, what do we need to epikeep this? it is a very different psychology and tactics where you can focus solely on your --. take game of thrones. they are the high ground. they have the catapults. they are throwing the rocks down at the guys trying to get up the hill. that is a tremendous advantage. >> key point is these guys can't make mistakes. but that is a big piece for both of them. >> right. that you have to walk out of tonight without making misics that. >> no mistakes. >> what about the live tweeting tonight though, mark? interesting. you have mike pence trying do a clean out and show a softer side and then here you have donald trump live tweeting. >> he's already stealing the spotlight. tonight we talk about the t two screen experience. you will be on cnn.com and watching on cnn and looking at it on twitter and quite frankly you will probably be looking at

twitter more than your screen at times. so not only has donald trump stole the spotlight tonight but he stole the spotlight on the day he announced him as his nominee. and key rollouts. hillary clinton stood in the back and gave the stage to tim kaine. and he did a magnificent job. and donald trump was out in the wings and then when mike pence -- if you are mike pence, personally i would be very mad. >> and now you have -- you talk about the rally today. he also talked about bill clinton talk about obamacare today. and clinton said it was one of the craziest things in the wo d world. certainly not fun for hillary clinton but donald trump's response was oh bill clinton must have gone through hell -- >> instead of staying on the policy that i told you so the republican party before me has told you so.

and take the policy argument instead of taking it down the rabbit hole. but trump is trump. he's a street brawler. this is what he likes. he's also never done this before. we've given him grace saying he's going to learn. but we're 35 days out now. just one quick point on the twitter. i'm told they plan to have his team around him tonight as he does that. >> so he doesn't get to hold the twice? he get to dictate -- >> -- going for a snack or the bathroom, somebody follows him. >> and what are you hearing about his own preparation here? he's going watch tonight and see mike pence and his preparation which has been so different and so traditional and his performance will be very different in terms of substance and policy. >> totally different format too because he's now going to be taking questions from people in the audience and it will be difficult -- it will be the town hall which anderson cooper will co-modera co-moderate. donald trump. i don't expect him to do a lot of homework. he thinks what got him here is

going to get him there. so that is going to happen. >> no stand-ins -- >> not that we're hearing at this point. but donald trump is going to have to connect with the voters in the room which will then show he can connect with the vote owners the screen because it is the tv screen that is most important because that is where you are going to get the 60, 70, 80 million people watching. but you need to be able to connect with people in the room. donald trump in past town halls has done okay but it hasn't been a great fit for him. >> the best estimation may actually be to watch mike pence tonight. -- >> and not tweet. ju watch. >> stay away from twitter. right. my guess is pence is going to be doing a good job. he's going to be presideosecuto. and i think we're going to see a debate tonight between two grown ups who, you know, are sort of

worthy of that stage in essence sense. >> as we get ready for the have theal candidavice presidential candidates to debate we're going hear from their wives. >> we're here with senator tim kaine's whief anne holton. how has senator keane been preparing for tonight. >> he's been working hard and, you know, doing the things you would think he's doing. but mainly i'm trying to get him to relax. be pumped up. >> how does he like to relax? >> music. he loves to play, sing. >> plays the harm kah? anything else? >> he's been teaching himself how to play an auto harp but you

cult sea couldn't say he plays it yet. >> in terms of the debate itself what has he been getting ready for? >> you know, i'm really not privy to it. i've been out on the campaign trail and he's been huddled up with his debate team. so i couldn't tell you if i tried. >> reporter: the country is about to get to know senator keane in an ichb bigger way tonight. what is one thing you hope they learn about him tonight. >> i think they will learn he and i are both passionate supports are of of secretary clinton's. she's the only person in this race who's immediately qualified to be president. and i think you will hear how strongly he feels about that and that he's ready to be a strong man supporting a strong woman at the top of the ticket. >> interesting. a strong man supporting a strong woman. she would be the first woman president obviously. what do you think about him working for her?

>> yeah that is kind of one of the exciting things about this race for him and me both. as he say s he's had strong women, including myself thank you very much, supporting him throughout his many political roles and o now as the chance do turnaround. and he relishes the opportunity to be in the supportive role. >> -- between secretary and donald trump? >> i think everybody in the nation was watching it. as they should. it was an important milestone in the campaign. >> has that raised any stakes for the pressure for him? to keep this momentum moving? >> i think there is a little competitive spirit between him and hillary, you know. he wrote -- communicated with her soon after the debate telling her how well she thought she had done and saying you raised the bar for me and yeah i think he's trying to help meet that bar. >> has she offered any advice? >> be yourself. >> who is that yourself? >> tim is a really authentic guy who's upbeat on america. this optimism is very deep in

his soul and feels that we really are the stronger together thing is not just a motto. it really is a fundamental philosophy and approach to life. >> anne holton. thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. >> back the you guys. >> thank you very much. we're going to be speaking to mike pence's wife karen coming up as well. i think that is mike pence walking in right now. coming in. this is going to be a moment that everyone is going to remember, this moment when these two vice presidential candidates go face to face. >> and a moment that his aides really have been saying explicitly he's been preparing for since the call that he got from donald trump saying that he's going to be the running mate. >> it is going to be a moment where they will both have an opportunity to really make the case for the presidential nominees. >> right. there is no question about that. and i thought that was one of the interesting things that anne holton, the wife of tim kaine just told our jeff zeleny, that

that is the case they are going to make. but specifically he's going to focus on the fact that she's a strong woman and he's okay with that being her number 2 or her deputy. >> the data debate is only an hour away. our special coverage continues with a special ac 360. and welcome. we are about an hour away from seeing the vice presidential candidate step up on that stage in longwood university in virginia. welcome to our viewers in the united states and watching around the world. i'm anderson cooper on this debate night in america. tonight voters are getting their only chance to compare tim kaine and mike pence side by side to see if they are prepared to step into the role of president if necessary. they may wind up spending more time about hillary clinton and donald trump than themselves. their most important and

difficult challenge, promote and defend their running mates. lit set the stage for the second debate between donald trump and hillary clinton on sunday night. with hillary clinton gaining momentum and trump on the defensive after their first face-off last week. here is wolf blitzer with more on what to expect tonight. >> anderson, tim kaine won a coin toss so he'll get the first question tonight. the viewers will see senator keane on the left. governor pence on the right. they will be seated this time at a table. there aren't any lecturns this time so the candidates will be closer to one another. they will also be closer to the moderator of cbs news. that proximity could effect the tone of the debate. jake tapper, we're getting a little preview of what's to come, aren't we? >> reporter: that's right, wolf. spoiler alert. the republican national committee apparently accidentally posted a blog in which they declared that mike pence w